I never liked RPGs. I always liked linear games that told me "go there, do this, you'll be a hero". The games designed around the idea that you reload in case of failure and all quests have one outcome, maybe if you're lucky you get a special failure dialogue.Then I heard about Baldur's Gate 3 and I thought>you know, I have to give it a chance. everyone praises the game as god's own masterpiece, let's check it out what all the hype is aboutNaturally, I started my adventure by creating an ugly character with a silly name - thank god there are still games that allow you to name your character funny words - and off I went. I stumbled upon my first real fight, saved, and spent the next hour trying to win it by reloading every five minutes.A few hours later I understood though that save scumming really takes joy out of the game, so I tried to allow myself to just... save less. To give an example, there was a sick girl that I wanted to, kek, save. The problem was, I thought about checking a nearby cabinet for a potential cure, to which she reacted>GUAAAAAAAAAAAAARDSand some beta orbiter came over thinking I was a thief and at that point I didn't know how to escape the battle so I had to kill him, and since she was a witness to my murder and I didn't want to risk anything, I had to kill her too>Wyll disapproveswell fuck Wyll, I'll buy him candy or whatever and it'll be fine. The whole thing was hilarious, and I wouldn't have experienced it had I saved and reloaded so that I could do the quest "correctly".The problem is, while I've learned how to just roll with small failures, it's very unclear to me how to avoid save scumming before big battles. Like, I know a big battle is about to start. Of course I go to camp to heal everyone, which also generates a save point. So then I go fight, I die, I reload. Rinse and repeat.What's the correct approach here?
>>3986482Don't play gay games
>>3986482You have to be 18 to post here
>>3986482>Like, I know a big battle is about to start. Of course I go to camp to heal everyone, which also generates a save point. So then I go fight, I die, I reload. Rinse and repeat.>What's the correct approach here?That's just called game mechanics. Almost every RPG has the ability to save before bosses/big fights. When you die you reload the game and try again. Some games even add a retry button to boss fights to skip that step. You aren't save scumming in that instance. You're just playing the game retard.
>>3986482You are supposed to save before big battles. As long as you arent save scumming lock picking or something like that you are fine. Also you can play the game however you want so just play however you think is most fun
>>3986482The average game is not designed for this. Play roguelikes or other games designed to fail forward if you care.
>>3986482Maybe you should do something elseVideo games might be too stimulating for someone like you
>>3986482just play on honor mode, it's the only fun way to play
You should hit rock bottom by doing this in a baby RPG like Far Cry or a Mario and Luigi game.
>>3986482dying in a fight is not save scummingsaving before a big encounter is also not save scumming
>>3986482Games should just not heavily reward save scumming. Stop pretending this is P&P. If the game isn't designed to be (can fairly be) ironmanned, it shouldn't rely so much on the idea of thar the player can't reset.Fallout: New Vegas did it right by not having skill checks be passed via percentage chance. Still they should have had more ambiguous skill requirements.
>>3986744Far Cry is an RPG?
>>3986879Far Cry is an RPG as much as Dragon Quest is. Same with GTA. It's not surprising that the most generic with-combat CRPGs end up being GTA in world-form and do Far Cry style upgrades.
>>3986482you shouldn't be dying so often, are you just bad at the game?
>>3986548BG3 in particular is a baby game. You shouldn't need to reload anything. Even on honour it's just learning what the gimmick is and often just killing the boss before you have to worry about the gimmick.
>>3986482>How do I stop save scumming?Just don't do it. Simple as..
>>3986482I still haven't completely stopped save scumming yet as well, but really don't need to be a bitch about it like this.It's just a GAME.
>>3986482You should only play TES because save scumming is canon there and you won't feel bad
This is why games should have features that disable saving in some way. Or games should bring the checkpoint system back. For everyone else, save the game only on exit and try to play the game in intervals of at least one major quest or activity.
>>3986482Play traditional roguelikes (ADOM or TOME4 are the more conventional RPG-likes), that'll teach you the joy of living with (or dying due to) the consequences of your actions and will put some hair in your chest.Another alternative is playing tacticool RPGs in ironman mode, JA2 or Battle Brothers are good ones for this.
>>3986482Unironically if you believe in an absolute morality (that comes from God) and that your actions in any context are a true reflection of your character, being committed to a principle like "not savescumming" becomes less about videogames and more about maintaining a proper relationship between you and the world.If you do not believe in such a true reality, then I suspect you will forever keep savescumming like an addict drunk on their illusion of control.
>>3986482>I never liked RPGsThen why are you buying and playing rpgs?
save scumming is basically the only way to play any game that has a save load feature. it's a rite of passage.
