>Make people work themselves to the bone or start a new town where people don't work themselves as hardPlease tell me the choices get more nuanced than this. Please?
>>3982477I'm almost done with the quest and the other side seems somewhat more reasonable I suppose. Games is Outer Worlds by the by.
lmao, that's the most nuanced the game gets. It's only downhill from there.
>>3982487Damnnn, really? That sucks. I really was hoping for a New Vegas lite kind of storytelling.
>>3982488The studio that made New Vegas is long dead.
>>3982489I understand that. Not many other games to go to, though. Cyberpunk is a movie game that has lots of different gameplay mechanics, it's not an RPG shooter 24/7 unlike Fallout 3. What I love about Bethesda types is that you're always in control gameplay-wise and you knew what to expect. There were no Bioshock-style 'connect the pipes' minigames in Oblivion. I hate that in first person open world games.
>>3982495>There were no Bioshock-style 'connect the pipes' minigames in OblivionYEAH IMAGINE IF THERE WERE A GOOFY MINI-GAME IN OBLIVION
>>3982497You have to do that a total of like 3 times among all the main questlines and even then you can skip them with charm potions and spells.>Well in Bioshock you can skip the pipe sections by hacking-I'm talking about open world games, and even still, at least Bioshock is consistent with its features and plays as a shooter with light imsim elements rather than a carnival with a new temporarily gameplay-altering trick up its sleeve every few steps like the Skywalker Saga or something.
>>3982497I'm still not entirely sure how that minigame works because I just created a charm spell or bribed them as soon as I was able.
>>3982497Don't forget the ass lockpicking.
>>3982520>ass lockpickingYou never wondered how you kept a single lockpick when you were arrested and jailed?
>>3982522Nah, I used to play D&D with a jailbird DM. Fully aware of the "prison pocket".
Hippie grandma is evil and refuses to let the Edgewater refugees into her commune, so they all starve to death. So yes, it is in fact pretty nuanced.
>>3982514The size of the wedge is how significant the impact will be, whether positive or negative. The facial expression of the NPC when you're hovering over a quadrant tells you whether they like it or hate it. The goal, then, is to spend your biggest wedge on something they like, and your smallest wedge on something they hate.Let's say Urbul there hates it when you Boast. You can tell because he's snarling when you hover over it. You also know he kind of likes it when you Admire him. You can tell because he's smiling when you hover over it, but not as much as the intense grin he's giving you when you hover over Joke.And one final twist, each time you spend a wedge, the wheel of wedges rotates, and it always rotates in the same direction.So you just plan which order you spend your wedges, because you now know which quadrants he likes and which ones he hates.Once you figure it out, you can't fail these interactions, though there's a perk that helps if you fuck up by letting you spin the wheel of wedges an extra step before you spend one.
>>3982477The natural consequences of making an "anti-capitalist" game where Marxism-Leninism is conveniently ignored and the only alternatives are hippy communes, limp dicked social democracy and anarchism. This is also true of other games that feign to criticise capitalism such as Cyberpunk 2077, where almost everyone you meet despises the ultra-capitalist dystopia they live in but the best solution anyone has been able to muster is Keanu Reeves blowing up skyscraper for shits and giggles. Over time, the full blown neocon propaganda we used to see in Call of Duty and Tom Clancy games has been phased out and replaced with this insidious liberal nonsense.
>>3983373Marxism is a fools ideology as well. Any ideology that talks about "material conditions" and then doesn't want to position itself as Luddite is myopic. A system is an expression of the tools available and people don't put down tools.
>>3983377It's great that you took some time away from building bombs in your log cabin to extol the virtues of anarcho-primitivism on the internet.
>>3983380No, I'm against anarcho-primitivism. Note:>people don't put down toolsMy point is just the contradiction in Marxism, the workers owning the factory are still enslaved to the factory. Large scale civilization is the problem, too much production is the problem. But, will humans ever desire to scale down, regardless of economic system? Doubt.Failed species.
>>3983373>>3983377>>3983383You put it into words I'm too retarded to use but you basically hit the nail on the head. What do you think about the way New Vegas treats these topics?
>>3983383After a certain point, I'd sooner take a misguided, short-sighted, or even questionably thought out alternative over shrugging and going "guess we're fucked lol"
>>3983709Yeah, which is exactly why we are fucked. Your instinct is that of a primitive person where if the tribe sat still and didn't pick "some" direction, everyone was fucked. Made complete sense in that setting and it's what we evolved towards. Now, we exist in such a complex set of systems comprised of billions of people interacting that the old ways of dealing with problems are instead deadly, because randomly chosen directions spin out new issues and compound on each other. Especially those directions which are derived from poorly thought out moral concerns, like the cessation of suffering.If only people weren't scared of maintaining a sense of confusion.
