There is no excuse for this!
Name 5 console games made before 1999 that required both sticks
>>12884690The usual cope is something along the lines of "b-but Sega could’ve released a dual analog controller later". Unless Sega was planning on giving those out for free to all existing Dreamcast owners, they can go fuck themselves. That controller fucking sucks.
>>12884694I don't even think there were 5 games that required both PSX analog sticks in total.Can name dozens of Saturn/N64 games that required six face buttons on top of the two shoulder buttons though.
>>12884694The Dreamcast should have been made for 2000s gaming, not 90s, pal.
>>12884690The Excuse Is That Piracy Killed The Dreamcast
>>12884709You’re guilty by association since you were hanging out with trashy pieces of shit who were copying games. Did you do anything to stop them? Nope, didn’t think so.
The crime isn't having one single analog, the crime was reducing the number of buttons from the Saturn just because Naka wanted to simplify bideo gams
Really no excuse for that controller to be so bad. Saturn 3D controller was better and the lack of second stick was constantly a problem on N64.
>>12884716And replacing their well liked d-pad with complete garbage for no apparent reason.
>>12884694It's a bullshit question. No games "required" both sticks because developers were forced to account for the fact that many PS1 owners didn't have an analogue controller at all. Many games were far better with twin sticks though, like Gran Turismo where you could use the right stick as an analogue throttle. It's also irrelevant, as Sega pushed the Dreamcast as a next-gen system and should have been preparing for the future of gaming, not the present. The Dual Analog controller for the PS1 came out in early 1997 in Japan, 18 months before the Dreamcast launched. They had plenty of time to make the controller less shit and chose not to.
>>12884743Yeah I got a DualShock basically just for Metal Gear Solid.
>>12884690Quake 3 is a bitch with the native DC controller. They should have had a pack in with a mouse and keyboard
>>12884690>cable at the bottom
>>12884743>should have been preparing for the future of gaming, not the presentThat's why it had online play.
>>12884690it is kinda wild that none of the dc proto controllers considered 2 joysticks.they were dead set on the vmu.we also almost got a dc wiimote.
at first it had 6 face buttons like saturn/genesis.they cut 2 buttons because arcade players were expected to buy another controller and double dip.it just sucks that you can tell they went with a normie audience over actual function. (like nintendo)
>>12884759The extra directional range is nice but it doesn’t use the right stick at all.
>>12884808True, but you do get rumble during the cutscenes and torture sequence.
>>12884793Bottom left looks like a 2nd gen PS1
>>12884690What am I looking at here?
>>12884716>>12884718When I saw the prototype I couldn't believe sega downgraded the controller like that. I just thought the designers were retarded but they made it worse on purpose
>>12884950This would have been much better. Is it true that developers begged Sega to ditch the six face buttons? Seen a few anons mention this.
>>12884950It's really funny that most 3rd party controllers had this because niggers at sega didn't give them an updated design cue.It's even funnier that sega cheaped out on a resistor on the controller port so it often popped when 4 people had controllers plugged into it. What a fucking shit company
>>12884950>no triggersWhat was segas fucking problem having 6 buttons and 2 triggers. The Saturn had more buttons than the dreamcast.
>>12884690The excuse is that arcade games don't need more buttons.The whole Dreamcast strategy was: "arcade at home".At the time, arcade games were indeed more graphically appealing than console games, but players bought console games for an adventurous gaming experience, not for the quick dopamine rush that arcade games offered.Sega tried very hard to catch up with the PS1 library, with many ps1 ports and clones, but it was practically impossible.The slim version of the original PS ended up selling more than the GameCube and the Xbox. The market share was there, but Sega was always very stupid.
>>12884694Even if you completely ignore the single stick aspect, it's STILL bad. Look at the fucking shape of it.
The Dreamcast might be the most overrated console. Yes it has some hidden gems but many were eventually ported to other systems, iy was too dependant on arcade ports and the controller was hot garbage. The VMU was a neat idea but underutilized. Unlike the Japanese Saturn the fan base around then Dreamcast feels unjustified.
>>12885157The Dreamcast was a dud in Japan, so the marketing campaign was very American focused. There was no possible way it was going to make a dent in Europe.
