no, game is awesome

>>12793726
Yes. If you overlevel way too much even goblins will take ages to kill. I guess you're supposed to rely on magic to raise your stats, but I didn't give this game a second chance.

>>12793726
>>12793754
Just like morrowind people don't understand the green bar matters and affects how much damage you make

I didn't like how I couldn't arrange my loot and it just chucks it all over the place. Does not please my autism at all.

>>12793726
I had no problems because I'm not an autismo who grinds everything to level 100

Also consider people were more on average, retarded when it came to RPGs. Few people had any idea what was going on. Lots of babbys also played it and loved how they could be Legolas for 5 hours

>>12793726
the only thing that sucked about it is npcs you wanted alive getting killed because of it

my save where I reverse pickpocketed overpowered 0 weight enchanted weapons and clothing on every outdoor npc was pretty cool though

>>12793801
On youtube there's a channel who interviewed the developers of both Morrowind and Oblivion, presumably prompted by his love for the games..

..and on the Oblivion gameplay footage he is whacking at stuff with 0 fatigue, doing minimal damage.

I don't think it's because people "are retarded", it seems it's because monitoring the green bar just doesn't make for a fun game. Skyrim fixed it by making stamina a resource for different abilities, like magicka.

>>12793726
It was a big complaint, but most people played it anyway.
I don't really care for it, or rather wish it was handled more regionally. And that certain enemies would only show up in certain regions at certain levels at certain rarities.
It just wasn't handled well. Game makes up for it though. Wonder what mods are out there to help with that.

maze levels>open world

>>12793862
Yeah, no
Daggerfalls sucks nigger ass

>>12793870
Filtered. Daggerfall was the last good elder scrolls game. You just think of fellating black men all the time because you're gay and weak.

>>12793873
Holy cope, you see one town/dungeon you see them all, wide as the ocean shallow as a puddle, Daggerfall

>>12793726
No, just retarded youtuber revisionism

>>12793726
To be honest, me and my friends just turned the difficulty slider down in the later game. It was Bethesda's band-aid solution to a shit system.
In general we cared less about the integrity of "you beat the game" because the previous generation had games rife with fun cheats, and gameshark was a thing.

>>12793726
Just scale the difficulty down as needed.

>>12793881
Let's see your character

>>12793835
>And that certain enemies would only show up in certain regions
That's what it does. For example I haven't seen Dreughs spawn anywhere except the southern rain jungle.

>>12793968
I Uninstalled it but it was some absolutely broken shit like an high elf or breton immune to paralysis and other shit, Daggerfall's custom classes are broken

>>12793873
Daggerfall was the last good game in the series because it didn't need years worth of user mods to make it not a shitty flash in the pan game with a ton of shit that didn't play well without mods

>>12793991
Filtered

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>>12793726
idk i don't remember but i played the remaster, broke into a dude's home to murder him, sneak backstabbed him for like 8x damage or some shit and the dude lost 10% health
A regular, normal person with clothes on, not armor.

Uninstalled the game on the spot. Yes, scaling ruins games completely and utterly.

>>12793996
Yeah so filtered I learned how to make good characters, retard

Glass bandits and daedric marauders everywhere is kind of stupid. There are ways to deal with enemy HP scaling, but you're going to get stunlocked A LOT at high levels and there's not much you can do about that apart from kiting with destruction magic (which sucks) or casting invisibility as much as possible. Bows become useless, and so do all your cool melee power attacks (because of stunlock), so it's much better to rotate invis + paralyze + sneak power attack with a strong melee weapon. As for the leveling system, I think a lot of gripes about it would go away if you could utilize skill trainers more extensively.
On the other hand, I don't have any issue with the creatures being picked off a leveled list. To me that's just the Imperial Legion and Fighter's Guild being swamped with the Oblivion crisis, so naturally the world becomes a more dangerous place. I also don't think scaled loot is that big an issue. Yes you won't have the best version of every item unless you wait but let's be real, most of that shit is going in the junk drawer at your house. Having a crappy version of one item might motivate you to try something else for once.

>>12793726
honestly i don't think it is if you use all of the mechanics available, which includes making busted ass weapons and spells (very easy).

everyone bitched about level scaling, across multiple forums and imageboards

but people still generally had fun with the game

>>12793726
>everyone loved it on release
The level scaling was widely panned on release. People loved the game in spite of the level scaling, not because of it.

Nobody cared at the time, some babies cried (still do) about the mechanics, which were more akin to D&D than anything else (to-hit, damage taken, chance to block) because it was "3D" which meant... you were supposed to always hit or evade or something? Anyway everybody ignores those people, the setting, quests, it's mostly what you have today. But it's a poor substitute for Ultime VII.

>>12794019
Apparently you didn't otherwise you would still be playing the game, RETARD

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>>12794329
Fuckin shidders don't even play games I swear

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>was the leveling and scaling really that big of a deal?
>everyone loved it on release
They liked the game, but the scaling even back then was polarizing. I liked how you couldn't "overlevel" or minimize content, but I also didn't like how nothing was ahead of you in levels.
>>12793773
>Just like morrowind people don't understand the green bar matters and affects how much damage you make
True, though in Oblivion you can still chip and stagger enemies to death, and the bar wouldn't empty solely by running. Morrowind could also punish you early on if you want to melee things without a decent race and class combo.
>>12794329
>>12794332
You took pictures of your laptop as opposed to posting screenshots...?

>>12794335
Unlike you I can multitask multiple devices because I'm not a subhuman

>>12794337
Sort of besides the point and needlessly pissed, but can you now prove you didn't just download the saves?

>>12794337
t. adhd brainrot zoomer

>>12794337
lmao if you weren't a subhuman you wouldn't be playing on a laptop let along a fucking alienware one

>>12793726
i just lowered the difficulty. most people did, i assume. it's still bad you have to resort to that though.

Not retro.

>>12794323
Having a bad or op character doesn't make a bad game suddenly good, even a good game would be enjoyable with a shit character

>>12794659
Actually it changes a game a lot, just like difficulty does. You should know this if you ever played games before.

