>>4002321
It kind of depends on what Fallout game we're talking about. Unless you mean post apocalypti, dire situation settings in general.

The plot makes it feasible to explore forgotten dungeons and visit remote villages but also shoot guns.

>>4002321
the music

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>>4002321
The worldbuilding in that game is just too fucking good. It actually feels like what the region around Las Vegas would look like in the aftermath of a nuclear war. Almost feels like a ttrpg.

>>4002927
It really doesn’t. I was living in Vegas at the time the game came out. It looks like a bunch of C*lifornian leftist faggots went on a field trip, took a couple pictures, and then went home to sodomize each other in the name of “balance”.

>>4002321
I think any series of games could be "good" if it got the open world treatment that Bethesda gave Fallout. It was already a successful formula with Morrowind/Oblivion. All Bethesda did was grab the rights to Fallout and do the same thing. Could have been any game, imo. People like open world.
As for why it entered into our culture, that has more to do with gaming becoming super popular by the mid 2000's. Before that, gamers were niche, hardly anyone gave a shit, and it was still treated as a contemptible waste of time... until world of warcraft went crazy and introduced millions of people to gaming, then it became normalized pop culture. Fallout 1 and 2 (released in 97/98) barely had 250k sales by 2000.
The reason normies like it, well, nukes and guns are pretty cool.

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>Here's a gun. You're gonna need it.
I almost feel bad for those who didn't start at the start, but Fallout will blow anyone's mind no matter which game they play first, even a piece of shit like New Vegas.

>>4002321
>resonate with gamers so much?
no. STALKER Clear Sky did that to me. because i lived in pre-WW2 army barracks ,next to a stinky swamp and a river.
and no, i am not a ukrainian army of skynet drones.

>>4002973
Play Tactics. Brohood of Steel should have won.

>>4002933
California is the best state.

>>4003066
Best state, and best Fallout setting.

>>4003066
>>4003070
Go back to your third world favela shithole (I'm talking about California btw).

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>>4003077

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>>4003085

>>4002933
Why the fuck would you live in that region

>>4003115
ty based todd

>>4002321
There's multiple kinds of drama.
>high drama: deeply philosophical and asks greater questions about life and reality. Think Hamlet.
>low drama: dumb but fun. Think DBZ.
>human drama: things like sex, jealousy, greed. Think GoT.
>moral drama: seeks to teach the audience a lesson. Think Nu-GoW.
Anglo-American media is absolutely obsessed with the last two. You couldn't remotely imagine such writers enjoying things like Dragon Ball Z or old Spiderman comics, for example. No, they need to have Goku/Spiderman having sex and relationship drama, and that needs to be what drives the plot. So New Vegas was kind of the last major American RPG I can think of that had the plot driven by politics and ideology over petty human drama, and let the player come to their own decision on who to support morally. If Obsidian made the game just a year or two later Caesar's motivation would be sexual frustration after developing ED from old age, so he founds the Legion to feel young again.
>reddit space
Oh and before some pedantic autist says it, no the game isn't devoid of human/moral drama, it's just not the driver of the plot.

>>4002321
There wasnt really any competition offering a similar experience back then and even today this hasn't been replicated, a few game have tried but they more often than note miss the mark especially in term of the roleplaying aspect, there is always something to railroad towards whatever main quest there is. Take something like that Atomfall game, the only thing it had going on for it was the "no quest pointer", in term of reactivity or replayability there wasn't much.

>>4002321
In one word, immersion

>>4003159
It's kind of sad that a binary choice between liberal democracy and a slaveholding military dictatorship is held up by so many as a pinnacle of political storytelling in video games.

>>4002933
Not from Vegas but exactly my viewpoint. It's pretty clear that actual Vegas wouldn't look like that.

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>>4002321
For me, superficially, it was that I found it when I was becoming a hipster obsessed with crooners and Western-USA aesthetics. Sierra Madre is still my favorite area in any video game and I encourage all Dead Money fans to listen to the Arctic Monkeys' Tranquility Base Hotel and Casino record start to finish.
Just as superficially I was longing for a F/TP RPG where your choices actually matter, and I maintain that F:NV is in the top 2 best games who accomplish this, the other one of course being VTMB. I remember asking about a game like this on /v/ using also the words "not afraid to swear" which is pretty funny to me in hindsight. I must have been 14 or so and I didn't have a good enough PC to run either. Anyway
As you grow up you do sort of realize that you end up doing the same missions anyway, and the world itself is not as good as you'd like it to be. There's only 5 actual towns, being generous with the "town" status of places like Primm, and there's not a whole lot to do in any of them, but you do always notice new stuff every new playthrough if you're serious about exploring. I came in my pants finding House's lakeside manor and was then disappointed to see that it's just a place to visit.
I think RPGs are at their best when they allow for the player to autistically create his own story and find the motivations for his character without railroading him down any specific path, and F:NV does that flawlessly, with just enough response from the world to make your actions feel weighty, but not so much that you get the sense you're going through the motions down a scripted path.

>>4003231
Calling the NCR a liberal democracy is a bit generous. They certainly weren't afraid to genocide the Great Khans, and General Moore is basically a psychopath.