>>3983177>both sides are retarded>nuanced
>>3982489Actually, it's not.Check the credits, most of the people are still there. They even got Tim Cain back. You'd think that would've been their saving grace, but no.The only important figure that left the team is Chris Avellone, and it should be clear by now that it was he who fucking carried Obsidian.
>>3983737And yet, you still present no viable alternative. Bemoaning the state of things and how deeply rooted the core issues are may make you feel smart and/or superior, but it sure doesn't seem like it'd solve anything.Hell, it doesn't even sound like it'd solve anything if everyone agreed with you.
>>3983883>And yetPlease don't be this way.Solve what? You can't even describe a part of the web of problems without latching onto a dead man's model.You are asking for surety in confusion because humanity is a gambling species that evolved in a survival situation and know finds itself in complexity outside our ability to comprehend it. This is why you latched onto ideology, to resolve this confusion and give yourself a false sense of "the state of things", so what happens is you use that model of a model and pretend it's the territory you exist within and work backwards to explain reality using it.>may make you feel smart and/or superiorThis is an incredibly pathetic response, anon. I absolutely don't care about this. That you think I do is really showing the primitive social response.My advice is reduce the scale, this advice will not be followed because resolving confusion with risk is our biological answer to the chaos of reality, a short term small scale solution perfectly aligned with the circumstances we evolved in, but one that doesn't work in a large scale civilization where the techniques of efficiency without purpose reign.
>>3982514Big wedge equal more pointsNpcs choose 2 things they don't like and 2 things they do like Try and put small wedges on the things they don't like so you lose less points and big wedges on things they like Its really retarded because imagine someone runs up to you and proceeds in 10 mins every nano second spamming a joke, praising you, shit talking you, or whatever and at the end you go "that guy was alright"
>>3982477the only real choice is to kill literally everyone you meet.
>>3983746Tim Kain is a pretentious redditor larping(actual meaning) as a good writer. Also he's a faggot with aids.
>>3983997>a pretentious redditor larping(actual meaning) as a good writer.No wonder the RPG Codex loves him >Also he's a faggot with aids.No wonder the RPG Codex loves him
>>3983901I have no horse in the ideological race but, you know, acting condescending isn't the best way to convince others you don't care about feeling superior to them.
>>3984186See, caring about form rather than ideas just doesn't interest me. No one can convince another of their intent when the other has a vested interest in doubting them.My advice to you is to realize that you can't placate people's inferiority complexes, the reason I talk about these things is I see them in myself, I'm a human as well. It's not about domination, but that is indeed something the primitive part of our brain obsesses over. But, nothing I said is about lording it over anyone, it's just a perspective that is based on first principles and holding confusion for a long time.
>>3984192I'll be honest with you, I fundamentally disagree with the perspective that the form is irrelevant. If the goal is the exchange of information and ideas, then to actively choose to take an approach that limits the reach of your ideas puts that motivation somewhat into question. (Or at least, it serves as a reminder why people with outdated, unhelpful or indeed actively harmful ideas that present them 'well' remain the guiding forces while those concerned purely with the realm of ideas and not their presentation can only bemoan the refusal of others to heed their words. There is value in... palatability, even if to many - not necessarily you, mind, I don't know you - it seems to demean the purity of the ideas themselves somehow.)I mean, I fully agree with the folly of trying to convince someone with a preemptive bias, but if you end up speaking 'at' someone, and do not care whether they listen or receive anything from it, aren't you just wasting both your and their time? And besides, I'd wonder what's the point of your response to them at all, if you've already judged them as having dug their heels in.
>>3984199The way I see it, I'm not just speaking to another person when communicating online. I'm speaking to anyone who reads it. By filtering my words through politesse or trying to "convert" people then I'm really undermining my own intention, which is to state what I think regardless if it finds fertile ground or not, radical honesty. Otherwise you get a slow mimetic shift in your own conceptions, as you try to "match" other people. But, for sure, I"m not patting myself on the back about anything I say, or at least not without self-awareness. Part of what makes me able to think these things is that I grew up a person prone to doubting myself and I often felt confused by what other people seemed to take as a matter of course. I truly believe holding confusion is a very useful thing to do, but I don't expect everyone to do it.
>>3982477It's gets worse, the game is shallow political propoganda.>>3983383Large groups of people can't own things. Even small groups of people struggle to share items. Large groups of people simply cannot organize themselves. They organize under one man's command. Any political system that fails to account for basic facts about human nature is inherently flawed.You say "Large scale civilization is the problem" as though there was some ideal scale. Humans won't ever want to "Scale down" because they don't want to be stabbed to death by the spears of illiterate tribesman. No creature that has ever walked, or crawled wishes to be "scaled down" even the lowest scuttling slithering singular cellular organism endeavors to continue it's existence. Your issue is not just with man, but with life itself. You should seek consoling for your despair. .
