Unironically contender for the worst dungeon ever created in an RPG.
What's so bad about it? Besides being very gamey?
*laughs in the house at the end of time*
It's not even the worst dungeon ToB
>>4007577>gameyPretty bad already>artifical difficulty>samey locations>nonsensical story or premise>lame rewards>obviously lazy devs>unfun to navigate>>4007578Objectively the worst. Truth is km dies after the barbarian king. Curious if owlcucks will remake it. Paizo rewrote the campaign since km. Was km the first adventure path?
>>4007570its one of the better dungeons in any game
>>4007570It's still better than Durlag's Tower.
>>4007642No they first one was about rune lords or something. It was also still for 3.5e not pathfinder.>>4007650
>>4007642No, first Golarion AP was Rise Of The Runelords, which was made before PF1e actually existed yet. In those days, Paizo was still publishing content for 3.5e under WotC. PF1e didn't launch until 2009 which was more than two years later. Curse Of The Crimson Throne, Second Darkness and Legacy Of Fire were all published as APs before PF1e. Council Of Thieves was their first AP published specifically for PF1e I think?Kingmaker landed in 2010 a few months after PF1e launched. It's their sixth AP, IIRC.They published 24 APs for PF1e, ending in 2019 with Tyrant's Grasp, I think. Paizo no longer updates / maintains / makes content for PF1e, especially after Hasbro's attempted OGL legal assassination shenanigans. So everything they make now is for 2nd edition... which... is fucking awful and very unpopular.
>>4007570The thing that always pissed me off was never being able to map all areas of a map and having little small patches of black you can't get to.
>>4007654tower wasn't terrible but that chess event hahahahaha holy FUCK what were they thinking.
>>4007654I thought we all loved Durlag's Tower here
>>4007956>oh wow, a chess miniga->enemy pieces zerg rush you with lightning bolts blasting off with each step on the boardyeah nah fuck that
>>4007691They started that smol? Interesting. They are still gay though.>2Elike I said they are gay. Is it that unpopular? Pretty stupid system, that's for sure. Thought people like it. Really strange that some obscure system form the 70s survived this long and that there isn't a mathematical sound ttrpg. With ai that could've been done fast.
>>4008050One of the only times I lowered the difficulty to easiest and just zipped through it. I could see how it would have maybe worked in a turn-based approach but real-time is just a goddamn mess. Hard to tell which character is supposed to represent what and they'll just fucking chase no matter what and set off the lightning so might as well cheese it and be done with it.Only really super poorly designed thing in BG1, outside of Karoug fight. Personal opinion, but that is not fun at all.
>>4008050I understand that they wanted a similar powerful enemy like sarevok. Fight has to be cheesed by misusing potions or whatever. He has low hp.Better than owlcucks' bosses. After reaching - 1hp they hold a speech and miraculously restore 100 % of their combat ability including buffs. Guess they have toybox access.
pathfinder has no dungeon that is this good
>>4008130The two PF games aren't about dungeons, though.
>>4007956I totally forgot this was a thing in Durlag's and I must have cheesed passed it with lightning resist or off screen fireballs. What a pain in the ass that would be to do legit
>>4007758Enable cheats and then reveal area.
>>4008223I thought that's in tob?
>>4008322you might be thinking of watchers keep from tob? durlag tower is from totsc pack
Throne of Bhaal is legit one of the worst RPG experiences of all time. There's not a single fucking good thing about it.
>>4008520It’s fun for one playthrough, and ties up the story of the first two games and definitively concludes them. It has approx zero replay value though.
>>4007570>>4007578>blocks ur path
>>4008575Second anon you quoted here. That shit was so bad that I actually blocked it out from my memory.
>>4008183yeah it's all about reddit writing
>>4007578That one is like 90% just having freedom of movement prepared for the whole party>>4008575This is genuinely just unfun shit
>>4008575I've noticed this from multiple games of varying budgets, but slavs cannot make good puzzles in general.
>>4007578i am tired of pretending there is anything wrong with the house at the end of timeyes it's long, it's the final dungeonyes it's a somewhat tedious gimmick but whatever you already to do the lamp shit before and know exactly how it worksthe encounters are not overly difficultyou get your entire party right away basicallyit's not too hard or too long or too confusingyou just suck
>>4008575Is this just another lights out type of puzzle? https://www.logicgamesonline.com/lightsout/tutorial.html
>>4007642>artifical difficultyStopped reading there
>>4009266>you just suckI finished it with a solo martial. No one said it was “too hard”, it’s just famously annoying and not fun.
