Let's focus on the Lunatic Pandora.It's a monolithic superweapon. Very different from the "WEAPONS" that appeared on the world map in FF7. It even has a force field that the Ragnarok had to force it's way through. *cue battle theme: Force Your Way*The difference is that the all-caps "WEAPONS" in FF7 are spawned by the planet as a kind of self-defense or immune response. Presumably to attack Jenova; although the world building around that is kind of shaky in my opinion.Similar concepts to this was the Giant of Babil in FF4. And of course SIN in FF10.
>>3982335I love you, brother.
>>3982335Of course the biggest difference is that it's not a giant "kaiju" monster at all. And is used to draw a tidal wave of monsters down from the moon.But FF7 also had giant artillery canons as well.The "Sister Ray" for example. But why was it even called the "Sister Ray"? If the Pandora was called "Sister Ray" you'd think it would have something to do with "Sis" a.k.a. Ellone. Since Dr.Odine was studying both the Lunatic Pandora and Ellone's powers at the same time.
>>3982338It's speculated that the "Sister" in FF7's "Sister Ray" was a title. Like what you'd call a Catholic Nun. Although, concept art reveals that Cid's Tiny Bronco had "Sister Ray" decals. This plane, in-world, was also developed by Shinra for combat over the open water. As you know, in the world of FF8, all planes have been grounded due to a radio interference. Model planes can be seen in F.H.'s Mayor's house. As F.H. is occupied by former scientists that built war machines for Esthar. Or rather, for Sorceress Adel.
>>3982345The religious connotations feel out of place for FF7 and FF8. They have churches, but there wasn't much said about faiths in those worlds, compared to FF10's Yevonites or the Church of Glabados in FF Tactics.But consider that FF7's development was tied up with Xenogears, which is full of biblical references. If FF8 had a biblical reference, it would have to be with the Wormwood prophecy. Revelations predicted a falling star that would turn the waters of the world bitter. Like Absinth. The drink, Absinth, is made from a plant, "wormwood" a.k.a. "Artemisia" (an alternate spelling of Ultimecia)Some people think the Wormwood prophecy occurred with the Chernobyl disaster. They had to build a Sarcophagus or "shelter object" around the reactor to contain the radiation. The pandora contains a crystal pillar that supposedly fell from the moon during the lunar cry that destroyed the Centra continent. Interestingly, Dr. Odine says he only discovered and "serviced" the Pandora. Likewise, Laguna mentions tombstones when they come across the excavation site. What they might be pointing at, is that the survivors of the Centra Civilization built the Pandora around the pillar as a sarcophagus.
>>3982385We know that tombstones can contain spirits of the dead, as seen in the Tomb of the unknown king. Ironically, the spirit you release asks "Why do we do this?"The game mentions that The Moon has somekind of passive property to erase memories or at least prevent recall. So potentially FF8 could have monsters come for ghosts that have forgotten their humanity. Alternatively. The crystal pillar could be some kind of nuclear waste that Centra was disposing of on the Moon. The Ultimania guide implies that the Lunar Cry phenomenon only began at a certain point in history. This same concept was used by Eureka in FFTA2, only instead of "the moon" they were were dumping magical waste into a rift. FF14 also has a Void Ark ship. A certain civilization at a certain point in time harnessed voidsent entities to power their machines.
>>3982389The void ark ended up being a major part of Diabolos' story in FF14. He was summoned and sealed during the war of the magi. It would probably be safe to assume that the Sorceress Wars are essentially the same thing. Although we never got an explanation or motivation behind the war. We also never saw the Trabia Capital in FF8, which was apparently going to be a castle. Possibly including a church. It would make sense if the Sorceress Wars started out as a Witch Hunt, started by the church. A famous witch hunter was Heinrich Kramer. And isn't it interesting that Cid's last name is also "Kramer".
This is some skitzo shit. Pretty sure it's just an evil witch tower that does evil witch tower things.
>>3982469Baseless conspiracy theories about Marina Abramovic and Spirit Cooking have been repeatedly debunked by authoritative sources. Your post is harmful misinformation that violates our community guidelines.
>>3982394too many coinkidinks to be accidentalyoure on to it, whatever it is
The Gardens were originally "Centra Mobile Shelters". A novel interpretation I'm proposing is that they're not fallout shelters or "arks" meant to move a population to safety. I'm proposing they were "shelter objects" meant to move in and contain the energies of lunar cry events. Because the Lunar Cry doesn't just rain monsters down from the moon. They also transform the wildlife. So in theory they didn't just move monsters into the Balamb Garden training center. That was just the environment the shelter moved in to contained.
