>>4002288
>Level scaling sucks
This is what midwits would have you believe

>>4002297
It's makes leveling pointless, especially if it's linear scaling.

>>4002303
See?

Is there a single person on this board who is not a midwit at their best?

>>4002297
>>4002315
Great arguments, retard.

>>4002288
Level scaling sucks but I like damage floors for both the player and the enemy. Being able to tank damage should be build specific and not just based on level and progression.

>>4002288
Level scaling is fine if there's a limit per certain region/groups of enemies like in AC Odyssey. The starting area goes up to level 15 and never beyond, later regions have a higher limit etc. Unlimited level scaling like in Oblivion just stinks and punishes the player for playing the game.

>>4002303
It depends on what leveling gives you. If levels represent horizontal expansion of your toolkit, not just your vertical power, then no it doesn't make leveling pointless. You still prefer having more tools, even if the challenges you face remain challenging.
There aren't many games which involve explicit levels that don't match challenges to your level either implicitly (by simply staging your progress through the game's content such that you enter higher level areas as you gain levels) or explicitly (by hard coding enemies and challenges so that they dynamically match your level no matter where you are).
In fact, Owlcat has gotten a lot of flak for how easy their games become by the time you reach the end game. That's the actual result of level scaling of content not keeping up with the player's power growth: you trivialize the game and end up bored because there's no challenge left.
And something similar happens in Oblivion and Skyrim, too, you know. There's "level scaling" but it just flat out does not keep up with you for very long. Which is why the end game in those games is so boring: everything is trivialized because you've outscaled it.

morrowind is the only good elder scrolls game.

So just disable it? I haven't played a single playthrough with levelscaling in both games since like 2019 or something

Level scaling is fundamentally flawed and a failure on the part of game designers. Tailoring the challenge to the player should be done through world design and quest design, not by a clumsy algorithm. It has never felt good and has always been immersion-breaking, silly, and gamey. It violates the games own internal rules.

>>4002385
morrowind also has level scaling

>>4002410
>morrowind also has level scaling
Morrowind has more leveled lists than Morrowind fanboys think it does but less than Morrowind haters think in does. There are a few creature types spawned from leveled lists (Daedra, undead) but every single humanoid NPC in the game has a fixed level, stat and skill block, and inventory, so no it does not have “level scaling” in the sense that Oblivion, or a lesser extent Skyrim, do.

>>4002297
nah its a lazy mechanic for shit devs who don't want to balance their game and want to baby players in open worlds

>>4002410
Yes, but not universally, and not to the degree of the two following games.

>oh you've settled into a character build that kills monsters good? Well fuck you, here's a new stat block for every trash mob in the game, we put a thousand game hours into hardening everything against your idea of fun AND WE'LL FUCKING DO IT AGAIN

Skyrim had good level scaling where the higher up in elevation you went, the higher the floor would be. Oblivion's was lazy and bad sure, which is why they never did it like that again.

>be 8 in unscaled cyrodiil
>agree to kill some west weald bears that have been bothering some poor fellow's sheep
>first bear is no problem
>second bear looks lazily up at you from the dead xivilai it had just 1-shotted
>lure to imperial city
>depopulate the docks, talos, gardens
>finally goes down under heavy fire after eating half the university
>time for 3rd bear

>>4002445
>Skyrim had good level scaling where the higher up in elevation you went, the higher the floor would be.
It’s an okay idea in principle, but in practice it did very little because of how low the floors and ceilings are, and how narrow the ranges are. You will generally never notice it except for a handful of “late game” areas entered at a very low level. I’ve manually modded all the encounter zones before and it’s very tedious.

>>4002288
yeah

>>4002416
It also has a LOT of pre-placed loot and monsters. Plus, I don't think many people have a problem with monsters being replaced by explicitly stronger versions. The problem with level scaling comes in when you face identical-looking enemies that are stronger for no reason. Like a rat having 15 HP at level 3 suddenly has 250 HP at level 15 for no reason other than your character got stronger, and now those weak-looking rats are more powerful in absolute terms than mountain bears were at level 3.
Skyrim and Oblivion both scale like that. Morrowind doesn't.

>>4002742
>Like a rat having 15 HP at level 3 suddenly has 250 HP at level 15 for no reason other than your character got stronger
>Skyrim and Oblivion both scale like that. Morrowind doesn't.
..Morrowind is the one that has level scaled rats, you doofus.

>>4003290
they all do

>>4002382
Self explanatory. Every point you make. Most games have like 1-100 and most skills are learned around 30 to 50. Having level 100 when starting around is stupid. In part 2 you start again at level 2, lol.

>>4003299
Oblivion and Skyrim do not have level scaled rats, unless there's some quest specific variants I don't remember.

>>4003319
level scaling applies to everything in Oblivion and Skyrim

>>4002288
It's fine, but it needs to be used carefully. Some enemies can scale, some shouldn't, depends on the area, quest. Equipment might scale, but it might not. Bandits might get better gear, with or without scaling, but not all of them, for example.

