Let's focus on the Lunatic Pandora.It's a monolithic superweapon. Very different from the "WEAPONS" that appeared on the world map in FF7. It even has a force field that the Ragnarok had to force it's way through. *cue battle theme: Force Your Way*The difference is that the all-caps "WEAPONS" in FF7 are spawned by the planet as a kind of self-defense or immune response. Presumably to attack Jenova; although the world building around that is kind of shaky in my opinion.Similar concepts to this was the Giant of Babil in FF4. And of course SIN in FF10.
>>3982335I love you, brother.
>>3982335Of course the biggest difference is that it's not a giant "kaiju" monster at all. And is used to draw a tidal wave of monsters down from the moon.But FF7 also had giant artillery canons as well.The "Sister Ray" for example. But why was it even called the "Sister Ray"? If the Pandora was called "Sister Ray" you'd think it would have something to do with "Sis" a.k.a. Ellone. Since Dr.Odine was studying both the Lunatic Pandora and Ellone's powers at the same time.
>>3982338It's speculated that the "Sister" in FF7's "Sister Ray" was a title. Like what you'd call a Catholic Nun. Although, concept art reveals that Cid's Tiny Bronco had "Sister Ray" decals. This plane, in-world, was also developed by Shinra for combat over the open water. As you know, in the world of FF8, all planes have been grounded due to a radio interference. Model planes can be seen in F.H.'s Mayor's house. As F.H. is occupied by former scientists that built war machines for Esthar. Or rather, for Sorceress Adel.
>>3982345The religious connotations feel out of place for FF7 and FF8. They have churches, but there wasn't much said about faiths in those worlds, compared to FF10's Yevonites or the Church of Glabados in FF Tactics.But consider that FF7's development was tied up with Xenogears, which is full of biblical references. If FF8 had a biblical reference, it would have to be with the Wormwood prophecy. Revelations predicted a falling star that would turn the waters of the world bitter. Like Absinth. The drink, Absinth, is made from a plant, "wormwood" a.k.a. "Artemisia" (an alternate spelling of Ultimecia)Some people think the Wormwood prophecy occurred with the Chernobyl disaster. They had to build a Sarcophagus or "shelter object" around the reactor to contain the radiation. The pandora contains a crystal pillar that supposedly fell from the moon during the lunar cry that destroyed the Centra continent. Interestingly, Dr. Odine says he only discovered and "serviced" the Pandora. Likewise, Laguna mentions tombstones when they come across the excavation site. What they might be pointing at, is that the survivors of the Centra Civilization built the Pandora around the pillar as a sarcophagus.
>>3982385We know that tombstones can contain spirits of the dead, as seen in the Tomb of the unknown king. Ironically, the spirit you release asks "Why do we do this?"The game mentions that The Moon has somekind of passive property to erase memories or at least prevent recall. So potentially FF8 could have monsters come for ghosts that have forgotten their humanity. Alternatively. The crystal pillar could be some kind of nuclear waste that Centra was disposing of on the Moon. The Ultimania guide implies that the Lunar Cry phenomenon only began at a certain point in history. This same concept was used by Eureka in FFTA2, only instead of "the moon" they were were dumping magical waste into a rift. FF14 also has a Void Ark ship. A certain civilization at a certain point in time harnessed voidsent entities to power their machines.
>>3982389The void ark ended up being a major part of Diabolos' story in FF14. He was summoned and sealed during the war of the magi. It would probably be safe to assume that the Sorceress Wars are essentially the same thing. Although we never got an explanation or motivation behind the war. We also never saw the Trabia Capital in FF8, which was apparently going to be a castle. Possibly including a church. It would make sense if the Sorceress Wars started out as a Witch Hunt, started by the church. A famous witch hunter was Heinrich Kramer. And isn't it interesting that Cid's last name is also "Kramer".
This is some skitzo shit. Pretty sure it's just an evil witch tower that does evil witch tower things.