>>12794659
This is the most retarded post I've ever read

>>12794364
I saved it from a trashcan.
>>12794363
I'm 41 years old
>>12794339
>pRoVe YoU DiDnT DoWnLoAD SaVeS

It seems my superiority has caused some controversy. Later faggots, gonna go play some games while you stay here and argue about gay shit that doesn't matter

>>12794786
Tell you what, if you can find the save I downloaded, then I'll an hero on stream. Good luck searching!

>>12794781
>>12794785
If not using a meta character ruins your game or vice versa then your game was pretty boring and bad to begin with, a good game remains regardless of your build.

Agai my character was not the problem with Daggerfall, it was how samey dungeons were and the non existent overworld

>>12793726
Level scaling is peak dishonest design, it makes you think wow this game is really well balanced, I naturally come across adventures suited for my power level, then the veil is lifted and the game world is revealed to be a Truman Show fabrication where everything revolves around manipulating the feelings of you, the player, and the bandits somehow get glass armor because you chatted up some beggars. The acceptance of level scaling by normalniggers is just a symptom of their tendency to fall for frontloaded razzle-dazzle and inability to think and analyze what they are experiencing.

>>12794841
I'm not making judgements on a game or another being good or bad (that's meaningless on 4chan where everything is bad)

I am saying someone playing crap like (original) Daggerfall will have a better experience if using Recall spell.

Or I would argue that having a character that strikes the right balance of being challenging makes a better experience, but then again most RPG fans have underdeveloped frontal lobes and rather enjoy steamrolling through games so idk

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You just lower the difficulty

>>12793726
Yes, it was dogshit. The old TES skill/leveling system made it possible to level too many skills and the result is that your overall level would be higher than your fighting skills could handle.

>>12794869
This is a painful truth. It seems like it is lazy programming, much like procedurally generated dungeons.

>>12793726
>everyone loved it on release
No we didn't. I played Oblivion way back then, and I happen to be in the midst of a playthrough right now (original version, of course).

I think >>12794069 covers a lot of it. The rest of Oblivion was good enough to make up for the downsides of level scaling, but the scaling still sucks. To keep it simple, the biggest issues are immersion and progression. Having bandits suddenly start wearing glass armor is jarring. It doesn't make sense (why are they robbing you when they're rich?) and feels game-y. As for progression, level scaling not only robs you of the feeling that you're getting stronger, it can make the game suddenly more difficult when you hit a scaling step.

I think the scaling mechanic could have been fine if implemented differently, particularly leveled lists. New, stronger enemies should appear instead of the same bandits with fancy equipment. The lists should be wider with scaled encounter weights, so the weakest enemies still show up sometimes and the new enemies phase in gradually. Enemies that scale their HP with your level shouldn't exist outside a few select bosses. They're damage sponges and again ruin the feeling of progression when the same enemy takes more work to kill at a higher level. And leveled quests need a lot more care to be achievable at all player levels when NPCs are involved. The Chillrend quest is a great example of this.

>>12793726
Whenever I played this game I would run around collecting herbs and maxing alchemy. It was always the first skill I maxed out.
I always found the enemies difficult to kill, and I could only reliably kill them if I used one of my potions to poison them

>>12795205
Based potion poisoner

>>12795196
>The Chillrend quest is a great example of this.
The battle for bruma too. The guards always have the same equipment so they die real quick at higher levels

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>>12793726
Oblivion is mid compared to morro and skyrim but Shivering Isles is among the best DLCs ever made

>>12795205
For me, it was modding out the basic restoration spell and relying solely on potions for health recovery

>>12793726
I thought the level scaling was extremely shitty on release, you absolutely need to mod it to fix the game.

>>12793773
The green bar mattering is a separate thing from level scaling being really annoying.

>>12793873
>>12793862
Daggerfall is really only good for its main quest.

>>12793835
Doesn't RUIN the game, but it's such an awful flaw.

>>12794069
Broadly agree with your post.

>>12794147
>>12794295
Correct.

>>12794659
What fucking nonsense, even in a simple game like Diablo you can ruin it by being retarded, like trying to use and stat your Sorcerer exclusively for melee.

>>12794786
>I saved it from a trashcan.
I think you're vastly overrating the true qualities of Daggerfall, but I also respect you for recycling/reclaiming perfectly good hardware someone else just threw away. A free computer is a free computer.

>>12794364
Laptops are extremely convenient if you travel. I can play most of the games I'd ever want on the one I'm playing on right now, just bring my mouse for computer games and programs, and my gamepad for console games.

With free time over, I can find a good place to sit down, plug in my headphones, and then play a game, or work on some project.

>>12795196
THANK YOU.

>>12795684
Shivering Isles is my favorite part of Oblivion by far.

>>12795845
Thanks for being logical and reasonable. I just really enjoy the janky broken mess, it adds another level to the gameplay. I grew up on morrowind but honestly prefer daggerfall and it's ridiculously large dungeons. The people I was arguing with have clearly never put any time into the game and would rather discuss screenshots vs photos(only fags don't want to see pictures of actual hardware running) or they want to nitpick and bicker, literally do anything else than play videogames. You a real one in this sea of piss and I respect and salute you.

>>12795845
>Laptops are extremely convenient if you travel.
That anon isn't traveling though so your point is moot.

>>12795839
You ruin Diablo by picking Warrior and being stuck with the same boring stand still and click gameplay for 20 hours straight.

>>12796201
True.

>>12796209
Warrior needs spells or he will be fucked.

>>12796201
You don't know that, now do you? Nice gotcha, faggot.

>everybody loved it on release
lol this was the fastest play and resell of my gaming career

>>12796209
Sounds awesome. Especially 2 player on the psx

If you're not actively walking while using the laptop you're not traveling, and if you can't also keep a mouse pad on your gut you're not a man

>>12796489
Oh yeah, I'll just fucking pack up a whole-ass stationary computer setup in my car every time I go somewhere, you insipid thundermongoloid. Fuck you.

