>>4076973
my tastes include both snails and oysters

>>4076973
Was there beef between Avellone and Sawyer?

>>4076973
Go back, we don't need this pretentious writer worship here.

>>4076973
Avellone by a wide margin, though I think his talent has been overstated considering what he has done since the golden days.

>>4076990
Are you supposed to crunch up the shells and stuff?

Sawyer is a faggot

>”balanceman”
>chill fog, a level 2 spell trivializes the game

Sawyer is a moron.

Sawyer is ultimately a game designer, we see what happens when he gets a hold of writing. Avellone is purely a writer and nothing else, I don't think he has ever actually designed a game.

>>4077203
>he doesn't know how to use the two shells

>>4076973
In terms of Fallout, Avellone is good at generating new and interesting ideas for the lore. He seemingly needs other writers to improve and refine them to actually make them good in the game though. But overall I'd side with Avellone. He just has a much more impressive track record.

>>4078295
yeah this is the most important thing, they need to do this as a team.

>>4077718
Avellone was lead designer on Planescape Torment (while also writing over 75% of all the dialogue in the game), KOTOR II (lead writer too) and Alpha Protocol (also lead writer).
He held senior designer or designer roles on: Fallout 2, Fallout New Vegas, Icewind Dale 1 & 2, Neverwinter Nights 2 & MoTB, Prey.
He was project director and lead designer for: Dead Money, Old World Blues, and Lonesome Road.

>>4077043
No, it's a meme stolen from rpgcodex by retards who came on here and were assmad about people cheering on Avellone's lawsuit of the women who slandered him, 'cause believe all women or some shit, so they propped up Sawyer as a counter-point to him.
Of course what the retards didn't realize is that the meme was ironic in nature and came about to mock Sawyer as le "balance man", which they thought meant a balanced viewpoint, but came about because he kept ruining fun gameplay in Pillars of Eternity by nerfing fun classes to balance it like it was an mmo.

>>4076973
Sawyer said that he loved the Fallout tv show so for that alone I go with Avellone.

always side with MCA

>>4078698
Sawyer is a standard issue closeted corporate Californian, he will never be honest if he could benefit from brownnosing instead.

Avellone is likena Frazetta tier character, he speaks his mind and corpocucks hate him for it. He even managed to defeat a #metoo attempt and got the woman to admit she lied in court, but the corpocucks wasted no time in destroying his career at Obsidian as a part owner.

Avellone is now antraveling master who every ROG dev team brings in for a lookover and writing advice, he had a hand in a lot of stuff including Disco Elysium. My hope is that Avellone eventually starts his own small cRPG dev studio.

>>4078729
>My hope is that Avellone eventually starts his own small cRPG dev studio.

he won't. he's already rich enough to retire, he just freelances for fun and has implied he's waiting to just get called in by friends to work on stuff (as long as it's not obsidian with orcheart)

>>4076973
I like Sawyer's games way more on the design side. On the writing side, there isn't really much of a contest, since Sawyer barely does writing work, despite what this board seems to think, though I also think Avellone is often overwrought and overly purple here.
>>4077658
That was never what he meant by this. The goal was more so to avoid the typical problem of an "optimal" attribute distribution for any given class, by making "all" attributes in some way useful to each class, so that you can choose to develop the classes in more than one way. Overpowered things being in the game was always fine, and removing it was not a goal unto itself.

>>4078735
wasn't pentiment his big creative dream?

>>4078736
Yes, but that doesn't necessarily mean he wrote most of it. Like his job as narrative designer is more-so to create a setting, broad strokes narrative elements and in RPG/RPG-adjacent games, choice and consequence, it doesn't mean producing the actual text.

>>4076973
You should realize that FNV is a fluke anyway, and event then, it does not escape silliness of overall Fallout setting.

>>4076973
Avellone just feels more trustworthy

>>4076973
No team
But Josh is clearly better and more professional at his job than Chris is at his

>>4078735
>Overpowered things being in the game was always fine, and removing it was not a goal unto itself.
It wasn't just the attribute system going out of its way to be universal for classes. Specific abilities were tweaked a bunch

>>4078807
The silliness in FNV comes from one of Sawyer ideas (The Caesar's Legion faction)

>>4081270
The Legion was originally Avellone's idea though. While Sawyer and Gonzalez altered them from their concept in Van Buren for New Vegas.

>>4076973
The guy Avellone actually hates, and would say yes I hate him if you asked in person, is Feargus Urquhart

>>4077043
Newfags from RPGCodex keep an e-celeb worship General going at all times about Avellone or Sawyer, sometimes Cain.

>>4082217
Do they play anything other than Fallout?

>>4076973
Aveline was cancelled for raping a child or something while sawyer is gay and cool

>>4083879
For me it's Aveline

>>4082917
planescape: torment, arcanum, morrowind, and of course Age of Decadence

>>4083944
So basically Fallout, Fallout, Everquest, and Fallout.

