how are you normally supposed to know how to open the entrance to this dungeon without guessing?
There's a hint in a house in the village in the light world.
>>12844479I knew something was here because there was an NPC that told me so, which was enough for me to fuck around with the area.
How are you supposed to know about the tree to get to dungeon 8 in the original zelda
>>12844493hmm i don't recall that one, maybe i missed it.>>12844494finding it wasn't an issue, but pulling it was genuinely the last thing i thought of (and it worked) but it felt bizarre since up until this point pulling on things that aren't obvious wall levers did absolutely nothing or were just bonus stuff that you could go the whole game without knowing.
I beat aLttP when I was 6. I didn’t even know that the internet or guides existed.There must’ve been context clues.
>>12844501It's not the clearest hint in the game, but once you realize you can burn trees, that one's the most conspicuous one of them all. Most kids tended to find it fairly early just by exploring.
>>12844479Holy shit are you trolling? The fact that the game marks the *exact* location of the entrance on your map means you know you must be able do something to open it, and like >>12844493 says the game spells it out for you. This is honestly the moment in the game that caused me to feel the most disappointed in it, as you has something that could have been interesting to discover, but everything about it is made devastatingly obvious because LttP is a casual as fuck ultra handholdy game that doesn't want you to have the satisfaction of inferring things for yourself like the actually great Zeldas do.
You just had the powerNintendo Power or call the hotline
>>12845263There's not a single hint on HOW to open the entrance. OP already said that the entrance location is obvious, what's not obvious is what you need to do to actually open it. The NPC just says something like "you can hear screams from the statue", that's not a clue to how you need to pull the trident to break it which is entirely arbitrary considering pulling never did anything useful except for the like 3 big ass wall levers before this pointThe real answer is "you're not supposed to know, just try shit".
>>12844479This part was easy the hard part was playing the ocarina for the weathervane. I know theres a hint that the cucks like the ocarina but knowing you gotta play it for the cuck statue is tough.
>>12844479You can clearly see it's a dungeon entrance behind the fork tines, so you just have to figure out how to break the tines.
>>12846602No, actually when you talk to the kid's dad in Kakariko he says something like "would you mind keeping the ocarina and playing it at the center of the village? it's what he would've wanted" or something like that. I found it fairly straightforward.
There's a hint in the village, and yes you had to experiment with push/pull game mechanics. These are telegraphed far in advance, though. It's just not told to you explicitly. Personally, I love the lack of handholding and encouragement of exploration and experimentation. Making the player think seems like a lost art these days. Modern Link would have to follow a sprite's fart trail to an obvious yellow button these days.
>>12845263>>12846614seems like people are misreading "how to open the entrance" as "how to find the entrance". i was referring to having to pull on it specifically. if anything i wish they did more with pulling than just a few wall traps, there's plenty of pushing.>>12846621don't get me wrong though it wasn't frustrating or anything. i was just wondering if it was actually hinted at somewhere and i just missed it since in my experience everything else that could be considered obtuse was actually pretty well hinted at, while in this one i just tried random shit blindly.
>>12846614I know pulling is the solution, but would a bomb have worked? I never tried.
>>12846639>if anything i wish they did more with pulling than just a few wall traps, there's plenty of pushingEvery painting in the game has rupees hidden behind it.
>>12846651>I know pulling is the solution, but would a bomb have worked? I never tried.No, but by this point>>12846679you should already know to try pulling on objects
>>12846679That's a secret mechanic.
>>12846639>blindlyI mean, that sounds pretty on point for Blind's dungeon.
>>12844479Call the Nintendo hotline or buy the guidebook.
>>12846618>and playing it at the center of the village?he doesnt say this, unless it was changed for the english version.
>>12846818kino...
>>12846818>called Blind>is actually just light-sensitiveMiyamoto-dono...
>>12846843Oh is it different in the japanese version? The old man explicitly says "could you play its sweet melody for the bird in the village square?".
>>12846871I looked up a youtube letsplay because my memory was fuzzy and I was right in japanese he says 村のトリにオカリナの音色をきかせてやって下され。どうか、お願いですじゃ。which says to play the ocarina for the birds in the town not specifically the weathervane. smart children could maybe guess they should play for the weathervane who is also a bird but its not explicit.
>>12846915Very interesting. I suppose it's meant to make the player react like WOOAH HOLY SHIT after they just try playing it randomly until you play it for the weathervane and suddenly the ambience music stops and the weathervane breaks. Cool moments.
>>12846871>>12846915>>12846923In the English version he says >Would you keep the flute? And will you play its sweet melody for the bird in the village square?
>>12846946Wouldnt be the last time a Zelda game gets localized to be less cryptic. funnily enough it might be the first though because the first two games are notoriously badly translated so that they make less sense in english.
This was THE game of my childhood.This thread made me realize it's been 30 years since I beat it or even played past the Master Sword.Tonight is the night.
>>12846959nice! have fun anon, i had a blast playing it for the first time just recently.
>>12846735>pulling is a secretIt's really not though. Pushing and pulling is taught in the first castle when you rescue the wench.
>>12844501Every player capable of getting that far into the game (and many who aren't) will find it. If you actively tried to find Level-8 and failed, you are either literally blind or the dumbest and most incompetent video game player of all time.
>>12846584>pulling never did anything useful except for a bunch of times when it was usefulYou have to pull statues in Level 3, also (and could have pulled them voluntarily before that). Pulling is well-established by this point. Maybe not the most obvious thing to try but something that you ought to consider. It's not the game's fault if you get stumped here.
