Fuck Press TurnEveryone sucks this system's dick but you can't convince me it actually significantly adds to the strategy of fights. Ooooh you get a big reward for hitting an opponent's weakness no one's ever thought of that before. In fact if anything I'd argue it makes the game less strategic because it just leads to building your whole party around elemental weaknesses and supersedes any other tactics.
>>3996452I also hated people who say Persona/SMT had the best TB system for some reason. It's just weakness/resistance system with extra rewards for doing it.
cont. >>3996471Also one of the many reasons Octopath and Sea of Slop sucked because they prioritize finding type weaknesses instead of strategizing.
I love smt but I really don't get why people suck off this system so much.Its better than just bog stand jrpg combat but its nothing amazing.
>>3996452people love it because the enemies are also bound to the rules of the system
>>3996513Oh wow you also get a big punish for using a weakness the enemy can exploit such an innovate system that has never been seen
>>3996452Jarpigs think hit weakness, repeat is peak turn-based combat. Saw them complain that E33 doesn't rely on this gimmick, so it's bad lmao.
>>3996540>Expecting innovation in goymes made past 2011This is why shit like GAYchas and roblox win.>>3996574>Paper Mario with a french comic artstyleYawn. Chinks are the only one saving jarpigs.
>>3996452>Ooooh you get a big reward for hitting an opponent's weakness no one's ever thought of that beforePokemon's more complex than any other turn based RPG that exists
>>3996452I mean sure, but its fun.
>>3996595Except (PVP) Pokemon is predicated on both you and your opponent switching monsters trying to get into an advantageous position while baiting the opponent out. In SMT games (and other single player RPGs that heavily push matching enemy weaknesses) the enemies do not change mid fight, so you all your have to do is match your party/build to what the enemy's main weakness is.
>>3996452Woaaahhh so good
>>3996628how many times have you posted that stale bait?
>>3996513Not really, the enemies are stupid didn't make good use of the press turn
>>3996452>system rewards you for paying attention and building an appropriate team>NOOOO NOT LIKE THAT!!!OP is a faggot.
>>3996684>strategizing is all about teambuildingLiterally making use of your limitations and a large variety of options is peak strategy. Forcing you to play in a rock-paper-scissors game all the time isn't.
>>3996452Years after playing a bunch of press turn games I realized my main enjoyment comes from how simply fun it is. It’s most obvious in SMT IV, but press turn is just which side nukes the living fuck out of each other first and I find it really fun to watch unfold. Though I do think SMT VV is heading to the right direction with shit like ailment parties being mostly viable.
>>3996684The problem is that it rewards you too much for engaging with a single mechanic. There is less depth of strategy because "build a team of demons that exploit the boss' weakness" is the only important metric. Whereas in a better balanced game this would be just one thing to consider, and even a character who can't exploit the weakness might have another utility that makes up for it.
>>3996877I think you’re being reductionist trying to squash teambuilding down to just matching elements. There’s a lot more depth to it than that especially in VV, and matching elements stops being a factor anyways when you get access to things like crit and pierce. Bosses also do a lot more you have to account for besides just hit you with fire instead of ice.
>>3996947the one who is being reductive is the original anon he replied to, he was just referring to the strawman ">system rewards you for paying attention and building an appropriate team"SMT VV did a decent job by making demons not just a big ball of stats and elemental weakness/resistances, but the previous SMT games they were all that, which is the thing online SMT/Persona fans were championing as the best TB system in JRPGs
I prefer the persona 3/4 one more/all out attack system. 5 batons might as well be press turn anyways. It's like better in every way outside of the all out animation but even that could be shorten to just a quick 1 sec thing I also think 1 stage timed buffs work better than 4 stages unlimited buffs.It's a bigger reward instantly and prevents every boss from dekeja spamming or smt4 boss deletes you if you buff design
>>3996509Honestly I think when smt finally broke through the super niche barrier in the west the redeeming quality everyone saw was the fact that it was less forgiving than the likes of Pokemon and FF7 which is what they were used to in a jrpg. They cited the battle systems perhaps as an excuse to express this merit but it was secondary to the idea of difficulty. These days mass gaming culture is already well entrenched in hard = good but it was not that way 15-20 years ago (caveat: hard almost entirely means soulslike in this context)
>>3996601Pokemon is also the only jrpg that makes status effect work. Pokemon is laughed upon but ironically is generation ahead of smt/persona.
