>Fighter>Mage>ThiefThis is all you need for an rpg; anything more is just bloat.
>>3971165Ackshually, it was "Fighting Man", "Magic User" and "Cleric".
>>3971165>Sword>BoardThis is all you need; anything else is bloat.
>>3971166How is a cleric not just a mage that can use a shield?
>>3971165FighterClericMageIs the truth in encapsuled the very essence of being a man:>FighterThe essence of strength itself to improve oneself >MageThe power of mind to think and preserve>ClericThe power of faith and to endure any trail you may face>ThiefPussy shit>>3971166Blessed is the mind too small for doubt
>>3971192How is a thief not just a fighter who can shut his fucking mouth? How is an archer not just a smarter fighter?
>>3971165>white male two handed fighterrest if bloatwizards are evil btw
>>3971165Actually, you just need "Hero"
>>3971165Thief is unnecessary, and only exists because common sense skills were arbitrarily ripped from everyone else. Lemme guess, you want magic, reality bending butter knives that ignore armor, and spindly, scrawny fucks using bows, too?
A fighter that doesn't carry a bow, a two hander, a blunt weapon, and a sword and board is a fake fighter.
>>3971165>tfw no Kineticist or BloodragerBut I'm SPECIAL! I need a special class!
>>3971300Primalist may not be needed but it sure the fuck is enjoyable, unlike being a >>3971165 styled contrarian in hopes it will make you an intersting person.
>>3971275disarming traps from chests and locks is common sense?
>>3971165>>Fighter>>Mage>>Thiefneed a heal slut priestess to suck my RPG(really perky gonads)
>>3972613Yes
>>3971165>Fighter/Mage >Gish>Spellblade>Spellsword>Magus >Bladesinger>Mysic Knight>Mystic Fencer >Battlemage>Bladecaster>Witchblade >HexbladeThis is the only class that has ever, or will ever matter in any RPG. Everything else is boring bloat.IMHO
>>3972811Absolutely not. You're the kind of idiot who thinks you can totally wrestle into submission a dragon the size of a house.
>>3972811And by this logic I assume you believe wielding a sword and shield is common sense too? A wizard is smart! Why is there not just one class that does everything?
>>3972845NoThe time a wizard spends researching magic precludes physical training, the time a fighter spends physically training precludes researching magic. The wizard is assumed capable of most kinds of magic, the fighter is assumed capable of most kinds of physical combat. They may have their own specialties within the things they can do, but they are fundamentally capable of their spheres. Niether are idiots, but they have chosen to invest their time differently. If you really want to squint, the existence of Clerics and Druids or similar forms of alternative mage can be accepted, since while they are fundamentally wizards, their studies are different and non-interchangable enough that it could be argued they are different. I think that's a stretch, but I can see it argued. A fighter that prefers wearing light armor and using bows is still a fighter. A fighter that prefers great weapons and no armor, is still a fighter. A fighter that prefers heavy armor, shields, and a sling is still a fighter. And a Fighter, as written and intended, is capable of all these things provided proper equipment and a reason to do it, as the situation requires. And a fighter that prefers using magic augmentation when possible isn't a spellblade, he's just not an idiot.
>>3972833>he can't overpower building sized lizardslmao get a load of this weak little faggot
>>3972833NoThe leverage is all wrong, no amount of physical strength can allow someone to do this. At best, they could pin the wings up, and even that requires a tremendously strong person.Picking locks is completely common sense, because I figured out how to do it in like a week. I could absolutely get better at it, but it has not taken years of focused effort to become competent at it. I cannot spend like a week becoming an Olympic athlete. That takes years of effort that would have otherwise defined my lifestyle before this. Moving quietly is common sense. Developing a sense and instinct for traps in a dungeon comes from experience being in dungeons, like an adventurer, not from robbing and prison shanking people, like a thief.It's concerning that you think these two cases are equivalent, however.
>>3972869Do you even Archimedes, bro?
>>3972864>The time a wizard spends researching magic precludes physical training, the time a fighter spends physically training precludes researching magic. Except you can have a physically strong wizard in every edition in D&D, yet he still can't use simple weapons like spears or equip a set of chainmail at all. Stop rationalizing this shit.>>3972869>Moving quietly is common sense. Developing a sense and instinct for traps in a dungeon comes from experience being in dungeons, like an adventurer, not from robbing and prison shanking people, like a thief."Thieves" are just "adventurers" in a practical sense. They're half-way between a fighter and wizard in terms of martial capability, but where the fighter over-specializes, a thief is far more comfortable in the role of a generalist who can do many other things at once.