>>4002288
at least you were able to realize skyrim ALSO has the exact same problem true CHIM comes when you realize the remaining 3 games all have it too, they just did it better lol.
idk if its just me playing mage/mage variations too much, or everyone else NOT playing mage ENOUGH, but the same issue is very apparent in (vanilla) skyrim for a pure magic-user. the scaling itself might be slightly toned down, but the tools you have left to fight back with are severely kneecapped. to the point where it feels a LOT worse
in oblivion its basically the opposite. pure physical characters just dont have the tools they need to keep up with max END critters scaling directly with their PCs lvl. everything ends up a sponge.

thankfully the quick and dirty fix is pretty easy. just lower the bottom bracket for scaling so that weak enemies dont disappear, and so every bandit isnt at whatever absurd PC lvl youre at. then just add lvl caps depending on which enemies, could be at different lvls. for wolf, 10. for a bandit it might be >20, etc on enemies so they stop scaling to infinity
boom, it just works™
ill take my gorillion dollhairs todd kthx

>>4002288
Yes.
>>4002297
>lets be contrarian for no reason
You are a retard.

>>4003319
Oblivion and Skyrim don't have variants. They invisibly gain HP and damage as you level. Morrowind has Diseased and Blighted rats which are stronger than regular, but all three variants' stats are fixed regardless of whether you encounter them at level 1 or level 30.

>>4003373
>Oblivion and Skyrim don't have variants. They invisibly gain HP and damage as you level.
False.

>>4003382
he's right tho

>>4002410
It's basically non existent and only effects random overworld spawns iirc

>>4003388
>It's basically non existent and only effects random overworld spawns iirc
False.

>>4003388
>only effects random overworld spawns
and about half of all the dungeon ones too. basically anything that isnt a named NPC. its the VAST majority of all enemies youll fight in the game
same thing with the loot. the stuff placed in the world is all static, and a few important chests are similarly static, but nearly every other container is randomly generated based on your lvl when you open it.
MW just balances it better by blending some statics in with the procgen mush, leading ppl to praise its "totally handcrafted world" its dont. they just procgenned it better lol.

>>4003383
diff fag, but he isnt
oblivion DOES have variants, but due to how the scaling/encounter tables works, some of them wont rly show up, particularly the lower variants. for ex, if you go do that anvil fighters guild quest with pinarus when youre low lvl, you wont be fighting actual mt lions like youd be fighting out in the wilds at like lvl 15. theyll be "starving mt lions", and much much weaker and with way worse stats

then theres all the obvious ones
off the top of my head
>wolves/timber wolves
>stunted scamps/scamps
>clannfear runts/clannfears
>various dremora (both the melee and mage types have several variations each)
>xivilai (same as above)
>faded wraiths/wraiths/gloom wraiths
>liches/ancient lichs
etc
theres a lot more tho. and all of them not only have different stats, and scale differently, but they have diff spells, diff constant effects, different loot tables etc.
again the issue is that due to the way the scaling works. youll generally see one variation over and over, till the next lvl scale, when theyll be gone forever and be replaced by the new variation
you gotta look at it chronologically. MW was pissbabby ez. that was a problem a lot of ppl had. so they overcorrected, making EVERYTHING scale to PC lvl. then everyone complained again, so they "widened the bracket" for what can show up at what lvl, and applied caps to non-unique enemies in skyrim. still pretty much the same system tho, they just took out attributes entirely rather than trying to just fix shit lol how about just not making it so every mob gets max HP/lvl? just a thought lol

>>4002288
I have never had a problem with it, outside the funny situation where someone in ebony armour is trying to rob me. Like, just go sell your armour bro. You can live the rest of your life on the gold from that.

>>4002288
Level scaling keeps the whole world relevant.
Without scaling, you either need to make the difference in power from one level to another be negligible, or you have to just accept that the player is only going to be viable in a small section of the world at any given time, and once they grow out of it, they become railroaded to the next.
You no longer have the choice of which direction to go, and what to do because the vast majority of them are going to be too low level or too high level.

>>4002288
Yes it is, and everyone disagreeing is an obvious retard.
The solution is to abolish levels. They were a fucking stupid idea back in the 1970s, and they're beyond retarded now.

>>4003557
>They were a fucking stupid idea back in the 1970s, and they're beyond retarded now.
Don’t sign you are posts, nonbinary-kun

>>4003569
wow nice hypocrisy

>>4002476
That's the point of the design, to let people set off in any direction they want and have a mostly frictionless experience. By contrast, New Vegas had it set up so that to have a frictionless experience you had to take the long way around to New Vegas and it made a lot of Bethesda game fans angry.

>>4003501
Have you considered not having entire regions stuck at one level set? NPCs and sublocations in a region can be different level than the norm of that region, anon. Morrowind did that easily.

>>4002742
It's most apparent with mages in Skyrim, they all wear the same dark robe that protects absolutely nothing, but the master mages can tank 20 axe hits to the face for some reason. Mods improve Skyrim so much, shame nexus has become such garbage, modding is so daunting these days, especially with the anniversary edition fiasco with so much stuff that is so fucking bad I wouldn't want it in my game even for free, the very presence of the "content" is a downgrade.