...was Vice City

Shenmue is the better life simulator with actual artistic value, but cattle being cattle GTA ended up being the popular cultural zeitgeist for 3 decades thanks to being able to kill NPCs with shitty controls

>>12901157
Which was GTA IV and is awful. IV is NOT RETRO.

>>12901157
Too much fucking bloat in this. Most side content not only isn't fun but gives basically worthless rewards. Take the courier missions in each city, they reward you with the asset giving you $2,000 max which fills over time. $2,000 is absolutely nothing. Most the assets in the game is like this. The home burglary missions add nothing to the game. You're so rich after finishing the story none of that matters. The collectables giving you weapons at the safe houses are kind of useful but again you're rich enough to just buy weapons. The collectables also have a timing trouble where they would have been more useful during the story but most players collect them all afterwards. Taxi/Firefighter/Pimp/Ambulance missions are all pretty much the same go from A to B shit with Firefighter being the only one that gives a decent reward. Ambulance gives you full health but you'd get that by just playing the game anyway. 37 SAFEHOUSES is way too much, but I assume this is because they couldn't implement a better way to save anywhere at the time. The girlfriends always annoyed me too. There is too many again. Should have just gave CJ 1 girlfriend and expanded her dialogue and actions. There's so much crap in this game I've been playing it since it came out and I only realized Duality was an arcade game like 3 years ago. Never seen that shit before then somehow.

>>12902249
Yeah, I like San Andreas, but there's just way too much shit to do. I've never considered 100%-ing it despite having done so for 3 and VC multiple times.

>>12902249
All that shit is optional, retard.

>>12902314
He's not bitching about it being mandatory, he's bitching about the rewards for them being almost completely useless.

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>being a contrarian makes me special. Right, mom?

>>12901170
GTA isn't life sim

>>12901170
Shenmue didn't let me run over niggers with a car and decapitate hookers with a katana.

>>12901170
Shenmue's problem is that it's just not very fun to play, while GTA is fun.

>>12901157
I liked it

>>12902369
>>12902372
Kek this. Turns out early 00s teenagers preferred playing as a badass criminal over life-simming as an autistic Japanese man working as a forklift operator.

>>12902314
SA is also bloated in that it's overly tutorialized, the map is massive (and the latter half is markedly worse), and there is just too many boring, samey, easy missions. And those are not optional.

The biggest problem with GTA SA is that most missions are just you running and gunning around NPCs but the gunning isn't that great
Nothing beats driving around though

>>12905840
The strangest thing about the GTA franchise to me is just how persistent the bongjank continues to be despite the huge budgets. Like how have they still not figured out satisfying shooting mechanics?

>>12901157
>The beginning of the end for GTA.
I thought that was GTA V? Or more specifically, GTA Online.

>>12905845
GTA is a stagnant IP. The games are just getting bigger, but not better. SA was the swansong to a now creatively dead franchise. Normies still love that because they have no taste and are fine with being fed the same thing again and again. (See cock in booty, Fifa, the 15th Skyrim and Witcher 3 port, etc) Typical consoomer cattle.
25 years after going 3D, rockstar never bothered developing the bones of their games. Mission structure, gameplay loop, coherence between the open world and the story. GTA online is the culmination of the sloppification of GTA. It's stripped down to the bones, only thing left is the turbomonetarised gameplay without the story.

OP is absolutely right in saying that SA was the beginning of the end. It's the last game Rockstar tried to iterate on their formula somewhat, with gang wars, character customisation and the overambitious comparatively big open world.

GTA SA was all razzle dazzle. Had a bunch of novel shit which was mind blowing at the time, just in terms of novelty, but doesn't hold up without that context. 90% of the shit in that game is half-baked, useless bloat. The smaller scope was a disappointment at the time, but in hindsight I totally understand why GTA IV was so scaled down. I can go back to IV and have fun driving around and shooting people because the physics are that good, but going back to SA you really realize how mediocre the game is.
These days, I also think that III is the best HD era game, just because it has the tightest design.

R* kind of went the wrong direction with the series I think. They should have never chosen scale over substance, and instead focused on detail instead. Imagine San Andreas but contained to just Los Santos (and maybe some country side) but with actually good gameplay instead.
And what's funny is that individually R* is quite capable of making mechanically solid games. The Warriors has a great combat system, Midnight Club has great driving, etc. Imagine if they actually put all of that into a GTA game, instead of the half-assed gameplay we got.

