The gap in functionality between these two consoles is so big that i don't think they are in the same generation.
>vagueposting
What does a big mistake sega whatever yet about my friends about dreamcast
>>12873183What functionality, exactly? Why do you start shitty, vague threads like this?
>>12873193That's the only way zoomers can make threads on /vr/, since they refuse to play video games.
I think he's talking about the ps2 playing dvds
>>12873216Are you trying to claim you play video games?
>>12873183Yeah, the Dreamcast had sharp high resolution graphics and the PS2 had Vaseline smears.
>>12873183The gap isn't that big. It's like half a generation difference. Kinda like the Genesis and the Sega CD.
>>12873183>i don't think they are in the same generation.Consolefags are obsessed with this arbitrary bullshit lol
>>12873183Dreamcast had anti aliasing, built in VGA, built in internet modem...First time SEGA really made good hardware since 1988 and it literally could emulate it's most sold competitor at the time of it's launch.Everything gone to shit because of bad performance of previous products and fake expectations about muh PS2 Toy Story graphics and The Matrix on DVD
AgreedDreamcast was 6th gen, PS2 was 5.5 at best
>>12873183>The gap in functionality between these two consoles is so big that i don't think they are in the same generation.
>>12873183Oh they're the same generation alright. You're just angry because Dead Or Alive 2 looks better on a Dreamcast than it does on PS2. In all honesty, Dreamcast was great and had a great library of games. PS2 is just a glorified DVD player that can play games. If I wanted the most powerful 6th gen console, the Xbox would be my go to. Not the PS2. Hell even the Nintendo Gamecube is way more powerful than a PS2.Also I love my graphics to look sharp and high resolution, which Dreamcast delivered on with it's VGA output.
>>12873183ps2 had dvd for more storagedreamcast had online play and an internet browser to look at hentai/porn, and honestly dreamcast graphics looked better.idk why ps2 had all those scanline modes that look like shit. maybe they were a cheat to make games run better.
>backlit screen>games in color>could play master system gamesThe gap in functionality between these two consoles is so big that i don't think they are in the same generation.
>>12873271>Dreamcast had anti aliasinglol
>>12873297PS2 had more games to play than all of Sega's consoles combined. DC has a couple of good exclusives but be real it was mostly prettier PS1 and N64 games.
>>12873183>4mb usable VRAM>480iAgreed, PS2 is a slouch. 1st & 2nd wave games have N64 textures, grey * brown motion blur sloppa>>12873242Yep, no-cost hardware FSAA, 480p, VGA support, 8mb usable VRAM. Image quality king, aged like fine wine.
>>12873350That number doesn't really mean Anything to you. You just throw it out when you want to win the argument, you probably have the same 50 PS2 everyone else has
>>12873367well the other consoles dont have 50 good games so number is in fact king.
>>12873271>>12873332>>12873360The Dreamcast using anti-aliasing is largely a myth. People mistake the flicker filter used when outputting at 480i for anti-aliasing as it softens the image. Games could render at a higher resolution like 1280x480 and downsample to 640x480 but only a few actually did it. I've been able to find are Omikron The Nomad Soul, Ready 2 Rumble Boxing and Wacky Races.
>>12873380>a few actually did it. I've been able to find are Omikron The Nomad Soul, Ready 2 Rumble Boxing and Wacky Races.Considering it was a short-lived console I don't think this is bad
>>12873367Hey I like the fact GameCube and Dreamcast are the last true game only consoles by a game only company. It makes them more interesting to go back to, but to ignore reality is just foolish.
>>12873373>>12873389Wow you really done turned the table on my comment anons. To be conscious is to be alive. You cannot follow complex arguments without high consciousness
The Dreamcast had better quality video out, a fixed architecture kinda like a PC, 16MB RAM and a modem included by defaultThe PS2 had a DVD drive, twice the RAM, and a harder to program for but more flexible architecture. It also had some modern IO like USB, firewire, and a hdd option, but these went mostly unused because muh DRM
>>12873389dreamcast could play music CDs and browse the web. not exactly "game only"
>>12873350I don't care about the number of games PS2 had, I found some of those same titles on other consoles(Gamecube, Xbox). So when Dreamcast was out of the console race, I bought a Gamecube and then an Xbox later. Including HD remasters of several PS2 only titles on my Xbox 360. Wasn't really missing out on much.Dreamcast overall still had better games on the system. In fact I own more Dreamcast games than I do any other retro console. Most of those titles I enjoyed aren't on PS1 or N64. You clearly haven't explored the Dreamcast's entire library of games.