>>3984207You're kinda repeating what I said. The issue I'm talking about is that "one man's command" is no longer viable or how the world works. The people in charge are enslaved to the techniques and systems that allow them to stay in charge and they really have no direction or ability to manage this ever growing machine. This scale is beyond the mind of any human being and all atomization and ennui and ideology are symptomatic. Obviously to "scale down" universally would require a monolithic power that would be even more complex, defeating the purpose. This is more about observation than solution. What's funny is that ancient people understood some of these principles first hand and created the Tower of Babel story.I'm not afraid to die, that is what life is, finite. To me this is just a case of looking at reality, I don't want to be an ostrich. I prefer to look at the iceberg.
>>3982477Just play alpha protocol it’s a far better game
>>3983745That's the way of the world, just look at political parties.
>Outer Worlds ThreadOh boy I'm exicted I have many fair criticisms of the first game I'd like to discuss>Looks inside>Two spergs arguing incoherently about society and politics
>>3984563>Outer Worlds ThreadYou might be the first anon to mention what game this is even about. I had no idea
>>3984225That's utter nonsense. We organize these systems around this universal law. We appoint CEOs when no one man owns the venture, we appoint Presidents, and Prime ministers who wield near total power, then lavishly reward them to turn it over, and cruely punish anyone who even proposes damaging that fragile institution, and shudder in fear at the potential that a man would decide to continue his command beyond his allotted term. Everyone from the lowest park ranger trying to corall Yogi bear serves at the pleasure of the President of the United States. If they so desire they could remove every single one of them upon coming into office, and they used to. These days they settle for going two levels deep, and giving their individual commandants, and directors instructions to humiliate, and crush dissenters. You're just being a big fat liar pretending you're willing to jump in the meat grinder for some abstract notion of societal betterment. If you were genuine this belief you must be completely incompetent. Men have to carefully maintain these systems, and techniques. No one man is ever intended to manage every single aspect of every man's life. That's why we break these things down into CFOs, and line managers. The head chief doesn't have to worry about the waiters out front, they've got their own boss. You are so small minded that you can't get out of your head for a moment. We're here arguing about the nature of man on a board dedicated to men creating novel problems for other men to solve, for fun. Humans are not docile, content creatures. We build giant stone walls, and awake at night thinking someone might crawl under them. Man lives to do complicated tasks. We don't have to be coerced by some system we built accidentally, we did it on purpose to keep everyone busy. If man's got nothing to do he makes trouble for himself simply to gain the task of playing with the law.
>>3984563Be the change you wish to see in the world.Please.Save us.
Since Sperg 1 and Sperg 2 aren't adding anything about the game or actual games at all I'll provide something for the thread.>inb4 reddit corps are bad writingThe corporation is bad while a tired trope can be done well if the corporation is shown to be either ruthlessruthlessly efficient or competent and the Board is shown to be neither in OW. The board has the ability and knowledge to stop the food shortage but simply doesn't? I was really hoping that the subversion would be that the Boards drastic way of doing things would be the only way and if you took the more altruistic route it would end up helping more people but everyone in the system would take a huge hit to their QoL.
>>3984650Yeah it's hilariously lazy writing. I didn't even need them to have a good reason, but I expected A reason, you know? I mean, a reason that any of them earnestly believed rather than blatantly feeding you bullshit to cover destructive self-interest.
>>3984563Not just two. But you really shouldn't insult yourself by proclaiming incoherence, just say it doesn't interest you.Game sucks, by the way, not even worth discussing.>>3984629The hand conforms to the tool, just as the tool conforms to the hand. It's a feedback loop.You want to know what the dissolution of will is in a culture that doesn't value dynasty or put any principle above the nature of man? It's knowing that something is possible and effective in the short term.The reality is that you want to feel like someone is in charge, not that we're riding the bull.>You're just being a big fat liar pretending you're willing to jump in the meat grinder for some abstract notion of societal bettermentI cannot grasp how you think I'm saying this, I can only imagine that you're confused because you can't place me in your adopted worldview.
>>3984674>I'm not incoherent you are retarded>btw here's more of me talking like a failed philosophy professor If you want to make a point just make it sperg. Brevity is the soul of wit and you spergs sound insufferable
>>3984676I'm using plain language as much as possible, no academic jargon at all. Not instantly following a thought that took me a long time to build within myself doesn't make you are retard, it makes you impatient. Which is worse.