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>>4003292
>>4003231
Pleb take of great proportions. If you take the game seriously, you can play through Honest Hearts and even if you sympathize with Graham as I'd guess most players do, you can imagine a character who's saddened to see what vicious tribes can get up to without the order and discipline a faction like Caesar's Legion can provide if he's misguided enough. Realistically, even Joshua would agree with this sentiment if not for the whole burning debacle. In fact, in some ways, he's worse than Caesar, in that he's not looking to integrate and civilize sadistic savages, rather he wants to kill them all. Add to that meeting Lily or Dog and feeling sorry for them, getting fucked by Nighstalkers and Cazadors, visiting Vault 22 etc, then reading all of the terminal entries you'll find in OWB and it's enough to justify a hatred for science for science's sake and greed and technological advance which might make a Courier wandering the desert encountering mindless violence every day think Caesar does make some compelling points. There's just enough "scholar"-type characters who agree with the Legion, certainly enough who are not retarded savages who freely support him.
Of course, all of this plus the dichotomy of slavery vs indebted servitude to brahmin barons falls squarely under the high drama umbrella which the other anon mentioned which I can see easily going over your head. Still, even with devs shoehorning rape and gay sex in the faction, you'll find traders who say outright that the Legion provides security and order everywhere it exists. The game also does a good job at showing you the NCR's incompetence every step of the way. Genuinely I can't remember a place you meet them where they don't come off as doofuses, doofi if you prefer and amateurs.
By the way, usually I go with House, in case you're that transsexual who calls the legion "fascistic" when what you mean to say is "totalitarian" because you don't know the meaning of words.

>>4003296
Liberal democracy is a political system. The great khans were not an ethnic group. A nation-state's pursuit of its geopolitical goals is not something contingent upon any particular domestic political system.
God damn, you didn't pay ANY attention at all in your middle school civics classes.

>>4003302
They don’t teach kids civics anymore, and haven’t for several generations.

>>4003302
>A nation-state's pursuit of its geopolitical goals is not something contingent upon any particular domestic political system
No, but one can judge the morality inherent in a nation-state by its predisposition to expand and subdue, and the means by which it does so.

>>4002321
familiar but different
dumpster diver simulator

>>4003115
Reminds of those improvised shit shacks from Fallout games...

>>4002403
This
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_cLRP-QQxn4

>>4003115
>CA is turning into Rio de Janeiro
Grim.

>>4004453
>is turning

>>4003297
The NCR does have competent people, and the incompetency of the NCR is pretty well-known, but the actual nation-ending incompetency is nested within dialogue trees or comes from cut content. The problem is that the most competent people tend to self-sabotage.

For example, Colonel Hsu is incredibly competent, moral, and upstanding. In cut content, because he chooses to give credit to his fellow NCR troopers for the victory at the Second Battle, Colonel Moore--who ends Ambassador Crocker's career if you forge a treaty with the Brotherhood and politically backstabs you if you spare the Great Khans, on top of being known by the troopers for getting thrown out of even Gomorrah for her awful behavior--will take full credit for it, which gets her promoted to Brigadier General. Hsu self-sabotaging puts someone unfit for the promotion in the spotlight.

Chief Hanlon is able to single-handedly upend operations in the Mojave with false intel, which only a single comm officer notices and is almost incapable of researching on her own. He's also the reason Kimball sent all of the veteran rangers to Baja. Because of the lie he told to the few troopers in Rattletail:
>So I walked up and told them there was a group of raiders coming, one hundred strong. I made up some cockamamie name for them and everything.
These troopers would settle in Anza-Borrego, some 90 miles east of Dayglow.
>Mojave Outpost sent word through the stations. The rangers coming up from Baja moved through Dayglow a week ago. Some of the patrol rangers have reported that Oliver's power armor heavy troopers are starting to reinforce the front lines. Wish they got here a bit earlier, but that's the senate for you.
>NCR's senate has got funds tied up at the Boneyard and President Kimball ordered our most experienced rangers to chase ghosts down in Baja.
Hanlon's white lie 20 years ago could potentially end the NCR's presence in the Mojave.

>>4002321
It's a setting like no other. It's post-apocalyptic and sci-fi, while also being very 40s-50s coded. And then it has a bunch of weird shit like larping romans, wannabe knights in mecha armor who hoard tech, cults which worship radiation.

It's so in-depth and unique that it really stands out.
Even in games (or the show) which don't do the setting justice, like 4, 76, and the TV series, it is still a really unique and captivating setting.

>>4005614
>It's a setting like no other. It's post-apocalyptic and sci-fi, while also being very 40s-50s coded. And then it has a bunch of weird shit like larping romans
Stopped reading here. Not Fallout.

>>4005645
Stfu

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>>4003231
Considering how many retards literal non-humans hate the Stormcloaks or the NCR when they're written to be the obvious best choice by far, those choices are sadly not obvious to many.

>>4003296
They never genocided the GK, who actually fucking deserve it. The NCR has been saintly towards those filthy evil fucks, and they should be exterminated to the last, they're an insane narco-terrorist cult that beats and rapes their own children and provides direct aid to multiple evil group. Convincing the GK to all commit suicide at the Dam is the best ending.

Moore is entirely reasonable with the info she's got, the GK deserve extermination, the BoS deserve it as well and are a techno-cult who become raiders if you let them do what they wish, and the Kings are a local gang who refuse to submit to lawful authority and did beat up peace envoys (even if the King didn't know about it).

>>4005911
The extreme bias in how "people" judge situations because of their insane brainwashing is also incredibly telling. The Empire in Skyrim has lost control of 5 provinces, and is losing control of a 6th one. It is in ruins, all its nobles are corrupt and weak, major cities get pillaged by common bandits, they are enslaved to a foreign power and have done nothing but decay for 200 years. Yet subhumans keep pretending it's just about to recover and everything is fine.

Then you have the NCR, who are an incredibly strong nation, with a fully safe territory (which the Mojave isn't a part of, they're guests, it's absolutely not NCR territory), where everything is working well despite some corruption, who are by far more powerful and efficient than any other faction in the game, and who keep expanding their territory and bringing wealth, technology, safety, water and food to people. And this is what subhumans INSIST is doomed to fail, cannot last, has to go down right this instant because their FEELINGS told them.

The only reason Skyrim has issues is because the Empire exists to enforce and protect foreign death squads. The only reason the Mojave isn't already conquered by the Roman larpers is the NCR. And subhumans manage to invert all of reality and come to the exact opposite conclusion any actual fucking human would.