>>12846995I'm talking about pulling paintings/trees/statues. And pulling levers is never really tied to an actual puzzle, they're just less memorable small keys, and there's like 4 of them spread throughout the game, so it wouldn't surprise me if a lot of players think either pulling is just good for levers, or they forget about it entirely.I'm surprised nobody brought up that for dungeon 3 you actually have to pull on a statue to press a button that opens a door whose path would get blocked if you pushed it instead of pulled it. That's a proper reminder that pulling is a useful thing you can do, unless you end up doing Thieves Town before Skull Woods.
>>12847042 (me)>>12847040Oh well there you go.
>>12847042>it wouldn't surprise me if a lot of players think either pulling is just good for levers, or they forget about it entirely.Yeah, but just because some players forget doesn't mean it's the game's fault for not introducing the mechanic. For a contrast, walking the figure 8 in Final Fantasy Adventure is a mechanic that is never once introduced before it's required to guess at after a cryptic hint.>I'm surprised nobody brought up that for dungeon 3 you actually have to pull on a statueYou missed it while posting, but it was mentioned: >>12847040
>>12846987Just got the 2nd pendant. I'm having a good time.
>>12847051>Yeah, but just because some players forget doesn't mean it's the game's fault for not introducing the mechanic.Nah not saying it's the game's fault, and from the looks of it not even OP is upset about it as he was just asking if he missed or forgot something. But I do agree that pulling is underutilized compared to everything else so I wouldn't blame others for getting stumped there.>You missed it while posting, but it was mentionedYeah I noticed at >12847045 lmao, it was posted like 10 seconds before me.
>>12846957I doubt it's that cryptic in Japanese. 村のトリ pulls up Zelda first and foremost.
>>12847059they had google in 1991?
>>12847059what are you talking about my man
>>12846915>which says to play the ocarina for the birds in the town not specifically the weathervaneYou're missing an important factor, English must take into account whether something is plural or not (which I hate about the language), while Japanese simply doesn't. So no 村のトリ doesn't say 'village birds' or imply a plural subject, it's left perfectly ambiguous whether it's talking about one or many birds, while the English is forces to specify this.
>>12847119yes youre right it doesnt necessarily imply plurality but as a player I assumed it was plural because you see multiple birds in the town as you play. I am well aware japanese is very contextual and the tense is not explicit. My point is still valid, its ambiguous in japanese and when translated into english it became non-ambiguous.
>>12847053Took a little break to eat but 3rd dungeon down and Master Sword acquired!
>>12844479ALTTP is such a good game man
>>12844479Old adventure games didn't blatantly spell things out Except for when they did, like this one did.
>>12845106But you clearly need to burn a bush, not a tree.
>>12847664That hint isn't about level 8 at all. It's either the moneymaking game guy, or the secret behind the tree where you walk through the rock wall to get 100pack of free rupees. There isn't a level 8 hint It's so obvious, it doesn't need one.
>>12847675The hint for what you're thinking of is "East-most peninsula has a secret"
>>12847664The "bushes" are trees. >>12847675>It's either the moneymaking game guyHe's not secret, and is found a bunch of other places too. >the secret behind the tree where you walk through the rock wallThat's behind the tree, not in it.
>>12846959>it's been 30 years since I beat it or even played past the Master Sword.To be fair, the game gets significantly less fun at a rapid pace once you reach the Dark World. It's way too long and just kind of boring and navigating between portals sucks.
I'm actually surprised most of the rom hacks for this game that change the game are basically kaizo hacks where you have to do shit like bomb jumping, Zelda 1 has a lot of reasonable extra quest type hacks.
This game is good and appealing because it plays at 60 fps.
>>12846584You didn't just reflexively hold A and hump everything? I can't remember how we knew back in the day, I just remember humping every object to see if anything happened.
>>12847801I guess I’ll find out tonight. I am that anon, got to the master sword last night and realized I had downed an entire 750 mL of whiskey. Passed out, just woke up, pretty sure I’m going to puke very soon.Anyway I look forward to the dark world tonight. I had a great time last night even though I basically knew the beginning of the game by memory.
>>12844479by trying different things. it stumps you for like a day, not a big deal unless you're a big baby about those kinds of things.
>>12848363Because that button combination (A + away) is used for...>picking up pots>picking up rocks>pulling switches>pulling statuesOnce you realize you can grab anything with A, and you know that there are SOME objects which react to that, you'll just naturally start trying to do it to everything you see. On top of that, by that point in the game you'll have gotten a glove that you know lets you pick up bigger objects (interact with more things), so you'll try it out even more after that, especially when you're a kid with unlimited time and nothing better to do.
>>12848492>Especially when you're a kid with unlimited time and nothing better to do.I think that’s the disconnect here. As a kid in the early 90s there wasn’t the internet or phones. A game like aLttP took ages to finish. We’d screw around and adventure looking for secrets because we were bored. Now when you have access to all the games all the time things feel more like items on a checklist to finish rather than a fun personal adventure.
>>12847801>navigating between portals sucks.BoooooOOOOWAAAAAAaaaaaaooooooo
>>12848272>two savestates in one 30 second boss battle where you get hit once >thinking the most important thing about a game is an arbitrary frame rate number. I am penning a stern letter to the zoomer delegate.
>>12848272YOU CAN DAMAGE THEM WITH YOUR FUCKING SWORD????????
>>12848857You always could, since when you first fight them you're locked in and they don't have any pick ups to restock your arrows. It's just tedious and slow since they take so much more damage from arrows.
>>12848865When I played it as a kid I would just kill myself and restart if I ran out of arrows. I had no idea I could just hit them with my sword.
>>12846614Literally me the first time I spotted this statue.
>>12848881It’s more difficult to do that the first time you encounter them since your early game sword swing is so short. The game basically begs you to use arrows but like anon said there aren’t drops in the fight so there had to be another way to kill them.
>>12844479call the nintendo help line or buy nintendo power, unironically I don't know how else you would solve it.