>>12873183The PS2 would shit its pants trying to run Shenmue due to only having 4mb of VRAM and an underwhelming GPUThe Dreamcast would shit its pants trying to run Gran Turismo 4 due to only having 16MB of RAM and a much slower CPUBoth systems were neat in their own ways and have good games. Console warring for systems that have been dead longer than you've been alive is retarded. Just mow some lawns or get a McJob and buy both of them. You can buy a Network Adapter and softmod a fat PS2 or buy and ODE for any Dreamcast and never pay for a single game. Or you can just emulate everything for free.
>>12873456It could also run VCDs (a precursor to DVDs) with a boot disc, but these were only popular in Asia. I lived in the US but the first time I ever saw The Phantom Menace was on a pirated VCD that I got from a friend. Buying pirated VCD movies for like $10 each from a guy who knew a guy and then watching them on a Dreamcast at night was definitely a vibe.The video quality was 240p (so about on par with VHS on most TVs) and each disc was limited to 80 minutes so you'd have to switch discs partway through the movie. You had CD quality audio though, which was nice.
>>12873431yeah but i like that the ps2 version runs at 60fps and has a massive vibrator for my gf
>>12873456I meant they became more computer like systems. While it didn't amount to much at the time PS2 was marketed as upgradeable every changing multimedia system. This feature is actually how you are able to soft mod now with just a memory card and hard drive.
>>12873275the PSX was a superior machine, truly ahead of the N64 with its shitty 64mb cartridges and lack of audio chips and video decoding chips
>>12873464>PS2 would shit its pants trying to run Shenmuelol
>>12873479>please insert D3: The Mighty Ducks: D3 (Disc 3)
>>12873275Yes, one is a loading screen simulator, the other plays games
I consider the Dreamcast to be its own generation, or the earliest attempt at having a console that functioned like a limited PC which wouldn't be repeated until the PS4 was released.
the dreamcast would have done better with a normal controller.
>>12873572>which wouldn't be repeated until the PS4 was released.I kek’d
Extremely low quality thread. OP is a fag
>>12873564>sub 15 FPS blurry mess with 32x32 smeared texturesWhat a technical showpiece.
>>12873582I mean, it wouldn't. The og Xbox had too little RAM so any PC ports it received were "impossible ports," and Sony attempts at having an open platform ended nearly immediately with Linux PS3 being patched out.It was the PS4 era where we first started to see current PC games get ported and also see many current console games get simultaneous PC releases.Dreamcast was the first console that had current PC games released as ports with almost full functionality compared to the PC originals.
PS2 had the fillrate, polygons and vram speed on a budget, just lacked texture compression, which caused the dirty output. It didn't even need mipmapping. Compare FF12 to any Gamecube or Xbox game
>>12873620>that low resolution ground texture stretched across the low poly staircaseLooks like a fan made map for Quake or something, a bad one.
>>12873183both are 128bits.
>>12873439>twice the RAMWhich it could use only a fraction of as vram, though after a while devs mastered streaming from disc so it became irrelevant
>>12873620PS2 did push loads of polygons, no disputing that. + Bloom & other post fx. Looked great in SotC & ICO. Lacked the shaders of GC & XBOX which hurt the Psychonauts PS2 port
>>12873619>Dreamcast was the first console that had current PC gamesPS1 had Descent, Blizzard games, LucasArts games, Doom, Duke3D, Worms, GTA, often with extra content than PC.
>>12874207And X-Com and Civilization 2 and Hexen and Quake 2. There's actually a crazy amount of current PC games on the thing.I wouldn't recommend playing most of them these days because it has to load all of that shit straight from the disc, but at the time for someone without a decent PC, it must have been amazing.
>>12873652>>12873652>both are 128bits.Bits don't mean shit. PS2 was 64-bit, Dreamcast, Gamecube and Xbox were 32-bit.
>>12874175Wouldn't the much higher speed of the vram and system ram mean that the size isn't that important
>>12873564The effects are neat but the overall world is basically empty compared to shenmue
>>12874249Eventually devs did discover this, but only after a few waves of games released early on with some very muddy textures. After that it was smooth sailing
>>12873479If you were on IRC back then you could find where to download both VCD movies (and TV shows, and pornos) and Dreamcast games. VCD was the popular format in the early days because cheap shitty DVD players, Apex being the famous brand, could play them. SVCD which had better quality was used too which as far as I know couldn't be played on a Dreamcast. I used to burn Dreamcast games and take them to my friend's house and we would play for hours. I also watched the telecine version of Kill Bill on SVCD at his house after he found an Apex DVD player in the dumpster of his apartment building. Good times. We did have the Dreamcast VCD player burned on a disc but I don't remember it working that great. I ended up giving it to this other kid we knew that had a DC from school along with a porno VCD I burned but didn't like.