>>12884698The original ps1 and xbox controllers got replaced and it didn't hurt them, consumers are willing to buy new pads every once in a while, personally I've never owned a system that I haven't had to replace the pads for during its lifetime, none of them have ever lasted more than a few years under moderate use, certainly not the ps5/xbox controllers you can get now.Ironically the dreamcast controller is actually extremely durable, thinking on it, I still have most of mine from like, 2004 and they still work great.
>>12885393I don’t care about durability when the rest of it sucks so bad. Cheap feeling plastic everywhere, shitty looking etched face buttons, no rubber coating on the analog stick, cord on the bottom, and one of the worst D-pads of all time. It’s a horrible design.
>>12885430Oh and the VMU amounted to little more than a Nintendo style gimmick. I would’ve much rather had standard memory cards and built-in rumble.
>>12884743You couldn't prepare for the future back then because nobody new what the future even was going to be. Gaming has plateaued for the past few generations but back in 99/2000 nobody knew what the fuck what could happen.
>>12885441I agree with this, it's also assuming that just because the ps1 had dual analogue that it had well established design standards in games for it, this isn't true, other than ape escape it was mostly a bit of a gimmick, even games that did use it like Alien Trilogy were widely mocked, free camera rotation wasn't really a thing either. Of course in retrospect dual analogue is codified but that definitely wasn't the case in 1998
>thumbstick in the wrong place>extra thumbstick for no reason>non-analog triggers>no expansion slot for add-onsAgreed, there's no excuse for Sony's shit.
>>12885454The face buttons have analogue though, so there is a sort of logic to keeping the triggers digital. Expansion slots on controllers are dumb, the use case for the 64 is just adding back in features the ps1 already has, the saturn 3d pad expansion slot was never used, the dreamcast VMU I have a huge fondness for but it is strictly speaking bad.
>>12885430Xbox jewel-style buttons are overall the best design imo. The OG Xbox controller was a nice evolutionary step up from the Dreamcast, but they quickly realized the black and white buttons were somewhat awkward. Then they pretty much nailed it with the 360.
>>12885459>The face buttons have analogue thoughThat started with the PS2 controller and was always a pain in the ass in the games that used it, unlike analog triggers which have actual travel to them and make sense. PS2's triggers were pressure-sensitive as well but they still had no travel so they sucked for that as well.>Expansion slots on controllers are dumb, the use case for the 64 is just adding back in features the ps1 already hasThe PS1 had GameBoy cartridge compatiblity and microphone support?>the dreamcast VMU I have a huge fondness for but it is strictly speaking badSomething being underutilized doesn't make it bad.
>>12885468>Game Boy cartridge compatibility>N64?
>>12885157>The Dreamcast might be the most overrated console>it was too dependent on arcade portsyou have to keep in mind that consoles had SHIT arcade ports until dreamcast, and having them at home perfected along with new content was insane at the time.the jump from n64/ps1/sat was huge and being able to browse the internet and look at large breasted asian porn on a console was mind blowing.dreamcast died early but it really makes you wonder what gc/ps2/xbox games it 100% couldn't handle.
>>12885471you dont know about that pokemon stadium shit?
>>12885591Referring to that as "Game Boy cartridge compatibility" is a huge stretch lol
>>12884690>There is no excuse for this!Yes. Such a blatant shitpost by an underage should have never been made
>>12885603I mean, I had pokemon stadium 2 and being able to play the games on the bigscreen and also use my own pokemon for 3d battles felt incredible as a kid. If the controller hadn't had the expansion slot they probbaly could have just created an adapter that plugged into slot 4 or something though, same for the microphone, these wouldn't have been insurmountable hurdles.
>>12885573>what gc/ps2/xbox games it 100% couldn't handle.You would never get something like San Andreas on the Dreamcast without stripping it down heavily
>>12885653Yeah, fair. Nintendo was creative with that stuff.
>>12884694This post is indicative of why Sega lost.You don't make a new console to conform to the past or present times. You make a new console to influence where games are headed. At least to last the next 5 to 7 years (a full generation). That's why it's called next generation. You ship a console with dual analogs out of the box so that developers can start to take advantage of it given that 100% of the userbase will have access to it instantly.tldr Sega fans are retarded
>>12885660>San Andreasdidn't it stream the game from the disk or something?they got gta 3 working, in theory anything is possible.