>>12848912>unironically I don't know how else you would solve it.cant think of one way? nothing at all? cant imagine someone trying something without the game telling them?
>>12848912That shit used to cost like like $5 per minute like 'phone sex'. Probably the real reason why they used to make games cryptic.
>>12848917>six years old>use bombs>attack it 10 times>run into it>unbreakable>call nintendo hotline>the guy tells me how to do it in 10 secondsyou're right bro you win good job
>>12847770>The "bushes" are trees.No, anon, these are trees.
I beat this without home internet. I don't recall having to resort to nintendo power. So it's all solvable. When you're a kid you have fun playing the game, it doesn't feel like you wasted your time if you just fucked around all day without beating a bunch of dungeons.
>>12848940wtf do you mean I win. You said you couldnt figure out how to solve it. Why would you use bombs? The game didnt say to use bombs. Why would you hit it with the sword? the game didnt say to hit it with the sword. Why would you run into it? Do I really need to spell it out for you?
>>12849020Big trees and small trees are both still trees.
>>12848496It's like that with everything now. Kids are just broken.
>>12849047First time experiencing churlish immaturity online?
>>12848471yeah not a big deal, like i said just wondering if i missed anything since for pretty much everything else there was a hint or context clues and i think i missed it for this one. the tried and true "try every fucking thing" method still worked no problem.also glad to see this thread is still up and people are sharing their enjoyment of alttp and even learning new things.
>>12848492>Because that button combination (A + away) is used for...>>picking up pots>>picking up rocksYou don't need to pull away from pots and rocks to pick them up, you just press A.
>>12848492>>12850614I didn't know you could pull on the Mario paintings for free rupees until I was an adult.
>>12850614Oh, I guess I'm getting LttP controls confused with LA. Regardless, A is the interact button and once you notice that Link grabs walls and other objects while holding A it's a pretty easy conclusion to try pulling on them, especially when you're a kid full of childhood wonder and fewer expectations about what is and isn't potentially possible in a game.
>>12847161How sick was that little sequence that played when you picked up the sword?
>>12850701For sure, but pulling in particular is very underutilized throughout the game, most of the time you just get the link sweating animation and nothing happens, so it doesn't surprise me that it takes more time to figure out when it's the solution to a (simple) puzzle that's necessary for progression. I imagine it being especially harder to figure out to people who did level 4 before 3.
>>12850734Really doubt it. Pulling on the gate is such an obvious thing to try. Very few won't think to.
>>12849047>>12849685are you guys ok?
>>12850709Pretty awesome. The sun coming out and the woodland critters running across the path. The sunbeams through the trees. What a nostalgia hit.Just started playing again, got the first crystal maiden.
>>12850915I'm following your journey closely.
Dark Dungeon 2 down.Item drops are getting harder to come by.There was one section on the left side of that dungeon I thought was a little clever (and sadistic). I'm now at the part of the game I haven't been to in 30 years so it's getting unfamiliar and feels new. Pretty cool.
>>12851192>Snes9xbased, have a good time lad. play OoT next.
>>12851197>OoTI doubt I will. I've beaten that 3 or 4 times. Only beat this once a genuine 30 years ago. I'll consider it though, it's been a few years.
>>12851197On this run I've been trying the different graphics outputs in snes9x.Direct3D is fine, stuttered occasionally when lots of different spites entered the screen. OpenGL stutters a noticeable amount when diagonal scrolling. Vulkan is buttery-smooth, I'm going with that now.
>>12851192How are you feeling about the pacing so far?
OH SHIT IT'S MOTHRA!I love this boss so much. One of the reasons I wanted to play the game.>>12851251Pretty great so far. The dungeons keep you thinking, then you can adventure around the overworld for a while. The last 2 dungeons made me circle back a few times when I took the wrong route, but I can keep track of where I am in dungeons fairly well so far. This one, "Skull Woods" was split up in a neat way.
>>12851270Wow that sumbitch was difficult. Died 4-5 times.Very enjoyable.No savestating here.
>>12851217do a challenge run, play for 3 hearts and no continues or minimum items.
>>12851293I'll be real with you, I'd rather play FFVII for the 20th time than OoT for a 5th. I was obsessed with it in '98-99 but for me, just me, it doesn't excite me anymore. Sounds more like a chore. Sumimasen.I got most of the way through the next dungeon (thx OP for telling me how to open it) and got tired and am now drinking and watching SDF Macross ('82-83) while shitposting in a second window.I will finish the run. 2.5 dungeons in a night after dinner ain't a slow pace. This game took me 2 years to beat as a kid lol.
>>12851281You're supposed to use the fire rod, it kills him in no time.
>>12851430Yeah, I did for the first few hits. The floor that's a belt in 4 alternating directions and the spikes going across in 4 directions really made it crazy.I play games with a handicap that I don't use savestates / walkthroughs. And if I get to the boss door with 1/4 health and 1/3 mana so be it. I'll die and walk back. Just like it used to be. It feels good to do again.I absolutely loved that fight. Mothra used to be the 2nd biggest kaiju behind Godzilla at some time before I existed. Mothula is a poor translation of how some english speaker would translate Mothra. Just some fun backstory.
If you've never seen the Japanese commercial, do yourself a favor and watch it.What a masterpiece. I struggle to begin describing it. Just try holding back a smile.https://youtu.be/yDzbUtyhX2g
>>12851445The Japanese name is actually ガモース, "Gamosu"/Gamoth. Almost every LttP boss got a name change in the localization.
>>12851445>I play games with a handicap that I don't use savestates / walkthroughsThat's not a handicap, that's just playing normally.
>>12851397Where you at now, anon?
