>>12849084
>When does this get good?

Nobody unironically thinks BOF1 and 2 are good.

Why aren't you using magic to heal and then resting or using some fountain/pond/whatever to resotre mp? but anyway later in the game the money issue won't be such a problem except when you need to upgrade equipment. There are also probably some early game exploits to make (at the time) good money with fishing and hunting but it's been a long time for me so I can't remember the specifics. The early game in both BOF1 & 2 kind of sucks compared to 3 and 4, in any case

>>12849089
2 is the best one. You must have no concept of the series at all if you can't tell how divided it is. To me 4 sucks absolute ass and even I know there's people that like it. Because I don't live under a rock like you.

>>12849084
BoF2... it has it's moments, but it is a slog.

High encounter rate. Lots pressing X to attack. Plot is meandering and not well written. Like how do I explain to the uninitiated?

... like... so obviously Bow has been incriminated by the thief girl's actions, yeah? Ostensibly Ryu is off on a grand adventure to go clear Bow's name. Totally cool. Does Ryu ever actually go on an adventure to save Bow? Do any investigating or tracking of the thief...? No, not really. I mean you could intuit that when Ryu hears rumors of a super attractive female fighter at the Coliseum that perhaps he gets the idea that this mysterious fighter might be the thief, hence why he bothers to take Baba/Bunyan's place... but what would give Ryu that impression?
The thief wasn't shown to be a master combatant. She just got the goods before Bow did and the guards assumed he did it. And why would a professional thief want to be in a situation with all eyes on her in the middle of a spectacle bloodsport even if she were great at hand-to-hand combat?

(cont.)

>>12849084
Doesn't make a lick of damned sense. In a better written plot, there would've been more incriminating red herrings Ryu would've discovered that would lead him to believe that Katt is the thief he's looking for. But that was JRPG writing back in the 90s, y'know?

And Ryu meanders around, meets a whole colorful cast of allies and NPCs, eventually stumbles upon a kingdom that's captured the thief for him, by sheer happenstance (cuz Ryu and Co. were getting absolutely nowhere and fast with this little quest of theirs) and after doing anything other than attempting to simply take custody of the thief... eventually the kingdom hands Ryu the thief for his great assistance. Doesn't feel earned.

(cont.)

Next big quest is to investigate sightings of a huge, ferocious, monster near Gate that is reminiscent of that one big monster that attacked Ryu and Bow when they were children. So off you go... and immediately lose track of that tangent to do a whole lot of other things that is not that monster hunt.

Much later, toward the bitter end of the game, well after the player has forgotten all about why they even left Ranger HQ at all... the game just puts big monster in front of you. Again... it's not like Ryu hunted him down, gathered clues... or anything. The game just throws the monster in your path. It's just not satisfying.

(cont.)

>>12849084
Other faults?

The game has a little NTR. An ally of yours has a little crush on you, or can depending, and it doesn't matter at all. You're challenged to an unwinnable fight and are forced to lose, and that ally of yours effectively chooses them. Them, this guy who challenged you to a fight? He's a chad and already has a main squeeze, they're acting as a spy for him. He ditches your ally for the main squeeze.

So you get cucked a bit.

Hmm... oh yeah! So there's this event in the game where a character chooses to lose any semblance of their humanity to become the Great Bird. How that plays out is a bit of a tear jerker, as the person who becomes a Great Bird can never transform back. Cool.

... their sacrifice is almost immediately annulled because about the time you get them as a "airship" to sail the skies? Demons attack pretty soon after that and they can no longer be of use to you, so you've got to use other means of flying transportation thus undermining their great sacrifice as MEANINGLESS. Granted, they used the bird to get they guy they needed for the other flying means of travel, but christ, they couldn't have taken a ship? They *had* to sacrifice someone to transform into the Great Bird and then render them immediately obsolete? Ouch, man. Fucking ouch. That character got played so dirty.

... BoF 2 has one of the worst implementations of the dragon transformation. You don't even transform so much as you "summon" a dragon breath attack, and that always depletes Ryu's AP to 0 after every use. Lame.


Hmm... good things about the game?
It feels sick when you get the treasure chest at the fishing game, fusions are cool, Sten's personal quest bit of the game is pretty awesome actually, figuring out what happened to your Dad and Sister is pretty neat, and the game paved the way for BoF3 which is better in pretty much every single way.

Man what are you talking about BoF2 is amazing. Sure the fights are often and it gets a bit repetitive but the music makes up for it, especially after it starts playing the more badass tunes.
stay inside inns and don't buy herbs. go farm weaker enemies, jellys or flys until you build up a couple of levels and some money. do this over the game in every new region, go back to the previous region and farm a few levels, make $$$ and move forth afterwards.

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>>12849084
There's a reason all BoF2 threads devolve into Katt coomer posting, the game itself sucks. Endless grind.

>>12849220
>The game has a little NTR. An ally of yours has a little crush on you, or can depending, and it doesn't matter at all. You're challenged to an unwinnable fight and are forced to lose, and that ally of yours effectively chooses them. Them, this guy who challenged you to a fight? He's a chad and already has a main squeeze, they're acting as a spy for him. He ditches your ally for the main squeeze.
>So you get cucked a bit.
you have brainworms if you genuinely think that this is "ntr" or "cucking" in ANY capacity.

>>12849414
>your girl leaving you for your worst enemy and him pumping and dumping her isnt NTR

>>12849084
This game is punishing in battles because unlike other jarpigs there is virtually no game over. You get transported back to the last dragon statue with all progress intact of you die. You only pay gold.
Still you really shouldn't be struggling with herbs you are doing something wrong.

>>12849654
Hey buddy, the FF8 thread is two pages down.