>>12793726
The people that loved it on release were retarded children who didn't know any better.
Now they're retarded 30-year-old manchildren who comprise the entirety of Oblivion's "fanbase".
All other generations, younger and older, agree that Oblivion is horrid trash.

>>12796857
Glad you got the joke, dumbass. I posted a laptop ITT and ome faggot threw a shitfit.

The problem is you usually shouldn't level up the moment you are able to and game doesn't really tell you that

>>12793726
I love oblivion but it sucks that adding a mod often breaks something else or has some issue with it.

>>12793862
100% wrong

>>12793726
Yes and no, most people just lowered the difficulty. People who didn't complained, and it was definitely an issue, just there was a janky built in work around.

>>12797405
yeah it was an eternal war of casual vs. hardcore where hardcore players would gripe about the game's shitty systems, and casuals would just say "lol lower the difficulty bro" because it's earnestly what they did to have more fun

>>12797679
Best way I have heard the Oblivion discussions described desu senpai

>>12797679
>hardcore players
HAHA for a RPG? HAHA

>>12793726
I just ended up using minor skills desu and leveled my major skills if I felt like I wanted to level up. I played skyrim first and beat oblivion later. I think my major skills were like swords light armor destruction etc but ended up using a mace the entire game cause it was a minor skill. I really liked oblivion desu

I just wish there was a way to increase to view distance of full resolution objects and textures. it's way too short

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>>12793726
no
its literally just this uesp post made in like 2007, that somehow stood uncontested for ~20yrs. the damage was then amplified manyfold by dumbfuck jewtubers who looked up "how 2 git gud at oblivion" and referenced this exact post for their playthroughs/videos, so as to avoid being called a noob online. and now zoomers, who watch said jewtubers, repeat it as gospel despite never having actually played the original release of the game

the only way you can truly fall "behind" the scaling is if you either powerlevel 30 levels by maxing your alchemy when youre lvl1, or playing as that stupid backwards class that everyone seems to shill to new players. PROTIP: dont do it, its bad, weaker, AND unfun
if you just play it like a 12yo who doesnt know wtf, quest around for cool loot, and pick the cool sounding skills that you want to use as mains, youll be much stronger. and not by a little bit either. by a factor. all game.

theres 3 ACTUAL scaling problems in oblivion, and neither have much to do with difficulty/combat, nor were they addressed in the remaster
>enemy and loot table ranges should be wider
leveling up to a new bracket means that all weaker loot and enemies disappear. it feels artificial and reduces encounter variety. they shouldnt do that. lower tiers should just gradually become more rare. this would also stop bandits from spawning in full daedric at high levels
>the 5 or so enemy types that actually have scaling HP, should have a cap
contrary to popular belief, very few enemies scale HP. at all. if goblin warlords and ogres stopped scaling their HP at lvl 25, no one would even notice its happening.
>leveled quest rewards
should keep scaling with you. doing a quest "too early" and getting stuck with a weak version of that item forever is lame. just have it level up to the next tier as you lvl up

tl;dr
oblivion is the pinnacle of modern internet midwittery retroactively ruining a videogame for everyone

>>12798843
so to sum it up, the game is busted ass shit and the thing you quoted is true. riveting.

>>12793726
Yes. Killed any interest in the game for me after I noticed it a few hours in. Some mechanics are so pants on head retarded they can sink well done entire cohesive games. Do not do a level scaling system like this in an RPG. Ever. You're shooting your game in the foot. You can bring out all sorts of evidence and arguments as to why it's an amazing idea and it just doesn't map to reality. Like flat earthers so deep they don't realize the concept itself was starting from shit.

>>12798843
>n-no, it's not true, they are hating my precious childhood game, that means they are all just lying zoomers and youtubers
Lots and lots of people complained at the time. I know it was your first TES game, but there were older people with prior experience and expectations.

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>>12798862
Heh, he thinks the earth is round, exactly what you'd expect from a midwit who thinks Oblivion's level scaling isn't good.
God, I'm so smart and cool.

>2006
not retro
how is this thread still up?

>>12798946
See: >>11702620

>>12798843
>You've almost unlimited ways to build and level up your char, but unless you do it in a very, VERY specific way, the game will eventually become a slog.

This game made me hate level scaling, and I didn't mind at all in Final Fantasy 8

>>12798843
>contrary to popular belief, very few enemies scale HP. at all.
That's just a flat out lie, you can literally look up this stuff. Most random creatures and high level dungeon mobs have leveled HP, almost all the enemies in the expansions have leveled HP, plenty of quest mobs, guards.

>>12793973
Yeah, and trolls in the mountains or whatever, but you still get too much "everything" "everywhere". I mean higher level monsters should be more regional. the starting area, low level. Further away, different regions, higher level. It just seems like there's a smarter way do level scaling. Not that I can articulate it from my phone apparently.

>>12798843
>the pinnacle of modern internet midwittery
the irony of this post was not lost on me

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>>12799281
nah its very very few
picrel. the asterisked enemies. thats it. literally no other creatures change whatsoever. they are exactly the same as when they first spawn in, all game, in all respects, all stats, HP, damage, resistances, etc.
meanwhile NPCs can only scale HP off of their endurance attribute, which is tied to their class, and other than "boss" NPCs, always have a lvl differential where they are a few lvls lower than you. and in most cases, their END never even gets to 100. so youre always outscaling them by a lot if you maxed your END out at any point during the game which most do very early
the bigger annoyance is, like i said, the loot table meaning they spawn in with glass and daedric when youre > lvl 40

see tho? this is precisely what i meant
you dont actually know what youre talking about, you havent looked at the numbers, probably havent played it in years, and are completely confident in your objectively wrong opinion.
oblivion has a TON of shit like that. nearly every major mechanic has some internet myth built up around it by the 80IQ internet discourse thats surrounded it in the years since

>>12794792
if you wasn’t a retarded 41 year old i wouldn’t own up to it anyways.
>>12799004
>Retro gaming means platforms launched in 2001 and earlier
>and official game titles for those platforms released no later than December 2007
a 2001 desktop would struggle with morrowind, and the required directx version for oblivion came out in 2004.
the honest answer is posthack moderation not caring or having nostalgia for gen 7. just update the rules at this point.

