In your opinion, does RBY/gen1 do anything better than the ones that came after it?
>>12799353it had a better world. everything feels esoteric and symbolic and meaningful. in later games everything just feels tacked on because of tradition.
>>12799353i think stat experience is better than ev training. you can just grind anywhere. i mean in game it does not really matter too much. but i still felt it was a better system. if you wanted high defense you took out gravelers and geodudes. high speed diglett, special tentacool or gastly. but it also leveled all youre other stats too on top of being targeted. also all stats could be maxed out hypothetically. ive never done that before but still it makes for some interesting matches
>>12799353Not gen 1 but the Kanto region (so also frlg) has the best pokemon availability, once you get surf you can catch anything but 2 legendaries, no nonlegendary pokemon locked in the postgame or other stupid bullshit
It has the best pacing, although Silph Co and the surf from Fuschia was a bit of a slog. It felt like a kid getting mixed up in an adventure, and not some overly dramatic climactic world-ending event. Tbf, G/S did a good job of this too. Later entries are all too melodramatic and the rivals in later entries are such pussies.
>>12799353The dungeons and exploration are well-thought out, along with the general progression and atmosphere of the game. It feels more like they were trying to make an RPG rather than another Pokemon game, if that makes sense.Competitively, the simplicity is actually pretty fun. No held items or abilities to worry about, only one special stat.
Yeaeverything
>>12799353The monster design was more varied. You had the cute, the weird, but also the badass and scary. After that most things fell into the cute or weird category and the badass category progressively took a blow
>>12799353It has dungeons that don't play themselves, and call me old fashioned but I like exploring dungeons in my (J)RPGs
>>12799553>Competitively, the simplicity is actually pretty fun. No held items or abilities to worry about, only one special stat.Yeah the simplicity is a good point, but I think that peaked in G/S. Splitting special made sense.R/S introducing abilities was cool, but added a lot of complexity. EVs and IVs and natures fucking suck.
Aura
>>12799831>Splitting special made senseI agree, was a good move both competitively, and for adding more variety in Pokemon archetypes. Even for people who don't play competitively, you couldn't have interesting Pokemon like Shuckle without the special split.>EVs and IVsThese were technically in gen 1 too, though they worked a bit different. EVs didn't have to be managed though, just maxed out. There was no limit on how many points, so you could just max them out for all stats.
Fighting Red in Gen 2 was honestly really fucking cool and one of the most iconic moments in RPGs, but being able to catch Mewtwo as the post-game reward is, to me, even better. Also overall I'd say art direction but that also applies to Gen 2
>>12799574>The monster design was more varied. You had the cute, the weird, but also the badass and scary. After that most things fell into the cute or weird category and the badass category progressively took a blowFidelity got too good. Guys like Golduck and Houndoom look menacing in 8bit but just look like regular dopey animals in HD.
>>12800616To expand on Mewtwo, I think the way the game threw bits of lore on Mew and Mewtwo in the form of lab log diaries was really effective and helped create a mystery.The fact Mew is also a thing in the game was also pretty mind blowing and iconic in its own right.Again, Gen 2 did it with Celery but I see Mew as way more iconic.
>>12800619The only thing that doesnt make sense is gold duck never got slash. Seems like itd be right up his alley I coulda swore he had it. Reality is I probably gave him the move with a game shark lol.
>>12800630Gen 1 had a lot of water mons. Picking blastoise was almost a waste because of the strong and easily available alternatives.
>>>/vp/
>>12799353Hyper beam not having to recharge if it KO'd the opponent, slash crit chance and the music (when compared to the remakes).Otherwise i prefer every game after them.
It captured rural japan really well, especially with the 90s technology it was just a great aesthetic for a monster catching game. I really hated how they started incorporating other parts of the world. And I know tech improvements were inevitable, but going from bulky square computers and grungy tech to neon holograms and shit just ruins a lot of whatever "edge" early Pokemon had. It sort of reminds me of how Star Wars was vs how it is now, everything is just so sleek and shiny compared to the dirty grunge of the originals.
It's more like the Kanto region is a bit of a letdown in G/S/C after having explored it in R/B/Y, no Gen 1 legendaries and their maps, no Safari Zone, no pokemon tower, gyms/caves got neutered. Not a single thing done better in Gen 2 Kanto and it feels empty. Jotho is still fine on its own.
>>12800827Heart Gold/Soul Silver adds some of it back at least. Viridian Forest, Safari Zone, Seafoam Islands, and Cerulean Cave are all back.