Which is why Dreamcast belongs on /vr/ and PS2/GCN/XBX do not.
>>12874252Shenmue is a PS1 game in terms of technology and complexity. A corridor game.Sotc is a technical milestoneI’d say the Dreamcast could actually manage to run the game at 1 fps, but the hardware would likely fry its transistors during the very first loop function.
>>12874346Shenmue was launched before the PS2 was launched. The Dreamcast was launched in 1998.
>>12873183In the end, it wasn't Nintendo who beat Sega in the console wars, it was Sony and the PS2. That's how fucking good that console was. Nobody mentions how good the PS2 controller was for any game. It wasn't the best for much, but it could play anything and not sacrifice contrallability since it had enough buttons, and they were all analog too. Sega was so inept, they released 3D console over three years after the N64 and it only had one fucking analog stick. That along with Sony having a DVD player and riding off the success of the PS1 and not making any blunders with the PS2 cemented the fate of Sega, Xbox and Nintendo that generation. No wonder it's the best selling console of all-time. Don't even me started on the games, starting off with GTAIII and the phenomenon that started...
>>12873183Dreamcast was this weird half generate thing like what the Wii U was to the 360/PS3
>>12873380>Games could render at a higher resolution like 1280x480 and downsample to 640x480 but only a few actually did itwhat was so confusing about this? even the PS1 did this at 512x240
They both play games. What's the problem?
>runs 480p on ps2did a wizard do this
>>12873271>and The Matrix on DVDmatrix replaced twister as the go-to DVD to show off what DVDs could do. Every new TV purchase or home theater system install from 1998-2004 used one of those two DVDs to break in the new hardware. Every high end electroncis shop you went into had one of those movies on infinite loop. Sometimes a pixar film mid afternoon for families. Eventually return of the king extended edition became the new benchmark. RoTK was the god of DVDs until bluray arrived. tl;drI did not know a single PS2 owner in its prime that did not own a copy of matrix on DVD. It was like buying a second controller for the console, you just did it.
>>12873195did you have a stroke
>>12874448640x480. not true 480p (which is 720x480).and it also sacrifices color fidelity going for 16bit color, notice the dithering to cheat more colors.still looks pretty clean for ps2.pic related is a direct screenshot from ps2 i took years ago using a fork of opl that could save screenshots.
Nobody really cared, back in the day relatively fewer people had a Dreamcast. Coming off the heels of so many dismal cash grabs by Segay, neither devs nor the user base had much confidence left in the company. PS2 had more, and more good games. Simple as. And Sega pooped out and gave up. Sega's rightful place is making games for other people's hardware. That's where they wound up and it's their own doing, too.Another issue with these threads is everybody compares multiplats, but the PS2 generally had mid multiplats, they just weren't going to be as good as a game made for and on the PS2 due to its super demanding architecture, so what's really being compared is the middleware engines they were starting to use back in those days, or the dexterity of the porters who were usually not the same devs as the original team anyway.The best of the PS2 games look excellent today. Comparing multiplats is a type of implicit cope.
PS2 kept up with Xbox 360, PS3 and obsoleted the Wii on release. GameCube and Xbox didn't. PS2 won. 2000-2013
the dreamcattle are still seething? not even a 1,5 year gap between these consoles, yet the ps2 was technologically ahead by decades
pftttthahahahhaahaa OH NO NO NO NO LOOK AT THE TOP OF HIS HEAD
Xbox and GameCube couldn't handle MGS2. PS2 could. Just compare the OG with Twin Snakes and Xbox MGS2. Sony knew what they were doing with the VUs and Emotion Engine.
>>12873212Uhh a hard drive slot.
>>12874764xbox mgs2 was a half assed port there is zero reason the xbox had frame dropsthe gamecube only really had frame drops during the picture in picture scenes and that was because it was made by shiticone knights
>>12874780Cutscenes aside, nothing in Twin Snakes looked on par with anything in MGS2. Xbox's increased RAM or Nvidia GPU didn't save it. Just couldn't handle the polygons.
>>12874785i find twin snakes more aesthetically pleasing than the big shelltanker looks nice though
Dreamcast can't even run Mario 64 without slowdowns.
>>12874798The n64 can barely run mario64 without slowdown and running at around 15-20fps. What exactly is your point?
>>12874181>hurt the Psychonauts PS2 portWas definitely too much for the PS2 to handle, needed more significant redoing of the environments. Still it's telling that the game is 30fps instead of 60 on xbox. I remember reading it's easier to get 60fps on PS2 with all the programming you're required to do but with Xbox getting beyond 30 requires lots of cuts.
