>>4093029
>weakest in the romancing series
most people never even played RS1 and RS2.. me included, because the Sagafans didn't translate them for decades.

games don't need to be "fixed"

The older game isn't going to be erased from existence, so rs1 sfc is still the weakest in the romancing series.

Remakes are more like sequels that repeat the game's story. Hopefully this one will be like RS2:RotS where there's a cool new battle system to master. But if they stick too closely to the RotS systems this game might end up disappointing. RS2 was built around temporary party members and that fit with class abilities and picking team members to counter the boss you're facing, while in RS3 I stick with characters once they're available. I guess there will be NG++ but generally when I play a game like RS3 I want to start a fresh file.
Also I wonder if they'll stick to one battle system or if they'll also add a new type of commander mode.

>>4093029
That is SF1, RS3 is arguably in the top 5

Any ways what sorts of changes do anons hope will be done?

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>>4093029
>commander mode is out

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>releasing TWO (2) DAYS before persona 4 revival
jesus christ square

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>>4093149
they removed Commander mode?
>>4093224
game is actually more famous in Japan than Persona 4 if you can believe it

>>4093149
Not nearly as much of a loss as people think. They have to make final boss changes for one of the characters, though. I also don't think the auto-combat it more or less is going to work if they're expanding the combat to the same degree they did with RS2.

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>>4093149
>>4093228
>commander mode is out
>you can recruit everyone regardless of character
>save points heal you and can let you change out party members at will
>no phantom maze this is a good thing imho
>Development is not being handled by a single studio. Xeen continues to play a major role, but roughly 10 companies are contributing to the project.
https://noisypixel.net/romancing-saga-3-destinies-united-story-recruitment-remake-changes/

>>4093078
I agree, this remake will be good unless it's a buggy mess that can't run for some reason, but i'm worried it won't be as good as RS2.

>>4093252
>>you can recruit everyone regardless of character
remaster already neutered this by removing recruitment limit which admittedly was a dogshit system. but it served a purpose in forcing players to stick to the characters they have already recruited, instead of making party members like these dolls you equip and unequip on a whim.

>>4093250
narrative wise mikhail (and maybe thomas as well) fit the commander mode better than fighting battles themselves. it's a huge loss.

>>4093119
He said "romancing" series, and the weakest SaGa game is SaGa 3.

>>4093292
Peony too.

If you can recruit Katarina with anyone then that removes the one unique thing about her path.
Similarly, removing Commander Mode means that another route will play out differently too.
I'm curious to see how they're going to make each MC unique this time around.

>>4093285
>>4093252
The game's probably inheriting the character skill system from RoTS. So they likely opted to make everyone available per route so that everyone would have access to all of the skills (when the free select unlocks). If you're a minmaxing autist, this pretty much kills everyone except for the 5 with the best innates but its not like certain werent a bit better than others in the original anyway.

>>4093224
Sending it out to die. Damn shame really.

>>4093301
Oh whoops, my bad. Well ignoring original RS1, I agree with him then

>>4093323
Let's be honest here, very few SaGa characters have an actual unique gimmick beyond "Unusually high stat".

>>4093403
Spark tables make characters exceptionally unique in RS3.

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>>4093403
Pretty sure they had stuff like an invisible greed stat that determined what quests they could take and the rewards they would demand from its completion.

>>4093472
Greed counter getting too high just makes you auto choose the selfish asshole options after you cross a threshold. the mechanic doesn't really matter for anyone else except khalid who starts one off the threshold. so if you are greedy even once as khalid you are locked in the asshole mode forever and also locked into his greedy ending.

>>4093252
>>you can recruit everyone regardless of character
This is actually a problem since party configuration depending on your protagonist was kind of a big deal. Ability to change your party in RS2 without them dying is natural evolution, but this is a core change.

>>4093301
>and the weakest SaGa game is SaGa 3.
Is it really? Weaker than 1?

>>4093403
You don't need a gimmick to be unique.
Recruitment options, quest routes, spark tables, your stat sheets or even something simple like the fancy jojo poses or how the character was written and had unique answers to choices are all things them unique and appealing, they're slowly but surely removing all of this just like how every emperor but pajama gerard and the last emperors got muted in RS2.
Mikhail couldn't recruit Tatyana in the original because of certain narrative reasons that made sense for the character, Sara was the only one who could recruit the young boy because there was a sort of implied crush on his side and there was also the plot point of the two children of destiny, remove all of this stuff and you actively make the narrative worse and show how you do not understand why some limitations were a thing and it was good to have them.
>>4093486
They could have fixed and expanded upon it rather than removing it altogether like many other unique features of the game, you know?
That's one of the things remakes are supposed to do, look at the previous remakes and try to count how many things were removed rather than being either reworked into better systems or removed altogether.
Also Khalid's ending has nothing to do with the greed counter, it's entirely decided by whether you get the Khamsin or not, the only thing the greed counter does is giving you access to a bunch of early game quests, the most damning consequence of having high greed being getting locked out from the Ice Galaxy as Ward can refuse to bring you to the frozen lake if you've been a very naughty boy.

>>4093575
>removed altogether.
*improved altogether, fuck me
Anyway, it's abundantly clear by now the these remakes aren't made with the series' philosophy in mind, RoTS on its own could have been a just a matter of inexperience and lack of confidence but DU is an undoubtable admission that they never gave a shit and just want to make money.