>>3982469Baseless conspiracy theories about Marina Abramovic and Spirit Cooking have been repeatedly debunked by authoritative sources. Your post is harmful misinformation that violates our community guidelines.
>>3982394too many coinkidinks to be accidentalyoure on to it, whatever it is
The Gardens were originally "Centra Mobile Shelters". A novel interpretation I'm proposing is that they're not fallout shelters or "arks" meant to move a population to safety. I'm proposing they were "shelter objects" meant to move in and contain the energies of lunar cry events. Because the Lunar Cry doesn't just rain monsters down from the moon. They also transform the wildlife. So in theory they didn't just move monsters into the Balamb Garden training center. That was just the environment the shelter moved in to contained.
FF15 might have had something similar with the Solheim civilization. Only instead of Lunar Cry events, they had to deal with Star Scourge and "daemons". I always thought the "Disc of Cauthess" was just a bizarre impact crater created by Titan catching the Meteor of the Six. However, what was there previously, in the Duscae Region, was the Solheim Civilization.Most of what remains of Solheim are called "tombs" and "sarcophagi". Whenever they came across a daemon they couldn't fell, they would seal it underground for the "True King" to deal with some day. This is what the Oracles and Kings of Lucius did. And they even had "The Old Wall" that had 12 giant statues to defend the city. These were animated by the spirit of the king placed in a "coffin". All of that based on lost Solheim technology.
>>3982494>The Gardens were originally "Centra Mobile Shelters"Do you have a single fact to back that up?
>>3982500Just these AI Generated Screenshots.
>>3982503Actually it says the shelter was used to move people. And if you talk to Mr.Monkey (What? You didn't talk to Mr.Monkey?!) He tells you where a Centra city used to be. That said. There are a number of contradictions. Like it says Centra was destroyed only 80 years ago - that is a confirmed typo. Dr.Odine also talked about finding and "servicing" the Lunatic Pandora. Which kind of implies Esthar didn't build it. Although if you read the entry on Tears' Point, it says Esthar DID build the "security box" around the crystal pillar and that this was to keep it away from Tears' Point which is the origin of the Lunar Cry. But it doesn't elaborate on that. And it didn't actually stop it's arrival anyways.
>>3982505FF8 obviously has a lot of loose plot threads and setting details that go nowhere because it had large chunks of its story cut out and the leftovers stitched back together, where we can still see some remnants of the lost picture at the seams
There had to have been a connection between Ellone's powers and Lunar Cry events. As if she emits a frequency that attracts monsters. In a Laguna flashback, he rescues her from Dr. Odine's "Lab 0". They don't mention what it is or why she's there. But in the present, while Lunatic Pandora is flying over Esthar, you can visit Lab 0, and see that some scientists have locked themselves in this chamber. I think they called it a hyperbaric chamber. Like they were anticipating a Lunar Cry, and thought they'd be safe in there. Maybe Lunar Cry events turn people "Akashic". Aether Floods and "Akashic" are from FF16. Basically it's a strong concentration of mist that erodes people consciousness. Maybe there was a similar process in FF8.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nvIMPyPX_XYFF12 also had "mist" and a minor plot point about possession. It appears the Viera race can host Occuria in their bodies. In the Occuria capital, Giruvegan, their appeared to be a circle of giant Viera statues. As if they lived together or perhaps as slaves.
>>3982335>Let's focus on the Lunatic Pandora.>It's a monolithic superweapon. Very different from the "WEAPONS" that appeared on the world map in FF7.>The difference is that the all-caps "WEAPONS" in FF7 are spawned by the planet as a kind of self-defense or immune response.Something to consider that you may be overlooking is that the Luna Cry is a naturally occurring event. This parallels it with the WEAPONS by making it a naturally occurring 'infection'. The Lunatic Pandora exists as a means to open the proverbial box and unleash the terrors of the Luna Cry upon the world. Being able to do so 'early' - before the infection accumulates to that of global calamity - and being able to call it down on a specific location are weaponized benefits. >>3982394>We also never saw the Trabia Capital in FF8, which was apparently going to be a castle.Or maybe we do see it... what we know as Ultimecia's Castle likely existed before her reign.
