what kind of retro games have generally aged the best? which ones have aged like milk?
Tetris is exactly as perfect as it was on release. Sure they've done variants like the battle royale Tetris 99, but it's all working on that fundamentally good core.
>>12875407When people say a game "aged" what they really mean is "it's not like modern standards", they just don't have the brains to realize that's what they mean. So the games that didn't "age" are the ones that are the closest to modern gaming, in other words the ones that modern gaming are still copying.Now considering that modern standards are mostly shit, a game "aging" is actually a compliment. This is flawless logic.
>>12875413tell us something we don't know professor
>>12875407Video games don't age, tardlard. Keep your fucking slop out of here.
Games that truly age poorly are ones where the limit is simple processing power. Something like early board game emulations where the opposing player/AI was just too limited to dumb to play the game at a competitive level. A lot of the early digital gaming experiments or research projects from the 50's or 60's fall into this category. Something like the Magnavox Odyssey and its games have aged poorly for similar reasons; the system's capacities were very limited compared to the things it was trying to emulate. By the time of the Atari system, a lot of the most basic crippling limits had already been overcome, and game enjoyment became more a matter of taste than anything else.
>>12875407There are some games with really low frame rate, like Midwinter and Rome AD92, that I think aren't as easy to get into today. I enjoyed Rome AD92 tho and still play Midwinter now and then. You get used to the stutter after a while. But I think there's a higher barrier to entry now compared to back in the day.
>>12875407Everything before Gen 3 is amusing for like ten minutes tops
>>12875407videogames are gamesthe ones that aged the best are the ones that already had solid gameplay that wasn't being held back by technology back when they were releasedthe ones that aged the worse were the ones that had little to no gameplay and relied on being cinematic multimedia spectacles. as technology progressed, they became less and less spectacular
>>12875468I find adventure games to have aged well, but I guess that depends on your tolerance for bullshit puzzles, mazes, item limits, and old parsers. simple input/output gameplay that doesn't have weird control schemes, responsiveness, or graphical/ui design from the stone age
PCE games like YS 1,2,4. Bonk, and Dracula X even look like they could be released on PC today. They are fantastic. N64 looks and sounds like shit. As does Atari Jaguar.
>>12875413No, they mean that the average N64 game runs at 15fps (10fps if you plug in the expansion pak) and is basically unplayable to anyone who's spent the past 25 years enjoying 3D gaming at reasonable framerates.
>>12875641>No it has nothing to do with modern standards, instead it's about this other thing that's a modern standard!Okay
>>12875407I think you tend to find that games which are biased towards technical simulation over abstraction tend to do worse. the simulation is offering you an experience that may be valuable at the time but is likely to be made obsolete.
What a broadly generalized stupid question.
>>12875407>aged the best?Simpler the better>which ones have aged like milk?RPGs. Just awful designs found in the older ones.
>>12875692Yes, gameplay mechanics and technical performance are different things, Rajesh. Well done.
>>12875978BG2 is still the best crpg of all time
>>12875407>what kind of retro games have generally aged the best? The ones with password systems because you don't suffer of "not really beating the game" syndrome with those. >which ones have aged like milk?Arcade ports that didn't have extra personality
>>12875407>aged the bestSNES games>aged like milkAtari games
>>12875407>agedthread dead on arrivalstillbirth thread
>>12876050I yhibk he meant some early ones. Like AD&D on intellivision, texh just wasnt reasy yet and it was an overly ambitious failure.
>>12875413That's part of it, but I would also argue a bigger part is not that the standards for games have changed, that OUR personal standards have changed. People who don't understand this seem to often forget that children have a much higher tolerance for bullshit than adults do. Kids have endless time and less rigid expectations, so they easily forgive clunky controls, endless grinding, or bad writing. Adults have less free time, lower tolerance for artificial padding, and notice poor design flaws right away.You can say "well that means it was never good" but I disagree, because one it kinda leads you down the road of OLD BAD NEW GOOD, but more importantly gaming was in its infancy and we just had less of an idea of what you were or weren't "supposed to do" in game design.
I don't want to be yet another OoT dicksucker but I think the game has aged fantastically and imo has aged much better than MM for reasons that have nothing to do with the time limit.
>>1287642470% of the time people aren't noticing design flaws as much as they're throwing a tantrum over a game not gelling with their standard of low friction activity.
A lot of arcade beatemups are not as good as you remember. I'd argue basically every Konami one that wasn't Turtles in Time relied way too much on bosses being massive damage sponges
>>12876452Nta but there's a difference between "I want less challenge" and "wow this is actual bullshit" Rayman-tier shit.