>>4093575
>Khalid's ending has nothing to do with the greed counter, it's entirely decided by whether you get the Khamsin or not,
desu.

and the good is basically the default end. getting his best curved sword, gets you the bad end. and that sword isn't half as good as the best uncurvy sword. terrible game design IMO

>>4093582
>good ending is basically the default ending

>>4093582
The Khamsin is the third best single handed sword in the game (41) after the transformed Seven Star Sword (60, basic form is lower than both at 35) and the Dragonscale Sword (43), it's also the strongest curved sword in the game and Demilune/Demilune Echo are only available on curved swords.
The sword not being the best of the best also makes sense because it's a symbolic token more than anything, the entire lore about Khamsin is that whoever wants to use it to lead Gessiah has to sacrifice the most precious thing they have, which in Khalid's case is Fatima, choosing to pick up Khamsin signifies choosing ambition over love so it makes sense for the sword to end up in third place to further drive home the message.

>>4093564
1's only real weakness is its absolute dogshit map design, but it was extremely innovative with its races having different growths and the original lifepoints system that became a signature aspect of SaGa. 3 dropped basically all the mechanics that were in 1 and 2 except for monster forms which were of limited use, I'm not sure if I'm remembering correctly but I think only humans could use the legendary weapons that could actually hurt the final boss worth a damn.

>>4093149
commander mode?

>>4093575
>>4093580
>They could have just rebalanced/improved it
Its absolutely hilarious hearing this from you considering how much you vehemently reject people that use the exact same line when it comes to core battle system used in RoTS.
Yes, its true, they could have improved Commander Mode, just like they could have improved the core systems in RoTS and I fucking hope that they do take some of the comments and complaints into account so the NG+ focused difficulties (Expert and Romancing) are better but Commander Mode is a completely different battle system that you need to balance the entire game around as well so that battles feel satisfactorily balanced on both sides.

>>4093149
>>4093252
One other change they made is that now you play through the entire intro first and after you complete it, you select your protagonist. Shinichi thought of this and brought it to Kawazu and he said he thought about doing it that way in the original as well.

>>4093661
And what exactly did the core battle system in ROTS rebalance or improve coming from the OG, outside of maybe remembering to fix Hell Claw and Wind God Sword's damage multipliers a whole year after the game released without actually making them relevant in the system?
>Commander Mode is a completely different battle system that you need to balance the entire game around as well
Look, they already remade the entire battle system from the ground up into something completely different from the rest of the series without needing any reason to do so, then they noticed (as I already mentioned days ago btw) that you can't have CTB and Commander Mode in the same game they just swept the latter under the rug because they clearly do not care about the original game at all.
What's next, they remake Frontier, remove racial mechanics or monster forms because it's too much work and you'll keep clapping like a seal in the name of imaginary balance?
I don't know about you, but I don't play RPGs for the balance and these games aren't an exception, I play SaGa because I like its formula and these people keep messing with it.

>they have problems balancing one combat system
>so certainly the way to go is to have two half assed systems instead of one
At least they're honest enough to admit that they werent up to the task. L M A O

so can I start by playing RoSaGa 2 remake? Or is there a better non-boomer entrypoint?

If commander mode is out I'm not playing. It's fun, it's unique, and it has meaning in the story for some characters.

>Commander Mode absent in the remake
So, what does this mean if you have Sara as your main character?

>>4093323
The type of people who would pick up Persona would never even give SaGa a chance

>>4094553
so it'll crater the remake sales because remake players definitely aren't giving SaGa a chance.

>>4093078
They stated on a jp stream there's no commander mode in this

>>4093119
Professor and Volcano being recruitable

>>4094142
I never touched it outside of Sarah.

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>>4093029
how is 3 the weakest when 1/mistrel song exists? those are still great games but i rather replay 3 than 1/MS
3 has the weakest ost out of all RS games i'll give you that, only few themes are memorable to me from that game

>>4094973
Mardias > Avalon > dont even remember what RS3 world is called

>>4094799
There's a bunch of randos that they could add but its almost certainly going to be Professor, Volcano and Matriach (thanks Re Universe)

>>4093119
>professor either recruitable or at least she gives actual reward doing her quests
>that girl which saved mc from rat cave becomes recruitable (a jp fanhack of rs3 did this)
>volcano recruitable
>magic rebalance because the damage ones falls off hard lategame outside of gravity+servant combo and lategame utility magics are gigabroken
>tatyana, shonen and khalid story can happen in normal content instead of that optional maze thing
>please don't fuck up destroyer/oblivion design in 3d, meatball in rs2 remake looks awful

What's the difference between SaGa and Romancing SaGa?

>>4095183
Romancing is where SaGa "properly" started, having multiple protagonists and large amounts of recruitable characters, large amounts of sidequests and freedom to explore from the very start, and the signature mechanics like sparking techs and only having to worry about WP and MP in long dungeons.

Things like permadeath and level-agnostic stat growth were already in the first two GB games.