>/supposed to know/i
>>12853796Didn’t play last night though I originally planned to. Sometimes you just want to do nothing. Still in dungeon 4.
>>12853796>>12854350Getting back to it. Just got home with a liter of whiskey and took some "rare candies," let's-a-go!
>>12855117See? It gives you context clues when you need them. You could easily have gotten to this point without knowing you could throw them so there's a chest there and the description happens to mention it. I didn't look around for the clues to the OP thing and it's too late.
>>12845106>Most kids tended to find it fairly early just by exploring.Yep. I still remember when I played this when I was like 7 years old. Kids were smarter back then, as there was no internet, dumbphones or AI that made them retarded stupid. Instead we actually played the game, experimented and tried all kinds of things, utilizing our brains to the max and getting smarter.Younger generations like millennials and zoomers who grew up with the internet never got any brain training. They play games with a guide right next to them, many of them even use one during their very first playthrough, completely ruining the experience while getting dumber at the same time.
>>12855135Dark 4 down.Took longer than expected, the map made it look so simple. The worst dungeon and worst boss fight so far. Glad it's over.
>>12855189What a pleasant fairy.
Ice dungeon with slippery floors and conveyor belt floors. Pretty tame so far.
>>12848363They problem is it breaks the routine of zelda where you acquire an item or trigger an event to progress. It's just a fucking weird barrier, man.
>>12855246This game subverts your expectations now and then, but not too much so that you'd expect it half the time.
>>12855237nice! let me know if The Puzzle stumps you or if you get it right away/use something else
>>12855290Oh man I really don't remember this dungeon. So I'm pretty hyped for that. I'm not gonna look a damn thing up. I'm pausing for a bit to eat / shitpost on other boards but I'll be back probably soonish unless I pass out from all these sedatives (which I doubt).
>>12855301You know what, fuck it, I'm going back in.
>>12855313Wait a second here, 8 floors? Fuckin-A.
>>12855316Wow. I ended up back at the entrance on accident and now have to leave and get some mana so I can kill the guy in this room. Man, retro games are just built different.
>>12855328While I'm back in the overworld...
LEt bee take care of it.
>>12856909Holy shit I had no idea bees could be used like this.
The bounciness on the combat always felt weird to me. Part of the design, but it's kind of the reason I never wanted to replay it
>>12855342Finally made my way all the way back and went all the way through the dungeon again. Finally cleared Dungeon 6.
>>12856927Only the "good bee" that's hidden in the Ice Rod cave.I'll admit I've never tried using it on a boss fight, but Mothula is a known faulty boss because of how it doesn't take damage if your attack knocks it back into those spikes.Since it spends much of the fight at the top edge of the room, sword attacks frequently fail, but so can fire rod attacks as intended.Without that bug(?), Mothula is kind of a pushover with the room itself being more of a hazard than the boss.
>>12857171That's Dungeon 5, 6 is the swamp one in the SW of the map
>>12857198You’re right, my mistake.
This fag is crazy for first DW boss, huge difficulty spike. Then the others like >>12857171 are braindead easy
Kid me found it like it was nothing and I'm a dumb donkey. Surely you can't be dumber than me. Why aren't you just pulling things and see what happens?
>>12857379Yeah I was freaking out because things throughout the dungeon could take like 3-4 hearts from me per hit and I got to B6 only to realize I had no potion and I freaked out a little. It was easier than the sand worms in the 2nd light dungeon.About to do dinner than run Misery Mire.
>>12857379yeah, when i finished ice palace i don't think i even took a single hit from the boss.
>>12857384Because some stuff simply clicks more easily for some people and other stuff for other people. I never understood why people had so much trouble progressing in the dark world by finding that hookshot point that lets you move on to the village of the outcasts or why they bitched so much about the ice palace when I cleared it in like 20 minutes, but that's not to say everyone except me is a retard. This game is moderately cryptic all around and in different ways. I've seen people not understanding how to remove the barrier to fight Agahnim, and just in this thread someone had trouble getting the ocarina. As long as you don't call it "bad game design" and blame everyone and ragequit, it's fine in my book.
>>12857598Also keep in mind, I'm chilean and I played this game as a kid with no english knowledge back then and still I managed to finish it.This and SMRPG were the games that led me to learn english on my own before school started teaching it.
Just aimlessly wandering around. I swear I've circled around everywhere I can go so far in here 3-4x. I know I'm missing something.
>>12857632Yep, got it, there was a block that moved in multiple directions but didn't look like it could be.
>>12857638Well that took a while. Decent dungeon, make me think, made me rage.
>>12857668i think me doing level 6 before level 5 made level 5 way easier (skipped an infamous puzzle) and level 6 way harder (everything hits hard as fuck) lol
>>12857671Without the blue armor that would've been a bitch. Some of those rooms had so many projectiles going at a time. Infuriating, but rewarding.
>>12857179>Only the "good bee" that's hidden in the Ice Rod cave.That's a regular bee though
>>12857923no it's not
A Link to the Past has one of the best dungeons in the series the Ice Palace was awful it was a much better game than Ocarina of Time
>>12857379This is how far I got as a kid on my one weekend rental. He's a dick and a half.
>>12857923It's a Golden Bee, if I remember correctly.
>>12851445i always thought "mothula" was like "moth dracula".also, i've never seen anyone else misunderstand the sprite the way i did.
>>12858026holy kek anon
>>12857941>>12858000It says "bee" on the menu and doesn't sparkle, so it's not the Golden Bee.
>>12858026I definitely saw the human-ish face when I was a child, you're not alone.>>12858587Your post made it sound like you were talking about the bee in the Ice Rod cave. You are correct that the bee in the webm is a normal bee and I'm pretty sure the anon who claimed that only the Golden Bee works on Mothula is wrong.