>>12873464>The PS2 would shit its pants trying to run Shenmue>picture of San Andreas
>>12873564The PS2 couldn't handle Lucky Hit. Everyone knows this.
>>12873320Game Boy has Pokémon.
>>12873464>The PS2 would shit its pants trying to run Shenmue due to only having 4mb of VRAM and an underwhelming GPUDude, the PlayStation 2 can run GTA San Andreas!
Did you know that, despite being unable to run Shenmue, the Playstation 2 can run Grand Theft Auto: San Andreas?
One is a dvd player and one isn't. There is a much larger leap going from PS2 to Xbox.
>>12873564>12 fps
>>12874252This.>>12874346>the hardware would likely fry its transistors during the very first loop function.Wrong. You don't know how hardware works.
>>12874761not even beta port VS downgraded version of a Gamecube game?there's 2 ports in the making. GC like and PS2 like btw
>>12874428With my post here in mind I'm going to say what I really feel about this. The Dreamcast belongs to this console generation but it was more like the prototype of it. Things like the modem and broadband adapter put it ahead of what the PS2 was doing at launch. All the homebrew and emulation activity on the console was groundbreaking. No console got anything better until the Xbox scene took off and that was damn near PC hardware. PS2 homebrew was never as good as DC even after years later it got hacked eight ways from Sunday. GC only caught up because of how easy the Wii was to hack and all the people doing stuff in GC mode on it so it was a whole other gen before that got good. If you had a Dreamcast and knew how to burn a CDI image you definitely didn't feel like you wasted your money.
>>12875395>hl2 on the xbox>ugly downgraded port >10 fps >superb, xbox, superb!>shadow of the colossus, a mind blowing technical game on the ps2 >12 fps>omg, ps2 sucksThis is your sony derangement syndrome speaking
>>12873579What was a normal controller in 1997-1999?
>>12875575
>>12875585not normal yet. realease it doesn't mean it was mainstream or anything. by that logic the maracas and fishing rod for DC would have been the new standard on release.the issue here is that basically no game used the 2nd analog until like 2002. gta3 and RE4 barely use them for example
>>12875739i guess growing up with this game skewed my perception. between this and ape escape, dual analog controls were the norm for meiirc spyro 2 supported them too?
>>12875559Adding to your post. SotC was upfront about being a gimmick to show off PS2 polygon counts, it didn't really need a high framerate and was designed around it. Xbox HL2 came out back when new PC hardware pushed $1000 and moved up a generation every 2-4 years. It was all understandable late gen stuff back then.
>>12875381Yet there's no Xbox game that touches God of War 2
>>12875891I bet you if I throw a bunch of tokens at decomping and porting that fucker it will look way better on the xbox even before optimization for the hardware starts.
>>12875902Like every other PS2 to Xbox port, the textures and output will look cleaner but the framerate tanks because it still can't render it as fast as the Emotion Engine did on its original visuals.
>>12875908That could be fixed with optimization. You're assuming capability based on the half hearted rush job ports of the era while bringing up a first party game from fucking 2007. It's hilarious.
PS1-3 were all futureproofed.PS1 had 2x cdrom and GTE coprocessor, which beat the n64 and saturn respectively and took over the failed 16 bit system with cdrom drive and limited color palette niche.PS2 ripped through rendering bottlenecks with VUs and EE for 13 years.PS3 had 6 FPUs.Sony won.
I was a Sega fan so I have no loyalty to any other console manufacturer from that gen or the ones that come after. I think the Xbox is the most capable console of that generation based on my experience when it comes to owning and using all four. It's a shame it was built to die with those shitty Taiwanese capacitors. Microsoft didn't figure out how to build a console that isn't a time bomb until 2008.
>>12875918>half hearted rush job ports of the eraStill better than your vibecoded AI slop. >>12874761
>>12875935Most multiplats were better on the 360. I didn't bother with the PS3 until it got hacked and was cheaper. It was a better piracy experience, I'll give it that. Early PS3s are just as shitty as early 360s when it comes to reliability but unfortunately Sony removed features from the later models, Microsoft added features. A Frankensteined PS3 is highly desirable but you'll pay out the ass for the privilege of owning one.
>>12875936all capacitors fail
>>12875948You're not wrong but the ones used in Xboxes are famous for leaking and destroying the boards. So basically if you want to buy one you want to hunt down one that still works and get it taken care of ASAP.
>>12875950Being willing to repair these things is inevitable as they age. It's not as hard as some want you to believe.
