Discussion:How do we feel about save scumming in RPGs?I.E. reloading past saves to optimize battles or dialogue to ensure the desired outcome for your character or the story.For me: usually on first play through I like to make choices and live with the consequences, unless I literally walk into an ambush and cannot live through the encounter without some strategy.If you are committed to the 'role' do you ban yourself from acting out story decisions from a place of perfect knowledge of outcomes? Obviously in second or third play throughs this becomes harder, unless you are feigning ignorance.
>>4064856I usually hold save scumming until a game bullshits me first.I'll also use it to see the alternate outcomes to big choices so I don't have to replay the game just to see the scene the other way.
>>4064856I savescum dialogue choices because too often the choices are polarised far beyond what is presented...>"You need resources and we will need extra workers to produce them, we shall take your prisoners and put them to work so that we may both benefit...">"Sounds like a fair deal" [agree]>"We cannot abide slavery" [disagree]Slavery bad mmmkay... >[disagee] "Slavery is unacceptable. Your people will die by our hand for making use of such practices and we will take your resources by force. If your women and children freeze in the winters to come so be it! Where the hell did that come from. This shit happens far too often and it's like the devs punish you for not agreeing with them.
>>4064856RPGs should attempt to move on from the shitty save scum designs
If a game forces me to savescum and doesn't respect my decisions, its a bad game. Fail states should exist, but they should not disrupt your entire experience.
>>4064907>I usually hold save scumming until a game bullshits me first.Same, generally I try to just roll with things as they come. I pay attention and if I missed some detail fair enough. What will get me to savescum is a game that regularly throws negative outcomes without any telegraphing anything to the player, or shit like half way through every other encounter they just spawn in a bunch of powerful enemies behind you again if they telegraph this ahead of time, fair enough, I really only see savescumming as a way to mitigate shitty game/encounter design.
>>4064856If you don't want me save scuming, add an ironman mode. Games that aren't designed around an ironman mode but is easily broken by savescumming are awful.
>>4064856I am an adult man. I'm not going to play an RPG multiple times. I savescum on bad rolls and to see all dialogue/decision outcomes before going with whatever one fits best with the character I am playing. I also looknat wikis/subreddits and leak the minimum to make sure I don't miss anything worthwhile that the game has to offer before I play.
>>4064921Branching dialog in RPGs is stupid more often than not.
>>4065341You're just an autist.
>>4065676Maybe he is. But RPG fans who forgive terrible game designs like branching plot from dialog choices on the basis of "roleplaying" are lower-status humans.
>>4065682>my choices shouldn't affect the game state, actually
I consider it a personal choice and don't really give too much of a shit for the most part though I consider it something to avoid, but I really hate it if a game feels like it was built around it like Underrail or whatever I make an exception for dialogue though, because sometimes you can't really tell what the tone of the choice was supposed to be.
>>4065341>I savescum to see all dialogue/decision outcomes before going with whatever one fits best with the character I am playingNOOOO YOU CAN'T ROLEPLAY IN YOUR ROLEPLAYING GAMESTHIS IS /VRPG/ WE DON'T DO THAT HERE REEEEE
>>4065687>dialog choices are the only choices that affect game stateThis is why I look down on you. You have no taste or appreciation for videogames or RPGs.
>>4064856>If you are committed to the 'role' do you ban yourself from acting out story decisions from a place of perfect knowledge of outcomes? Ironmaning CYOAslop is retarded. I'm willing to commit to systems-driven roleplay (aka real roleplay) like Crusader King. Not to a game of telephone between me and the devs.I won't go out of my way to check all outcomes but if the vibe is off I'm hitting that load button immediately.
>>4064856Basically, you shouldn't ever be compelled do any actual savescumming. Either power through or just stop playing and watch a youtube playthrough or whatever.Savescumming to "optimize" outcomes means the player is a arrogant and cowardly piece of shit who can't handle basic and marginal losses.Savescumming to bypass legitimately bullshit design is almost valid... except at that point you should realize the game is shit and just refund the game. Like, why play the game if the designer has clearly demonstrated their incompetence? Everything you might like apart from the game is all on youtube or wikipedia.
In Baldur's Gate 1 there's an early encounter where a player likely has 2 level one characters facing an enemy who is likely to disable both characters with one spell and kill them, resulting in a game over.That's where I really started questioning this shit. What is the designer thinking the experience is going to be.(I forgive BG1 because back then RPG developers were clueless about everything, just making shit up. New frontier.)PS inb4>it's not even hard you just reload and then-Shut it, bozo
>>4067020>In Baldur's Gate 1 there's an early encounter where a player likely has 2 level one characters facing an enemy who is likely to disable both characters with one spell and kill them, resulting in a game over.I’ve heard this complaint several times on this board, and I don’t recall him being that difficult back in the day. Mostly him casting mirror images, wading into melee with his staff, then getting chunked. You can even recruit the FAI guards for help, and Imoen comes with a wand of magic missiles, too.
>>4067067Horror
>>4067092Ok, you done quoting Col. Kurtz at me now?
>>4064856If it's something like the Russian Roulette game in Lisa, then yeah I'll savescum. In a game with permadeath I'm not wiping out potentially my entire party to get one admittedly pretty good new member.
If you used save states, guides, fast forward or rewind, you didn't beat the game. Not only you cheated the game, but also yourself. You brag about your "achievements" to others, yet deep down you know that it was all fake. You didn't experience anything, the challenge, the frustration, the overcoming, improving your skills. You just took a glimpse of what the game has to offer, the same level as "beating a game watching someone else beat it on YouTube". Even a crown made with fake gold, still shines from far away. You cheated not only the game, but yourself. You didn't learn. You didn't improve. You took a shortcut and gained nothing. You experienced a hollow victory. Nothing was risked and nothing was gained. It's sad that you don't know the difference.
>>4067238funny how even if you're playing pain mode where save points are one use each, you can still absolutely save scum this because they put one right before it anyway. Its like they actually wanted you to save scum it and just thought itd be funny to give you the chance to randomly lose someone if you wanted
>>4067279Dingaling himself has admitted to savescumming the roulette game because there is no secret to your chances, it's literally just a 50/50 coin flip
>>4067257haha savestate goes brrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrr
>>4067257>my standards are everyone's standardsretard
>>4067279>>4067238I think arguments on savescumming go out the window when it's truly just random chance and nothing else. There's no skill, no learning, no challenge, not gitting gud, when it's just Two-Face holding up his coin and saying "heads you live, tails you die" before tossing it, then even your mom would have the same result...or the opposite result, due to nothing on her end.
>>4067003>Savescumming to bypass legitimately bullshit design is almost valid... except at that point you should realize the game is shit and just refund the game. Like, why play the game if the designer has clearly demonstrated their incompetence?Did you accidentally stumble into the wrong board? We don't do competent design here. We cream our pants over flavor text and dialogue stat checks, call it "roleplay" and proclaim shit like >>4067020 as an undisputed masterpiece.
>>4067396Bro we beat Tarnesh when we were children. He is not a difficult fight. You just suck.
>>4067507What the fuck does difficulty have to do wtih anything, retard? Also nobody gives a shit that you got filtered by tutorial caster encounter as kid, you can put that insecurity to rest and stop getting all worked up and defensive whenever it's brought up.
>>4067625Are you high, or just dumb?
>>4067628Answer my question.