>>12857947You can give this game to an AI and randomly generate dungeons for you to keep gameplay fresh; Retain the same story and pacing.
>>12859343I'm the guy doing the playthrough in this thread.The dungeons are clearly hand-crafted and if you don't use a guide you'll see it. For example, you can drop down 2 different holes and one will leave you backtracking 10 rooms to flip a switch then you walk back and can proceed to get the chest there. Then you've gotta backtrack again and drop through the other hole.It's mildly sadistic sometimes. Picrel, a shot from the exact segment I'm thinking of, but every dark dungeon has these clever fakeouts.AI would just be random stuff and wouldn't have those devs' clever little tricks.
>>12859394Decades later I'm still mad at THAT puzzle in the ice dungeon. And disappointed that they nerfed it in the GBA version.
>>12859397I wasn't sure what you were talking about despite doing that dungeon 1-2 days ago.Google tells me it's the falling block?I was wasted and walked into the room and the pillars were down so I just pushed one of the blocks and went through the hole with no idea it would also drop down lol. The advantage of random drunk ideas.
>>12859409Yeah that was it. I should have played it drunk.
>>12859409yeah the falling block, because normally you will get to that room with the pillars up, and then have to do a very long roundabout trip to get to the left block. i just used the cane of somaria.
In the pre internet age part of the fun was searching throughout the game for answers to solve a puzzle asking your friends about it or buying a magazine or guide for help that was part of the fun but today enerations want everything instant they no longer want to experience real challenges they have been deceived by Sony movie games
>>12844479This was arguably the "hardest" dungeon in the game for me and I remember getting stuck for a while on this area as a 10 year old kid back in the mid 90s. Not just the entrance but the boss as well. I still managed to figure it out and beat the game on my own.It is obvious that entrance is there, so it is really a matter of trying your tools. Bomb, hitting with sword and hammer, running, pulling, using the rods, etc. Something was bound to work. Is it a puzzle you can easily deduct with clues? Not really unless you count a hint you get in light world. But it isn't something crazy to figure out with just trial and error because there aren't that many options either. The previous dungeon requires you to burn the entrance with the fire rod, you have to use the boots to bump on walls and some rooms are only accessible if you pull rocks, so it isn't like bombs are the only thing that open secret paths.
>>12859394How far into your quest are you now, anon?
>Shitty puzzles>Shitty combat>Shitty music>Shitty graphics>Bland as fuck story>Shitty small map>Dungeons that make no sense>Having to open the menu every five seconds>Stupid as fuck minigames>So broken they have a literal room you teleport to when it breaks>Worthless items>Dark world is lazy and just copy paste>Rupees are worthless>Literal pink haired faggotLttP is one of the worst games of all time. Only a nintendie would defend it.
>try pulling on the trident>it comes loose and impales you>instant death
>>12848272>state 0 savedDamn anon, looks like you will have to reply the whole game. You literally lost 1 second into that webm.
>>12856927Mothula is the only boss that's not immune to bees.
>>12859892I only played for a few minutes yesterday, got this sick ass gold sword from the fat fairy. Doing Turtle Rock after dinner.
>>12861537They sure had an attention to detail.
Pulling on the entrance isn't working this time.
>>12861704Check out the top of the rock.
They're throwing all sorts of new stuff in here this late in the game? Cool, as it should be. I just passed a room with 2 mario chain chomps lol.>>12861707It was super obvious, I was kidding about the OP thing with that pic. Thx tho.
It's a series of tubes.
>>12861759>I just passed a room with 2 mario chain chomps lol.if you want mario cameos, just wait until Link's Awakening...
>>12861759>I was kidding about the OP thing with that piclol screw you!(keeping up with your journey has been a lot of fun)
Convoluted? This is convoluted.>pass the big chest>didn't have the big key>get big key>the game entices me to try the one room I hadn't seen on the floor>get locked out of the pathway I wanted to take back to the big chestreee>>12861765:D I'm having a great time with it.
>>12861775Oh shiit it's Princess Zelda!That dungeon wasn't as bad as expected. Kinda fun.
>>12861797Took a nice drive out in the ol' '90s 5-speed miata while the roads are empty. Ahhh, nothin' like burnin' gasoline under the stars. Passed by the liquor store on my way, of course.Back to it. Now, I am not using a guide and I remember Ganon's Tower being something else, so I might not finish the game tonight, we'll see.
>>12861885Man, I need to load up on potions and let my good bee go. ;_; I've been holding it since really early in the game.>Mori e okaeri, Good Bee.
>>12861901Here we are, the room that rekt me as a 6-year old in 1995. I just couldn't figure it out for weeks.What a... link... to the past. :P
>>12861931Seems super obvious now, but as a kid this somehow took me forever. You just light the torch at the upper end of the room from afar lol.
>>12861704but pulling on the claws gets you rupees.
>>12844479>game has extremely obvious dungeon entrance>it's even marked on the map >game has less than 20 ways to interact with objects in the worldIt's a mystery to everyone!
>>12861932i think you can also use the ether medallion to make the tiles show up for a bit and then just kind of... memorize.
>>12861943You sure can.
>>12861959I have to fight this guy again?!
>>12861974Beyond this door... is this the end of the game?I'm pretty sure it is.
>>12861979I just beat this battle and was warped to the dark world pyramid.Presumably there's a final showdown soon.
I see..
>>12861989YOU GOT THIS, DUDE!
holy shit youre still going
>Ganon
>>12862026Game Clear!
Glorious.
>>12862027gratz fag
>>12862037>FOREVER Isn't LTTP like one of the first games in the timeline?
10/10. Best Zelda game. Real early-90s gaming.>>12862056I think in the modern retconned timeline alttp is a sequel to oot assuming Link lost to Ganon in oot.To me, they're just individual games with a similar theme.