>>12875954It all depends on how severe the damage actually is. If you dip into the e-waste pool hoping for an easy fix it project it's a gamble.
>>12875964That's literal explosion damage, not from a failing capacitor.
>>12875965Understand that these capacitors don't just fail. They leak. So if your board is corroded as a result you'll need to repair the traces. There are many such cases out there in the wild. Finding a cheap Xbox that doesn't turn on is almost as easy as finding a cheap red ringed 360, but perhaps not as worthless if you're willing to take it on.
>>12875971Understand that the only part that does anything besides the clock capacitor in that area of the circuit is c7g6, which still has its via in tact and can be jumped easily to its circuit. Despite being damage from an explosive burn instead of chemical corrosion several of the circuits there aren't connected to anything or are salvageable. That damage you're posting is not from leaking, with leaves a sticky residue that coats the corner of the board and turns joints into greenish-brown.
>>12875981See https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Capacitor_plague
>>12875989https://consolemods.org/wiki/Xbox:Clock_Capacitor#Repairing_a_Damaged_Tracehere this will be helpful for fixing your problem
>>12873320>>could play master system gamesreally? do the cartridges fit?
>>12875739>>12875745The more you people talk about controllers like that the more I wanna make a youtube video about the right analog stick.
>>12873562>the PSX was a superior machineThe characters in MGS don’t even have any faces.
>>12873619>The og Xbox had too little RAM so any PC ports it received were "impossible ports," and Sony attempts at having an open platform ended nearly immediately with Linux PS3 being patched out.this is false>It was the PS4 era where we first started to see current PC games get portedThis is false too.>Dreamcast was the first console that had current PC games released as ports with almost full functionality compared to the PC originals.this is false too.
>>12875887>source engine>next genlolhttps://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CZ1wZkuDJ8oThis engine was built around optimization to allow as many people as possible to play the next counter strike.Took a year for Valve to port the game to run on Xbox hardware. There's nothing impressive about this port to justify the bad frame rate.
>>12876245Xbox was still average 2001 hardware. It's not going to run HL2's object count and late 2004 PC dynamic lighting at full framerate. You need a PS2 for that.
>>12873562>64mb cartridgesPSX games are notoriously huge, I don't know what your point is, discs were the beginning of the end (the digital era) and have aged like shit when trying to put them in storage for emulation.>audio chipWorks on my machine
>>12873231I played Mario 2 once and had quite enough after that.
>>12873183but can either of them run truxton?
>>12876552Based and bluelaserpilled
>>12876552Yes, via emulator. I'd assume you could play it on both of them.
>>12873183That's not fair, the ps2 had a couple good games.
>>12873562>audio chips and video decoding chipsthe n64's cpu had enough raw power to do all of the audio via software and still have time shuffle tremendous amounts of data around at the same time. a dedicated audio chip wouldn't have changed anything. it still would have sounded like ass. everything the snes could do in hardware the n64 could do in software and using 16-32 stereo channels or something. n64 is capable of great audio. every game developer back then was severely limited by rom space.
>>12876997Some later N64 games made use of mp3 audio. If Nintendo had licensed the technology and distributed a usable decoder to developers it might be somewhat of a different story since as a codec it is useful given the constraints.
It can never be topped on how cool and iconic the memory card alone was.
>>12876293hl2 didnt have full dynamic lighting until after the episode 2 additions got back ported
>>12877437It was pretty cool
>>12876997Incredible how Nintendo saw NEC, SEGA, themselves before pulling the plug on the SONY deal, SONY, Atari, Commodore, Panasonic and SNK do optic discs before them and then decided to launch a cartridge based console. They really got carried by their IPs that generation.
>>12873183The gap between your age and the age required is so big
>>12873297Fuck you, PlayStation 2 is THE BEST SELLING CONSOLE of ALL TIME!!!
>>12873572>Dreamcast to be the earliest attempt at having a console that functioned like a limited PC
>>12878682It only sold well because of the DVD function.
>>12878690I think there were some media center applications Microsoft did for the Xbox. But they didn't really aim for that with the console even though I think that is what Bill Gates originally wanted. Web browser etc wasn't really something they tried to do with it. Modders took advantage of the hardware of both the Dreamcast and Xbox but Sega had more of a vision on that front with what they were actually trying to do.
>>12878693I don't think that's true. It was still doing numbers by the time you could get a DVD player for $30 at Wal-Mart. That was a big selling point for early adopters which helped it have a large install base. But it's not the whole story. Sony being the incumbent was important too.
I agree with OP. PS2 is 5th gen, DC is 6th gen.
