I realized that Pokémon had much better gameplay, more build variety, and a much better progression system than Dragon Quest.
>I realized that Pokémon had much better gameplay
>>12727241>send your water pokemon against my fire pokemon who's at like +4 in all stats>get fucked in a single non-STAB moveWhat now?
>>12727135it really does have one of the best rulesets out there, but the enemy ai doesn't know how to use it and most of the games are too easy.
>>12727135Pokemon is loosely balanced around PvP so it makes sense. Dragon Quest isn't. That's not a flaw with Dragon Quest though, the same thing is going to be true with FF or SMT as well. You simply don't balance a PvE game the same way you balance a PvP game. It wouldn't make sense. >>12727260True. I think it's on purpose though. I mean the fact that stuff like the battle frontier in Emerald exists is proof they could make things more challenging if they wanted. They just don't.
>>12727135Anyone who's first JRPG was Pokémon will realize as soon as they try playing their first "real" JRPG that Pokémon might actually be the best version of the JRPG formulaAnyone who played JRPGs before playing Pokémon also understands this but will usually deny it>>12727260Emerald's battle frontier and most of Colosseum and XD probably have the challenge you're looking for.Also, friends.
>>12727265>Anyone who's first JRPG was Pokémon will realize as soon as they try playing their first "real" JRPG that Pokémon might actually be the best version of the JRPG formulais this the cope pokefags tell themselves to justify buying worse rehashes than CoD?
>>12727263The Battle Frontier's main challenge comes from the stricter rules and how you don't have a bag to spam healing items nonstop, not so much the AI.
>>12727269This is /vr/ bud so I'm not talking about any games beyond the first 3 gensModern Pokémon games, specifically starting with the 3DS games, are indefensible>>12727271That's true for only about the first two or three sets of battles for each facility, all before you challenge the brain for a silver symbol; beyond that, the ai starts taking no prisoners, specifically in the Tower and Factory
>>12727275I consider Gen4 to be an extension of Gen3. Almost the same engine, almost the same format, the only difference being the P/S Split. Things don't start getting radically different until Gen5.
>>12727263I don't like dq dungeon design>cast 3 fire spells>no magic point to cast more
>>12727275>Modern Pokémon games, specifically starting with the 3DS games, are indefensiblexy were a cakewalk but sun and moon were really good games. usum had the best single player campaign in the series in terms of gameplay
>>12727276I can catch way more legendaries in dpp than rse
>>12727275I enjoyed Legends Arceus on my non retro modchipped Switch (I didn't buy the game).
>>12727276>Almost the same engine, almost the same format, the only difference being the P/S SplitThose things all add up amigoP/S is a big one, I can see why people prefer it but for me it just wasn't a clean enough transition to make me forget about RSE. Like okay special attacking ghost types can finally use shadow ball but also now here's poor special attacking sceptile who's signature STAB move is now physical. Wtf.A lot of the new items, pokemon, and moves throw off the balance imo. RSE might not have been perfect but it was so un-power crept that there were a lot of possibilities.
>>12727284That's your point of contention? Jesus.
>>12727241Speed alone means typing are irrelevant.Plus, if you do the sword/dragon dance setup 2/3 times on a mon that is weak to you, you can sweep most rom hack ai regardless of typing.
>>12727135Correct, Pokemon has a lot more complexity than a lot of jrpgs that give you like 6 pre-made characters for the whole game and call it a day>>12727241That's Fire Emblem not Pokemon
>>12727280I love gen 7 but it's a shame it's impossible to replay due to all the unskippable cutscenes, but playing SuMo on release was a really enjoyable experience
>>12727280>>12727703Sorry but everything about the alola games are just so off-putting to meI could only play Sun for about an hour, it felt like I was playing a Yokai Watch Cocomelon gameDont even get me started on z moves
>>12727280>usum>gameplayYeah, about that.
I've only ever played Fire Red and Emerald.It felt so inferior to RPGs being released on consoles, Chrono Trigger from two generations ago felt miles ahead of Pokemon. Even if I were to compare with other GBA titles, I'd much rather be playing Golden Sun.Sometimes I wonder if I should give it another shot and try a modern game, then I see Youtubers commenting that the GBA era was indeed one of the best Pokemon eras and I'm like, that garbage was the good one?
>>12727791>games with fixed party members >better than pokemonLol, snesbabby moment
>>12727791Chrono Trigger is a game that's good in spite of its gameplay genre. If it were made today, it wouldn't be a turn-based/ATB RPG like it is on the SNES; it would probably be an action RPG like Kingdom Hearts or FFXV/XVI/VIIRPokemon, on the other hand, is good because of its gameplay genre, innovates on it, and makes it genuinely interesting
>>12727767yokai watch is kino, especially the 1st and 4th ones>>12727785nice reddit zinger>>12727791>TriggerNigger>Golden Fucking Sun, the worst game I ever played in my lifepost your 3x3 so I know exactly what to never ever touch in my life
>>12727839>yokai watch is kinoThe gameplay suck. Combat is mostly automated and the only good thing is the suburban atmosphere. Level design and dungeons ar ebelow pokemon red. The constant cutscnes don't help.>nice reddit zingerThe game is 2/3 cutscenes and hand holding that never lets go. Caves and routes are linear garbage and the game looks like garbage.They also removed hm's, to make the game even more easy.
