>>4031460
I have no nostalgia for the bhaalspawn triolgy
It's a game I think about years later. I'm only 29, I played it when I was like 23-24 on a whim as prep for bg3 on core rules, but it's the last time I felt truly immersed in a video game like I had to get up multiple times to walk around to to mull over a decision.
The gameplay is far far far far more interesting and actually worth discussing than most 3d RPGs like gothic or elder scrolls. Music/art was instantly iconic.
Boomers were eating good.
It's ironic that I played it in anticipation for bg3 but it kinda ruined bg3 for me.
I ended up being mixed on that game and I think I would have liked it more if I haven't played the previous games

>>4031460
The main story of BG2 is extremely weak and underwhelming, not helped by the ocean of cut content and last minute rewrites. It's carried entirely by Irenicus's VA.

The side content is where all the good stuff is kept.

>>4031469
Main quest is pretty good until the fish and elf city bits
Those are awful and dull

>>4031471
The problem is the actual "main quest" is extremely short and amounts to a chase.

>front-loaded information in Irenicus's Dungeon
>literally nothing for 50+ hours
>Spellhold, which amounts to a cutscene and a few conversations,
>nothing for the next 20 hours,
>Suldanesselar + Hell which wrap up the main story

That's it. Those "Irenicus" dreams? They were made up at the end of development when BioWare realized Irencus is a tertiary character that barely appears.

BG1 is superior to BG2 in every aspect.

>>4031498
no it's not. also, they're basically one game

>>4031460
Bioware topped it with Dragon Age Origins, if we're talking about similar RPGs. BG2 is flawed but still one of the greats. Very impressive leap forward from BG1.

>>4031535
DAO was above average I guess, but nowhere near BG2.

>>4031535
>Bioware topped it with Dragon Age Origins
Disagree.
>BG2 is flawed but still one of the greats
Agree.
>Very impressive leap forward from BG1.
Disagree. It was a refinement and an expansion but not revolutionary. Nowadays I’d consider it more of a sidegrade to BG1, not better in every way, just different. Back in the day I liked it more than 1, but nowadays I’ve came around to preferring 1 over it. The epic bloat and tighter focus necessarily lost some of the “comfy low level adventuring party tromping through the woods” feel of the more open first game. And DnD always works better at low levels.

>>4031578
>>very impressive leap forward
>Disagree.
>not revolutionary
>not better in every way
Tough crowd.

>>4031590
It’s a good game, a classic, and I like it.

>>4031461
Same goes for me. I played BG 1 and 2 both for the first time in 2019 and I was blown away. Never experienced such a good RPG.

Persona 4 Golden was better.

>>4031460
>builds
lol c'mon

>>4031817
I'm not a person who likes "builds" in general, but I still find what you can really do in BG pretty boring in that respect. There's really no thought that goes into a character other than the initial class choice and your willingness to suffer through X levels of dual classing. I guess weapon proficiency too to some extent
I really consider it just a game that works as more than the sum of its parts, because there's not a lot of things about it I really like individually

File: shatner_horrified.jpg (127 KB, 1418x934)

127 KB JPG

>that cringey faggot companion with the pet hamster
Blech.

>>4032201
Also the fact its really easy to spam reroll for 20 minutes to have god stats

>>4032316
I have a love-hate relationship with that. Due to the limitations of what ability scores can do in that edition it's not that bad, and it does feel nice to be the character that rolled good stats in a very primitive sense, but I do feel like the rat that's been tricked to just keep pressing the "sometimes get cheese" button over and over.

>>4032316
>I deliberately broke the game so the game is bad
Powergamers never learn.

>>4032366
>game is badly designed
Yes.

>>4032366
The difference between rolling for absurdly high stats and just putting your relevant stats high with a decent roll is probably just a few lore points at the end of the day anyway. Of all the mechanics to complain about, I'd put it pretty low priority

>>4032382
>The difference between rolling for absurdly high stats and just putting your relevant stats high with a decent roll is probably just a few lore points at the end of the day anyway.
Not the point.

>>4032316
That's the dumbest thing in the game
>you want max stats or no?
Well damn mister I think I'll take them max stats, considering how lower stats only means more annoying game!

>>4032411
I'm tempted to just press ctrl+8 whenever I see that screen just to spite it.

>>4032382
That, and you can use items to fix/override a bunch of stats anyway
>19str belt from Ribald
>18 dex gloves from the ghouls in the sewers
>18 cha ring from Aerie's introduction
All that really matters are CON, INT and WIS, and the latter two are only useful for casters and not dying to mind flayers (where 18 is functionally identical to 16)

>>4032656
Con also improves 3 of your saves as a dwarf/halfling and 2 as a gnome, and I think you need 18 to get the full 5 bonus (but it also can't take your save below 0 before bonuses, so there might be some class related reasons you don't actually need 18), but I might be wrong. Also if you start at 18 and collect the tomes/tears of bhaal/lum the mad shit you could get to a point where you get regeneration from high con (I think that starts at 20) which is pretty convenient.
Dex on the other hand barely does anything after 18. I think you need to get to like 21 or 22 to get another AC point
As for charisma, I think it's just a handful of dialogue choices and slightly better quest rewards. I don't even remember any significant cases outside of some early game bg1 stuff.

TWELVE, FUCKING, YEARS!

https://rpgcodex.net/forums/threads/12-years-of-baldurs-gate-trilogy-modding.156787/

>>4031460
Neverwinter Nights 2 is the greatest of all time.

Half-orc assassin or Half-orc fighter/thief for my next playthrough?

>>4033122
Having to live with thief saves and thaco forever is just something I prefer to avoid. If I'm playing one I generally would prefer to have it be part of a dual class or multiclass. Fighter levels also makes use any item more fun

Custom party with three paladins and three clerics.

>>4032857
it's great, but what way is it better than bg2 come on

>>4031461
same here. i played it when i was 20, 8 years ago and there's nothing that compares imo. only three rpgs that immersed me as much were morrowind, vtm:b and ultima 7. but bg 1 and 2 are the ultimate crpg experience.

>>4033303
>it's great, but what way is it better than bg2 come on
Better multiplayer, all I can think of. Or maybe he hates 2nd ed and loves 3rd ed.

>>4031460
It was mediocre and hamstrung by the infinity engine being hacks of hacks of hacks of hacks to the point it makes the Fallout 3 engine look like assembly code.

>>4034571
buzzword buzzword buzzword buzzword buzzword buzzword buzzword buzzword

>>4031578
>And DnD always works better at low levels
>>4031472
>The problem is the actual "main quest" is extremely short and amounts to a chase.
Both pretty much sum up my thoughts. BG2 is a still a good, sometimes even great, game but the first game still stands above it by a long-shot.

For me, the flow of 2 was basically this
>start game and get some lore dumped on me about Irenicus and that I got kidnapped somehow
>Imoen gets kidnapped and I'm dumped into a massive city with a million things to do and companions with timed quests (that also bring you to areas only accessible through them)
>game half telling me to explore half telling me to hurry up since Imoen is captured and getting tortured
>headcannon that she is fine but just being captured so i'm able to do all of ch2 content which takes 40-50+ hours
>barely none of the side content involves story, so just dicking around for awhile
>side with vampires to progress and take out thieves guild very quickly
>spellhold section feels awkward and is quick to progress, get some info finally on why Jon is doing what he's doing
>fish area is quick and boring
>underdark area had some cool ideas but didn't quite hit the mark, not much told about Jon's motives still
>Suldanessellar feels very shallow/rushed, but finally get some explanation on Jon
>stop him, go to hell which again feels extremely rushed (although the concept was good)
>game ends
At the end of the day, I just didn't really care about Irenicus whatsoever as a villain. Stealing my soul felt like such a weak hook to try to get me to care about the grander story. When I think about the game, I think about doing a million side-quests in chapter 2. When I think about BG1, I think about the big journey I went on with my party all throughout the lands uncovering mysteries, solving problems for various factions, etc. I still think BG2 is a fine game but I still vastly prefer 1 over it at the end of the day.

