I just don't see how it could have ever been a fun game. You don't have any view angles, stuck to just one position.I just watched yet another recreation which seeks to complete this game and they all follow the same principles. Everything is a tech demo and not much else. Maybe this technology could have been reused for a different kind of game, a puzzle one like Kula World, but it just wouldn't ever work for Sonic.
sonic was always bad
>>12770049Every piece of footage I’ve seen was basically Bug, except Sonic sometimes goes through a scripted loop
Don't use shaders if you don't know what the fuck you're doing. Here have your (You), you won, loser.
It would have been fucking awful, canceling it was the right decision.
Sonic CD is fucking awful (besides the soundtrack)Yet, its some peoples favorite sonic game.This would have been the same
The game was cancelled for a reason. Its not like they had some unfinished masterpiece on their hands
Really is wild to me how little of importance sega put on making sure a mainline sonic title got put out on saturn.
>>12770080>Yet, its some peoples favorite sonic game.It's one of the few Sonic games where it feels like you're actually playing the game, so it's understandable. Sonic 1 is my favorite, though.
>>12770049I think it would've been worse than Sonic 06. It would've been the 9/11 of the Sonic franchise.
>>12770118Thats a crazy statement as I feel the absolute opposite.Sonic 1 and 2 feel like an actual game.Sonic CD level design is unfun to me and I literally just run right to exist the mess of stages whenever possible.I used to love exploring in 1/2, this game Im just trying to exit asap
>WHEN THE DROP HITShttps://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aD95SxjkzAUIts too good
>>12770049Sega should never have given the project to SoA but it still would have been nice to see how good/bad the completed game would have been.
>>12770049>game where you go fast>sonic is center of the screenevery fucking time
>>12770162Git gud.Sonic is only retro game for people who have sex.
>>12770049why does the game look like that
>>12770170they used a fish eye style for the in game cameraskateboard is rad and shiiet
>>12770170Looks gud to me.
>>12770174oh yeah makes sense he was talking about that instead lol. Looks like DOG SHIT
>>12770049It looks awful. It's funny how people villainize Sega for canceling this when any sane person would
>>12770049after SM64 and Crash Bandicoot giving a good spin on the platformer formula, yeah this would've been laughed at worldwide
>>12770230>sega trying every gimmick they can to make the new sonic game>meanwhile>sotn - a 2D platformer is a masterpiece and people love it>still loved to this daythey unironically just had to BEE themselves
Faggots will never convince me that it wouldn't have been fun. There are plenty of shit games that tried nothing new that ended up getting released. The only concession i will make, is that perhaps this concept would have worked better for a Wario game.
>>12770049They should have made the greatest 2D platformer instead. Imagine what you could do with sonic on the Saturn if you stuck to the formula. It might finally be good!
>>12770121Or rather, 9/11 would’ve been the Sonic Xtreme of America.
The reason why Sonic has not received a proper mainline title from Sonic Team in recent years is rooted in their genuine effort to craft a quality 3D Sonic experience. Unlike Western developers who often settle for flashy visuals and superficial gameplay, Japanese creators like Naka and his team prioritize the feel and depth of their games. They understand that a game must not only look good but also play well, offering substantial fun and a sense of immersion. This ethos is fundamental to Japanese game development, where innovation and gameplay mechanics are valued as much as, if not more than, graphics.Naka and his team’s work on Nights into Dreams exemplifies this philosophy. Nights is a masterpiece of 3D design that seamlessly integrates its fantastical air acrobatics with solid gameplay mechanics. It’s a game that feels alive, where the player is an extension of the whimsical Night character, soaring through vibrant worlds with real control and depth. Despite its brilliance, the world was ungrateful, quick to blame Naka for not following the typical Western trends instead of appreciating the artistry and effort behind Nights.Sonic Adventure, while ambitious, ultimately proved that Sonic was not suited for the 3D realm in the way many hoped. It’s a reflection of a fundamental truth: Sonic’s essence is rooted in speed, precision, and flow—qualities that are difficult to replicate fully in 3D without losing what made the original games great. The golden age of Sonic ended in 1994 with Sonic & Knuckles, and attempts to revive that magic have often fallen short because they overlook the core principles that made Sonic special. The Japanese approach, rooted in craftsmanship and a deep understanding of gameplay, is what made Sonic a legend. Without it, the franchise struggles to find its footing.