>>12885708The PS2 era GTA games made use of the much higher capacity DVDs compared to the Dreamcast GD-ROMs.
how could they let this happen
>>12884694There is one game on DC that would have benefited from dual sticks. Virtual On Oratorio Tangram.But let's be honest. Up till the death of DC only one company was genuinely making controllers with evolving good ergonomics. That was Sega. Then Sega failed and passed the baton to Microsoft. XBox controller is basically a DC controller with more stuff. Every controller today resembles an XBox controller except for PlayStation.
>>12884950I wonder how long the six face buttons lasted cause I have a shitty Mad Katz controller like that.
>>12885761>SNES pad but with more buttons for greater functionality, segmented d-pad for greater control less likely to hit errant inputs, and handles for more comfort and stabilityGreat controller, and thanks to the DC pad design fumbling, it plays most of the games on Sega's system as well or, in cases of shared PSX releases like Soul Reaver, Tomb Raider TLR, Alone in the Dark: TNN, etc., even better.
>>12884950>cable in the frontRetards had it right but decided to put it on the bottom in the end. What a bunch of dumb faggots.
>>12885664This post is indicative of zoomies are so retarded. There was no reason to assume there was going to be that big of a paradigm shift within the next generation. Game design philosophy wasn't so hugely different that they needed to plan for a different controller.
>>12884770Quake 3 future proofed itself by supporting a madcatz flightstick that used the "extra" inputs sega never used in the normal controller. So that means it natively supports a dual analog 8 button controller that doesn't exist just because the dreamcast hardware can recognize one.https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=szMDLhUqCWc
They should have done it this way.
>>12886082>no analog indicator light>asymmetrical stick layoutLooks worseNo benefitNo thank you
>>12884950They used the circular pad simply because Nintendo had a patent on cross shaped d-pads, but they managed to get around it using different construction underneath which allowed them to use a nintendo style cross shaped d-pad. No, that's literally it. Sega always wanted to be like Nintendo, it's why the Saturn was a souped up SNES at first too.The 4-button layout is even simpler, Sega asked their internal developers if they wanted that or 6 buttons, and the devs all said they want 4 buttons. There's an interview somewhere where the designers state this, and they even say you can buy an arcade pad if you want 6 buttons.
>>12886101Why do you have such a strong need for it to be symmetrical? There’s no benefit to having both joysticks be symmetrical, what you’re asking for is purely a matter of aesthetics, not ergonomics.
>>12886146>the devs all said they want 4 buttonsthat was some upper sega head guy who was retarded and thought players would buy an arcade controller.ask a dev:>genesis had 8 buttons>saturn had 9 buttons>n64 had 10 buttons>ps1 had 12 buttons>do you want 7 buttons max on dreamcast?
It absolutely should have had a second stick, but in all fairness, it felt like took forever for devs to even figure out what the fuck the second stick could be used for during the sixth gen.Halo was not the first to utilize the idea of left stick = move, right stick = aim, shoulder buttons = attack, but it was the one that really broadcasted the system. But even after that, you still had plenty of console FPSs that released that had the left analog stick aim and move, while using a face button to fire and strafing on the shoulder buttons.Do you remember what the right analog stick did in GTA III/VC? It let you look around in first person. The only time you'll use it when you've got to line up a jump, like getting into boats or reaching hidden packages.
>>12886082>why yes i am a microserf how could you tell
>>12884793That 2nd was basically on the money for what would become the default controller these days. The Xbox 360 pad is basically every controller now.
>>12884743>>12885664oh yeah, the Dreamcast totally should have predicted the future 3 years ahead... That's the problem with your reasoning, you're looking at these things from a modern point of view.For instance every retard these days pit the Dreamcast against 6th gen consoles when it was already dead by the time the GC and Xbox came out. Nobody points out either how the gamecube's C stick is shit as a "second analog stick" even though it was precisely NOT designed to be a full fledged one.The truth is that the Dreamcast controller was made in conjonction with developers at the time, asking them what they wanted. But then everybody pretends like "they didn't do in 1998 what everyone was doing in 2002, haha how pitiful", because it's 6th gen right so it's the same thing, wikipedia says so
>>12886250Yes and no. Sega also clearly wanted to sell their first party accessories like this for fighting game fans since the stock controller was terrible for them.