>>4033122
Fighter/thief.
The damage bonus from having high strength isn't multiplied by backstabs but the weapon proficiency bonus is. F/T should have a bit more staying power too.

>>4031578
Bg2 focusing on side quests with meat on them and companions literally shaped all RPGs going forward.
You take a bg1 side quest which is go to an area and get into a fight get the reward go to the next vs a bg2 where a NPC runs up to you and it's multi stage with a few locations with least 2 different outcome and rewards and it's like oh wait the bg2 one is how like every game after goes is crazy

>>4041161
>Bg2 focusing on companions literally shaped all RPGs going forward.
>and it's like oh wait the bg2 one is how like every game after goes is crazy
Though I still like the game, every modern cRPG aping BG2's formula is an absolute monkey's paw curse on the genre.
>devs now spend significant amounts of time and effort on their donut steel OCs and make them integral to the story
>ability to create a custom party falls by the wayside in many games, either non-existent, or devs are actively hostile to it (since it implies rejection of their companions) and requires clunky workarounds
>game's focus shifts from adventuring to a ridiculous plot written by failed tv/movie writer rejects about the chosen one saving the universe
>less exploration, more stumbling from spectacular setpiece to spectacular setpiece
>players now expect cringy romance in every game, culminating in "BG3" being a faggotry simulation with a viral marketing campaign about bestiality, featuring one of the developer's self-insert characters
>younger players now expect full voice acting because they're illiterate and reading is hard
>D&D itself is now actively hostile to its original fanbase of nerds, now extremely casualized and (((woke)))

>>4041248
I don't disagree with you that their wasn't some negatives to it, but I'm just saying bg2 quest design is like how modern games do it.
Even when you walk back to the quest giver and they run up and give you more information for a last minute twist on the situation which like every RPG does constantly
That's just bg2

>>4031460
Its not even the best RPG of its year.
It doesnt have the best RPG cast, not the best RPG quests, not the best writing/dialogue, certainly not the best combat, gameplay or level design, not the best art direction or visuals, not the best soundtrack, not the most reactive, not the most freedom, not the most depth, not the most choice & consequences, not the most replay value.

BG2 is a mediocre game that has aged poorly, it has shit tier gameplay, boring slog main quest, its extremely long and tedious, it has a lot of bad quests, it has a lot of bad and unrealized characters, the dialogue is juvenile and amatuerish and feels like kidergarten compared to PST, the story is shit compared to Xenogears, the cast is terrible compared to FF9 and those are all games that came near its release, it released the same year as Diablo 2 which has much better gameplay and replay value, it released the same year as Deus Ex which demolishes it as a thought provoking artisitc game and has far superior game design as well. Like this Bioware slop has never been anything more than 6/10 on a good day and with today's many new games and RPGs this game has very low value and borderline nothing interesting to offer.
If you consider this game as the best then you exposed yourself as a prime Redditor trash who never evolved past 18 years old edgelord phase 1 dudebro gamer.

>>4042048
>choice & consequences
Stopped reading here

>>4042048
>the story is shit compared to Xenogears
look, i agree with most of what you wrote, but that's a bannable take.

>>4031460
From a nobody to a Demi-god, and every bit of the journey feels logical, and all the progress feels earned.

Nothing else has surpassed it yet, and all modern western rpgs are derivative from it.

>>4040131

Wow DISAGREE.

Irenicus is a fantastic villain and the game really builds him up at the start with all the evil shit in his laboratory, him arrogantly kicking the shit out of the Cowled Wizards, etc.

The fact that Imoen was kidnapped is handled elegantly by having both her AND Irenicus taken captive by the Cowled Wizards, meaning you don't have to feel too guilty about time spent on sidequests - if Irenicus had grabbed her, said "I'm taking you back to my rape dungeon" and poofed out of existence, you'd be acutely aware of the need to find them as fast as possible but this approach gives you leeway.

The side content is fantastic, it is the meat of the game, doing dozens of varied D&D quests, learning about the Forgotten Realms mythos, just constantly discovering cool shit and the scripted events and timed quests really make you feel like you are in a living, breathing city.

The game changes after you head out to Spellhold and becomes more like Icewind Dale - and that's a good thing btw since as you said, you can easily spend 60 hours hoovering up every last crumb of Ch2 content.

Fish area is just fun killing high level mobs.

Underdark is fantastic, doubly so if you have Viconia in your party, triply so if you are romancing. The insight it gives into her attitude is exceptional.

BG2 is a nearly perfect game, the only shortcoming is the lack of foreshadowing for Suldanessellar and the Tree. I think there is just one mention of it by a pirate in the Docks area, could've used a few books of lore and Irenicus diaries to set it up more.

>>4045784
>meaning you don't have to feel too guilty about time spent on sidequests
this is just horseshit to justify your opinion and you know it lol. it's fine to like the game, but at least try and be objective about it.

>>4031578
>>4040131
>And DnD always works better at low levels
I don't care for this sentiment. I like playing games with high level DnD because to actually do that in the tabletop is always a fucking chore, while video games do the work for you with the worst parts. Also I don't think it's a coincidence that many of the most popular DnD games (or campaigns within them) are ones that go into high level stuff.

>>4045846
I'm serious. The game lets you know that Imoen is in a magical prison run by an arm of the Amnian government. By doing so, the game is implicitly telling you that Imoen isn't (so far as your in-game character knows) going to get 1 finger cut off for every hour of game time that passes until you rescue her.

>>4045846
>>4047692
Maybe he's roleplaying a carefree guy
>nah she'll be aight for a month or two

>>4047692
I don't know. I was probably 12 when I first played the game and I never believed the cowled wizards were in control there since they clearly had nothing they could do to stop Irenicus

>>4047813
You will CEASE your shitposting and come with us!

>>4047955
I CANNOT BE MUTED
I CANNOT BE BANNED
UNDERSTAND THIS AS YOU SEETHE, EVER PATHETIC, EVER JANNIES

>>4031460
Honestly the combat becomes an unengaging routine, which favors being pre-emptive instead of reactive, meaning savescumming is super effective. In that way it's probably rewarding for folks who like replaying games, planning out memorized encounters ahead of time. But the game wasn't really built for tactics.

That said my first playthrough of BG2 was really fucking fun all around.

>>4048751
yes, you can break encounters by engaging in fights without talking to them. this is a very simple thing to fix, though - stop being a faggot and play the game the way it was meant to be played. you don't HAVE to abuse broken mechanics in video games. you do it because you're a pussy who can't stand losing.

SCS has been installing for an hour and it's still only on smarter mages...

>>4045784
I really like the game, but I think Irenicus as a villain is largely carried by his voice actor doing a great job. There are some good ideas behind his goals, backstory, and motivations, but the game doesn't execute them particularly well, so he falls a bit flat in that regard. He's also a pretty underwhelming opponent mechanically. He's only really memorable because some of his lines are delivered really well.

>>4053771
You post sooner than I had anticipated.

File: Neera.png (2.25 MB, 1222x1221)

2.25 MB PNG

I played BG1:EE for the first time recently and I enjoyed it. Neera was my favourite companion, even if her gameplay was wildly unpredictable. I was going to play Siege of Dragonspear before BG2:EE but I read that's it's trash for a variety of reasons. Does anyone think it's good or will I have dodged a bullet by skipping it?

