1. Diablo
2. Diablo 2
3. Grim Dawn

Nioh 2, even with shitty itemization

For old uncs like me it's

Dungeon Siege 2
Sacred 2
Diablo 2

Runner ups
Nix
Sacred 1
poe

Titan Quest and it's not even close.

Every arpg is the exact same slot machine game and d2 has the best slot machine so thats the best one. Thats it

>>3991156
Ruiner

>>3991156
Nox is the best one. It makes Diablo 1 more dynamic and fun to play, instead of copying Diablo 2 and making you grind loot from bosses for 1000 hours while spamming a single button.
But Titan Quest is my comfort game, it's incredibly pleasing aesthetically. The new DLCs published by Nordic actually somewhat ruin the experience by being painfully mediocre to terrible, especially Ragnarok, because it can't be skipped and bloats every playthrough.

>>3992128
Isn't Grim Dawn just TQ but better

>>3992279
What's wrong with Ragnarok? Besides being too long and the voice acting.

>>3992163
Not an rpg

>>3992284
It is

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Don't know if it can be considered definite but I think it's pretty underrated. I think it was made by some Diablo 1 devs and it pretty much feels like Diablo 1.5 with a party.

>>3991156
1. Diablo 2
2. Grim Dawn
3. Torchlight 2 (modded)
4. POE 1. First run through is a great experience.
5. Titan Quest

I had the most fun playing D3 with my buddies so Im going to say D3

>>3993520
Grim YAWN

1. Grim Dawn
2. Grim Dawn: Reign of Terror (Diablo 1 and 2) mod

ARPG fans are crazy, you need to invest 1000 hours to "appreciate the systems"

I wish GD had more qol features

>>3991156
I realized I have never played these kind of ARPGs. Do Diablo games have local couch co-op?

>>3993692
brother what do you mean these "kind" of ARPGs?

No Rest For The Wicked is the best new ARPG and that's final.

To this day Diablo 2 (and to a lesser extent 3), and Wrath of the Righteous feel like the only games that give me what I want in a Necromancer class. Yes, I want the fucking army of skeletons to drown the enemy in, what about it?

>>3995482
PoE, Grim Dawn, and Last Epoch let you do it too.

Diablo 2 Might scare everyone but sounds cool

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>>3992284
>>3992715
It's mostly better but Titan Quest does a few things better than Grim Dawn.
While you can prefer one setting over the other, it's undeniable Titan Quest has more different locales and a varied, vibrant color palette.

Bosses are much better in Titan Quest than in Grim Dawn. They tend to have actual mechanics you have to play around instead of feeling like an elite mook, something that haunts older entries in this genre. That said sometimes they can fold like paper if you're overlevelled.

Masteries in GD tend to be more self-sufficient and versatile while in TQ they're more distinct and narrow in what they're good at, lending themselves to a stronger identity.
You also get more points overall, meaning that any class combination that includes any particular mastery is more likely to level the same good skills and thus play more similarly to other classes that use said mastery.
Could argue as this being bad for build diversity but the game isn't lacking in that aspect and I much prefer not having the FOMO of playing the exact same mastery combination but speccing into different skills because you simply don't get enough to enjoy more than a handful. And even then you can build the same class a multitude of ways.

I've been replaying Titan Quest recently and it seems to have about a 1/4 the number of enemies as Grim Dawn. I find I'm actually having to engage the enemies one-on-one rather than run around using huge AoE abilities to clear the screen.
Levelling is also a lot slower and there feels like much more walking. So in that sense, it's more of a game whereas Grim Dawn is a loot treadmill, where you run into crowd, pop a screenwipe, then pick up the loot.

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>>3991156
>It can't still be Diablo 2, right?
anon, I...

>>3996654
GD definitely has varied locales, though. Deserts, boreal forests and mountains, urban and destroyed urban, dense swamp forests, dark stone labyrinths, alternative dimensions even intestines.
And besides, even if you still believe TQ has more varied environments (which, we already established, it does not), that still doesn't matter compared to whether those environments actually fit the story and the setting where it takes place. Which GD's does. TQ's does not.

