No TV show even comes close to any of those listed though. You obviously haven't played them.

>>4079854
i played bioshock and it was a pretty basic story, maybe deep for a middle schooler. it doesn't really say anything new or interesting
the last of us is literally a tv show
rdr2 idk

>>4079829
>haven't played because I do not like dnd settings
Creative team at Obsidian took precautions to choose its setting and then adapt it so it is not dndlike at all. You won't find elves, swords, or dragons, which is a bit pretentious, but it probably suits a weeb faggot like you. I don't think video games can get to a level of literature ever especially weebshit, even to the japanese stuff like Mishima, Kawabata, Dazai. A well-written game like planescape torment is probably more artistically valuable than most fantasy literature, even then there are pieces like Conan and LOTR that would challenge this claim, since we cherry-pick the best of the best

>>4079829
Your list is correct and complete up until Pathologic (Pathologic 1, not the remake/remaster).

There’s no depth to RPG stories because the only people that enjoy RPGs are failed men, trying to numb the unpleasantness of life, and preteens, that cannot properly interact with the real world yet. No real intellectual would devote time writing to get the adoration of failure-to-launch subhumans. And preteens just enjoy a basic coming-of-age story, which is what most RPGs are actually about.

The games you listed are essentially happy, once-in-a-million accidents. You should cherish and replay them as often as you can, because the hobby is only going downhill.

>>4079829
Everyone’s gonna say PS:T of course
I’ll add
>VtM:R
>FF10
>Morrowind
Top three stories in RPGs imo
Honorable mention is the 2017 “Prey”. It’s RPG-adjacent at least

>>4080129
You do this same gimmick posting schtick here every day, aren’t you bored of it? What is wrong with your life that you feel compelled to seek attention in such a negative manner as this? Would you like a hug?

>>4079829
Final Fantasies 7 and 10. Didn't expect that from old JRPGs but here we are

>>4080129
why are you on vrpg lol

>>4080192
>vtmr
i've only played vtmb, i'll chck that out ty
>ff10
i tried it and did not like it, I preferred ff6 and ff8 honestly
>morrowind
also played this, i feel like it's cheating bc most of the good writing is just in books and not an actual part of the game

>>4080129
>Your list is correct and complete up until Pathologic
up until Xenogears*
>>4079829
I believe Xenogears reaches some of the same heights as TBK. If you are interested, I can explain why I think so. For now, I will explain why Xenosaga is a major regression for me. Essentially, the inclusion of oracle characters like Nephilim with didactic dialogue issuing imperatives to the protagonists is mediocre writing. Xenogears has no equivalent, and the conflict, even on disc 2, is never didactic, with characters dropped from above telling you what to think.
Btw Ideon and especially Be Invoked is an absolute masterpiece, and it's a shame that it is often reduced to a proto Evangelion. To me, it is genuinely a cinematic masterpiece

The defining aspect of what makes literature unique from other forma of media is that it allows the reader to understand what characters are thinking through internal monologs. Almost no videogames do this, so the comparison is not realistic.

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>>4079829
>literature tier
Why can't we just talk like normal human beings anymore?

>>4080629
sry im a retard
i guess i meant "on par with literature", but my speech has been stamped into a form that is intelligible to zoomers

>>4080599
Updated my journal.
Damn, those alien bastards are going to pay for shooting up my ride.
You n’wah!
They act sooner than I had anticipated. No matter, they will only prove a slight delay.

>>4080599
There are no interior monologues in Homeric poems, everything is externalized. The interior monologue is a modern development and a stylistic technique tied to mimesis and realism, and it is not the only way to write a profound story.

>>4080647
why are you reading Homoerotic poems

>>4081276
he is a complicated man

>>4080245
Xenogears a shit

>>4079829
none of them.

>>4079858
>rdr2
It's basically
>Dude what if we had, like, an outlaw who kills people, but wait for it... he knows killing people is bad and doesn't want to do it anymore! But he keeps killing anyway because of the circumstances he finds himself in until he redeems himself by killing more.
>Wow, what a fascinating moral arc! Let's also make him antiracist, feminist, and add a girlboss in 1899

>>4083617
What are you trying to say

>>4083753
I think he's trying to say rdr2 is pretentious and lame in line with blandly meaningless current-year libtard culture.

>>4084397
RDR2 definitely makes nods to political correctness and 21st-century American values, as have many modern westerns. Historical fiction often reveals more about current-day attitudes than it does about the past.
That being said, I don't remember the game being any more PC than the average 90s movie and anon's "summary" of the game's storyline is disingenous. You can make any story sound stupid if you summarize it in the right way. And in the case of RDR2, the entire presentation, not just the overall story, but the dialogue, the voice-acting, the high-quality mocap, the graphics, the music, etc., make the experience feel like the equivalent of watching a good TV series or movie. I would personally say that it's close to on par with the best Western movies that I've watched.