God I love ff8 so much
>>3982385Xenogears a shit
>>3982714I had a much longer post about the parallels between FF7 and Xenogears. Like, FF7 had the Tiny Broncho, while XG had the Goliath. The Goliath was equipped with "gatekeeper" techWhile FF7 had a little quest with the the Keystone to enter the temple of the ancients. Because Edea was recycled from FF7, I once speculated about what she her role would have been if they kept her in. My guess was that you would have gotten the keystone from her.
>>3982745She might have also appeared in the parade with Rufus. Because why would it be any different?
but FF8 doesn't have planes, because, reasons. If you didn't know, btw, they cut FF7's "Rocket Town" from the Remake Part 2. Cid is just a glorified air cab that takes you from Gongaga to Cosmo Canyon. And then when you get to the part with the Temple of the Ancients, he just waits outside with Vincent, I guess.
"Galdin Quay" was where Noctis was suppose to take a boat over to his wedding. Right off the coast is an island called "Angelgard". It's super frustrating how important that location is to the story, and yet it's dummied out with a mountain of other content.https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wpiHIgutP40
>>3982745Xenogears a shit
>>3982806In Xenogears, the "Gaetia Key" (probably meant to be "Goetia", as in the Goetia demons from the Lesser Key of Solomon)Turns most humans into Wels. I think it turns their nanomachine "limiters" off, so they transform into monsters. We only see it in a cutaway cutscene, so I'm not sure where exactly it's supposed to be. The humans transform, and then the sound/frequency they make triggers another lock. Causing the Mahanon to rise out of the ocean.
>>3982819The Key probably stayed with Emperor Cain. Or the Grazel Ministry who were in the Sol-9000 supercomputer on the Ezekiel (the "fish bowl" ship that wasn't actually named in game)At a stretch, I would say the Ezekiel corresponds with The Galbadia Garden. And if raising the Mahanon was like raising the Pandora from the ocean -- it sorta explains how Seifer was able to do it. They simply always had the key.
>>3982469This is a good point. Chrono Cross also has Terra Tower, raised from the ocean. And Hallow Bastion in Kingdom Hearts was just Radiant Garden that was transfigured by the Witch, Maleficent. And they all have a connection to the moon. Or something that looks like a "moon" at least. Good luck trying to explain the 2nd moon in Chrono Cross.
based schizothreadR=U
>>3983025I think the problem they all have is a lack of narrative merit. I mean, Disc 3 is all spectacle. Adel's Tomb, the lunar cry, The Lunatic Pandora...it was all meaningless. Speaking of "keys". We have to talk about Kingdom Hearts. The Witch Maleficent, was abducting the Princesses to use their pure hearts to open "Kingdom Hearts". The story evolved overtime. So looking back at the very first game, they don't really mention the (χ)-blade. Although Riku/Ansem supposedly has an incomplete version of it here >>3982394He stabs Maleficent, "unlocking/freeing her heart". It's not until KH3 and KHUnionχ that FF8's time travel metaphysics start coming into play. Because a heart without a body can travel through time. It's like Ellone's Power. When Maleficent's heart was freed from her body in KH1 she traveled to her own past. Except she went too far back, before her world existed. She ended up in a "Data" world. Her world was predicted, or prophesied, seen and simulated in the far past, sealing her fate. Escaping the virtual reality and returning to the present (KH2) has got to be the best thing across the entire KH series.
Why doesn't this series have more main villainesses? And why does it focus so much on Cloud and Sephiroth and not on Squall and Ultimecia? Or any other hero-villain pair for the matter. The demakes were a failure.
>>3983301Careful now
>>3983304daily reminder that both Seeds and sorceresses wipe the floor with SOLDIERs
>>3983308>the cards at home
Squall = Zack
>>3983342Zack = Laguna
>>3983344Laguna = Vayne Solidor
>>3983352Vayne = Adagium
>>3983330the hell is this
>>3983366FF7 Rebirth = FF8 Remake.