FF15 might have had something similar with the Solheim civilization. Only instead of Lunar Cry events, they had to deal with Star Scourge and "daemons". I always thought the "Disc of Cauthess" was just a bizarre impact crater created by Titan catching the Meteor of the Six. However, what was there previously, in the Duscae Region, was the Solheim Civilization.Most of what remains of Solheim are called "tombs" and "sarcophagi". Whenever they came across a daemon they couldn't fell, they would seal it underground for the "True King" to deal with some day. This is what the Oracles and Kings of Lucius did. And they even had "The Old Wall" that had 12 giant statues to defend the city. These were animated by the spirit of the king placed in a "coffin". All of that based on lost Solheim technology.
>>3982494>The Gardens were originally "Centra Mobile Shelters"Do you have a single fact to back that up?
>>3982500Just these AI Generated Screenshots.
>>3982503Actually it says the shelter was used to move people. And if you talk to Mr.Monkey (What? You didn't talk to Mr.Monkey?!) He tells you where a Centra city used to be. That said. There are a number of contradictions. Like it says Centra was destroyed only 80 years ago - that is a confirmed typo. Dr.Odine also talked about finding and "servicing" the Lunatic Pandora. Which kind of implies Esthar didn't build it. Although if you read the entry on Tears' Point, it says Esthar DID build the "security box" around the crystal pillar and that this was to keep it away from Tears' Point which is the origin of the Lunar Cry. But it doesn't elaborate on that. And it didn't actually stop it's arrival anyways.
>>3982505FF8 obviously has a lot of loose plot threads and setting details that go nowhere because it had large chunks of its story cut out and the leftovers stitched back together, where we can still see some remnants of the lost picture at the seams
There had to have been a connection between Ellone's powers and Lunar Cry events. As if she emits a frequency that attracts monsters. In a Laguna flashback, he rescues her from Dr. Odine's "Lab 0". They don't mention what it is or why she's there. But in the present, while Lunatic Pandora is flying over Esthar, you can visit Lab 0, and see that some scientists have locked themselves in this chamber. I think they called it a hyperbaric chamber. Like they were anticipating a Lunar Cry, and thought they'd be safe in there. Maybe Lunar Cry events turn people "Akashic". Aether Floods and "Akashic" are from FF16. Basically it's a strong concentration of mist that erodes people consciousness. Maybe there was a similar process in FF8.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nvIMPyPX_XYFF12 also had "mist" and a minor plot point about possession. It appears the Viera race can host Occuria in their bodies. In the Occuria capital, Giruvegan, their appeared to be a circle of giant Viera statues. As if they lived together or perhaps as slaves.
>>3982335>Let's focus on the Lunatic Pandora.>It's a monolithic superweapon. Very different from the "WEAPONS" that appeared on the world map in FF7.>The difference is that the all-caps "WEAPONS" in FF7 are spawned by the planet as a kind of self-defense or immune response.Something to consider that you may be overlooking is that the Luna Cry is a naturally occurring event. This parallels it with the WEAPONS by making it a naturally occurring 'infection'. The Lunatic Pandora exists as a means to open the proverbial box and unleash the terrors of the Luna Cry upon the world. Being able to do so 'early' - before the infection accumulates to that of global calamity - and being able to call it down on a specific location are weaponized benefits. >>3982394>We also never saw the Trabia Capital in FF8, which was apparently going to be a castle.Or maybe we do see it... what we know as Ultimecia's Castle likely existed before her reign.
God I love ff8 so much
>>3982385Xenogears a shit
>>3982714I had a much longer post about the parallels between FF7 and Xenogears. Like, FF7 had the Tiny Broncho, while XG had the Goliath. The Goliath was equipped with "gatekeeper" techWhile FF7 had a little quest with the the Keystone to enter the temple of the ancients. Because Edea was recycled from FF7, I once speculated about what she her role would have been if they kept her in. My guess was that you would have gotten the keystone from her.
>>3982745She might have also appeared in the parade with Rufus. Because why would it be any different?
but FF8 doesn't have planes, because, reasons. If you didn't know, btw, they cut FF7's "Rocket Town" from the Remake Part 2. Cid is just a glorified air cab that takes you from Gongaga to Cosmo Canyon. And then when you get to the part with the Temple of the Ancients, he just waits outside with Vincent, I guess.
"Galdin Quay" was where Noctis was suppose to take a boat over to his wedding. Right off the coast is an island called "Angelgard". It's super frustrating how important that location is to the story, and yet it's dummied out with a mountain of other content.https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wpiHIgutP40
>>3982745Xenogears a shit
>>3982806In Xenogears, the "Gaetia Key" (probably meant to be "Goetia", as in the Goetia demons from the Lesser Key of Solomon)Turns most humans into Wels. I think it turns their nanomachine "limiters" off, so they transform into monsters. We only see it in a cutaway cutscene, so I'm not sure where exactly it's supposed to be. The humans transform, and then the sound/frequency they make triggers another lock. Causing the Mahanon to rise out of the ocean.
>>3982819The Key probably stayed with Emperor Cain. Or the Grazel Ministry who were in the Sol-9000 supercomputer on the Ezekiel (the "fish bowl" ship that wasn't actually named in game)At a stretch, I would say the Ezekiel corresponds with The Galbadia Garden. And if raising the Mahanon was like raising the Pandora from the ocean -- it sorta explains how Seifer was able to do it. They simply always had the key.