>>4084536
nta but what if i just don't like westerns

>>4084636
Then we will be like
>Whaaat anon doesn't like westerns? That's crazy
Then you'll be like
>Wow I didn't know anons cared so much about what I don't like

>>4084655
<3

Westerns were and are key to being able to imagine the American. The ending to RDR1 is maybe closer to how the original clint eastwood movies could affect you. But Westerns are not written well either, at least not on par with Shakespeare or Dostoyevsky. They are more preoccupied with being Westerns. FFX is on par with a very good soap opera, or a 90's romcom with a tear-jerking ending. I think FF7-FFX could probably fit into that same criteria. Blood Money is surprisingly good, although the story telling is often indirect.

A game has never made me pause and think about it past the time I played it, at least concerning the story. I think a lot of games consider a complicated or convoluted story a more advanced kind of story. So they make these very twisted, cavernous, and mysterious plots, with a lot of details and rabbit-holes in for the online wiki page. And these are a different kind of enjoyment, but they are not something that compels people to write a thesis on it. Certainly, they are not stories that compel people to read a thesis someone else wrote on it.

Tone, colour, sound, music, space, all these things video games can excel at to the point where I can imagine the sense of the size of a room from a particular title. But the writing is equivalent, at best, to an R.L. Stein paperback.

>>4084536
>You can make any story sound stupid if you summarize it in the right way.
A troll comes to life and roams the country eating trash

>>4084636
Then you need to come to terms with your homosexuality.
>>4084963
>But Westerns are not written well either, at least not on par with Shakespeare or Dostoyevsky.
Yeah, but what is. This is the problem that comes with discussing writing in video games; someone always comes along and compares a video game, not just to a different medium, but to the absolute best example of a different medium. Most books, even good books, can't be compared to Shakespeare or Dostoevsky. This is like barging into a discussion about the movies and then pointing out that none of them have soundtracks as good as the works of Beethoven.

>>4085198
>This is like barging into a discussion about the movies and then pointing out that none of them have soundtracks as good as the works of Beethoven
Hey, I liked Clockwork Orange

>>4080647
Based and bicameral mind pilled.

>>4085198
>This is like barging into a discussion about the movies and then pointing out that none of them have soundtracks as good as the works of Beethoven.
It's interesting that people here have the tendency to try and get on high horses.

>>4085379
>It's interesting that people here have the tendency to try and get on high horses.
well yeah its a western, I want the highest horse

>>4085198
OP's question is already loaded with the premise that literature is comparatively written to a higher standard. I made room to suggest there's different standards within literature by comparing it to Stein and other pulp fiction. If you don't like video games being compared to pulp fiction, which they share a lot of similarities to, I don't know what to tell you.

My point is that game writing doesn't compare to good literature, and the two mediums really produce different outcomes anyway. Aside from all that I can think of games that made me feel something, but I can't think of one that made me think and want to change. I think video games are designed to produce behaviours interaction, so reflection would actually be counter-intuitive to the intention.

Anyway, to contribute some more titles for OP maybe Kingdom Hearts if you liked Lost but wanted it to be Disney themed. Was Siren good maybe? I never played that one.

>>4079829
The media literacy trannies on Backloggd often mention 'Xiyan', so that maybe? Haven't played it.

Pretty much most of the 'literature' games you want will end up being RPGmaker, Horror, Walksims, JRPGs, Interactive Fiction, VNs, and Click and Points. Since those are the realms most pseud hipster fags like to frequent. Excluding "moviegames", since they are 'blockbuster' instead of 'literature' for some reason.

I doubt you might consider book adaptations, but many do exist as a game. The Pillars of the Earth game is, in my opinion, better than the book.

CRPGs tend to fare better in writing mostly due to reading being the bulk of the experience alongside combat, but cinematization has dwindled that.

I'd reckon Age of Decadence would fit well. It's very heavy on themes, world-building, and ideologies. Also some great dialogue and characters.
>>4080192
>games I like
None of those have great stories, at least in terms of pure writing. Good games, yes. Stories? In service of the game aspects mostly.
People often mistake quests and roleplaying as standalone achievement in writing.
Morrowind's world-building and MUHLORE is great, but I doubt that's what OP is asking for.