>>12886250Except it's not just the second analog stick, its everything. The Dreamcast controller is somehow worse than the N64, PSX and even the Saturn controllers. It barely competes as a 5th gen console, much less a 6th Gen one. Its not that Sega failed to predict the future, its tgat Sega failed to recognize existing trends in gaming at the time.
>>12884690And it didn't have bumpers either, just triggers. Sega didn't think that games would ever evolve beyond bing bing wahoo.
>>12884716>the crime was reducing the number of buttons from the Saturn just because Naka wanted to simplify bideo gamsWhat the fuck?!
>>12884774Fuck!
>>12885664>tldr Sega fans are retardedYeah, i'm starting to believe this too.
>>12886148Why do you have such a strong need for an ugly change with no upside? My original point was succinct but I'm happy to elaborate.>Looks worseAsymmetrical sticks on a Playstation controller do look worse. It's an aesthetic abomination. At a glance the unbalanced visual design is off-putting, but looking closer you'll focus on the wasted void around the left stick crater where a D-pad once proudly spread itself, and shake your head at the ugliness of it.>No benefitAsymmetrical sticks don't provide a benefit. I have normal adult male hands, with normal dextrous thumbs, that are comfortable with both Western and Japanese-designed pads, and can comfortably play for hours with D-pad or sticks in symmetrical or asymmetrical layouts. Neither has advantage over the other so it'd be a worthless change.The nearly 30-year unbroken run of that symmetrical layout used extensively by both Western males and Japanese manlets is a testament to its universal practicality, and the asymmetrical layouts of the Gamecube, Xbox, etc., perfectly viable as they are, are an unnecessary design gimmick.
>>12886082Playing d-pad focused games would suck.
>>12886651jarvis add an octagonal gate
>>12886296>shit in shit out: the post
>>12884690
>>12886250>oh yeah, the Dreamcast totally should have predicted the future 3 years aheadYes that's how every company designs their NEXT GENERATION consoles. You design your console for the FUTURE that needs to stay relevant for the next 5-7 years. Why do you think competent 6th gen consoles were already figuring out evolving disc capacities, higher res video output, hard drive storage, network capabilities, more advanced controls back in 1999? But oh Sega, they put their eggs into the VMU.
>>12885121>The whole Dreamcast strategy was: "arcade at home"
>>12885761very last gen controller desu
>>12886250There were signs:PS1 games requiring multiple discsDevs are already taking advantage of the extra buttons to offer better controls for better gaming experience. (pic related is not the default control scheme for some reason lol)Fast evolving technology, so you need to design hardware that won't become obsolete in 2 or 3 years.Sega failed to notice the obvious.
>>12885437The Dreamcast controller has no rumble?!
>>12885618I have more life experience then you will ever have, boomer!!!
Behold, the perfect controller!
>>12887715>4 face buttons instead of 6dropped
>>12887715The most retarded, i.m.o.It lost to microsoft.
>>12887715The dpad kind of sucks, but I love it for 3d games.
>>12886250How dare you say that. I'll have you know I'm an expert on the subject. I've watched several (1) youtubes on this. Well actually just a reaction video but that makes my opinion even more authentic. I wish boomers with their "real life experience", "facts" and other patriarch dogma would stop ruining this board for us'/us'
>>12887696 >The Dreamcast controller has no rumble?! This anon >>12885437 is correct: the DC pad had no rumble. However, he fails to mention that a) that was an issue with several other consoles (N64 didn't have built-in rumble either); b) it was due to some random company doing patent camping on built-in rumble in the US. Console makers offered a separate rumble pack (which carried the royalties) for their controllers, sort of like how OG Xbox-era Microsoft put all the DVD playback royalties in the Xbox remote pack. This was only resolved when Sony brute-forced the issue by releasing Dualshocks with built-in rumble in the US, and litigated that company into submision via lawfare: "We will lose every single time, but we have more money for our lawyers than you; remember what happened to Aureal". That company eventually relented around 2008 or 2009 (though Sony were blocked by some US court from releasing the Dualshock 3 around the time of PS3 launch, hence that lame SixAxis).
Three threads about "PlayStation is better than Dreamcast" up in the catalog right now.
>>12887715Engraved buttons will always look shitty and cheap to me.
>>12886250I'm not buying your cope, sega fanboy, you lost.
>>12886296>Its not that Sega failed to predict the future, its that Sega failed to recognize existing trends in gaming at the time.