BG3 is clearly designed with savescumming in mind. There's even a meme DC99 check at the end of the game with an achievement for passing it, because the retards homebrewed critical success/failure on skill checks, so you always have a completely random 5% chance to pass it for no reason.
>>3986482>How do I stop save scumming?Technically, I've "stopped" myself from save-scumming by reading all the possible outcomes in the wikis (for other games not including BG3).I mean if you know what's going to happen, then you can just choose the outcome you want and don't need to load anything. If it's chance-based however, it'll depend on whether it's my 1st playthrough or not. If I've seen it before, then I don't want to keep doing the same playthrough over and over.
>>3992265>homebrewed critical success/failureis this real? i've noticed something about rolling a 1 or 20 seems fucked in this game
>>3997234Yes, so you always have a chance to fail things you shouldn’t be able to fail, and a chance to pass things you shouldn’t be able to succeed.They also homebrewed perception checks to roll a d20 (your chance to just notice shit as you walk around is supposed to be “passive perception” which is just take 10 + your modifiers)And they made initiative rolls be a d4 instead of a d20 for some reason, which makes modifiers to initiative much more powerful
>>3986482>I started my adventure by creating an ugly character with a silly name - thank god there are still games that allow you to name your character funny wordsWhat was the name?
>>3987555He is bad.
>>3997239could be worse, at least the dcs aren't absoltuely insane like owlcat gamesidk what a dc 50+ perception check is supposed to represent but its some bullshit that they put checks like that in a game where you aren't allowed to retry
>>4001507>at least the dcs aren't absoltuely insane There is a meme DC 99 check in late BG3.>like owlcat games. idk what a dc 50+ perception check is supposed to represent but its some bullshit that they put checks like that in a game where you aren't allowed to retryAgreed. Dumb bloat.
>>3986536>just play however you think is most funtoo based for /vrpg/ (or any of the vidya boards, unfortunately)
>>3986482>What's the correct approach here?Play on honour mode, or, if it's too difficult, play custom difficulty with honour mode limitation. Pay attention to what you're doing. You can't win all rolls, and you won't get everything you want. Sooner or later a streak of low rolls will fuck up what you intend to do, and you're left trying to salvage a bad outcome. That is what makes the game fun IMO. And don't worry about fucking things up. That's just part of it. I once wanted a bit better armour, so I tried to have Astarion steal the magic breastplate outside the Tiefling smith. But someone spotted him, and we couldn't talk ourselves out of. Battle happened, people died, and in the end I abandoned trying to save the tieflings and allied with the goblins instead. Fun times. I have also: accidentally murdered gnomes, fucked up saving important NPCs, and did not know Karlach was a playable character in my first playthrough because Wyll wanted to kill her and I thought that seemed reasonable, so she died.
>>4002573>did not know Karlach was a playable character in my first playthrough because Wyll wanted to kill her and I thought that seemed reasonable, so she died.I killed Wyll and then killed Karlach because it's what a lawful good paladin would do.
>>4002968Can be. My wife played a ranger in her first playthrough so as soon as Astarion turned out to be a vampire, she staked him.
>>3986490This.
>>4002968>I killed WyllYou metagamed. You don't learn that he is a warlock until after you kill karlach.
>>4004591>You metagamed. You don't learn that he is a warlock until after you kill karlach.Paladins can physically sense the evil of those in their presence. Despite being just 12.5% of the available origins, Wyll commits more than 50% of soul-selling to gain infernal power. I killed the fake paladins after killing Karlach, too.
>>4004597>Paladins can physically sense the evilIn that case you would have sensed that karlach isn't evil.sense evil like the classic D&D, would have karlach ping as chaotic good despite being a tiefling (even in AD&D back in the 80s tieflings were only "mostly evil" meaning they could be good).You metagamed.
save scumming is a symptom of a game not making failure interesting
>>4004600the imbalance between rewards and failure
>>3986482you dont, these games are not really designed for roleplaying they are designed for save scumming and buildautism.the only games that are not designed for savescumming are roguelikes go play those
>>4004598>NOOOOO YOU CAN'T JUST GO AROUND SMITING OGRES IN CIRCUS TENTS WHO ARE CLEARLY ABOUT TO EAT CHILDREN, OR HECKIN' WHOLESOME CHUNGUS TIEFLINGS WHO REEK OF THE BLOOD WAR AND SERVE FIENDSCope.
>>3986482>Save scummingin rng based gamesYou dont enjoy rng aspect of it, however fucked it is, like in x-com, its a fudnamental part of gameplay. I savescummed but I know its just bad and I dont enjoy geting 6 misses on 96% shoot in a row.>savescumming in rpgIts mandatory in most rpgs nowadays, where there are incopsioucious lines of dialog which lead into somehing strange or vile that have a little to do with said line of dilog (ex. Gay fucking, murdering/maiming someone, doing some action which wasnt mentioned in choosed line of dialog). Nowaday rpg writers fucntions like a that guy gm that constantly tries to fuck you up and steer you into some bad shit, just because he cannot hook you into adventure/plotline that he wants to railroad you in. Its like some element plots have this "gocha bitch" moments that you want to reload, just because you got trapped into some option by non descriptive dialog.