And even after all that, you know there's a super popular and robust mod that adds all the TQ classes / masteries to GD, so it's not like you're giving up anything.

>>3993520
PoE2 is better than PoE1, just for the record. It's still in early access, so they've got a ways to go to really fill out the content, but it's got a better basis than PoE1 started with (some of us do remember those days).

>>3991502
I'm gonna be real with you, I do miss DS2 in some ways. I loved the nature spells and the feeling of adventuring with a group / team. And the ults were really fucking fun. And searching for secret buttons and levers on every wall and in every nook...

I just find grim dawn so fucking boring, I don't know what it is

>>3996958
Ok. Maybe go think about that a bit and then come back when you have something interesting or meaningful to say.

>>3993692
It was radically innovative and popular because it could be played with friends over the internet instead of needing to be on the same couch, anon.

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Grim Dawn

>>3996962
D1 was the first game I played on the internet. Good times. The cheating was insane, people would use a trainer to cast spells in town and cast firewall where players joined so you’d be dead before even loading in

>>3992128
Are there other classes in TQ aside from melee types?
If not, then Grim Dawn and D2 obviously leads when it comes to playing as ranged/magic types.

>>3992128
tpbp
based
/thread

Couldn't imagine insulting a game I enjoy by describing it as "based".

>>3991156
Diablo 2 MXL

In the past there have been a few good ones, already posted ITT, but nothing really ever dethroned D2. The latest and greatest evolutions are probably Grim Dawn and Path of Exile, depending on which divergent direction is more to your liking.

>>3997294
Grim Dawn stood out more for me than PoE. I also don't like free to play games because there is always a catch. I haven't tried PoE 2 so I can't say anything about it.

Titan Quest 2 is in EA still and I think that will parallel Grim Dawn in quality despite mixed reviews because everybody bitches about something and there are no doubt shills and fans that make the review space unreliable.

The new Diablo II Resurrected with Warlock is really good. The developers actually listened to people and fixed the stash system. They added a new character. They added more end game content. I actually genuinely appreciate Blizzard for this and they bought back my business.

So to answer the threads original question:

Diablo II Resurrected
Grim Dawn (new HUGE expansion coming soon)
Titan Quest 2
Path of Exile 1/2

We're eating good guys. Just put out the positive vibes about these games and don't shit on them too hard. People work on their art and think they are making a good product, so it crushes people's spirits when you just spam vitriol about stuff instead of giving constructive criticism. Source: I used to spew a lot of venom and vitriol and saw the results. :(

>>3997071
Yeah dude just look them up. There are so many combinations to mess with. I don't recall them offhand but they exist. Titan Quest 2 is in Early Access and will be polished off by August I believe. I still haven't tried it myself, though I bought it to support the devs. I might dip in this summer to help them sculpt out the rest of their product, 'cause I tend to have a keen eye for things that are wrong and I think my critique will help guide them.

Check out TQ2, the original is good but it is VERY dated. There are a lot of QoL things lacking and that will turn many away. I still like it but know this going in so you aren't disappointed.

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>>3993564
>you need to invest 1000 hours to "appreciate the systems"
For the most part you would go to their website and look at their unique weapons catalog and dream of grabbing that one day while you continue grinding with your Blue level magic gear.

If your's autistic, you would then engage the grind for 1000 hours.

>>3996949
I find the aesthetic and theme of Grim Dawn inconsolably unappealing.

>>3997594
NTA, I liked it at first but I can see how the grimdark setting gets a bit boring. I really liked TQs varied setting of classical mythologies, plus it felt brighter and warmer than GD in general. Shame it's so dated compared to GD, even the TQ mod in GD felt pretty lackluster.

Diablo 4

>>4001268
-1/10 bait. Have some fucking pride in your trolling, anon.

>>3992279
Id kill for an arpg that handled spells with the mouse moving ur characters direction it was perfect. Nox was so great we lost a real og when Westwood died

>>4001439
>Id kill for an arpg that handled spells with the mouse moving ur characters direction it was perfect.
NTA but what are you saying here? How do you want spells to work?