>>4053945
If you want to play a game made 16 years later by literal gamergate writers at the height of ESG who are clueless about the setting, plot, characters and level-appropriate monsters, go ahead. Otherwise skip it and pretend you didn't waste 5 bucks on legitimizing their fanfic.

>>4053945
>Siege of Dragonspear
It's good

>>4054046
Lol

>>4053945
If you liked Neera then you might actually enjoy SoD considering both are Beamdog additions.

>>4054650
I know Neera was added to BG1 in the enhanced edition, but wasn't that because she was an original companion in BG2?

>>4055163
no quirky chungus Neeera was added in both games by beamdog

>>4055164
I didn't know that. She felt like a natural addition in BG1EE. I assume the hafl-roc Dorn, the monk, Baeloth the drow wizard and perhaps others were also added by Beamdog? Tbh, I didn't really like the classic companions like Minsc, Jaheira and Khalid. I ran Neera, Imoen, Yeslick the dwarf cleric, Kagain the dwarf mercenary and Ajantis the paladin.

>>4055172
>She felt like a natural addition in BG1EE

lol, in a game where companions have almost no content or voiced dialogue and very short quest. A fully voiced, quirky millennial humor OC like Neera with special animated introduction and BG2 tier quest with player sexual romance didnt seem out of place to you? You just didnt have point of reference and didnt pay attention.

>>4055172
The added companions are closer to what the companions are like in BG2

>lol sod is good
>lol neera is good
>lol old stuff bad
fucking normies...

>>4055163
U wot m8?

This game is objectively total crap. Its like 90% rushed and cut content, it introduced cringe romances, it introduced broken pre-order fomo bonuses, in introduced the whole pre-buff and direct your blob into other blobs thing. I can't imagine anyone that isn't a complete schizo and retard having a single positive thing to say about this game. As soon as someone praises BG2 I know something is wrong with them and that they shouldn't be listened to.

>>4031460
It's my favorite old-school RPG. There's been other games that have come out that have better combat or better story, but for some reason playing this game is very comfy. Part of it is nostalgia I'm sure, but I get the urge to play it once every year.

>>4055263
My deepest apologies for not knowing the companion roster of a game I have not yet played, good sir.
>>4055179
>lol, in a game where companions have almost no content or voiced dialogue and very short quest.
True. I did consider they simply liked some companions more and thus put more work into them - Minsc, Neera, etc. The dwarves also bickered quite bit when they were in the party together though, and Yeslick was rooted in the story through the Nashkel mines, his former clanhold. Some others who were original talked lots too.
>A fully voiced, quirky millennial humor OC like Neera
She didn't feel that "current year", quirky or tryhard funny to me, beyond being a wild mage high school dropout raised in a forest.
>player sexual romance
This is not a bad thing?
>You just didnt have point of reference
True, I suppose.

I'm probably going to stick SoD then and eventually go straight to BG2.

>>4055263
Ah, quoted the wrong post. My reply was meant for the anon below you. Your reading comprehension of the posts in this thread could use some work, however.

>>4055613
yeah, dont really care what you think. normie on.

>>4055602
>playing SoD
So your opinion is worthless.

>>4055667
>lol sod is good
I asked if SoD was good. Most people here seemed negative about it. I don't know why you think people said it was good.
>lol neera is good
Yeah, I liked her character and playstyle. People like different things. I hope that's allowed, arbiter of rpgs.
>lol old stuff bad
This thread is about how old stuff is great though?

>>4055690
Skip SoD, I meant skip. I hope the rest of the sentence made that clear.

>>4053945
If you play Siege of Dragonspear, you will permanently ruin one of the greatest works of digital art for yourself.

Baldur's Gate is a perfect three-course meal:
Entree: BG1
Main: BG2, Shadows of Amn
Dessert: Throne of Bhaal

It is meticulously crafted and as close to an Epic as digital art can be. A first playthrough of Baldur's Gate 2 is a transcendental experience, on par with seeing the Mona Liza for the first time.

By playing Siege of Dragonspear, you ignore the chef and you ask the guy that cleans the toilets in the Michelin restaurant to take a fat shit on your plate. You then proceed to eat that fat shit between BG1 and BG2.

>>4057591
There's nothing perfect about Throne of Bhaal

I enjoyed the improved AI of SCS and wider variety of spells that mages and priests get, but I admit I refused to play mage chess after awhile and just got Keldorn to dispel everything (I didn't choose to install the option to nerf it). Fuck mage chess

>>4057591
I think the Mona Liza is overrated but thanks for your analysis, looking forward to BG2 then.

>>4057755
Throne of Bhaal is what it needs to be: a dungeon crawler that pushes the levelling system and Infinity Engine to its absolute limits, with a wink to thank you for spending so much time in BG1/BG2.

>muh... but... my favorite influencer said that Icewind Dale does that
None of these people have actually played IWD/IWD2.

Yes, ToB would have been better if it had a riveting story and exploration, the same way a chocolate mousse would have been better with some chocolate flakes on top. But it does its job perfectly well. The main course is BG2.

>>4053945
I liked Neera (and Dorn) in BG1:EE. I played Siege of Dragonspear and it was dog shit like everyone says and Neera became really annoying. Also, she started dating someone else between SoD and SoA because I guess ruining Safana in SoD wasn't enough for Beamdog.

>>4058299
BG2 has a perfectly fine ending without ToB, so arguably its not even necessary to play it. Everything that happens in ToB is ignored anyway if you decide to try BG3.

>>4058557
>if you decide to try BG3
why would anybody do that

>>4059456
Because it's a fun game and you (faggot) like to be "le contrarian" on 4chan.

>>4057591
You're completely wrong. BG2, despite being a wonderful game, is just one giant sidequest and has nothing to do with the Bhaalspawn Crisis storyline.

You can go BG1 -> ToB and, aside from missing the party members' storylines, be completely up to date with the wider story.

>>4058557
>BG2 has a perfectly fine ending without ToB
Are you serious. BG2 has no ending, it literally ends with a mysterious cabal planning the doom of the main character. You couldn't signal "to be continues" any more if you tried.

>>4060561
hi swen

>>4060565
And if they hadn't put in that cinematic the ending would have been perfectly fine.

>>4060623
No, it wouldn't, because it closes off nothing of the overall Bhaalspawn storyline.

>>4060564
I didn't even consider the bhaalspawn stuff during BG2, then ToB begins and I'm like "oh right ok"

>>4060676
>I didn't even consider the bhaalspawn stuff during BG2

Which was a result of the massive amount of cut content. BG1's ending cinematic is literally portraying how there are multiple Bhaalspawn around. Then nothing happens in BG2 on that front until the game reminds you of it at the ending cinematic.

>>4060678
>>4060676
>cont.

It's also BioWare's tradition of "the middle game is completely disconnected from the first and third."

>>4060678
>Which was a result of the massive amount of cut content
Source for cut bhaalspawn content?

>>4060681
Various old, defunct forums where members of BioWare would actually post + actual emails I had with them back in the day. There used to be a time when they would just write you back.

As a fun fact - remember that dream scene in Spellhold where Imoen says "he has shown me how to make it [The Bhaal Essence] vulnerable?" The planned reveal was supposed to be it was Cyric aiding Imoen covertly, but that was completely cut and relegated to a single cameo in ToB.

>>4060690
Remember anything about bhaalspawn content?

>>4060692
1. The obvious one - Imoen wasn't supposed to be one at all and was supposed to die in Spellhold. This was changed basically last minute.
2. As a result they needed someone to take HER soul as well. So Bodhi suddenly became Irenicus's sister. As a result, her storyline was changed drastically because...
3. She wasn't supposed to always betray you and was a valid choice in the Guild War. Plus...
4.... she was planned to be a romance. You can still see it in the awful novelization, since it's based on the original script.