>>4005916
>The extreme bias in how "people" judge situations because of their insane brainwashing is also incredibly telling.
Muh racism
Muh dossier

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>>4005918
Indeed. And the neurotic view of the Khans as some le oppressed ethnic group when they're neither an ethnic group nor oppressed, but multi-generational raiders who admit to your face that they murder children for fun and teach their own kids to do so as well before beating them to an inch of their life in a ritual cartel initiation... It's the whole language debacle constantly, they genuinely do not compute any objective data, they glance at certain words, then go into psychotic rants because of the emotional freakouts those specific words cause them.

>>4005916
didnt the ncr fuck up its entire water supply by draining dams and reservoirs at the behest of brahmin barons which is leading to a famine within a generation that the osi cant find a solution for

>>4005935
They mismanaged some lakes and aquifers, and in an absolute worst case scenario it could lead to a famine, but we have no real info on the extent of the issue (and anything said by Hanlon can be dismissed as he's a depressed suicidal retard desperate to believe the NCR is done for so he doesn't have to stop mopping around like a bitch), and even if they truly shat the bed, no other faction would have any solution to the issue.

They still have enough to be able to open up sharecroppers farm in front of Vegas, whose purpose is to show the prosperity of the NCR to convince locals to accept and demand NCR rule. And it's hilarious that the shit-covered freaks of Westside keep seething about how they're totally independent and don't need the NCR when in the next breath they beg you to continue letting them steal NCR water or they'll all die.

And we know they are investigating the issue, whatever its scope is, and no ending mentions any water-related issue. So it's a legitimate concern, but there is no reason to believe things have a serious risk of going to shit.

>>4005935
>didnt the ncr fuck up its entire water supply by draining dams and reservoirs
I think that was just the regular California Republic, anon.

>>4005939
which ncr npcs dont have biased opinions

both boone and cass complain that the ncr is overextended but so does hanlon and hes a suicidal retard and both cass and the caravan guy at the legion fort admit that legion territory in arizona is tribal free. and the legion uses metal currency instead of printing paper like the ncr so the legion technically has a stronger economy since theres no caesar fiat to cause inflation (granted not having a debt based economy like the ncr means the legion cant prosper like how the us prospered once it stopped using the gold standard)

>>4005944
>like how the us prospered once it stopped using the gold standard
Bruh
The damage was done in 1913, not 1971, but the U.S. hasn’t prospered since the latter, instead its industry has been hollowed out and outsourced, and replaced with hyper-financialization of everything

>>4005944
I'm starting to think maybe the NCR isn't as good as I thought it was.

>>4005944
>which ncr npcs dont have biased opinions
Hanlon is the worst in that regard, as he has a personal stake in lying and misrepresenting things. He's a narcissistic boomer who wants everyone to die with him.

>both boone and cass complain that the ncr is overextended
It technically is, but that gets them the Dam which is a massive advantage, and it's more so the incompetence of Oliver than the fact of being over-extended that causes issues. And again, that would not be an issue were it not for the terrorist roman larpers on the other side of the river.

The NCR money (in the Mojave) isn't devalued because its paper money, but because locals don't know if the NCR will manage to stick around and if they don't, that money would become worthless. Fiat is literally trust, and the locals do not mistrust the money, they mistrust the ability of the NCR to remain here in the years to come.

It often comes to that, but if the Legion didn't exist, the NCR would be the undisputed good guys who already brought civilization in all its glory back to the Mojave before the game even began. The NCR eradicates raiders, creates strong trading routes, and brings with it scientists and various helpful groups like the Followers who canonically can only handle helping people thanks to NCR resources, no matter how much they bitch about it like the faggot Arcade.

>>4005946
>I'm starting to think maybe the NCR isn't as good as I thought it was.
All you had to do was play Fallout 2 to realize that, anon

>>4005949
i disagree but i gotta go to bed right now

thanks for sharing your opinions in a way other people can understand

>>4003115
Ayy lmaoo

>>4002321
1) This entire thread is proof enough. 16 years after NV, people still argue about the ingame politics and ethics
2) It's got some really quite superb worldbuilding and aesthetics. Retro-Futurism appeals to just about everybody, and Retro-Futurism that's then been nuked to oblivion remains a great idea even after Bethesda's wanton mangling. Just a shame FO2's still the only one to have actually decent location design
3) Real Fallout has never been tried. FO always leaves you wanting more because every game in the series suffers from at least one major and almost game-ruining flaw, but the setting's so intriguing and full of potential it invites players to fill in the gaps themself. I personally, and I suspect many others, have a design doc for a fangame that attempts to be the most "complete" FO experience, because FO is first and foremost a set of tools to build your own story in, and there's a lot more that could still be done

>>4005957
>because FO is first and foremost a set of tools to build your own story in
It was actually a canned cRPG with a story built in already!

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>>4002973
Fo1 > Fo2. I just liked how focused the story is. Fo2 is a lil overwhelming with how much stuff there is to do.

>ahhh noooo theres too much game in my game i cant enjoy it waaaaa
I hope you shit yourself to death in front of your high school crush.