>>12905942
IV had that "razzle-dazzle," too. Bowling, TV, darts, internet.
But SA was the perfect drunk driving simulator for teenage me. It wasn't so much about the missions but about how freely I could play.
Now that big, open-world games are common, it seems silly. But this was all relatively new then.
Fallout 3 came out 4 years later and is still considered janky early open-world stuff.

>>12902318
it's essentially infinite free money. the issue is you have to go around manually collecting all of it rather than it just depositing in your pocket or at least in one central location.
I would've had it such that it all pools into one place in each city, like CJ's main base (Doherty Garage, Four Dragons, Johnson House). you only have to go to three places once a week.

>>12905845
there aren't any good shooters on the PS2, and both 4 and 5 were solid third person shooters for the 7th gen systems. 5 was only weak on 8th gen because it was seriously outdated by that point.

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>>12901167
slash thread, though being rushed as fuck made it less tedious to replay from time to time

>>12905942
>it's actually better to get less game
Typical IVfag. You're a big reason why the series and Rockstar games in general is dog shit now.

>>12906701
By the end of the game, you already essentially have infinite money. If not, you can just gamble at the Four Dragons and savescum if you lose all your shit on roulette.
I guess the idea was that the player would do these side missions in between story missions in a given location, but there's just no incentive to do so. Maybe the story missions give out too much money? I don't know, but almost none of the side content was very well thought out.

>>12905925
>SA was the swansong to a now creatively dead franchise
I'd say GTA4 fits that a little better. It was a great upgrade from the previous in just about every way and had good story lines throughout. Downhill since and I expect GTA6 to be truly horrible given it has female designers and writers driving it.

>>12906718
Retard.

It's funny actually playing SA and seeing how delusional and nostalgia-blinded you retards are.

If anything, SA is the casualization of classic GTA. Missions are much easier, much more railroaded, much more cinematic, the game constantly tutorializes and holds your hand, the RPG stat mechanics are basically pure fluff, the map is oversized and full of wasted space, and the game is full of bugs and jank.

I can see if you like III and VC just due to their arcadey nature, but IV and V are basically a straight across the board improvement from SA

IV just mogs the shit out of SA. GTA IV has
>better story
>better writing
>better characters
>better controls
>better gunplay
>better physics
>better graphics/animations
>much better draw distance/pop-in
>better attention to detail
>better driving and car handling
>better car damage and deformation
>much more intuitive driving controls (R2/L2 instead of X and O)
>better police/wanted system
>better radio
>better side activities
>much better dating system
>better atmosphere
>better world design and immersion
>can fast travel with taxis instead of having to constantly drive from one end of the map to the other
>can instantly restart missions via the phone
>interiors can actually be entered in real-time instead of being segmented zones with loading screens
>no RPG stat grinding bloat crap

>>12906738
IV is not retro, but I honestly don't understand why it gets shat on so much. It's a really good game and really one of Rockstar North's best works. They put so much work into the details almost nobody noticed that they did away with that for GTA V. They poured their hearts and souls into it and almost nobody gave a shit.

>>12902318
so unlock the stuff early when it's useful then. tuff like this in games enables you to do custom game runs and alternative playthrus

>>12906753
I suppose there's creedance to that. Most players are still going to skip all of that shit, though.

>>12906729
>it doesn't matter because you can just savescum
early in the game it matters if you haven't looked up where gun spawns are and you like customising cars.

>>12906772
>gun spawns
you have access to emmet in the early game who gives you weapons good enough for getting thru the first los santos chapter
>customizing cars
a completely useless mechanic outside of installing hydraulics for the first cesar mission

i get it, SA had a lot of neat mechanics tacked on, but almost none of them serve any purpose outside of a handful of missions.

>>12906791
>useless mechanic
so is Emmet, and the gang clothes mechanic, and probably like 85% of the shit in the game in regards to just beating the story. why do you even play games, if you don't enjoy engaging with their mechanics?