>>4060695
>1. The obvious one - Imoen wasn't supposed to be one at all and was supposed to die in Spellhold. This was changed basically last minute.
I've seen David Gaider saying he doesn't recall any plans to have Imoen die there, and he has said one plan was to have Imoen turned into the monster form and attack the elven city.

But I'm interested in any sources for these claims.

>>4060701
David Gaider wasn't the writer for BG2.

>>4060716
The lead writer? No, he was not.

Ever? It's possible.
In the near future? Absolutely not.
We're going through some sort of period of cultural death and decay, especially in the game dev space, that such an earnestly ambitious project with such easily attackable subject matter that sticks to and refines generic YA fantasy tropes instead of "subverting" them that no, there's not even a snowball's chance in hell that the current year devs could make anything coming near to topping it. It would end up either as a soulless imitation or a cynical subversion.
AAA studios make games for shareholders and Modern Audiences™ (whatever that means) and are basically steered by MBA types who don't really give a shit about games apart from being another vehicle for financial speculation. The devs are there just to toe the line and do what they are told. Also the "Big IPs" have ended up becoming anchors around their necks for any creativity for multiple reasons.
Indie studios are a crapshoot to begin with, but even if one were to somehow have both the creative integrity and the resources to make something great, it's very unlikely they could get together the perfect storm of talent that could create something that special. Both the creative side and technical side of creating something like bg is baffling when you look into it. The amount of effort is something you just don't see anymore. The devs weren't flunked-out IT guys, political activists, nepohires or failed writers but had actual careers (in the case of bg, medical doctors) they could go into but instead chose to work on what was essentially a passion project. Very different stock than the majority of modern devs.
The only hope would be to get extremely lucky with an AA studio with enough resources that for some reason chose to do such a niche project and had enough talented people to pull it off. You can hate Expedition 33 (pls no derail) but at least they were competent with the resources they had.

>>4060925
E33 is kind of a good example of the perfect storm since it included both passionate novices, somewhat experienced gamedevs and people succesful in other highly (and more) competetive fields, a good mix which resulted in success.

>>4060925
>>4060967
PoE 1&2 had all the resources needed (okay, talent is debatable) but dropped the ball creatively, ending up with a dull and sterile feel to it.
It's one of the most painful /vrpg/ ironies but also goes to show that you can't just brute force something special into existence.

>>4060999
call me crazy but I really think the extremely fluid and responsive sprite models and paperdolls play a much larger part in the feel of Infinity Engine games than often given credit for. 3D models just never work the same.
Also divine triples checked.

>>4061006
I'd love to see cool spritework like that in some new crpg

>>4031472
While I loved it back then, what puts me off is how narratively-logically, you should immediately rush the story instead of doing the side quests. The money is easy to gather.

But if you do, you are too high level for the side stuff and related loot once you come back. The game really is built with the assumption you sit on your ass letting Imoen wait in the ugly insane rapist's hands

File: are you gonna tell me a s(...).jpg (42 KB, 249x381)

42 KB JPG

>>4031578
>“comfy low level adventuring party tromping through the woods” feel
I loved that.

>>4032316
Ponder that back then we didn't have autorollers.
stat totals around 92-93 took TIME (fuck, what a waste of time it was).

>>4033147
>thief saves and thaco
>not thief number of attacks per round

>>4041039
>The damage bonus from having high strength isn't multiplied by backstabs
wasn't it multiplied in the original BG1? IIRC giving Coran the gauntlets of ogre power was pretty nice even if he had ass 3x multi

>>4041248
>viral marketing campaign about bestiality
bear video was funny and everyone can laugh at the silly pervy game even when we didn't play it.
If it makes you mad, it's a you problem.

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48 KB JPG

>>4058514
>and Dorn
FUCK YOU
FUCK YOU, anon
RRRReeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeee

>>4060565
derp, I frogot about that completely over the 25 years

>>4060701
Well, let's just say that when writing a story, the first draft and later-abandoned ideas in it aren't the secret best version.

Imoen was last-minute addition in BG1 too btw. They realised that gameplay-wise, there is lack of good-aligned thief early on (though dunno why neutral one aka Safana would be a problem, after all, you are asking for a criminal why fret over alignment). And they probably also made her for the role of stealth non specialist wizard companion which was another thing missing in the game. I was proud to have found about that and exploited it before I found out BG2 canonicised it.

IIRC they threw together her lines from some unused bits that were supposed to be an NPC. I guess the trollops and plugtails part is there due to that? Funny how she evolved into a popular important companion.

>>4061006
>call me crazy but I really think the extremely fluid and responsive sprite models and paperdolls play a much larger part in the feel of Infinity Engine games than often given credit for
I also didn't like the character models in PoE, but I think they just weren't made particularly well and clashed with the backgrounds. I think it's actually the background's fault partially, because the idiots rendered it in low resolution and never put out higher res patches.
But the character models didn't have much soul or charisma.

In Kingmaker and WotR, the models are simple but blend into the (actually 3D-rendered, so it is a different approach from PoE) world better. So I don't think sprites are necessary though they could look great perhaps.

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>>4064349
PST sprites and the character picture 3D renders were kino (that high-class harlot render, man)

>>4064867
This one actually has a source, writer Luke Kristjanson
>Imoen's popularity was a surprise, mostly because she didn't exist. What's that mean? Her character was a late addition to fill a non-psychotic-thief gap in the early levels. We had no recording budget left, so I assembled her lines by editing voice-over left from a scrapped demo. The original character was a guard named Pique. That's why she has no standalone confrontations / interactions with other party members, which makes her relationship to the player seem closer, and led to making her a half-sister in BG II. Make enough happen, and people see their own patterns. Blunt force content.

>>4064867
>I was proud to have found about that and exploited it before I found out BG2 canonicised it
Xzar actually makes a really good cleric too if you give him a WIS tome

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10 hours into BG2, I went to the Wild Mage sanctuary added by the extended edition. Nalia is an original companion, but this feels like it was added later. Can anyone confirm?

>>4071663
no, shes OG char

>>4071663
Beamdog:
>ummmm we can’t change existing dialogue but that doesn’t mean we can’t add new dialogue, sweety

SCS for BG1 with anything related to mage duels sucks dick.
>hurr they automatically have 20 pre-buffs up at once so your fighter-thief can't assassinate them hurrr

>>4071836
SCS sucks.

>>4031471
you can actually skip sahuagin city depending on how you handle some bits of Spellhold with the captain. its better to do it though because of the extra loot and exp.

>>4071836
>>4071839
I like the improved AI of SCS and the wider variety of spells that mages and priests get, but honestly I just use inquisitor dispel to get rid of mage protections so I don't have to play mage chess. If I don't want Keldorn in my party I just make someone in my party an inquisitor or add the kit to my character using EEkeeper.

is it true NWN was despised upon release for being simple and straight-forward versus BG2?

>>4072107
I don't know if I would say it was despised. It's not really the same type of game, though. I heard more negatives about Pool of Radiance.

>>4072107
NWN was popular for its module editor and its multiplayer persistent worlds
BG2 is a single player RPG
They’re orthogonal
BG1 even has a NWN teaser in it. “Lord Foreshadow”

I keep bouncing off BG1 and 2 because they're so fucking ugly compared to the maps and sprites in Icewind Dale 1.

I remember seeing a project in which someone was trying to do AI upscales back in like 2023 of the maps and backgrounds for BG1 which looked great, but they never completed it and since then nobody else has tried despite the tech being light years better now.

The other problem is just how bad party movement is, but that's not an exclusive issue.

That's a pretty wussy reason to not finish the games. Here's the attention you crave.

>>4072107
"Despised" is a strong word but there were accusations of diablofication and campaign just being a demo for the editor. Hordes of the Underdark was praised a lot though.