>>4094650
I can see DU getting decent sales and possibly a bit more than ROTS in Japan, as the other anon said there's no overlap between Persona and SaGa and RS3 is a pretty beloved game with cult status, I'm seeing a good deal of JP people interested in it so far.
Persona has an iron grip here in the west though so we'll have to wait and see.
>>4095183
SaGa's just the general name of series, for each era of games there's a naming convention.
The Gameboy games are called SaGa+*added subtitle* like Makai Toushi, Hihou Densetsu etc.
The SNES games are the Romancing trilogy, which firmly established the identity of the series and moved away from the simple, linear dungeon crawler structure of the first trilogy into the open ended RPG, tons of mainstay mechanics like multiple main characters, formations or sparking are created here.
PS1 has the Frontier duology, this is the period where modern mechanics like combos are introduced and we see more experimentation that also goes back to the roots of the GB trilogy.
On the PS2 Unlimited is the next generation title that starts the virtual tabletop format, while Minstrel Song is a remake of the first Romancing SaGa that is also a mega-mix of mechanics the series used in previous games and new ones, it also starts the modern remake format reused with the NDS games that has a thematic subtitle again like the GB games.
Past these there's Scarlet Grace and Emerald Beyond duo, which continue Unlimited's legacy, introduce the modern Timeline based combat and follow a colour theme in the title.

>all these people bitching about Commander mode being gone in the RS3 remake
>none of them explain what it is when asked

guess it wasn't that big of a thing

>>4095261
Its prototype Last Remnant.

>>4095261
Dogshit gimmick that devalues the game. Lots of those in this series.

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>>4095261
Everyone who has played RomSaGa3 knows what commander mode is, but if you really want an explanation, when you place the party leader out of the party the gameplay changes to suggestive commands like prioritizing offense or defense, as well as special party combo attacks based on what formation you're using.
As>>4095273 anon said, it was basically the prototype for the Last Remnant's whole gameplay system.
Sorta like how SaGa Frontier 2 has a whole other one-vs-one combat system; it just offered an alternate playstyle for people who get tired of constantly choosing every move for every fight.
>>4095282
Remakes shouldnt cut out content or mechanics for no reason other than laziness; it would've been interesting to see an expanded commander mode in a post The Last Remnant world

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Commander mode's removal is basically admitting they just lousily shat this remake out without a care in the world. It fucking sucks that Romancing SaGa remakes aren't basing themselves off of Minstrel Song's exmaple, one of the best games in the entire series

>>4095285
Let's suppose the kept Commander Mode, how do you propose that it fits with all of the other systems that are present within RoTS? The game is completely turn based instead of round based, so would fusion magic be converted into pseudo overdrives as an example?

>>4095282
How does Commander Mode devalues anything you retard?

>>4095296
Overdrive in these remakes is literally just combos but with zero planning or strategy and even more rewards.
If they were to bake in formation techs or spells into it (they won't) the game would become even more OD centric than before, though I expect formation spells to survive since they can just carry over the concept of fusion spells from other games, that's also what many formation spells were in the first place, fusion spells like Light Wall or advanced spells like Crimson Flare, those will probably be added to the normal spell lists or become fusion spells, also because I'm fairly sure they'll keep the same exact Light Wall meta in this game.
They'll probably make it so certain boss fights or some other shit unlocks stuff like Crimson Flare in Anna's list of secret spells, you already need to find formulae for some formations spells like Galaxy inside chests in the four main dungeons and RoTS explicitly reused that idea with the magic tomes.

>>4095312
All of the existing commander mode techs were repurposed into standard techs/fusion magic. However if Commander Mode was present, would they still have done the same? Its hard to justify blowing two+ turns for just one spell or attack in a system where OD combos exist unless the OD modifier was severely nerfed or something like Galaxy was so exceedingly strong that it overshadows everything else.

>>4095319
No, because the existence of Commander Mode makes round based combat without OD a necessity so there wouldn't be anything to rework, they would have kept things as they are.
OD and CTB makes Commander Mode and anything related to it impossible, the reason why formations techs or spells were a thing was because you didn't have direct control on your characters which meant that you were unable to access specific strategies you could use in normal mode, so they exchanged this for a bunch of functions that you cannot have in normal mode.
>Passive party wide regen that also automatically raises characters
>Formation techs which can deal fairly good damage and also ignore things like counters or magic barriers
>Formation spells for huge AoE magic damage and other tricks that normal magic can't do like Light Wall for damage reduction and countering the final boss' Dark wing, Rabbit Storm for fast mass stuns or Tidal Wave for mass death
>Your sixth party member actually does something and buffs all other characters, in Sara's case they also cheat
Having OD and CTB means none of this is viable because the game is all about filling a static resource bar to win the rat race and not even being able to control what you use in your combos since OD chooses techs and spells for you.

>>4095335
>No answer
I play these games more than you ever will, go back to /v/ where you belong.

>>4095330
That's what I was getting at. The existence of commander mode especially in RoTS/DU would functionally be akin to creating an entire second game that they'd have to design encounters around to ensure that both sides present adequate difficulty.
If I had my way, I'd iterate on what TLR and RS3 did well and go from there but whatever.

>>4095238
Also worth mentioning; Alliance Alive, Legend of Legacy, and Last Remnant are considered honorary SaGa games due to dev and mechanics overlap.

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What's the logic behind where party members run off to after you dismiss them from the Minstrel? I wanted to temporarily recruit someone just so I could get their map location, so i booted Galahad out of the party. Now I can't find his ass anywhere I've checked. He's not at the Temple or Mirsa in Crystal City (where I found him) and I've cycled in and out of there multiple times (I saved beforehand). When I did it with Albert he just showed back up in the Crystal City pub? Is it generally going to be in the area you first recruited them in?

