So since the last thread died >>12745758I am looking for a full explanation of hos doom monsters actually work. Decino pretends to do a good job however his explanations are split over unrelated videos and my webm literally disproves his claims in https://youtu.be/mA4uV7VKqY0?t=100Look closely at my videodecino>monsters will never do a 180 away from the player.This looks like it is debunked in my webm since the monster does a 180 away from me and will do 2 x 90 turns away from me.Yes I understand this is because the stairs are to tall for the monster or something HOWEVER I like to see the complete explanation of how monsters work since the spinning monsters and monsters runnin away and all the quirks in doom are so interesting to me (they make the game fresh and feel alive).Other things that I brute forced out of people on /vr/ is that DOOM has monster blocking lines.Did anyone do a complete explanation how DOOMs monsters actually work especially in the unpredictable behavior department? In contrast serious sams monsters are piss easy to program and dead simple they often literally take the shortest path to the player resulting in them even getting stuck on walls and unable to move if you position yourself in a particular way.
Autism
>>12767469Yea LOL.More like I want to know the secret and I wounder why no game (maybe with the exception of halo) did implement monsters like these.it is strange the DOOM is so different even if you correct for the technical limitations of modern games(corpses vanish in modern games).Halo did shit loads of AI for the aliens however in the end halo has more of a military combat behavior unlike WTF that even was in DOOM.And it is so strange it wasWolfenstain -> Simplistic behavior(from what I remember)DOOM -> YOU ARE HEREAnd poof forever vanished! I do not think even duke or build engine games did have monsters like doom from what I recall(correct me if I am wrong) lit is simplistic walk into direction of player and shoot with pain and shooting animations. And this is so incredible I mean am I the only one who discovered that DOOM monsters are so fascinating and interesting to fight? Monster infighting is obvious however there are so many other mechanics making fighting these monsters (80% of the game) so interesting to this day.
probably a conflict of the enemy navAI with the BSPs I dunno. just look at the source bro
>>12767502>just look at the source broIs the equivalent of saying>Broh just translate machine code and look at the assembler code!
>>12767450>So since the last thread diedOh, hi. Welcome back. Yes I noticed you let it fall off the board and after I had spent so long trying to remember what map the video was recorded on.>This looks like it is debunked in my webm since the monster does a 180 away from meYou keep saying this but it's not true. At least, not technically correct.In your video the demon never does a 180 degree turn all in one movement. It always first briefly turns to one side. It typically walks towards you as far as it can, then turns back and to the side which I suppose would be a 135 degree turn. Then it hits the wall again and turns back, because now it's moved slightly away from you, it goes back to trying to close the gap between you and it.At one point in the video at around 0:35 you move in a way that puts you directly opposite it parallel to an axis at the same moment that it is running directly away from you. At this point its only choice is to keep running in the same direction, because it won't move left or right because that would take it further away on the perpendicular axis. So it just keeps going until it meets the far wall. This illustrates its extreme reluctance of making a 180 degree turn.
>>12767514if you can't read C, just ask chatgpt breh. you seem autistic enough to be able to read it, though, since you keep making this thread. however my opinion it just seems like the pinkie is hitting an impassable wall i.e it can't reach your point of space thus it dances around trying to find a way. when your point moves a little bit you can see (as mentioned in the previous thread) that he moves backwards opposite to you. if you moved, you know, into the room where he is, such a situation wouldnt be happening. now why this is happening is due to a problem with the map itself since mobs have a set height they can move unless they can fly like a caco. in fact i dont think this ever happened to me with a flying mob. the fact is that some mobs nav ai seems different to each other
>>12767450Get the source code in front of you with chatgpt.
https://www.doomworld.com/forum/topic/122794-source-code-monster-behavior-moving-around-objects/
>>12767626 (me)Sorry I was sure someone on Doomworld had written a long detailed explanation but that was the best one I could find... must be using the wrong search term...