>>4032431
>press ctrl+8
Thanks for the tip! No more rolling for me

>>4040131
Basically this
And also the million side artists always interrupt you while you are in the middle of already doing something so it breaks the flow and feels annoying as fuck

>>4042048
I wanted to disagree but I found no reasonable objections
You are actually right
Also dungeon design is trash

>>4047692
It's really irrelevant because why should I care about Iomen at all?
It's just a lame ass plot hook on a railroady theme park story

>game crashes in intro dungeon
>game crashes when selecting "load game"
A corrupted save one hour in? Maybe the universe is telling me something.

>>4074289
I've played the BG games on and off since they came out and I have literally never heard of a corrupted save in any Infinity engine games, ever

>>4074289
Is your game modded?
June 23 patch broke everything for me and I had to do a clean reinstall.

>>4074558
>June 23 patch
What fucking patch
The studio has been defunct for decades

>>4074585
I assumed you are playing EE.

>>4072233
oh no someone was talking about the game! woe is you, retard.

>rtwp with bad writing
Fuheh, imagine if the games came


out in the opposite chronological 'batch' order (you can replace the graphics along with it, so let's say BG3 is now "Baldur's Gate" in the 90s and BG1 and BG2 get released as "BG2" and "BG3" in the 2020s with 3-4 years apart from one another). Yalls would be screeching how EA Edmonton is destroying a bellowed old classic on every level.

>>4074558
I am actually on the original version, with the Gibberlings bugfixes. Thinking of buying the enhanced editions though.

Who are your favourite companions in BG2, including the EE? I'm in chapter 2 and haven't met everyone yet, but I'm running:
>Anomen
>Viconia
>Nalia de'Arnise
>Neera
>Mazzy Fentan
I never saw the appeal of Minsc (do people like him?) and found Jaheira and Aerie's bickering and banter annoying.

>>4076872
It's gay as fuck (and I'm not gay), but I think the most comfy playthrough I've had was a female Paladin that romanced Anomen (I was curious how it played out), along with Imoen and Nalia. Dope party composition, too. Paladin for damage/tanking, Fighter/Cleric for damage/healing, and two mage/thief dual classes for slinging spells (mostly fireballs) and shooting arrows/bolts. Never bothered finishing ToB, though. Did some of the trials and fucked up thinking I could get away with some stat boosts and didn't realize I was a fallen Paladin. Like a retard, I overwrote the earlier save, so I was boned with no way to redeem at that point.

>>4076872
Jaheira, Minsc, Yoshimo, Aerie, and Anomen is what I'm playing now.. again. Feels comfortable. I wish I had a 7th slot for Valygar.

>>4076872
My dream team is
>Anomen
>Jaheira
>Keldorn
>Nalia
>Jan
But I tend to switch them up with each playthrough.
Right now I'm doing a playthrough where I rush to rescue Imoen, and my party is
>Jaheira
>Minsc
>Yoshimo
>Anomen
>Nalia

Oh my goodness BG2 is the savescummiest game I've played. I struggled through the planar prison dungeon and it was constant confusion spam topped with - fucking I don't know - mass Hold and Petrify and Death and I think there was a Dominate in there too.

Even if I know what to expect, am I seriously supposed to fill my spell books full of those damned prevention spells? How often am I going to need unpetrify? I'm tired, boss.

>>4077427
Just use Korgan. His rage makes him immune to most status effects and even when he's not outright immune, his saving throw bonuses from being a high CON dwarf mean he will usually shrug it off anyway.

>>4077427
Dispel Magic / Remove Fear / Remove Paralysis are all worth keeping memorised. If you can't deal with that, you're going to have a very bad time.

>>4077443
I had Minsc go berserk after a snake mage = still got stunned for fuck's sake lol, whatever happened there
>>4077450
Remove paralysis is useful, remove fear too. At least they work when needed. Dispel is annoyingly unreliable coin toss. Succeed or reload.

Against the tanari I carefully prepared Anomen with Free Action and Chaotic Command, but I didn't remember the demon Hold to affect my whole party who then get promptly fugged in the ass.

It's all right. It's over now.

>>4077485
>Succeed or reload.
Or just deal with the fact that you'll have a confused unit for a while. It's very rare for it to fully fail when your party is mass disabled.

>>4077496
Sure if it's just one unit and the situation is salvageable, why not

>>4076872
I like Minsc. This retard's genuine passion for adventure is always welcome in my party.
Jan is my favorite. Great utility and incredible stories to tell.
Can't wait to kick Anomen out once I'm done with his quest. He reeks of late Bioware.
It's a shame I'm gonna have to leave Viconia behind because of her horrendous stats and my party already has 2 better clerics.
Aiming for Aerie, Minsc, Korgan, Mazzy, Jan as my final composition.
Avoiding Beamdog's qurik chunguses like a plague. Having to endure two forced interaction with Neera and still being unable to refuse her quest is infuriating.
>Jaheira and Aerie's bickering
Yea, that shit's very awkward.

>BG1
Ajantis
Minsc
Branwen
Imoen
Dynaheir
>BG2
Keldorn
Minsc
Anomen
Aerie
Nalia -> Imoen

>>4078279
Corrupted Anomen, right?

>>4078364
Nope, teach him to not be a dickhead and grow into a worthy knight.

Seems like a lot of people dislike Anomen. I for one like his arrogant douche personality, it's entertaining. It's hilarious when he fails his paladin test and spergs out. He's also in terms of power one of the best characters in the game. S tier for me

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>>4078469
I like Anomen and Cernd. I don't like Aerie, Viconia or HD.
Jaheira is the only viable romance.

>>4078562
I didn't know there was anyone on this planet that likes Cernd.

>>4078746
He's just a guy, and Shifter is really powerful in SoA. I don't play ToB so its poor scaling at very high levels isn't a problem.

I met Keldorn and got more of Viconia's backstory. She tried to become a neutral, isolated version of Drizzt but peasants tried to murder her. Keldorn's personal quest was a bit grim but really delved into what it means to be a paladin. His wife ended in the dungeon and her lover on the gallows. These things and others made think about the evolution to fully voiced companions like in Mass Effect and Dragon Age. BG2 is at least as good with its approach and mostly text-based infodumps. Maybe less is more in some fields if the writing is good and the characters are compelling? You don't need a fully voiced companion, but they can be very good (though Mass Effect had more of this than Dragon Age).

>>4078823
It's been said before, but BG had just enough voiced lines that you got a feel for what the character sounds like and can read the rest of the text in their voice.

>>4078823
>You don't need a fully voiced
But I wish BG2 was, because I enjoy their acting and voices.

And they could talk without pausing the gameplay

>>4078842
Bro, your dialogue choices?

>>4078823
>>4078835
It's been downhill after BG2 both in terms of writing and in terms of presentation. Your interaction with companions became extremely formal and formulaic. We can never have oddities like just letting Keldorn go one quest after meeting him anymore.

>>4078843
What about them?

>>4078400
Maybe it's just me, but he still seemed a bit of a dickhead after his promotion. He seemed to become extremely smug. Not smug in a malicious way, but in a supremely virtuous "i am righteous" way.

>>4079019
>The wicked flee when no man pursueth.

>>4079030
I probably just need to play it again. I swear I remember him lecturing Keldorn, who has been a paladin far longer.

I have restartitis
Sorcerer
>fun at first but then I notice I just fireball everything and spell selection seems narrow
Mage
>i memorize only spells that don't cause damage, which seems pretty weak and party is taking a lot of damage and rest
Might make a compromise and start a cleric. Or a thief!