>>3982469This is a good point. Chrono Cross also has Terra Tower, raised from the ocean. And Hallow Bastion in Kingdom Hearts was just Radiant Garden that was transfigured by the Witch, Maleficent. And they all have a connection to the moon. Or something that looks like a "moon" at least. Good luck trying to explain the 2nd moon in Chrono Cross.
based schizothreadR=U
>>3983025I think the problem they all have is a lack of narrative merit. I mean, Disc 3 is all spectacle. Adel's Tomb, the lunar cry, The Lunatic Pandora...it was all meaningless. Speaking of "keys". We have to talk about Kingdom Hearts. The Witch Maleficent, was abducting the Princesses to use their pure hearts to open "Kingdom Hearts". The story evolved overtime. So looking back at the very first game, they don't really mention the (χ)-blade. Although Riku/Ansem supposedly has an incomplete version of it here >>3982394He stabs Maleficent, "unlocking/freeing her heart". It's not until KH3 and KHUnionχ that FF8's time travel metaphysics start coming into play. Because a heart without a body can travel through time. It's like Ellone's Power. When Maleficent's heart was freed from her body in KH1 she traveled to her own past. Except she went too far back, before her world existed. She ended up in a "Data" world. Her world was predicted, or prophesied, seen and simulated in the far past, sealing her fate. Escaping the virtual reality and returning to the present (KH2) has got to be the best thing across the entire KH series.
Why doesn't this series have more main villainesses? And why does it focus so much on Cloud and Sephiroth and not on Squall and Ultimecia? Or any other hero-villain pair for the matter. The demakes were a failure.
>>3983301Careful now
>>3983304daily reminder that both Seeds and sorceresses wipe the floor with SOLDIERs
>>3983308>the cards at home
Squall = Zack
>>3983342Zack = Laguna
>>3983344Laguna = Vayne Solidor
>>3983352Vayne = Adagium
>>3983330the hell is this
>>3983366FF7 Rebirth = FF8 Remake.
>>3983378Ok that's going too far. Don't insult FFVIII like that.
>>3983378>>3983379Now to be fair it's pretty obvious time jannies would thematically fit within a FF8 remake and be a plausible reason for amending the timeline. It didn't work for FF7 because there was no precedent set within the existing canon.Clud being schizophrenic as a result of mako poisoning, "mis-remembering" the events of the original game and having the remake be a "true" re-telling would have been far more consistent with what has already been established. Unfortunately this would have been a shit-where-you-eat scenario and the hordes of mentally unwell fans who comprise the bulk of the fanbase would likely end up personally triggered and sinking their own ship.
An inspiration for the Pandora's design might have come from the "project looking-glass" conspiracy/urban legend from Bob Lazar. Supposedly over in Area 51, they had reverse engineered ancient alien technology and created a black box that projects a yellow ring or holographic display, to view parallel timelines. That's something in the FF8's help menu, that there are "Multiple Presents". And Time Compression was used by sorceresses to restore their power, because inheriting it through normal succession gradually diminishes it. And if you have played FF7 Rebirth >>3983378That's kind of the new twist. "Reunion = Time Compression". We see Zack crossing parallel dimensions, And Sephiroth is in all of them doing...something. "The planet" isn't just a planet. But more a Yggdrasil tree that branches out into different possibilities that the Cetra once guided.In FF13, the Fal'cie Orphan exists in a similar state of "always in the future". Eden has this dimensional corridor that relays everything. When the Fal'cie Anima is defeated at the start of FF13 it crystalizes an entire lake. The initial idea for FF13-2 was that Eden's dimensional corridors were still open, crystalized. But we got the "History Crux" instead, connecting points in time.
>>3983445And that's what I think the Crystal Pillar was meant to be in FF8. A crystalized wormhole. But potentially, that means, Laguna passed through it into a parallel timeline.
>>3983308Speaking of card games.The Lunatic Pandora card in Magic the Gathering is kind of B.S.I think it should be able to destroy land cards too. I mean, that's what a Lunar Cry does.
>>3983378Anon did you know there's people who have modded FF7 remakes to use FF8 charactersUltimecia replaces SephirothSquall replaces Cloudetc etcreplaced voice lines too with lines spliced from games like Dissidia, FF Mobius and so on
Why does he do it?
>>3983459To speak faith with conviction and without evidence is a sign of courage unknown to the little man.
>>3983448>And that's what I think the Crystal Pillar was meant to be in FF8. A crystalized wormhole.Looks more like a crystallised fleshy pillar of light to me. A fleshlight if you will.
>>3983486>And then along came Zeus!
>>3983468To have courage one needs to be grounded enough in reality to have doubts.