This is the only way you can really get a true 180 direction reversal.The monster has to be in a corridor no wider than its own width, so it has no choice other than to turn around completely.If you watch carefully, it takes half a step backwards before beginning to turn around.If you want to reproduce this I noclipped through the demon at the start of E3M3, then trapped it behind me by turning noclipping back off, and also turned off targeting to stop it attacking. Also I gave myself a light amplification visor.Sorry it's not a perfect loop.
>>12767450>>monsters will never do a 180 away from the player.that's wrong, what monsters won't do is do a 180 turn away from their previous facing direction
>>12767538>Oh, hi. Welcome back. YesHello :)>what map the video was recorded on.That is a WAD named The Darkening Episode 2https://www.doomworld.com/idgames/levels/doom2/megawads/darken2I think it is perfect because it shows something the pumpkin man(decino) did say was impossible.>>12767725Cool theory however watch this.The monster should be going left and right by the stairs however sometimes it decides to go backwards explain this!Watch my OP video.Your example does not apply since it has room to do the left and right movement.Not only this there seams to be a tendency for the monster to want to go backwards. Yes I know that the reason it can not walk up to me is because of how the map is build the point is monster AI since I can swear that the monster going backwards away fro me was something I did see naturally in doom maps.>>12767657>Sorry The more I test on my own them ore obvious it becomes to me that pumpkin man is full of shit maybe he specializes in convincingly telling made up lies or something. I see his videos spammed all over the place and his explanation is so all over the place and clearly wrong if tested.I for one tested if monsters immediately shoot back if you hurt them. And for the zombie man it is WRONG! Even ignoring the pain state sometimes they decide to simply walk instead of shooting back. I did my own tests. >>12768216>that's wrong, what monsters won't do is do a 180 turnIrrelevant.1) monsters will walk away from you it is irrelevant if this is 2 times 90 turn or 180 turn. This is simply a fact. 2) The subject was about monsters walking away from you not >Hey guys do monsters do 180 turns in DOOM?3) This thread is about monster behavior and all monster behaviors.
>>12768832monsters in doom are in fact not sentient and have no concept of "running away". what you're seeing is them trying to go into an unreachable area until the random direction behavior makes it seem like they're turning away from you
>>12768972>monsters in doom are in fact not sentientNeither do grunts in halo however they do run away.> until the random direction behavior makes it seem like they're turning away from youmore info on this logic of the monsters.
>>12769007 // there is no direct path to the player, // so pick another direction. if (olddir!=DI_NODIR) { actor->movedir =olddir; if (P_TryWalk(actor)) return; } // randomly determine direction of search if (P_Random()&1) { for ( tdir=DI_EAST; tdir<=DI_SOUTHEAST; tdir++ ) { if (tdir!=turnaround) { actor->movedir =tdir; if ( P_TryWalk(actor) ) return; } } } else { for ( tdir=DI_SOUTHEAST; tdir != (DI_EAST-1); tdir-- ) { if (tdir!=turnaround) { actor->movedir =tdir; if ( P_TryWalk(actor) ) return; } } } if (turnaround != DI_NODIR) { actor->movedir =turnaround; if ( P_TryWalk(actor) ) return; } actor->movedir = DI_NODIR; // can not move}
>>12768894
>>12768972>monsters in doom are in fact not sentient and have no concept of "running away"They have no retreating behavior, no. However, if you give a monster (or anything else, really, assuming it has A_Chase frames) negative speed with DeHacked, it will 'advance' away from the player.
>>12769019This explains nothing unless you understand and analyse these functions. I know because I can program.There is a reason why before perma shitters of today people understood that a flowchart is far more important then raw code.
>>12767450Another thing I like to add are the monsters in Berserk.They are stupid and often kill themselves however their behavior is fun to play against and far more complicated then modern serious sam monsters who always behave the same. It is truly trivial to program a monsters to always run at the player in the shortest path and shoot the same way.When did we lose these beautifully retarded monsters and decide to be OK with boring 4 lines of code AI that are serious sam monsters?
>>12769859And yet a flowchart is worse than useless when actually *writing* code... makes you wonder...>Show me your flowcharts and conceal your tables, and I shall continue to be mystified. Show me your tables, and I won’t usually need your flowcharts; they’ll be obvious.-- some old geezer, probably...
