>broken anti-aliasing, no mipmapping, no shaders, pathetically low VRAM and couldn't do 480p and had horrible blurry video quality and texturesWhy do some believe the PS2 was more powerful than the Gamecube and Dreamcast? Not only did it have the worst looking and worst performing games of its generation, it also lacked key hardware features that even the N64 had. Major figures in the industry like Mikami and Itagaki even shat on it for how weak and difficult it was to work on the system.
>>12725636>hurr hurr specs!Who the fuck cares? Hardware fans are the biggest retards of retro gaming>but my saturn transperency>but the snes is 22 mhz or whatever!>but the ps1 has texture warp and loading times!>but the n64 has no storageYes and none of that matters because despite the limitations they all have great games.And friendly reminder a game with no color in outdated hardware absolutely destroyed the competition despite them having colors and better graphics, hardware means jackshit
>>12725636>Still runs games incredibly well without needing any of that shitThe soul of the Emotion Engine just made it happen.
https://blogstation2.wordpress.com/tag/evolution/ most powerfull console of it's generation>Jason Rubin: Yes, I do think that there are advantages to the hardware setup of the PS2. The multiprocessor setup of the system allows the PS2 to do so many things at the same time (if programmed well) that the hardware is actually far more powerful than its spec. They say the Xbox is going to be either 600mhz or 1000mhz. The PS2 is only 300mhz. But if you can have your background engine running in 10% CPU and 50% VU1 time, then you have far more power.>And yes, of course there will be more powerful systems in the future. That is how technology works. But the Xbox may not be that system>Charles: The PS2 math capabilities are like Intel’s SSE… but on steroids>To put it simply, I don’t think anyone has ever overstated the complexity of programming for the PS2. But, on the other hand, the Xbox libraries won’t allow you anywhere near the actual hardware, so there is little room for optimisation. Plus, the Xbox doesn’t have the high speed vector units of the PS2, which may be why even the best Xbox games run at 30Hz.>I seriously doubt we would have been able to make Ratchet and Clank run at 60Hz on the Xbox without drastically reducing the number of moving objects.>It’s very difficult to put a number on how far we’ve pushed the PS2 at this point. If I had to estimate, I’d say Ratchet and Clank may use about 50% of the PS2’s maximum potential
https://x.com/dark1x/status/1743280922659635688?lang=fr>I actually went quickly through my library of PS2 games and extracted games are that are a solid 60 fps. The actual number of 60 fps games is MUCH higher (over 60% of the library, from what I've determined in the past).
ps2 is the most powerful gaming machine ever created
>>12725686>ps2 is the most powerful retro gaming console ever createdunironically
>>12725636It was way better than GameCube No contest
>>12725654>the snes is 22 mhz or whateverThat would have been fucking insane fast
>>12725670>If I had to estimate, I’d say Ratchet and Clank may use about 50% of the PS2’s maximum potentialWHat game uses 100% of that??
>>12725915ps2 maximum potential was almost limitless
>>12725636>lolcow console warring spam thread>againobese loser hands created this thread>>12725915last gran turismo game does. that is spectacular.
As a kid I saw the name Emotion Engine and thought it was alive like an A.I. or something, or like Sony had trapped the soul of some magical being inside a PS2...
>>12725636It had games.
>>12725654>>12725721What's most funny to me when specfags try to push the numbers as if it's what actually made the consoles better ir worse is that they are always discussing single-digit MHz when today's hardware like Switch and PS5 we're talking GHz. So basically according to them we should just throw all retro into the trash and only play modern, faster clock CPU!!
>>12725654Pokémon definitely outsold plenty of games, but we aren't going to act like it's a good RPG are we?
>>12726017I actually have to admit I hate Pokémon not because of the game but because of the fans and how mainstream it is.But, if I had to judge it isolated from the popular phenomenon, and just as a game... nah I'd have to admit it's a pretty clever monster RPG.
>>12725636Only the games matter shut the fuck up. Jannies should always trash threads talking about fucking consoles.
>>12726010Golems obsessed with console specs don't understand that specs are only a means to an end. Good games are good games regardless of hardware, and the best games push the hardware to its limits. Limitation drives creativity, and prevents bloat.>Oh, but THIS canvas was woven from the best linen at the time!The Mona Lisa was painted on a fucking plank of wood. Specs are the crutch of losers.
>>12725670>literal Sony employee working on PS2-exclusive game says PS2 is da bestest>some retard cites this as unbiased testimony 25 years laterThere's not a single PS2 game that comes anywhere close to the top-end Xbox games graphically. Dead or Alive 3 wouldn't be possible on PS2 (even the port of DOA2 from the Dreamcast had downgrades). Splinter Cell had to be massively cut back to work on PS2. And so on, and so on.
>>12726076Shadow of the Colossus could never work on XboxSilent hill 2 and 4 ported to Xbox (with downgrade) but not 3Because Xbox couldn't handle Silent Hill 3
>>12726017It's literally one of the best most complex and open rpgs, you can either play pvp or replay it with different parties numerous times, yes its a pretty fucking great rpg
>>12725915>>12725945This is some fucking DBZ bullshit
>>12725636>>broken anti-aliasing, no mipmapping, no shaders, pathetically low VRAM and couldn't do 480p and had horrible blurry video quality and texturesMeanwhile, it has a large amount of games running at 60 FPS, the best looking racing game of the generation at a solid 60 frames per second (GT 4), the most technically impressive games of the generation (SotC) and sold 160m units and 1.5 billion games.How did they do this on such a "weak" machine.
>>12725636better memory throughput means it can do more with its hypothetically lower specs. throughput matters quite a lot.
PS2 is the last console with dedicated audio synthesizer hardware. So many iconic tracks are being played by the PS2 and not just an mp3 file.