For me, it's the black comedy aspect of the radio blasting cheery jingles about nuclear annihilation

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fallout (wasteland 2.0) is a fuckin bitchin setting

>>4006599
>For me, it's the black comedy aspect of the radio blasting cheery jingles about nuclear annihilation
Still doesn’t hold a candle to the montage with “We’ll Meet Again” at the end of Dr. Strangelove

>>4002321
not being able to keep 30 fps on any hardware let alone 60

>>4006638
>not being able to keep 30 fps on any hardware let alone 60
Were you on a console or something? My PC had no problems with Oblivion/FO3 at the time they came out. People modded the FPS limit for the physics to get it to play smoothly over 60 FPS. I am assuming you are not talking about the original games, which had fixed animations for which discussion of variable frame rates is irrelevant

>>4005442
>nested within dialogue trees or comes from cut content
No, not as far as I could tell or my characters could intuit. Every time you stumble across NCR encampments, you're met with a bunch of idiots who either await orders, either don't have the required resources to fix any issue at all and one in a commanding role who is wise enough to ask you for health. Primm, Camp Searchlight, The Strip, even at their own bases. You could say this is just how video games work, the player character is supposed to fix problems, but you don't see this issue as much with Caesar's Legion- certainly not with House or Yes Man who have no one other than yourself to do their bidding. The Legion is purposefully presented as a bunch of savages prohibited most useful tools, so it makes sense for the Courier to fix issues that they couldn't. The president himself is a fucking goof and let us not mention his security outfit. A wise courier would not put much faith in the NCR

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>>4007256
Ignoring all of that, the game explicitly presents to you how incompetent the NCR is by introducing Powder Gangers. If the NCR can't wrangle a bunch of convicts, then how are they expected to defeat Caesar's Legion?

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>>4007272
>The state of the Mojave, a territory that is not NCR, that is under attack by an endless number of terrorist mutt tribals, is representative of the NCR as a whole
The PG are a recent fuckup in a tense territory where the development of railroads could be a critical advantage. They're absolutely a fuck up, but as shown countless times, if it weren't for the Legion, the NCR would have already fixed this and virtually every issue in the Mojave. You cannot do much efficiently when a bunch of terrorists are doing ambushes, booby-trapping the bodies of civilians they're massacred, using children as suicide bombers and torturing and raping anyone they capture.

>can't wrangle a bunch of convicts, then how are they expected to defeat Caesar's Legion?
The convicts are not a priority, the Legion is, simple as.

Again, the NCR has flaws, but no other faction comes anywhere close to 5% of the good the NCR does, and all the things you can complain about the NCR not doing in the Mojave are directly the fault of the Legion. The very presence of the NCR here is due to the Legion forcing the locals to beg the NCR for help, because people don't want to be raped to death by Caesar's mutt Mongolian army.

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>>4007272
And to add on to your picrel, the Legion is only "winning" with shit like Nipton because they're doing nothing to help anyone in the Mojave, they are not maintaining or building infrastructure, they're not trying to be liked, they are not bringing civilization, wealth and an actual voice on what the government is doing like the NCR is. They're only bringing terrorism, rape, torture and murder. They're an army of brainwashed tribals from childhood who had their family exterminated and were forced to fight for the dementia-ridden bitch larper to not be killed themselves. The Legion is not bringing the slightest good thing to the Mojave apart from the indirect benefit of exterminating raiders, but that's not to benefit you, only themselves, and they only do so AFTER conquering the region, they have 0 qualms about helping the Omertas launch a terrorist chemical attack on the Strip, or flattering the Khans they know are helping the Fiends fuck shit up.

You're not a better engineer because you put down a bunch of bombs and made the building fall down. You're just a destroyer, and doing that after filling the building with babies makes you an insane degenerate terrorist. The Legion build nothing, they are nothing. They just pillage and kill, they're retarded and pathetic, and doomed to collapse as soon as the bitch in charge kicks the bucket.

Real-world setting with fantasy elements, as opposed to high fantasy type shit that has no grounding in reality whatsoever

>>4002933
>in the name of “balance”
The Longest Journey fans?

>>4007289
>>4007294
You really have a hard-on for everything we don't see about the NCR being great, while everything we don't see about the Legion being awful, even though they're the same standard of living with only one faction admitting it practices slavery while the other uses jingoism to obfuscate what a social shithole it is. This isn't me inviting you into a discussion, this is mean being critical of how you think because you've got some serious political blinders on that makes you conversational poison.

>>4002321
It's really the atmosphere. No matter the game, they manage to pull off the right amount of silly & serious.

>>4002933
always with the scenarios

The NCR is Rome and the 'Legion' is a barbarian horde, led by a tribal warlord. With all the political depth such a conflict entails.
The idea that people see the reverse is true is, quite frankly, insane.

>>4002927
Vegas is like sprawling suberbs. Everyone thinks of the strip when they think of Vegas but to the left of the strip and 15 is just endless subdivisions and strip malls. North of the strip is a few blocks of ghettos followed by more subdivisions and strip malls. NW vegas gets pretty empty pretty quickly, but then SW Vegas is, yes you guessed it again! Strip malls and subdivisions all the way to Henderson.

>>4002321
It's a world of violence, ugliness, and nihilism where the writers can make snarky quips about traditional Americana. This kind of thing is like crack to the typical westoid gamer.

>>4005911
>and the Kings are a local gang who refuse to submit to lawful authority
Imagine seething this hard and being BTFO by elvis impersonators.
For me it's the part where lawful authority hires outsider mercenaries to torture prisoners of war, almost as moral of an army as the IDF

Counterpoint, NCR was founded by a giga muttified jeet from interracial breeding grounds, the dreaded Vault 15, Aradesh while the Legion was founded by a white man who read books on roman empire while under the care of an anarchist librarian group.

>>4007761
Don't reply to obvious bait in the future, all it does is make you look like a retard.

>>4007761
>Accuse your enemy of baiting when you are baiting
Those Elvis impersonators are beating up peace envoys nearly to death, extorting the people for access to water, and enforce the death penalty for a petty scam at the gate. They're an unruly violent gang that acts as a supreme authority on these parts.

>For me it's the part where lawful authority hires outsider mercenaries to torture prisoners of war
You're not forced to torture Silus, he is the only one where you're asked to do anything like that, and he fully fucking deserves it, he's a Centurion. You sound like one of those (((human rights group))) complaining about Bukele rounding up the cartel members and dividing the murder rate by 100.