Does the game not want you to be rotating members in and out just to get new locations? I thought it would be ideal to just get a starting five and stick with that through the playthrough, since taking on a "temp" member and committing to them for anything wastes jewels and money into equipment that are finite.

>>4095467
there's a randomized delay before they reappear. cant remember if it was tracked by in game clock or battle count.

Its been a while but doesnt MS force certain characters for specific quests so its more like a fixed 4 and a 5th that temporarily gets benched?

>>4095467
Depends on the characters.
Generics are found in pubs and are fixed, but also stop appearing after early BR and cannot be recruited after that, the exception here is the Pirate, which is exclusive to Hawke's starting party.
Most character have fixed locations they don't move away from, Galahad, Flamme, Patrick, Herman, Neidhart and a bunch of other people are like this.
Other characters, mostly the MCs, travel around the world and can be found in various pubs around the world, Barbara is perhaps the best example of that, they have a fixed routine though so if you memorize where they spawn you can also simply go in and out of town to reseed them.
Some extremely rare examples have a mix of these things, Albert for instance can be reliably found and recruited in the ruins of the Isthmus in the very early ER, after that he'll move around pubs.
After characters are kicked out of the party or suffer LP death in combat there's a grace period where they do not respawn until said period is over, iirc you need to win a certain amount of battles before they respawn.
If they are killed off through quest events outside of a very specific choice which I won't spoiler they die for real and don't come back, ever.

The game doesn't really encourage rotating party members around, but in the early game some quests do involve temporary party members so it's best to keep one or two spots free for them until you're done with those quests.

>>4095451
Alliance Alive and Legend of Legacy had Kyoji Koizumi, a battle programmer and designer for the SaGa games famously known for his "Koizumi traps".

the sci-fi area of Emerald Beyond doesn't fuck around

>>4095695
Most of the basic encounters are pretty chill, if you actually go fuck around with all the hidden bosses in there it gets nasty, but the loot you get is so good it's worth trying.
I still remember when the demo came out and we were all getting our cheeks clapped by the Necronomicon boss fight.

>>4095718
some of the fights are giving me issues but I think that is because haven't gotten used to the whole Conditionals/Triggers/Interrupts part of the system

>>4095727
Who're you playing as? Some MCs can skip that world if you wanna move on.
I guess the Red Division route can be annoying when you're dealing with all the special golden baums

>>4095661
>Albert for instance can be reliably found and recruited in the ruins of the Isthmus in the very early ER, after that he'll move around pubs.

I only did a bit of Alfred's starting before switching to Sif, but you can actually just find him hanging out in the castle early on like that? He does eventually get caught up in the shipwreck and washes at Valhalland, which is how you run into him in Sif's starting area.

One more thing, for all the "dungeon" locations that you can move into manually or get to it through a rumor without a linked quest, like the Deep Pit in the dessert area, is there any benefit to me going there or through it until I have a designated quest for it? I'm assuming any boss or quest related fight doesn't trigger, right? The Abandoned Keep as well, what happens if I go there before the quest to help the soldier? Does it allow me to clear that hideout and the group early, and it just resolves that plotline without the king and his little guy ever needing to go inside it? Would I miss out on Jewels/Money for doing that?

Thinking about RS3 gameplay
I think it justifies three playthroughs before you've exhausted almost everything the game has to offer: first blindly stumble your way through the game, then cheese the game with Hasten Time, then pick Mikhail and defeat the full power final boss in Commander Mode.

Thomas can get high int in character creation but he's still bad. His HP and MP will lag far behind the rest of your team and he won't get a mp cost discount. He can deal high single-target damage with hypergravity but not before clearing an abyss gate and he won't be able to use hasten time if he's using hypergravity. Better to dupe a dolphin statue and use him as an inferior Undine, if you bother using him at all.

>Khalid
High strength, speed, sword level, hp&sp. Unique dungeon provides a strong sword. Good for strength-based damage and might be fast enough to abuse hasten time.
iirc his 'greed' doesn't matter aside from Ward's ice lake quest. Once you're done that quest you can maximize money from other quests.

>Katarina
Weaker but faster than Khalid. Also has the best dex but dex weapons suck. Fortunately for her the best one-handed sword tech "doppelslasher" doesn't depend on the strength of the user. It also has a low sp cost and isn't too hard to spark.
Note that you don't need to pick swords in character creation if you want to use swords. You can pick spear or epee for stats and she'll still be able to spark gale slash, doppelslasher, etc. [I know Katarina and Khalid can pick spear and learn doppelslasher just fine. Not sure about Julian and Mikhail. The other four will have a different spark type.]

>Mikhail
Ruling minigame gives him easy access to extra workshop equipment. Army battle minigame is fun.
Gives the highest party bonus in commander mode. When I picked Mikhail I played the entire game in commander mode. That means no Maximus fight, fight Byunei without Gwayne, etc. I imagine he'd also be good leading a hasten time team.

>>4095748
>Hasten time
Hasten time uses all of a unit's remaining MP and will stop the enemy from acting for a turn if it's cast before the enemy acts. Even better if the caster has at least 16mp as it lets your team act first next round (so you can easily chain it with another character's hasten time). Also useful to have 11mp or 26mp since you can use shadow servant before using hasten time, though you might not want to trigger a terrain change in the final fight.
You'll also want to break some staves of vivacity for AoE heals in the final fight prior/during hasten time cheese. Undine can get a couple sp without losing her mp crown.
Good recruitable characters: Robin, Fairy, Undine, Black, Boston. Use Wedge formation.