>>12849350
You realize you just described the basic strategy for every JRPG ever made, right?

>>12849414
Tiga, literally, confesses his love for Katt and demands to marry her. The only way to avoid the fight is to tell Tiga not only you're just friends with Katt but that you're a-okay with Tiga marrying Katt too. Any response resembling a "no" to his advances causes a duel between you an Tiga and Tiga has infinite HP. Even if you cheat to win, the game proceeds as if you lost. Katt then sincerely considers Tiga's proposal, and the only reason why this emasculation ritual gets cut off is because because Tiga is already in a relationship with Claris and the two die.

Cope harder, lol

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>>12849091
The problem is these motherfuckers right here. Any way you slice it HP needs to be paid for in coins, either via herbs or resting at an Inn. The problem is these pieces of shit are more than capable of doing more damage to you than can be recovered in the measly 5 coins they drop, which means if you are unlucky enough to fight two of them, which happens all the time, you will lose money fighting them. Now that I'm level 9 and have the suede armor it's not a big deal anymore, but I had to grind in the starting area with the fast forward button on just to be able to say afloat just because of these fucking dickheads

>fishing
I tried it and it sucks.
>fountains
don't feel like trecking all the way back to the mountain
>hunting
Don't have the dogman anymore so I can't do it.

I'm going to give this game another 2 hours max and then I'm putting it down.

>>12850570
>I'm going to give this game another 2 hours max and then I'm putting it down.
ngmi

>>12850259
Okay but Nina was always the better girl so who cares?

>>12850893
Yes. Snake Nina is p'good

>>12850570
I first played this on GBA (where you can dash, exp is doubled, money is doubled or tripled, something like that) and I loved it. But I think the GBA changes are exactly why I was able to love it.

>>12849654
"an ally of yours" is not the same thing as "your girl", clown.
>>12850259
>other guy confesses his love for girl
nothing resembling cucking yet.
>tell him you're just friends, or else you fight
literally just a dialogue option, nothing resembling cucking yet.
>lose a fight
not cucking.
>girl "considers his proposal"
not cucking. also we've already established that she isnt even "your girl", just an ally. also you guys left out the fact that they're both woren, so continuing the species is a logical thought.
>tiga is already in a relationship
it seems that claris comes out to confess her feelings, and tiga realizes that he actually likes claris. the only reason tiga was so set on katt is because they're both woren. no "cucking" took place. they literally dont even hook up.


if you view any part of this as ntr or getting cucked, you have brainworms. hell, you probably think that somebody else getting the last donut before you means that you got "cucked" by them. you probably think that somebody else making it through the yellow light, but you had to stop at the red means that you got "cucked" by them. you have brainworms.

>>12851417
>worms. hell, you probably think that somebody else getting the last donut before you means that you got "cucked" by them. you probably think that somebody else making it through the yellow light, but you had to stop at the red means that you got "cucked" by them. yo
t. nodonutz redlight cuck coping

>>12851417
Lmao.

Strawman:
>other guy confesses his love for girl
No. Other guy already has a lover. Moreover, not only is Katt a legitimate romantic interest, but we've been looking at dat ass for an entire game at this point.
Further, the NTR that happens between Tiga and Katt is 100% meaningless.

>nothing resembling cucking yet.
Fair, at this juncture. Not *yet*.

Strawman:
>tell him you're just friends, or else you fight
No. Tiga asks two questions. If you say that Katt is more than just a friend, then the fight between Ryu and Tiga happens automatically. If you answer that Katt is just a friend, Tiga will follow that up asking if you care whether or not he marries Katt. You also have to agree to Katt being married to Tiga to bypass the fight.

>literally just a dialogue option, nothing resembling cucking yet.
Either you give her up entirely or dual for her affections. This absolutely sets up the framework for the NTR.

Strawman:
>lose a fight
No. You're *forced* to lose to Tiga because the game cheats and gives him infinite HP. Even if you counter-cheat to win the game proceeds as if you lost anyway.

>not cucking.
It is NTR to be forced to lose a duel for the affections of a love interest.

Strawman:
>girl "considers his proposal"
... by staying with Tiga and asking Ryu if he's mad about it. How she promised to stand by his side when you assault the church.

>not cucking.
It's NTR.

>also we've already established that she isnt even "your girl", just an ally.
And the way this is established is that Tiga whoops your ass in a duel for her affections that you were forced to lose.

>also you guys left out the fact that they're both woren, so continuing the species is a logical thought.
Claris isn't a woren.

(cont.)

>>12851417
>tiga is already in a relationship
Yep. Perhaps a situationship, but it's implied he's tapping that.

>it seems that claris comes out to confess her feelings, and tiga realizes that he actually likes claris.
Give me a break, dude. What drives Tiga out of hiding in the crowd is the accusation made against him that he only viewed Claris as a "subordinate."

>the only reason tiga was so set on katt is because they're both woren.
Which is entirely irrelevant in every direction you slice it:

A) This isn't a situation where the woren are going extinct. Tiga never impregnates Katt and Rei exists in the far flung future meaning the woren have survived. There's anywhere from centuries to thousands of years between BoF2 and BoF3. So there's nowhere for this narrative thread to go.

B) Again, Claris is not a woren. So, clearly, it really didn't matter what the race of the puss that Tiga was going after.

C) At no point is any of this NTR crap relevant to the plot. It's not like only Tiga and Katt together could pull the sword of legend for Ryu to wield or some shit. If the NTR and duel for Katt were cut out of the game entirely the plot would still chug along like nothing happened, the only purpose it servers is for the sake of NTR.

(cont.)

