Playing fighting games singleplayer is fun. It's like a more complex version of a Mega Man boss. Of course, it's probably not as fun as versus, but I think it's a shame that the arcade ladders are neglected so much. When I tried getting into Vampire Savior a few years ago, I downloaded Fightcade, got a Lua training script for practice mode, opened up the wiki, picked a character, and started practicing combos, and wow, what an extremely fucking unfun way to start playing a game.I was retarded about it but it stopped me from playing fighting games for a long time. Recently, though, I started playing arcade fighters the same way I'd play any other arcade game, trying to get a 1CC in the singleplayer, and it's a lot of fun! Beating Mortal Kombat this way took me 12 hours of playtime and I enjoyed most of it. I've had similar fun in Asuka 120%, Virtua Fighter 1 and 2, Fighting Vipers, and SF2 World Warrior. I'll never be good at any of these games competitively, to the extent that any of them still have people playing them competitively, but figuring out the CPUs and learning the mechanics that way is a good goal for a casual player
I prefer playing against other people, naturally, but I always enjoyed single player modes in fighting games growing up. It's always cool seeing all the different endings for the different characters.>to the extent that any of them still have people playing themYeah, there's so many fighting games with small or practically non-existent communities that you have to play single player to get any enjoyment out of many old ones.
>>12803667Generational divide, until 7th gen the default of fighting games was against the cpu, which is why in 5th/6th gen you got games like tekken 3 or SFA3 or the 6th gen MK games with deep single player modes. Because most of the time your buddy was over to play couch co op. Since MK vs DC and online play you get a shit story mode and the default is the training room all in hopes of working to a better online ranking.Couch co op will always be the most fun you can have playing a fighting game, but modern games barely offer anything outside of a ladder for single player
>>12803667Good post, and I agree.
>>12803689>Couch co op will always be the most fun you can have playing a fighting gameI'm going to quote this and emphasize it. Fighting games are MUCH more fun when they are played in a small local group of people and the measuring stick for being good is limited to that group. If you can play locally with maybe 5-8 people regularly and these people are not playing online to level up, you've got about the perfect environment to enjoy fighting games.
>>12803667>When I tried getting into Vampire Savior a few years ago, I downloaded Fightcade, got a Lua training script for practice mode, opened up the wiki, picked a character, and started practicing combos, and wow, what an extremely fucking unfun way to start playing a game. Yeah no shit moron, you start playing by getting into matches. if you're scared of an ass whipping just get one of your dork friends to mash buttons with you until you no longer fear losing with zero stakes on the line and can play real players.
This guy has been making this thread over and over for years now. Why is 4chan like this now? Why would I want to talk to some idiot making the worst threads possible every day for years on end?
>>12803848Yeah imagine you could be posting in the>actually the DC is awesome threadOr the>what killed the DC thread Or even >what killed the Saturn thread
>>12803728Fighting games are absolutely best enjoyed in the physical company of other people, but having a small group of button mashers doesn't compare one bit to a local scene of people all trying to get better at the game together.You have not experienced the peak fun of fighting games unless you and your opponent have reached a level of competence and ease with the game that enables deep mindgames, and you both appreciate sick shit happening on screen and get hype about it regardless of who's doing it to who.
>>12803667Agree OPMy most played fighting game as a kid was probably Street Fighter Alpha 3 world tour mode, followed by Tekken 3 and all its minigames.Playing with friends is better but they werent aways there or wanted to play the same games, so single player was great.
>>12803667Very good, OP.Only golems see a hobby and think "how can I do this thing against other people?" They're not concerned with enjoyment, constantly seeking validation by competing, like animals scared of starving to death.
>>12803975>Only golems see a hobby and think "how can I do this thing against other people?"That's one way to cope.
>>12803981Do you also compete with other people to see who can read a book the fastest, assuming you read at all?
>>12803990Yes.
>>12803975cope. fighting games are most fun when played against other human beings who are at a similar level of skill to you. playing against the AI is a static challenge, and I gather midwits really enjoy that kind of thing, but I find it boring.
>>12803990>oh you like to compete in this activity that is designed from the ground up to be inherently competitive?>well what about this other activity with no competitive dimension whatsoever?even if you're just trolling you're retarded.
>>12803975Well, the singleplayer of fighting games could be competitive, just in a different way from versus play. All arcade games have a competitive element because there's scoring and a leaderboard. If you had some buddies and you all really liked one particular game, not only could you fight against one another, but if the game's singleplayer is good enough to support it, you could compete for the best score or time in the arcade ladder whenever you're not actively playing the game with each other. That's an underappreciated form of competition that doesn't seem to exist anymore outside of the shmup community, but isn't there potential there for other genres like fighting games?>>12804058Most games are "static challenges". Do you never play any singleplayer games? Can a game not have a high-quality static challenge in addition to and supplementing the "dynamic challenge" of versus multiplayer? This isn't an either or situation.
>>12803667You can learn the basics by playing SP; people used to do 1CC runs, too. There’s this revisionist narrative going around, mostly from sponsored players, claiming that single-player didn’t mean anything, when that’s a lie. Why do people still fall for this? People have this tendency to engage in hero worship, you know. Jwong is the only nigga who isn’t going along with this “SP didn’t mean anything” nonsense. He’s the only honest “oldhead.”