>Commander mode
You lose precise control over characters but can order your team to use techs and remove their unwanted techs. You can also attempt to strike first with basic attacks. The commander can use healing items or damage items each turn or initiate a formation tech. Every party member heals some hp each turn and downed characters revive with 1hp.
You'll want to spark the formation tech Reverse Delta. It can then be used in Spell Pyramid formation and will help wear down the final boss while conserving sp.
Good recruitable characters: Bai Meiniang, Ward, Nora, Robin
Bai Meiniang should go in the middle with archfiend armor, archfiend shield, etc. Remove tornado magic before the abyss. Wind dart and suction are weaker but they won't wipe your team if confused. Nora uses axes, Ward and Robin use 1h swords.

>>4094136
Yes, RS2:ROTS is a great game and a great sequel. Playing it will give you some familiarity with SaGa so other games will be easier to understand.

>>4095750
>sequel
I mean remake. Same thing really

>>4095737
>but you can actually just find him hanging out in the castle early on like that?
Yeah, outside of his scenario and Sif's he can be found and recruited there in the very early ER, there's no real benefit to do so though, it's some small worldbuilding detail.
>is there any benefit to me going there or through it until I have a designated quest for it?
That's also something that depends from quest to quest, the general outcome in most cases is that you complete events related to that location in a way that changes how other quests turn out, the abandoned keep is a good example because it has quite a few variations depending on how you go there and when, but usually you'll want to complete them in the "intended" way because it leads to better rewards, some of the alternate routes are pretty funny though, e.g. if you clear out the abandoned keep without Theodore and Raphael you humiliate them big time.
The desert has only one specific questline you can unlock around mid ER which involves Aisha, but if you wanna go and explore there before that you can certainly do it, there's just not much to find there though outside of one specific item that can also help you out in solving another quest in a specific way.

>>4095730
Tsunanori Mido.

Already did the Dark Castle area. This is also my first time playing EB

>>4095765
Mido can skip that world's questline and go directly into the spirit hunt business.
>Already did the Dark Castle area.
Nice, that's a world with a ridiculous amount of possible questlines, did you get best girl?

>>4095778
>Nice, that's a world with a ridiculous amount of possible questlines,
I can see why NG+ is basically mandatory because it feels like I did miss out on stuff. Probably doing the towers in different orders causes things to change,.

>did you get best girl?
the goth chick that helps you out from the start? Yeah

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>>4095782
The game is built on NG+ cycles, especially when it comes to Tsunanori, you need at least three cycles to get all of his story.
All worlds have multiple routes which are also influenced by your MC and your current cycle among other things, and yes you did guess one thing right about Yomi, but there's a lot more factors to all the possible routes there.
You'll be surprised by how crazy EB gets as soon as you replay it, a couple of worlds are a bit underbaked compared to the rest, the monster race is a bit underwhelming compared to GB/Frontier and they had to cut some worlds they planned in early dev because of budget constraints, but it's a genuinely impressive achievement in game design.
Its only indefensible flaw is the main menu UI, still have no idea how they failed so hard at something they got so right in previous games.

>>4095791
>The game is built on NG+ cycles, especially when it comes to Tsunanori, you need at least three cycles to get all of his story.

and from what I heard stuff you do as one character unlocks stuff for other characters so I am just going to rotate through the entire cast

>>4095748
I'd say three; Katarina, Mikhail and Sarah .

What’s the best party setups for each of the eight protagonists?

>>4095850
1) first playthrough where you learn how to play
2) second playthrough where you master the 'standard' battle system. Khalid is probably a better choice than Katarina since he has that extra dungeon. For Katarina and Julian/Monika you can just play the intro.
3) third playthrough where you master the commander mode battle system. Mikhail is perfect for this since you also want to see his minigames.
4) Sara lets you try out a hybrid commander mode for one fight. You don't get auto-healing but you can use staves of vivacity and support magic except no hasten time. However it's hard to justify an entire playthrough that will be mostly the same as your previous runs until that point. Maybe it would be best to pick Sara for the first playthrough? But I think you should just pick anyone (minus Mikhail) rather than worrying about this at the start.

>>4096096
depends how much you grind

>>4094142
>>4094948
i've only ever beaten the Dragon guarding some treasure using Commander Mode. late game, i don't need it at all.

lore-wise, i think ComMode only makes sense in Katarina and not-Michael's route, since they're suppose to be the future queen and king?

>>4094973
>3 has the weakest ost out of all RS games
i haven't heard the others but Vanguard and Thomas' Theme are great. so was the final boss fight theme.

>>4094346
i guess it would just be like Lute in SF1, where you can just kick out the MC out of the main team whenever you like, while fights still play the same normal NOT-commander way.
>>4095748
>play blind.
not the way it was meant to be played. everyone who says this BS is either a bot who copy pasted this BS, or already know the systems like the back of their hand. read the fucking manual at least. learn to fucking read, you damn zoomers(if you're not a bot). fuck off outta here.

>>4096096
depends on your playstyle? like what some said, the whole game CAN BE played in Commander mode if you really wanna, and that mode works better with certain characters who can make use of the special Commander Mode Techs. also more practical to use in boss fights if you pick an MC with weak stats like Sarah.