>>4079171
I honestly fight it hard to play anything else once you go for a fighter/mage multi or berserker mage dual class. Arcane spellcasting is so superior to diving spellcasting in this game, plus you're a good fighter as well

>>4071839
>>4072039
>install IWD spells with SCS
>mages suicide bomb themselves with Vitriolic Sphere
>spam Lance of Disruption
tiresome
but Tactics Remix is even worse because that bard bitch in Beregost who wants you to murder those 3 guys instantly prebuffs with stoneskin, improved invisibility, mirror image, minor globe, minor deflection, etc. etc.
there is literally nothing a low level party can do except run to an inn, rest, then come back out and gank squad her, and that's not just fun

>>4079576
Multi and dual classes are maybe even too powerful for my taste

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>Face red dragon in Windspear Hills
>Place Neera and Nalia just beyond the beast's line of sight
>Spam Cloudkill and Acid Fog multiple times
>It actually worked
Throwing Cloudkill or lightning into a room and closing the door is also my go-to tactic for encounters. It does sometimes break questlines if there are innocents in the room though. Collateral damage made me restart Neera's questline and lost like 5-6 hours of progress because I relied on quicksaves.

>>4079038
There was some banter between them but I can't find a screenshot or didn't make one. It's after Anomen is knighted. Keldorn congratulates him and he sort of apologises for being brash and arrogant, which Keldorn attributes to his youth. They seem to get along.

If I played and really enjoyed BG3, can I go back and play BG 1/2 without it feeling underwhelming because of BG3 lore drops? Like will it still blow me away if I'm not going in blind and have a vague idea of who Jaheira, the guy with the invisible hamster, and Bhaal are?

>>4082934
>If I played and really enjoyed BG3, can I go back and play BG 1/2 without it feeling underwhelming because of BG3 lore drops?
You'll have BG1 spoiled for you but not BG2 and maybe not ToB. Aside from that, if you "really enjoyed BG3", I would wager that you will probably not like the original games. In my experience, most people who liked BG3 either didn't play, or played and disliked, the originals.

>>4082934
I haven't played BG3, but the stories in 1 and 2 aren't anything special

>>4083053
I meant to say, don't worry about them being underwhelming BECAUSE you've played BG3

>>4082934
kek don't even try, you won't like them tranny boy

I got fed up with the janky party management on BG1, so I started soloing with a bard who cheesed the love out of some side quests, and is now level 6. The first corpse I looted dropped an Invisibility scroll, so this playthrough must be blessed.

But now I'm at a crossroads, shall I recruit companions and form a party? From what I gather, companions max level at recruitment is level 4-6, so now would be a good time. I'm just worried I will again tire from lugging a whole party around all the time.

>>4083116
Soloing with a bard sounds extremely painful.

>>4083140
It was extremely cheesy and savescummy, an amount of kiting, and ridiculously long strings of missed hits.

>>4083191
it's just that bards and thieves are absolute dogshit in 2e

>>4083259
I don't know about 2e but in BG they seem balanced enough, playing with a party, the intended way.

>>4083259
INT Bard is pretty decent in the early game. Their spells' effects scale faster than real mages because of how quickly they level up. He'll have a hard time soloing at BG2 levels though. Tenser's Transformation will fix his THAC0 but he'll always have shitty APR.

How in the world do you deal with these GOD DAMN ETTERCAPS?

>>4083364
Glitterdust works pretty well

>>4083367
Oh yeah, I need to get that. Horror probably would have worked too.. but this had me learn that I can buff my skeleton summons. Four casts of skeletons and every buff and debuff I had got me through the spider brood mother cave, after 5 attempts.

>>4083381
>Four casts of skeletons and every buff and debuff I had got me through the spider brood mother cave, after 5 attempts.
The best advice someone gave me regarding BG1 is this: If you ever get stuck, drink all your potions and spam your wands.

>fighting a ghoul in a narrow hallway
>one party member gets poisoned
>wtf
>where is she
>she's returning from another insane pathfinding detour, probably sprung a trap while at it
>sigh
>heal her up
>AUTO-PAUSED: ENEMY SIGHTED
>she had gone to aggro the dungeon boss
>boss starts casting a spell
>Yes - Roundabout [to be continued]
Get me out of this hell hole..!

>>4083466
that final line gave me a chuckle
tard wrangling the pathfinding is essential to the experience (or rather something you'll get used to)
slightly related random PSA: You can rotate your party's facing by right-clicking.
Just saying it since I played for a while without knowing this.

>>4083381
Fear is effective, but really annoying unless you're in a confined space

>>4078222
>horrendous stats
that's why she always gets crom faeyr

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>>4083413
>and spam your wands.
You should be doing this all day everyday anyway because the game lets you. BG1 is full of wands of fire and you can find like 4 copies of one gift lost that not only can be worn by anyone but are also recharged for pennies. You can and should open every single combat encounter with 6 6d6 fireballs on frame one.

>>4082770
These portraits are so fucking repugntant.

>>4083902
If you have good pickpocketing you basically have even more infinite money and wands than normal, but maybe a solo bard would have some limitations with that. I don't remember the numbers you need.

I used to hate Baldur's Gate, the city I mean, but this time I left my companions at Elfsong tavern and I'm exploring with boots of speed and revealing the maps with Clairvoyance and now.. The city is quite enjoyable. I just have to be careful not to accept difficult quests.

I have managed to get three copies of the Kondar bastard sword. I also got Biff the Understudy as a party member, but when I dismissed him and saved, the game crashed.

That iron throne fight is way too brutal

>>4084097
I got it. Everyone else had died fucking horribly (in mere seconds), with only two men left standing, a true duel of fates, and my guy just barely came out victorious. I stood up, clapped and yelled "kino".

Now the walk of shame.. Where can I get resurrections in this damned city. Or should I roll with it and roleplay this absolutely devastating outcome?
Damn it Viconia was so close to leveling up too..

Does Anomen need to be in my party for his quest's timer (second part, already killed his dad's rival) to advance?

>>4084354
They generally don't need you to have the party member with you for the countdown, just for the event itself to trigger. Pretty useful for getting a little extra exp from the companions you don't want to use, since you can just add them and remove them a few times over the course of the game.

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If BG2 is so good, why do I prefer the portraits of IWD?

>>4084900
Because IWD has the best portrait art of any cRPG.

>>4084900
IWD has better portraits and spell icons and effects and in general more coherent visual style than BG2

The amount of mods released in the last decade is both amazing and ridiculous

>>4084900
Icewind Dale has such a superior style, setting and aesthetic that it's ridiculous.
It's more interesting, mysterious, dangerous, and the journey takes you deeper into the wild.

>>4083905
They are the old portraits with different colour saturation though? Or is it because the main hero is a negroid?

Would BG portraits be considered woke if they came out today?

>>4085987
Good morning saar.
I can recognize that disgusting greasy AI slop look even from a tiny thumbnail. Color saturation my ass.

Is shapeshifter druid in BG2 bad or just "minmaxer bad"

>>4086056
he is the worst character by far in just about every metric
>bad class
>bad stats
>bad story
>bad personality
>bad writing
imagine wasting a party slot on him when Edwin, Viconia, Jan, and Korgan exist

>>4086056
Limited ability to improve yourself with items will always backfire

>leave candlekeep and off to friendly arm inn
>YOU HAVE BEEN WAYLAID BY ENEMIES AND MUST DEFEND YOURSELF
>bandit fires a single arrow
>THE MAIN CHARACTER HAS BEEN KILLED. YOU MUST RESTART THE GAME.
Rerolling

>>4085987
>They are the old portraits with different colour saturation though?
They are absolutely different. Look at them.

>>4086056
Minmaxer bad in SoA, actually bad in ToB.
They have decent damage and incredibly good AC for their level with no item requirements, but by the time of ToB enemy THAC0 is too good for AC tanking and everyone has access to godlike items so they lose all their advantages.