>>4082917
They don’t play games. They just sit around on the internet bitching and being miserable, just like us.

>>4084091
>They don’t play games.
I'm fairly sure they play AAA slop as soon as it comes out so they can make threads about how shit the new game is in comparison to the codex approved old gem (they didn't actually play the old gem).
So yes, exactly like in here.

>>4083879
>Aveline was cancelled for raping a child
>or something
Hell of a "or something" when you clearly don't know what the fuck you're talking about. He won a libel lawsuit against his accusers and those bitches were forced to pay him a seven figure sum, plus admit publicly that he didn't do shit.

>>4082217
>Newfags from RPGCodex
This is like a "15 year old who feels mature for his old age" calling 40 year olds "kids".

>>4076973
Agree on Josh. Team Avellone forever.

>>4084663
You can return to RPGCodex at any time, newfag.

>>4081270
I don't find Legion that silly, beyond that fact that their inner system is nebulous and not portrayed well. But warlordism is nothing special.
Silliness is people eating 200 year old food, wearing clothes that old and so on.

i didnt mind Legion but always though the Kings were super silly to the point they break my immersion.

>>4076973
Avellone and it's not close. Probably the best game writer in the medium's history, a capable project lead, clearly snarky, cynical and never an asskisser so his corporate status never reflected his abilities and he was often mistreated for not playing that game, but he is good hearted, appreciates his fans and is always willing to do youtube talks with young creators and lend his name to indie projects. He isn't political but he isn't afraid of calling out the leftist aggression and wokescolding in gaming either. He is a protagonist of the developer industry and we're never going to have enough of his works for posterity.

>>4076990
based and goldpilled

>>4085912
Kind of true, I mean, I could see thugs trying to emulate a certain look, but not greaser type shit that needs industrial made hair gel that would probably went bad after 2 centuries.
Also, Fallout setting in general can't make up their mind on if people turn into tribals or it's just drug raider bandit gangs. I think it makes sense that there are bandits, but types like Fiends are kind of over the top, while Zion tribals, I am not sure, maybe it makes sense for them to abandon pre war tech, but I think there would likely be a bigger focus for post war people to at least retain agriculture (or restore it) asap, because all the shit that needs electricity and refined carbohydrates to manufacture would need to be replaced eventually with plant and animal matter. Pre war clothes with synthetic fibers would go bad after some decades of wear and exposure to elements, for example. They would need to focus on getting some sort of wool, or cotton, linen, leathers, that sort of thing.

>>4077043
There wasn't. An ex-Obsidian employee posted on RPG Codex the actual reason Avellone was fired - his alcoholism went completely off the rails and he would constantly not show up at work, show up drunk, or show up late, and then bitch and moan that his content wouldn't get enough attention.

>>4085922
>a capable project lead
He was the Project Lead for one game, anon. Sawyer directed several, including coming in late and saving NWN2 from being cancelled outright.

>>4085912
The original Fallout has a guy pretending to be Robin Hood because he managed to get a hold of some old movies.
>>4086844
People can make their own pomade with no problem.

>>4087216
man they completely hid the stairs to Loxley in FO1. I'm convinced they knew it sucked but someone wrote it and they spent the money on the head and no one had the heart to cut it. Now people playing it hold down the tab targeting reveal everything key and find it instantly

>>4076973
Sawyer's a faggot, but he can write very well. Basically everything good in NV is thanks to him, or John Gonzalez.

>>4086943
Well, his math was that he was indispensible and Obsidian could not make a good game without him was correct, the leadership just never did that math. Obsidian games ranked are a direct correlation with how much involvement he had in them. They were janky zero playtest AA games that we played for the witty philosophical writing and they axed the writer

>>4086945
>saving NWN2 from being cancelled outright.
Aren't you supposed to defend Sawyer?

>>4076973
Avellone was waaaaay hotter.

>>4088774
He's not the only or the best writer on Earth, anon. The actual math was that Obsidian didn't want to pay for talent, and a dysfunctional alcoholic loser was willing to take whatever paycheck he could get. That same loser was too dysfunctional to read the room and understand that he was expected to be professional while working at a job in exchange for the paycheck. The insane conceit is hard to frame in any other way. Obsidian was garbage in its own way: hiring only the rotten refuse of the bargain bin is a recipe for exactly the disasters which befell them. Everyone sucked there.

The things you / we / anyone values about what they've made are in spite of their flaws, not because of them.

And in particular, due to the extremely robust modding ecosystem surrounding those titles.

>>4076973
Both are retarded faggots and deeper in their own asses than humanity has stopped into earth

being THIS parasocial about a fucking rpg developer is tragic. At least a streamer or vtuber will pretend to laugh at your chat messages; wtf are these guys gonna do for you?