>>12862056Yes, Link gets the Master Sword in at least A Link Between Worlds, even if you don't count him getting it via weird upgrade in the Oracle games or the Magical Sword in NES Zelda being the Master Sword.
>>12862037Golf clap
>>12862065>he actually got through the whole thing without getting bored from the egregiously slow pacing in the midgameI kneel. You have done what I cannot.
>>12863391that anon is a faggit. lttp is a saferetro bore
>>12862065How many times did you die or save/quit?
>>12863391The pacing isn't slow, gameplay-wise. Death to storyfags.
>>12863547I'm talking about the gameplay.
>>12862065well done anon i had a fucking blast with the game too
>>12862073>Magical Sword in NES Zelda being the Master Sword.it's not lil nigga
>197 replies to this stupid dumbshit pattern threadJust delete the fucking board already.
>>12862065I've been checking in periodically to see your progress, glad to see you persevered. Well done, anon.
>>12863749you're a miserable fag
>>12863749Most of them are just from an anon who started playing ALTTP for the first time in 30 years and sharing his progress and OP has been engaging in conversation actively. Calm your tits.
>>12844479Real answer: Pushing and pulling in that early of a SNES game, along with all of the other features, would have very apparently and readily stood out to players at the time. It would have been on their forethought more than modern day experienced gamers who are too used to games that give you features then clearly mark and segment sections where that feature IS allowed to work or ISN'T allowed to work.In other words, we would have been pushing an pulling on literally everything just simply because there was a button and it wowed us at the time. It never would have once occurred to us to stop doing it just because it didn't work for the other 99.9999% of the game.
>>12863896It's true. I checked every single chest in Link's Awakening despite only ever getting the message, "Link checked the chest. This is a really nice chest!"
>>12863553Right, it was my way of saying you're completely wrong. The gameplay isn't slow in the middle. Good luck trying to actually make a persuasive argument on that point. You won't be able to.
>>12862056In Zelda 1 and 2, the only other games at that time, Link never wields the Master Sword. His weapon is instead the Magical Sword.
>>12864374The dungeons get too long, most are not very interesting or fun to go through, you have to wander back and forth across the entire map way too much, there's too much busywork between dungeons that just isn't fun to do, navigating between Dark World portals is annoying and makes traversal a pain... The midgame just feels so bloated and slow because of all that. You can get back to a place where the game moves forward at a decent clip eventually and the dungeons are more fun, but it takes a long time and the game wears me down before that point every time. I've beaten the game once in my life, but every other time I've tried I just get bored. It's one of the least replayable Zeldas for me.
>>12862056Like the other anon said, the current up-to-date official timeline that Nintendo publishes does contradict that with ALBW and the Oracle Linked games where you can upgrade your sword to level 3 and it's dubbed the Master Sword.Originally at the time when OoT was published, the crew working on it said that OoT was supposed to be the imprisoning war itself, and including what interviewers cornered Miyamoto into saying, the timeline basically went Zelda 2's backstory -> OoT -> Zelda 1 -> Zelda 2 -> ALttP -> LA.Which also doesn't make sense, because text IN ALttP basically says that the imprisoning war happened roughly 30~100 years ago depending on which NPC spoke, which definitely means there would not have been enough time for Zelda 1 and 2 to have fit in before ALttP. But hey! That's okay! Around the time ALttP was made, Miyamoto called it a prequel game to Zelda 1 and 2 in interviews instead! So originally the timeline went Z2's Backstory -> ALttP -> LA -> Z1 -> Z2 and just ended there.So Z2's backstory -> OoT as imprisoning war -> ALttP 30 years later -> ALttP sails off to LA -> Power Gap -> Z1 -> Z2 immediately after would have been the corrected timeline, and it would have actually made sense with at least 90% of the context of the games and not involved any splits or anything of the sort.And then Aonuma shows up...
>>12861932>>12861931I watched a streamer do this recently. They couldn't figure it out either and used the cane of somaria and pushing the block off the edge to slooooowly crawl around. Even had to leave to go fill up magic potions to complete this. Went absolutely furious when the torch was spotted at the end, lol.
>>12864606>The dungeons get too longThey aren't too long at all.>most are not very interesting or fun to go throughPurely subjective. They are all plenty interesting, each one has novel enemies, gimmicks and environments to contend with.>you have to wander back and forth across the entire map way too muchReally dumb complaint. It takes like 30 seconds to dash across the entire map and you have multiple fast travel options. If anything, the map is too small and feels too cramped. There are portals to dark world all over the place. This is simply not a problem. If it's taking you a long time, that means you're exploring and learning the world, meaning the pacing is fine given your (lack of) mastery of the game. And when you know the game well, you can blast through it very quickly.>here's too much busywork between dungeonsGive three examples>You can get back to a place where the game moves forward at a decent clip eventually and the dungeons are more funWhich dungeons, exactly? It seems to me that the most notoriously tedious dungeons in ALTTP are Level-5 (Ice Palace) and Level-7 (Turtle Rock), which are pretty late in the game. And neither are actually all that bad.In fact, the game is paced excellently.- Dive in with an easy, linear dungeon to rescue Zelda.- Practice in the overworld as you explore.- Get comfortable with the dungeon structure in the pendant quest- Early-game climax and turning point, master sword + hyrule castle- Intro to dark world with Dark Palace- Explore dark overworld and do the mid-tier levels (2, 3, 4)- Mastery of both overworlds and complete the high-tier levels (5, 6, 7)- Ganon's TowerThe upgrades remain varied and interesting, with a decent balance between dungeon rewards and overworld discoveries.