>>12793870
Skill issue.

>>12799752
This only covers a handful of the enemies in the game you disingenuous cunt. Like I said the LATE GAME enemies which you will encounter over half of the time beyond level 20 are the ones that have scaling because why have scaling on enemies that do not spawn. This list does not include any NPC's, quest mobs, or the expansions all of which having scaling HP. The NPC's I will admit mostly do not have scaling, unless you are "supposed" to fight them such as the Arena or almost any quest related NPC. But random shopkeeps or beggars won't.
As a side note for some reason Agronak is just always level 10 no matter what and if you go in late enough he is a complete joke of a grand champion even without doing his quest.

>>12793862
>>12793873
retard

>>12794990
Or better yet, mod the game

>>12800502
Level cap these
>>12799752
enemies and wa lah

>>12799190
>>You've almost unlimited ways to build and level up your char, but unless you do it in a very, VERY specific way
The "very, VERY specific way" meaning some ability of dealing damage, and since most of the game is combat, a player naturally has what it takes

Therefore, anyone who complains is a retarded autist who grinded speechcraft to 100 (for some autist reason) before leaving the imperial isle

>>12799307
>>12793973
Will o wisps only appear in swamps too. Except during blood of the daedra where one appears near the azura shrine.

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>>12800572
Whatever you say, Todd, whatever you say

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>>12793726
it a game that get's worse the more you understand it.

>>12800818
>doesn't use the special moves
hmm.. curious..

>>12800818
>0:32
this is worse than the scaling honestly, the stunlocks from recoils. There are times when ive gotten stunlocked for 10 seconds just over and over unable to do anything. combat is just so miserable and I have no idea why people think this game has better combat than morrowind.

>>12800821
special moves are less dps. power attack is 3x damage and you can attack more than 3 times in the time it takes to do 1 power attack.

>>12800829
also shitty is that if you knockdown a shielding enemy, then their flaccid body will still be blocking your hits so you can't even expect to get free swings on em all the time

>>12800818
Aren't you supposed to do more damage with a higher weapon skill in oblivion?

>>12800940
You actually do more damage, but thanks to the wonky level scaling, enemies end up having so much hp that they need more hits to be killed.

>>12800940
there's something fucky going on in that webm because both times are against a skeleton hero and both times are 23 hits

>>12793754
Just don't level up every time its available. The game does a bad job of telling you this but generally only level up when you start to feel op or want better gear

>>12793786
Are you playing the remaster or the original? The original sorts everything

Not a fan of level scaling in rpgs in general but oblivion also does a really poor job of explaining its systems. The backlash also led to skyrim being even more simplified so any retard can play it

Getting bored of the main game. Just finished the thieves guild. Should I just go and start shivering isles or plow through the rest of the main quest first?

>>12801323
Well if you're getting bored, don't force yourself to play more than you want to. What the hell guys lol.

>>12801327
Sunken cost fallacy

>>12801330
No reason to force yourself to play a game until burnout, resentment and profound hate. Take a break, and leave some content for another playthrough.

>>12801310
He means placing it as decorations, something which Havok, especially the way it's implemented in Oblivion, makes troublesome and annoying.
Morrowind doesn't have Havok physics, but you can just place stuff, so decorating your home is much quicker and easier.

The scaling can be countered by just lowering the difficulty.
To me the big issue is the limited voices. This is a very original observation, you'll be talking to a beggar, but then they'll switch over to the aristocrat voice cause both groups are programmed to tell you the same thing but they only recorded it once.

>>12801128
That doesn't make sense in the video though since the player is still level 1.

>>12801826
This, level scaling is only for player level (and skeleton heroes don't scale anyway). The relevant portion of the damage formula is:

>(0.2+ModifiedSkill×0.015)

Meaning you get 1.5% additional base weapon damage for each blade skill level. The damage should be 2.75 vs 17 in that video, without armor or resistance.

>>12801132
Yeah, the point it makes I understand but realistically with a glass weapon at 100 blade should do about 6x more damage than a level 5 blade skill.
Oblivion's combat at it's core is very similar to morrowind if you always had 100% chance to hit. I'm fairly certain there was a mod that made the combat more like morrowind back in the day. The real changes are to the other systems like blocking, special moves, and most importantly, always being able to cast spells at the press of a button.

>>12793726
I had my Xbox 360 set to put games on Hard by default. I beat this game and realized there was a difficulty scale slider. I had to max out summoning early on. The rats at the beginning were hard!

>>12802074
The issue is that Oblivion physical damage floats around 40% of Morrowind's given how Strength is nerfed and every melee weapon for some reason has a 0.5 damage multiplier
This is further exacerbated by magic being massively buffed with both natural regeneration and skills massively reducing your spells' costs, while not being affected by fatigue

>>12802130
Magic was made more powerful generally but being a dedicated mage kind of sucks (it does let you bypass half the skills tho) almost any class will end up as some sort of battle mage because quite simply it's the most overpowered.

>>12801307
Telling me to not level up in a rpg is like telling me that I shouldn't shoot in Contra. That's the main point of any rpg, holy shit.

>>12800818
Outside of bait webms, don't those skelly heroes die in like 4 power attacks?

>>12793726
>action RPG
>does this design feature matter in my button mashing version of RPG

my guy...

Ahem.
Not retro.

>>12793726
>was the leveling and scaling really that big of a deal?
Oblivion is the best game example of zoomer revisionism plaguing the internet.. It all started around 2015.
>"X game is le bad because it not like my 8th gen games... Literally unplaable, fr \broccoli_hair_end_quote"

>>12802878
Oblivion has been clowned for its imbalanced level curve (especially the huge difficulty spike at levels 7-10 when you don 't realistically have time to build your character against enemies that are five times beefier and thrice as strong) since release

>>12802878
We all complained about it on release, the only revisionism here is yours.