>>12803920Did I say button mashers? I did not. You're just restating my own point.
>>12804061>>12804058>Please take this particular type of hobby as seriously as actual sportsPay some fucking taxes, faggot.
>>12804061>>oh you like to compete in this activity that is designed from the ground up to be inherently competitive?The earliest fighting games were all singleplayer and the very concept of the genre was inspired by boss fights in singleplayer games. So, the genre was actually designed from the ground up to be singleplayer. To say otherwise is an anachronism.
fighting games are fundamentally designed differently than other single player mechanics. their mechanics are fundamentally biased towards the rock paper scissors intrigue of another human. when you remove that they're kind of shallow and cheesy. in other words people have an insight/critique that you can't handwave back to the mean, authority.
>>12803667Fightas were always meant for casual play between friends or people at your local arcade. Constant online play and ladders/ranking beyond your local machines high score board, are unnatural.
>>12804158>fighting games are fundamentally designed differently than other single player mechanics. their mechanics are fundamentally biased towards the rock paper scissors intrigue of another human. when you remove that they're kind of shallow and cheesy.Explain how.
>>12803667Based, I completely agree
The first tourneyfag game
In regards to singleplayer content in fighting games, developers really have the totally wrong idea. A story mode is something you play once and then probably never touch again, especially if the story's bad (no fighting game really has a good story). The SF6 world tour mode adds very little to that game in terms of lasting value. I would rather see more advanced CPU design, scoring systems, really tough singleplayer challenges, etc. Kaiser Knuckle is known as kusoge but I think it's somewhat cool and interesting that the final boss is so difficult that it took 20 years for anybody to beat it (to public knowledge). Put Mortal Kombat endurance rounds in everything. Just beat the player over the head. I love that stuff. I haven't played any SNK games yet but I'm HYPED to play Fatal Fury after I'm done with Mortal Kombat 2 (with Liu Kang, meaning no jump exploit, total rape mode).
>>12803920No beating my high school buddy at marvel superheroes vs street fighter when we were roommates in my 20s was the pinnacle. It’s all about the contempt that familiarity breeds
>>12804441eh it's kind of a cheap thrill. someone who doesn't regularly play has zero chance of beating you, it's not even a competition. I beat a loud mouth prick at a party in sf and it was basically me masturbating to myself against a game no one in the room has seriously played.
>>12803667This is how I felt and still feel about Melee. I got a lot out of adventure mode and event matches as a kid and didn't even know about all the sweaty tryhards playing this party game competitively with the items turned off until I got to college. I'm basically never able to discuss this game in the sense of how I perceived it with others because all anyone cares about is the competitive bullshit.
>>12804453>someone who doesn’t regularly playMy buddy and I played the game h2h for dozens of hours anon
Playing fighting games single player is fun.If you're into it you should also check out the forgotten genre of single-player-only fighting games like Kyuukyoku Sentai DaDanDaan (AKA Monster Maulers).
>>12805120Dadandaaaaaaaarn!https://youtu.be/ehRuGj8JjXkMetamoqester is also pretty cool and so is Warzard.
>>12805120>>12805134I've had Red Earth on my list, and I will now add Monster Maulers and Metamoqester
>>12804117I pay more in taxes than you do. I guarantee it. I also try to be the best I can possibly be at any hobby I deem worth my time. This upsets you because you're the other kind of person.>>12804119Modern day fighting games all draw heavily on the DNA of Street Fighter II which was expressly built to be a more 2-player optimized product than any of its predecessors.
>>12804354When you fight another human being you are fighting against an opponent that adapts dynamically to the situation at hand, and you can exploit this adaptive process to bait, mix up, and generally outwit the opponent.CPU opponents are comparatively shallow conditional scripts tied to input reading. As such, they are piss-easy to exploit. Their lack of layered, dynamic adaptation compared to a skilled human opponent leaves the vs. CPU mode a faint shadow of the fuller, richer vs. 2P experience.
>>12804441If you go to the same place to play the same people every week, guess what? You become familiar with those people. You've put a toe in the shallow end at best. You have no idea how satisfying fighting games can actually be.
It was hard for programmers to come up with good AI for fighting games. In some Capcom games, for instance, and many others as well, the code 'peeks' at your moves and hints the computer's battle program based on that input. It's cheap. But with very limited CPU it'd be hard for them not to do this.