>>4000595>Pokemon is also the only jrpg that makes status effect workPlay more JRPGs, fool.
>>4000595>only jrpg that makes status effect workIn what world
>>4000595Megami Tensei came out before Pokemon, dumbass. Expand your knowledge of the genre before saying dumb shit like this.
>>4000595>Pokemon is also the only jrpg that makes status effect workFFIII-X are very rich in status effect manipulation, along with XII. I don't know about the MMOs though but I assume they are, I don't care however, since they aren't turn based.Etrian Odyssey with the head/arm/leg binds are pretty nice too, although it can be a bit simplistic since those are pretty much just disables with no real nuance.The good thing about Pokemon is Freeze/Burn/Paralysis can be played around and strategized with instead of just rendering the afflicted Pokemon as useless.>Pokemon is laughed upon but ironically is generation ahead of smt/personaYeah those SMT/Personafags are kinda dishonest faggots who just dismissed the competitive aspect of Pokemon, especially since we are talking about the qualities of a turn based combat system here, not what makes a single player campaign engaging.I still wonder why Smogonfags never talked about this topic though.
>>3999000>These days mass gaming culture is already well entrenched in hard = goodyou say that but every time a hard game is released people seethe and review bomb it
>>4000874That is literally unrelated to what he said
>>3996452>>3996471you're dumb and smell bad
The system works both ways. Buffs, debuffs and strength and weaknesses in general are extremely important. That's how you design a good combat system, especially when party building is a major mechanic. FFX also has one of the best systems until you reach the end of the game and get to generalize the character builds and just spam Quick Hit.
>>4001479you're even dumber and reeks of shit since you provided 0 insight in this thread, dumbo.
>>3996452it isn't about making the game more difficult or more strategic. it's about increasing the fucking player satisfaction in multiple ways:>cast spell on weakness>do damageyawn>cast spell on weakness>damage flashes out in a fancy waybetter>cast spell on weakness>screen shakes and shit explodes everywhere, the numbers are huge, the navigator character is flipping their shit, you get an extra turnfeels greatit's simple
>>4001838that's quite a dumb reason and doesn't really qualify what makes a system good
It's also the only system I've encountered that makes consumable attack items feel good to use. In other games, you use a consumable that matches the enemy's weakness, okay, you've dealt a bit more damage than you otherwise would have with an attack. Except the attack doesn't cost you anything, while the consumable comes from a limited supply in your inventory.Most of the time I just let them rot in my inventory because they feel utterly pointless.In MegaTen games however, using a consumable on a guy whose weakness you don't have a regular attack for gives you a bonus turn, effectively acting as an extra free attack, which makes them feel actually satisfying to carry and use.
>>3996452>press turns suuuucks guiiize shut up faggit. Go play Metaphor, they perfected the system in that game, where you can do dual attacks to use the press turn system in a much more complex way than previous SMTs or DDS etc
>>4000595Pokemon faggots are the smash players of JRPGs.
I love Press Turn. Ask me anything.
>>4001722nah thats you
>>4002098still no reasoning that just proves you are a stinky dumb press turn fan who appeals to popularity
>>4002094OP already provided an argument for you to respond. Why don't you just start with that?If you want an AMA just go to reddit bro
>>3996452Yeah it's retarded. Critting and hitting a weakness is already its own reward. Adding a second one on top of that is absurd.
>>4004094yup. just check the replies, their only reasoning was "it's the best because it's fun!"
Devil survivor extra turn mogs Agility chads win again
>>4001514No what actually happens is you look up a guide for what aoe spells the next boss has or just simply die to him once than make a demon that absorbs or nulls it and shit on it with zero thought, Repeat.It's simply too big of a reward for either side that doing anything else is a waste of time
Paper mario perfected turn based rpg combat in the year 2000
>>4001844it doesn't need to be a smart reason. to use a food analogy,>DUHHH WHY DOES EVERYONE LIKE YUMMY FOOD, IT'S NOT EVEN SPECIAL, WOOOOW THE FOOD IS YUMMY? HOW PREDICTABLE! OF COURSE I WOULD CHOOSE THE YUMMY FOOD! HOW STUPID!video games are about jerking the player off, so the systems in them should serve towards "making the player feel good." do not forget that you and i are animals.