>>3983490Fun FF15 trivia. Angelgard Island is where Ramuh was supposed to have rested after the war of the Astrals. Before that, it was an ancient execution site. Electrocution, specifically. Hence "Judgement Bolt".Of course they ended up stuffing the adagium in there, who is essentially immortal. So was occupied for a long long time.
>>3982505Tears' Point being a "point of origin" is only in the English version. It's basically a misprint. But sometimes that's how things become canon. It is shaped like bowl, as if it was built in a crater.
>>3983685The Niflheim capital is also built in a crater, but it's not explicitly mentioned anywhere in the game. I don't think. Maybe in the Episode Ardyn DLC. You have to wonder if there are ordinary meteors that can form ordinary craters. Or if the meteor shards are all hazardous "star scourge" material.
The German version says the starscourge came from meteor. That's basically canon at this point.
>>3983691That's like saying Meteor and Jenova were related in FF7. But the game says the ancients NEVER used the black materia. So the "calamity from the sky" and the northern crater must have been something else. Jenova was was "excavated" from a geological strata. But it never says where the excavation was from. I've read fan theories thinking the Ancients just dumped Jenova down a crevasse in Cosmo Canyon or something. A lot of people picture the Northern Crater because that's where the player is when they learn about it. But logistically it doesn't make sense.
Speaking of Cosmo Canyon. I wanted to point out that sometimes ideas shift during the games development or aren't executed like the scenario writers intended. I was talking about the plane Goliath in Xenogears earlier. It was meant to bomb the desert city Aveh. But why did they need a special plane? Concept art shows Aveh was supposed to be underground, in a canyon or giant crack. With strong winds blowing over it.
The Sunken Gelnika in FF7 is a secret dungeon that was supposed to be carrying monsters meant to defeat Sephiroth, except it got shot down by "weapon" - according to Rude. Presumably Emerald Weapon. I always thought it was in a weird place for the story. Because they just found Sephiroth, and woke up the weapons. In Xenogears, there is also the sunken Zeboim Ruins under the sea. It's part of Emeralda's storyline. How the city sank into an airpocket that's conveniently connected to a lighthouse is pretty farfetched as well. It's fairly obvious that Esthar in FF8 was suppose to be The Emerald City from The Wizard of Oz. There's even a "Yellow Brick Road" labeled in the early world map. I'd go even further and say that Esthar was supposed to be underwater. Purely speculating here, but if water can rain down from the moon, then a reverse flow or geyser must be possible too. Like the water disappears, and that's how Esthar is revealed.
>>3983459Obsessing over fictional worlds means not having to engage with the one he's in.
>>3983990The geyser concept isn't that big of a stretch, because they sort of appeared in FF10. They're not actually mentioned in-game. But they're described in developer notes. We see them in FMVs. We see a number of them in the Far Plain in the distance, with a mysterious moon that's not explained. But also at the Scar of the Fayth on Mt. Gagazet. Yuna sees it and just acknowledges it as "a summoning". When Yuna performed a sending, she also walked on water that lifted her up a bit. Waterbending is apparently very easy on spira. There's the Blizball stadiums too. They're just floating balls of water you can jump into, there's not a glass barrier keeping it in that shape.
>>3983999Originally, Yuna's pilgrimage would have been similar to Lunafreya's in FF15. Curing or absorbing the star scourge. Only this plague killed people when they turned 17. Which was one of the project names: SevenTeen Angel Impact x Devil Shock. If we ever get a Final Fantasy 17, I wouldn't mind if they revisited that idea.
>>3983993can't fault that
>>3983990Xenogears a shit
>>3984316I'm sorry, other than possession, Xenogears doesn't have a lot of direct connections to FF8. It's more useful in seeing what is missing. Xenogears had a mountain of world building. FF8 barely names its own cities. Come on, "Deling City"? Naming a city after the current president. That's weird. But I guess it's better than calling it Galbadia. And I suppose Deling isn't around after Disc 1. And they didn't rename it "Edea City" or "Seifer City" or "Ultimecity" lol. Considering you have to navigate waterways, it loosely corresponds to Bledavik, the capital of Aveh, on the Ignas continent.But that was a desert city that get's water from a natural spring under the castle. According to the Ultimania Guide, Deling City is perpetually cloudy. So it's like FF9's Burmecia. Or Kingdom Heart's Dark City in The World that Never Was. Insomnia in FF15 would have likely still been called Insomina the Versus XIII game "that never was".
I think the thing with Stella is that she's like the anti-Tidus. If you can believe what the leaked documents said about Versus XIII. Where Tidus made it his mission to stop Yuna from sacrificing herself. Stella's mission is basically like - no, you have to die. It's your destiny!Rinoa, in FF8, was like "I'm the sorceress now. It's Squall's destiny to kill me." and in a weird way she's ok with that. Because then nobody has to fight. Now, back in the 90s, killing off girlfriends for the sake a male character development was a problematic writing trend. Because the female characters weren't given much agency. But today's writing has leaned too far in the opposite direction with "toxic masculinity". If Squall had become The Sorceress, would Rinoa or any other Female character stop him from sacrificing himself?