However Sarah is biggest pain in the anus to use because of lowest starting HP, not just because of weak stats. Main/sub quests unlock based on the MC's HP. so you would need to spend more time grinding to beat the game. and i think Commander Mode won't increase Sarah's HP??? unless the remake changes all that...

Katarina and Khalid have the best stats and starting HP.

>>4093580
>but DU is an undoubtable admission that they never gave a shit and just want to make money.
brah the worse corpos and indies don't care about making money at all. they kept pumping out woke games no real gamer(paying customer) asked for, and screech about "incels" when their games flop.

>>4096271
>Sarah ... lowest starting HP
Monika starts with lower hp but more con. Ellen starts with higher hp but less con.
You gain more HP if your con is higher, with better gains after each multiple of four. So e.g. if you have a character with 14 con you would benefit from equipping the titan suit (+2 con).
>Main/sub quests unlock based on the MC's HP
It won't stop you from beating the main game, just some side quests. You won't be able to do Muse's dream until you've powered up a fair bit and the HP requirement for the snowman stuff is high enough that you might beat the game without unlocking it.
>Commander Mode won't increase Sarah's HP???
HP and support bonus are the only things your commander will increase.
>Katarina and Khalid have the best stats and starting HP.
Mikhail has more HP than Katarina.
>worse corpos and indies don't care about making money at all
Yes there are many developers who sacrifice money to make intentionally bad games out of spite. I don't like those. But I don't care how much money the developers make, I want them risk bankruptcy in order to make a game I want to play.
In the case of ROTS the developers followed their own creative vision instead of mindlessly following SaGa conventions and it turned out well.

>>4096541
>In the case of ROTS the developers followed their own creative vision
Mindlessly copying a bunch of mechanics from other games without understanding what they're doing points to a critical lack of creative vision.
>instead of mindlessly following SaGa conventions
But they did mindlessly follow SaGa conventions, that's the problem.
They used a barely functional timeline system just because recent SaGa games had it, not because they wanted it or knew what they were doing with it.
They reused the same exact sparking system from RS2 and then added some arbitrary limitations to the master system that completely misses the point, not because they had a creative vision but because they do not understand how those systems work and why they were there, and on top of it they also added a visible tree for tech sparking which again, shows how they just mindlessly copy some features and contradict them.
They added a generic burst gauge gimmick and renamed it Overdrive because Re:UniverSe had a similar feature with the same name and EB also had a universal Overdrive mechanic but completely different in nature and against the series' philosophy.
Then they arbitrarily cut out some SaGa features and added things from Octopath Traveler, the CTB, the weakness system, it's all mindlessly copypasted with no rhyme or reason other than trying to cater to as many people as possible.
And the saddest thing is that no, the game didn't turn out well and wasn't even a success, it sold more compared to EB and got some minor buzz from casuals.
Octopath Traveler 1 alone, a completely new IP that also copies SaGa, has sold over 3M units and actually created a fanbase that buys the other games in the series, with just three games Octopath has already sold almost the same lifetime numbers of the SaGa series as a whole and spawned an entire visual style, that is an actual commercial success.

>>4096682
Meanwhile It's been two years and ROTS still hasn't managed to reach 1M and did not revive interest in the series either, all it got was some vague attention from casuals who ultimately aren't sticking around and buying the other games, they are at best asking for the rest of the games to be remade in the same style as ROTS and straight out refuse to play anything else.
And it's not suprising in the least, because ROTS isn't a real SaGa game outside of the brand name and some mindlessly copypasted features that don't actually recreate the same big picture, people who like ROTS are not interested in getting into the real SaGa games because the design philosophy is completely different and it's hard to blame them.
It's as if Will Ford Jr. woke up one day, picked a Toyota, slapped a Ford badge and steering wheel on it to convince people to buy more Fords and then wondered why people keep buying those Toyotas with the Ford badge and refuse to buy all the Focus, Mustangs and what have you.

This isn't how you save a niche IP with an ageing userbase, if you refuse to actually sell people that IP, the real deal, and give them some poorly made clone that barely even resembles the original and doesn't have much to do with every game made prior to that outside of maybe GB SaGa 3 you're not saving anything, you are at best creating a derivative spinoff subseries that tries to ingratiate the audience of a younger, already established franchise that would most likely not stick around and prefer to play the real thing.
>Inb4 muh self proclaimed longtime fans on teh interwebz overwhelmingly like it tho
Thousands of "Longtime fans" that mysteriously show up all of a sudden for one game, make vague claims about legitimacy and how said game is sooo good and so much better than the original and then not only ignore everything else but ask for games to be remade in the same style that doesn't follow the rest of the series' ethos are not longtime fans, or fans at all.

>>4096682
>>4096685
The new mechanics mesh well with rs2's design and enhance the experience. Shame that it didn't sell well but the important thing is that it appeals to me not to millions of other people. And if it sold well enough to greenlight this RS3 remake, why do extra sales even matter? I'm not a shareholder, I just want to play good games.
You bring up an important distinction between people who aren't really fans and "true fans". The "longtime SaGa players on the internet" merely play games that they think are good, which SaGa games happen to fall under, whereas the "true fans" are defined by cult-like devotion to the IP regardless of game quality. Evidently ROTS increased the former group but not the latter.