>>3972927>physically strong wizard in every edition in D&DDoesn't qualify for exceptional strength>equip a set of chainmailInterferes with somatic spell componentsYou're mistaking "talent" for "practiced skill and training"
>>3972933>Doesn't qualify for exceptional strengthYou don't need "exceptional strength" to use a spear and chainmail.>Interferes with somatic spell componentsAnd when you're not casting, what then?>You're mistaking "talent" for "practiced skill and training"Doesn't matter, the line is arbitrary.
>>3971192They are holy man, mages are standard wizards.>>3971197Thieves are functionnaly mages, but with skills instead of spells.
>>3972829>Gish
>>3972829damnwish I could play as a Bard(Blade kit).I really like when I can fight with swords and melee and supplement my fighting style with magic.
>>3971165>class slopyawn
>>3971166>"Fighting Man"The term was "Fighter."
>>3971300she's not allowed at the boys-only table.
>>3976331NTA. “Fighting man” predates “fighter” by years, just like “magic user” predates “mage”
>>3976346"Fighter" is younger, but it's still the correct term.
>>3971165Who's healing this party? The mage?
>>3977533Resting heals you.
>>3977533>Who's healing this party?Wickwheat and marshmerrow shakes
>>3971165The difference between bloat and variety is implementation.
>>3977603>Goblins stabs you in the knee.>Group A: No healer just rest>6~8 weeks of immobilization>4 weeks of progressive physical therapy>rest of your life: permanent mobility loss, scarring, pain, adventurer's insurance won't cover it>Groub B: Dedicated healer >healer prays for like 20 seconds>knee completely healed>remember to thank my healerI know which party I'm joining.
>>3977623I used to be a shitposter like you, until I took a career-ending injury to the knee.
>>3977533Nobody, you rest like in classic tabletop games.
>>3977623Just drink a healing potion
>>3977533They don't need to heal because a warrior should be mitigating any damage coming the party's way, the thief should be scouting ahead for danger, and the mage should have a solution tucked somewhere in their spellbook.
>>3977693>Do one combat>Spend 8+ months healing up>Another 4+ months of rehab>Accumulate lifelong debilitating injuries each timeNice party comp retard.>>3977703>Spend gold each time you tank a hitNah, I'll just bring a healer.
>>3977705And who heals the warrior, numb nuts?
>>3977623>3 negorian mages>1 darky knight>allan snackbars. blood for the blood god!!! kek kek kek!it's all optics man.
>>3977706>Surgery doesn't exist>Medicine doesn't exist>Magic healing elixirs in fantasy land don't exist>Doctors in big cities don't exist>Wild shamans/medicine men don't exist>He thinks medieval troops spent 1 year recovering from injuries instead of mounting up for the next battle next week/monthDie faggot
To me, the most sensible is:Fighter (Focuses on combat)Rogue (Focuses on tricks, slight of hand, stealth, charisma)Magic-User (Focuses on powerful spells, but only has a few available for any given situation so you better be ready)Cleric (Focuses on a bit of everything, plus faith)
>>3977737He's right, prior to the industrial revolution basically none of that shit existed and the form it did exist was mostly ineffective. You're far more likely to get an infection and die than you were to recover from an injury.
>>3977774GURPS does a good job of gamifying medicine / recovery according to historically-accurate technology progression (the term you'll find in the books is "tech level").
>>3977774Fantasy adventures only work if you have some kind of magical healing, be that a guy who casts healing spells, a guy who brews healing potions, or if everyone in the group just has wolverine's healing factor for some reason. Real healing is slow, and even seemingly minor injuries can lead to major complications.
Paladins are the only class anyone needs.>Beat the shit out of monsters>Heal yourself>Bash open treasure chests with warhammer>Just walk through traps and heal yourself>Bring some friends along if you get bored, resurrect them when they do retarded shit>All the women lust after your purity, so you can choose the most virtuous one to impregnateEasy life, blessed be God.
>>3977917Exactly right.I see (D&D) Clerics as basically a variation on the Paladin concept but shifted more towards the God side of the equation.
>>3971185Third posts the charm or something. PRAISE THE SUN!
>>3973078This. Thief class has the body, the physical realm, maxed. The mage has the mental, psychological, while having a paltry body.It's give 'n' take baby, compromise - the way of life. For now.
>>3971165It's still funny that being a criminal became a fundamental role in rpgs.
>>3978031Blame Bilbo the Burgler
>>3971165What's the SF equivalent of these?