>>12801415
This is exactly what I meant. Thanks for clarifying, anon.

>>12793726
this game's combat is terrible. you can only frolic around collecting flowers so long before you have to ask why you are even playing this shit.

>>12802878
I was there. We talked about the difference in difficulty your level made at Kvatch from day 1. But we still liked Oblivion overall.

The game us boomers said was bad was Skyrim, because it used a console UI and control scheme.

>>12803350
Can confirm.

>>12793726
Honestly if you play the game like it was designed (as an action RPG) you'll level up just fine. The only time your level would fuck you is if you decided to spend hours powerleveling speechcraft or some other useless shit. Play it like an action game, level up your combat abilities with everything else second and you'll have no issues the whole way through.

>>12803350
>>12803379
>samefag since 2012

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>>12803410
I'm actually really surprised to see someone else with a 2012 pass, we're real rare.

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>>12803410
They didn't have passes back in 2006 when I first started coming here. Nevermind all the other posts in this thread arguing against the notion that all of this is just some zoomer revisionism.

One of my absolute biggest gripes back when Skyrim was new was that they did away with attributes and dumbed the gameplay down even further. In some ways, I think Skyrim is a bit better than Oblivion, but overall, I feel that both are mostly dumbed down from Morrowind.
That said, I probably played Oblivion more than I did Skyrim, just because I got tired of Skyrim way faster (and I hated the lack of attributes). Oblivion has Shivering Isles, and Skyrim doesn't.

>>12803412
I guess not enough fools fell for it back then, lol.

>>12803424
>Oblivion has Shivering Isles, Skyrim doesn’t
I’ve enjoyed Skyrim’s main “overworld” compared to Oblivion’s Cyrodil. Skyrim has “perk trees” but they do not make up for the lack of classes and attributes.
It’s biggest one-up over Oblivion, by this point, is the obscenely huge amount of mods. I’m pretty bored of the basegame in both, not so much with modded (like fucking crazy) Skyrim though.

>>12793726
The issue with scaling is it means you don't get strong by doing quests snd adventures. You get strong by acquiring equipment and AVOIDING leveling up.

Yet it still is designed as though leveling up is good. You do something, gain skill in it, it feels cool but you actually went backwards.

Im told the best play styles are ones that just prevent your character from leveling.

>>12803827
the intention was that players could do content in any order and the challenge and rewards would still be appropriate. but I agree that the implementation wasn't great

>>12803856
It was the right approach to take for such an open world RPG, and understandably they didn't get it right the first time so early in 2006.

It's one of the things I love about the games, being so replayable. There's no rigid order of progress, where I would always have to repeat the same designated low level area/content whenever I start a new character.

>>12793726
Everyone loved Skyrim too, doesn't mean the skill trees weren't unbalanced.
Oblivion's major/minor skill autism is simply put one of the worst leveling systems in any rpg ever. It's literally backwards, you have to pick your skills backwards and put your major into a minor.
In conclusion fuck you and this game.

>>12793726
It's a really great game bogged down with some annoying mechanics. My original character would up being so shit after leveling that I had to rely on abusing 100% chameleon enchantments...which was a bit boring.

>>12804254
>My original character would up being so shit after leveling that
That's impossible

>>12803908
They arguably did it better with Morrowind: It has level lists mixed with static/persistently leveled encounters, mostly NPCs. I think its important for an ‘open world’ to have areas that are dangerous for lower levels, and MW still has plenty of areas that are comfortable for newer characters.

>>12805209
>They arguably did it better with Morrowind
its not even arguable. Noone on earth has ever complained about imbalanced level scaling in morrowind yet its the biggest complaint in oblivion. morrowind objectively did it better.

>>12802843
/thread

>>12793726
WTF, this is an XBOX 360 game!

>>12805209
>did it better with Morrowind
Nah. They overcorrected Morrowind's problems with Oblivion. Then found the right balance with Skyrim.

>>12805815
>Nah. They overcorrected Morrowind's problems with Oblivion.
Are you insinuating that Oblivion’s is still better than Morrowind’s, or that it’s worse because of the “overcorrections?”

>>12805937
Oblivion does it better than Morrowind, but the developers could have used more time to work on it. They polished it up for Skyrim.

>>12805982
>Oblivion does it better than Morrowind
Nah. You need danger in your “open world”, and it’s hard to do that when the near entirety of it is at the player’s pace. Higher level content also adds to the thin veil of “believability” like a lair of vampires or an old Telvanni wizard who aren’t as similarly experienced (scaled) as the player character is.

>>12806043
Too bad Morrowind becomes way too easy way too soon.

>>12806063
It’s not a problem exclusive to Morrowind.

>>12806070
Yep

>>12806063
Sure, but that hinges on the player choosing to powergame. You can go full retard with alchemy in Morrowind, Oblivion, and Skyrim, but not every player is going to choose to break any one of those games over their knee like that.
You might do that on odd occasion because it's just fun to fuck around, like playing some games with God Mode for a bit, but it'd be boring to always approach a game like that.

>>12806458
I see your knowledge of Morrowind comes from watching videos of it on youtube.
Morrowind is broken the moment your warrior finds a weapon better than plain steel, which won't take long.

>>12806532
A glass axe won't magically let you effortlessly take on Greater Bone Walkers, high level clan Vampires, Werewolves, or Golden Saints.

Is morrowind the only post daggerfall bethesda game that actually lets you roleplay?