>>4096707
>The new mechanics mesh well with rs2's design and enhance the experience.
They don't mesh well though, if they did they wouldn't have straight out erased several signature game mechanics to make those new mechanics work, but kept them together with the new mechanics they introduced, like the other remakes did by the way.
When Kawazu remade SaGa 3 he did not take out the signature elements of that game like the hybrid races, he just kept the core mechanics, tweaked a couple of things and just added stuff on top of it all, stuff that actual SaGa games do like a heavily modified version of SNES RS1 weapon system, meanwhile ROTS just completely erased entire mechanics like how armor works, completely changed the beloved core combat system that has been a thing in all the previous SaGa games and stole a bunch of mechanics from other games, which is anathema to a series that made a point in making things its own way and not follow conventions.
They don't enhance anything either since they just fundamentally change how everything related to combat works and don't change it for the better either, in fact most of the mechanical changes like the new BR are direct downgrades, even the saving system got downgraded.
>The "longtime SaGa players on the internet" merely play games that they think are good
I suppose you "longtime fans" think no SaGa game but ROTS is good then given you're factually not buying anything else.
>whereas the "true fans" are defined by cult-like devotion to the IP regardless of game quality.
Which is why, among many things related to previous controversial games like Unlimited, they complain about ROTS's problems with actual arguments and knowledge about how the series historically does things while you "longtime fans" just post empty platitudes and try to shut down discussions with no true scotsman bullshit and trying to take some vague moral highground?
You might not be a shareholder, but you share the same exact kind of vileness.

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Have you found any nymph statues?

I find it interesting that those who tell people to play the remake also say that people should just skip the originals. I personally think that people should play all of them. It’s important to get people into the series, but also acknowledge that the recent remakes aren’t going to be your typical SaGa experience. Play both, and you’ll cone out a better player who’s informed with the design principles of each games.

I doubt people who started with the remake would play the rest lol

>>4096727
I should do a playthrough where I do this quest instead of desperately try to avoid bumping into this girl.

>>4096866
This is my first playthrough, I don't know where to find this bitch's statues or get any hint on it, and she keeps finding me....

EVERYWHERE

And she won't stop.

(Don't give me the solution and I refuse to look it up. That and for the 20,000G Ice Sword I'm suppose to buy where I believe there's probably a way to get it for free)

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>>4096900
>Don't give me the solution and I refuse to look it up.
One of us, that's how you know people get what these games are about and can vibe with it.
Keep on trucking brother, explore, write notes and try to figure out the puzzle and all the ways to solve it.

>>4096900
well the nymph statue quest is one of the few that never expires so don't feel too pressured.

>>4096849
I tell people to play RS2 after playing RS2:ROTS because RS2 is also great. I don't tell people to play RS1 after playing Minstrel Song.

>>4096978
RS1 has enough unique features to warrant a playthrough, especially coming from MS. stuff like characters moving from set bars to next based on event rank and no fast travel everywhere makes it a whole different experience, especially for characters like jamil who are stuck in estamir until you hit certain ER and was it hawke or sif appear in one of the bars. sure, it has a slew of underbaked and buggy features like wallet/jewels, weapon levels, the never ending formation shuffling and knocked out forever instead of LP system but it's still a functional game worth experiencing.

>>4096978
>>4096988
Imo the best way to enjoy what RS1 has to offer is to play it after you got at least a couple of classic games like RS2/3, Frontier and possibly MS under your belt so you can see how the series got on its feet and started trying to set a lot of things in stone, and failing a lot at it.
It's possible to start with it or play in a release order without skipping it, but I doubt most people in 2026 would be able to look at it with an open mind even compared to the GB games which were much more feature complete, straightforward and with less hiccups, I also think you should at least try to play it at some point if you really end up liking the series because it makes the jump to RS2 and MS look even more impressive.

>Heard Destinies United allows you to recruit any character in any route
>Think it's kinda lame
>replaying SaGa Frontier 1
>can't make the teams that I want because of route limitations
Ok, maybe it's not that bad of an addition.

Give me one reason to touch the unc versions of these games

Mind you I played pixelslop on shit like the gameboy or emulated games on the gamecube

I don't want jank

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So, was this "exiled in shame" or "summarily executed"?

>>4097047
They're actual SaGa games and they're also still good to this day
>I don't want jank
You are on a board dedicated to the single most janky genre in videogame history, if you can play GB games then you can play the SNES games just fine especially in their modern remaster versions

>>4097047
>I don't want jank
anon even the least janky game out of all romancing games (RS2 remake) still has janks if you look past the surface
RS3 has janks like protags max hp decides what quest, herman in general and that volcano vs undine quest but as long as you speak to literally everyone in every town the janks aren't too bad even when playing blind

>>4097047
>I don't want jank
SaGa isn't for you

>>4096978
>>4096988
>>4097014
I think the remakes are alright but my concern is if there's a new, bigger budget SaGa (like if they ditch the color naming and tabletop movement and want to make a something like "Romancing 4" or whatever) they take too many cues from the remakes. Would be a real Monkey's Paw situation.

>>4098202
>new, bigger budget SaGa (like if they ditch the color naming and tabletop movement and want to make a something like "Romancing 4" or whatever)

This is so unlikely you might as well just take your meds and forget about it

>>4098215
I'm not saying big budget, just a larger scale game. Never say never - would not have guessed these remakes would be a thing. But yes it's not worth making a stink about.

>>4098202
We already know the next SaGa mainline will ditch the tabletop format and go back to a more traditional formula.
Whether Kawazu will compromise remains to be seen, he's been unshakeable up to now but the simple fact that these remakes exist under his watch is a sign that he's not what he used to be, either that or he too is wishing on a monkey paw to ride the money wave and sacrifice his own director's cut version of some older entries to fuel his last projects.