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ive always felt like less was more. 3 was the perfect size really. so much of the game was the wonder of the whole open world thing. after having my mind blown by 3 and spending so much time with it, i started to see it more as the individual gameplay systems, and i wasnt wowed by vice city and felt like a lot of things just felt and looked worse. i lost interest in sa around the second "island" or whatever and never finished it. im pretty much checked out of gta at this point although i will replay 3 again some time

>>12906804
I didn't say that I didn't enjoy the mechanics, I only said that the vast majority of them are completely useless for the story (optional). They're fun and I'm glad they're in the game, but they could've been implemented in a much more thoughtful way. They threw so many things in without expanding upon them that all of the extra content felt rushed as hell.

>>12906812
>less was more
This is why 3 is my favorite of the trilogy. It's snappy and loose. Missions are open-ended and the story doesn't ever take the front seat over whatever the player decides to do. I also like the fact that you can beat it over the course of a day or two if you're dedicated enough. It's the perfect example of an open-world game that wastes absolutely none of your time if you don't want it to.

>>12906812
3 is a very fun game. I'm hoping someone puts the time in to make a deluxe version now that good tools exist for doing that in a big way. The core of the game works great so just use that but you can add all sorts of functionality. And fix the shooting mechanic.

>>12906738
No.

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>>12906729
I actually did gamble away all of CJ's money by Las Venturas, just to see how my experience plays out differently by having to earn money for safehouses.
The thing about GTA, to me in particular, is that it's kind of a roleplay game. Sure you can speedrun the missions, but I've already done that millions of times. Driving around is enough to tickle my fun when I've turned off the radar and blips.

>>12906745
>honestly don't understand why it gets shat on so much

Because it's so boring and Nico is so unlikeable

>>12906815
and? imagine saying the side quests in an RPG are "useless for the story", or any non-meta car in a racing game is a waste of time to use. why are you only applying this standard to San Andreas?

>>12906738
>better driving and car handling
Most unfun dogshit handling in any driving game. Thank God real cars handle nothing like IV's. They feel like boats more than cars.

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>>12906729
>>12906873
For me, it was savescumming at the offtrack and betting on the highest odds horse (because they all had a 1 in 5 chance of winning as they were to lazy to accurately program their payout odds to correspond with their actual chance of winning).

>>12907018
Nigger, I already said that they're fun and I'm glad they're in the game. They're way less well thought out than most RPG sidequests.

>>12907103
t. bus rider

>>12906718
SAfags are all nostalgiatards and third worlders. You have to be a mongloid to think shit like a god awful basketball minigame, useless RPG stats, a half-baked stealth mechanic, or safehouses that have about 3 shared interiors that add absolutely no value to the game other then a save point are good content.
They should have actually spent their effort on making the driving and shooting fun because that's what you do 90% of the game instead of all this random garbage.

>>12906804
>Emmet
Emmet is actually perfectly emblematic of the design problem that permeates SA. You go there once during a mission where he's set up as a character that will provide you with weapons, but after that you never see or meet him again. Even though he gets his own icon on the map, all you can get out of it is a shitty pistol. About 10 minutes into the game, you'll figure out that if you need a pistol you can just run over a cop or a Ballas gang member and get a gun that way. You'll probably also find the tec-9 pick up on top of Sweet's house as well. Shortly after that you get access to Ammu Nation.
Emmet's entire existence is trivialized 5 minutes after you meet him.
He could have progressively provided you with better weapons during the Los Santos arc, he could have been a mission provider, hell they could have even made him into a ghetto version of the gunrange mini-game where you shoot bottles instead of targets. Instead, he's literally useless. Both mechanically and narratively. How many man hours were spent on scripting the mission, creating the model, recording voice lines for this mission, etc. What for? Absolutely nothing. Just a tremendous waste of time.
San Andreas is filled with shit like this and that's why it's a half baked game.

>>12906738
>>much more intuitive driving controls (R2/L2 instead of X and O)
How is that "more intuitive"

>>12902249
>The home burglary missions add nothing to the game

How i hated that, very few money for that all hassle

>>12907243
The triggers being accelerate/brake is far more functional than X/Square. How is that not intuitive? It gives you way more control over the vehicle.

>>12907247
it gives you infinite sprint
I always did all the available side missions as soon as they are unlocked, it
made the story missions much more entertaining
I seriously can't undo all the bitching ITT

>>12907252
just rebind them, holy shit what are you retards talking about

>>12905845
It's funny how Slavjank like Mafia had much better driving and shooting than one of the biggest 6th generation franchises

>>12907267
How do you rebind them while playing on a console? Fucking moron.

