1. Diablo
2. Diablo 2
3. Grim Dawn

Nioh 2, even with shitty itemization

For old uncs like me it's

Dungeon Siege 2
Sacred 2
Diablo 2

Runner ups
Nix
Sacred 1
poe

Titan Quest and it's not even close.

Every arpg is the exact same slot machine game and d2 has the best slot machine so thats the best one. Thats it

>>3991156
Ruiner

>>3991156
Nox is the best one. It makes Diablo 1 more dynamic and fun to play, instead of copying Diablo 2 and making you grind loot from bosses for 1000 hours while spamming a single button.
But Titan Quest is my comfort game, it's incredibly pleasing aesthetically. The new DLCs published by Nordic actually somewhat ruin the experience by being painfully mediocre to terrible, especially Ragnarok, because it can't be skipped and bloats every playthrough.

>>3992128
Isn't Grim Dawn just TQ but better

>>3992279
What's wrong with Ragnarok? Besides being too long and the voice acting.

>>3992163
Not an rpg

>>3992284
It is

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Don't know if it can be considered definite but I think it's pretty underrated. I think it was made by some Diablo 1 devs and it pretty much feels like Diablo 1.5 with a party.

>>3991156
1. Diablo 2
2. Grim Dawn
3. Torchlight 2 (modded)
4. POE 1. First run through is a great experience.
5. Titan Quest

I had the most fun playing D3 with my buddies so Im going to say D3

>>3993520
Grim YAWN

1. Grim Dawn
2. Grim Dawn: Reign of Terror (Diablo 1 and 2) mod

ARPG fans are crazy, you need to invest 1000 hours to "appreciate the systems"

I wish GD had more qol features

>>3991156
I realized I have never played these kind of ARPGs. Do Diablo games have local couch co-op?

>>3993692
brother what do you mean these "kind" of ARPGs?

No Rest For The Wicked is the best new ARPG and that's final.

To this day Diablo 2 (and to a lesser extent 3), and Wrath of the Righteous feel like the only games that give me what I want in a Necromancer class. Yes, I want the fucking army of skeletons to drown the enemy in, what about it?

>>3995482
PoE, Grim Dawn, and Last Epoch let you do it too.

Diablo 2 Might scare everyone but sounds cool

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>>3992284
>>3992715
It's mostly better but Titan Quest does a few things better than Grim Dawn.
While you can prefer one setting over the other, it's undeniable Titan Quest has more different locales and a varied, vibrant color palette.

Bosses are much better in Titan Quest than in Grim Dawn. They tend to have actual mechanics you have to play around instead of feeling like an elite mook, something that haunts older entries in this genre. That said sometimes they can fold like paper if you're overlevelled.

Masteries in GD tend to be more self-sufficient and versatile while in TQ they're more distinct and narrow in what they're good at, lending themselves to a stronger identity.
You also get more points overall, meaning that any class combination that includes any particular mastery is more likely to level the same good skills and thus play more similarly to other classes that use said mastery.
Could argue as this being bad for build diversity but the game isn't lacking in that aspect and I much prefer not having the FOMO of playing the exact same mastery combination but speccing into different skills because you simply don't get enough to enjoy more than a handful. And even then you can build the same class a multitude of ways.

I've been replaying Titan Quest recently and it seems to have about a 1/4 the number of enemies as Grim Dawn. I find I'm actually having to engage the enemies one-on-one rather than run around using huge AoE abilities to clear the screen.
Levelling is also a lot slower and there feels like much more walking. So in that sense, it's more of a game whereas Grim Dawn is a loot treadmill, where you run into crowd, pop a screenwipe, then pick up the loot.

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>>3991156
>It can't still be Diablo 2, right?
anon, I...

>>3996654
GD definitely has varied locales, though. Deserts, boreal forests and mountains, urban and destroyed urban, dense swamp forests, dark stone labyrinths, alternative dimensions even intestines.
And besides, even if you still believe TQ has more varied environments (which, we already established, it does not), that still doesn't matter compared to whether those environments actually fit the story and the setting where it takes place. Which GD's does. TQ's does not.