>>3984457Let's think about the fact that Tidus and Stella are more or less "dream" characters. Zanarkand was called the city that never sleeps. And Insomnia is literally called Insomnia. Rinoa never really appeared in Squall's dream. It was always related to Ellone. Although, Rinoa and Ultimecia are the only people who were physically "junctioned" onto someone else. Rinoa might not have always been intended to be human or "real". Then again, Rinoa is seen sleeping repeatedly.
>>3985975Rinoa and Noctis appear together in Dissidia NT. As well as Locke from FF16. A common thread between them is maybe, trains?Ace from Type-0 was there too. In that game, memories of the dead are meant to be removed. But for some reason Ace can remember them in his dreams. Also his weapon is cards. We're back to cards again.
>>3985981Honestly Locke's inclusion feels a little out of place. Cyan would have been more appropriate, with the trains and the dreams, and the dogs. Or maybe Shadow and interceptor. Cyan is from Doma. And the Doma in FF14 has Dogs. And Ninjas and Samurai.
>>3985975>Let's think about the fact that Tidus and Stella are more or less "dream" characters. Zanarkand was called the city that never sleeps. And Insomnia is literally called Insomnia.>Rinoa never really appeared in Squall's dream.No she didn't, and for good reason, Laguna and his crew are the dream characters of FF8. Can't belive you overlooked that obvious connection. >Rinoa and Ultimecia are the only people who were physically "junctioned" onto someone else.Something you're overlooking is how junctioning to the physical body and junctioning to the Spirit Within are treated the same. I put it to you that the 'connection' between a Knight and her Sorceress is as much a junction as one has with a Guardian Force.
>>3985991But Rinoa's mother, Julia, is. In the very first dream sequence. Fans have speculated that Rinoa is actually Laguna's daughter from that night at the hotel. Because she's not named "Rinoa Caraway"Potentially meaning Rinoa was his "Sis" all along. We see a young Ellone in the dreamworld. We don't see Ellone in Squall's memories of the orphanage. Of course, it's never explicitly stated that Squall is Raine and Laguna's baby. But if we assume he is, then Rinoa would be older than Squall. There's at least a gap year between the Julia episode and the Winhill episode.
>>3986064Even in the Japanese text, Laguna calls it "Raine's baby". Not "Our baby". No "he/she" pronouns. It would be one thing if he never knew she was pregnant. That would mean his adventure into Esthar, rescuing Ellone, would have been 9 months at least. But in his recap, Ellone goes back to Winhill and then Raine dies. So it's entirely possible Raine started seeing someone else in that time. Even in DissidiaOO, Laguna calls Squall a "Reminder of Raine"
>>3985975Hey anon I've seen that video too. If someone using AI actually manages to make a full, faithful, good cinematic adaptation of FFVIII then fuck yeah god bless AI for existing.
Let's also consider that Watts and Zone were also orphaned by President Deling. He executed their parents. Later they are seen on the White SeeD ship, which Laguna called Ellone's Orphanage. Which might mean Watts and Zone at least have known Ellone for a while. There is an implication that Ellone didn't know Rinoa. But it's entirely possible they arrived at Balamb Garden together. It's weird that right after the dance they have to take a train to Timber, then another train, to meet their client that was just there the night before. What...how...did Rinoa?It's also interesting that Rinoa is sleeping on the train, The Forest Owl's base, when they meet again. In my mind, I suspect they were always meant to be on the same train. Squall and Co. wake up from dreamland, and then he as to wake up "the princess".
>>3982335We have to look at LP as a bridge thematically from ff7 WEAPONS to ff9 Iifa Tree.In all cases, these super kaiju things utilize an aspect of the game to turn it against the players. Mako comes from the planets so they have super weapons that guard the planets, Iifa tree has mist which is the source of the monsters and it connects into Memoria where all memories are from. The gameplay mechanic LP explains as bad which we were ignoring is DRAW. Drawing monsters from the moon is supposed to make you think that drawing is using evil powers which you've been doing all game. Not only that junction is used to junction Rinoa onto Adel and Griever onto Ultimecia. In short LP is explaining that the junction system and the draw system runs on evil and you can't rely on your powers alone to win, thematically you'll need something that makes you better than just the powers you've gathered.
>>3986067If Laguna isn't the father, Kiros and Ward's dialogue suggests they know who the father is. If Laguna never went back to Winhill, I'm sure Kiros and Ward would have escorted Ellone back at the very least. But, this might be an inkling that formulated FF10. As if Ellone, Laguna, Kiros, and Ward are equivalent to Yuna, Braska, Auron, and Jecht. Yuna was left in Bevelle when Braska went on his pilgrimage. She didn't move to Besaid Island until after he defeated Sin.Although Yuna knew "Sir Jecht", she couldn't have been around him long. Maybe passing through Bevelle twice at the start and end of their journey. >>3986082The Memoria connection is interesting. Like maybe the Lunar Cry events have something to do with forgotten memories.