>Muh white man bait
What matters is the actions, the NCR just lets you live in fucking peace, all it asks is that you pay taxes that for the most part truly benefit you. The Legion was founded on the systematic eradication of local cultures via forced interbreeding and cultural genocide. The Legion isn't Roman, it's Mongolian.

All you baiting fags can do is go "b-b-b-but there are a few rotten apples in a civilization of hundreds of thousands of people!"..

>>4007761
>imagine seething this hard and being BTFO by elvis impersonators
The Kings will get themselves absolutely stomped if you don't intervene, though. Maybe try playing the game for yourself next time instead of seething about it.

>>4008056
>Those Elvis impersonators are beating up peace envoys nearly to death
Just Pacer and his personal favorites.
>extorting the people for access to water
Courier: Why charge for water?
>Tapper: If we let everyone run amok, the damn NCR would shut us down. Gotta have some way to regulate usage.
>enforce the death penalty for a petty scam at the gate
His scam is making all of Freeside look bad. Relevant to you specifically,
Courier: I want all the money you have on you. I could make it to the Kings from here.
Orris: I ought to take my chances and kill you right here, but you may be right. Here, take this. Don't think this is over, though. I'll have that money back, out of your hide if I have to.
Orris will later attack the Courier, which moves him from mere "scammer" to "extortionist".
>They're an unruly violent gang that acts as a supreme authority on these parts.
They attack Freeside thugs and the King actively has his gang find you to reward you for helping the people of Freeside.

>You're not forced to torture Silus
You're hired to torture Silus, and Boyd is disappointed if you don't torture him.
>he is the only one where you're asked to do anything like that
It's the only quest in the game that has that kind of a small story.
>and he fully fucking deserves it, he's a Centurion.
By that logic Ranger Stella deserved to be stripped down and forced to fight in the Arena at the Fort because she's a fucking elite soldier of the NCR.
>ou sound like one of those (((human rights group))) complaining about Bukele rounding up the cartel members and dividing the murder rate by 100.
Which fallacy do you want this to be recognized as, ad hominem or reductio ad absurdum?

>Muh white man bait
The post you are replying to is replying to a post whose image is race baiting by first calling the Legion "a multiracial empire". You getting upset at the person you're replying to for pointing out how the NCR is also a multiracial empire is puerile.

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>>4008225
>Just Pacer and his personal favorites.
The NCR has no way to know that, and it's not their fault the King is blind to what his right-hand man is doing.

>Tapper: If we let everyone run amok, the damn NCR would shut us down. Gotta have some way to regulate usage.
No one put them in charge, and they're harassing and extorting civilians to keep their local gang's power. No actual government would tolerate this shit.

>His scam is making all of Freeside look bad.
Sure but it still shows this gang is giving itself the power of life and death upon anyone in the area, again no government would tolerate that.

>They attack Freeside thugs and the King actively has his gang find you to reward you for helping the people of Freeside.
Yeah? Most gangs IRL do this because they need people to either overwhelmingly fear you or benefit from your presence. The King at least isn't cynical about this, he seems genuinely good, he's still a gang leader.

>You're hired to torture Silus, and Boyd is disappointed if you don't torture him.
The guy has tortured and murdered hundreds of people and delights in talking about inflicting torture, you're bitching because he's getting a few punches? This is a high-grade terrorist we're dealing with. It's saintly for the NCR to enforce any kind of rule against those animals.

>By that logic
No, you're being a retarded ragebaiter. You achieve high-rank in the NCR through heroism or nepotism. You achieve in the Legion by committing dozens of acts of terrorism.

>Which fallacy
The fucking chutzpah on display.

>the Legion "a multiracial empire"
IT IS, fucking ragebaiting faggot. Caesar directly tells you he forces interbreeding between tribes to eradicate tribal identity, racemixing is an official part of his ruling.

I'd tell you what you should do, but then you'd cry to the tranny janny to get my posts btfoing you removed.

>>4008226
You added nothing new to the conversation and you either were unable to argue my points, or stepped around them because you recognized your own faults, errors, and/or willful inaccuracies. I'm calling this argument a win for me. Do NOT reply to me anymore since this whole thing has been concluded in my favor. You would come across as petty if you do.

>>4008237
I accept your concession

>>4008237
Better luck next time!

>>4008237
Stupid little bitch how about I fuck you in the ass you Legionboo since you love getting gay raped?

>>4008238
>>4008241
>>4008244
This guy is mad.

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>>4008247
1/3
Better luck next time, retardo

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>>4008247
Nice try, fagtron!

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>>4008247
Nice try indeed

>>4008247
holy btfo

>>4008247
bet you feel retarded now, huh?

This guys so mad that “five” completely neutral and uninvolved “anons” replied to my post stating that he’s mad in like ten minutes (just like he replied to the post that made him mad three times in like five minutes)
You’re so vain, I bet you think this post is about you

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>>4008295

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>oh boy a new vegas threa-

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You bring her to Jean-Baptiste, right?

>>4008325
To make him and his sister eat their own hair? Sure.

>>4008325
every playthrough and then i make sure to send a tweet to avellone featuring her being burned to ash using one of my alt accounts

>>4008331
Post 'em

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>>4008332
can't because the last account was used to condemn dandy's world and how qwel is a pedophile enabler

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>>4008333
>can't because it never happened
Disappointing, but not surprising.

>1775152489939444.png
don't you have anything better to do than suck my cock for a (you)?

>>4008325
Nah. I play the long game and resolve her quest peacefully but make sure to steal from the Gun Runners. That way the GR assassinate both the leader of Crimson Caravan and Gloria, and their entire operation gets dismantled. It's also funny how killing the guard at the door makes Gloria forever hostile, but killing her brother doesn't.