>>12907269
Mafia was abhorrent dogshit, what the fuck are you on about?

>>12907267
>t. underage turd world brown retard playing on his cellphone

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how did this medium peak itself so fast? I play some non /vr/ gangster games that aren't even that new and I already feel I played the top of that. I played some old jrpgs and I already feel content. I get to SH1 and it was just ideal and nothing feels better in action horror. Not /vr/ but I played midnight club LA and it was too smooth and nothing is better in that sub category. Video games feel like the shallowest medium, you get near perfection and you can't go higher.

>>12907454
play some new categories of games

>>12905942
Bully came after SA and proved a smaller but tighter map works with so few npcs that all of them are named iirc.

>>12907252
PS2 doesn't have triggers, clown. L2 and R2 are regular buttons like X and Square are. back then, using X and Square was the norm for console driving games because the control scheme descended from Mario Kart. even Gran Turismo used X and Square, with the option to switch throttle and brake to the right analogue stick rather than L2 and R2. it wasn't until the PS3 that the Dualshock had proper triggers.

>>12907464
Bully isn't good. nobody remembers anything outside of the school grounds

>>12907536
The Xbox version used the triggers, dumbass.

>>12907541
the game was designed for the PS2, dumbarse. the Xbox version is the inferior release, with fucked graphics and wonky controls because they didn't care enough to figure out how to work with the black and white buttons.

>>12907536
R2 and L2 are analog and free up your thumb for other inputs while driving (like camera)

>>12907536
I'm fairly sure most ps2 games where you drive it actually drives faster if you hold X tighter and this sounds fucking stupid because it just tires your thumb but it's true for what I can tell. Using a chinese cheap ps2 controller without sensitive buttons can work better in these situations.

The buttons are sensitive/pressure controlled in original ps2 dualshock2 and mostly used by mgs2 and mgs3 which had stuff like hold Square down 50% to aim and 100% to shoot etc.

>>12907537
That's unfortunate.

>>12907554
all the buttons on the PS2 are analogue, it was a big deal at the time. the exact same type of clicky rubbery analogue because they all use the same type of membrane and capacitor to process the input.

>>12907560
you can turn it off with the Analogue button and it makes all the face buttons digital.

>>12907563
>you can turn it off with the Analogue button and it makes all the face buttons digital.
The more you know, if true. Need to try it next time.

>>12907567
there's no reason to play the PS2 version these days anyway. PC with Silentpatch to restore everything the PC port broke/removed from PS2 is the definitive way to play the game. on PC you can have any input scheme you want.

>>12907581
I kept having some problems where it always froze in the cutscene where you visit Ammu-Nation for the first time and I couldn't figure out what gives. Could be a simple fix but could also just be something no one knows. I appreciate mods and fixes but I also appreciate in this instance I can just put the disc in ps2 and play.

And all we had to do was follow the damn train to prevent this.

>>12907591
Whatever it was Silentpatch probably fixes it. San Andreas doesn't play nice with modern processor speeds and RAM size, which causes all sorts of glitches and bugs. Silentpatch fixes that.

>>12907602
I had silentpatch but all the patches are likely constantly updated so it might work these days.

>>12901157
Never replayed SA. Always replayed VC and 3.

Adding dating and the other sim shit was definitely the beginning of the end. Just look at the state GTA6 is in lol

>>12907625
what am I supposed to hate about 6, again? on a mechanical level.

>>12901157
no, that was 4, and how all the new games had to be in the modern day, with unlikeable characters, terrible radio stations with real celebs as DJs, "realistic" car physics, and a bunch of unnecessary shit like tv channels, friend minigames, and achievements

>>12907763
Dating and the other sim shit. Can't you read?

>>12907280
>Mafia was abhorrent dogshit
lmao which mission filtered you?