>>12851417
>no "cucking" took place.
I said you get cucked "a bit."

>they literally dont even hook up.
I said there was "a little NTR."

The trajectory was for Tiga to totally scoop her up, but Claris and his death cut it off prematurely.

>if you view any part of this as ntr or getting cucked, you have brainworms.
Maybe you're the one with the brainworms, you keep mentioning them so damn much, fuck bro.

>hell, you probably think that somebody else getting the last donut before you means that you got "cucked" by them.
Well that all depends since this is supposed to be a fair comparison, right?
Is this a last donut in which I could freely and easily walk up to and take should I wish? Or is this a situation in which I'm told I'm able to take the last donut and it appears at a glance that I could but as it turns out this arrangement is rigged and no matter what I do I'm never able to claim the last donut?

>you probably think that somebody else making it through the yellow light, but you had to stop at the red means that you got "cucked" by them. you have brainworms.
Well that all depends, since this is supposed to be comparable, right?
Are we in separate lanes, he's just more ahead of me, and the light timing is just what it was? Or was he looking at his phone, not paying attention, in front of me in the turn lane, I honk to get his attention, he flips me off and waits for a bit, the light turns yellow, he shoots off, and I'm left at the red waiting for the next cycle?

>>12851490
I just read your entire post. I don't even know why I did that, usually anytime there is a sign of a poltard or of a coomer I just ignore the post. Anyway, I read the entire post in full zombie mode, then at the end I paused in front of my screen for 2 seconds and finally I shouted
>YOU'RE FUCKING RETARDED MAN!

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>>12851496
You dropped this, anon. Looks NTR-less, too

I wish this retard would stop trying to force his cuck fetish onto Breath of Fire every time it has a thread.

>>12851490
>>12851489
>>12851486
topkek. bodied that bozo.

This thread made me take this game off my to play list and I love Gen 4/5 RPGs

>>12851956
NTR is based. self-insert as the bull. OH WAIT YOU CANT BECAUSE THE GAME TELLS YOU WHO TO CONTROL

>>12851957
Honestly I didn’t get to the back and forth about the NTR or lack there of when I wrote that, I was still talking about the meandering plot and the early game grind

>>12851964
A lot of old jrpgs aren't worth it I feel, I liked the genre as a teenagee but only find myself able to revisit a few titles nowadays.

>>12851486
>Other guys already has a lover
he doesnt already have a lover though. he has a working relationship with a female, who then confesses her feelings and he realizes he actually deeply cares about her, more than his quick thirst to repopulate the woren.
>the ntr that happens is meaningless
doubly so because no ntr occurred.
>you give her up entirely or dual for her affections
duel*. its still just dialogue options. no cucking occurs.
>b-b-b-but the fight is scripted!
literally does not matter, lmao
>It is NTR to be forced to lose a duel for the affections of a love interest.
and that mentality is proof you have brainworms.
>its ntr
is ntr just "you didnt get what you want" in fewer words and with a sexual shame tacked on? what a bizarre way to view the world, to perpetually tack on unnecessary nonsense where it doesnt exist. brainworms.
>she's not your girl because you lost
she wasnt your girl to begin with. you're just a loser, not a cuck.
>claris isnt a woren
no shit, tiga and katt are. its literally the basis for tiga's obsession.
>its irrelevant
its a motivator for katt too.
>this isnt a situation where the woren are going extinct
yes it is. they are extremely rare and their clan is almost entirely destroyed. just because a few survivors succeeded in keeping it going doesnt mean that these arent the only 2 woren in the game. "Throughout the game, Katt believes she is essentially the last or only one of her kind until she encounters the male Woren resistance leader, Tiga"
>B
you're failing to recognize the actual context of the relationship tiga has with claris. he gets excited for katt because woren, but then realizes that he cares more for claris on a personal level and that its more important.

>>12851489
>C
at no point is any of this cucking. period. so unless ntr means "the contrived/forced idea that something is cuckoldry even when it isnt" there is no ntr. additionally, the ADAMANT insistence of viewing anything and everything through an ntr lens (is this cucking? is this cucking?) is proof of brainworms. as for plot relevance, yes the core plot would still happen the same, but the whole thing is about what love even is. katt LITERALLY tells tiga she doesnt feel love for him and tiga doesnt understand. it isnt until claris confesses her feelings that he understands, and then chooses claris. you're literally just that jap guy running through the streets screaming SEEEEEEEX and focusing on make-believe ntr instead of whats actually happening and why.
>"a little ntr"
>trajectory
so it didnt happen. the only cucking that happened was in your own brain due to brainworms jumping to conclusions that didnt happen.
>arrangements
literally doesnt matter, lmao. the fact that you think it does is proof of how retarded and hopeless you are. in any and all of those situations, you were not cucked.
>>12851957
brainworms.

Everything in between the high story moments in Breath of Fire II is bland. Anything to do with the start of the games cave monster is cool, but everything else is just bland. The NES Dragon Quest games are more fun.

>>12851624
oh, this isnt an isolated thing? this guy really is just hyper fixated on this giant nothingburger, imposing his weird ntr fetish where it doesnt belong, and and has to shout it in every thread? all the more proof of brainrot and brainworms.

>>12851957
is this you? >>>748837896

>>12852348
I definitely feel that. Plus being able to retroactively go back and play all the 9/10’s and 10/10’s you missed as a kid means the decent ones fall by the wayside.

>>12852391
>>12852393
>brainworms, brainworms, brainworms... etc.
Show us on the doll where the brainworms touched you bro. Are the brainworms in the room with us right now? Did the brainworms cause you to write the revisionist BS here >>12851417? Are the brainworms causing you to continue to write your revisionist BS now?