>>4005807>everyone likes fried chicken! but to me it's just chicken? why can't I get something more flavorful?
>>3996702>Literally making use of your limitations and a large variety of options is peak strategy. That's literally what SMT games do. Why do you mouthbreathing niggers keep posting in threads about games you've never played?
>>4000595It's laughed upon because Pokémon fans don't play other RPGs.
>>4006166>That's literally what SMT games do. Why do you mouthbreathing niggers keep posting in threads about games you've never played?Literally what OP is telling you that the system is not like that at all and yet the fans keep shoving that it's the best TB system in JRPGS in your face. Why get defensive without even attempting to address the complain first?
Main benefit of press turn isn't about using it yourself, it's about creating the possibility of random encounters killing you without making them take forever or depend on attrition.SMT 3 and DDS both have the ability to kill you in a random encounter for like 99% of the games even though individual random encounters will generally be over more quickly than other PS2 JRPGs.
>>4006554>SMT 3 and DDS both have the ability to kill you in a random encounter for like 99% of the gamesThat happens once a playthrough if you are underleveled or a lucky insta death hits the mc.
>>4006568You haven't played them in a while. Especially on hard mode some enemy can ambush you, crit or hit a weakness with an aoe, and then you can easily die as they get effectively double damage from the press turns. I just played DDS2 and Narashima can occasionally kill an entire party in his ambush in the final dungeon, and even when he doesn't he'll commonly kill 1-2 party members and force you to burn rare consumables and shit to stay alive, despite being a fight that would take a few seconds to finish if you went first.
>>3999000>Honestly I think when smt finally broke through the super niche barrier in the westFirst SMT game to be released in the west was Nocturne. If you're going to be petty about talking about the whole MT series then no, Jack Bros. on the Virtual Boy would never have any success due to its platform.
I prefer Persona's "one more" system, especially the system used in Persona 5. I don't like the aspect of losing turns in Press Turn. I think you should always have your standard turns, and be able to get bonus turns. If there has to be losing turns, you should only lose bonus turns.
>>4008759>I don't like the aspect of losing turns in Press Turn. so you want to be a super casual, got it. Not get punished for fucking up. Then I have a game for you, designed for casual fucks like you and DSP
>>4004655No, Nocturne's still one of the hardest JRPGs ever. Reduce the Merciless damage modifier back to normal levels and even Persona 5 gives you a solid challenge.
>>4008846Nocturne's not even harder than many other Atlus JRPGs
>>4008822>so you want to be a super casual, got it.I don't like it from a game design perspective. You need to hit an enemy with an elemental attack to learn its affinity for that element. So you do that and it happens to be strong in that element. You get punished by losing a turn.I don't think players should be punished by playing the game the way it was intended to be played.If you think that makes it too easy, I would increase difficulty by making the enemies use the same strategies as the players do. In a Persona 5 like system, that would mean the enemies using baton passes too, enemies trying to knock down all of your party so they can do an all out attack, etc.
>>4009125>You need to hit an enemy with an elemental attack to learn its affinity for that element.no spyglasses?
>>4008846Most of the difficulty just comes from not knowing what attack the next boss does. If you look at a guide or die to it to see you just make a null/repel demon to abuse press turn, repeat Nocturne also isn't that hard on its intended difficulty, normal.Hard mode is a meme overturned mess for retards like most hard modes.It's funny people shit on persona for the gameplay not mattering when fes is literally one of the most grindy smt games with bigger difficulty spikes than most ON normal.That table is harder than 95% of nocturne bosses easily.On the difficulty most people actually will play.
Remember most people think magic protag is bad and go all in strWhen magic demi fiend is just straight up more powerful for 99% of the game. Nocturne fags are literally retarded and have no idea what they are doing.