And even after all that, you know there's a super popular and robust mod that adds all the TQ classes / masteries to GD, so it's not like you're giving up anything.

>>3993520
PoE2 is better than PoE1, just for the record. It's still in early access, so they've got a ways to go to really fill out the content, but it's got a better basis than PoE1 started with (some of us do remember those days).

>>3991502
I'm gonna be real with you, I do miss DS2 in some ways. I loved the nature spells and the feeling of adventuring with a group / team. And the ults were really fucking fun. And searching for secret buttons and levers on every wall and in every nook...

I just find grim dawn so fucking boring, I don't know what it is

>>3996958
Ok. Maybe go think about that a bit and then come back when you have something interesting or meaningful to say.

>>3993692
It was radically innovative and popular because it could be played with friends over the internet instead of needing to be on the same couch, anon.

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Grim Dawn

>>3996962
D1 was the first game I played on the internet. Good times. The cheating was insane, people would use a trainer to cast spells in town and cast firewall where players joined so you’d be dead before even loading in

>>3992128
Are there other classes in TQ aside from melee types?
If not, then Grim Dawn and D2 obviously leads when it comes to playing as ranged/magic types.

>>3992128
tpbp
based
/thread

Couldn't imagine insulting a game I enjoy by describing it as "based".

>>3991156
Diablo 2 MXL

In the past there have been a few good ones, already posted ITT, but nothing really ever dethroned D2. The latest and greatest evolutions are probably Grim Dawn and Path of Exile, depending on which divergent direction is more to your liking.

>>3997294
Grim Dawn stood out more for me than PoE. I also don't like free to play games because there is always a catch. I haven't tried PoE 2 so I can't say anything about it.

Titan Quest 2 is in EA still and I think that will parallel Grim Dawn in quality despite mixed reviews because everybody bitches about something and there are no doubt shills and fans that make the review space unreliable.

The new Diablo II Resurrected with Warlock is really good. The developers actually listened to people and fixed the stash system. They added a new character. They added more end game content. I actually genuinely appreciate Blizzard for this and they bought back my business.

So to answer the threads original question:

Diablo II Resurrected
Grim Dawn (new HUGE expansion coming soon)
Titan Quest 2
Path of Exile 1/2

We're eating good guys. Just put out the positive vibes about these games and don't shit on them too hard. People work on their art and think they are making a good product, so it crushes people's spirits when you just spam vitriol about stuff instead of giving constructive criticism. Source: I used to spew a lot of venom and vitriol and saw the results. :(

>>3997071
Yeah dude just look them up. There are so many combinations to mess with. I don't recall them offhand but they exist. Titan Quest 2 is in Early Access and will be polished off by August I believe. I still haven't tried it myself, though I bought it to support the devs. I might dip in this summer to help them sculpt out the rest of their product, 'cause I tend to have a keen eye for things that are wrong and I think my critique will help guide them.

Check out TQ2, the original is good but it is VERY dated. There are a lot of QoL things lacking and that will turn many away. I still like it but know this going in so you aren't disappointed.

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>>3993564
>you need to invest 1000 hours to "appreciate the systems"
For the most part you would go to their website and look at their unique weapons catalog and dream of grabbing that one day while you continue grinding with your Blue level magic gear.

If your's autistic, you would then engage the grind for 1000 hours.

>>3996949
I find the aesthetic and theme of Grim Dawn inconsolably unappealing.

>>3997594
NTA, I liked it at first but I can see how the grimdark setting gets a bit boring. I really liked TQs varied setting of classical mythologies, plus it felt brighter and warmer than GD in general. Shame it's so dated compared to GD, even the TQ mod in GD felt pretty lackluster.

Diablo 4

>>4001268
-1/10 bait. Have some fucking pride in your trolling, anon.