>>12770340Thanks Claude
>>12770049>I just don't see how it could have ever been a fun gameIt never could have. This "game" was made by the talentless losers at STI who worked on (and had literally all of their ideas rejected from) Sonic 2. The competent team made a game after this was cancelled and it released on the Dreamcast in 1998 and is still one of the most beloved games in the franchise.
>>12770452>This "game" was made by the talentless losers at STI who worked on (and had literally all of their ideas rejected from) Sonic 2Kek, reminds me of this:>As with the first game, Sonic 2's soundtrack was composed by Masato Nakamura, a member of the J-pop band Dreams Come True. Nakamura had become famous in Japan and increased his asking price considerably. According to Yamaguchi, Sega of America wanted to use music composed in-house instead. After the team rejected it as "awful", Sega rehired Nakamura
>>12770467I wasn't joking or exaggerating lmao. They had a bunch of artists and everything at STI who worked on the game, and it's confirmed through staff interviews that only one members work made it into the final game and it was some backgrounds he did for Oil Ocean and even then it was heavily retouched by the Japanese team.
>>12770049It's just a bad attempt at a 3D sonic game. I'm glad that Sonic Adventure became the definitive 3D Sonic game.
It absolutely could have worked with enough tweaking, considering Lost World is pretty much a reboot of the concept.
>>12770680>Implying Lost World worked
>>12770167yeah sex with their mom maybe? kek!
>>12770080>>12770125CD's flaw is that the game doesn't tell you to explore it. If you don't care about exploration then every level can be beat in a minute or less. This causes the experience to be worse overall. It doesn't help that the physics engine was completely bonkers until 2011 release.The audio visual direction is grand and hard to match. It really fits this character and his world.
>>12770049It wouldn't be a good game. STI are shitmakers (see: Spinball) and the plot ideas all sucked ass except for the proto-Deadly Six one.
>>12770235Symphony of the nights was never going to be a system seller, though.
>>12771062It sold well
>>12771062>>12771069It sold at all, unlike Sonic X-treme>>12770049The problem with the Saturn, 32X, SEGA CD, and the money wasted on Neptune's R&D is all due to the initially successful strategy of releasing the Genesis during the NES's reign.Both the Saturn and the Dreamcast had the same strategy of being weaker than the next generation, but stronger than the prior generation. In the short term that's fine, but it also means partway into every console you release, the competition releases something better. In hindsight if they never wasted R&D, marketing, production costs, devtime, etc, on the aforementioned shitty consoles/addons, they could have used the Saturn as a stopgap and gotten by just releasing Sonic 4 on it, until the Dreamcast was ready. The Dreamcast was actually financially successful, the problem was all that money spent on wasted endeavors had put SEGA so far in the red that the Dreamcast couldn't have just been a "good" seller, it had to do what the Genesis did again, and it obviously wasn't going to do that with the GCN and PS2 on the horizon/releasing. There's a timeline out there were SEGA of the late 90s/early 00s was only slightly better managed, and "Xbox" was just a 3rd party brand on the SEGA Galactic, or whatever name they gave the Dreamcast 2
>>12770060Dunno, quickly looking at a longplay of it again, Bug seems to be practically all claustrophobic character wide single paths, almost making it a "2D platformer, but***" less platforming and is definitively much slowerWhile Xtreme has slightly larger and more open areas where you're actually expected to move in 3D directions
>>12770080>>12770125Sonic CD is my fav Sonic and >>12770751 is right, it's actually an exploration game and there's several ways to play the game. What you're normally supposed to do is go around the past and break the 2 machines to get a good future in that zone, if you bother going to the good future. The travelling mechanism can also act as a trap "Fuck I didn't mean to travel", which happens often, and can also be used to get even more rings and items if you struggle to get 50 for the end of the level bonus game, which is the alternative way to play it. I just personally find it great because there's several ways to play itAnd then for 100%, there's a built in speedrun mode that has unlockables tied to your time score. One of those is the classic sound test and the various codes you can input in thereAlso JP OST is legitimately one of the best OST out there
>>12770751>>12771665Good information, thanks
>>12770125Sonic 1 and CD are fun, enjoyable platformers. Sonic 2 is still good but feels repetitive. Sonic 3 plays itself and gets boring after 10 minutes.