>>12726309Can you post an example?I feel like after 4th gen, consoles lost their trademark song.Like you can differentiate the Master System from the NES, or the Mega Drive from Super NES, but I can't say "this sounds like Ps1" or "this sounds like Saturn". n64 being an exception, but everything after that... can anyone tell difference in sound between GC, PS2 and Xbox? If there's any actually identifiable differences I'd like to listen
>>12726315Silent hill 2s entire soundtrack is produced by the ps2
>>12726309Yep, it was a good one too.
The PS2 excelled at a few graphical effects, something to do with particles or transparency iirc. It had a weird GPU which was usually suboptimal but really good at a few things. Otherwise it was clearly more powerful than the Dreamcast, debatably more powerful than the cube.
>>12726445I rarely weight consoles based on individual specs when in reality it was what they could do in tandem that mattered and how much performance developers could squeeze out of a machine. As far as raw power: 1. Xbox 2. Ps2 3. GamecubeAs far as performance to power ratio: 1. Gamecube 2. Xbox 3. PS2
>>12726471PS2 is as powerful as Xbox, roughly speaking, and Nintendo is half as powerful as either. Xbox won't let you get at the hardware directly, you have to use library functions for everything. So it's weaker than PS2 which is harder to program but which has a full dev kit complete with assembler and docs for each chip.
PS2 is an SGI, that's the thing, it's a micro-Indy with a monster couple of co-processors. SGI was famous for including super high performance features which only worked with their C compiler, or assembly. N64 also had SGI tech but it wasn't as good and worked like the Xbox through library functions and not full custom like with PS2. PS2 had a shitty dev kit which was more suitable for making dev kits than games actually, it's why it took even Sony a year or two to really nail PS2 games.It could be fine today. It's all you need.
>>12726315games that needed to constantly stream game data would be likely candidates, as they would load the sample engine and run it in the background.games that didn't were probably the ones that just played an audio stream back.
>>12725636>Why do some believe the PS2 was more powerful than the Gamecube and Dreamcast? Dreamcast aside, no one ACTUALLY believes the PS2 was more powerful than the GameCube and Xbox. It's just a "Sega System"-tier shitpost pushed by one or two delusional fanboys.
>>12726584>ACTUALLY believes the PS2 was more powerful than the GameCube and XboxImo it's obviously more powerful than Gamecube but was differently capable than Xbox. To describe what the PS2 could do well, it has the best looking pixels.
>>12725636>cope>seethe>dilate
>>12725636>anti-aliasingDoesn't correlate to power.>no mipmappingDoesn't matter because the VRAM bandwidth is insane.>no shadersWrite your own shader pipeline.>pathetically low VRAMDoesn't matter because the main RAM -> VRAM bandwidth is almost equal to Gamecube's VRAM bandwidth.>horrible blurry video qualityYou love moviegames?>texturesPS2 often has sharper textures thanks to lack of hardware mipmapping.>couldn't do 480pLiterally the only valid point here. >worst lookingThat'd be dreamslop.>worst performingPS2 had the highest number of 60 fps games. The poor performing games were all multiports because they weren't coded properly enough to utilize Emotion Engine's multithreading capability and adhere to its in-order execution architecture.
>>12725664based af
>>12725654>rightfully calls out hardwarefaggotry autism>proceeds to use a jeet-coded salesfaggotry argument about pokemon being good because it sold a billion copies
>>12726665>>couldn't do 480p>Literally the only valid point here.Several PS2 games support progressive scan, especially the best looking ones.But I still play on a CRT TV and also it use it my PS3 and Xbox 360.GUN is one of my favorite games, and playing it on the PS2 or Xbox 360 makes no difference when using an old 480i TV. The only noticiable stuff of course is the superior graphics quality, framerate and antialiasing.Most people didn't play on 480p TVs back then since they costed signicantly more. So, that 480p advantage was a placebo back then.
>>12726778Sales >>>> SpecsEvery single time
>>12725682>The actual number of 60 fps games is MUCH higher (over 60% of the library, from what I've determined in the past).how many of those can be eliminated as 2d or small scale games?
>>12726309>PS2 is the last console with dedicated audio synthesizer hardware.That to me is fucking insane! I could've sworn that sequenced music was dead by the 6th gen. Turns out MK:DD also has some sequenced music too. (Which I only found out after I did some ROM corruptions KEK.)https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=m_9YJt1v5LE
>>12725636>broken anti-aliasing,yeah, that's a legitimate hardware bug.>no mipmapping,had enough fillrate that it didn't matter>no shaders,had enough fillrate and a co-processor to do it in software>pathetically low VRAMall the vram in the ps2 was basically L1 cache. it ran 10x faster than the competition.>and couldn't do 480pplenty of games could do 480p, it just required competent devs.>and had horrible blurry video quality and texturesso did the n64 but that's somehow the best console ever made, isn't it?
>>12725915>WHat game uses 100% of that??I'm gonna guess God of War, Gran Turismo, and whatever was the last Final Fantasy on it.
>>12727850>>broken anti-aliasing,>yeah, that's a legitimate hardware bug.i thought that was an SDK bug. or so i understood from df retro analyses.to give an example, ridge racer 5 (launch game) has broken antialiasing but later tekken games (same dev) had proper antialiasing.
>>12727854How GoW2 managed to be a 60fps game I still don't know.
>>12726309What about the Wii? Or did it just used its CPU for sequenced music?
>>12725636>>12725636>the PS2 was more powerful than the Gamecubeit just crushed tendies and due to their cults targeting of character defects here we are readig them still seething and trying to rewrite history like the cult of eternal whining pedo liars they are.
>>12728407>What about the Wiithe worst console that ever sold in volume, a curse to gaming and the world pure gimmick
Here is how broken the PS2 is