>>12799353I think the pacing and difficulty is better than any of the games that came after.You can beat the whole game in the time it takes to get like four badges in the later entries. The later games have more things to do, but Gen 1 is much more dense. You get that same experience of going on a journey and seeing your Pokemon grow, but in a more compact time frame. It's probably the most enjoyable era in the series to replay because of this alone. The later games, even though they're fun in their own ways, can kinda feel like slogs after a while, while Gen 1 never does IMO.And it's still an easy game that's very appropriate as a first-ever RPG, but there are a few fights that are tricky and can be challenging, either for a new player or if you don't use items.I also appreciate that after the first couple towns the world opens up and you can go where you want and do what you want. There aren't many roadblocks, and the few that are there feel natural. Whereas the maps of later games often just feel like a straight line in disguise.The more limited movepools make TMs much more important and I think that really increases the strategic depth of the game. A lot of mediocre mons can become great with the right TMs. In later entries the movepools are so rich that TMs don't matter much.The early spinoffs like Stadium, Snap, Pinball, and TCG are also all great in their own ways, and are worth playing even for people who like those genres of games but don't necessarily care about Pokemon.This is the golden age of Pokemon, and it's not only worth experiencing, but returning to over and over.
>>12800612It wasnt like that. It used the pokemons base stats and every time you fainted one you'd get the points distributed to your pokes stats. Killing a level 50 ratata gives the same amount as a level 2. You could theoretically max all your stats by grinding your pokemon to level 50 outside of pallet town on level 2 ratatas and pidgeys. But yeah in a way it is similiar to ev training because if you target diglett all of its stats are complete shit besides speed. Its attack is like 50 its hp stat is like 10. Its defense sucks its special sucks. Its speed however is like 100. But you'd still get all the other shitty stats distributed to your mons stats. The perfect stat experience training area would probably be level 2 mewtwos and rhydons desu
>>12799553As much as i like costumization, i feel like giving pokemon 2-3 abilties was a bad play on GF's end.Like over half of the water types run Swift swim and rock types just run rocky head or sturdy (from gen 5 and beyond).
>>12799353i think it's the only one that opens up around the halfway point. also still the best designs.
>>12799353I liked that any move had a chance to miss. So it was never 100% chance of winning of losing a battle.
Gen 1 has better Pokemon availability and better TM/HMs than gen 2.
>>12800903>there are a few fights that are tricky and can be challengingThat rocket grunt in Mt Moon with the Raticate still reliably ganks a chunk of my team every time. It's early enough that you're still really limited in options so unless you grab a Geodude and start training it immediately one hyper fang will probably KO whatever you're using.
I liked the feeling of the world and the lack of a proper story, as later games offered very meh takes on very generic concepts, so it's better to just not have them
>>12800903>>12800991The open world design is still the absolute best of the series. A surprising amount of fans don’t even know this. I love the darker tone of the story and the use of sci-fi.
>>12799547>Later entries are all too melodramatic and the rivals in later entries are such pussies.the series being so melodramatic really irks me, it's like it wants to be something more than it isruby and sapphire ruined the series man
>>12800903>The later games, even though they're fun in their own waysespecially with how slow the fucking health bars move
>>12799547>surf from FuschiaEveryone at my school surfed south from Palette town. I don't think most of them realised there even was a whole dungeon between Fuchsia and Cinnabar. Doesn't help that the block pushing puzzle is a retard filter.
>>12800827Honestly it was still impressive as post-game content, like even if it was just Pallet Town it would have still be mindblowing to access the previous game area.
>>12801242Oh ya, the TMs for Bind and Water Gun right at the start. RBY really spoiled us.
>>12799553Hold items were fine when they were limited to instant-heals or small power-boosters, and nothing at all like the current insanity of modern Pokemon games.
>>12800903>In later entries the movepools are so rich that TMs don't matter much.Not really? Later games mostly have TMs being used for coverage rather than to just make the pokemon usable.Like, you no longer need to hold your Earthquake TM so Sandslash can be more than a glorified normal type.
>>12801979My point was that because you need TMs to make Pokemon good in Gen 1, it leads to interesting teambuilding decisions.Dugtrio learns Earthquake by level up, so if you use Dugtrio over Sandslash you can teach Earthquake to something else.But Sandslash can learn Swords Dance too, so it can be a sweeper. But Swords Dance is also a TM, so if you teach it to Sandslash you can't teach it to anything else.Nowadays Pokemon either learn the moves they want from level up, or they're locked behind things like events and breeding, and the nuance of things like "Sandslash and Nidoking are worse when they're used together because they both really want the same TM" is no longer present. So teambuilding is easier... and thus somewhat less interesting.
>>12802006Most people aren't going to run 2 pokemon of the same type anyway unless they focus on the dual typing, which doesn't really apply to the nidos since nobody uses them for their poison attack (lol poison sting).
>>12802006I can see the vision but it's also a double edged sword, since most of the trainers in the game only rely on level up moves, so a bunch of pokemon that are actually good for you to use end up being jokingly bad whenever the NPCs use them.This feels more like a pro for gen 2-3 (arguably 4 too) than for gen 1.
