Whats wrong with Torment Tides of Numenera? Screenshots look gorgeous.
Threadly reminder that this author wrote Rhis.
Every attempt to replicate PS:T has been an abject failure.
>>4012768Nothing other than the fact that it has "Torment" in the name and thus could never live up to the expectations.
Oh it looks great.But the writing is shit, even by the low standards of cRPG. Now I don't even think Torment was all that it's talked up to be, but if you're going to imply you're the successor to THE cRPG lauded as having excellent writing, you really should aim to at least be somewhat above the baseline, not alternating between painfully predictable and "wouldn't it be cool if" without any narrative cohesion, not to mention filled with retarded characters that all too often act counter not just to presented behavior but any logic because the plot requires them to.
>>4012771Wtf>>4012774Calling numenera an attempt...>>4012976This. Cool setting, rest shit.
>>4012976I'm still convinced making a crpg that surpasses bgt is possible, but devs are hacks.
>>4012980>making a crpg that surpasses bgt is possibleI assume you mean PS:T, your take is delusional and there were several superior RPGs released more than a decade before Torment and there have been several superior games released since.
>>4012768Flood of boring texts that is thrown at you every second
>>4012981No, I mean the bg trilogy. Pst could be topped, too. Writing is much cheaper to buy than tech. Esp nowadays.
>>4012981What, there are better games than pst in this very genre? Name 5? If you want to name de, skip your post entirely.
>>4012768Worst combat ever, boring writing.
>>4012771
>>4012986>if you like what I don't like don't even botherWho made you the fucking arbiter or RPG?
>>4013021DE cannot surpass PS:T, because it's standing on its shoulders. If you diminish PS:T, you only harm DE.
>>4012768I liked it
>>4013137Doesn't make any senseImprovements can't be better than predecessors?
>>4012768Not much. It's decently fun, and the setting is interesting, absolutely worth playing if you're a CRPG fan.
>>4012771>There were more than a fewThis was written by an American, right?
>>4012768more like nu men era
>>4012768It was interesting, the setting was cool, and i got to make the first seethe by fusing all the castoffs into matkina
>>4012768A few things:-Writing that was both clearly subpar compared to PST and extremely verbose. At some points, multiple walls of text used to describe a scenery of a flashback that has no ulterior use, just fluff. -Arbitrary deaths from interracting with the scenery, despite being strongly incentivized to do so. It's never fun to save before you click on every button because who knows, it may trigger a laser that kills you instantly.-The gameplay was a great concept of ressource managment, by making you expend points to boost your odds at succeeding skillchecks, and maintained it for half the first act, then the game decides to just throw you free rest points rather than making you pay for it. It removes any sort of tension that made you actually careful with how you spend your efforts.
It's okay. It could have used an editor for the writing, and it got messed up during development because of miscommunication between inXile and Monte Cook Games and the CEO raiding this game's budget to improve Wasteland 2.
>>4013421>It could have used an editor for the writingMany such cases
>>4012768looks sci-fiwhat I recall is it seemed to have extremely NIH special snowflake character classes and mechanics (much, much worse than PoE with it's chanters and ciphers etc) and that mostly put me off
My personal problem with is that the tabletop it's based on, and the setting, relies fully on willing implementation of "weird for its own sake" - and that'd be fine, if not for the fact that in the video game you have no choice but to play the most boring dude in the whole fucking squad, designated plot importance aside.Like you have a guy with living tattoos that are actually his dead family, a woman surrounded by ghostly alternate versions of herself, a dude who is exactly as powerful (or "heroic" as it were) as he thinks he is at the time, and way more...Meanwhile your defining gimmick, or "focus" as Numenera calls them, is shit like "uses a shield" or "sneaks good" or "talks good". With barely any abnormal abilities involved. Like what the fuck is that? In a game explicitly designed so that every character has some weird bullshit going on, you have... a counterattack and bonuses to shield use. Wow.And don't take me wrong, there's normally at least the timeless RPG appeal of playing Bob the Fighter in the Wack Squad, but that's not what you are. You're still weird, but boring weird. Just because.Yes I know about the shit you can do later in the story, but that has little mechanical effect, only happens a few times, and while immensely powerful STILL isn't as weird as the shit your companions do/are.