>he doesnt already have a lover though. he has a working relationship with a female, who then confesses her feelings and he realizes he actually deeply cares about her, more than his quick thirst to repopulate the woren.
You didn't play the game, you're just aping off what I type, and it's pathetic.

>duel*.
Thank you.

>its still just dialogue options.
Reductionist BS. No argument against the forced loss.

>and that mentality is proof you have brainworms.
Says the guy that is just repeating himself with no argument, using revisionist and reductionist BS I might add.

>is ntr just "you didnt get what you want" in fewer words and with a sexual shame tacked on?
Clearly not, because otherwise I would've said as much. You have no ground to stand on and so you're trying to float strawman after strawman my way hoping that I'll take it up so you'll have *something,* *anything,* to justify your nonsense.

>she wasnt your girl to begin with. you're just a loser, not a cuck.
It doesn't even make sense for the lore. The dragon clan is one of the most powerful clans in the entire setting. I mean at least when Balio and Sunder beat the shit out of Ryu, Teepo, and Rei, they were adult thugs in their prime dealing with juvenile members of their respective clans.

(cont.)

>>12852391
>>12852393
>its literally the basis for tiga's obsession.
Which, again, if snipped out of the plot... nothing changes! Let it go, bro.

>yes it is. they are extremely rare and their clan is almost entirely destroyed.
And that thread is cut off when Tiga is killed and furthermore shown to be meaningless because Tiga doesn't impregnate Katt and yet Rei exists in the far flung future. You don't have an argument.

>you're failing to recognize the actual context of the relationship tiga has with claris.
You're failing to recognize the subtext or to acknowledge that any subtext exists at all, even when it's slapping you square in the face.

>as for plot relevance, yes the core plot would still happen the same,
Thank you. Why are we still talking about this then?

At least with the Balio and Sunder fight, if it were possible to truly win that first engagement, the plot would've taken a dramatically different turn elsewhere. Literally nothing related to the plot changes if it were possible to beat Tiga. Literally nothing. It adds nothing.

>katt LITERALLY tells tiga she doesnt feel love for him and tiga doesnt understand.
And is that why she agrees to stand be his side during the coming assault on the church? I mean, christ's sake, even when it's definitive NTR like a full-on Yoyo situation, it's not like Yoyo is thirsting for the man she ends up with at the start.

(cont.)

>>12852391
>>12852393
>it isnt until claris confesses her feelings that he understands, and then chooses claris.
Tell me you didn't play the game without telling me you didn't play the game.

What happened is that Habaruku/Hulk captured her and used her as bait to lure everybody out from hiding in the congregation. Claris tries to remain silent, but Hulk has demonic mind reading powers. It is through that Hulk reveals Claris's feelings for Tiga. Claris doesn't confess shit, revisionist. Even then Tiga doesn't rush to her aid. It's when Hulk indirectly accuses Tiga of only viewing Claris as his "subordinate" that Tiga decides to reveal himself and challenge Hulk. There is subtext here, even if you were to disagree and say I'm reading too much into it, clearly when Hulk says directly to Claris, "Wouldn't it be nice if Tiga, whom you love.. came to save you.. Claris," obviously Hulk and Claris both already know this because they're looking at the same set of thoughts and feelings residing in Claris's mind, and yet he's speaking directly to Claris as he says this. The SUBTEXT is at least that this message while directly given to Claris isn't actually for Claris.
So you can't argue that there's simply no subtext here, there is.

>you're literally just that jap guy running through the streets screaming SEEEEEEEX and focusing on make-believe ntr instead of whats actually happening and why.
Says the guy literally inventing bullshit that didn't happen. Tell us some more about how, "Claris confessed her feelings," anon. Go on, tell us all about your fanfiction, though I'd suggest actually playing the game first to get some material, lmfao.

>>12852396
I don't know what that other anon is talking about. This is the first BoF thread I've been in on /vr/. I usually frequent other boards.

I rarely ever talk about BoF1 or BoF2.

>>12852467
>>12852464
>>12852461
Hey I'm really sorry. You know what? You're right. I was wrong. And I was over the top with the brainworms thing. I'm really sorry about that. The game is in my backlog right now, I watched a big chunk of it though. And the reason the whole NTR thing is such a touchy subject is because me and my partner have gone through some ups and downs in the past. It's all in the past now but I hope you can be understanding of that and stop talking about NTR please? I really don't want to think about that right now.

>>12852562
... oh shit, anon.
I'm really sorry hear about that. Yeah, I'm good. I'm done.

So changing the subject, which BoF game is your guys' favorite in the series? IMO, BoF3 is the shining star of the lot. That dragon gene system can't be topped, so good

>>12852578
Bof3 is the best Jrpg. Bof1 was my baby first and I will protect it till I die. At least the Mrlb3 item works in it

>>12852584
Ah, brings me back. Me and my lil bro used to always play the BoF series together. We started with BoF2, didn't find BoF1 until the Gameboy Advance version came out, but us being stupid kids... man... we got to the point you're supposed to go back to the other side of the Wydnian bridge and we never figured out about how to use Sten to grip on the poles to get to the other side. Just never occurred to us.

We didn't end up finishing BoF2 because of that.
Sadly, we also didn't end up finishing BoF3 together because of a similar situation. We got all the way to the Desert of Death and because the directions the guide and his notes in the tent different we kept getting lost in the desert. We never pieced together that the notes in the tent tell us go the wrong direction, lol

Later on we both played the game separately and got through the game, but man. Those were the days...