>>3992279
Id kill for an arpg that handled spells with the mouse moving ur characters direction it was perfect. Nox was so great we lost a real og when Westwood died

>>4001439
>Id kill for an arpg that handled spells with the mouse moving ur characters direction it was perfect.
NTA but what are you saying here? How do you want spells to work?

>>4001444
He wants Arx Fatalis casting, clearly

>>4001447
black and white or nothin

man playing the d2 remake after grim dawn is just not the same. tq/gd now definitive arpg

>>3991156
Any word on the new dlcs for d2r?

>>4001493
i can't get into either, the worlds feel lame and boring
titan quest was alright when it came out but now? eh. no interest in playing that.

>>4001493
TQ is no D2
GD makes TQ obsolete

I got Sur rune today

>>4001493
d2 is a demake

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>>3991156
>definitive ARPG?
Desu Sex 1: Wuhan Conspiracy.

>>4003068
You’re using a different definition of ARPG than he is. You are using the older and broader meaning of “action RPG”, while the subgenre of Diablo-clones has now come to also be called “ARPG” despite being a subset of “action RPGs”

>>4003078
>Diablo-clones has now come to also be called “ARPG” despite being a subset of “action RPGs”

im too old for this zoomer revisionist poop.

>>4003113
"ARPG" vs "Diablo-clone" happened like 15-20 years ago, fellow grandpa

>>3991156
D2 before LoD and its patch, of course.
LoD had brought an official support of the "endgame" grind, LoD 1.10 had turned the game into mindless ADHD retardation with "streamlining" trees thus removing last incentives to think if you want to level some skills and why.
Also LoD had been designed without 2 out of 3 visionares and without half of the original team, so artstyle looks off (and quite boring compared to the original game). And the composer had entered his experimental phase with orchestra, so soundtrack sounds off too.
The true continuation of the original Diablo 2 are Torchlight 1 and 2.

>>4003158
>LoD had brought an official support of the "endgame"
It was surreal to me to go through D1 Battle.net with the cow level being a proto-meme urban legend, to actually being in D2. Then in vanilla D2 everyone would just run the cow level to farm XP 24/7, not playing the actual game, just a joke level. Even as a kid it felt wrong to me. Then when LoD came out everyone just ran Baal to farm XP. Sigh

>>4003304
ARPGs are about farming

>>4003535
They weren’t until Diablo 2.

>>4003535
>about farming
that's modern RPGs. or rather modern RPGs with online play and MMOs.

>>4003572
D1 is really more of a dungeon crawler, a precursor to what ARPG has meant for almost 30 years. Oldheads can rave and gnash their teeth about how RPGs should go back to Ultima VI of whatever all they want

>>4003304
>everyone
You're mistaking the retards who play online who are highly visible with representing the norm.

>>4003603
yeah and what's your robust source for "the norm"?

>>3992716
I'll have to check this out. I can't get into any of the Diablos other than one because (to quote >>3992279), the gameplay is usually >grind loot from bosses for 1000 hours while spamming a single button
I like the first Diablo because it has a more horror kind of feel, where you're basically trying to test yourself to see how far down in the labyrinth you can get before you have to retreat back to the village rather than just left-clicking to destroy everything effortless.

>>4003622
this is because you prefer dungeon crawlers over ARPGs

Aren't they all completely identical? Spam your AOE as you blitz through floors ignoring everything that isn't the highest rated gear.
I like Diablo 1. Nice and simple.

>4003581
you're still in here crying? go back to preddit already jeebus
we get it, you want (((you)))s

I opened Diablo 2 Resurrected for the first time in months and all my characters even new level 1s run at super speed. Was there some update to make everyone sprint?

>>4003653
sounds like a bug

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>>4003603
>You're mistaking the retards who play online who are highly visible with representing the norm.
The vast majority of Diablo 2 players played on the realms. Some people did play exclusively single-player (or LAN play with their single player characters), and some people did play on open battle.net (mostly people who want to cheat more easily), but absolutely most people played on closed battle.net.
>D1 is really more of a dungeon crawler, a precursor to what ARPG has meant for almost 30 years
Nah, the term "ARPG" in the sense of "Diablo clone" didn't really take off until maybe 15 years ago. "Diablo clone" was far more popular for many years.