>>4085198
>>4085476
Without arrogance, just to be honest, the argument "they are different media, you can't compare them" has always sounded like coping to me. A hybrid medium certainly doesn't need descriptive prose, but dialogue, plot, characterization, and the boldness to avoid forcibly reassuring conclusions remain universal criteria regardless of the medium. The moment you want to write a story with high ambitions, I judge you using the criteria of literature. A beautiful shot or incredible music cannot save mediocre writing, on the contrary, it bothers me even more because it is a waste.
It is not a video game, but take Evangelion (without EoE), the final episode has directorial merits that I do not question, but writing wise it is trash. It is full of didactic self help lines, zero subtext or ambiguity, and it is ridiculous to hear people call it a philosophical masterpiece. This is why I am deeply disappointed by the medium in 50 years, is it really possible there isn't a single serious author? Dostoevsky or Kafka are the peak not only because they are excellent writers, but also because they created new paradigms. I am not saying a video game has to be Dostoevsky, but it shouldn't give you the impression of some incredible vision only to throw bullshit namedropping in your face

>>4085533
I know what you mean, and at one point when I was very affected by nerd culture and video games I wished very much for something to rival hollywood to come out of video games. But I believe I have have misunderstood the intention behind video games all along, and they are not meant to be literature masterpieces by design. The guy who made Ultima envisioned video games as a sort of moral teaching tool, the Pentagon sees video games as a sort of propaganda vector, and leftists see video game as some sort of escapism or refuge for their highly specific idealizations.

I think the limitation here is the player. Games are more like a collection of playing blocks you manipulate. Video games always involve a player who can upend whatever narrative the developers are attempting to make. It can be as as simple as spinning a character around in a corner during a "very serious scene", or making an npc repeat a voice line over and over again to create some comedy. I mean, I wouldn't expect to be able to conjure Othello out of an Escape Room either. I suspect that even by activating the practical brain it severly limits the possibility to observe the narrative of a video game. We cannot act and observe simultaneously, I suspect.

But could the events of King Lear take place accidentally in EvE Online? Maybe.

>>4085533
>Without arrogance, just to be honest, the argument "they are different media, you can't compare them" has always sounded like coping to me.
You may judge them as you like, but do be aware there's a whole lot of limitations when it comes to video games and their writing.

>>4079829
>What are some games that are well written to the point of being literature tier?
>planescape torment (haven't played because I do not like dnd settings)
Ahahahahaha well if you like meandering slop then yeah its peak literature. Pseuds love fellating planescape because they never played it, most of them would fall asleep before even leaving Sigil. The nameless one is an interesting character but besides his story you'll notice that you won't care at all for the setting, the secondary characters or whatever shit random npcs say in guise of "worldbuilding".

>>4085842
i was just listing it because i keep seeing it referenced as being very well written, not because I personally consider it to be so

>>4085476
> I made room to suggest there's different standards within literature by comparing it to Stein and other pulp fiction.
Not a great comparison though, because Goosebumps is at the lowest level of pulp fiction. Even within pulp there are levels of quality; a writer like Lovecraft or Poe or Steven King is far superior to R. L. Stine even if they are roughly in the same genre. I don't think you can seriously look at something like, e.g. Vampire the Masquerade: Bloodlines and think that the writing is on the same level as Goosebumps.
My benchmark for good writing in a video game is something along the lines of "a good episode of Star Trek: The New Generation" or something thereabouts. I think this is a reasonable target to aim for given the limits of the medium.
>>4085533
>>4085533
I think the problem here is comparing mediums, because what the storyline is doing in a video game is very different from what the storyline is doing in a movie or a book. For example, I think that Gears of War has a good storyline in the sense that it provides an effective frame for the gameplay. You have enough characterization to make you feel like you're in an action movie and want to get to the next setpiece. The story is meant to enhance the gameplay and not the other way around. I guess a good comparison might be movies where the story is an excuse for interesting visuals (like Fantasia or Angel's Egg or something).

>>4086483
>Goosebumps
As a child, I once asked for one of these at the bookstore
Shit was so short that I finished the book on the car ride home
Never again

>>4086483
In my view, as a hybrid medium, there should be room for multiple approaches, both where the story plays a functional role and where it serves as the main focus. I don't mind simple, well executed stories, my issue is with works of high ambition that end up coming across as naive compared to a great novel

>>4086495
goosebumps gave me weird fetishes

>>4079829
The Prophet, a module for Neverwinter Nights.

>>4086582
>works of high ambition that end up coming across as naive compared to a great novel
This sounds like it may be more of a problem with naive and illiterate fans who glaze anything remotely "philosophical" than it is with any given game.