>>3983378Ok that's going too far. Don't insult FFVIII like that.
>>3983378>>3983379Now to be fair it's pretty obvious time jannies would thematically fit within a FF8 remake and be a plausible reason for amending the timeline. It didn't work for FF7 because there was no precedent set within the existing canon.Clud being schizophrenic as a result of mako poisoning, "mis-remembering" the events of the original game and having the remake be a "true" re-telling would have been far more consistent with what has already been established. Unfortunately this would have been a shit-where-you-eat scenario and the hordes of mentally unwell fans who comprise the bulk of the fanbase would likely end up personally triggered and sinking their own ship.
An inspiration for the Pandora's design might have come from the "project looking-glass" conspiracy/urban legend from Bob Lazar. Supposedly over in Area 51, they had reverse engineered ancient alien technology and created a black box that projects a yellow ring or holographic display, to view parallel timelines. That's something in the FF8's help menu, that there are "Multiple Presents". And Time Compression was used by sorceresses to restore their power, because inheriting it through normal succession gradually diminishes it. And if you have played FF7 Rebirth >>3983378That's kind of the new twist. "Reunion = Time Compression". We see Zack crossing parallel dimensions, And Sephiroth is in all of them doing...something. "The planet" isn't just a planet. But more a Yggdrasil tree that branches out into different possibilities that the Cetra once guided.In FF13, the Fal'cie Orphan exists in a similar state of "always in the future". Eden has this dimensional corridor that relays everything. When the Fal'cie Anima is defeated at the start of FF13 it crystalizes an entire lake. The initial idea for FF13-2 was that Eden's dimensional corridors were still open, crystalized. But we got the "History Crux" instead, connecting points in time.
>>3983445And that's what I think the Crystal Pillar was meant to be in FF8. A crystalized wormhole. But potentially, that means, Laguna passed through it into a parallel timeline.
>>3983308Speaking of card games.The Lunatic Pandora card in Magic the Gathering is kind of B.S.I think it should be able to destroy land cards too. I mean, that's what a Lunar Cry does.
>>3983378Anon did you know there's people who have modded FF7 remakes to use FF8 charactersUltimecia replaces SephirothSquall replaces Cloudetc etcreplaced voice lines too with lines spliced from games like Dissidia, FF Mobius and so on
Why does he do it?
>>3983459To speak faith with conviction and without evidence is a sign of courage unknown to the little man.
>>3983448>And that's what I think the Crystal Pillar was meant to be in FF8. A crystalized wormhole.Looks more like a crystallised fleshy pillar of light to me. A fleshlight if you will.
>>3983486>And then along came Zeus!
>>3983468To have courage one needs to be grounded enough in reality to have doubts.
>>3983490Fun FF15 trivia. Angelgard Island is where Ramuh was supposed to have rested after the war of the Astrals. Before that, it was an ancient execution site. Electrocution, specifically. Hence "Judgement Bolt".Of course they ended up stuffing the adagium in there, who is essentially immortal. So was occupied for a long long time.
>>3982505Tears' Point being a "point of origin" is only in the English version. It's basically a misprint. But sometimes that's how things become canon. It is shaped like bowl, as if it was built in a crater.
>>3983685The Niflheim capital is also built in a crater, but it's not explicitly mentioned anywhere in the game. I don't think. Maybe in the Episode Ardyn DLC. You have to wonder if there are ordinary meteors that can form ordinary craters. Or if the meteor shards are all hazardous "star scourge" material.
The German version says the starscourge came from meteor. That's basically canon at this point.
>>3983691That's like saying Meteor and Jenova were related in FF7. But the game says the ancients NEVER used the black materia. So the "calamity from the sky" and the northern crater must have been something else. Jenova was was "excavated" from a geological strata. But it never says where the excavation was from. I've read fan theories thinking the Ancients just dumped Jenova down a crevasse in Cosmo Canyon or something. A lot of people picture the Northern Crater because that's where the player is when they learn about it. But logistically it doesn't make sense.