>>12771704>Sonic 3 plays itself and gets boring after 10 minutes.I could never get into Sonic 3, the first couple of levels just didnt grip me at all. I do need to try and beat it eventually though to see if it gets better.
>>12771723The "problems" zones of Sonic 2 IMO is Oil Ocean, I get there and I want to stop playing, it's boring.While for Sonic 3 it's Marble Garden Zone, it's a massive piece of shit, it's a tad confusing and the forced Spinning Top shit makes it really annoying to go through
>>12771732I love oil ocean, cant speed through it as a casual really, but I love the art/ style of the level
>>12770167It's for people who jack off to furry porn
5 minutes into the project they must have realized Saturn 3D Sonic was never going to be as fast, fluid, and organic as Genesis 2D Sonic. And because Sonic was written as a tech showcase and an artistic statement for the Genesis, they were too afraid to change it much so they had to come up with something. The map looks curved because it could never have the multiple smooth curves that 2D Sonic would roll out of, so they can use blocks and look right with less poly. The gameplay is gradual and exploratory because the tech wasn't there for large areas to fly by while Sonic runs.Mario is more versatile because he has less personality. He is a gameplay first character. He used to jump, then grab and throw enemies, now he punches. Sonic was hip but also a product of his time in design and also gameplay. He had too much personality to change into something that would work.Why not 2D Sonic? Because it's bad when the other consoles have protagonists that showcase all of the new experiences and ideas that they offer that were never possible before in consoles and you can only offer the same thing that's been done multiple times before in the previous generation and nothing new. Can you imagine people having faith in the Nintendo 64 if it had Super Mario World 2: More of the Same instead of Super Mario 64? Castlevania worked because Konami never had that problem to solve.Want to know how to make it fun? Make it an Alex Kidd game instead of Sonic. There, I fixed it.
>>12771736Me too, feels like there are so many routes you can do or intended shortcuts if you remember to speed up at certain times. Particularly fun to skip a cannon if you can. Missed, no big deal you can try again pretty soon.>>12772695Brutal, the loops using fake physics like the 8 bit games. Maybe make it like Pandemonium but that looked like crap even 2 years later.>>12770049Its like computer chronicles saying some upcoming game is so amazing because of all the content and animations but then it ends up being a not fun fmv game.>>12771624Being weaker didn't stop ps2
>>12772908>Being weaker didn't stop ps2Are you an actual fucking retard? The PS2 still shitstomps the Dreamcast in terms of raw horsepower, and was its direct competitor.It also had a DVD drive, instead of a CD drive, so there was quite literally no reason to develop for the Dreamcast anymore when it came out. The Xbox didn't let you play movies, but it also had a DVD drive. Add to that how piss easy it was to pirate on the Dreamcast, and it was basically taken out back and shot the second the PS2 was even a glimmer in Sony's eyes
>>12772981Every Dreamcast game runs in 480p where as PS2 runs internally on lower resolutions and upscales it to 480i. More memory doesn't mean better visuals.
>>12773027bodied that FREAKinterlacing is for fags and is indeed weakerdreamcast games look so clean
>>12773027> runs internally on lower resolutions and upscales it to 480iProvide some evidence.
>>12770049Xtreme would've worked if they had good level design, but it only got far as engine demos so we have no idea how it would've worked if they actually made good levels for it.>>12771624>The Dreamcast was actually financially successfulNo it wasn't, they'd have to release it at $250 for it to make money, instead they went for $200 and in two years dropped it to $50. It was a flop in Japan, a blip on the radar overshadowed by the coming PS2 in the USA, and the rest of the world just pirated every game for it.And Segas previous wasted money problems came from SoJ ordering SoA to sell more consoles the market could support, and then having to buy back all of them. And shit like making fucking amusement parks (Joypolis). The $100M Shenmue dip didn't help either.>>12770154>Sega should never have given the project to SoAThey had no choice, Yuji Naka was refusing to make a new Sonic game. I mean they could've just kicked him out, but SoJ were absolute full retards.>>12770060Bug also has areas where you flat out run on walls, not the same as loops but similar.
SoA killed SEGA.