I don't think it needed to take the bad parts of PST, like garbage combat or wizard (nano) being the only class worth playing.The latter is like double offensive because Jack is like the most interesting take on a rogue in a while, but they basically shit on them by having an item that mimics their core ability (get a boost to any skill for a while) almost right off the fucking gate, AND it doesn't stack with their ability or give an extra use so they can't use it at all; meanwhile the nano gets goddamn mind reading that's basically required to get the full content for one of the companions and an item that does that is stuck in the later game past the (a?) point of no return
>>4012768You should play it, anon. I dare you. There's nothing stopping you. No one is gonna try to stop you.
PST: No reason to play anything other than a wizard diplomatTON: No reason to play anything other than a (space)wizard diplomatThey will never fix this problem in crpgs, never
>>4014070They fixed it in Disco Elysium.
>>4014093"Just don't make a game with magic" isn't quite a fix.
>>4014095It isn't about magic, it's about1- Not making every interesting and useful skillchecks and dialogue options related to pure intelligence/speech/charisma. 2- if you absolutely have to have combat, don't make casters so much better than fighters, but nowadays most games manage to avoid that, and I don't really recall combat in ToN to be so caster-sided
>>4014093>Disco Elysium, the point-and-click adventure game, fixed the tendency of dialogue-heavy cRPGs to reward the player for maximizing dialogue ability and minimizing combat ability, by being a game that is all dialogue and no combat.Bravo, anon.
>>4014129nta, but it is a solutionI think there are interesting lessons to learn from what disco elysium does with social gameplay that could be applied to a more general rpg that offers both combat and social encounters
>>4014053Not true, I'll stop him
>>4014129>point-and-click adventure gameWith skills and xp and levels where your character build determine what you can or cannot do. It's called an RPG, retard.
>>4014207>With skills and xp and levels where your character build determine what you can or cannot do. It's called an RPG, retard.Congratulations, Battlefield and Call of Duty are now RPGs, retard.
>>4014208It's a known fact that the success of diablo 1 and final fantasy started an rpg-zation of videogame, later mmo accelerated that trendI'd say rogue~ is replacing this step by step.
>>4014223I think the "rpg-zation" of videogames was happening at least as far back as the nes, where we started seeing japanese developers making their arcade conversions, and even original games, more interesting for home play with additional rpg mechanics, as superficial as they were. remember that dragon quest was massive over thereI suppose it took a little longer for that trend to happen in the west, and diablo certainly had a role to play there, with maybe deus ex and bethesda's first person action rpgs having a huge influence as well
>>4014208Does hitting your target or not in battlefield and Call of Duty depends of your level and skills? Are these abstractions for the competence of your character? No. They're not RPGI swear, you retards are unable to even understand the arguments you're making.
>>4014285>Does hitting your target or not in battlefield and Call of Duty depends of your level and skills?Yes, tell me you've never prestiged before without telling me
>>4014152Why? If he wants to play it, he'll get the punishment he deserves.
>>4012768look at the character line up for Torment. No look at the ones for ToN. There's your answer, Chief.
>>4014207It's a gamebook with graphics. I guess you could call that an RPG, but it's farther away from attempting to copy the tabletop RPG experience.
>>4012768Released unfinished and had money funneled into Wasteland 2. Most of it was patched in, especially the missing character, but the problem is Numenera just isn't such an interesting and game itself comes across as a PS:T knockoff.