>>4091817
This is just debating authors or filmmakers, but you're just one of the brainrotten worthless people who does retarded things like watch streamers in the first place, and are projecting your broken reasoning onto others.

>>4087275
It's not like what's above-ground in the Hub is good anyways. Junktown-Hub is so tonally inconsistent it may as well be a different game (not that the rest is much better).

>>4089033
It had nothing to do with 'paying for talent', Avellone was a founding part owner of Obsidian. A lot of people here are too young to remember but the first cRPG kickstarters made millions as soon as they advertised Avellone, and ended up paying Obsidian to rent him out so he made a ton of money. Feargus Urquhart wanted to be a Todd level visionary meme and resented Avellone's celebrity. The irony of the Oaradox and Miscrosoft deals is that they oursued Obsidian specifically for Avellone as a coowner and head writer, and since he was pushed out their output has been worthless jank.

I mean, it was technically always jank but we liked it for the writing.

>>4089033
This is the kind of post that happens when you spend all your time on this website and lose touch with how the rest of RPG scene is. But it is important for a small semblance of a contrarian opinion to exist, otherwise there's no discussion to be had.

>>4076973
Avellone is a hack who made it once or twice thanks to a small army of dedicated underlings, POE proved it beyond any doubt.
Sawyer is a brain damaged piece of shit who fucks up everything he touches and a liberal.
Punch Avellone, behead Sawyer, that's what I say.

>>4095411
Avellone didn't write PoE, he penned the dialogue for two companions(easy to guess which as they're the only interesting ones with a dark and complex backstory as is his way) and the premise of the Hollowborn which was downplayed in the game. Beyond that he made some storyline notes and Watcher companion memory sequences that were left out.

You can tell Avellone was essential to Obsidian because Tyranny was released after he got canned, he barely contributed and it was easily their worst RPG.

>>4096241
Avellone created the setting for Tyranny and was the original project director until the CEO's micromanagement aggravated him into quitting.
Paradox was actually paying Obsidian a lot extra to have him in that specific role and boy were they mad when he spilled in an interview that he was no longer working on it since they never bothered to update them on the change.

>>4076973
Avellone is better than Sawyer. Also I'm not going to spam this board with FNV threads so I'll just ask here

What are the sexiest hat mods to equip on my female followers? I'm searching the Nexus right now for sexy headgear for female NPCs and it is all HIDEOUS! No tiaras, crowns, jewelry or even cute hats. This is fucking mole rat shit! Does anybody know good headgear FNV mods for dudettes?

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>>4078698
/thred.

>>4099279
Sawyer, how could you...

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>>4076973
they're both faggots but sawyer is infinitely more faggy, so avellone i guess

>>4076973
Avellone on writing Sawyer on gameplay balancing

>>4078735
>The goal was more so to avoid the typical problem of an "optimal" attribute distribution for any given class, by making "all" attributes in some way useful to each class
then he failed, because there are only 2 attributes worth investing in for wizards, with one of them being strength lol

>>4086943
>moan that his content wouldn't get enough attention.
He was right look were Obsidian is now

>>4089033
Based avellone Living the Rockstar life

>>4100832
Sawyer once revealed how much he's paid at Obsidian and it was 213k/year, so he earns 17.7k per month. I'm not American but that seems pretty high to me, right?

I'm surprised that Obsidian can pay their employees so well consider their videogame catalog

>>4076973
Honestly I've lost any hope that we'll get good games only HR garbage games at this point. I'm willing to bet we won't be allowed to be evil any more.

>>4101079
>only HR garbage games at this point. I'm willing to bet we won't be allowed to be evil any more.
You will ONLY be allowed to be evil. Attempting to be good implies the existence of universal objective morality which is incredibly problematic.

>>4101055
The cost of living is high in SoCal and he'd be earning even more if he worked at Blizzard or some other more successful company. Avellone said he became really wealthy just through freelancing after he left Obsidian, what he received as a co-owner was a pittance compared to what he could have made.

Sawyer is a better designer.

>>4102613
>Sawyer is a better designer.
Muscle wizards.

>>4102613
>>4077658

>two people that worked together
>closeted homo OP makes thread wanting to bait pointless arguments
>choose between sex pest that hasn't made anything and been blacklisted from the industry for being a loser and a director that actually releases products

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>>4103644

>>4103644
Avellone wrote for a ton of newer stuff like Disco Elysium.

>>4077658
it's actually a level 1 spell lol
and the gay fish can cast a version that doesn't affect party members

>>4114003
He did Cuno, didn’t he

>>4103645
What is this supposed to prove? Pentiment was a budget title without much replayability that catered to a particular niche. It's not a live service game. The steam metrics are irrelevant. Not to mention it was largely developed for the Xbox game pass according to Sawyer.

This weird trend of doing dick measuring contests with product metrics reminds me of kpop fandom. It's mental illness. This should not concern you unless you have a financial stake in the industry.

>>4114189
cope