>>3986100It was Kimahri that took Yuna to Bevelle, following Auron's instructions. Obviously FF8 doesn't have any Ronso. But It did have Moombas. Although it's hard to imagine a Moomba taking Ellone away. Unless the moombas we saw were only cubs. Oh my. It's harder to imagine Laguna getting cucked by a moomba named "Leonhart".
>>3986124A Moomba is one possible evolution, or perhaps better to call it a metamorphosis, of the Shumi.Moombas resemble lions closely, which do not exist in the world of FF8 except in the singular instance of Squall's imagination as "Griever"Could Griever have been an advanced or corrupted Moomba? Laguna encountered and befriended Moombas before Squall was born, were his memories of them somehow transferred to Squall where his mind extrapolated their friendship into a fearsome lion creature? Interestingly they are always referred to as the Shumi "Tribe" and not race or creature or people. As if they are not a distinct species themselves, but rather just a community. This is similar to Fisherman's Horizon, which is just a collective of like-minded people instead of a proper formal settlement. Perhaps also a parallel to the orphanage.
Espers in FF6 are the same way. Like the espers in FF4. the Shumi Village is subterranean. So I've speculated that their "metamorphosis" were meant to be the G.F.sFF7 also had the Gi "tribe". The Remake expands on their lore, but not completely. They are ghosts that aren't allowed to be part of the planet's lifestream. I think they were kind of doing the Spirits Within thing. Arriving on a chunk of another planet, or who knows, maybe something like FF9's Terra x Gaia situation. It's confusing, but apparently Red XIII's species are called "Guardians". This isn't confirmed or anything but the Gi Tribe talk about Red's father Seto as a "traitor". My impression is that The Gi Tribe and the Guardians were part of the same planet, or different lifestream. The planet assimilated the Guardians but not the rest of the Gi Tribe. The Lunarians in FF4 also came from a destroyed "red" planet, using their moon as an ark.
>>3986171Naturally, I've formed a lot of theories that FF8's moon was a new arrival. In the Hyne myth found the Ultimania guide, it talks about a time before night and day. Maybe they meant, "before the moon"?FF8's moon is also very large. Possibly not a planet at all, but some kind of binary planet system. The Avatar films on "Pandora" are actually a jungle moon orbiting a gas giant. Similar to the Star Wars system of "Yavin 4". Given the number of Star Wars references in FF in general, I wouldn't be surprised if that's where they got the name "Yevon" from. In the FFX2.5 novel, Yuna visits "the past" but there was some inconsistency with the stars. Like the names were different, but then Yuna had some unspoken realization. Like the North Star or the Brightest Star had a different name, because it wasn't the same star. It's kind of like the cryptic lines in FF7 about the Ancients "promise land" and "vessels". Like the Planet isn't moving in space in a typical orbit.
>>3986068There's a lot of Ai content. Modded content. A mix of AI and Mods. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VHJwXVCh1vcLike they replaced Cloud and Tifa with Squall and Quistis. Quistis has to be a mostly an original model. And Cloud never took glasses off of Tifa.
>>3986171I'm pretty sure the "tribe" stuff is more of localization situation and culturally with the Japanese being as.. ahem... . culturally homogenous as they are, probably something going on there as well with the weird looking people
>>3986082I was watching a video dunking on FF7 Rebirth. But they had a different interpretation of events that I never considered. Tifa is swallowed by a Weapon and watches memories of her childhood. The video suggested that the planet was showing her these memories on purpose. Reminding her who Cloud really is. Influencing her actions later on.
Can you believe FF15 is hitting its 10 year anniversary soon? And that's just marking it's release date; not it's cursed development cycle and the Versus XIII that-never-was.They might have something special planned in November. SPOILER Warning: At the end of FF15 there was 10 year time skip. Noctis was in this crystal spiritual realm "the beyond" absorbing magic. Until he pops back out at Angelgard Island for some reason. The reason being was, alternative cut content, Noctis was meant to be imprisoned on the island for 10 years. Drawing light from the Moon into his ring until the moon turned red. The moon, btw, was always a full moon. Radiating light rather than reflecting the sun, I think, in fantasy world fashion.>>3983454The ring of the Lucii MTG card actually taps land cards at the expense of life points. It's basically an upgraded version of the MTG artifact Sol Ring, that has flavor text implying it stores light from a star.
It makes you think that Solomon's Ring at Tears' Point was meant to do the same thing. Perhaps it was used to summon "draw" individual monsters from the moon to be used as weapons. Of course, the ring is actually used to summon doomtrain. It's Japanese name is Glasya Labolas, after one to the Goetia Demons in the Key of Solomon. It's also a giant enemy in FF3, with a palette swap version called "Guardian". The Fandom wiki says it was meant to be a summon. Likely inflicting "confusion". FF3 was the series debut for the Summoner/Evoker class. Summons had a white or black effect. Aiding the party, or attacking the enemy. "Confusion" would have been the black magic effect. But I'm not sure what the white magic effect would have been
>>3986068>>3985975>Hey anon I've seen that video tooLink?