>>4001444
He wants Arx Fatalis casting, clearly

>>4001447
black and white or nothin

man playing the d2 remake after grim dawn is just not the same. tq/gd now definitive arpg

>>3991156
Any word on the new dlcs for d2r?

>>4001493
i can't get into either, the worlds feel lame and boring
titan quest was alright when it came out but now? eh. no interest in playing that.

>>4001493
TQ is no D2
GD makes TQ obsolete

I got Sur rune today

>>4001493
d2 is a demake

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>>3991156
>definitive ARPG?
Desu Sex 1: Wuhan Conspiracy.

>>4003068
You’re using a different definition of ARPG than he is. You are using the older and broader meaning of “action RPG”, while the subgenre of Diablo-clones has now come to also be called “ARPG” despite being a subset of “action RPGs”

>>4003078
>Diablo-clones has now come to also be called “ARPG” despite being a subset of “action RPGs”

im too old for this zoomer revisionist poop.

>>4003113
"ARPG" vs "Diablo-clone" happened like 15-20 years ago, fellow grandpa

>>3991156
D2 before LoD and its patch, of course.
LoD had brought an official support of the "endgame" grind, LoD 1.10 had turned the game into mindless ADHD retardation with "streamlining" trees thus removing last incentives to think if you want to level some skills and why.
Also LoD had been designed without 2 out of 3 visionares and without half of the original team, so artstyle looks off (and quite boring compared to the original game). And the composer had entered his experimental phase with orchestra, so soundtrack sounds off too.
The true continuation of the original Diablo 2 are Torchlight 1 and 2.

>>4003158
>LoD had brought an official support of the "endgame"
It was surreal to me to go through D1 Battle.net with the cow level being a proto-meme urban legend, to actually being in D2. Then in vanilla D2 everyone would just run the cow level to farm XP 24/7, not playing the actual game, just a joke level. Even as a kid it felt wrong to me. Then when LoD came out everyone just ran Baal to farm XP. Sigh

>>4003304
ARPGs are about farming

>>4003535
They weren’t until Diablo 2.

>>4003535
>about farming
that's modern RPGs. or rather modern RPGs with online play and MMOs.

>>4003572
D1 is really more of a dungeon crawler, a precursor to what ARPG has meant for almost 30 years. Oldheads can rave and gnash their teeth about how RPGs should go back to Ultima VI of whatever all they want

>>4003304
>everyone
You're mistaking the retards who play online who are highly visible with representing the norm.

>>4003603
yeah and what's your robust source for "the norm"?

>>3992716
I'll have to check this out. I can't get into any of the Diablos other than one because (to quote >>3992279), the gameplay is usually >grind loot from bosses for 1000 hours while spamming a single button
I like the first Diablo because it has a more horror kind of feel, where you're basically trying to test yourself to see how far down in the labyrinth you can get before you have to retreat back to the village rather than just left-clicking to destroy everything effortless.

>>4003622
this is because you prefer dungeon crawlers over ARPGs

Aren't they all completely identical? Spam your AOE as you blitz through floors ignoring everything that isn't the highest rated gear.
I like Diablo 1. Nice and simple.

>4003581
you're still in here crying? go back to preddit already jeebus
we get it, you want (((you)))s

I opened Diablo 2 Resurrected for the first time in months and all my characters even new level 1s run at super speed. Was there some update to make everyone sprint?

>>4003653
sounds like a bug

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>>4003603
>You're mistaking the retards who play online who are highly visible with representing the norm.
The vast majority of Diablo 2 players played on the realms. Some people did play exclusively single-player (or LAN play with their single player characters), and some people did play on open battle.net (mostly people who want to cheat more easily), but absolutely most people played on closed battle.net.
>D1 is really more of a dungeon crawler, a precursor to what ARPG has meant for almost 30 years
Nah, the term "ARPG" in the sense of "Diablo clone" didn't really take off until maybe 15 years ago. "Diablo clone" was far more popular for many years.

>>4003590
U6 is turnbased, you moronos. not the same.

>>4003653
stop playing bad remakes.

>>4003659
so i was right? and the shitposters are all zoomers who are 15 years old?