>>4086141
>roll fighter with 18 DEX
>wear full plate
>large shield
>two kobolds archers simultaneously roll a 20
>dead

>>4086392
Those blast points… too accurate for sand people

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>>4086392
>things that never happened

>Tarnesh - Casts Magic Missile
>Player - Damage taken (5)
>Player - Damage taken (6)
>Player - Death
>THE MAIN CHARACTER HAS BEEN KILLED.

The only bullshit gotcha in BG1 is Shoal the nereid, scripted unavoidable death-by-conversation with a neutral NPC who walks up to you. Everything else is a skill issue.

>>4031578
Agreed. BG1 was way more comfy and had better atmosphere. BG2 was too over-the-top

>>4086428
Kill her on sight you fucking noob

>>4086428
The whole "poisoned you in your sleep" quest is pretty infuriating, but I guess that's of a different nature

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>>4086051
>>4086165
Looks like you're right, but I still prefer the modded ones. See the blurry screenshots I took. I don't really care if AI was used.

>>4086141
The beginning of BG1 was really hard and I would reload every time someone died because resurrecting people was very expensive. Once you pass a certain threshold it gets a lot easier and you can take revenge on mobs of enemies.

>>4086946
100gp x level isn't so bad, but the time it costs, and the hassle is too much for some of the cheaper deaths.

>>4086428
>Since the Enhanced Edition's v2.5, Gorion's Ward will not die but – unless a save vs. breath is made with a penalty of 2 – lose all hit points but one and fall asleep.
Wtf I love Beamdog now.
Also let's not forget about getting struck by lightning.

>>4087421
>Also let's not forget about getting struck by lightning
The lightning is just a cosmetic animation and does not do any damage. Did you even play the game?
>Since the Enhanced Edition
Oh.

>>4087421
They made some welcome changes to the game

>>4076872
My Dream Teams / My fondest teams I've played
>Ajantis / Khalid
>Yeslick / Fighter-Cleric Dwarf
>Branwen / Jaheira
>Coran / Branwen
>Xan / Imoen -> Coran
>Human Abjurer / Xan

I want to try Ajantis, Half-Elven Cleric-Mage, Tiax, Dual Classed Mage Imoen, Xan and Edwin one day.

>Korgan (I wish it could be Keldorn) / Korgan
>Mazzy / Human Blade
>Half-Elf Ranger/Cleric / Viconia
>Viconia / Cernd -> Sarevok
>Imoen / Jan -> Imoen
>Edwin / Edwin

The Evil characters are just too powerful and well-written for me not to enjoy their presence.

>>4088651
>"my sexy sister has been kidnapped. i need a team of hard bastards to rescue her and teach that wizard a lesson"

>>4088982
She’s only your half sister so it’s okay

>>4072107
The original campaign was mid at best, and 3e was rather controversial at its debut because of content inflation and god-awful balance.

>int 18
>you have failed to scribe this spell to your spellbook
>reload
Why was this ever a thing

>>4089363
>buy Int potion at the temple
>stack enough INT to get 100% scribe
easy

>reach 20 reputation
>restored as ranger because I killed a guard in BG1
>Viconia calls me drow slurs and leaves
>Keldron gets her spot in the group

Anyone played an enchanter through 1 and 2? Wondering if I'll regret missing out on fun spells from evocation.

>>4089430
https://baldursgate.fandom.com/wiki/Specialist_Mage

>Enchanter gives up arcane Evocation spells such as Magic Missile, Chromatic Orb, Agannazar's Scorcher, Fireball, Incendiary Cloud, Melf's Minute Meteors, Black Blade of Disaster, Bigby's Clenched Fist, <Minor Sequencer, Spell Sequencer, Spell Trigger>, <Contingency, Chain Contingency>, Web, Mordenkainen's Sword, Death Fog, plus Limited Wish, although it doesn't belong to a certain school.

>>4086412
>he doesn't use item revisions to remove critical hit immunity from helmets
you didn't beat the game

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>>4089363
>>int 18
>>you have failed to scribe this spell to your spellbook
85% chance. Game's manual lists the same probabilities as the AD&D second ed player's handbook.
>Chance to Learn Spell is the percentage probability that a wizard can learn a particular spell. A check is made as the wizard comes across new spells, not as he advances in level. To make the check, the wizard character must have access to a spell book containing the spell. If the player rolls the listed percentage or less, his character can learn the spell and copy it into his own spell book. If the wizard fails the roll, he cannot check that spell again until he advances to the next level (provided he has access to the spell).

>>4089861
I always suspected the chance is higher than they say because I could probably count the failures I've seen on one half across a shit ton of playthroughs

>>4089983
>one half
One hand

>>4089983
I've had bad luck with scribing. I still remember one string of misfortunes that seemed to end when I finally found a Web scroll, but then Dynaheir fumbled it
>BITCH THIS IS THE ONE THING YOU'RE SUPPOSED TO BE GOOD AT
>No, no, it's fine, we'll find another one, surely, let's just move on

>>4089723
>carefully avoids using the term mod to pretend modding is the standard way to play the game

>>4090041
well, she's an Invoker and Web is a conjuration spell, that means she has a -15% chance to learn it

>>4090087
Are you sure?

BG1 (original)
Cleric/Ranger multiclass
>cleric spells
>druid spells
>ranger combat proficiency
>stealth
>turn undead
Druid
>berries
And yet I'm still inclined to go druid for the RP and maybe continuing on to BG2 that has better druid spells.

>>4090693
and cleric/rangers get the specialization on enemies too

Picked up an old BG2 save and I've got over 5 grand in gold despite being basically right out of the tutorial dungeon.
I usually go full RP, but this time I want to manage reputation to keep Viconia, Edwin, and Korgan around the whole game. What's the least invasive way to do that (i.e. not random slaughter)? And does your rep shift much in chapter 4/5 where you need to compensate for it before leaving?

>>4090849(me)
I just remembered the Slayer transformation. I always ignored that because of the reputation hit, but that's obviously at least half of the answer to my question.

>>4090849
>What's the least invasive way to do that
"Fail" a pickpocket intentionally?

>>4083367
>Glitterdust
Shiet, apparently this spell is in BG1 only in enhanced edition

>>4091036
Many such cases

>>4091143
Them editions are on my wishlist now

>>4086056
Minmaxer bad. Viable and a bit better than a base druid imo but there's better options out there.
The werewolf forms are better than the standard druid forms and EE gave it some buffs. It doesn't scale with level (besides a big jump at level 13) so it is good for some stretches of the game and then falls off compared to martial classes.
Ignoring that they're still alright. The armour restrictions mean they are limited to the backline when not in werewolf form but a single classed druid shouldn't be acting as your tank anyway.
The druid spellbook is good and they get it untouched. Insect plage in particular is game breaking.

The downsides come when they are compared to fighter-druids or the avenger kit. Fighter-druids scale a lot more smoothly with combat capabilities and can stand on the front lines all game long. Avengers get some slightly different losses compared to the shapeshifter that also push them into the backline caster role but for that they get some good extra spells and their own unique shapeshift forms that have some useful resistances and abilities.

>>4091153
You’ve been able to freely port BG1 into the BG2 engine with mods for decades now, no need to pay money to Beamdog for the privilege of new bugs and shitty OC

>>4091333
It is strange how people act like Tutu wasn't a thing for a long ass time. Unless someone really loves the shaman class or their added companions for some reason, there's basically no reason to bother with EE

>>4086412
How exactly does critical hit immunity work?
I assume it stops the damage from being multiplied but what about the hit connecting?
Is it still a guaranteed hit, does it become a guaranteed miss or does it just go through the normal hit calculations as a roll of 20 instead?