>>3978332RyuDhalsim'Gief
no matter what you pick you only get a fraction of the experience. the hero should be a fighter who can use magic and sneak around
>>3978386Fuck off, Todd
>>3978374
>>3977917>Paladins>Easy life"Though the knight commanded respect, he was rarely envied. His life was dangerous and brutal, marked by incessant confrontations and the constant threat of humiliation. Rather than adventuring for honor or pleasure, most engaged in a constant struggle for income, desperately seeking any and all opportunities to earn an honest living. The rigid chivalric code, which made abstract principles of loyalty more important than life itself, resulted in a death sentence for most knights. Few lived beyond age 30. Those who survived often spent their remaining years penniless and broken, depending on the charity of a society that had all but forgotten them.">-AD&D 2nd edition, the complete paladin's handbook
>>3972955>While [Magic-users] have mighty spells of offensive, defensive, and informational nature, magic-users are very weak in combat. They have but four-sided dice (d4) to determine how many hit points of damage they can withstand, and magic-users have the least favorable table and progression as regards missile and melee combat. Furthermore, they can wear no armor and have few weapons they can use, for martial training is so foreign to magic-use as to make the two almost mutually exclusive.-AD&D 1st ed PHB>Spending their lives in pursuit of arcane wisdom, wizards have little time for physical endeavors. They tend to be poor fighters with little knowledge of weapons.>Spells are the tools, weapons, and armor of the wizard. He is weak in a toe-to-toe fight>Wizards cannot wear any armor, for several reasons. Firstly, most spells require complicated gestures and odd posturings by the caster and armor restricts the wearer's ability to do these properly. Secondly, the wizard spent his youth (and will spend most of his life) learning arcane languages, poring through old books, and practicing his spells. This leaves no time for learning other things (like how to wear armor properly and use it effectively). If the wizard had spent his time learning about armor, he would not have even the meager skills and powers he begins with.>For similar reasons, wizards are severely restricted in weapons they can use. They are limited to those that are easy to learn or are sometimes useful in their own research. Hence, a wizard can use a dagger or a staff, items that are traditionally useful in magical studies. Other weapons allowed are darts, knives, and slings (weapons that require little skill, little strength, or both)-AD&D 2nd ed PHBIt's an attempt to balance the classes. If you wanted a mage who could fight, roll a fighter/mage multiclass, and sacrifice some of your spellcasting for fighting ability.
>>3971275based thief hater>stealth is invisibilityfuck off with that shit
>>3971185>>Sword>>Board>This is all you need; anything else is bloat.
>>3978665>t.>later that day
>>3971165>ThiefNah. Trash archetype .>stealingEither a side activity that can be performed without a dedicated thief or immersion-breaking savescumming/metagaming bait. >disarming trapsDogshit mechanic. Skill monkey dispelling invisible environmental hazard is antithetical to Indiana Jones style set pieces that dungeon traps are trying to replicate.>stealthConsistently shitty and underdeveloped in every game where it's not the main focus, especially in RPGs.>lockpickingHeld back by level designers' skill issues.>bows and daggersAh, yes, the arbitrary "dex" weapons that are somehow too sophisticated for a fighter, an expert in all things martial.
You need a THF in the party because without Treasure Hunter your chance to get that rare drop off that enemy that only spawns once every 72~86 hours is going to be at a 2.1% rate instead of the optimal 6.275% rate
>>3978683>rare dropsNot even once.
>>3978685I'm sorry for your loss, but that's what you get for not bringing a THF.
>>3978680>Ah, yes, the arbitrary "dex" weapons that are somehow too sophisticated for a fighter, an expert in all things martial.What kind of retarded rpg system are you talking about where fighters can't use bows or daggers?
>>3978680Problem with stealth classes is they basically need the entire game built around them to truly shine. That's how Thief came to be, for example.
>>3977917As far as D&D originally went Paladins were supposed to be anything but easy to play.>strict stat spread just to play as one>oaths you had to keep>alignment limitations
>>3977693This is the solution in tabletop RPGs without magical healing. But then again, you have downtime to account for some seasons like winter were not relegated to war, for example. In practice it makes mass combat a suicide and fighting in general a last resort thing where you want to stack the odds in your favor. Add honor to the mix for nightmare difficulty.
>>3972811enjoy getting raped to death by literally any mimic, retard
>>3978748>strict stat spread just to play as oneDoesn't make it harder to play, just less likely.>oaths you had to keep>alignment limitationsUnless the DM is set on having you fall for storyfaggot reasons, it's impossible to fail on those points and they instead become easy to follow guidelines on how to roleplay your character.