>>4003665
I heard it was a good remake though

>>4003667
no >>4001889

>>4003659
>Nah, the term "ARPG" in the sense of "Diablo clone" didn't really take off until maybe 15 years ago. "Diablo clone" was far more popular for many years.
yeah and people used the term "Doom Clone" to describe FPS for a while, but they're still FPS games

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>>4003676
>yeah and people used the term "Doom Clone" to describe FPS for a while
Correct.
>but they're still FPS games
The anon I was replying to stated that the term "ARPG" had been used to describe Diablo clones for nearly 30 years, which is anachronistic and false, much like if you had said "we've been calling Doom clones 'first person shooters' for nearly 35 years"

>>4003682
You are discussing word history, I am discussing concept history. Words and concepts have independent careers, the ARPG concept existed prior to its word.

>>4003685
>You are discussing word history, I am discussing concept history. Words and concepts have independent careers, the ARPG concept existed prior to its word.
There's two different usages of the term 'ARPG'. One, the original usage of 'action RPG', and two, the later term 'ARPG' (also meaning 'action RPG' but always abbreviated and never spelled out) to mean specifically the subgenre of Diablo clones, which is the context in which the term is used in this thread, and also this reply chain.

>>4003688
thanks chat GPT

>>4003693
>thanks chat GPT
Dumb cope. I'm clearly talking to a couple of ignorant zoomers who weren't there.
>[Diablo is] a precursor to what ARPG has meant for almost 30 years
is an objectively false statement, since 30 years ago no one was using 'ARPG' in that sense. More like half that amount of time.
Just take the fucking L and move on with your day.

>>4003694
I'll be extra clear to avoid confusion

[Diablo] is a precursor to what ARPG [ARPG as in to mean specifically the subgenre of Diablo clones, which is the context in which the term is used in this thread, and also this reply chain] has meant for almost 30 years.

You are discussing word history, I am discussing concept history. Diablo has defined what ARPG [ARPG as in to mean specifically the subgenre of Diablo clones, which is the context in which the term is used in this thread, and also this reply chain] has meant for almost 30 years

>>4003703
>Diablo has defined what ARPG has meant
Agreed. "ARPG" in this context essentially has the same meaning as "Diablo-clone".
>for almost 30 years
Here is the portion of the statement I disagree with. The term was not used for "almost 30 years". It didn't become popular until 10-15 years ago or so. You could say something like "Diablo has defined what we would today call the ARPG genre" and that would be correct, but it is false to say that it, at that time, defined a term that would not be used until many years later.

So basically, you're nitpicking over nothing

>>4003716
>So basically, you're nitpicking over nothing
Buddy, you (?) made the objectively false statement and then quadrupled down on it. Not my fault you decided to shoot autism beams from a factually indefensible position. Hell, there's a non-zero chance I'm talking to anon(s) who haven't actually played Diablo or Diablo 2 and just watched "video essays" about it or some shit.
I haven't even brought up how all modern ARPGs are really cloning the formula from Diablo 2 and not Diablo

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Can someone explain to me like to a complete retard what is the point when you have too much mf? I have bit over 400 as fire lock and im nuking everything from orbit, mainly just running cows now since i need runes but no luck. Got this today tho so might go barb now if i can find some Lo runes. Never had that chest drop so i got pretty excited

>>4003951
>Can someone explain to me like to a complete retard what is the point when you have too much mf?
Diminishing returns. When it hampers your ability to quickly and efficiently farm whatever you're trying to farm. If you double your MF% but then it takes you four times as long to kill something, it's a net loss of efficiency.

>>4003954
Well, best gear available to me comes with magic find in it. Horrible luck with runes so far so no GG gear yet. Gonna use that just to farm cows anyway. I guess I try to get one Lo rune so I have more options for the barb. Thanks for answering

>>4003659
nobody fucking called a game a “diablo clone”, the spike in 2004 was when the boss “diablo clone” was implemented in D2.
Yes Blizzard was a cultural icon back then, not some irrelevant woke shithole kept going by pajeetasoft life support money. So literally the entire internet cared about additions to their favourite games.
Spikes in mentions are at D3 launch and d2r launch. When killing Diablo clone, or comparing bosses in D3 to him became relevant again.
Whoever made that graph is intentionally lying about something that makes no sense, for no identifiable reason. So I guess it makes sense for it to be posted on 4chinz…

>>4004325
Not only did people do it, they did it so much Larian got mad about it re: Divine Divinity.