>>4091411
Good question. I had always assumed it meant it auto-hits and does normal damage, but I don’t have anything to back that up.

>talked to a knight in the Planar Sphere after finishing the quest to see if he's got anything new to say
>it readded "Inside the Planar Sphere" to my jornal as active quest with nothing but his tip about fish people
AAAAAAAAAAAAAA
Well, my journal is already stained by forced Neera quest I'm never going to touch so whatever.

>>4091333
Imma pay money to Beamdawgs

>>4091411
If it works like 3E (which is far from given), the automatic hit from a natural 20 is mechanically separate from a crit's damage multiplication, so if you have something like Two-Handed Style that lets you crit on a 19 it doesn't give you more automatic hits, it just multiplies your damage more often. Critical immunity protects you from the damage, but not from the automatic hit, because natural 20s always hit.
The text for the Critical Strike HLA kind of implies that's how it works too:
>A high-level warrior's intimate knowledge of vital spots on opponents allows him/her to, once per day, concentrate all of the attacks in one round to strike a vital area every time. With this ability, every attack roll made in the next round is a natural 20, a critical hit.
I'm sure something in ToB is crit immune that you could test against with that HLA.

>>4091411
>>4091428
Don't you have the combat log on? Pretty simple to deduce from there

>>4091815
I'm a simple man. I put helmets on my warriors and clerics and leave them off thieves and mages, and move on with my day.

>>4091837
Critical hits always hit, and they do double damage if the target isn't wearing a helmet.

Keep your helmet on (or mirror image) and stay safe, bros

>>4031460
>dull, simplistic character progression. worse than even later bioware entries and especially compared to contemporaries like the fallout games
>dull, simplistic combat mechanics and encounter design. even more so than earlier offerings like the ssi games, wizardry or betrayal games. even the more mainstreamed bioware offerings usually offer at least some more complex combat encounters
>relating to this, the game offers next to nothing outside of combat encounters. quest and area design is simplistic and mostly consist of flat, small areas with a combat encounter tacked on. again much worse than something like fallout and especially newer games
>storyline is pretty much as cookie cutter as it gets with bloated prose
>game is bloated in general with far too much redundancy, especially in terms of companions and combat encounters that don't evolve in terms of complexity
It's like a 2/10 and that's mostly due to having good music and art.

>>4092093
Midwit reviewer final boss

>>4092093
Fellating later Bioware games for better complexity of progression and encounters than BG2 is fucking insane considering how most of them are very direct downgrades from BG2.

>>4092100
Not an argument.
>>4092109
Dragon Age or Mass Effect, rudimentary as they are, objectively offer more freedom and choice in developing your character. There's also a far greater density of combat encounters with non-standard mechanics and at least some application of verticality.

>constitution book didn't raise Viconia's health
Bros... What the heck does it do then

>>4092140
Go to your game manual and look at the tables in the back and the constitution table will make all things clear to you.

>>4092200
Damn constitution <15 ain't finna do nuffin

>>4092093
>>4092117
Ok, what game do you consider to be a good RPG?

>>4092117
The only choice you get in Mass Effect is what kind of guns to cuck yourself out of on character creation (including completely cucking yourself out of any semblance of gameplay with space wizard). Anything you do on level up is purely for flavor.
Combat encounters are completely meaningless except the DLC Batarians fight that throws you into an open area so you have to kinda sorta maybe consider your positioning a bit and move around (the absolute bare minimum for a shooter). Mass Effect's GoW-wannabe combat is so dull and shitty that the concept of encounter design simply does not apply.
Mass Effect is not a game. It's a movie with barebones TPS minigame and RPG-flavored menus.

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>PLEASE WE GOTTA HURRY TO DO MY QUEST OR I WILL LEAVE YOUR PARTY AND KILL MYSELF
>okay now let's take 2 weeks long nap to actually resolve the quest

Is the side content in BG1 worth playing? Ulcaster, Firewine, Ulgoth's Beard

>>4093608
Yes. There are some neat encounters.
Although Ulcaster is kind of a nothingburger with obnoxious layout.
Ulgoth's Beard and Durlag's Tower are part of the ToTSC expansion so visit them in the late game, there's fuck load of content there.

>>4093616
I did Ulcaster ruins. It's a short, plain maze for low level parties with very minor loot. Checking out Firewine next.

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>>4093589
>it's not actually based on in game days but calls for actual 2 hours real time before triggering next step
Jaheira can go to hell.

>>4093635
>>Firewine
>plain maze again
>pathfinding causes a character to backtrack
>into a cleared room which now has respawned 30 kobolds
Absolute pinnacle of 90s RPG slop. Now I know why the dulrag dungeon was a big deal. BG2's dungeons were a HUMONGOUS improvement.

>>4092496
Fallout is pretty much the platonic ideal of the crpg.
>>4093585
And yet, even such a rudimentary system offers more control over development than the BG games.

Look I'm not saying that Bioware's other games are good, they're not, but the BG ones are still their works. Certainly even more if we look at IE games and the works of the much, much more talented Black Isle team.

>>4093712
>Fallout is pretty much the platonic ideal of the crpg.
Fallout 1?

>>4093712
Fallout does generic encounters vs noname bandits and rats MUCH better than BG's retarded basic attack spam but that's also all it has to offer. BG, especially 2, has proper bossfights, gimmick enemies and rival parties.
BG progression is very frontloaded and revolves around big milestones like dual classing, party composition, centerpiece spell or gear. It lacks steady stream of dopamine hits from stat allocation but choices it does offer matter a lot.

>>4093828
Having commandable party members and magic already makes BG's combat more interesting than Fallout could ever be, and is part of customization.
There's really no two ways about it.

>>4092224
akshully it increases the amount of hours before fatigue kicks

>>4093608
FYI, Ulgoths Beard is very good but slightly broken and frustrating in BGEE due to a really hard boss only being weak to certain weapon types.
>>4093667
Correct, BG1 essentially doesn't even have real dungeons.

>>4093961
>he forgot about the urban man’s dungeon

>>4093961
Candlekeep catacombs was a good dungeon. The quality difference makes me think Nashkel mines, Ulcaster and Firewine were made early in development.

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Beamdog is guilty of a number of different crimes. Here are the major ones.

1. The Enhanced Editions are essentially a collection of free mods that had existed for nearly twenty years. Beamdog gathered them all up, slapped "Enhanced Edition" on it and resold it as a new product. There's very very little in the Enhanced Editions that wasn't already out there, and most of it is stuff you don't want (like obnoxious character outlines).

2. The games didn't sell so well and the originals were still far outselling them, even twenty years after their release, so Beamdog had EVERY digital distributor stop selling the originals and ONLY sell the Enhanced Edition. If you want to buy a digital copy of the originals now, they're "bundled" into the Enhanced Edition. Now these scumbags can claim sales from people just wanting to buy the originals as their own.

3. The infamous 600+ bugs on launch. The game is still riddled with bugs (as even a perfunctory glance over their forums show) but the fact that it took nearly two years for them to get a game that had been working fine for 20 years to reach playability after launch is telling of their wild incompetence.

4. This is where we get to the ones that really piss people off. Beamdog couldn't just remaster the game, they had to fuck with the content too. New dialogue for existing NPCs like Jaheira, Viconia, Safana, Kivan, et cetera was written in to make the characters more progressive and leftist friendly. Beamdog shills will argue that "adding content isn't changing content XDDD" but it is when the new content changes the core personalities of the existing characters. This is in addition to adding a slew of their own LGBT (hitherto there were none in Baldur's Gate) NPCs, all flooded with OP attributes and magic items to encourage people to play them despite their cancer.

Anyone know of a video with someone beating BG1's final boss without cheese?