>>3977917>>3977925pretty sure paladins can't rez the dead. unless there's some new rules in DnD i don't care about.and yes clerics are good for everything, except lockpicking.
>>3978914oath of poverty sounds neat until you have to live by it
>>3972613For an adventuring person?Yes, very common sense. Same with repairing and maintenance of your gear, basic medical skills, recognizing common plants, starting fire, cooking and whatever can be logically concluded from your background - you papa was a horse keeper and mother a tailor and you did not had tragic backstory with them dying when you were little babu, so you have some basic knowledge about what they were doing.
>>3978679Crassus had severe skill issues. Caesar would have won.
>>3978758>like winterJust equip all your soldiers with snowshoes and skis.
>>3979287Caesar would have run better reconnaissance and never gotten himself in such a situation, but if he was in command of the battle the result would have been the same. No amount of tactical brilliance would have saved Carrhae for the Romans. That battle was won and lost with logistics.
>>3976332That's a male.
I am a strict purist when it comes to adventuring party size in RPGs. It should be either solo, or 6-8. I don't like the mediocrity of 3-4 niggas (in a row or otherwise), which a lot of games have settled into. Very few of them do something different with that limited party size. It's usually the same strict class distinction as in bigger party titles, but you have fewer people.
>>3971165>less options = goodMissing the point entirely. There should be as many options & variations as possible so you can tailor your build & character concept any way you want. This approach only becomes a problem if it’s half-assed and filled with trap options that are just mechanically the same as others but worse. If you simplify it to the basics of just three pure classes then your title will be flooded with casuals because you’ve made it too accessible & bland.
>>3981196>If you simplify it to the basics of just three pure classes then your title will be flooded with casuals because you’ve made it too accessible & bland.What's the rationale here?
>>3971197Thief is lateral thinking, circumvention, he has a place.
>>3981196>There should be as many options & variations as possible so you can tailor your build & character concept any way you want.This is the kind of midwit thinking that led to disgusting superfluous bloat like Pathfinder. The point of RPG mechanics is to facilitate and implement roleplaying, they’re not the end in and of themselves. If you can’t satisfactorily roleplay “fighter” as the special snowflake you’re imagining, that’s on you, not the ruleset. You don’t need nineteen different types of “arcane caster, stat X, stat Y, half caster, 3/4ths caster, spontaneous caster” etc. you want a fighter/mage multiclass? There you go, fighter/mage multiclass with a split to taste.Play your sheet.
>>3981220>You make it too easy >Activist tourists easily pass the barrier of entry >They become the loud minority and start astroturfing politics using your game >Paying normies and faggots leave to something more entertaining and less obnoxious >You're forced to pander to unpaying audience that eats their own >You escalate the pandering in hopes of translating political autism to money. You fail.>You're forever marked as the developer of "THAT GAME" and have much lower chance of attracting people for your next game.Make things harder. Force people to engage with complex systems. Filter out those who don't care about games.
>>3981264>Force people to engage with complex systemsTalking about “engaging with a games systems” is on par with using the term “macromastia” to mean “I like really big tits”. It does not make you sound smarter.
>>3981267What? Why do you think that common phrase is "smart speech" in the first place?
>>3981196>>3981264..Is this the same anon?
>>3981270No.
>>3981269>Why do you think that common phrase is "smart speech" in the first place?It’s not, but /vrpg/ anons repeat it all the time to prove they’re part of the big boy very serious RPG enthusiast club. “Engaging with a games mechanics” and “engaging with a games systems”. No you don’t understand I’m not like those other people who play video games to have fun like peasants, I’m ““engaging”” with the “”mechanical systems””. It’s a pretentious shibboleth.
>>3981281>It’s a pretentious shibboleth.It's a phrase coined by normie game journos and is a shorter way to say "paying close attention to X". You're sperging over something that's never been an issue.
>>3972829Based
>>3978646>slings>little skill>darts>little skillImpale Gary gygax. Crush Gary gygax's balls with a hammer. Inoculate Gary gygax with zyklon b.
>>3981289>You're sperging over something that's never been an issue.I’m deeply immersed in the boards mechanics, and engaging with its systems.
>Warrior>Paladin/cleric (faggy warrior)>Mage>Priest (faggy mage)>Thief>ArcherThese are the 6 true classes.
>>3971166truth nuke
>>3972927>wizard can't equip chainmailblud never heard of elven mail