>>12805629You said many CPU opponents are too exploitable and that CPUs aren't as dynamic as human players. You did not argue why the systems of fighting games are necessarily and fundamentally different enough from platformers, shmups, beat 'em ups, etc, to preclude fighting game singleplayer modes from being good and fun. I suspect that you're not actually capable of evaluating their mechanics on such a level.>>12805632Not everybody is going into the deep end. It's perfectly fine that you do, and it's great that these games support that high level of play. But not everybody is going to reach that high level of play. If an entire genre is almost completely dedicated to the people who are swimming to the deep end, then either that genre will forever be niche or, what's actually happening, developers will continue to make that deep end shallower and shallower so that more people can be included and they can garner a larger audience; if everyone's a tourneyfag, nobody is. So I appreciate your passion about competitive play, but it's destructive to assert that everything else is illegitimate.>>12805651It seems intuitive that CPUs should do their best to closely imitate the experience of facing a human opponent; but, in the abstract, is that really true? What is actually wrong with the CPUs reading your inputs? Doesn't that create its own kind of challenge? It's always just asserted that it's "cheap" with no further argument. It's like saying it's "cheap" that Flash Man jumps every time you shoot in Mega Man 2. If we accept that the CPU is incapable of providing the same kind of challenge as a human player, as was inarguably true in the 90s and may still be true even now, then there's no problem; the experience of fighting the CPUs is a completely separate one from fighting players, with different expectations. The input-reading, predictable CPU and the dynamic, unpredictable human opponent can exist simultaneously within the same game, and both can be valuable.
>>12805669>You said many CPU opponents are too exploitable and that CPUs aren't as dynamic as human players. You did not argue why the systems of fighting games are necessarily and fundamentally different enough from platformers, shmups, beat 'em ups, etc, to preclude fighting game singleplayer modes from being good and funIf you don't immediately see how they're the same thing, you're too ignorant and/or retarded to understand anything that's being talked about here.
>>12805669>it's destructive to assert that everything else is illegitimate. good thing zero people did that.
>>12805669>Doesn't that create its own kind of challenge?yes - a static piss-easy one
>>12805672They're not the same thing. CPU opponents don't have to be as dynamic as human players. Nobody's saying that the singleplayer is going to be as strong as the versus. I'm arguing that the singleplayer can be as good as other singleplayer games. You've said nothing to address that claim. I'm begging you to maybe think at a bit of a higher level here.>>12805675Maybe nobody has explicitly done so in this thread, but people on this board certainly have, many times. So, in that environment, if your reply to praise of couch coop with friends is "that doesn't compare at all to playing in your local tourney", then it's very easy to infer where you're coming from. And, of course, many personalities outside of this board and website have said only online play matters.>>12805683OK. Every singleplayer game is static and piss-easy. Ghosts 'n Goblins? Final Fight? Every shmup ever made? Every CRPG? You must've beat all those in your sleep, I'm sure. If DoDonPachi doesn't have player 2 controlling the bullets then is it even harder than Super Mario World bro?
>>12805689>I'm arguing that the singleplayer can be as good as other singleplayer games. No. The challenge isn't deep enough against a CPU. It would be like playing a shmup where all the enemies come down one lane and have the same shot pattern, compared to how shmups actually are.You don't really understand fighting games if you're having this much trouble understanding this.
I agree that playing with other people can be more fun, but I also must admit that I have never had a CPU opponent in a fighting game get mad and throw my controller at my window when they lose.
>>12805689>if your reply to praise of couch coop with friends is "that doesn't compare at all to playing in your local tourney"First of all, it simply doesn't. That's just a fact.Second, I didn't say anything about tournies. I said locals. As in, getting together in the real world with other human beings who all share a desire to play the game and get better. Sometimes that means there's a bracket, sometimes it doesn't. Even when there is a bracket, the focus is on getting games with people whether it's tournament or not. I've easily played two or three orders of magnitude more matches in casuals than in bracket over my time going to my locals.Fighting game locals are essentially the same as couch co-op only with a larger group of people and a shared motivation to get good at the game and help others get better so you can all have more fun playing it. If you take issue with the statement that locals blow mashing buttons at your house with some buddies who don't even play out of the water, it's because you don't know what you're talking about.Respectfully, it's painfully apparent that you in fact don't know what you're talking about with regards to fighting games. Your best move is to shut up and stop making a fool of yourself. Respectfully.
>>12805705I've never had that happen with a single human opponent, ever. You might consider making better friends.
>>12805702Then explain it to me. Use your words. I already said that I'm a newcomer to fighting games. So, as a supposedly experienced player with a deep understanding of the genre, tell me how the challenge isn't deep enough.>>12805709Nothing in this sad post addresses anything I actually said. Locals and tourneys are different? Alright. Means literally nothing. Addresses literally nothing I've said in a substantive way. "You don't know what you're talking about. Shut up." I understand what I'm talking about better than you understand anything. You are a mindless golem who has done nothing but vomit out personal experiences and is apparently incapable of actually reading and understanding anything that anybody else is saying.
>>12803728fine if you're a shitter playing with other shitters i guessif you have a brain and the slightest ounce of competitive spirit then this situation quickly turns into you effortlessly stomping your friends and no one is having funthe best way to play competitive multiplayer games is by playing against people at your skill level and if you're not retarded, the only real way that's happening these days is online
>>12805716I have explained it to you. You seem to lack the capacity to understand the explanation.If you do not immediately see the challenge and depth afforded by two human minds trying to model each other in order to predict and counter each others' actions (and further modeling each others' model of their own model, on and on until recursive capacity is exhausted), and if you do not immediately see how that cannot be replicated by conditional code based on input reading, you are almost certainly severely autistic and this is simply something you will never be capable of understanding.