>>12876452You're proving my point and effective just saying>skill issueNo kid would ever say "skill issue", no kid would have a problem with these things, because kids have shit standards and oftentimes can't tell good games from bad ones unless they're absolutely egregious in their problems like Silver Surfer and his way too big of a hurtbox for the levels. They would just mindlessly play the game and not care about its quality. Shit, I remember enjoying those Simpsons NES games as a kid and those have absolutely atrocious controls in how fucking stiff your movement is, not by design but by dev incompetence. When I listed artificial padding there as a flaw, I didn't necessarily mean grinding which is why I listed grinding separately. I meant shit like fetch quests or giving bosses unnecessarily large HP pools to make a fight last longer.Not retro, but I am someone who will defend the first FF7 remake game, but that game is FILLED with artificial padding where enemies both take forever to die and you're extremely limited in the damage you can do because the game is so anti-grinding that it means every boss can have cinematic phases. Apparently people can easily recognize it with newer games but have a hard time pointing it out with old ones.
>>12876482>effective just sayingeffectively*, I meant
>>12876482fwiw I don't really mean skill issue, and I'm sure to the extent you dig into actually subpar wild west games like bart's nightmare you're on the level distinguishing design flaws.
>>12875978I love JRPGs, and I still like the older ones better than the newer ones, but this anon speaks the truth.They're charming, but definitely are built with the idea of padding out gameplay experiences better enjoyed over 20 hours to 40 to 50 hours because back then you "got more game" for less dollars and that is a curse on the genre. I feel that one of the reasons why Chrono Trigger's praises are still sung to this day is because it can be beaten fairly easily under 20 hours.
>>12875407games don't age though
>>12875909which one
>>12876424> so they easily forgive clunky controls, endless grinding, or bad writingYour entire opinion is "actually it's because we're smarter as adults now" when you fail to realize that your entire opinion is precisely what I'm talking about, applying modern standards to old games. For instance you talk of "grinding" as if that was always something bad and just "something kids put with", but that's incorrect, this is a prime example of applying modern standards to old games. Back in the 80's and early 90's players didn't use the word "grinding" but "training" and it was seen as a positive, because you couldn't make an RPG with engaging combat and a semblance of balance without it. Games with the most "grinding" were CRPGs, designed for adults.The entire "kids were dumb and couldn't tell the difference!" approach is also completely flawed and always sound like to me either like people projecting because THEY were a dumb kid, or just a made up excuse to pretend that your current opinion is somehow more objectively correct. Kids are smart, learn and adapt quickly and question things more, because they live in an environment (school every day) which is constantly mentally stimulating, the average adult doesn't, has a mind numbing job and is only mentally stimulated if he personally does the effort in his spare time, probably already forgot most things had learnt at school, and locks his mind into thinking he doesn't need to learn anything.But the main reason why I know why this reasoning is projecting is because it asssumes "only kids played video games back then" which is false. Adults were one of the main reason why the PSX and games like Tomb Raider or Resident Evil were best sellers (your "clunky controls" and "bad writing")>>12876462>Rayman-tier shit.Embarassing and get good
>>12875407DOSBoxable games > 2000s PC games made for Win98/XP.almost all the 2000s games have serious problem dealing with duo/multicore CPUs. unless fanpatched.but even when patched they have other damn annoying or gamebreaking bugs.
>>12875407Playing through Phantasy star IV feels like playing something on the cusp of modern 2d JRPs standards, it's missing alot like simple things like you find in early pokemon games like menu scrolling, having items stack or even a map of some kind, but it is manageable. Still looks and plays pretty good, which I can't say for Phantasy star III before it where the menus look like shit, the characters walk speed is too damn slow, and the battle screens icons don't explain shit and overall doesnt feel good to play.
>>12877108>Your entire opinion is "actually it's because we're smarter as adults now"that's now what he said at all. he (correctly) said that the standards for gaming have changed over time.did you even actually read his post before writing all that?
Ones with good gameplay! like lemmings! lets go!
rpgs, racing games and platformers aged the best. fps games kept advancing with better engines and technology, so a lot of earlier ones stand out as looking primitive. while charming and they might still be fun (aliens vs predator series and doom mods for example) but you can see they are aged by the new advancements made in their genre. sure, you could say the same for racers and the like, but the formula and gameplay for them were figured out in the 80s and 90s, while fps games advanced a lot in the 2000s compared to their early days. quake and unreal really broke the mold for what fps games could do, but half life 2 and games like fear brought a lot more to the formula. today we have fps games that are MMO, single player experiences, time manipulating, war simulations, arcade like, hybrids, hero shoots, and more. a lot of fps games today are nothing like each other, and thats due to the growth in design. the technology wasnt there back in the days to make every fps game like they wanted to. I still love the old games, as I prefer the old shadow warrior to the new shadow warrior games, but the old fps games do show their age the most due to how far the new fps genre has come.
