Why didn't the Saturn had a proper Sonic game? Were they stupid?
Sonic was never good. Bombed in Japan deservedly.
Sonic wouldn’t have shifted the needle at all. Sonic 3 barely sold compared to the first two. Sonic Adventure didn’t exactly sell the Dreamcast either.>I don’t care to play the third Sonic game on the hardware I already own>whoa! I’d better buy a $400 console to play more Sonic!
>>12708805>sewing analogy
>Were they stupid?Yes
the proper question to ask is why sega ever thought sonic was their mario that they had to shoehorn into everything. little blue faggot could never hold a candle
>>12708812Would you have preferred a food analogy instead?
>>12708812>sewing“moving the needle” refers to a needle in a gauge>>12708850I hope they got aired for this
>>12708714Before SA Sonic was seen as yesterdays game, it would be like waiting for the PS3 and then going "dude lets bring back wipeout" and then everyone going huh.SA came back and everyone was like actually Sonic is cool again, would that have worked with a 2D sonic with Rayman graphics on Saturn, not in 1996 but I think later if the Saturn was more popular.>>12708805People got confused with Saturn advertising, it made people think they should wait for Saturn instead of getting more games.>>12708850Release Mario 64 then just let the console die until Zelda, nice plan.
>>12708714Sonic was seen as STI's responsibility, but all the talented people left STI after Sonic3&K.
Reminder that in Japan, Nights sold more than every Sonic game.
>>12708714It didn't have one because the dev team crucially wasted a year and a half of development on 32x. Tom Kalinske initially wasn't going to sell Saturn till 32x bombed. The original plans were for North America to get 32x and for Japan to get Saturn. Tom didn't want to move on because he had accumulated an excessive amount of unsold Genesis stock and didn't want to press the liquidate button because it would kill an entire multiple years worth of profit. He let it build up and essentially all of 1993 and 1994's Genesis profits were cancelled due to having to buy Genesis stock back. That's what happens when you're not careful with the deals you sign with retailers. Hence why Amiibos always would have such stock shortages. If you're not careful in north america, retail will rape you. The blame doesn't solely rest with Tom either, Nakayama wanted to rush the Genesis to hit multiple millions of sold units every fiscal year. Tom was just following orders, though very riskily. Michael Katz was more safe about it and would go slower. Nakayama didn't like it and had him subsequently replaced. The cancellation of Sonic Xtreme was more of a bad symptom of Sega chasing short term gains over strategic long term profit. Even if it had come out and was good, it would more have likely pushed maybe 8-11 million more Saturn's if it was hitting the highs of Super Mario 64. But again, Sega wasted very valuable time dev'ing it on 32x instead of Saturn. Xtreme and SM64 started development around the same time but only one of them stuck to the same base hardware throughout most of the development.
>>12708812Dumbass
>>12708727fpwp
>>12708714>Why didn't the Saturn had a proper Sonic game?Yuji Naka's arrogance and the Sega of Japan vs. Sega of America internal back-and-forth.>Were they stupid?Well, its Sega, so...
In all honesty I think they were sick of him and wanted to try another mascot for the new console, hence NiGHTs
>>12708812Lmao retard
>>12712210Nothing to do with arrogance. Naka moved back to Japan so he wasn't able to work with the STI team anymore.
>>12708714It had Sonic 3D Blast, doesn't that count?
>>12708714yes.
>>12710035>Tom didn't want to move on because he had accumulated an excessive amount of unsold Genesis stockyeah but part of the truth is that he accumulated that stock because sega of japan demanded they reach 80% market saturation which was simply impossible, but Japan just told them "well you better hustle more". being a subsidiary, they had no way to say no to Japan forcing them to buy millions of Genesis consoles.
>>12709271Would Sonic have been saved in Japan if they sticked to that bizarre dream setting where Eggman is a bee and a penultimate villain with Nightmare 13?
Even if there was a proper 3D Sonic game for the Saturn it just wouldn't have done anything for the system in the west. It got shit on hard by the Playstation and didnt have anywhere near the amount of variety and killer apps, even the N64 with its considerably smaller library at least had the same handful of great games people would always point to and prop up. Not that the Saturn doesn't have fun games on it, but it just didn't have the same widespread appeal and without constant Tomb Raiders and Resident Evils, people just were indifferent.
>>12712740And throwing a fit over Americans using his engine to make the game he doesn't wants to make?
>>12715086He did want to make it but he didn't live near STI anymore so he couldn't participate.