>>12864785not that anon, and i agree with YOU, but i want to share my experience and reasoning for when and how i found mid-game to be slow in the past.between dw 3-5ish. the reasoning is that you dont get the enhanced power gloves until 4, which is basically the final traversal roadblock. before you get it, you can often get blocked by dark rocks when exploring and trying to find your way, and its a bit annoying. afterwards you open up literally everything and the amount of stuff to do is a bit daunting. if you're trying to see and do everything, then it will be a while before you do the next dungeon, which might seem like progress is slowed. when first time playing, FINDING all of those dark portals and stuff can take a while. and as a completionist, grinding for rupees for bombs/arrows upgrades sucked too.additionally, and this was a huge hangup of mine and a SKILL ISSUE, but absolutely FUCK mothula as a boss fight. fuck that fight, fuck the runback if you die, fuck needing to find more hearts first, fuck needing to upgrade the sword first, fuck esoteric bee strats or bugs where he didnt actually take damage because of hitting the spikes. i hated the #4 blind fight too, because there were too many fucking fireballs everywhere. additionally, you dont get the tunic upgrade until 5, and you dont even need it for the subsequent bosses because they're so easy. so between a bunch of side content (which can absolutely be a bit tedious. like the digging minigame for the heart piece) and getting my shit absolutely rocked by two bosses in a row, my midgame used be "that part" of the game for me. i have since gotten better and i agree with you that there really isnt a pacing issue or slow part of the game, because exploration IS fun and there is always something to do.
>>12864998>FUCK mothula as a boss fight. fuck that fight, fuck the runback if you die, fuck needing to find more hearts first, fuck needing to upgrade the sword first, fuck esoteric bee strats or bugs where he didnt actually take damage because of hitting the spikes. i hated the #4 blind fight too, because there were too many fucking fireballs everywhere.Yeah that's the peak difficulty for bosses. Even Ganon isn't as hard beyond being a looong fight.
>>12864998>between dw 3-5ish. the reasoning is that you dont get the enhanced power gloves until 4, which is basically the final traversal roadblock. before you get it, you can often get blocked by dark rocks when exploring and trying to find your way, and its a bit annoying. afterwards you open up literally everything and the amount of stuff to do is a bit daunting.Thank you, this pretty much sums it up, it's just been too long since I last played for me to find the specific examples and words for it.
>>12865075>>12864998>between dw 3-5ish. the reasoning is that you dont get the enhanced power gloves until 4, which is basically the final traversal roadblock. before you get it, you can often get blocked by dark rocks when exploring and trying to find your way, and its a bit annoying.I'd agree this is reasonable criticism, but would not call it a question of pacing. Just mildly excessive railroading. If you are stuck on Mothula, you can go explore and gain a lot more power before coming back to try again (Invisibility cape, heart containers, tempered sword, extra bottle).> afterwards you open up literally everything and the amount of stuff to do is a bit daunting.Well, which is it? This seems contradictory.If I were going to tweak ALTTP, I'd hide the Titan's Mitt in overworld, requiring at most the pearl/mirror and mallet to obtain. Magic Cape could go in Blind's Hideout. That would be slightly lame given how powerful the cape is against Blind specifically, making it somewhat nicer as an optional discovery from the overworld. But it would reduce the railroading.But again, it's not a broad pacing issue. I know one of you already agrees on that point but I'm still emphasizing it.>>12865008I agree with the guy who said Helmasaur (dark world 1) is peak boss difficulty. Bombs and the mallet are both shitty weapons. Mothula and Blind are both fairly challenging, but by that point you can reasonably have the cape and the magic meter upgrade, which can make those fights significantly easier. (Even the sword upgrade can be obtained and helpful for those two, if you're REALLY having trouble). You can technically just take the mallet, move on, and come back later, but you don't get the other maiden locations on your map until you beat him. It's not a natural thing to do.
>>12865269Helmasaur is overwhelming when you first meet him, but he's simple once you know his pattern. Mothula and Blind just go nuts with speed and shots.
>>12865269I wonder if you're doing that thing that so many people do, where they approach the game only from the perspective of already being completely familiar with the entire game and where everything is and when you can get there. Any game will seem perfectly paced if you always know exactly where to go and what to do at any given moment, but you have to put yourself into the shoes of someone who's playing for the first time, or revisiting the game years later with little memory of all the specifics. There's a point in the middle of the game where you start having to find more secrets on the overworld in order to progress, and when you don't know exactly what to do or exactly where to go out starts to drag on with more and more time spent wandering around in between dungeons rather than actually entering and completing dungeons. It's not enough to make me ragequit, but it's enough to wear me down so I need a break and then lose motivation to go back to the game and just end up not picking it back up.
>>12865269>> afterwards you open up literally everything and the amount of stuff to do is a bit daunting.>Well, which is it? This seems contradictory.its more that there are so many LITTLE things, as opposed to the clear dungeons which are landmark achievements, direct progression, and even once you're inside, there is a singular way forward through them. all of the little things is stuff like heart piece caves, the digging minigame, and generally going back and forth across the map. all of these little odds and ends to sort of "checklist" off, but none of them as monumental as completing a dungeon. in THAT regard, some people will feel like the pacing slows down, despite not even recognizing that they've been ACTIVELY PLAYING A GAME the entire time. its a petty perception thing. but when you're stuck and raging at bosses on top of that, its even easier to FEEL like a slump point. but again, i agree with you that its all superficial and my PERSONAL experience when i did not agree was largely stemming from a skill issue.>helmasauri dont recall ever having a problem with him, and i would use JUST bombs, not even the hammer.