>>12805716>Nothing in this sad post addresses anything I actually said.You're trying to claim that because I value locals over mashing with people who don't play, that "it's easy to infer" that I'm coming from some mindset that holds tournament play as supreme and all other forms of play as "illegitimate" (your own choice of words, not mine). I illustrated for you that such is not the case in exceedingly clear terms, and you somehow still misinterpreted what I said as "locals and tournaments are different". I didn't read the rest of your post, but my eyes caught the word "golem" on the way past it, so you've pretty much confirmed that you're a buzzword spouting know-nothing who isn't worth interacting with further.Remain wrong and confused. Die that way. No skin off my nose.
>>12805785Are you trolling or are you just this retarded? How many times must I repeat myself? Nobody is saying that CPUs replicate versus play. Read the entirety of this >>12805669 post or don't waste my time with another reply.>>12805793Good. Never reply to me ever again.
>>12805710Unfortunately, it was my sister.
>>12803667MK fucking sucks for single player like 90 percent of your moves are useless against ai only whatever two cheese moves your character has are usable. I think Tekken does ai the best with their imput recording mechanic where it punishes any move you over use 100% of the time so it forces you to use all the moves even the shit ones.
I wonder why this conversation only seems to happen with fighting games. I've never heard anyone say that you should just skip the single player in Halo or Puyo Puyo or Starcraft or F-Zero because versus mode is all that matters.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7yy-SjW7yQ0I'd like to direct your attention to this channel. It's dedicated to playing the Ranking Mode of the Saturn ports of Virtua Fighter. He's gotten the Master rank with each character on both versions of the game. He can get a perfect clear every opponent and beat the game in under 3 minutes. If you've played the game, it's really impressive. I've got a bit over 20 hours in the game and the best score I've managed to achieve is 776, about 150 points short of the Master rank. The channel author's knowledge and execution is incredible.Nobody today is playing Virtua Fighter 1 competitively; especially not the Saturn ports. But look at this guy. He must really love this game. Virtua Fighter's Ranking Mode is a gamemode that brings some of Virtua Fighter's famously high skill ceiling in versus to the singleplayer. Of course, the skill set is different. A lot of it is CPU knowledge. If this channel author played VF5 competitively, he might not do so well (although he'd probably do OK; his execution is very good if his videos are semi-demonstrative of his consistent performance). But isn't this cool in its own way?
>>12805803Your argument shifts with every post so you can't really blame anyone else for not understanding what you're asking.Any possible non-retarded meaning you could possibly have had with your questions has already been answered anyway. Work on your communication skills maybe.
>>12805846I hope a nigger throws a brick at your head.
>>12805826the difference is that single player in those games aren't pale imitations of the multiplayer experience. Halo is the only one that's really all that different between the two and they're both still fun.if you enjoy just mashing buttons and seeing shit happen on screen then solo fighting games are fine. The real experience that causes people to get addicted and become turbo FG autists is exclusively found in 2P play though. It's a genre built around mindgames and a CPU opponent can't really engage in those to any deep or satisfying level.
>>12805848Maybe work on your weird rage issues too. And you might consider a break from this website in particular, for a good long time, before that nasty case of chanbrain you've got becomes terminal.
>>12805823Mortal Kombat 1(992) actually has a similar mechanic to what you describe. (MK2 also has this but it's less obvious because its CPUs are a bit too aggressively tuned.) Give me a minute and I'll make a webm to demonstrate.
>>12805857at highest difficulty MK CPUS have canned responses to specific inputs. all lower difficulties just add a bit of dice roll to whether it does the optimal response or a lesser one.this makes it highly exploitable. in UMK3 you can pick smoke or sektor, jump back to force the computer to use a special move, then do teleport punch to punish. rinse repeat and that's most of the game.wow so fun. fighting the CPU is an amazing experience, so cool.
>>12805826It's largely because the loudest voices in the FGC who kept the scene alive and had the most influence, at least in the US were urban asian/black kids. There's a lot of FGC history out there in the pre-online days of hustlers/scammers, shit talk, gambling problems, money matches, etc...
>>12805892Zoomers keep their mouth shut about things they never experienced challenge (impossible)
>>12805823>>12805857Look at how Scorpion reacts to my projectiles. First, he just gets hit by the fireball; afterwards, he throws his own, but he probably would have ducked or blocked the fireball had he not done that. Then, he consistently starts jumping over the fireballs to jump kick me; throwing fireballs at this point is useless. Projectiles make this really obvious, but it's also true for sweeps, jabs, etc; CPUs in MK1 don't have strong anti-air options so they don't usually counter-attack your jump-ins (this was very strongly addressed in MK2), but they'll start blocking it. The only attack CPUs will consistently eat is the roundhouse kick (again, addressed in MK2), but getting them to take it requires fairly precise timing and it won't work on Goro due to his lack of knockback. For his counter to projectiles, since Goro lacks a traditional jump, he'll always choose to shoot his own projectile; since his does so much damage, trading in this way is bad for the player unless you've already established a strong health lead, in which case it's a sure victory.There's at least one boss in Mortal Kombat Mythologies: Sub-Zero which formalizes the "CPUs start blocking each move you use" design, which tells me that this was very intentional from Midway. I think it's actually pretty cool if you notice it, though it's not really as strong in MK2 (though it's still there and still useful if playing a character who lacks the ability to perform the jump exploit).>>12805883I haven't played UMK3, but, yes, these games are old and have unfortunate exploits. What can you do? That stuff could be patched if they came out today. For MK2, at least, I believe the ROM hack MK2 Plus has an "improved AI" mode that fixes that game's exploits.https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8ZZo55DicSc
>>12805927Your experiences aren't valuable to anyone. Nobody cares about your faggot life.