Play some games like XCOM that are built to be played ironman so you take losses you can take in strideNowadays I only savescum major stuff in RPGs like decisions that play out differently than written, or when some interaction majorly fucks me over (invisible witness turns an entire faction against you for stealing an apple or something stupid like that), but I've stopped savescumming for lockpicking or other stuff that'll just be some minor setback/resource loss
>>4004591You do if you talk to Gale. He will mention that Wyll is a warlock, long before you meet Karlach.
>>4004600This. No game should require precognition in order to avoid failing. Unless perhaps if it's a game whose premise is the cycle of death and rebirth.
>>4004884>You do if you talk to Gale. He will mention that Wyll is a warlock, long before you meet Karlach.My character in this reply chain is would’ve killed Gale before killing Wyll, except the DM gives you a game over if you do that, so instead I metagamed that fact and simply never talked to Gale. Anon’s point here stands.
>>4004598You metagamed.Because people in the setting are *extremely* aware that there are so... so ... SO many ways to fool Detect Evil abilities, and those methods are employed just as a matter of routine by anyone with any business outside the Underdark, specifically because of how common paladins are. Which is why paladins in the setting seldom bother relying on their detect evil ability, instead judging others based on more reliable methods. Like whether the person they're talking to is a demon with a fucking bomb inside them who is traipsing about covered in blood and fire still smoking with the stench of the Blood War...
>>4002968You mean a Warhammer player. Your interpretation of "paladin" is not universal, it's just your subjective opinion. No one else is obliged to validate you.But for the record, Karlach is an insufferable reddit Mary Sue, so I killed her within seconds of hearing her speak. I have ZERO fucking tolerance for that heckin-dommy-muscle-mommy horseSHIT.Wyll is fine, though. He's naive and stupid, but he's a nice guy and he works hard. He's the best friend in the camp, even better than Halsin in some ways. I kill Lae'zel usually, because she can't learn to mind her manners. Do not fucking talk to me like that, you stupid frog bitch, I have zero reason to tolerate it, and you're a noseless fuggo alien so you're already skating on thin ice. The attitude is just a hard no. Shart made it some of the way through one run, but I kill her instantly in the Nautilus in the tutorial these days. Just fucking NO. No, dude. No.Larian has no fucking clue what makes characters interesting or fun to be around. I am not your fucking therapist, Astarion. I do not fucking care. What can your mosquito ass do for me?! Because I fucking murder mosquitos for less.
>>3986482In computer RPGs, you must win battles. This is the win condition. You must succeed the dice rolls. Therefore, you have no choice beside save scumming. The failure part of RPGs is not included.You might want to try tabletop RPGs.
>>4004991>You mean a Warhammer player. Your interpretation of "paladin" is not universal, it's just your subjective opinionStrongly disagree. Paladins were always intended to be a very strictly played class with inflexible requirements. Only until the subversive rot of 5th ed did this change. “Yeah well who can even say what objective ‘good’ is, anyway? From the perspective of warlocks and fiends, you are the evil one! And who needs divine powers anyway? That’s so outdated. Just, like, believe in stuff, dude. Smite evil? More like smite anything! And clerics don’t even need to believe in a God…”>Wyll is fine, though. He's naive and stupid, but he's a nice guy and he works hard. He's the best friend in the campThe post-EA rewrites fucked up Wyll the worst. Before he was a total charlatan, a fraud, who willingly sold his soul for power so that he could LARP like a hero, but it was all a front. Now, he’s a warlock who sold his soul for power (but he totally tragically had to! He dindu nuffin, it’s society’s fault) but also he’s a totally noble and honest upright bro. Fucking stupid. The other companions even say he’s “the best of us”. What a joke.>Shart made it some of the way through one run, but I kill her instantly in the Nautilus in the tutorial these days.Does the game even let you kill her on the Nautiloid? I know you can kill her on the beach in act 1. I tried to kill Lae’Zel on the Nautiloid and it wouldn’t let me, annoying.
>>4005024>plays a game based on DND 5e>complains that the game won't interpret Paladins like DND 2.0>bellyaches about a single character (YOUR character, talking to Karlach) saying Wyll is "the best of us">Gale thinks he's a moron for listening to a Devil>Lae'zel calls him a Benevolent Burden>Minthara mocks his life choicesGo and actually play the game.
Killing Shart on the Nautiloid does nothing. She still turns up on the Beach as if nothing happened.