>>1287715810 lemmings10 diggers spentone lemming ain't diggingbug on first level?
>>12877242>a lot of fps games today are nothing like each other, and thats due to the growth in design Unfortunately, I didn't see it that way. To me, a bit too many FPS games tend to follow the Serious Sam-style arena gunner layout.
my fav FPS is Delta Force I and II
The graphics in some of the oldest games have aged the best because the technical limitations meant chasing realism was a complete non-starter so they were forced to go for minimalism and abstraction.
>>12877108>Games with the most "grinding" were CRPGs, designed for adults.You have absolutely no idea no idea what you're talking about. PC RPGs had moved away from fighting 8000 rats by the mid 90s. XP became a quest reward, battles weren't random, and the enemies that were in the games didn't respawn and it was because the grindy boring gameplay was despised and due to the influence of Doom and Diablo everyone wanted action based combat. If something like Baldurs Gate behaved the same way your average blobber did in 1987 it would have been eviscerated. Quit larping about shit you know nothing about
>>12875413You just don't have the brains to realize that, for the sake of discussion, "modern standards" doesn't have to mean the entirely fashion-driven meta until it's made explicit. You can easily have a discussion based on what the modern standards SHOULD be rather than the lowest common denominator. You're just not capable of thinking that deeply.Legend of Zelda (NES), for example, is a game that aged well but is highly unfashionable now. No story, minimal dialog, no hand-holding, no tutorial, simple bosses not crazy epic event bosses. It's timeless though, because the game's design is exceptionally orthogonal and refined with purpose. Distinct and carefully planned movement patterns compensate for limited AI. Limited color palettes are used to designate different enemies and objects, which also mitigates sprite economy. The enemy-spawning algorithm is highly constrained, but hard to notice because the groupings are so well crafted and divided between the different areas; lending character and distinctiveness to each dungeon rather than being seen as a limitation. Occasionally you might notice, if you kill all but one enemy in a room, when if you leave and come back, a different enemy will be there instead. This is something that you'd never see in a modern game, it has "aged poorly," but because the rest of the game is so consistently engaging it doesn't really matter. Could go on.
>>12875407>BestJapanese>MilkWesternFeel free to cherrypick exceptions, but the average Japanese game always focused on gameplay more than the average Western game.
>>12876424>I would also argue a bigger part is not that the standards for games have changed, that OUR personal standards have changed.Nah, it's not the bigger part. It's relevant, but not the main issue.> children have a much higher tolerance for bullshit than adults do.Kids now also have access to infinity more games than virtually anyone in the 80s and 90s. When I was in 1st grade I didn't even know a single person who owned a Nintendo. I got to visit the arcades periodically, and maybe once in a blue moon I'd even get a few quarters to play. At home I had Atari 2600 and a Tandy CoCo with a handful of games nobody cares about anymore (including myself) like Astroblast and GORF.
>Aged well:Puzzle GamesAdventure GamesStrategy GamesPlatformersShooters>Aged Badly:Sports GamesRacing GamesFighting GamesRPGs
>>12877902>Adventure GamesLots have aged badly because they are tedious pixel-hunting nightmares that only made sense to enjoy in an era when you had nothing else.>Fighting GamesThey have aged fine. Good example of a genre that has evolved with various fashions and gimmicks over the years, catering to the tastes of an increasingly niche fandom, without ever really obsoleting the first two generations.>Racing GamesVery mixed bag. Some have aged very well some haven't, again boiling down to the requirement that you assess the game for what it is and making a reasonable attempt to hold it to appropriately timeless standards, rather than just dismissing it as not appealing to current fashions. F-Zero is a good example here, lazily ridiculed as a "tech demo" for not having features like multiplayer or 3D terrain, is nevertheless an smooth, fast-paced and challenging single-player racing game with great controls and vivid, memorable graphics and theming.
>>12875468that's because they're made to be played for ten minute tops you stupid mongrel
>>12875413based
>>12877854>Feel free to cherrypick exceptions, but the average Japanese game always focused on gameplay more than the average Western game.Zoomer retard take. The movie-game fad didn't kick in till the 2000's, sweet-heart, maybe /v/ is more your speed?