>>12805940all CPUs in fighting games are exploitable. they don't adapt, they don't anticipate, they can't condition or be conditioned.as said earlier, if you just like mashing buttons ans seeing shit happen on screen CPUs are acceptable. if you want interactions deeper than a puddle, you need another human being.
>>12805942Zoomers resist the urge to have a meltie when someone points out they don't know what they're talking about challenge (impossible)
>>12805943This is less an actual argument you're making and more a religious dogma that you're repeating uncritically.
>>12805826Part of it is that fighting game singleplayer modes have historically been worse than in some of the games you've mentioned, especially shooters, but a greater part of it is the stultifying effect e-celebs and "critics" have on discussion of video games. This is simply one manifestation of that effect that affects fighting games.
>>12805943Well they do adapt like I said they record what you're doing and punish for overusing moves. It's just earlier MK games don't really have a big enough moveset to play through the whole ladder with one character. The same way you can in later entries.
>>12805980that's not what's meant by the word adaptation in the context of fighting games.I will never understand why you fools who don't even play fighting games are so fond on speaking about them like you know anything about them when you very obviously don't have the first clue.
>>12805984Why don't you tell him what adaptation means, then? You're so insufferable, you and the other faggots in this thread. You just assert that you know more than other people. There's no discussion. Why bother posting such useless drivel? Just die.
>>12805826fighting games are way smaller in scope and their strong points just aren't that great with cpus. There's a ton of variety and potential approaches with fps which is why it's easier to build solid campaigns for them. Not so much with fighting games. If we're really being honest the genre straight up hasn't innovated much since sf2 or vf/tekken. Sure there are more systems/gauges/gimmicks and whatnot but it's all still within the narrow frame. Hilariously something like smash bros was a true blue innovation that greatly enhanced the scope of what a fighting game could be but it causes an endless shitstorm for some reason
BWOOOOOOOOONGTEST. YOUR MIGHT.*SMACK Smack smack smack*TEST. YOUR MIGHT.BZZZ BZZZZTEST. YOUR MIGHT.*SMACK Smack smack smack*TEST. YOUR MIGHT.MORTAL KOMBAAAAAAAAT
Aren't the CPUs in VF4 Quest Mode based on real expert VF players? I've seen some VF players say that Quest Mode helped them start playing that game competitively.
>>12805984M8 I literally beat Jinpachi Tekken 5 ps2 on Ultra Hard with fucking back grabs of all things because of my knowledge stfu dude I know my way around ai dude I'm like fucking mega autstim supreme with this shit. When I was a kid and I wasn't gaming I was walking in circles talking to myself I am like fucking crazy good at Tekken 5 you don't even know Anon I'm like a TAS run in real life but like super autistic you jerk.
>>12805996I do know more than pretty much all of you about fighting games. Nobody comes here to be educated, though, so it's a waste of my time to bother with that. I'm just going to call you ignorant motherfuckers out on your ignorance so that you know someone who actually knows what they're talking about sees that you don't.Fighting game threads on this board are trash and all you ignorant motherfuckers spouting off confidently from a place of zero knowledge are the reason why.
>>12803667In a fighting game If you didn't beat the single player you didn't beat the game
>>12805980That's one tiny aspect of adaptation. Do they learn your habits in knockdown situations? In neutral? Do they make predictions and pre-emptively counter? Do they modify their internal model of what you're going to do next as new information is revealed and the second-order implications of that information come into focus?The answer to all of these questions is no. They have scripted conditional responses to what they read in your inputs as they happen. It's a shallow mimicry of how a human being would play, covering only a tiny portion of the kind of behavior a human opponent would show.If you need any of this explained to you whatosever - that is to say, if it isn't immediately apparent with the slightest thought on your part - you are DEFINITELY autistic.
>>12805940>scorpion throws his own fireballHey zoomie
>>12805853>>12805943>If you enjoy just mashing buttonsI think it's a little sad that your opinion of fighting games is so low that you imagine without another person playing they're essentially the digital equivalent of jingle keys.Have you never enjoyed the story of a fighting game? Never felt something when you saw a character's ending?Never cleared that one combo challenge that seemed impossible? Never discovered something in training mode that made you feel like a genius for figuring it out?Never gone for a 1cc, and felt the tension of losing a first round, knowing that one more mistake means it's all over... then, finally, after so many attempts, landing that one last hit on the final boss and shouting in triumph, before grabbing your controller to plug in your initials by the high score with that pretty round zero at the end?Can you not imagine why a person might enjoy one of those things?