>>12799353Gen 1 felt like an RPG where your team is made up of the monsters you fight. Gen 2 really made it so you can avoid a lot of wild encounters, there's less dungeons and they're smaller. Some areas are straight up optional. Gen 2 just feels small. Gen 1 has really nice exploration too. The power plant is a brilliantly hidden area. Once you unlock surf you back track to areas and use to find a lot things.
>>12802006This is a really good point, but I think it's entirely on accident and not some thought out thing. We can think about it after the fact. Who gets Thunderbolt? Magneton? Or maybe just use a pikachu/raichu? I get what you're saying. I wish it was a semi-pathed system, but it's not designed at all. The really messed up giving every water pokemon ice moves so they can counter their counter grass. Gen 2 actually withheld blizzard from some water types, as if they were more self aware to this issue. Though later they all got ice beam in crystal, falling back that the damage was done. It's clear no one actually sat down and looked at all the movepools, TMs, and types and what really should have access to what. I think they truly just figured some pokemon can't breathe fire or use their body to slam things. Sorry Weezing, no Body Slam for you. And then as the series went on, they realized they're just making new pokemon subpar to old ones by trying to course correct. So now tons of pokemon get EQ.
>>12802187>I think they truly just figured some pokemon can't breathe fire or use their body to slam things.Gen 1 movepools are some of my favorite because of how nonsense some of them are. Rhydon? Sure, the rock dinosaur can shoot lightning and ice. The four-armed bodybuilder can breathe fire, but only the big fire and not the small one. Tauros swims as well as any fish. Snorlax learns half the special TMs because why not. Thunder, Ice Beam, Solarbeam, Fire Blast, Psychic, Surf, the sleepy fat dude is a laser arsenal.Meanwhile Scyther and Charizard can't fly, Aerodactyl can't drop rocks, Sludge is exclusive to the Weezing/Muk duo when half of Kanto is poison type. Baffling decisions or lack of decisions running through every Pokemon.
>>12802334Normal types were supposed to have insane coverage options to make up for the fact they can't do super effective damage on anything (unless you happened to be Normal/Flying, then you don't get that privilege).Similarly, Poison was intentionally designed to be bad, either to fill the role of evil jobbers (Golbat and Arbok) or to just nerf some expecific pokemon (Venusaur and Gengar).Although, i don't think every Poison mon having sludge would make them any better overall.
>>12799353Boxart.f I mean just look at it. Such a simplistic but beautiful design. Those red and blue covers are great.
>>12802386Certainly not every one and they still wouldn't be outstanding, but guys like Tentacruel or Vileplume could thematically use a bigger poison attack than Acid. A vile flower and a venomous jellyfish seem like they should be better at using their element than most that just happen to have poison stapled to them like a limiter.
>>12802476Red and Blue sells simple as.
>>12799353Perfect balance of complexity and simplicity. While I like Gen 2, day-night cycles, "friendship" meter and the like just added needless work. Also, I really couldn't be bothered remembering an extra +100 Pokemon for ever new generation.
SMT is the better monster catching RPG better and always was.The only ones that disagree are stunted manchildren afraid of any media without the edges sanded off.
>>12802506My point was more so that since it wouldn't change them GF should just have given them sludge regardless.
>>12802334Right? Onix just gets fucked in Gen 1. No fire blast, no anything really. Cause it's just a series of rocks in the shape of a snake. Soft boiled exists just for chansey. That's ridiculous in the state of pokemon now, but back then it was this move that made chansey way better and made you curiouis about the pokemon since the TM is easier to get than a chansey is.For a while water and ice were the same type, which explains why every water type gets all the ice moves. Plainly though, no one thought water having SE moves against grass was an issue. I know development for games is usually crunch time and break neck speeds, but the amount of stuff that's lasted in the series is baffling.
>>12802895Onix has terrible stats too, nothing going for it besides huge defense. Was a shame, since Onix is so cool and everybody liked it from the anime. But at least we got Steelix later.
>>12802935*and the high defense is ruined by the low hp anyway
>>12802935Onix was almost certainly made just be the first boss. Your normal moves do very little, but Squirtles bubble destroys it.
>>12802619SMT monsters designs are ugly and suck ass
>>12802603That's pretty much what I would say. Chasing the legendary Pokemon all around felt like work too. Sometimes less is more.
>>12802334>Tauros swims as well as any fishWhat? Tauros can't learn Surf.
>>12799353soul, aura, mystique, etc.
>>12802987My bad, it only learns to swim in Gold/Silver and you need to send it back through the time machine to surf on your bull in RBY.
>>12802951And that shit was not ok with Brock's rules.
>>12799353Stink