>>4014762>game itself comes across as a PS:T knockoffThat was the explicit design intent, so more of a feature than a bug
>>4012768Game has more than a few flaws, namely chasing the PsT themes and execution rather trying to be a good working spiritual sequel. Also having to cook up a brand new ZANY WHEEEEW setting probably hamstrung the game a lot
>>4014726DE and ToN are closer to a good tabletop RPG experience than 99% of RPGs with their endless stream of fights and random encounters.
>>4013412>-Arbitrary deaths from interracting with the scenery, despite being strongly incentivized to do so. It's never fun to save before you click on every button because who knows, it may trigger a laser that kills you instantly.Dying usually isn't permanent for the MC, you go into your mind palace and resurrect.
>>4014865>Dying usually isn't permanent for the MC, you go into your mind palace and resurrect.Anon, I already think TON is a bad knockoff of PST. You don't have to sell me on the idea.
>>4015152It's not like they ever pretended otherwise. I thought the whole thing exists because they wanted to recreate the success of Pillars with kickstarter by doing it with a spiritual sequel to PST instead of BG2
>>4015188They were pretending it was a good knockoff of PST during development.
>>4012997Barry Lyndon is a criminally underrated film
>>4014810Some people do run combat crawl campaigns. DE and ToN are choose-your-rail adventures. You have some leeway, but you have to follow the game master's specific plan.
>>4015397>combat crawl campaigns>good tabletop RPG experiencelol> have some leeway, but you have to follow the game master's specific plan.Yeah like every computer RPG ever.
>>4016610Some try to encourage unplanned solutions to get through their plan. With DE specifically, everything you can do was planned, you can't step outside it.
>>4016757>Some try to encourage unplanned solutions to get through their plan>Quote thiefThief is even less of an RPG than disco elysium. It's gameplay is 100% problem solving (and good at that, with a great ambiance, but still), you are entirely constrained to the objective the game designer fixed you and the "freedom" you have in achieving it is just a step above "oy, will I make a wizard or a warrior in Diablo?"
>>4016793>the "freedom" you have in achieving it is just a step above "oy, will I make a wizard or a warrior in Diablo?"Diablo is an RPG and Disco Elysium is not, though.
We're getting dangerously close to "everything is an RPG because you play a role hurr durr"
>>4016866>everything is an RPG because you play a role hurr durr"Except disco elysium, because, uh, reasons"The reason being, beyond the bullshit, "because it has no combat system", because the mlouthbreathing retards can't fathom a role playing game that don't involve fights as the center of every decision.
>>4017764>Did you know that the hit CD classic, "Myst" from 1994 is actually a role-playing game? Your in game choices can either doom or save the island!
>>4013421>and the CEO raiding this game's budget to improve Wasteland 2. >inXile raids Numenera to improve Wasteland 2 >Obsidian raids Tyranny to improve PoE 2 What's wrong with these niggers?
>>4012768Geneforge is a lot better.
>>4012768Animation is slow. Everything is slow; there is this "dreamy" fade to everything. Background music lowers to the point of barely being audible when the dialogue box pops up - which is 80% of the game. The writing I would describe as being verbose for the sake of verbosity, the concept of being pithy seems an alien concept. And that quickly becomes annoying; little substance compared to the amount of reading required.Combat is really bad. Though that's by design, or so they say.
>>4021042That's because the writing - generally, but not always - is simple (in a good sense), and says what it intends to convey; the substance is not veiled in two essays
>>4014129>>4014207Lack of gameplay aside, the real grip of Disco over something like Torment is writing and worldbuilding quality (compare a 4 year hastily thrown together meme world about lost eras versus the complex sociopolitical problems of Martinaise and all the funny background lore that makes you question how much of the metaphysics are real) as well as presentation. There's a lot of things you can't fault disco on, but presentation isn't one of them. Sure it kind of has no gameplay but Torment's gameplay (combat) isn't the best anyway and to say P:ST had actual combat would be to turn your brain off, there is nearly no difficulty regardless of party composition.
>>4016793The text in the image addresses your statement.