>>12806571
>>12806424Nobody thinks that you know what you're talking about. I have less than 50 hours total in the fighting game genre and I already understand it more than you. You don't understand anything because you're subhuman. This is obvious to any outside observer reading this thread.
>>12806642>without another person playing they're essentially the digital equivalent of jingle keys. this is accurate.>Have you never enjoyed the story of a fighting game? not really, they're basically all garbage excuse plots>Never cleared that one combo challenge that seemed impossible? Never discovered something in training mode that made you feel like a genius for figuring it out? in the service of getting better at playing other human beings, yes. not as an end in itself.>Can you not imagine why a person might enjoy one of those things?I can imagine why some people enjoy shallow static challenges. They're just not for me.
>>12806675Whatever you gotta tell yourself, zoomie.
>>12806675>GRR NO I JUST RIGHT U JUST WRONG EVERYBODY KNOW IT U NOT HUMAN GRRRRRlol. When you calm down from that meltie you're having, maybe seek help for your emotional issues. Then go ahead and explain exactly what I've said that is incorrect. Failure to do so is concession, which I accept in advance.
>>12806675It's embarrassing how zoomies can't stand on their own opinions. They always have to imply or outright state that "everyone" shares their view. It's like they don't have the stones to believe something regardless of who agrees with it. Cuck behavior really. I'm glad I'm going to be dead before too many zoom zooms hold the reins of power. The world they make will be quite grim.
>>12806765I'm also glad you're going to be dead.
>>12806772Yeah yeah you're super upset and raging out, we get it. Go do something else until your meltie has concluded.
>>12806046first person slashers are literally way better than traditional fighting games but they aren't /vr/ so yeah. So much more control over everything you do and no iframes or hyperarmor, all dodges are real dodges all hits carry extreme weight to the match. Somehow with over 60 players in a match, the gameplay is also less laggy than Tokon. Canadians beat Japan at fightan.
>>12805771>I like playing people I can’t see while I hide in my basementIncel shit lol
>>12806704So, you just don't appreciate any of the artistry and effort displayed by the developers. You have no respect for the medium or the creators. All that matters is your negro meta
>>12806549no you are confused the point is the game reads every imput and it will allow you to hit them if you constantly use more moves>yeah but it's not like a real playerwell yeah it's a retro game....
>>12803667Same. I grew up as the only boy in my family with all sisters, and none of them played video games after the age of 6. Playing Tekken 5 ghost battle for hours by myself, and ranking up is more fun to me then hopping online going against someone that curbstomps me.
>>12807139The "artistry and effort displayed by the devvelopers" is on full display when playing against another person, and I fully appreciate it. You're pissing yourself over some backhanded shit the devs slapped together to satisfy friendless losers who can't understand the concept of a game without at least a barebones, paper-thin plot.
>>12807228I'm not confused. I understand such simple ideas perfectly well. The point is that what you're describing is not what is actually meant by "adaptation" in this context.A CPU will not condition you or be conditioned. It will not bait you or fall for bait, nor feign bait or see through your own deception. CPU opponents are incapable of the kind of complex mindgaming that give fighting games their true depth. You must have a human opponent for that.
>>12807281No, you don't fully appreciate it and your inability to actually articulate anything beyond "it just is" is proof of that. Programming CPU opponents was extremely hard, it's not something you slap together. In an arcade game, it's crucial that the developers balance things correctly or the venues won't consistently profit. There's no noteworthy arcade fighting game in which it's evident that the developers share your contempt for singleplayer. There's no multiplayer-exclusive arcade fighting game that I know of, but there are multiple games that are all but singleplayer-exclusive. Your mindset is alien to the people who actually made these games and you have nothing to say against that except the naked assertion that a CPU fighting game opponent is somehow equivalent to a shmup where all the enemies come down one lane and have the same shot pattern (how?).In a modern fighting game landscape where every new game is focused on online play and where there's universal respect for the genre's capacity for competitive play, there's no apparent reason for anyone to have your mindless contempt for singleplayer except maybe being mindraped by internet arguments.
>>12807328>No, you don't fully appreciate it Yes I do>Programming CPU opponents was extremely hard, it's not something you slap togetherThat's literally what they did though lol>it's crucial that the developers balance thingsyes, for 2P play>your contempt for singleplayer.I just said it's not for me dog, that's hardly "contempt". what is this zoomer fascination with assuming maximum emotional charge in every statement? you know that any perceived tone in text you read is coming mostly from your own mind, right? are you so naive that you haven't realized that much yet?>there are multiple games that are all but singleplayer-exclusiveI mean, post SF2 there's like... Red Earth? pre SF2 we're not even talking about the same genre of games.>a CPU fighting game opponent is somehow equivalent to a shmup where all the enemies come down one lane and have the same shot pattern (how?). If you really need it explained to you how foghting another human being is vastly more complex and deep than fighting a simple conditional script hooked up to an input reader, you're definitely autistic and you wouldn't understand the explanation anyway. which is probably why you're acting like I haven't given one despite doing so many times in this thread.Enjoy your shitty ending cutscenes I guess? I'll do myself the favor of enjoying the game to its fullest extent, which doesn't really include the static challenge of beating up on a simple bot that can't surprise me.
