Is it just me or do they just seem to fall off in most JRPGS? They are alright early game and just fall to the wayside >Arc the LadShu was alright till midgame, that's when he fell off hard in comparison to the other characters. He was more so a Ninja who could steal. Lutz was kinda shit >FF5The class is alright for getting through the first few areas, but there are better classes as the game progresses>FF6Locke starts off as thief, but his class and skills become malleable with the use of magicite as the game progresses>FF9Zidane starts off as a thief, but becomes a warrior as the game progresses>FFXWell everyone gets the whole sphere grid once you do a couple of rounds in the monster coliseum.>FFX-2There are better skills>FFTUtter shit, get steal weapon,armor, shield, accessory, and helmet and move on. >Breath of fire 3Rei becomes a warrior after the timeskip>Chrono CrossEh, Kidd was ok, but there were better party members>DQ3 and DQ7Kinda meh class. Safe passage is nice, but becomes irrelevant late game.>DQ8Yangus had some thief skills, but he was a warrior at heart.
>>3999933Japs just have a very narrow understanding of what Thieves are capable of
>>3999933Zidane will never be stronger than rat or steiner. How would you even make thief viable endgame?>fftSteal equipment is nigh game breaking
>>3999968also the +speed you get from grinding thief
>>3999933Tactical RPGs have it right by implementing positioning in battle mechanics.So like if for example Zidane from FF9 could spend an entire turn to move to the back of the enemy and then start doing something like an additional 1.5x to 2x damage (depending on additional passive skills he could unlock), and this would force the enemy A.I. to have to consider facing him instead of the other 3 characters, then Zidane is already OP enough with just this single change in the battle mechanics, in my opinion.For balancing purposes, the other 3 could do 1.25x while the enemy is facing the other way.
>>4000038FF9 has pincer attacks iirc. idk if it improves steal % but it already does the stuff you're talking about. Not sure if you can deliberately proc it, but most of the work is already done.
>>3999968Steal equip is too low probability to be very tactical.
Is there a single jRPG where a thief can pick locked doors as a gameplay element?
>>4000166FF3
>>3999968>>3999983>Steal equipment is nigh game breakingwell the class itself is shit. Like I said in the first post, take the skills and slap in on ninja or monk. That game was all about taking skills from other classes and sticking them on something better.>>4000166I think FF5 as well and DQ8
>>4000145Speed Break+Concentrate.
Ffxi theif has sneak and trick attack which is incredibly powerful for aggro control.Even theif as main os useful without treasure find.Miss thst game
>>4000166Unlimited Saga
To be fair, most JRPGs end up battling against world ending threats.Kinda need someone a little more potent than a petty criminal to stand a chance
>>4000338Unless you're playing the 1.3 difficulty hack, in the time it takes to speed break and steal a weapon you could have just KO'd them outright. 1.3 tends to include lots of enemies that will do sandbagging with phoenix down and raise so permanent debilitation is highly valuable, but in the vanilla game it's basically always more effective to just go for the KO than to bother disarming. (Assuming the goal is just to win. If the goal is to steal an item or break down an enemy to leave everyone else free to grind or move-find item that's a different story)
>>3999948well do tell, what are they capable of?>>4001011If someone like Torneko, Tingle, or Rocket can save the world thieves should be able to as well.>>3999933adding more to the list >DQ11Erik fell of hard in comparison to the others, his doppelganger skill was nice, but he just didn't stack up.>Disgaea series They've got speed sure, and higher steal rates; but the method used for stealing is a consumable item. Once your lvl is in the 1000's that becomes negligible >Phantom brave The one game where they accel, Putties are actually very useful and can disarm enemies with ease.
>>4001348>>DQ11>Erik fell of hard in comparison to the others, his doppelganger skill was nice, but he just didn't stack up.Are you insane?Doppleganger -> fatal flash outdamages the rest of the party twice over. Once I reached act 3, my boss killing setup was Veronica as an oomphle dispenser, and hero and serena as healers. No other setup I tried came close in sheer single target dps.
>>4001348Meta-level of stealing is OPsteal heart (FFT), steal EXP/JP (FFTA)life/mana stealingsteal voice (silence), steal time (CT/stop)steal (insert x attribute here) e.g. steal speed/strengthLastly, maybe Poison weaponry, although this is more of an assassin's toolkit
>>4000042>FF9 has pincer attacks iircno pincers in 9>>4000304>I think FF5nah, thieves just gave you faster party movement if they were the lead and revealed hidden paths
>>3999933Just play a crpg
>>4001011>Kinda need someone a little more potent than a petty criminal to stand a chanceThis is why high level thieves should become quasi-magical. Instead of sneaking through the shadows, they become shadows. Instant teleport, just because they can. Insane accuracy and speed. Impossible luck.
>>4001565Or actually make small scale jRPG narratives.
>>3999933My biggest issue with Chrono Cross is how important steal is, decent equips throughout the game and stealing Plates from the 6 gods means you're always gonna want a Thief in (usually Fargo)Its fine because he's busted strong but it really kills the character diversity
>>4001577based dubs, again. Fargo is more of a fighter that can steal, as opposed to Kidd was was a straight up thief.>>4001565That's wat I was saying earlier, the putties are actually useful because they are mages who can steal. >>4001366It's been almost eight years since I played it, I thought that Hendrik and Jade had the highest DPS.>>4001433again my bad, I thought that there was lock picking, it's just been so long since I played it.>>4001417>steal heart (FFT),We can kill them outright when we have barefist/dualwield on a ninja.>steal EXP/JP (FFTA)just grind and don't be a bitch>steal voice (silence),Don't act/don't move on time mage and >>4001449>>4001568stop acting white
>>4001608Nah I forgot to mention that steal should also give you bonuses from what you have stolen. which is pretty much a more OP version of those already existing skills
>>4001608What's wrong with small scale jRPG narratives, diaper-kun?
>>3999968>How would you even make thief viable endgame?Enemies that have powerful attack and healing items as part of their moveset, but you can shut them down by stealing from them. Also if inventory is limited, a thief can keep things topped up by stealing from enemies.
>>4001727Well fighting a local villian or something of that nature would be interesting, but when people here mean a small scale narrative they mean pestilence, dull brown and dirty scenerios. I mean Triangle Strategy was smaller scale than most JRPGs, but thieves still sucked.>>4001756That's what happened in the disgaea titles, but like I said earlier, stealing was based on items and anyone who had good enough speed and their lvl in the 3000+ could steal with at least 50/50 shot.I made pringer x my bitch by stealing all of his items in disgaea 4.
>>4001806>people hereYou aren't talking to "people here", you're talking to me. Some scenarios of Live-a-Live and Octopath were smaller scale as well. I mean not just a local concern, like saving a city or a village, but also smaller scale in power level. Think Seven Samurai.Just doesn't get done much.
>>4001818\>, like saving a city or a village, but also smaller scale in power levelOK, true......Arc the Lad was like such, but had a massive power scale leap around endgame. Same with many other JRPGS, it seems to be a power level jump; the only titles in which the characters are above a planetary scale are NIS titles post-game. Truth be told most final bosses seem to be scaled down to fight every party when they encountered. >Arc the LadFinal boss is wreaking havok upon the planet during the fight, but our party is using simple weapons and spells.>Chrono TriggerLavos is leveling the damn planet, but we brought him down with a few building level attacks? WTF?>FFXI get it was a multipronged attack, but Sinn seemed way tougher outside of battle>Breath of FireEh, this is supposed to be a god here, yet she is taken out by our party
>>4001727They're boring.