>>4004325
>>4004328
woosh? the point is diablo-clone != ARPG.

are you all chatbots?

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>>3991156
>Now that the dust has settled, what is the definitive ARPG?
brogue, but you have to force yourself to play fast

>>4004325
>nobody fucking called a game a “diablo clone”
Yes, they did. Diablo and Diablo 2 were very successful and inspired a number of clones of their gameplay formula, in the same way that Doom’s popularity inspired a number of “Doom clones”, both of which were terms in common use for some years following their release.
>the spike in 2004 was when the boss “diablo clone” was implemented in D2.
>Whoever made that graph is intentionally lying about something that makes no sense, for no identifiable reason.
2004 is as far back as that Google data went. The purpose of that image was to show the relative preponderance of the two terms over time, specifically that “Diablo clone” was the older and original more popular term for quite a few years, before the later term “ARPG” took over at some inflection point of popularity, which continues to this day.

>>4004325
>nobody fucking called a game a “diablo clone”
Here's a handful of references for you. It's difficult to source contemporaneous review quotes nowadays since so many have been pulled off the web nowadays, or have broken links, but this is about as far as I care to go to educate you:
>Depths of Peril does exactly what you want from a Diablo clone
https://www.gamesradar.com/depths-of-peril-review/
>TORCHLIGHT REVIEW: NOT JUST A DIABLO CLONE
https://eip.gg/reviews/torchlight-review-not-just-another-diablo-ii-clone/
>Darkstone, a PC role-playing game and a Diablo clone of the first order
https://www.gamespot.com/articles/darkstone-preview/1100-2619905/
>After the remarkable commercial success of Blizzard’s Diablo, it’s surprising that it has taken three years for the predictable wave of similar games to arrive. Perhaps even more surprising is that, unlike the slew of real-time strategy clones that followed Warcraft II and Command & Conquer, most of the Diablo clones have actually proven to be quality games, and Westwood’s Nox certainly continues that trend
https://www.gamespot.com/reviews/nox-review/1900-2543964/
>Diablo II clone? Not quite, but that's alright!
>The game was often referred to as a Diablo clone, which may be true somewhat, if you compare the general mechanics (hack'n'slash style with a few crumbs of RPG thrown in)
https://gamefaqs.gamespot.com/pc/913876-throne-of-darkness/reviews/73945
>Because of its confusing story, unappealing graphics, and counter-intuitive controls, Konung ends up looking like a Diablo clone that hit the shelves four years too late.
>Even the graphics in Konung are plain at best and very outdated at worst. Four years ago, players may have come away from the game thinking it was a decent-looking Diablo clone–but now it simply looks old and tired
https://www.gamespot.com/reviews/legend-of-the-north-konung-review/1900-2681219/

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>>3991156
Drakensang Online in 2012 :(

>>4004413
>>4004425
Links to gaming ”journalists”.
Absolutely nobody except their ad revenue bots ever visited ign/gamespot et al.
I rest my case.
I rest my case

>>4005232
At this point I can only assume that you are being willfully obtuse out of embarrassment after making such a stupid claim.
“Diablo clone” was a common term in wide use to describe that subgenre of games for quite a few years and anyone who was actually on the internet and playing games at that time can confirm this, you’ve been provided with a time series of usage over time for as far back as it will go and multiple links to contemporaneous sources using that term, and all you have in response is “nuh uh” and “that doesn’t count”. You can’t “rest your case” without actually presenting a case first, dude.

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I did my first diablo 2 playthrough with no guides or anything and I didn't die until Duriel (went right back in and took him out)

>>4005296
i always get bored, die, lose all my gear and then stop playing for weeks. d2 is basically just an attention test. once u space out, u die.

>>4005232
You are new to 4chan, 14-25 years old, and are always correct in every argument and discussion you partake in? What a surprise!