>>12708714The original plan was that STI would handle the proper Saturn Sonic game because the Japs were all "fuck you we're not making more Sonic, let us make NiGHTs or we riot"Meanwhile Traveller's Tales would make 3D Blast as a last hurrah for the GenesisProblem was STI was horribly inept and X-treme ended up crashing and burning, so 3D Blast got a quick and dirty Saturn port and Traveller's Tales had to take an F1 racer prototype game and make Sonic R in six months
>>12708812
>>12715126>>12708714Sega had three backup plans, each doing their own thingSega Europe / SoA commissioned Sonic 3D Blast for the Megadrive with DKC-like graphics as a late gen game, and a Saturn version as a "just in case" thing. A racing game by TT was repurposed with feedback from Sonic level designer (ousted by Naka over office politics, which did NOT help) to be Sonic R.Ports of Mega Drive games to the Saturn were considered as just in case Saturn library fillers, they begun with the Mickey games, but SoA stalled them because of Bernie Stolar sabotage. That's how a perfectly serviceable Sonic CD is PC exclusive in 1996 and how Sonic 3 & Knuckles was initially PC-exclusive in late 96. Normally these (or a Sonic Jam like collection) would be released early in the console's lifespan like with the DreamCast's MD ports or the myriads of SNES>PS1 ports of JRPGs to capitalize on the franchise momentum.Sega of Japan had Sonic the Fighters ready in mid 96 and out for Arcades and had a demo of the Saturn port that summer for E3/CES but somehow SoA sabotage held it back and it never released.Yuji Naka and Team Sonic were also working on 3D games to revitalize the Saturn (and still did mid 97 only for SoA to send them out with no marketing and limited print runs or even cancel them just before release so that they'll fail either way) but struggled more than intended with 3D. Naka arrogantly wanted to have Sonic 3D out in late 97 (so SoJ relied on SoA's lies) but struggled with 3D so a tech demo of the engine was bundled with Sonic Jam, a collection that would be sabotaged by SoA but too high profile to. They finished it as Sonic Adventure, which was delayed one year in NA over Bernie Stolar sabotaging Dreamcast's launch. Sonic Team contributed minigames for Sonic 3D Blast Saturn.SoA... wow.
>>12708850Wait is Mario, of all people, Jewish?
>>12716558SoA's pitches were many, overly focused on X32 then PC, rife with incompetence and nepotism and falsified progress updates. The X32 projects was an auto demo with no actual code and another Bug!-like, an israeli was involved, they wasted time trying to port that trash to Saturn. They wasted further time developing a pc game without doing a hello world saturn port once for months then it runs at 1fps and they panic but never release the PC version either way. Another concept has a different 3d game with different minigames, they never finish the first (but still showcase the unplayable prototype graphics in trade shows) but the second one is more advanced. They approach the sonic 3d blast producers mid october 96 perhaps expecting the backup plan to be delayed to incorporate those minigames and get rejected, but never get to reuse the work because SoJ caught on the PC division was wasting resources on PC exclusives and stop greenlighting their stuff starting 97.One of these projects was very understaffed and they worked the staff to near death literally so it was basically cancelled early 96. Which is weird but not that weird considering Bernie Stolar back at the Atari Jaguar was infamous for denying payment for months for devs of crucial software.SoJ trusted and believed and only realized spring 96. Two pitches were in a rudimentary enough shape to release in some way as minigames but SoA canned them early 97.Aspect, the Sonic Game Gear devs, stopped Sonic games after a rushed Sonic Blast, and were moved to the Tempo franchise, a X32 game then followed by a Saturn only sequel that while gorgeous 2d pixel art was weird and unhinged and SoA was doing their best rejecting anything. So SoJ didn't have that backup, and Yuji Naka chasing out Yasuhara (and shortly after Adventure, Ohshima) didn't help things.Nights Christmas with Sonic was another backup plan by SoJ/Sonic Team but wasted precious time.
>>12716578Sega of America was the main party to blame. Not only did they so horribly mismanage their resources and crash and burn their projects, they were also an active hindrance as a publisher of the console or actual games.Sonic CD or Chaotic or Fighters had no reason not to be ported to the Saturn early on considering their lack of accessibility, they could have even recouped some of their money, Sega wasn't in a position to pick and choose then, and a Sonic cameo in nights plus a compilation in 97 wasn't going to cut it.
>>12716558I feel like Sonic CD PC port was aimed at Americans who missed out on buying a Sega CD. That's why it has the American soundtrack even in the Japanese version of the game.Though it's still stupid why didn't Saturn get CD (despite its FMVs being included in Jam), as well as Nipples Chaotix, the Fighters and SegaSonic.
>>12708727It's nothing new that Japs have shit taste.
>>12716598>SegaSonicThat one is a whole can of worms and textbook SoA incompetence. Its English localization was finished but SoA insisted it had to use the TV cartoon graphics, SoJ obliged and even had multiple copies of the assets so they could use the name Eggman or Robotnick in English, and even if they didn't have money to dub its voice acting they could just mute it.Then SoA does a location test and decides the game is a failure. Then SoA and SoE STILL go ahead with the international release but they use the Japanese version, which has all assets needed for English and only need a program chip change but they don't do it.Between that and Puyo Puyo and Wonder Boy in Monster Land it beggars belief how SoJ didn't just start exploring their options with other publishers or use one of their money splurges to establish a no-bullshit localization operation that answers directly to SoJ.