>>12852461
>No argument against the forced loss.
you have no argument against it either. scripted fights happen. you lost a fight, not a fuck.
> lore.
>The dragon clan is one of the most powerful clans in the entire setting
none of that has literally any relevance to anything happening. she wasnt your girl to begin with. you can not refute that. losing a fight is not the same thing as getting cucked. you can not refute that.
>if you snip this out of the plot so we can ignore it, then i can ignore your valid point.
lmao critical thinking is obviously not your strong suit
>rei exists in the distant future because other woren fucked. therefore katt's and tiga's lives and experiences dont matter
see this is what im talking about. you literally do not care about reality, you will ignore or substitute any facts as necessary in order to fill your ntr worldview. a bunch of woren the next country over doesnt negate the fact that woren are rare and that katt and tiga are the only 2 you find in the entire game. you're ignoring these very real facts and character motivations in order to focus on your imposed "subtext" that isnt real.
>Literally nothing related to the plot changes if it were possible to beat Tiga. Literally nothing. It adds nothing.
correct. it adds nothing. including ntr. it does not add ntr.
>And is that why she agrees to stand be his side?
once again the brainworms have crippled your ability of media literacy, because all you can see is "NTR NTR NTR" at every turn. and again, i will remind you, katt is not "your girl".
>claris didnt say it, it was habaruku
sorry, my memory was a little fuzzy. regardless, it is this revelation and situation that makes tiga realize he cant marry katt and that claris means more to him.
>subtext
not really sure what you're focusing on here, but literally none of it is evidence of ntr or cucking.

>>12852467
>n-n-no im not like that guy
anything that remotely invokes a feeling of "jealousy" in you, you instantly leap to "ntr". you do not have a clear view of the world.

>>12852562
you're really bad at impersonating people.
>>12852578
and you're either samefagging or really bad at recognizing imposters.

This cucking argument makes me want to play the game so that I can analyze the situation for myself. I won't though, because it is boring. You lose, Breath of Fire series!

this thread devolved into 2 bots talking to each other

>>12853015
>sorry, my memory was a little fuzzy.
No no no.

The fact that Hulk can read Claris's mind means he read her mind prior, means he saw memories between her and Tiga, and these memories led him to believe by keeping Claris alive for a bit he could kill two bird with one stone. It is Hulk's mind reading abilities that kept Claris alive long enough to be presented during the congregation, otherwise he would've just killed her prior and shown her dead corpse to the congregation. His demonstration of his mind reading abilities aren't for Claris. They're not for the congregation either, they'd be satisfied with her public execution on the spot. No, no. It's all a coded message to Tiga. To draw him out.

It's a, "Look what I can do. I can pull out her name, her mission, I can see into her visual memories and see where your HQ is. I can even see what the two of you have been up to. Stop me, if you dare."

Tiga is a douchebag. Kind of like how Sten's a douchebag. Both tried to get Ryu out of the way to get at a lady. Tiga omitted that there was any connection between him and Claris before Katt. Just like he was smitten with Katt from first sight, but held that close for a bit before springing it. But in this game douchebags like Tiga and Sten aren't totally bad. They have moments of heroism. Habaruku talking about "exposing Claris's heart" is bullshit. He has mind reading powers, he already knows, Claris is already exposed. No, no. He's exposing Tiga's heart through the shared memories he can see that Claris had with Tiga. That's why the comment about "just a subordinate" is the knife twist. The fork-tongued demon knows there's more history than just that between the two characters. Otherwise? Tiga would not have taken that bait.

Anyway, I'm done with this. You argued in bad faith with your "fuzzy memory" and that's not cool, bro. Gigantic waste of time.

>>12854895
i have fuzzy memory around this because like i said earlier it's a touchy subject i really dont like to talk about. can we please drop it i'm so sorry

>>12851957
Shitposting aside, the whole scenario was retarded and totally came out of left field. They absolutely should have made it one of those fights you can win with enough grinding/good strategy. Tiga should have been a bro tier character but they made it weird and cringe

>>12854895
>saw memories between her and tiga
>they were already fucking, trust me bro.
you're really reaching.
>he kept her alive to draw tiga out
yes, this is a pretty standard tactic.
>exposing claris's heart is bullshit
its performative for the bait. thats all.
>he's exposing tiga's heart
he's really not. he's trying to make her look as desperate and pathetic as possible so that tiga will rescue her.
>just a subordinate
because all of their interactions have been that she's just a subordinate. it isnt until he is confronted with losing her that he realizes he cares much more deeply for her. and this isnt until AFTER he talks to katt about love. he's acting on impulse with katt, and katt has more emotional maturity to understand that it isnt love. tiga doesnt understand this, and just kind of brushes it off as something to either ignore or deal with later. but once he sees claris in danger, hears her true heart, sees the threat of losing her is real, it finally clicks for him. he understand what it means to love, why he cant marry katt, and how he values claris as much more than just a subordinate.

your media literacy is abysmal.

>You argued in bad faith
i got a minor detail wrong, and it changed nothing in the point. regardless, you've been rambling about this hyper specific thing, and literally none of it has anything to do with cucking or ntr. no part of this moment supports you initial claim. if you didnt have brainworms, you would be able to recognize that, but you're too dead set on forcing ntr into every corner of everything for no reason.

>>12855606
>saw memories between her and tiga
It's the only logical way for Hulk's plan to work because he doesn't have access to Tiga's mind and doesn't have any reason to believe Tiga would have such an epiphany for Claris otherwise.

>they were already fucking, trust me bro.
Strawman. It's a kid's game.

>he kept her alive to draw tiga out
>yes, this is a pretty standard tactic.
Yes, but there are certain mechanics for the trap to work that need to be in place.

>exposing claris's heart is bullshit
>its performative for the bait.
Yep.

>thats all.
Wrong.