1) Neverwinter Nights: A Dance with Rogues
2) Divinity II: The Dragon Knight Saga
3) Drakan: The Ancients' Gates
4) Hunted: The Demon's Forge
5) Neverend

>>4005296
Lagging out on Blizzard’s shitty servers on your 56k modem and having Duriel kill you before you even see the inside of his room is quintessential D2

Does Diablo 3 even have a reason to exist anymore?

>>4005501
>Does Diablo 3 even have a reason to exist anymore?
Poorfags who don’t have phones or something

>>4005501
D4 sucks. And many zoomers got filtered by D2´s graphics.

>Now that the dust has settled
has there ever been a single fucking thread that opened up that way that had any value

>>4005716
>Well, /[board]/? Explain yourselves.

>>4005711
D4 is now better than D3 with the latest updates

>>3991156
1) Titan Quest
2) Torchlight 1
3) Diablo 4

anything other than this you're coping

>>4005864
>3) Diablo 4
>>>/vmg/shill

>>4005864
3/10 bait, ok at first but blew it at the end

Diablo 1 and 2 are the only ARPGs I can enjoy because the zoomie speedy bullshit got taken to 11 after D2.
D2 in Hell endgame is already ridiculous with FRW on all players and enemies.
I liked that Diablo 1 ended at Diablo, it would have been nice if these games continued in a more rogue/ironman direction instead of softcore reddit fags running Baal four thousand times on a weekend.
Lord of Destruction was fun and I played the hell out of it but hindsight is 20/20 and I find it's got some awful ideas. Who thought it was a good idea to have the titular antagonist be the penultimate boss?

>>4007305
that's not what titular means

>>4007305
>Who thought it was a good idea to have the titular antagonist be the penultimate boss?
wot? would you prefer an random insane clown posse to be the final boss?

>>4008109
I think they mean they just expected Diablo to be the final boss in a Diablo game.

I thought it was a little weird myself that you're supposed to be confronting Baal, but then he's actually gone and the boss Duriel is someone who was never really mentioned before. The original release of D2 felt a little rushed and unfinished and I later wondered if they did that to leave the game on a bit of a cliffhanger for the later expansion they had already planned.

>>3991496
>>3991502
You fucking niggers need to learn the difference between
>ARPG
>Action, RPG
>Action-RPG
ARPG isnt a fucking umbrella term you stupid fucks

>>4008134
It’s always been a dumb and ambiguous term. “Diablo clone” is superior nomenclature.

Diablo 1 is superior because it was a buzzer beater before the implementation or at least the perfection of addicting loops and micro transaction cuckoldry.
I know they had pitched that stupid upgrade disk idea back then and it really speaks to the state of the industry at the time that penny pinching execs told them it was gay and retarded.
Now ARPG games just ship you a heroin needle in the mail so you can immerse yourself while the game takes over and clears the dungeons for you.

>>4009230
For that reason, I don’t even consider Diablo to really be an ARPG in the modern sense of the term, since they’re all aping Diablo 2’s formula.

>>4009230
>hmm, a thread about ARPGs
>a perfect opportunity to let people know I don't like ARPGs
ok

>>4009230
>>4009232
Diablo 2 pre-LoD almost felt a bit more like D1 in some ways compared to after LoD. It was a bit slower, basic magic items were more viable, less item clutter. The lack of mana potions for sale was strange but mostly tolerable once you got used to it. It has some balance problems but I enjoyed it as someone who still played D1 a lot even after D2 released.

>>4009244
>if you don't like everything then you can't like anything
brainlet

>>3991156
>It can't still be Diablo 2, right?
how would it not be, no game ever replaced it, it's all been shitty clones with a worse graphical style.
Dark Alliance remains 2nd best.

>>4009390
>how would it not be, no game ever replaced it, it's all been shitty clones with a worse graphical style.
PoE thoughever

>>4009330
>basic magic items were more viable
What does this even mean, and why is it a positive

>>4009405
Before LoD the game was balanced around blue magic items being used more since there were less uniques and no runewords, and rare items were actually rare drops. It made it so you didn't have to spend so much time dealing with items and the game was balanced around not having the best gear.