People seem to be real upset you could do unnecessary side activities in gta games. You can of course argue they took tens of hours per activity for someone to implement and test which could have been used to make main missions stronger or something. I mean the best critiques of SA & IV are imo the money systems are completely wasted or full of shit. IV doesn't do this but older gta games freely tell you to buy the weapons from shops but some missions take the weapons away, same with dying, and then they inform you to hand over 120k to buy this property you didn't know you had to save for to proceed main storyline. But IV on the other hand doesn't have anything to spend the money on, even if it handles weapons better. You feel kind of wealthy wearing a suit and using taxi to fast travel everywhere, this is good, but I realized during one playthru that you can immediately start using taxi to fast travel anywhere when taxis become available and you have like 100 bucks to your name. They are pretty cheap and you don't need to buy anything, you are handed weapons.

>>12907774
1. you don't have to do it
2. why should I hate it

>>12907801
GTA never really knew what to do with money until Online. in the 2D games, it was just a scorecount with a dollar symbol arbitrarily assigned to it. when they moved to 3D, it became actual in-game currency rather than a scorecount, and they always struggled to reconcile that switch.

a mod I've wanted to do for San Andreas is change up how you earn money. a lot of the story missions for example have no logical reason for CJ to earn money from them, so removing the financial reward from them makes sense. CJ really should be broke for much of the story until you get to Las Venturas.

>>12907816
Scarface 2006 game had a functional money system and game loop and reputation levels and shit where at first 50k will feel like you are getting somewhere but it becomes pocket change when you are playing with tens of millions all the time + weapons and ammo are actually stored in the mansion or vehicles and not all on your person. That game did so many things well, even so that IV implemented some of the stuff like the phone being part of gameplay loop and wanted level being a radius on map.

>>12907827
Scarface also wholesale lifted its plot from the movie, so getting that stuff right was an easy layup. GTA has consistently been inspired by Scarface but they've tried to weave their own narrative rather than just outright copy it. even Vice City tries to do its own thing a lot of the time.

>>12907807
Yes you don't have to do it and yes devs should never use their time on such vaginal things like sim shit in a GTA game and yes you are completely responsible for your own thoughts and emotions so yes you don't have to hate it because that's totally up to you. Thanks for asking.

>>12907839
The plot in Scarface game is actually pretty childish other than the basic idea that he survives the ending of the movie and builds back up. More people played the game because it has Pacino's face on Tony's character, that is a given, but the gameplay and money loop were still something else.

>>12907841
>they shouldn't do it because I personally don't like it
this is the most vaginal shit in your post.

>>12907852
Why don't you just play the sims? The gameplay for GTA was perfected in the first game. You secondaries have other games to go play.

Now gb2/v/ with your no u childishness.

>>12907278
>>12907369
why the fuck would you not play the PC port with SilentPatch, Project2DFX and the rest of the mods instead of the PS2 version? It's been 22 years you retarded niggers

>>12907881
I do play the PC version, but with a mouse and a keyboard. There are very few games on PC that require a controller at all.

>>12907860
why don't you just play Saints Row?
you still haven't explained why I should hate it, you've just been crying about a gameplay mechanic you personally don't like.
>accusing me of being a /v/irgin when you're parroting the exact same overly-emotional contrarian nonarguments they do
holy mother of projection

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>>12907461
What categories? Where am I wrong? The further you go past 2007 the harder it is to find a game that absolutely invalidates a past game in its genre or specific niche. I could list more non /vr/ examples but it isn't much. The retro or near retro game is always gonna be the peak. Like DMC3. You can't find a hack and slash with more depth and polished design as DMC3. It's just not possible.

>>12907914
then you specifically don't even care about using R2/L2, why bother replying to me? I agree btw, I also play the OG Trilogy on M+KB

>>12901157
Vice City and San Andreas always felt like GTAIII mods to me and not fully realized sequels.

>>12901157
The irony of this statement as the newest release looms and will most likely be the highest selling of anything media related for a long time.

>>12907827
So Scarface is pretty good then huh?

>>12901157
Good example of something selling more but being less culturally relevant than the thing it's compared to (GTAVC).

>>12907769
GTA IV raped and gaped you, see >>12906738

>>12906738
>Lists a bunch of shit because it's on more powerful hardware
Kek, fucking retarded.

>>better atmosphere
>>better world design and immersion
>>can fast travel with taxis instead of having to constantly drive from one end of the map to the other
>>can instantly restart missions via the phone
Insanely laughable because the map is so bad and unmemorable no WANTS to drive on it. That's why you would take a taxi 80% of the time. Also you restart missions because you're bad and because the game is practically a movie with how it scripts you into a linear chase or sequence. Fuck off with this IV shit. It's a horrible fucking game that you played when you were young and impressionable. I don't give a single shit about your "moments" with it on shitty ass PS3. Which yet again... is NOT RETRO.