>>4008338
>post something retarded
>someone makes fun of you for being retarded
>instead of cutting your losses and not replying, seethe about it endlessly
Shouldn't you be busy posting bait threads on /v/ with the rest of your fellow subhumans?

>>4008340
This is the way
Shame that ending requires both Gloria and McLafferty to be alive.

>>4008345
Short term medium rewards vs long term big reward. But yes it requires good self-control to not blow them up yourself. I play to make the Mojave the best place I can, so I get NCR with the best outcome I can for everything (and that means convincing the Khans to kill themselves at the Dam, giving an empire to the insane raiding tribe that has wasted every chance they've been given for a century and still regret nothing is idiotic).

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>>4008349
True. It would've been neat for the ending to take into account how the Van Graffs die, for example the 'investigation' ending still triggering if they appeared to be killed in a completely unrelated incident, but that's probably too much effort for a relatively small and straightforward sidequest. It is a shame though, those energy weapons and suits of combat armor are just going to go to waste...
>I play to make the Mojave the best place I can, so I get NCR with the best outcome I can for everything (and that means convincing the Khans to kill themselves at the Dam, giving an empire to the insane raiding tribe that has wasted every chance they've been given for a century and still regret nothing is idiotic).
Based and likewise. Though I'm a bit undecided on the Khans, having them make a suicidal stand at the Dam is cool but I often choose to either persuade them to side with the NCR or strike out on their own in order to preserve them as vendors and then solve the problem myself just before the endgame by shooting all their leaders and triggering the 'broken Khans' ending.

I don't think new vegas really took advantage of the line of thought that the NCR is an aggressor, colonizing nation in the Mojave.
So much of the NCR Bad! stuff comes solely from a position of NCR is bad because they're stretched too thin and are incompetent.

>>4008353
I have thought about the Khan issue a lot, and the suicide is the best option, considering the Khans express no regret for their century of committing crimes as evil as murdering children for fun and forcing their own kids to do so as well.

With the suicide, they remain a vendor your entire run, but are explicitly described as being an exterminated tribe in the ending slide, the Khan identity is eradicated. If you just kill them yourself, some survive and will rebuild yet another variation of the fuckers (who keep coming back despite the local hero killing them, so it's just going to be a repeat). If you convince them to side with NCR, relations eventually become tense and it's the same deal.

The only thing I sort of compromise in my run is the BoS, they're moronic and mostly deserve to be exterminated, but their base is simply cool and useful, I mostly play with Veronica when I have someone around, and their ending with an alliance is somewhat good. Still, for the real best outcome, they should probably be exterminated.

>>4008356
Because the NCR is factually not an aggressor or a warmonger. They're greedy, but they're not taking shit by force, and no, a few greedy rich bastards who have to do things in secret do not represent the NCR, the guys at Jacobstown are unmarked mercenaries and back off if you just tell them "I'm known in the NCR, you don't want word of this to spread out".

The NCR is stretched too thin, but if they weren't the ones losing lives, Easy Pete, Doc Mitchell and every NPC everyone loves would have been killed before the game even started. The NCR was invited into the region by the Desert Rangers because the Legion was unbeatable for local forces. The incompetence is a big issue, but if it weren't for the Legion, most of that incompetence wouldn't have the potential to be a serious issue. Oliver would just parade around with 60 unearned medals, and that'd be it.

>>4008356
>I don't think new vegas really took advantage of the line of thought that the NCR is an aggressor, colonizing nation in the Mojave.
New Vegas fans are secondaries who didn’t play the original games, yes

>>4007272
>Ignoring all of that
good thing then asshole that you posted a rewording of what i've just said

>>4007289
>trader in the camp is Jewish
The most vile and subversive type of behaviour you could come across in a discussion. We're supposed to believe that he only does not have a problem with the Legion because he's a (le) merchant and thus profits from conflict, rather than take him at his word that, indeed, the Wasteland is filled with degenerates and fiends and raiders and the legion makes short work of them so they benefit most people, if not at least some?
I wish I were a Rome-a-boo that I could join them every playthrough, alas, House just makes too much sense.

>entire thread is one dude replying to himself about how great the NCR is
>has a melty when everyone, including the game's writers, point out the NCR is bad
>acts like they didn't get BTFO hours ago and just repeats themselves a second time, louder
What causes this behavior?

>>4008388
The original games were mid overall and the series needed Bethesda to turn it into something worthwhile

>this rpg wasn't anything special until it was turned into a very mediocre dungeon crawler and trash collecting simulator

>>4002321
Why is the game set in Mexico?

>>4008820
Fallout 1 had a cool setting and graphics. The game itself?
Into the trash it goes
*miss*

>>4009142
Another day, another zoomer filtered by games we beat as ten year olds.

>>4009160
Old millennials to their grandpupperinos:
>when i was your age i had to play bad video games

>>4008820
No if Bethesda stuck closer to the first two fallout games it could of been something special but fallout 3 aged like a used condom and fallout 4 isnt a rpg also is a subpair base builder. Bethesda can't even get there endings as good as one and twos.

>>4002927
have you ever been to vegas?

>>4008356
Yeah, the only place where that really becomes a point of contention is the martial law in Primm and the shit going on in Freeside. The Mojave citizens just don't really interact with the NCR outside of that

>>4009424
>martial law in Primm
Non-issue, of course there'd be martial law in a town that just got destroyed by criminals, has no power structure left, and is in a region currently attacked by the Legion.

>shit going on in Freeside
Pretty much a nothing-burger desu, if anything it's the Kings and retarded locals starting shit up, because they're mad that NCR citizens can go to Vegas while they can't because of House's rules (fair to hate House for this, stupid to hate NCR citizens). You have the drug dealer deliberately poisoning NCR, the pathetic subhumans in Westside stealing water from the NCR in the same breath they tell you don't need them...

The closest thing I can think of is the drug dealer and game-rigger Keith getting executed by Parker for mocking his ex-wife.