>>4009403The puzzles in WotR do not cohere to a consistent internal logic, and no one ever solved them without a guide, even people who wanted to solve the puzzle for fun and didn’t just look at a guide to skip it. They’re extremely poorly designed.
>>4009487True. Some of the enigma puzzles only make sense if you already know how to solve them. The last Secrets of Creation puzzle also requires that you know that the signs are numbers, which you can only learn if you to Nenios quest. Requiring a companion quest to solve a normal side quest that doesn't otherwise require her is just bad game design.
>>4008575Have you ever done the Underrail music puzzle?If you work in cryptography, it might be up right in your alley.
>>4009526There's a lot of things I didn't like about Underrail, and that was one of them
>>4008575That one isn't even that bad, just incredible tedious.
>>4009471>Anon fails to grasp gamedev conceptsKek, baby tier.
>>4009526>completely optional>unique reward>meant to be a puzzle in-universe>comes with instructions>one of its kindThere's nothing wrong about the music puzzle.
>>4009669You can't have it both ways. Do you want puzzles or not? You can't pretend you want elaborate, complicated dungeons and then complain when you get one. That isn't how any of this works at fucking all.
>>4009848I don't recall asking for puzzles, so I don't know where this is coming from. My answer is I don't. Elaborate dungeons are fine though
>>4009814>gamedev concepts*gamedev/youtuber/game design school meme concepts
>>4009729That's exactly why it's so fucking awful.It isn't hard. It isn't challenging. It isn't though provoking. It's boring dogshit that NEVER ENDS.
>>4009904Explain why artifical difficulty like 10000% inflated hp isn't artificial difficulty. FYI that's the very definition of it.
Not a part of that conversation, but I think the term "artificial difficulty" is just meaningless. If you want to say the difficulty is just HP bloat, built around save scumming, rocket tag, or just done in a way that makes things nothing more than tedious or whatever it's one thing, but "artificial difficulty" has about as much meaning as just saying it's bad, and worse, in a way that muddies the judgement. An enemy having a huge HP pool could be challenging or tedious depending on countless factors, but if under both circumstances it's "artificial" what does that designation even bring to the table?Why not just call it shit? It's about as meaningful of an observation, but more clear
>>4010228Your post is shit but just calling it "shit" isn't descriptive enough, faggot.
>>4011827NTA, but good point, it just makes you look like a retard, bumping threads with nothing to say.
>>4011830IKR
>>4011830Many such cases
>>4011830That's the joke, Anon.
>>4010216not him, but having gimmicks like enemies with higher than standard hp presents a different challenge than normal fights that requires you to modify your kit and come up with different tactics. the main reason gimmicks like that fail is if the game doesnt warn you beforehand or if you disregard the warnings. most of the complaints of "artificial difficulty" spikes or sections are by people who play the game on minmax difficulties without minmaxing, not realizing that theyre wasting the opportunity to prep for a gauntlet. of course there are also gimmicks that are just badly implemented or that clash with the feel of the game.
>>4007570Fallout 2's temple existsthat dumb ring dungeon from FFXV existsThe Fade exists
>>4012079>Fallout 2's templeIt takes like 2 minutes. It’s the equivalent of fighting the rats outside of vault 13. I don’t remember all this bitching about it back in the day. You can even run past everything and talk your way out of it
>>4012079>The Fade existsIts bad reputation is due the lack of replayability. It isn't that good but way far from "worst dungeon ever created".Did you ask the AI for unpopular RPG dungeons or something? Because your post reads like it skimmed reddit and parroted the most retarded and upvoted posts back.
>>4012101I used my memory, not any GenAI lists, browsing Reddit bullshit, or any other strawman excuses you are cooking up
>>4012102What did you dislike about the temple of trials?What did you dislike about the fade?Why, in your opinion, were both dungeons worse than Watcher’s Keep?Hard mode: no LLM answers
>>4012108>Hard mode: no LLM answersnot going to answer because no matter what I say, you will accuse me of using LLM
>>4012110Anon folds under literally zero pressure
>>4012113no, I don't want to waste time creating a well thought out reasoning as to why I hated those dungeons only for you to scream like a chud and go "YOU USED LLM, GET YOUR OWN FUCKING WORDS" and not even address the criticisms
>>4012083>I don’t remember all this bitching about it back in the dayI remember people bitching about it in 2005.