It just felt more like D1 where you could simply play the game and get gear without really having to focus on it so much, and quest items actually mattered. After LoD it felt like you were more likely to get roadblocked by difficulty and have to grind and farm to progress instead of just playing. Some of it had to do with synergies being added too but LoD made it so you could and sometimes had to spend so much more time dealing with items and grinding which I know some people enjoy but not everyone does.

>>4009414
Based rememberer. I preferred the old style of itemization before the introduction of several tiers naturally making lower tiers into junk.
In D1 you only had white(normal), blue(magic) and gold(unique). The uniques had interesting quirks about them, often came with negatives as well.
So the ideal was to find magic items with good rolls, but in a pinch white items were perfectly acceptable because you'd only be short a modifier.
This would never fly in a Diablo like now where the player expects normal, magic, rare, sets, uniques, crafts/runewords and probably more that I haven't kept up with.
I've got to go back and play vanilla D2 again, I never knew how good we had it back then.

>>4009414
It's very doable to beat D2 with little to no farming on normal difficulty

>>4009426
>the introduction of several tiers naturally making lower tiers into junk.
Yeah that's been a common issue in MMOs too. I get bored with them once they start doing that because it feels like it's just leading to a never ending grind.

>The uniques had interesting quirks about them,
Getting the butcher's cleaver and undead crown for a warrior was neat even though they had low durability and armor. Some of the unique armor and jewelry you get a little later could last until end game for every character.

Last time I played D2 I got a unique chest piece that froze enemies on hit and ended up being really useful but I don't think I remember too many things in D2 having negative effects like in D1. It did feel like D1 was more of a roguelike in that regard and D2 started becoming kind of a lite MMO.

>>4009427
Yeah normal wasn't changed much, maybe it was even a little easier in some ways which actually made the difficulty too low. But Nightmare and especially Hell had their difficulty ramped up so much to account for synergies and runewords, people still complain about that today. So unfortunately the difficulty goes from being too easy on normal compared to pre-LoD to too difficult on higher difficulties unless you want to spend tons of time grinding and farming. Seems like you also needed some advanced knowledge of what characters were viable now too since monster immunities were increased after LoD in higher difficulties.

LoD almost feels like a mod by someone who played D2 a lot and wanted to push things for an ultra maxed out character even more but it ended up overwriting what was a decent earlier game experience in some ways.

>>4009405
Bonus effects on items have different tier ranges of values. Magic items can have higher tier bonuses than rare items so a magic crown can have +2 to all skills while a rare can only have +1.
All of this is extremely well documented and always has been so there is no excuse for every game since to fuck it up.

>>4009493
LoD and the later patches were made for the bot and trade autist community to the detriment of the comfy gamer because Blizzard is greedy
hence the korean brainrot torture tier drop rates

>>4011692
>kekekeke ^__________^ u giv soj

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>>3991156
I can't get into D4 no matter how hard I try. I usually get into an ARPG within an hour or two of playing but with this I feel nothing.

>>4012724
Did you not learn your lesson with 3?

>>4011692
There are a decent number of mods for solo play that increase drop rates. I tried them and it helps cut down on grinding for higher difficulties especially but I actually get tired of how much stuff drops all the time lol. Is there anything like D2 that just has less focus on loot? And maybe slightly better boss fights?

Sacred 2
Titan Quest
Silverfall

I just love eurojank

>>4008134
>Diablo Clones
>Shit like Deus Ex
>Shit like Zelda or Beyond Oasis
Is this correct?

>>4015547
Correct on the first point, but the second two points are bait

>>4015585
Not bait, just trying to get it right. Deus Ex is an action game (as in a shooter) with RPG elements like skill trees and decision making, isn't it? And no I haven't played it. That or maybe Demon's Souls or Dragon's Dogma. Action games with RPG elements, so "Action, RPG"... Haven't played those either but you get the gist
And Zelda and Beyond Oasis may be bad exemples, but then let's say the Mana series as "Action-RPGs". Real time action gameplay but mainly a regular JRPG structure.