Also an interesting thing, I looked up all Powder Gangers ending, and whereas Legion and NCR both clean them all up, House does nothing and lets them terrorize the Mojave for years, as always. Another House L.

>>4009142
Keek

>>4005442
>being known by the troopers for getting thrown out of even Gomorrah for her awful behavior
What did she do?

>>4008359
There should be an ending slide describing that the BOS betrays the NCR and sacks Hoover Dam if you have them agree to a truce

>>4009424
>>4008356
A lot of Vegas area citizens complain about the NCR being bullies, but it's rarely actually seen in-game.
>The NCR's no better. They won't burn your home and rape your daughter, sure, but they'll steal your wealth all the same... when you ain't looking.
The only smaller groups they really interact with are Freeside and Khans.

>>4009555
Trudy in Goodsprings recanting all the Legion has done but concluding it with "but maybe that's just things the NCR said to make themselves look more useful" is quite revealing on an issue: people don't know shit. The Mojave citizens for the most part just don't know what's going on, they don't understand jack, so from their tiny isolated communities they see any sort of change or outsiders as bad out of paranoia. They don't realize the Legion is truly this fucking bad, that the NCR is absolutely going to bring in massive wealth and improvement in everyone's lives.

Everything about "they'll steal your wealth" is baseless paranoia from cynical locals, who are often simply jealous of NCR citizens being on average more wealthy than them, and being allowed to enter the Strip. Like a lot of bad-mouthed things (Ulfric in Skyrim, or Kenny in TWD Telltale S2), this is simply a test for whether you will fall to baseless rumors like a retard or be capable of using your eyes to see what's in front of you and realize those NPCs you talked to were bullshitting you.

Outside of a few rich corrupt assholes like the one sending mercs to Jacobstown and maybe the guy who had his son kidnapped by the WGS, the NCR doesn't bully any innocents.

>>4009562
>the NCR is absolutely going to bring in massive wealth and improvement in everyone's lives
Uhhhhhhh yeah that’s why the NCR wants to conquer new territory, right? In their magnanimity they just want to help everyone out and make everything better, not to seize resources and tax revenue

>>4002933
>>4002927
is it true vegas has tunnel mole people

>>4009563
They're not mutually exclusive things. The NCR factually raises the quality of life massively of any place it settles, with water, food, infrastructure, trade... They tax Primm, sure, but the trading they bring makes the town much richer than before. Goodsprings can complain about paying taxes they didn't pay before, but without that they'd all be enslaved or killed by the Legion.

Keeping people happy is a great way to remain in power even if you're corrupt, it's what Félix Houphouët did in the Ivory Coast for example, he was completely corrupt and taking a ton of money from the State's reserves, but he improved the quality of life of the people massively and for it was extremely well liked.

And even if the NCR government doesn't directly want to help, it's still filled with countless people who do want to help and do so of their own initiative (many examples of that in the game), and their infrastructure and resources help non-affiliated groups do the same like the Followers, whose only good ending is thanks to the NCR. Moore is absolutely correct when she says the NCR allows people to do more than survive, actually live, with healthcare, education, safety, a working economy,

And "conquer" is a disingenous term and you know it. For every other faction it means brutal war with anyone who doesn't instantly submit. The NCR never does that to a group who doesn't relentlessly attacks them first and refuses peace talks. The NCR built the sharecropper farms specifically to convince people to join NCR, they annex nothing by force, and their distrust towards House is fully justified as he planned to backstab them from the very beginning to keep being a genocidal tyrant because he saved the place 2 centuries ago.

The NCR is 10% fucking saintly, 88% good, and 2% bad. Compared to every other option that's 98% bad, they're the obvious choice.

>>4009568
Also a big reason why I trust the NCR so much is that it's the only faction with checks and balances. It's not perfect, and democracy IRL is a scam, but the NCR is overwhelmingly filled with good people who genuinely want to help and do good. And the people have power, everything the government does is done with their approval and is a concern, it's part of why the war in the Mojave is going so poorly, because while Kimball would like to send a full army to destroy the Legion, the citizens don't support that war and wouldn't accept it.

Every other faction is: insane tyrant, insane tyrant, dictatorial Courier. Even in the worst case scenario where the NCR government would completely break down, we'd still be left with vastly improved infrastructures, technology, trade routes, and we'd see many mini-states led mostly by competent people. The good people of the NCR wouldn't vanish, and they're not powerless. Meanwhile Caesar brings an army of illiterate murder-machines, and House uses literal murder-machines.

The NCR isn't just some ruler with a different coat of paint, it's civilization, technology, actually rebuilding society instead of living in shit shacks where going outside to fetch water can get you mauled to death by geckos.

>>4009564
yes if you count the weirdos in the north vegas sewers

>>4009564
Yes, it’s true. There’s whole cities down there with hijacked power and shanty shack villages. They’re down in the storm drain culverts.

>>4009134
Because Las Vegas is mexican

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Is there any good games with the sheer amount of Build Variety and choices as NV? I've tried Elder Scrolls 3-5 and the only one I even somewhat liked was Morrowind

>>4009747
>choices
But all NV main quest have the exact same quest. You just ally or destroy a minor faction for a different major one.