Speaking of Cosmo Canyon. I wanted to point out that sometimes ideas shift during the games development or aren't executed like the scenario writers intended. I was talking about the plane Goliath in Xenogears earlier. It was meant to bomb the desert city Aveh. But why did they need a special plane? Concept art shows Aveh was supposed to be underground, in a canyon or giant crack. With strong winds blowing over it.
The Sunken Gelnika in FF7 is a secret dungeon that was supposed to be carrying monsters meant to defeat Sephiroth, except it got shot down by "weapon" - according to Rude. Presumably Emerald Weapon. I always thought it was in a weird place for the story. Because they just found Sephiroth, and woke up the weapons. In Xenogears, there is also the sunken Zeboim Ruins under the sea. It's part of Emeralda's storyline. How the city sank into an airpocket that's conveniently connected to a lighthouse is pretty farfetched as well. It's fairly obvious that Esthar in FF8 was suppose to be The Emerald City from The Wizard of Oz. There's even a "Yellow Brick Road" labeled in the early world map. I'd go even further and say that Esthar was supposed to be underwater. Purely speculating here, but if water can rain down from the moon, then a reverse flow or geyser must be possible too. Like the water disappears, and that's how Esthar is revealed.
>>3983459Obsessing over fictional worlds means not having to engage with the one he's in.
>>3983990The geyser concept isn't that big of a stretch, because they sort of appeared in FF10. They're not actually mentioned in-game. But they're described in developer notes. We see them in FMVs. We see a number of them in the Far Plain in the distance, with a mysterious moon that's not explained. But also at the Scar of the Fayth on Mt. Gagazet. Yuna sees it and just acknowledges it as "a summoning". When Yuna performed a sending, she also walked on water that lifted her up a bit. Waterbending is apparently very easy on spira. There's the Blizball stadiums too. They're just floating balls of water you can jump into, there's not a glass barrier keeping it in that shape.
>>3983999Originally, Yuna's pilgrimage would have been similar to Lunafreya's in FF15. Curing or absorbing the star scourge. Only this plague killed people when they turned 17. Which was one of the project names: SevenTeen Angel Impact x Devil Shock. If we ever get a Final Fantasy 17, I wouldn't mind if they revisited that idea.
>>3983993can't fault that
>>3983990Xenogears a shit
>>3984316I'm sorry, other than possession, Xenogears doesn't have a lot of direct connections to FF8. It's more useful in seeing what is missing. Xenogears had a mountain of world building. FF8 barely names its own cities. Come on, "Deling City"? Naming a city after the current president. That's weird. But I guess it's better than calling it Galbadia. And I suppose Deling isn't around after Disc 1. And they didn't rename it "Edea City" or "Seifer City" or "Ultimecity" lol. Considering you have to navigate waterways, it loosely corresponds to Bledavik, the capital of Aveh, on the Ignas continent.But that was a desert city that get's water from a natural spring under the castle. According to the Ultimania Guide, Deling City is perpetually cloudy. So it's like FF9's Burmecia. Or Kingdom Heart's Dark City in The World that Never Was. Insomnia in FF15 would have likely still been called Insomina the Versus XIII game "that never was".
I think the thing with Stella is that she's like the anti-Tidus. If you can believe what the leaked documents said about Versus XIII. Where Tidus made it his mission to stop Yuna from sacrificing herself. Stella's mission is basically like - no, you have to die. It's your destiny!Rinoa, in FF8, was like "I'm the sorceress now. It's Squall's destiny to kill me." and in a weird way she's ok with that. Because then nobody has to fight. Now, back in the 90s, killing off girlfriends for the sake a male character development was a problematic writing trend. Because the female characters weren't given much agency. But today's writing has leaned too far in the opposite direction with "toxic masculinity". If Squall had become The Sorceress, would Rinoa or any other Female character stop him from sacrificing himself?
