Unironically contender for the worst dungeon ever created in an RPG.
What's so bad about it? Besides being very gamey?
*laughs in the house at the end of time*
It's not even the worst dungeon ToB
>>4007577>gameyPretty bad already>artifical difficulty>samey locations>nonsensical story or premise>lame rewards>obviously lazy devs>unfun to navigate>>4007578Objectively the worst. Truth is km dies after the barbarian king. Curious if owlcucks will remake it. Paizo rewrote the campaign since km. Was km the first adventure path?
>>4007570its one of the better dungeons in any game
>>4007570It's still better than Durlag's Tower.
>>4007642No they first one was about rune lords or something. It was also still for 3.5e not pathfinder.>>4007650
>>4007642No, first Golarion AP was Rise Of The Runelords, which was made before PF1e actually existed yet. In those days, Paizo was still publishing content for 3.5e under WotC. PF1e didn't launch until 2009 which was more than two years later. Curse Of The Crimson Throne, Second Darkness and Legacy Of Fire were all published as APs before PF1e. Council Of Thieves was their first AP published specifically for PF1e I think?Kingmaker landed in 2010 a few months after PF1e launched. It's their sixth AP, IIRC.They published 24 APs for PF1e, ending in 2019 with Tyrant's Grasp, I think. Paizo no longer updates / maintains / makes content for PF1e, especially after Hasbro's attempted OGL legal assassination shenanigans. So everything they make now is for 2nd edition... which... is fucking awful and very unpopular.
>>4007570The thing that always pissed me off was never being able to map all areas of a map and having little small patches of black you can't get to.
>>4007654tower wasn't terrible but that chess event hahahahaha holy FUCK what were they thinking.
>>4007654I thought we all loved Durlag's Tower here
>>4007956>oh wow, a chess miniga->enemy pieces zerg rush you with lightning bolts blasting off with each step on the boardyeah nah fuck that
>>4007691They started that smol? Interesting. They are still gay though.>2Elike I said they are gay. Is it that unpopular? Pretty stupid system, that's for sure. Thought people like it. Really strange that some obscure system form the 70s survived this long and that there isn't a mathematical sound ttrpg. With ai that could've been done fast.
>>4008050One of the only times I lowered the difficulty to easiest and just zipped through it. I could see how it would have maybe worked in a turn-based approach but real-time is just a goddamn mess. Hard to tell which character is supposed to represent what and they'll just fucking chase no matter what and set off the lightning so might as well cheese it and be done with it.Only really super poorly designed thing in BG1, outside of Karoug fight. Personal opinion, but that is not fun at all.
>>4008050I understand that they wanted a similar powerful enemy like sarevok. Fight has to be cheesed by misusing potions or whatever. He has low hp.Better than owlcucks' bosses. After reaching - 1hp they hold a speech and miraculously restore 100 % of their combat ability including buffs. Guess they have toybox access.
pathfinder has no dungeon that is this good
>>4008130The two PF games aren't about dungeons, though.
>>4007956I totally forgot this was a thing in Durlag's and I must have cheesed passed it with lightning resist or off screen fireballs. What a pain in the ass that would be to do legit
>>4007758Enable cheats and then reveal area.
>>4008223I thought that's in tob?
>>4008322you might be thinking of watchers keep from tob? durlag tower is from totsc pack
Throne of Bhaal is legit one of the worst RPG experiences of all time. There's not a single fucking good thing about it.
>>4008520It’s fun for one playthrough, and ties up the story of the first two games and definitively concludes them. It has approx zero replay value though.
>>4007570>>4007578>blocks ur path
>>4008575Second anon you quoted here. That shit was so bad that I actually blocked it out from my memory.
>>4008183yeah it's all about reddit writing
>>4007578That one is like 90% just having freedom of movement prepared for the whole party>>4008575This is genuinely just unfun shit
>>4008575I've noticed this from multiple games of varying budgets, but slavs cannot make good puzzles in general.
>>4007578i am tired of pretending there is anything wrong with the house at the end of timeyes it's long, it's the final dungeonyes it's a somewhat tedious gimmick but whatever you already to do the lamp shit before and know exactly how it worksthe encounters are not overly difficultyou get your entire party right away basicallyit's not too hard or too long or too confusingyou just suck
>>4008575Is this just another lights out type of puzzle? https://www.logicgamesonline.com/lightsout/tutorial.html
>>4007642>artifical difficultyStopped reading there
>>4009266>you just suckI finished it with a solo martial. No one said it was “too hard”, it’s just famously annoying and not fun.
>>4009403The puzzles in WotR do not cohere to a consistent internal logic, and no one ever solved them without a guide, even people who wanted to solve the puzzle for fun and didn’t just look at a guide to skip it. They’re extremely poorly designed.
>>4009487True. Some of the enigma puzzles only make sense if you already know how to solve them. The last Secrets of Creation puzzle also requires that you know that the signs are numbers, which you can only learn if you to Nenios quest. Requiring a companion quest to solve a normal side quest that doesn't otherwise require her is just bad game design.
>>4008575Have you ever done the Underrail music puzzle?If you work in cryptography, it might be up right in your alley.
>>4009526There's a lot of things I didn't like about Underrail, and that was one of them
>>4008575That one isn't even that bad, just incredible tedious.
>>4009471>Anon fails to grasp gamedev conceptsKek, baby tier.
>>4009526>completely optional>unique reward>meant to be a puzzle in-universe>comes with instructions>one of its kindThere's nothing wrong about the music puzzle.
>>4009669You can't have it both ways. Do you want puzzles or not? You can't pretend you want elaborate, complicated dungeons and then complain when you get one. That isn't how any of this works at fucking all.
>>4009848I don't recall asking for puzzles, so I don't know where this is coming from. My answer is I don't. Elaborate dungeons are fine though
>>4009814>gamedev concepts*gamedev/youtuber/game design school meme concepts
>>4009729That's exactly why it's so fucking awful.It isn't hard. It isn't challenging. It isn't though provoking. It's boring dogshit that NEVER ENDS.
>>4009904Explain why artifical difficulty like 10000% inflated hp isn't artificial difficulty. FYI that's the very definition of it.
Not a part of that conversation, but I think the term "artificial difficulty" is just meaningless. If you want to say the difficulty is just HP bloat, built around save scumming, rocket tag, or just done in a way that makes things nothing more than tedious or whatever it's one thing, but "artificial difficulty" has about as much meaning as just saying it's bad, and worse, in a way that muddies the judgement. An enemy having a huge HP pool could be challenging or tedious depending on countless factors, but if under both circumstances it's "artificial" what does that designation even bring to the table?Why not just call it shit? It's about as meaningful of an observation, but more clear