>he's exposing tiga's heart
Yep, through Claris, which is telling.

>he's really not.
He really is.

>he's trying to make her look as desperate and pathetic as possible so that tiga will rescue her.
And what makes Hulk think that would work? So what Claris has a one-sided, unrequited, affection for Tiga up and until that point? How does that help Hulk draw Tiga out? Was a janitor cleaning the pews the other day and just happened to find the script for the narrative sitting there? Did he just turn it in to Hulk, and through it Hulk found out Claris was a spy and this ploy would just work to nab Tiga too? Convenient.

>just a subordinate
>because all of their interactions have been that she's just a subordinate.
If that were so, Claris is a dead corpse when the sermon starts.

>it isnt until he is confronted with losing her that he realizes he cares much more deeply for her.
Which is very convenient for Hulk's plan.
... how did Hulk surmise through Claris's memories that Tiga was likely to have this moment at this moment? How?

(cont.)

>>12855606
>and this isnt until AFTER he talks to katt about love.
Exactly.
Hulk has no idea Tiga has had any sort of feelings for Katt whatsoever. Had he, he might've reconsidered this scheme of his.

>he's acting on impulse with katt, and katt has more emotional maturity to understand that it isnt love. tiga doesnt understand this, and just kind of brushes it off as something to either ignore or deal with later.
Tiga is just a d-bag. Some girls like it. Like Claris.

>but once he sees claris in danger, hears her true heart, sees the threat of losing her is real, it finally clicks for him.
Which was crucial for Hulk's plan to work.
How did Hulk get the idea that his plan would actually be likely to work?

>he understand what it means to love, why he cant marry katt,
Yeah, because Hulk-a-Mania got to him.

>and how he values claris as much more than just a subordinate.
But what in Claris's memories would give Hulk that impression as he's setting this trap up before the sermon?

>your media literacy is abysmal.
I can't tell if you're trolling or legitimately incapable of just taking your premises and leading them to a logical conclusion.

>i got a minor detail wrong
No, it wasn't a minor detail.

>and it changed nothing in the point
The point here is whether or not Tiga had Claris as a main squeeze before Katt, it's in the subtext of the scene, but if you bulldoze over the basic elements of the scene? Well then you miss the memo here because none of the subtext necessarily fits anymore.

(cont.)

>>12855606

>regardless, you've been rambling about this hyper specific thing
Because you keep strawmanning, """misremembering,""" and otherwise being an over-amped contrarian.

>and literally none of it has anything to do with cucking or ntr.
Again, the thread gets cut off prematurely with Tiga's death.

>no part of this moment supports you initial claim.
It does. You're just strawmanning and """misremembering."""

>if you didnt have brainworms, you would be able to recognize that, but you're too dead set on forcing ntr into every corner of everything for no reason.
If you scroll back up and look at my first 3 posts, this whole NTR bit of the game was a very minor side point, and I even framed the NTR as a "little NTR." I never said that the NTR stretches across the entire game. It's a complete and total misrepresentation of what I'm saying.

>>12855707
>doesn't have any reason to believe Tiga would have such an epiphany for Claris otherwise
or he's just using the closest person to him as bait. its LITERALLY that simple. the "epiphany" is a non-issue for the demon's motivations.
>>they were already fucking, trust me bro.
>Strawman
it was literally your argument earlier that tiga and claris were "clearly" more than casual.
>certain mechanics for the trap to work that need to be in place
like basic empathy and a desire to protect people you care about.
>a bunch of bullshit displaying how illiterate you still are
grim.
>And what makes Hulk think that would work?
basic empathy and a desire to protect people you care about. it is an incredibly common tactic and trope. sometimes its a complete stranger. maybe some random kid. "you wouldnt want this innocent child to get hurt, would you?!" its literally that simple.
>Claris has a one-sided, unrequited, affection for Tiga up and until that point?
yes.
>How does that help Hulk draw Tiga out?
its irrelevant to the trap, and only relevant to the plot of tiga's character development, because thats what triggers him to finally understand what actual love is.
>If that were so, Claris is a dead corpse when the sermon starts.
there you go again, denying reality to substitute whatever fits your weird, corrupted worldview.
>how did Hulk surmise through Claris's memories that Tiga was likely to have this moment at this moment?
your assumption of this is so hilariously wrong. he could pick any subordinate, but the further they are from the target, the more likely it is that might be seen as expendable. so if we take the #1 subordinate, maybe that holds enough value to draw him out. oh, whats this? she loves him too? she's so utterly devoted to him, how will he reward such loyalty? he just has to value her enough for the bait to work. it doesnt NEED to be romantic love in order to work. you're retarded for not understanding that.

>>12855708
seriously, everything else that you ramble on about in regards to this imaginary "subtext" and the notion that hulk's plan "depends" on tiga's romantic love for claris is retarded and worthless. its literally a basic hostage situation. its the closest hostage to the target he could use. thats it. imposing a romantic backstory is retarded. doubly so when the read memories LITERALLY show that she was treated as just a subordinate. she FELT like she was treated as just a subordinate. it was literally a one-sided crush up until that point. you are completely illiterate to ignore that. good job proving that you have holes and rot in your brain from brainworms.
>I even framed the NTR as a "little NTR."
its still wrong though, because its zero.
i misremembered the exact method of HOW the information comes out. i thought she spoke it, i forgot that hulk dictated the whole thing. however, the method of how the facts come out is irrelevant.

>>12854895
>It's all a coded message to Tiga. To draw him out.