>>4014208"I'm playing a stealth sniper!" "I'm playing as a speedster gun slinger!" "I'm playing as a rocketeer!" holy battlefield just became my most favorite rpg because it has builds...damn...my normie friends are actually huge rpg fans...
>>4017764Okay let me hit you with this, Disco Elysium is an "RPG" the same way a visual novel dating sim is an RPG because what stats you pick lock you out of a girl character you can be with. you can choose between "chad" "emo" or "everyman" Chad has more athlete points and gets more dialogue from athletic girl, but emo gets more dialogue from cute library girl because he has higher 'empathy' stats everyman has balanced stats and you can work towards talking to more girls if you play it right but you might get locked out from 'vollyball girl' or library girl because he can never get his stats high enough to be 'chad' or 'emo'Now under this logic, despite that people still say that those games are visual novels/dating sims even if you can walk around and click shit. Yet retards like you are saying "n-no no it's an RPG!! The stats and stuff mean you're playing an RPG even though the 'dice rolls' are just thinly veiled excuses to make you play the game more than once to get new flavor text!"
>>4021606>>4020993Retards can't come up with a definition of an RPG that don't entirely relies on the existence of a combat system, so they all default to the dumbass falacy of "lol then X would be an rpg"
>>4021633I specifically used an example that doesn't have combat to see if you'd agree or disagree but you're so dishonest you didn't even address it. It's not an RPG, it is merely a point and click adventure game or interactive graphic/visual novel since the 'numbers' merely serve to make you play the game again and pick different options to get different dialogue like the visual novel example I gave you but you're too stupid and dishonest to gave a stance on definition but you've implied it.Since you think 'then x would be an rpg' you're admitting your stance and definition of rpg is anything that has 'builds' and 'stat allocation' and since call of duty has builds, and allocation and since roguelikes have builds, and allocations those are now rpg as well. If we let RPG be defined as that, your definition we encroach upon 'anything with a role is rpg'Now every game is an rpg since you're playing a role, see how that's retarded? Now see how it's retarded to add 'increasing numbers and builds is rpg'. Because that means if you play planetscape torment algorithms will recommend military shooters because they see you like RPGs because they fit your definition! Game keeping exists for a reason, faggot.
>>4021633>Retards can't come up with a definition of an RPGThat’s what happens in every one of these threads, yes.
>>4021756 (you)Whoops, thought I was in the “what’s the definition of cRPG?” thread. Clearly a fair amount of overlap.
>>4021633Stat growth and overcoming challenges through stats is part of the RPG experience but every subgenre has their own take on whether it's a created or fixed character, how exactly the challenges should look, etc. There's no true singular definition of an RPG other than>it's like dungeons and dragons, but playable!
>>4012980>>4012981>>4012985>Writing is cheaper to buy than TechGood writing? A deep overlap between settings, themes, and plot? Engaging dialogue that gives you both the ability to define your character's personality and examine the philosophy of other characters? Not anymore, the last games to even attempt anything similar were Disco Elysium and Disco-clones, and their usage of often lowbrow or referential humor over Planescape's more classy in-setting humor is a contentious topic around here. Not to say it can't be done, but it can't be done by committee writing without extreme difficulty and it's definitely not something that can be paid for.Surpassing both on a gameplay front is possible, but no dev really wants to make an epic that isn't irony poisoned, quirky, or focused more on presentation than catharsis. You simply currently can't have an RPG with good writing because good writers are autistic chuds who get fired for having a dick or for actually giving a shit and not wanting to sell out.
>>4012768What those beautiful screenshots don’t tell you is there’s only two planets in the game, and the second one is a disgusting gorescape inside a living creature. Have fun spending fifteen hours trying to do thoughtful intellectual questing in there
>>4023896>the second one is a disgusting gorescape inside a living creature. Have fun spending fifteen hours trying to do thoughtful intellectual questing in thereopinions vary