People shit on skyrim for removing rog mechanics being more a action adventure game but it all started with oblivion. Starfield actually somewhat tried to bring back some rpgs mechanics but that game sucks

>>12806542
>A glass axe won't magically let you effortlessly take on Greater Bone Walkers
Let's see
>greater bonewalker
>starts spawning at PC level 5-9
>HP = 100
>glass war axe damage = 1-33
You're right, it would take a couple of seconds to kill one

>>12806542
For another example: That White Sword of Woe is a big boon near the start, but you’re still needing some decent stats and skills to make consistent use of it.
Still probably not that hard of a game in the long run (none of later TES games are, really) save for a few speed bumps like a particular lich and the luckiest Bosmer in the world, though it does help that you can still run into areas that can trouble an undercooked character.

>>12806582
>You're right, it would take a couple of seconds to kill one
He's also cursing and attacking you, and you're still dependent on your own Axe skill. He may also not be alone either. You can win of course, but he's still a bastard at level 10, especially if you don't know to carry restore attribute stuff on you.

While I'm at it, I can also bring up High Ordinators, Umbra, and Spriggans for others who can take and give a lot of pain (and Werewolves again, they are among the tougher cunts, really). Daedroths, Ogrims, Ascended Sleepers, and Ash Vampires can be mean at low levels too.
They're hardly unbeatable, but while knowing where you can get a sick as fuck Daedric Dai-Katana early on may help a lot for combat in general, if you're still only like level 12 there's a number of foes which are gonna still have a strong numbers advantage over you. Maybe even a literal one, in where you could potentially take some of them 1 on 1, but you don't get that luxury readily.

>>12806647
>Still probably not that hard of a game in the long run
Oh, it's certainly not, not at all, but you do need to actually do some leveling to build stats and skills, otherwise combat will be like pulling teeth.
Compare to how Pokémon Red or Diablo really aren't harsh or complicated games at all (at least on Normal for the latter), but you still need to build up your numbers to get somewhere, and you still need to play in a way that makes sense.

>>12806545
It always felt like it was better at it than Oblivion and Skyrim. They aren't totally devoid of roleplaying, they even add a bit of their own which you don't get in Morrowind, but Morrowind always felt like it gave you way more space to immerse yourself into the setting.

>>12806708
You should try playing Morrowind sometime. Pick a warrior class with any of the warrior oriented races and you're golden.

>>12806723
Yeah, you can run straight into any vampire den, right?

>>12806747
Like straight off the boat? At least grab a silver/magic weapon and potions.

>>12806863
That’s still going to get you killed with most lairs if you plan on leaving the difficulty slider untouched.

>>12802083
nice larp, faggot, there is no hard difficulty

>>12806914
Generic vampires are level 5 scrubs. Check out the tomb east of seyda neen and see if your warrior can't stunlock them to death in a couple of hits.

>>12806945
That's great, now go into one of the vampire clan lairs at level 1.

>>12806863
>silver
The base game's silver weapons do not have Bloodmoon's silver weapon effect, so that's not going to help at all for any normal weapon resistance.

>>12807119
Why?
>>12807132
Silver and better quality weapons ignore normal weapon resist

>>12807167
>Why?
Clan vampires are much stronger and much faster, and much better equipped.

will i like morrowind if i only played skyrim?

>>12807176
I'm pretty sure I can beat them at level one.

>>12807215
Record video of it, then.

It was fine, most people finished the game on release and never realized until it became a meme on the internet.

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>>12807212
You might. Combat will be less flashy, and you can't cast spells at the same time as you have a weapon out (casting and wielding a weapon is two different modes you switch between), and blocking is only done with shields, which is automatic and passive (based on your block skill), rather than active with a button.

You're pretty dependent on stamina/fatigue, where if you run out, you're going to suffer in combat (hitting worse, staggering more easily), and you'll drain it by running around everywhere at first, so you need to be carrying potions of restore fatigue on your person to help deal with that (fighter's guild gives away lots for free if you sign up as a member, and they're common to find).
Combat is going to be maybe a bit rough for the first few levels, but once you're past the first few hours of the game it's going to get much smoother.

There's premade classes, or you can make your own.
If you make your own, make sure that multiple of your tagged major skills at least correspond to your tagged attributes (hover your mouse over them to see which attribute governs any given skill). Leveling up your tagged skills will let you level up your character, and you get bonuses in attributes pertaining to the skills you improved.
Non-tagged skills can be leveled up, and that still gives attribute bonuses, but they don't count towards leveling up your character.

You can min-max for racial bonuses and star signs and what not for a better optimized character out of the gate, but it's not vital, if you start with like 40 in your intended primary weapon skills you should have ok accuracy with those weapons from the beginning.

For doing quests, you NEED to pay attention to what people are telling you and follow road directions (they'll be written down in your journal), there's no automatic compass markers.

Original game has crashes and bugs, so using something like the Code Patch or similar which fixes them is recommended, no reason to endure THAT old pain.

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Oh yeah, there's no 'free' fast travel function like in the later titles, where you just select a discovered location on your map and you'll go there.

You will need to depend on travel services (there's a fair few), plain just walking, and then certain teleportation spells/scrolls/items. Scrolls of Divine Intervention and Almsivi Intervention is basically like your town portal spells/scrolls, they'll take you to the nearest Imperial and Dunmer shrines respectively.

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>>12807312
I'm not >>12807215 but here.
You can still get unlucky if he decides to keep looping the lifesteal.
That said, the initial claim from >>12806914 was
>""most""" lairs
And could have been referring to one of the actual clan hideouts.

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>>12807345
i did dl a "vanilla-ish" mod pack, Just Good Morrowind. (im not using any 4k shit) i wanna make a meme stealth archer or simple fire mage. Is that possible? im also a disablefag and have to use a controller so lol lmao

>>12807415
Smack em with a hammer and they're on their knees waiting for a deathblow

>>12807418
I don't recommend stealth, unless you do it via magic (invisibility spells), but even then.. Nah.
I play with a controller too.

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>>12807418
>(im not using any 4k shit)
I never thought that kind of super highres stuff looked good, but personally I always used Better Bodies and Better Faces because I feel they are a reasonable and fitting visual upgrade without standing out like a sore thumb. Also they have nudity, just because.