>>12807374>That's literally what they did though lolhttps://shmuplations.com/streetfighterii/Read this interview and see how wrong you are.>yes, for 2P playNope! Read the interview.>I mean, post SF2 there's like... Red Earth?Yes, that's one, and there's also Monster Maulers and Metamoqester. That's 3 examples while you have precisely 0.>If you really need it explained to you how foghting another human being is vastly more complex and deep than fighting a simple conditional script hooked up to an input readerDo shmups actually have a little dwarf hiding inside the arcade that controls the enemies? That would be the only possible way that what you're saying to me is at all a coherent reply.
>>12807393>here's a link to a developer talking about a bunch of irrelevant shit that doesn't actually support anything i've saidhey alright>Monster Maulers and Metamoqesternever in my life heard of either of these off-brand titles, meanwhile I could name 2 dozen 90s fighters off dome that aren't single-player focused.>you provided 0 examples of a category of games I made up that you never mentioned even onceyeah funny how that works>let me close my post by proving that I don't understand analogies due to my extremely rigid mode of thinking, further supporting the case that I am autistichey cool.I'm in a charitable mood so I'll explain it to you. If we take the normal mode of operation of DoDonPachi as its maximum complexity, and imagine a version of it with enemies coming down a single lane with a single shot pattern as a very simple version of the game, this maps perfectly onto playing fighting games against another human being (complex) or against a conditional script hooked up to an input reader (simple).Again, if you do not immediately, without even having to stop and think about it, see how fighting another human being is far more complex than fighting a CPU, you are autistic, and you will never understand this. To people like you, the workings of another human mind is a complete mystery, so compared to a CPU, they are equally inscrutable. As a second order effect, you probably suck ass at fighting games because you're incapable of the kind of recursive mind modeling that goes into any competitive activity where deception is a key skill.
>>12804385for me? it's chess kombat!
>>12807413>>here's a link to a developer talking about a bunch of irrelevant shit that doesn't actually support anything i've said>hey alrightThe interview quite clearly demonstrates the importance the developers placed on implementing and balancing the CPU opponents.>If we take the normal mode of operation of DoDonPachi as its maximum complexity, and imagine a version of it with enemies coming down a single lane with a single shot pattern as a very simple version of the game, this maps perfectly onto playing fighting games against another human being (complex) or against a conditional script hooked up to an input reader (simple).You're so retarded. Everybody knows that playing against a human is more complex than playing against a CPU. That's not the point. It's been said a hundred times but you're just too dense to understand. I'm not comparing VS CPU to VS Player. I'm comparing the arcade modes of fighting games to other singleplayer games, especially arcade games. That's why shmups were mentioned at all. Whether the singleplayer is as good as the multiplayer has absolutely nothing to do with the point. You don't even know what's being argued even though it was stated very plainly ad nauseam. You just want to excrete your uninformed stream of consciousness out into the world. Do the systems of fighting games preclude them from being capable of providing singleplayer experiences that are comparable in quality to singleplayer/PvE genres like beat 'em ups, shmups, platformers, etc, and if so, why? That's the question that was asked.
>>12807458>That's not the point. That's literally the entire point lolSome people prefer simple static challenges, I don't.If you've been having some other argument this whole time, that's nothing to do with me
>>12807461You admit that you're completely incapable of providing anything to any kind of discussion that rises above the level of what your favorite flavor of ice cream is. If so, please preface your future posts with this disclaimer so that nobody ever again makes the mistake of attempting to actually engage with you in an argument.
>>12807472>grr u not having the argument i wanted to have grrrrsorry bout your luck?
>>12805892Asian yes.Black no.The black influence in the FGC is very overstated. Look at photos of any tournament. Plenty of brown people, but how many are actually "black", and how many are some variety of other POC?
>>12807481They all talk like blacks so it doesn't make much of a difference whether they're from Ghana or the Dominican Republic.
Look at this photo of the Evo 2026 crowd. Actual black people are a minority of attendees. >but anon that's because black people can't afford to go to EvoMaybe so, but that means they aren't as strongly represented in the FGC for that very reason. >but anon, if you posted a photo of an older Evo there would be more black peopleNot really. >but anon, if you posted a photo of an old Final Round or ECC there would be majority black people.Possibly, especially Final Round, but these are just two majors among many, and the other majors would not have that majority of black attendees.
>>12807490>I like to count the black people in photosWhat a life
>>12807486All the white guys at a tournament also talk like "blacks". It's the vernacular of the American youth, and a good portion of it is done semi-ironically. They code-switch at will, and certainly don't speak this way at home with their families.
>>12807494>what is identity politicsHave you been living under a rock since 2008?
>>12807490Evo hasn't been a true grassroots tournament for the better part of a decade now. It's corporatized esports slop. A tourist attraction. Most of the people in that picture didn't enter a single game themselves, I guarantee it.Find a picture of Final Round or Texas Showdown or some other major that still has at least a passing link to grassroots organizing.