Never played this far into the game myself but this sounds a few levels too subtle for SNES-era JRPG writers. I'm gonna go ahead and conclude (without evidence) that the actual sequence is just some shallow melodrama like everything else in that type of game always seems to be, and that you are overreaching here

>>12855753
its literally a basic hostage as bait situation, using his #1 subordinate. its literally just using the #2 resistance member to try and draw out the #1. its as basic as you can get.

>>12855732
>or he's just using the closest person to him as bait.
Oh that's for sure. How you think this is a mutually exclusive "or" is anybody's guess.

>its LITERALLY that simple.
... I've been saying this the entire time. That Claris is one of the closest people to Tiga. Where is this "or" coming from?
... are you conceding the point...?
Like what in the hell are you doing?

>the "epiphany" is a non-issue for the demon's motivations.
But what are the demon's motivations here? Kill Claris, kill Tiga, and otherwise eliminate the resistance. Killing Claris upon capture is very straightforward, and Hulk has every inclination to do it. Unless there's something better to be gained by not immediately eliminating her. Which is the point. Hulk is counting on Tiga to do something stupid, which falls under the demon's motivations, and is thus an issue of importance.

>it was literally your argument earlier that tiga and claris were "clearly" more than casual.
I didn't say their activities were posted on furaffinity. You keep altering my words into what they weren't, and keep strawmanning by doing so. It just exposes the weakness of your position each time you do it.

>like basic empathy and a desire to protect people you care about.
Ryu has that in spades, even for innocent bystanders, and yet he's sitting like a lump during the sermon. Almost as if Hulk's words were meant to reach someone else. Almost.

>a bunch of bullshit displaying how illiterate you still are
>grim
I'll take that non-argument as the concession it is, because your posting history is abundantly clear: If you think you have an edge on me in any capacity you push on it hard, not give a vague hand-wave, and here you got nada. Nothing.

(cont.)

>>12855732
>And what makes Hulk think that would work?
>basic empathy and a desire to protect people you care about.
Doesn't work. Plenty of weaklings feel such things and let atrocities happen. And let's say so for Tiga. So Hulk brings Claris down, she's obviously in peril on sight, why doesn't Tiga spring into action then and there?

>it is an incredibly common tactic and trope.
Mmhmm. And yet you're struggling hard here.

>sometimes its a complete stranger.
Yep, and if that's the route they're going they don't need any mention of Claris's feelings toward Tiga, nor do they need to emphasize the "just a subordinate." The scene is crafted just so for a reason.

>Claris has a one-sided, unrequited, affection for Tiga up and until that point?
>yes.
>How does that help Hulk draw Tiga out?
>its irrelevant to the trap
So in a parallel world, Hulk pulls this stunt, Tiga looks over at Katt instead, and thinks to himself, "Hmm. Well, she knew the risks. Sorry Claris," and Hulk goes to all this trouble for nothing.
Suuuuuuuuuure.

(cont.)

>>12855732
>and only relevant to the plot of tiga's character development, because thats what triggers him to finally understand what actual love is.
It's also relevant to trap being sprung.

>If that were so, Claris is a dead corpse when the sermon starts.
Yeah. P'much. Extract the location of the HQ and then put her head on a pike. No reason to think Tiga would expose himself for just a subordinate.

>there you go again, denying reality to substitute whatever fits your weird, corrupted worldview.
You just can't seem to follow logical conclusions.

(cont.)

>>12855732
>how did Hulk surmise through Claris's memories that Tiga was likely to have this moment at this moment?
>your assumption of this is so hilariously wrong.
Oh do tell.

>he could pick any subordinate,
... like look at this insanity. You're so brain-broken that you just got done attempting, and failing, to rake me over the coals for "denying reality to substitute in whatever" and here you are denying the reality that Hulk didn't have access to pick just any subordinate. Ya hypocrite.

>but the further they are from the target, the more likely it is that might be seen as expendable.
'kay.

>so if we take the #1 subordinate, maybe that holds enough value to draw him out. oh, whats this? she loves him too? she's so utterly devoted to him, how will he reward such loyalty?
Read that again.
No, re-read that again.
You're like a trained little contrarian monkey that just must, simply *MUST*, be contrarian that even when you're trying to yell at scream at me how the sky is red, you can't help but paint a picture of the sky being blue.

Literally can't make this shit up.

>he just has to value her enough for the bait to work. it doesnt NEED to be romantic love in order to work. you're retarded for not understanding that.
Nope, not quite.
A spy that's been exposed to the enemy isn't valuable to the cause in at least in that function anymore and goes straight to the notion of being seen as expendable. Now of course there's more to a person than just their occupation, granted, however, the deeper you lean on that angle for justification, the closer you lean toward non-occupational connections.

Man, had a good chuckle with this one. I'm going to bed for the night. Whew.

>>12849084
it gets good when you finish it and start Breath of Fire III

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>>12849084
Get the XP hack, played this when I was 7 and it was indeed tiringly grindy, make it 10 or 20x times the xp if you want to be honest.

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i like it for the story first and foremost
with the bad ending

>>12855794
>A spy that's been exposed to the enemy isn't valuable to the cause in at least in that function anymore and goes straight to the notion of being seen as expendable. Now of course there's more to a person than just their occupation, granted, however, the deeper you lean on that angle for justification, the closer you lean toward non-occupational connections.
you are putting about a thousand times as much thought into this as the original writers did

>>12855785
lmao, you've been harping on "they have a relationship already. claris is tiga's main squeeze" and "hulk knows this and how its the only way to draw tiga out" even though its completely wrong.
hulk doesnt know shit. he's using an extremely basic hostage situation. he's rambling on and on, hoping that each new line is the one that draws tiga out. he doesnt "know" tiga's feelings. you're giving him too much credit.
>but then why doesnt ryu act?
lmao because its not his scene. writing can be flawed, you know. you're taking it entirely too seriously.
>why doesn't Tiga spring into action then and there?
>parallel world where the bait doesnt work
and this right here is exactly the proof that you're illiterate. you're unable to reconcile the irrelevance of the circumstances with "but it worked". you seriously have a CRIPPLING form of autism. you cant understand a basic scene. you impose grandeur where it doesnt exist. you impose weird fetish shit where it doesnt exist. you're completely unhinged.
>>12855794
>re-read that again.
maybe you should. you're the one denying simple reality. you're the one screaming that love was known even though it wasnt.

and for all of this crippling autism and hyperfixation on this LITERALLY imaginary "subtext", none of it supports your retarded "ntr" claim.
>>12857036
autism with brainworms is a hell of a drug.