>>12769859I didn't post the entire function because it's too long for a 4chan post, but you don't have to be John Carmack to get what DI_EAST is supposed to mean
>>12768832>That is a WAD named>The Darkening Episode 2Indeed I had worked it out already from the status bar, via the following linked thread.https://www.doomworld.com/forum/post/1821443>The monster should be going left and right by the stairs however sometimes it decides to go backwards explain this!The monster cannot just go left and right because going left immediately after going right constitutes a 180 degree reversal, which--as has been explained to you multiple times--the logic avoids unless it has no other choice. It only has two choices--to turn 90 degrees and run directly away from you, or turn 135 and run diagonally away and to the left.If this random choice chooses to turn 90 degrees and run directly away from you, and you move so you are standing to within 10 units of being directly opposite it, then the next time its step counter runs out and the logic has an opportunity to choose a new direction in which to move, it finds the direction in which it wants to move--directly towards you--is a 180 degree turn, and anything else--turning to one side or the other--takes it away out of this 10 unit width, so all it is allowed to do is keep running in the same direction until it meets the far wall.>Your example does not apply since it has room to do the left and right movement.That is true, apologies for muddying the waters, I just wanted to show the one case where a 180 degree reversal is allowed. Remember this means a 180 degree reversal from the previous direction in which it was moving--e.g. not allowed to move north when it was previously going south--not "not allowed to move north because the player/its target is south of it".>The more I test on my own them ore obvious it becomes to me that pumpkin man is full of shitI don't know if he's full of shit, but he is a plagiarist.>I for one tested if monsters immediately shoot back if you hurt them.I'll have to come back to this--the post has reached character limit.
>>12768832>I for one tested if monsters immediately shoot back if you hurt them. And for the zombie man it is WRONG! Even ignoring the pain state sometimes they decide to simply walk instead of shooting back. I did my own tests.Ok so getting back to this before it drops off the board again.There are two property flags that may be set on monsters: "just hit", and "just attacked". Just-hit is set when a monster gets shot. If set, the next time the monster gets to move--usually after it finishes its pain animation, and goes back to walking--it will shoot back.Just-attacked is set after the monster shoots at its target. Then on the next time it gets to move, it will definitely not shoot--the check for that is skipped, but the flag will be cleared. Thus a monster will not shoot "twice in a row".Now the thing is, the just-attacked flag is tested *before* just-hit, and *overrides* it. If the monster's just-attacked flag is set, the monster is guaranteed to take another step before attacking, even if its just-hit flag is set.So what I suspect happened is this. The zombie shot at you--hence its just-attacked flag was set--then you quickly returned fire, hitting it and putting it into pain state, before it got a chance to move, and clear the just-attacked flag. Thus, when its pain state ended, it walked around for a bit before attacking you again.BTW I haven't watched the videos you are talking about, and I won't--I don't like the fellow, I think he makes videos out of other people's research and passes it off as his own work--so I have no idea if they go into this.
>>12767450This gonna sound dumb but I recently got a Pentium pro s computer running windows 95, and I've installed doom and a bunch of other games on it of courseWhat's the best way to play doom on windows 95, manage my wads, etc
Final bump for OP to return and we find out if his questions have been answered.
>>12776732Fuck you.
>>12767450>This looks like it is debunked in my webm since the monster does a 180 away from me and will do 2 x 90 turns away from meExactly like the youtuber explained in his video... Fucking hell you are retarded as fuck.
>>12776746Haha. Feel free to get on your knees.I have a theory he will repost this thread when it archives, and I don't want to have to re-type all my responses.
>>12767450Dude just watch Decinos videos on the game. He has broken down virtually every mechanic and engine aspect of the game including monsters
>>12776757Anon, OP won't listen, we already gave him explanations in a previous thread, and linked videos, but he literally does not understand, he has a little ziploc bag of playground sand where part of his frontal lobe should be.It's still not too late for you, flee, leave this cursed thread!