Speaking of the moon and memories. Square Enix | Tokyo RPG Factory made a game way back in 2018 I think, called Lost Sphear. (Not a typo: "Sphear" not Sphere)Everything in the world was disappearing, turning to mist. The tagline was something like "restore the world with the power of memory" And all the screenshots featured a Bright moon circle thing in the sky. I'm sure it's plot relevant. But it's actually one of the few SE games I haven't played.
>>3986507I'm speed running it now. It's a bit like Kingdom Hearts. Monsters = lost memories. You can restore the memories. But the evil empire has magic ore that can delete memories. The ore came from a Cosmo Canyon type place. But instead of Red XIII, it's a clan of red heads that can talk to monsters. That's about all I know so far. But I'm betting the Moon is like a kingdom hearts thing where all the lost memories end up.
The moon is...
Ok, after playing Lost Sphear's "post game" (There's a fake ending, you load back in after the credits with another 5-8hrs of obnoxious backtracking.) There's another 2 endings to see that'll unlock some important terminology in the help menu. There's still inconsistencies on why and how everything is happening. In general, Gaiterra, the planet, it's main crisis is closer to FF16's blight phenomenon. But at least FF16 explains the cause of the blight as the use and abuse of "magic". In Lost Sphere, the "lost" phenomenon is from memories separating from matter. They don't explain what caused this. It misleads you for most of the game, pointing to the moon. But at the end it clarifies that the moon system was created by a civilization on the brink of destruction to archive their memory in order to recreate a better civilization. So the world goes through these cycles of creation and destruction. If civilization gets too "war-like" the moon supposedly just lets the lost phenomenon erase everything and start over. Which is B.S. because there are points in the game where it is too targeted to be a coincidence.
>>3987652As a consequence of these "rebirth" cycles, different civilizations evolved. But they all end up hijacking the moon system and destroying themselves. Or, the moon tries to commit suicide. Civilization is looking good, so it gives them the equivalent of uranium and hopes they use it to destroy the system but not themselves. First there's a civilization of "sorcerers". Then the "plated" civilization, which created magitek armor that for some reason memory and matter doesn't separate. But they all get erased, leaving the new civilization with an incomplete understanding of the relics they left behind.
>>3987665Eventually there's a cyborg or "vorg" uprising that sees humans and the moon as a threat. Actually, I think this is a missing plot thread. Where the Plated Civilizations must have created an AI that took over the robots in the next generation. There is this floating temple, Dhaka Venu, with a special field that can control magitek armor. But they skip over how the bad guy found it and made it his lair.
I'm investigating the Japanese text for things that might have been lost in translation. The flying fortress "Dhaka Venu" should just be "Dark Venus"I think it's a riff on Chrono Trigger's "Dark Omen". Its appearance was a sign, tricking the moon system into perceiving a chaotic civilization that needs to be wiped out. It's not really stated, but eliminating the threat would disarm the Eschatron 9000, if you know what I mean.That's basically Bahamut's role in the later FF series, to wipe out humanity with Zetta Flare.
Bahamut Fury in Crisis Core used "ExaFlare" https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_rORbU_sBRAhttps://www.youtube.com/watch?v=07WVo9m4dKM
>>3987722Interesting. The Japanese entry says "Dark Venus" created the moon, or rather, the components of the "Spritnite Orb". And once it completed that task it has just been floating around aimlessly. "Obaro" is probably a play on "Overlord". Because he was the King of the Plated People who created the armor mechs. The English version just called everything "Vulcosuits". But in Japanese there is a distinction between the Ancient magiteck armor that the Plated People created and the Modern Mechs. The magiteck armor had "wills" that harmonized with the user. Obaro used his suit to enhance his human magic. But it's implied that the majority of his people didn't want to be human anymore. Although it's hard to say in what sense of "human". Maybe they got "Vulco-" from Star Trek's Vulcans who suppress emotions and feelings.
>>3988220Coincidently, Planet Vulcan "has no moon". Not in the canon of the original TV series at least. In the opening of Lost Sphear, a monologue talks about the moon being cold and logical. So I wouldn't be surprised if the "Plated People" were supposed to be the creators of the moon. Reflecting their "cold logic".Although everything else in the game suggests they were a generation after the moon was constructed. Surely Obaro would know more about the moon otherwise. Although it is odd that Dark Venus, which was used to construct the moon, would also have an effect at controlling machines created by later generations.
>>3988269Ironically, Spock from Star Trek is a Vulcan. He's played by Leonard Nimoy, who was also the voice of Master Xehanort in KH:Birth By Sleep and KH: Dream Drop Distance. And the Kingdom Hearts moon is essentially a memory archive, which he wanted to access to recreate his lost world.