>>4009799
If you're being reductive sure. But it's the small moments for me. Like during the BoS quest you can warn the ranger of the bomb collar. You don't even have get the bomb collar put on. After they strip you, you can run to a room to the left with a nearly broken super sledge than fight your way out. You don't even have to do that, they can say strip and you can say no. They even put a terminal near the entrance to hack all the turrents.
Or you know, you could have Veronica and bypass all of that.
The games not perfect, but they give a decent bit of agency on how you play it. The best example of this is Arizona Killer. There's only 1 real goal. But they give you two unique explosive checks, two science checks, a repair check, and all sorts of ways to enable killing him conventionally from providing sniper towers to being able to manually shoot down his vertibird incase he's getting away. The biggest shame is that this quest is locked to the worst route while it's more boring counterpart is in 3/4 routes

>>4009747
Maybe Dragon Age origins

>>4009747
For someone who likes Morrowind and NV, I'd say VTMB is essential. It has a bit of build/path variety and it's nowhere near as big a game, but the lore is rich and the vibe is juuuust right. Otherwise, Wasteland series has some nice plot/decision elements, some nice build variety, but again the environments are quite small in comparison. Stay away from Outer Worlds, it might look neat, but that shit is shallow garbage.
>>4009918
I tried it, but all the NPCs just bored me to tears.

>>4010256
>Wasteland series
>series
I’d say there’s approximately 99% odds you never played Wasteland, and about 50% you never played Fallout

>>4005916
>The Empire in Skyrim has lost control of 5 provinces, and is losing control of a 6th one. It is in ruins, all its nobles are corrupt and weak, major cities get pillaged by common bandits, they are enslaved to a foreign power and have done nothing but decay for 200 years. Yet subhumans keep pretending it's just about to recover and everything is fine.
You don't understand bro, the empire is totally gonna turn it all around any time now bro, don't pay attention to the fact that the entire fucking premise of the Elder scrolls series is that the Empire is doomed to fail and the Septim dynasty could only temporarily postpone the eventual collapse and that motherfucking Talos himself manifests to the Nerevarine and tells you that the empire is far too fucked up & corrupt and needs to be destroyed. Just two more weeks and they'll totally fight back against the Thalmor, trust the plan.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VIGwhzDGzIg

>>4002927
i bet it would be a desert

>>4002321
For the west coast Fallouts I really liked seeing how Civilization had crept back in and the scars of war were slowly being paved over.

>>4009747
try faggerfall unity
the unity port fixed a lot of the vanilla games skills, and the character creator itself in DF is pretty unparalleled in all of RPG vidya.
best part is, with mods, you can more or less make anything work. i had a linguist-based scholar character, with no combat skills, and she actually ended up being quite powerful. i could walk into a dungeon and just talk to enemies to get them to fight for me. but even then, most of my time was spent going around in the overworld, robbing and stealing since combat didnt actually lvl me up anyways

>>4010354
I'd say you're mostly right, but why do you gotta be an dick about it?

>>4013491
>I'd say you're mostly right, but why do you gotta be a dick about it?
*hugs* Sorry lil bro

>>4002321
I wonder if its gamers it resonated with, or just a specific kind of nerd.

There's been some other posts in the thread that seem to get it. Its about telling your own stories in a post-apocalyptic sandbox but the world setting isn't just a blank and generic thing, it has charm and a certain kind of cynical commentary on the human condition and society that threads the needle on humour without becoming silly or self-subversive (something Bethesda entries don't understand how to do).

The world of Fallout when done right (that is the Fallouts of the original two and New Vegas) is like playing a good tabletop RPG with a GM that's inspired and enthused about the world he created with a group of friends who are all equally as enthused and inspired. It is an overused term on this website, but it is the definition of soulful.

>>4013571
>the world setting isn't just a blank and generic thing, it has charm and a certain kind of cynical commentary on the human condition and society that threads the needle on humour without becoming silly or self-subversive
This really only applies to the original Fallout. Even the sequel goofed this up.

>>4013572
We each have a different threshold for that. For me 2 is perfectly fine, but Old World Blues in NV is not, even though I tolerate it as part of enjoying NV as a whole.

Then Bethesda's content is completely too generic too, though 3 had a couple moments.

>>4013572
All the classic fan mods, 1.5 Nevada Sonora, they all do it too.

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>>4003231
Independent is the deepest choice as it requires the player to justify their own actions philosophically, which I did one time against a guy avatarfagging as Kreia and it was a really good debate

Going independent is like going through the American Revolution, it's unprecedented so most assume it will fail, as most assumed America would fail within its first decades but here we are.

>>4013994
The biggest issue with independent is, assuming you actually want to do good and for the entire Mojave rather than just the Strip, there is 0 in-game basis of how the Courier would form a government, which is 100% necessary to handle the daily matters of the Mojave. You cannot talk about your plan with a single NPC other than Yes-Man, so there is no telling how others would react, but most likely with extreme confusion and seeing you as backstabbing and power-hungry.

Every single le independence NPC is shown to be a delusional moron , the Followers cannot survive without NCR resources, the people in Westside and Freeside are dirty and barely surviving without NCR, Goodsprings ,the nicest town, you can die collecting water.

For independence to have any chance, you'd need an extremely charismatic, diplomatic and intelligent Courier who'd find good assets for a government then negotiate fairly with the NCR and launch efforts to ensure the Legion cannot come back. But all of this is fanfiction stuff since the game gives us nothing. The robust structure the NCR already gives us is truly invaluable.

>>4013571
>I wonder if its gamers it resonated with, or just a specific kind of nerd.
Pretentious nerds who are eager to find something deeper in it
>so it was all about capitalism..
>sleazy fat crime boss or good guy.. such complex dilemas of the human cognition..

>>4013994
>>4014043
That's why it's a binary choice: liberal democracy and the NCR, or the Legion's slaveholding despotism.
If you remain independent or side with Mr. House you still end up helping the NCR and fighting against the Legion. Vegas ends up an independent city-state allied with NCR, instead of being directly ruled by it. It's really just a sidegrade to the NCR ending.

>>4007313
This. It got people who hated fantasy to play an RPG.

>>4015402
>This. It got people who hated fantasy to play an RPG.
Fallout was explicitly targeted at fans of Wasteland. Wasteland came out in what, 1988? If you were playing cRPGs in 1988 you were a nerd and were fine with fantasy.

>>4015402
I just like guns more than swords, man.