>i wanna make a meme stealth archer or simple fire mage. Is that possible?
It should be. Dunmer would be a good choice for a fire mage, since they have a natural 75% fire resistance, and you don't want to get roasted by reflected magic.
You could even combine fire mage with stealth archer, and honestly ranged weapons are a kind of blessing by themselves because they allow for dealing with the dreaded pest known as Fucking Cliffracers more smoothly.
(There's mods which make non-diseased Cliffracers leave you the fuck alone, which isn't vanilla, but I sure wouldn't blame you for using one eventually).

>controller
Morrowind was tandem developed on PC and XBox, and it has pretty good gamepad support and function. I'm a weird freak who plays with controller and mouse at the same time (analog + mouselook feels really comfy and smooth), and even that works with Morrowind.

>>12807453
Invisibility/chameleon can do a lot for stealth.

>>12807430
>Smack em with a hammer and they're on their knees waiting for a deathblow
https://en.uesp.net/wiki/Morrowind:Combat#Damage
I think it's more dependent on just being a two-handed weapon with high damage per hit and maybe weight, I don't think it's a "perk" of blunt weapons.

>>12807471
Probably, I did it with the shardaxe from seyda neen's stump

>>12807476
shartaxe lol
That thing is my early game buddy when playing an axe orc.

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Goddamnit, this thread is making me wanna pick up Morrowind, haven't played it in maybe a decade, perhaps even longer, but I don't have the time to fucking do that, I have obligations!

Just hold it together, you'll savor the kino so much more. I'll roll a Dunmer samurai or something who'll fight for House Redoran with Bonemold armor and a Dai-Katana.
MUST RESIST, TAMRIEL REBUILT WILL BE EVEN BETTER ONCE I'M FREE!

>>12807176
>>12807215
Okay, it took me under an hour to start a game and kill Divayth Fyr. I can barely carry the daedric armor. Do any of the vampire dungeons have a helmet that would complete the set?

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>>12808581
>can kill Divayth Fyr in under an hour
>doesn't know where any of the Daedric helmets are

>>12808602
I looked it up and now I have a full daedric set and more. Still 5 skill levels to go until I'm level 2.
>>12807471
I got a golden saint on her knees with a one handed mace, so it's not just twohanded weapons apparently

>>12808707
>I got a golden saint on her knees with a one handed mace, so it's not just twohanded weapons apparently
>**Higher damage**, such as those from slower but hard-hitting two-handed weapons, **increases the chances** of a knockdown
I mean just reading the link in the post you quoted shows that. Now let's see those webms.

>>12807464
I had a friend that wanted to replace an analog stick with a mouseball. I always thought that was a cool idea

Quarra masters are dead. One more skill up until level 2, and looks like it will be athletics. I should return fargoth's ring.

>>12808714
I'm taking the daedric battleaxe for a spin to see how it does

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>>12793726
Hey, this isn't retr-
>release date: 20 Mar 2006
Fuck...

>>12808765
>still no webms
>>12808802
>release date: 20 Mar 2006
Not sure how it would run on a 2001 PC though.

>>12808810
It wouldn't. maybe with Oldblivion.

>>12808802
Still not retro, it's a 7th gen game. Being X years old isn't what makes it retro.

>>12808810
Sorry, you'll have to go to youtube for your morrowind videos. Besides, the challenge run is over. I reached level 2.

>>12808825
>you'll have to go to youtube for your morrowind videos
But I wanted to see YOUR gameplay, even a screen would be acceptable if still boring.

>>12808827
I said I'm sorry

>>12808820
>Being X years old isn't what makes it retro.
This is the same rule Boomers use to deny my car with antique plates entry to classic car shows.

>>12808820
Time moves forward, regardless of how you feel. What was once new, is now old.

>>12808827
>>12808837
>not even a screenshot
A bit sussy.
>>12808890
Now we just need a rules change >>11702620
Because while it is a pre-2007 release, it's for a "platform" built beyond 2001.

>>12808893
>it's for a "platform" built beyond 2001.
PCs are evergreen.

>>12808896
If only the sticky stated as such.

>>12808886
No one wants to see your crappy FWD pontiac grand prix(my mistake if your car is actually cool, I have an aw11 as my fun car)

>>12797679
Tbh if lowering the difficulty in RPGs means that the ONLY difference is that items are cheaper and HP of bosses is a bit lower, then I don't see the point playing on hard, as it means basically an inferior experience. I can comfortably play on Hard in New Game+ if there's some new stuff and you're already busted from the beginning, so raising the difficulty to experience it makes sense.

>>12808980
>Tbh if lowering the difficulty in RPGs means that the ONLY difference is that items are cheaper and HP of bosses is a bit lower, then I don't see the point playing on hard, as it means basically an inferior experience
Unless the lower costs and smaller health pools "cheapens" the experience.

>>12808886
I don't know cars, but odds are they're correct and you don't belong there.

>>12808890
Things aren't either new or retro. Games get older, yes, but that's not all that makes them retro.

>>12808980
yeah bit every hardcore player likes to believe the developer knew what they were doing when balancing the game's difficulties and such. bethesda really didn't, so unsurprisingly a lot of people put themselves on mr. bones wild ride trying to "rightfully" beat Oblivion

>>12793726
No it just has a difficulty spike

>>12809351
Mountain lions filtered all the breton spellsword shitters so hard they invented the efficient leveling cope

>>12809183
>I don't know
>but odds are they're correct
This might be the best example of the typical /vr/ poster I've ever seen.

>>12793995
True, but in current year the unity port has an amazing modding scene and the game is absolutely perfect now. I’m not even mad that The Wayward Realms is likely vaporware now, its innovations over Daggerfall will likely be modded into Daggerfall eventually anyway at the pace the community is working

>>12807464
im seeing yellow triangles in seyda neen uhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhh

>>12809440
According to you, they're using the rule that "something being X years old doesn't make it retro". That rule is correct, therefore so are they. Basic deductive thinking isn't as hard as you're making it sound like.