Here's some other scifi trivia: Dr. Who moon lore. The moon is actually a giant egg, that hatches in 2049. It also has these bacteria monster "microbes" on the surface. There was an advanced race of reptiles on earth before humans, before the moon. But as the moon appeared, caught in Earth's orbit, they thought it was a rogue planet that was going to crash into them. They went underground into stasis pods.The Dr. Who-verse is loosely tied to Star Trek with crossover comic book events. Star Trek also has dino-aliens that they believed evolved on earth. But ironically, the dinosaur culture has forgotten it's own history and doesn't like theories of evolution. While the moon doesn't erase memories, there is a race called The Silence that you forget the moment you look away from them. They manipulated humanity to create technology for them, even reverse engineering their own time machine. The broadcast for the moonlanding was used to defeat them with a hypnotic suggestionOf course, FF8 couldn't have taken inspiration from these episode since they were mostly produced afterwards. But they have the same story elements, a lot of it comes from 1960s history and common storytelling tropes.
>>3991268The Silence fall into another interesting science fiction trope called anti-memes. Where viral memes are things that you remember, perhaps unwillingly, like an annoying song, anti-memes are the things that are overlooked and escape you. This in itself is a literary feat, I'm not sure a video game narrative could perform. The closest might be in KH2 when the Nobodies steal a photograph in a simulated Twilight town. But they don't just steal the photo, they steal the word "photo".FFType-0 also has memory erasure. But we simply watch characters forget. Or reflect on what they must know to be true. The narrative doesn't omit, neglect, or drop scenes as soon as _____ enters the room.
>>3992203In FF8, GF related memory loss is rationalized because the GF occupies the summoner's mind. The memories can still be recalled however. In other games, the summons are created from memories of the planet, that's why in FF9, Eidolons were supposed to change appearances with the local myths. In Type-0, summoning eidolons came at the cost of the summoner(s)' life for the majority of people outside of Class 0. If we thought of summon creatures as memetic entites. Then a fatal summoning would be an antimemes. Since the act of calling them ensures you can't recall them. (Because you'll be dead).In FFX, the aeons manifest through the same pyerflies that react to memories, which are used to creates sphere recordings, and "Beckonings" of dead people in the Far Plane. In FF7, Materia is crystalized spheres of knowledge. Summon Materia in particular were lifeforms from the planet's past when it was overflowing with spiritual energy. In a cutscene, before you get the Bahamut Materia in the temple of the ancients after fighting a red dragon, Sephiroth had a dummied out speech about who the planet really belongs to. Because there have been extinction level events in the past.Jenova, who is described as wearing the faces of the dead, is another kind of memetic entity. Manipulating your memories. Possibly creating new memories, or just extracting and editing existing ones. Personally, I don't think the series has given us hard answers. I'm willing to accept the in-game scientific hypothesis on what she is and why Sephiroth snapped.
>>3986368https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Eq_c_qKgb-w
>>3992461andhttps://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DwpW8UWGnGcHe's adapting the full game, part 3 is scheduled for 12/06.
>>3992462This one is kind of bad. >Zell's perpetual grin. >Seifer's smoker complexion makes him look twice his age. >Too many scenery shots eating up time.
>>3992516I love the scenery shots. And personally I think Seifer looks damn fine especially 2:29-2:36
To be fair, AI is kind of obligated to portray lanky high school students as 30yos with beard stubble and super model physiques.
>>3992543just like a real hollywood production
>>3982335giant of babil mentioned! what a great game
FF8 didn't have a "dark" element. Instead it had a "poison" element. I never really noticed how the Holy/Poison GFs were both machines. Alexander is a giant mecha. Doomtrain (aka Glasya Labolas) is a train. Naturally, Glasya Labolas is obtain through Solomon's Ring, because it is a goetia demon in the Key of Solomon. But it's weird it's a train on Esthar, when all the train tracks are on Galbadia instead. Unless you count the "Sea side station" just before the salt lake, or salt flats, which coincidently is where you fight the undead boss Abaddon. With Edea in your party. You're supposed to draw Alexander from Edea in the 2nd Battle with her. However, if you miss it, it's strange Edea doesn't already have it junctioned when she joins your party on disc 3. Does that mean Alexander came from Ultimecia in the future? Or perhaps from the JME (Junction Machine Ellone) that Dr.Odine created.
>>3993659It would make more sense for the JME to be connected to Doomtrain because I think most of the "dreamland" trips happen near stations or on a train itself. However Alexander makes sense as an ability to connect or bridge souls. In some games it's conflated with "Big Bridge"I don't want to spoil Lost Sphear for anyone, but there is an odd detail of androids with mind reading abilities that can also send people into memories. The world of Lost Sphear also has a Salt Flat, which later become a portal to a world of lost memories. Ironically it's not on the Island Continent of Salinas, the name meaning "salty" - although I'd be willing to bet they intended it to be there and only moved it for story/gameplay logistic reasons. In the English version it was renamed "Salsy". But the party member form there is literally a monster made from memories.