>>4003590
U6 is turnbased, you moronos. not the same.

>>4003653
stop playing bad remakes.

>>4003659
so i was right? and the shitposters are all zoomers who are 15 years old?

>>4003665
I heard it was a good remake though

>>4003667
no >>4001889

>>4003659
>Nah, the term "ARPG" in the sense of "Diablo clone" didn't really take off until maybe 15 years ago. "Diablo clone" was far more popular for many years.
yeah and people used the term "Doom Clone" to describe FPS for a while, but they're still FPS games

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>>4003676
>yeah and people used the term "Doom Clone" to describe FPS for a while
Correct.
>but they're still FPS games
The anon I was replying to stated that the term "ARPG" had been used to describe Diablo clones for nearly 30 years, which is anachronistic and false, much like if you had said "we've been calling Doom clones 'first person shooters' for nearly 35 years"

>>4003682
You are discussing word history, I am discussing concept history. Words and concepts have independent careers, the ARPG concept existed prior to its word.

>>4003685
>You are discussing word history, I am discussing concept history. Words and concepts have independent careers, the ARPG concept existed prior to its word.
There's two different usages of the term 'ARPG'. One, the original usage of 'action RPG', and two, the later term 'ARPG' (also meaning 'action RPG' but always abbreviated and never spelled out) to mean specifically the subgenre of Diablo clones, which is the context in which the term is used in this thread, and also this reply chain.

>>4003688
thanks chat GPT

>>4003693
>thanks chat GPT
Dumb cope. I'm clearly talking to a couple of ignorant zoomers who weren't there.
>[Diablo is] a precursor to what ARPG has meant for almost 30 years
is an objectively false statement, since 30 years ago no one was using 'ARPG' in that sense. More like half that amount of time.
Just take the fucking L and move on with your day.

>>4003694
I'll be extra clear to avoid confusion

[Diablo] is a precursor to what ARPG [ARPG as in to mean specifically the subgenre of Diablo clones, which is the context in which the term is used in this thread, and also this reply chain] has meant for almost 30 years.

You are discussing word history, I am discussing concept history. Diablo has defined what ARPG [ARPG as in to mean specifically the subgenre of Diablo clones, which is the context in which the term is used in this thread, and also this reply chain] has meant for almost 30 years

>>4003703
>Diablo has defined what ARPG has meant
Agreed. "ARPG" in this context essentially has the same meaning as "Diablo-clone".
>for almost 30 years
Here is the portion of the statement I disagree with. The term was not used for "almost 30 years". It didn't become popular until 10-15 years ago or so. You could say something like "Diablo has defined what we would today call the ARPG genre" and that would be correct, but it is false to say that it, at that time, defined a term that would not be used until many years later.

So basically, you're nitpicking over nothing

>>4003716
>So basically, you're nitpicking over nothing
Buddy, you (?) made the objectively false statement and then quadrupled down on it. Not my fault you decided to shoot autism beams from a factually indefensible position. Hell, there's a non-zero chance I'm talking to anon(s) who haven't actually played Diablo or Diablo 2 and just watched "video essays" about it or some shit.
I haven't even brought up how all modern ARPGs are really cloning the formula from Diablo 2 and not Diablo

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Can someone explain to me like to a complete retard what is the point when you have too much mf? I have bit over 400 as fire lock and im nuking everything from orbit, mainly just running cows now since i need runes but no luck. Got this today tho so might go barb now if i can find some Lo runes. Never had that chest drop so i got pretty excited

>>4003951
>Can someone explain to me like to a complete retard what is the point when you have too much mf?
Diminishing returns. When it hampers your ability to quickly and efficiently farm whatever you're trying to farm. If you double your MF% but then it takes you four times as long to kill something, it's a net loss of efficiency.