I also need to say the game controls like shit on foot and in vehicles, but you're a brain damaged moron who thinks sluggish movement is epic and cinematic so there is no getting this point across to (You).

>>12907860
Bwhahaha you definitely came from there, that's for sure.

>>12907915
Listen, Mr. Narcissist, you're not actually special. No one is telling you to hate anything. The world doesn't revolve around you. So stop going off topic and take you baby insults back to /v/. If you like vaginal sim shit then like it. They are very out of place in a GTA game though and were the beginning of the end. Now we have weirdo shit in GTA6 because of it like taking some goblina out shopping and refilling gas tanks and probably paying taxes and getting doctor checkups and other assorted mundane shit too lol

>>12908521
no u

>>12901157
The real problem was the later ports .

>>12907841
why do you talk like a reddit/blusky bi cross dressing male who thinks his opinions are higher than shit?

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>>12901157
That was 4. SA is the peak of GTA and all the later stories were great too. Especially the recent VCS decomp that gives engine level freeaim is kino. SA>VCS>VC>LCS>4>5>3
https://youtu.be/ggDcTkV_x1g

>>12910965
The 2 games for vice city stories I have on ps2. found them complete at a retro game store about 8 years ago. still play them on ps2 on occasion but prefer emulation at this point. I found the games quite a bit more fun than I was expecting and had some features I liked.

GTA was always a dogshit series carried by nostalgia. It's no coincidence that's every fan's favorite game in the series just so happens to be the one they played first.

I prefer Simpsons Hit and Run

>>12910965
Absolutely abhorrent insultingly bad taste. Kys

>>12909781
>it's bad because I SAID SO and you are a NARCISSIST if you disagree
holy projection, gain some self-awareness

>>12907215
>Emmet's entire existence is trivialized 5 minutes after you meet him.
Sort of like the gang warfare mechanic where 5 missions after learning it the game throws it away until it's brought back at the very end of the game.

>>12908509
No game is a better period piece than GTAIV is of early 2000s NYC. The attention to detail and immersion of the city is absolutely next level.

San Andreas map is just a giant, bloated, disjointed, rushed clusterfuck that goes rapidly downhill as you progress in the story. Not to mention that you can't even enter fucking interiors without TWO LOADING SCREENS (something even GTA3 had figured out btw) all just to see the same copy-pasted interior the size of a shoebox with nothing to do anyways.

GTA all garbage games all those games aged badly the most pretentious retro games GTA is not real retro

>>12912708
>The attention to detail and immersion of the city is absolutely next level.
>it's next level because of cell phones and internet
Yeah okay sir.

>>12912743
>Game is literally just simple driving, shooting, basically retarded gangster simulator, optionally you can do other shit to move the story along
>This is pretentious some how.

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Emmet's purpose is narrative to demonstrate how far the Grove has fallen behind the other gangs
From a worldbuilding perspective, his inclusion heightens the player's nostalgia, and you never know, a new player might be so hopeless as to need his shitty 9mm pickup

>>12912994
>his inclusion heightens the player's nostalgia
Oops, I meant immersion, but made a Freudian slip

>>12912995
How is that a Freudian slip?

>>12901157
i feel GTA-SA has a great map and side activites. everything feels good unlike most of competition. Other than Mafia 1 you didnt have a ''open world'' game with such a great vehicle system. most open world failed for having a poor traversal system and sandbox.

>>12908509
IV has a broken script system allows for more freedom than SA. i feel that you are kind right about IV being a movie game since if you fail the game just sends you to the next checkpoint. you can exploit that to make a already easy game easier. IV fanboys think that GTA IV open ended design was intentional

>>12907914
I use both, mouse+kb for walking and shooting, and controller for driving. I really don't get why this is not more popular in games lile that, it's basically the best of both worlds.

lel

GTA IV is boring and bland
SA was the reason GTA became a household name in the first place

>>12907269
The driving in Mafia 1 and 2 was indeed peak. The shooting however was kinda ass in 1 and just OK in 2, the physx and destruction in 2 was fantastic and did a lot of heavy lifting.