>>12857036
Oh don't I know it.
I make 3 posts that was largely about the general poor nature of the writing of the game, I make a very small side comment about Tiga, and all of a sudden I'm jumped and attacked from all sides with a hyper fixation on this bit about Tiga and this bit alone. Everything else I said, apparently, above board and great. Just not the Tiga bit. I just made the slightest, teensiest, criticism about the Tiga segment of the game and other anon over there had the biggest conniption about it.

The guy probably wears tiger slippers, has commissioned posters of Tiga and plastered them all over his walls, has a Tiga body pillow lying in his bed, has made it his life mission not to wear pants like Katt in order to be more enticing to Tiga...
It's the only rational explanation for why he wont drop it and leave me alone.

>>12857125
Right on cue.

>lmao, you've been harping on "they have a relationship already. claris is tiga's main squeeze" and "hulk knows this and how its the only way to draw tiga out" even though its completely wrong.
Oh thank god, we have some new material. Okay, go on.

>hulk doesnt know shit.
The plot thickens. How do you figure?

>he's using an extremely basic hostage situation. he's rambling on and on, hoping that each new line is the one that draws tiga out. he doesnt "know" tiga's feelings. you're giving him too much credit.
It would be an extremely basic hostage situation if not for the mind reading, and this ability of Hulk's is both a blessing and a curse for the plot, because without it the scene doesn't make sense, but because of it the internal logic twists and contorts until it finally rests on precious few logical outcomes.

How so?

For example, so obviously Hulk can read Claris's mind. If he can read it now he could read it earlier without evidence to the contrary. The fact that Claris is already captured at the start of the sermon means Hulk has time and opportunity to read Claris's mind earlier and this logically means the sermon is for complete show, Hulk already knows exactly what he's doing as he's doing it.

(cont.)

>>12857125
This also causes other logical blockades.

Like for example, why didn't Hulk conduct a sneak attack on resistance HQ? By the time Tiga rocks up to the Grand Church he has no idea Claris is captured nor that Hulk can and has already read her mind. A sneak attack could easily kill Tiga and many resistance members. It's not like this tactic is some mastermind, 300+IQ, chess move. It's not like this isn't already something basic villains do in these types of stories.

... is there anything in the demon's motivations that precludes this...? ... no...

Is Hulk a moron and just didn't think of it? ... well no, otherwise his trap doesn't work with Tiga, so he's not written to be a moron.

So logically he must've thought about it and chose this sermon scheme as the better use of his tools and resources. Damn, girl, what is in Claris's memories that make that the better choice?

(cont.)

>lmao because its not his scene. writing can be flawed, you know. you're taking it entirely too seriously.
My ultimate point: The general poor quality of writing in the game.

Nevertheless, that's a copout.

>and this right here is exactly the proof that you're illiterate. you're unable to reconcile the irrelevance of the circumstances with "but it worked". you seriously have a CRIPPLING form of autism. you cant understand a basic scene. you impose grandeur where it doesnt exist.
No, no, no.
I mentioned numerous times how I think the plot would be better off with the Tiga segment removed, I used how Rei exists in the far-flung future to justify that the writing is poor, and what in the blueberry hell did you say to me? Let's go scroll back up and refresh our memories:

(cont.)

>>12857125
>>12853015
Your strawman:
>if you snip this out of the plot so we can ignore it, then i can ignore your valid point.
Your brilliant rebuttal of the strawman:
>lmao critical thinking is obviously not your strong suit
So to be sure, we can't ignore the plot. We must deal with what's in front of us. Otherwise we're "ignoring valid points."

It gets better:
Your strawman:
>rei exists in the distant future because other woren fucked. therefore katt's and tiga's lives and experiences dont matter
>see this is what im talking about. you literally do not care about reality, you will ignore or substitute any facts as necessary in order to fill your ntr worldview. a bunch of woren the next country over doesnt negate the fact that woren are rare and that katt and tiga are the only 2 you find in the entire game. you're ignoring these very real facts and character motivations in order to focus on your imposed "subtext" that isnt real.
Buddy. Pal. In order for you to say all of what you're saying to me now you have to ignore the plot, ignore Hulk's motivations, and you've gone so far as to ignore the very real facts of the character of Hulk's mind reading ability by stating, "hulk doesn't know shit."

Like you wanted so bad to have a plot debate with me and are just mad that you're now losing it.

>you're completely unhinged.
You're the pigeon on my chessboard.

>maybe you should. you're the one denying simple reality. you're the one screaming that love was known even though it wasnt.
I'm still waiting for that explanation about that mutually exclusive "or." Where is it? Why are you hiding from it?

>and for all of this crippling autism and hyperfixation on this LITERALLY imaginary "subtext"
The hyperfixation is yours. Stop replying and see what happens.

what the fuck

>>12849084
It really doesn't. It's probably the worst game in the series besides that one mobile game that nobody cares about.