>>12809640
nvm fixed it was a conflicting sign post mod kek

>make my major skills the stuff i plan on using the most
>not only did i majorly fuck up the enemy scaling, i majorly fucked up my levelup stat gains too
>skill leveling only considers the fact you did the action at all, not the value of it

Oblivion has the worst leveling system of any game I've ever played.

>>12809881
>>make my major skills the stuff i plan on using the most
>plan on using the most

>>12809925
What don't you understand? You tag your Major Skills, which gives 15ish levels towards those skills. Obviously anybody playing the first time is going to mark Blade because of course you're going to be swinging a sword a lot throughout the game, but doing that is a big no-no.

>>12809932
What else are you using besides your major skills?

>>12809951
There's a bunch of skills in the game you use in some form, but due to how leveling works, you have to tag all the skills you plan to use the least to prevent overleveling and ending up with a world filled with minotaurs and overpowered daedra.
This is all because if you were to beeline Blade, you'd get the chance to get +3 or so STR on a levelup but only +1 in other skills. You need to minmax hard to get the full +5 in all 3 stats you've chosen on the levelup. What this means is bad leveling only gets you +1 in 3 different stats, as opposed to +5 in those same 3. Getting only 20% of the stat points is a pretty big problem.

I'm not the best at explaining it but tl;dr if you use only your major skills you get worse levelups, leading to some people refusing to ever sleep to avoid leveling.

>>12809962
>This is all because if you were to beeline Blade, you'd get the chance to get +3 or so STR on a levelup but only +1 in other skills.

>>12809971
Yes, the +3 is bad, because it's not the +5 it could have been. You fuck up for not wasting time using Blunt or Hand to Hand, which would have contributed to gaining more stats.

doesnt stats max out at a 100? why do you need to min max something you are going to hit anyway

>>12809974
The difficulty is designed around +2 bonuses to favored attributes upon level ups

>>12808748
That's sort of what a trackball is, only those are replacement for mice (and certain people love them, I believe they are much gentler to use than mice if you have shoulder injuries and stuff).
There's definitely a wide territory of not very widely explored ideas for different controller types, but which have quite a lot of potential value for a niche audience.

>>12810043
>trackball
That is the correct term and what I meant initially, thank you for clarifying

>>12809881
>I have to have the most overpowered character or else I can't have fun
People like you are genuinely retarded. But I will throw you a bone and agree that using a master level spell and getting the same xp as the lowest level spell is retarded especially when you can't delete spells so if you make a bunch of cheap spells for leveling you clutter up the inventory.
Seriously though, the stat bonuses barely matter and stressing over them is pointless. END only matters for early levels and you can start the game with it at like 80 if you really want to, str matters a bit but as long as it's above 50 you'll be fine, everything else literally doesn't matter you can just make or get gear that will fill in those gaps.
Just because you didn't use them isn't the games fault, there is a built in way to enable notarget in this game that trivializes everything. That's just one way to completely break the game without even using exploits.

>>12810473
I'm not even asking to be overpowered. The game is simply dishonest and focusing on your major skills is a fast track to every enemy becoming a mountain of HP.

>>12810696
Are you disabled?

>>12793754
I started by ignoring the main quest, fucked around and levelled up. I got fucked when trying to do kvatch. I love this game but you have to be careful about the levelling system

>>12810752
Kvatch is the most brutal part of the game at any level

>>12810473
If strength mattered as much as autists think, becoming a vampire would be a good choice. Alas, 20 bonus to str is something I can live without.

Shitblivion was an important sign of where games of this type are heading towards, but most importantly, it proved to Bethesda that their audience grows the more they dumb down the gameplay. They devolved further with Assrim, where people who loved the setting but not the mechanics and overall emptiness of the open world, expanded upon the game with an untold amounts of mods. Far more than there were for Shitblivion. Yet, it just proved to the devs that it's good to make the games very mod friendly, as it significantly cuts the amount of things they need to do. Further Fallout games show that philosophy realized.
I will never give Bethesda a single penny because of that. Not to mention their recent demake which shits all over the original by somehow being even worse, but it's not retro.

>>12812146
>still playing every bethesda release past, oresent and future

>>12810696
No it's not because, believe it or not, you actually get STRONGER as you level up, crazy idea right?
The HP scaling doesn't really kick in until you're around level 20 with some exceptions to quest related NPC's. Yes you may occasionally stumble on a enemy with a lot of HP but if you have 2 braincells you should be able to deal with it. If you just don't play the game like a retard you will be fine.
Leveled quest rewards is complete bullshit though so that is perfectly reasonable to complain about them.

>>12810758
until you realise you can wait 1hour and replenish everyones hp as many times as you want

>>12810696
That's why you choose major skills that you don't use constantly, so you can control your rate of leveling. You don't have to level unless you want to, and you can wait until you're hitting 4s and 5s in Endurance and Strength to go for a level up.

>>12793726
I played it as a kid and literally never had an issue, did a million playthroughs, these "people"who whine about how hard it is are retarded golems who should be stoned
>>12793734
fpbp

>>12795196
Yes we did, nigger.
>>12795684
Oblivion has the best quests in the series and shits all over skyrim that piece of garbage isn't even an RPG, it's a shallow "action" game with horrible guilds.

>>12798843
>>12799752
correct. Anyone that whines about oblivion is a retarded zoomoid faggot who doesn't actually know anything and gets all his opinions from youtube.

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>>12803424
>>12803379
>>12803350
>>12803350
based knower oldfriends. Whenever someone posts this image on /v/ there's a skyrimshitter who pisses his pants over it, but that was genuinely what I and everyone else thought of it at the time. Then the younger kids started posting on this site years later claiming it's a masterpiece when it was always an action game for normalniggers.

>>12810696
this is what youtube essays do to faggots lmfao

>>12813707
I wouldn't say that everything in that image is true, and I think that there's a few things which Skyrim is better at than Oblivion, though I'll concede that Oblivion is somewhat better overall as a game.