>>4012108Nta, but all of ToT's problems are solved by putting a fucking pipe rifle and some ammo in the first fucking room.
>>4012115>no, I don't want to waste time creating a well thought out reasoning as to why I hated those dungeons only for you to scream like a chudPussy.
>>4012108>What did you dislike about the temple of trials?boring>What did you dislike about the fade?ugly>Why, in your opinion, were both dungeons worse than Watcher’s Keep?because i said so
>>4012177>pretending to be >>4012108 just to farm bait from the chudpiss off
>>4012192pretending to be who?i'm giving my own answers in a masculine fashion.relax, chudette.
>>4012177>boring>ugly>because i said soYou were explicitly told no LLM answers.
>>4012108temple of trials haters are too stupid to realize you can just run from the bugs with non-melee combat builds
>>4012207no, i wasn't, brainlet.i play on easy mode in life, just built different.
>>4007570Pathfinder games have several worse ones.
>>4012150The irony is that you're the pussy and he's right. Any attempts at videogames discussion on this site is pointless and only newfags think otherwise.
>>4012454>"this site" is SO BAD!>I only come to "this site" to shitpost ROFLYou are always going to be new to 4chan.
>>4012102>I used my memoryAnd you picked the tutorial dungeon that only became a meme as "le hard" a couple decades after the game release, a short section that its actually cool and people only hate to replay and yet not even the worst dungeon in his own game and somehow FFXV (who gives a fuck about that one?). Weird takes and weird selection, almost from skimming unpopular topics from Reddit in some automatic fashion.
>>4012351I even pointed that out in my reply to him and he was too ashamed to respond.
>>4007654>>4007986I loved it. Played through in MP with my gf at the time. We also stumbled on it entirely by chance. It was an epic journey. Could immediately tell something was unusual with it. We definitely were underpowered for the boss and had to kite it and throw everything we had on it. Multiple tries later we managed to win.Today i realize how amazing it was to have a gf who'd play CRPGs with me, so i'll pass this lore to you: you need to find a girl who was really close to her father, who played at least some games with her, and who was kinda distant from her mother and a misfit from the local girls.
>lived long enough to now see people defending the fade and arguing people who dislike it are using LLMsholy fucking lol, all your brains are rotted into oblivion.
>>4012844>>lived long enough to now see people defending the fadeQuote one example from this thread of someone defending the fade.
>>4012844Other than no replayability what's wrong with the fade?
>>4012207and you proved >>4012115 right
>>4013474“You were told no LLM answers” in response to single-word responses was a fucking joke, you dingus.
>>4009487>no one ever solved them without a guideI solved them and wrote a guide on release. I remember around a dozen websites scraped it wholesale, screenshots and all, and made a shit ton of ad money off of it while a bunch of zero IQ monkeys called me a faggot every day as if I made the puzzles.
>>4018622>a bunch of zero IQ monkeys called me a faggot every day as if I made the puzzles.Please don’t doxx me. I’m sorry I called you a faggot
digital cock and ball torture
>>4020460Looks like a Hexen map
>>4007570The dungeon built around the crystal giant in POE was the worst of worst.>used in the hype campaign>designers had decades of case study games to see what could work and what won't>barely any writing, unique loot or treasures to make it worthwhile
>>4020572>devs halfass a kickstarter stretch goalMany such cases
>>4007578I actually liked the house except for some of the really annoying encounters like the mandragora swarms.Everything from barbarian invasion onwards was so easy and boring it was nice to have a real challenge for once. Game really should have ended there though, the lantern king stuff afterwards was such a slog.
>>4020603>mandragora swarmsMy first playthrough of Kingmaker I was a solo paladin and those things fucked me up, they'd kill me through stat drain. I dealt with them eventually but it was tedious.Rest of the house was also tedious, a "you DID take blind fight, right?" build check
>>4007570Deep Roads in Dragon Age Origins is the undisputed worst dungeon ever.As rpgc commented it once:>"the cube" but every room is shit brown and contains 1k4 darkspawn
>>4020903I replayed it a while ago it honestly wasn't that bad save for those emissary fucks wiping your party every pack if you let them free cast for even 5 seconds.
Black Mountain Mines
>>4022358It took me a while to recognize the name. Had to dig it up from suppressed traumatizing memories.>AND THAT FUCKER WAS HIDING UNDER THE THRONE ROOM FOR THE WHOLE TIME