>>4015656
>Not bait
>And no I haven't played it
>Haven't played those either but you get the gist
>may be bad exemples

>>4015661
Yeah I don't play RPGs at all but I decided to browse this board because I like dungeon crawlers and Diablo. JRPGs and story bullshit is barely vidya imo. Just read a book or watch a movie and play some arcade games or something focused on gameplay and a few good mechanics well put together. That's why I'm not baiting, just trying to figure out the subgenres of this loser ass genre that is RPGs.

>>4015666
>trips of el diablo
Btw, I wasn't saying your answers of Deus Ex and Zelda and Beyond Oasis were bait, I was saying the preceding post ("Action, RPG" and "Action-RPG") was bait.
Then, I just thought your post of "haven't played that... uh yeah, haven't played that either" was funny.

>>4015668
Well my bad then, I shouldn't have been so hostile for so little (considering the 666 trips and everything). I don't even agree with myself, to be honest. RPG video games can offer great world building and immersion, so it can be an interesting way to tell a story.
But what about the preceding post doesn't make sense to you? Because it did to me...
>"Action, RPG"
As in an action game with RPG elements. Like saying Evil Dead is a "Horror, Comedy" movie.
>Action-RPG
Overall RPG structure, but "action gameplay" (as in real time combat, I guess). Like Secret of Mana...
But then, is River City Ransom and Dragon's Crown just beat 'em ups? Should we call them something different from Double Dragon or Streets of Rage? If not, why should we do it for RPGs? What I'm trying to say is that it is kind of really arbitrary and doesn't really matter (still asking for your opinion though).

>>4015672
Because "Action, RPG" and "Action-RPG" are ambiguous headcanon terms that no one but that anon has ever used, ever, and there exist no meaningful distinction or workable definitions for them. Hence bait.
"Action RPG" already means an RPG that involves some amount of player skill in combat, (i.e. not purely turn-based, executing commands from a menu, and resolving actions solely by player statistics). It's a broad descriptor and not really a subgenre per se.
"ARPG" means the subenre of Diablo clones, as you pointed out, though confusingly it also stands for "action RPG" although it is always used abbreviated and never spelled out in that context.

>>4015677
But games like Mana, Ys or Terranigma (traditional JRPGs but action combat) are very different from Dark Souls or The Witcher (action games with strong RPG elements), right? So "Action RPGs" as an umbrella term doesn't do much. Like ARPGs are Diablo clones. Rougelikes are games like Dungeon Crawl Stone Soup. Panel de Pon and Columns are match-three puzzle games and Tetris and Puyo-Puyo are falling block puzzles, but they are all "action puzzle games", aren't they?

>>4015681
>So "Action RPGs" as an umbrella term doesn't do much
Yup, it's a dumb term. Like I said, it's a broad descriptor, and not a specific subgenre. But "Action, RPG" and "Action-RPG" are even dumber and less useful descriptors. Like to use your example, what is the difference between a "Horror, Comedy" and a "Horror-Comedy"?

>>4015694
"Horror, Comedy" imples a movie that fits both genres, and since horror comes first I'd think it's a horror movie "first". Like Evil Dead, that is horror but with well timed jokes and subtle comedy (first movie). In "Horror-Comedy", "horror" is qualifying "comedy" as a noun modifier or an adjective, so it would imply something like Scary Movie or Scooby-Doo. That is only my interpretation and english isn't my native language, so maybe I'm just mistaken. In portuguese this logic makes sense, but it may not apply to english (and english is the language that generally dictates vidya genres nomenclature right).

Grim Dawn is definitely the most boring ARPG I've ever played and I'm pretty sure the reason is due to it having theoretically interesting classes that in reality have some of the most boring, barebones skill trees known to man. Even multiclassing or whatever it was didn't save it, and most of the skills having the visuals and impact of a wet towel is the insult on top of injury.

The loot also severely suffers from (launch) Diablo 3 syndrome.

>>4015864
I couldn't get into Grim Dawn. I liked Victor Vran more, but it tried to hard to be funny sometimes and the voice in your head got annoying along with it feeling like there was some content bloat. But the actual gameplay of Victor Vran otherwise was decent and I mostly liked how it handled building your character and the itemization.

is D4 worth getting into today?
I know they added some new mechs, do you need the new xpac to have those changes?