>>12865617nta but i first played LTTP about 4 years ago, wasn't spoiled on any of it, and my biggest takeaway was that the game was paced excellently. it felt like the most video game-y game id played in a long time and i was never sick of it. this thread is the first time ive seen people complain about the middle's pacing and it's real surprising
>>12865892same thing (i'm OP). i played this for the first time just now. exploring the overworld to find the way to enter the next dungeon felt like a puzzle in itself, and i loved exploring because it was fun to move around. i only really ever got "stuck" on two parts: finding where to use the hookshot to get to the village of outcasts, and -entering- thieves' town which didn't take me much either it just confused me. but i guess that anon sees it as a flaw instead of a challenge, which is fine i guess. some people might have loved moving around hyrule field in oot but i thought it was slow and boring as shit (good game otherwise).i'm onto link's awakening now.
>>12865901>some people might have loved moving around hyrule field in oot but i thought it was slow and boring as shit (good game otherwiseagreed, and similarly, i played that for the first time just a few years ago too.
>>12865901I had to look at a map to figure out how you use the hookshot to access the Village of Outcasts, been playing the game since release and I never once used that method, lol.
>>12866225Same, never realized you could get there with the hookshot. I've always gone in through the woods at the north end of town.
>>12866225>>12866613yeah i really thought until recently that you could only get there by that very sneaky hookshot spot. it was only until i finished the game and discussed it with a friend that he told me that you could get there by using the hammer near an entrance to lost woods and use the portal there.
>>12865617>I wonder if you're doing that thing that so many people do, where they approach the game only from the perspective of already being completely familiar with the entire game and where everything is and when you can get there. No, not at all. While I am dismissing pathological approaches, such as obsessively needing to exhaustively search every portion of the accessible overworld before proceeding, I'm considering multiple playstyles and always assume a reasonable novice as a baseline. But I am also explicitly discounting situations where a player is stuck on something, because that has nothing to do with pacing.>Any game will seem perfectly paced if you always know exactly where to go and what to do at any given moment,That is not, actually, an unreasonable way to assess a game's pacing. Indeed, when I want to highlight the sluggishness of OoT's pacing, I explicitly use the "unnaturally fast" approach to highlight how much time is spent on completing mundane tasks even when waste no time at all.>... when you don't know exactly what to do or exactly where to go out starts to drag on with more and more time spent wandering around in between dungeons rather than actually entering and completing dungeons.This is not a pacing issue or even a game issue. There are never that many secrets to find. Exploring the overworld does not take that much time. It's a very small world. It's packed full of variety, so it never gets repetitive. "Boring" is subjective, but each area has distinct environments and enemies to fight and things to poke at and explore. The railroading is lenient enough that there are usually multiple dungeons accessible. If it takes you a long time because you run by the broken bridge a dozen times before you notice the hook shot post, that's just you getting stuck (and as others have mentioned, there are two ways across the river allowing you to progress).
>>12865632>muh feelsyeah sure, you can feel like anything, but if your only argument is that you had a personal feeling that the game was slow, that's not good criticism.Now, IF the game had not given you the hook shot in the water dungeon, unlocking more areas and making it easier to access others, that could be an argument against pacing. The argument would be not about time, specifically, but that the game was forcing you to complete too many dungeons in a row without increasing your ability to explore. The pacing metric is "map expansion."In theory your argument seems to be "not enough dungeons" but I'm really not seeing that argument made coherently. The dungeons are marked on the map. They aren't hard to find. Getting to 3 and 4 after 1 and 2 is not some kind of major slog of tasks or walking simulation. It's just overworld exploration. In fact I'd call it GOOD pacing, because it's nice to have a break from dungeon crawling to explore and fight new enemies in less intense areas.
>>12844479I remember just trying it as a kid and being blown away that it worked
>>12867593you really didnt read my posts at all, did you?
>>12848272>SAVE STATE SAVED>SAVE STATE SAVED>SAVE STATE SAVED>SAVE STATE SAVEDWhy do faggots do that? What is the point of "beating" the game like that?
>>12867667I'll rephase:>its more that there are so many LITTLE things, as opposed to the clear dungeons which are landmark achievements, direct progressionThere aren't "so many LITTLE things"There's nothing inherently about the way the game is designed that would cause this. It's entirely a perspective thing. You're trying to claim its the game that's responsible for the perspective, but aren't actually following through.I claim there's never a point where there are a lot of little things you NEED to do in order to progress more quickly to achieve "landmark" dungeon-clearing moments. Maybe you didn't see it because you didn't read my post all the way through, but there we are.
>>12867843Posting on social media that they beat the game.
>>12867843Makes anons butthurt
>>12867986>It's entirely a perspective thing.yes.>You're trying to claim its the game that's responsible for the perspectiveyes, its called a reaction. judgements are reactions. thats how they work.>there's never a point where there are a lot of little things you NEED to do in order to progressand i explained where the feeling (reaction, judgement, etc) to need to do them comes from. how is one to know that there isnt an item they might need for progression tucked away in some cave? you know, like the flippers or ice rod. and since i hit a spot of struggle, i am incentivized to try and gear up before going further. also, i bought the whole game, i should play the whole game. all of that stuff hitting at the same time (coupled with a skill issue) led to a feeling that the game stalled a bit. but i also explained that its kind of a false feeling regardless, because even if you're doing little things, you're still ACTIVELY PLAYING THE GAME and its a fun game. its not completely unreasonable for somebody to have that feeling. it should be easy to understand why. it should also be easy to explain to them, how they're wrong for having that judgement/feeling.
I replayed the game over the course of this thread existing, took 5 and a half hours. Used the redux hack with msu-1 soundtrack. Still just as good as I remember from the 90s. I didn't accurately remember many of the puzzles though. Was randomly rangebanned for seemingly no reason so couldn't post.
>>12870971>redux hack>as good as I remember from the 90sThat hack didn't exist in the 90s. Your memory is a lie and you didn't beat the game.