>Pokemon clone>does everything better>except the fucking combatEvery Single Time
>>12727849It is amazing how annoying the combat is thanks to those stupid minigames.
>>12727265RBY mechanics really are s tier. An eight-year-old can beat the game after a false start or two, and my 145 iq ass can mostly perceive the skill ceiling even if I'm too lazy to get up there.
>>1272783615, 16 and 7R have nothing in common. 7R is a real video game.
>>12727135people are weird in that they don't like giving a series like pokemon any credit for the stuff it actually does well because of aesthetics or how lazy and unambitious the series became. Its combat system was always pretty good but the games don't really ask much from the players outside of some postgame facilities. There's also the rental dick buster that relies on pure skill, foresight, and probability management
>>12727241I don't care for pokemon but rock-paper-scissors gameplay is one of the perfect frameworks for a game.It's when that kid starts inventing new choices like "gun" and "forcefield" that the game starts to become annoying.
I don't believe you guys, this is a troll.I played Pokemon gen 1 four years before playing any other RPG. Heck, I had beaten gen-2 before playing a real RPG. JRPGs are already easy, but Pokemon is toddler stuff. Gameplay is the single worst aspect of them. I've replayed pokemon RGBY twice this century, and enjoyed it only for the nostalgia. Even slightly underleveled it's piss-easy.There is no depth to building or upgrading your pokemon; just have counters on your team for what's coming ahead. And if you're a shitter, just come in overleveled or have one or two super-overleveled mons.
>>12728019Vanilla Pokémon,sure. Any romhack fixes this by giving each type a counter move against your counter type. Enjoy getting earthquake'd if you brought a thunder type to a water gym.
>>12728019>t.overleveled his starter then complains the game is easy
>>12727265It's really not. Even very normie JRPGs like Final Fantasy X have more strategizing in them. Pokemon is designed as an introduction to the genre for 11 year olds its priority is being accessible. I'm aware there's depth when played competitively but how many people are playing competitive pokemon for this generalization to make sense. Why is /vr/ so drawn to making totalizing statements like this?>>12727275Early pokemon is still easy, its just not so piss easy that you'll never fire a neuron. Most of my fun in them is juggling training the different mons, and being able to kind of blitz through them with some light strategy here and there. Its more like a comfort game, its like the tomato soup of JRPGs>>12728019There are some cool moves in gen 3 like Torment (Stops successive uses of moves) that offer slightly more strategy. I also like messing with status effects
>>12727697>>12727808>Correct, Pokemon has a lot more complexity than a lot of jrpgs that give you like 6 pre-made characters for the whole game and call it a dayYou think throwing in hundreds of characters based on like 10 rock paper scissors archetypes is inherently more complex than making tightly designed games with some fixed characters in mind? That's almost totally irrelevant to how complicated the game mechanics could be.
>>12728047>Final Fantasy X have more strategizing in them10 doesn't have any strategizing.>depth when played competitivelyRomhacks.>>12728071> rock paper scissorsPokemon can learn/be taught moves to counter the counter type,especially with items or abilities.
>>12728076>10 doesn't have any strategizing.Yeah it does, how far did you get in that game. It certainly has more strategy than pokemon >romhacksYou might as well say play a different game. Romhacks were not designed by the same devs and they aren't the same games
>>12728086>Yeah it does, how far did you get in that game. It certainly has more strategy than pokemonBeat the game multiple times, not a campaign encounter requires more than use your best attack using correct character. Post game/optional stuff is meaningless. You have people beating ff10 with attack only.>You might as well say play a different gameDrayano hack and difficulty hacks are literally the same game but the enemies have a full set of teams and the enemies have decent moves.Romhack authors didn't invent new moves,they just shuffled them to make the enemy teams more harder.
>>12728071the complexity in pokemon is due to simultaneous turns and the priority system, not type effectiveness
>>12728103>priority systemMost people here have no idea the system even existed.
Most of this thread is silly. Multiple things can be true at once. The combat can be deep and complex while the games are also easy as hell to the point where it really doesn't matter. They save that shit for pvp or the stadium games
>>12728117>Multiple things can be true at once.My npc brain finds that impossible.
You didn't really "beat" Pokémon unless you beat all the cups and modes on Stadium 1 and 2.
Just play Dragon Warrior Monsters, then you'll have the best of both.
>>12727791>Chrono Trigger from two generations ago felt miles ahead of PokemonThat's absolutely so absurdly backwards and lacking in judgement it's insane. CT is one of the most basic JRPGs that exist gameplay wise, it's absurdly simple despite what it does to appear otherwise, while Pokemon is one of the most advanced, in spite of how easy it seems by default.Dragon Quest sits in the middle, it's clearly generally deeper and more cleverly designed than CT, but doesn't have the truly advanced aspects of Pokemon that make that stand out at the highest end.
>>12728047>Even very normie JRPGs like Final Fantasy X have more strategizing in themFFX only gets 'strategic' when you impose super specific house rules on the game that force you to acquire and use items in specific ways to pass given fights. Normally you switch to whatever character has an effective attack, heal etc. and in the end it devolves into quick hit spam.