>>12771624>the money wasted on Neptune's R&DIt had fuck all R&D, they only had to design one chip for it (and that was just a frame buffer that couldn't even write anything on its own). It went from concept to product in less than a year which is practically nothing.Dumpstering the 500k unsold stock probably was more money wasted, but nowhere near as much as SoJ forcing America to saturate the market with Genesis consoles, and then having to buy it all back when the SoJ mandated early Saturn launch had all retailers cleaning themselves clear out of everything Sega related.
>>12773419The PS2 supports VGA output only when you use Linux. If you want to play games, your options are 480i up to 1080i in Gran Turismo 4. DC plays every single game through VGA without any issues.You can see the internal resolution when emulating. Every single Dreamcast game runs at 640x480 where as PS2 games do something like 512x448 or even lower, depending on the game.
>>12773608448 is not being upscaled. This is an very common misconception. On the typical NTSC tv only 448 lines are visible. It would be a waste of the very limited VRAM to output additional lines that would never be seen.
>>12773027>>12773542>>12773549Thanks for the corrections. I'm gonna be real and admit I had no idea if what I was saying was right, and I knew if I just confidently said it here someone would give me the history of what actually happened.
>>12770174Lookin' good
>>12773545Yuji Naka killed Sega
>>12776670Ok, Mark.
>>12770162The classic games are so much better in widescreen it makes me wonder if they really thought through the idea of having a game about moving at high speeds on a 4:3 screen
>>12773658But then part of those 448 lines are covered by the overscan so you end up with even less.
>>12770340Yuji Naka left Sega in fucking 2006.
>>12776967Sure. 448 is the typical choice since some TVs will show all of them, and you want to avoid having excessive black bars which is a risk if you go lower.
>>12777000Checked and also Naka should return to Sega and release The End of Sonic The Hedgehog.A final masterpiece that deletes all Sonic games made after Sonic & Knuckles and gives the series and the character the closure it much needs.Make Dreams Come True in charge of the soundtrack and drag Oshima's ass back and MOST IMPORTANTLY bring Masaharu Yoshii back at directing and don't make him deal with any american or westerner.
>>12776687
>>12777216I loved this dude's channel until he stopped actually reviewing games and started just running the Truxton and Vectrex references into the ground>"Dude Vectrex and Truxton and Truxton on the Vectrex and an El Camino with a Vectrex in it and also Truxton!"
>>12777230Who the hell unironically watched guys like this for reviews? Just load the games up for free in an emulator and try them for FREE.AVGN was a comedy show so I could understand that, but this bozo and many others like him reviewing games was cringe
>>12777234Your zoomie ass doesn't know this, but Mark started uploading video reviews online in 1999, way before most people did, which is why he had a following
>>12777245Emulators have been around for much longer.Again, who needs to watch boring Mark review games back then?I watched a few of his videos many years ago and was bored to tears, very cocky voice like hes a character of some sort but no personality
>>12777247>Emulators have been around for much longer.Emulators for the Dreamcast in 1999? Emulators for the PS2 in 2000?
>>12777254Dreamcast games were FREEEE
>>12777258Just because you could pirate doesn't mean everyone did
>>12777259I know I just had to use it as an excuse to try and win the argument. You may have bested me, I dont know what he was reviewing in 1999 because I dont care (no offense to you knowing)
>>12770049>>12772695>>12773542It's always worth mentioning in these threads that the tech lead on Sonic X-Treme was Ofer Alon, a veritable genius who went on to create ZBrush.If Sonic X-Treme was stuck in "development hell" despite his efforts, it probably just wasn't doable on the Saturn, at least not in a remotely reasonable timeframe.
>>12777216I miss him so much bros, his reviews were boomer dad comfy kino
>>12777110>TVs will show all of themWhich? And why would they?
>>12777324CRTs were not exactly very precise in their calibration. It was all over the place, different tvs having significantly different amounts of overscan.
>>12777328But they all have some.
>>12770680There is no chance that it would have been good with the limited 3D hardware of the Saturn. You would not have been able to go as fast as the Genesis games due to the weird stage layouts, and in the off chance it ended up like R there would have been poor draw distances on Saturn and it's doubtful that the controls would be precise like a Mario 64 due to how fast the player would be going, it's doubtful they would have let the game play like Sonic World in Jam because then you'd get complaints from players like>Hurr why Sonic go slow???