>>12807498>I proudly and unironically engage in identity politicsthis is like a bull announcing with satisfaction that it chases the red cape
>>12803667I agree fundamentally but MK is a bad example because it's typical 90's Midway arcade bullshit where the AI outright cheats on higher difficulties to make as much money as possible.
>>12807578that's all fighting games in the 90s really. MK was egregious about it but a CPU Guile can flash kick from standing or walk forward sonic boom.SNK just made their bosses impossibly OP
>>12807578In MK1, I don't think the CPU "cheating" is that bad. Like I talked about in an earlier post (>>12805940), they'll always eat at least one of your attacks. After I figured the game out, when I play it and lose, I never feel like I was placed into an unwinnable situation. I've felt the same about MK2, a game whose arcade mode I've enjoyed greatly (I managed to get all the way to Kintaro on a single credit twice today after hours of not even being able to get to Shang Tsung, very satisfying!), although its CPUs are definitely more frustrating than MK1 (even someone as tolerant of unfairness as me gets pissed off when I get thrown while my fist is in the opponent's face). That being said, though, I've only really played as Liu Kang so far, and he has options for dealing with the CPUs that other characters don't. For example, they can really shred your health bar if you're caught in the corner, but Liu Kang can escape the corner with his flying kick. Maybe I would feel like some things were unwinnable if I were playing another character. That definitely makes my evaluation of these games very incomplete, but these are just my impressions so far.I've enjoyed Mortal Kombat's singleplayer much more than Virtua Fighter 1, whose CPUs are too easy (that game also just lacks a lot of presentation sauce in its singleplayer, certainly a game where more of the meat is in versus), and definitely more than World Warrior. World Warrior feels kind of sluggish; Mortal Kombat's pace is a lot faster in comparison because of how much damage all your attacks do. I love how rounds can end in 10 seconds, that really suits itself to singleplayer because it's fun to efficiently shred an opponent but you're still only a few bad moves away from losing a round which retains some tension.
>>12807458The singleplayer modes of fighting games are dogshit compared to the singleplayer modes of other genres. The true depth of the game is found in Vs. play. If you're going to make a fair comparison between SF2 and a shmup or some shit, you have to be talking about 2-player SF2. Otherwise you're comparing the fully realized vision of the shmup with an anemic imitation of what SF2 is capable of being.You probably are autistic. Your thinking is extremely inflexible, concrete, and based on simple one-to-one equivalencies, regardless of whether they make for useful comparisons. You show little to no ability to think abstractly.
>>12807598>openly admitting to playing MK2 singleplayer for hourswew lad
>>12807498>yes I’m just as dumb as you think I amWell I’m not surprised but good on you for just coming out and saying it
>>12807601I already decided to not engage with you because you're so hopelessly retarded, so why are you continuing to reply to me? There's nothing in this reply that warrants a response. Continue parroting your empty assertions if you want, but don't expect another (You) till you've got something better.
>>12807601>The singleplayer modes of fighting games are dogshit compared to the singleplayer modes of other genres.If you’re talking retro than I mostly agree but games like SFA3/Tekken 3 and soul blade (as well as 6th gen MK) were an exception to the rule. If you’re talking modern gaming I’d say shit single player in fighting is 1:1 as shit as single player in modern FPS
>>12807604Mortal Kombat 2 is a historically significant game, being one of the last hit American arcade games and one of the most famous entries in the fighting game genre, so I couldn't consider myself well-informed until I've beaten it (and other noteworthy games) to my standard (1CC).
>>12807621I've heard that Dead or Alive and Virtua Fighter have great CPUs while Tekken's are terrible.
>>12807458>Do the systems of fighting games preclude them from being capable of providing singleplayer experiences that are comparable in quality to singleplayer/PvE genres like beat 'em ups, shmups, platformers, etc, and if so, why? That's the question that was asked.It's been answered multiple times in this thread already.
>>12807621>SFA3/Tekken 3 yes, but with the caveat that they were only that way on their playstation ports
>>12807613That was my first post in this thread. That said, seeing as you're conceding and all, I accept.
>>12807613>I can't counter anything he's saying so I'll just pretend I'm too above it to replyit is zero people's first day on 4chan here, nobody is fooled.
>>12807667I appreciate that not everyone's going to give an in-depth answer, but my position in the OP and other posts in this thread hasn't been seriously challenged by anyone who disagrees with me. That's disappointing because there are real objections you could form against the points I've brought up but it's just "versus is better" and "you are a zoomer". Low IQ stuff
>>12807670>yes, but with the caveat that they were only that way on their playstation portsNo shit girlcock. They also manufactured 35k tekken arcade machines versus 8 million tekken 3 discs. None of this thread is discussing playing fighting games alone in the arcade you faggot retard
Zoomer here when I played Deception at the age of seven I wished Mileena was my mother.>inb4 stop blog postingNo this thread is already gay as fuck and pointless might as well fag it up more.
>>12807925I like her nose here. She's beautifully ugly
>>12806046Why in the FUCK would they include Alpha in there
>>12807909You should work on your weird rage issues. >>12807706Your question has been answered repeatedly and in-depth.