For all the bitching about the remakes changing things and dumbing them down, they still mog every other JRPG on the market
A watered down, handicapped casualized SaGa game is STILL the top of the genre

>>4098574
>he's been unshakeable up to now
A lot of the Remasters have features/changes that Kawazu approved that go against the original vision of the games.
SaGa Frontier Remastered allowing you to flee any battle with no penalty whatsoever is arguably stupider than anything Xeen did with RotS for example.
Emerald is also a lot more streamlined than Scarlet.
So I would hardly say he is "unshakeable".

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I'm guessing this is one of those "fixed stat" bosses that doesn't change regardless of what Event Rank you're at (it's the dragon in the Captain Silver Cave)? I have no idea to "guess" when I'll be equipped (equipment wise) enough to handle it yet, but it's probably close to the end of the game.

Sucks, because I had to go through that shit like three times. One attempt to get to figure out the cave, another retry attempt where I got to the treasure at the end and found out I basically NEED the disarm traps proficiency because I couldn't handle the monsters that spawn out of the chests that you have to open before the gate, and then one with those proficiencies where I got wiped.

I have a save beforehand so I can revert all the resources it took to get me there, or I can run with the treasure, ignore the boss, and come back later. Going through it backwards would be hell though, because I suck at avoiding those large monster rooms with like 7/8 of them in one clump without lucking out on Move Silently (LVL2) and pulling one or two out to smoke bomb them away so I don't get force chained into a 3-chain encounter.

Are you basically forced to use Light Wall when you get it ? I reached second form Roku bucket on my second run, she trounced me hard

>>4098783
Nah. Rocbouquet's attacks are mostly wind based so having the Iris class with her abilty unlocked and making her the tank could make your life easier. If you're playing the original/remaster, I believe her attacks are CO based so you have the Nereid class on top of the Iris class to help deal with those attacks.

>>4098783
>>4098798
I am mistaken. Blades of wind is SL SH while Lighting is BO. I recommend using Air Screen and Missile Shield spell.

for unlimited i wonder if its going to be a remaster like the frontier duology with QoL and tweaks made to balance and addition content/fleshed out stuff that had to get cut from the original or if they're going to overhaul and possibly remake the entire thing from scratch. I love unlimited to death especially since its my first SaGa game but it can get silly real fucking fast

>>4099004
I hope they keep QoL additions to minimal and just add in game tutorials or reading material. and maybe stuff like letting characters opt out of panels and giving mythe access to chapa village.

>>4098955
>>4098798
>original/remaster
You won't fight the 2nd form rocbouquet unless you're super overleveled at which point strategy doesn't matter
First form rocbouquet only uses single target attacks and temptation, so if you just use mist cover on male characters you'll win easily even with gerard

https://youtu.be/nStZ-3bOk40
Nanoda

>>4099050
I'd say it still matters because not a lot of armor has BO resistance. Having Twilight Robe or Dragon Armor helps.

>>4098619
>SaGa Frontier Remastered allowing you to flee any battle with no penalty whatsoever
That was something they actually wanted for the OG but the programming team couldn't figure out how to load and unload all the assets fast enough with the limited amount of RAM on the PS1 so rather than having long loading times they decided to cut the function altogether.
Even if this wasn't the case though, if you really think that is more offensive than CTB combat or dumbed down BR I can't say I agree with that, one thing is making some concessions, another is completely gutting multiple longstanding systems without even offering something better than the previous ones in return.
An actual example of compromising would be RS2's remaster removing the original fog of war filter while dashing.
Hard disagree on EB being more streamlined than SSG too, the progression structure is simply different and arguably branching off of what SSG achieved, mind you I still fundamentally dislike the emerald waves and don't want to see it ever again, but I did change my mind it a fair bit once I understood it more and saw how it wasn't just yellow paint but green or blue.
>>4098660
You guessed right, if you really know what you're doing you can beat the Silver Dragon at low ER, it's a good challenge on replays.
There's a bunch of powerful fixed encounters in the early game here and there which are meant to kick your ass and humble you, as you get better at the game you'll learn how to deal with them.

>>4099589
>You guessed right, if you really know what you're doing you can beat the Silver Dragon at low ER, it's a good challenge on replays.

Do any of them, "lock you into it" without a warning randomly? This one is viewable on the model and you have to walk into it to even fight it. It's not a surprise thing that catches you off guard randomly, so you can obviously "tell" it's special that way. It also doesn't give you a game over when you lose to it, just a "come back stronger" message.

I'm actually debating whether I should just load the save before I even started the dungeon and go back. That or take the oodles of money from the treasure, take the ER hit on any battles I have to fight if I run out of covert/stealth proficiencies and smoke bombs, and come back later as well.

(There's like 5 rooms I'd have to backtrack through, and like 2 of them have big choke points with like a horde of 6-7 enemies tangled together)

>>4099810
No, none of them lock you into their dungeon so don't worry about that, there will be some backtracking but the Silver Dragon is the only real offender when it comes to that.
Also in the remaster you're warned in advance whenever a questline has points of no return from which you cannot escape unless you beat the quest.
>I'm actually debating whether I should just load the save before I even started the dungeon and go back
It's up to you man, Silver's cave has some okay loot but admittedly it's kind of annoying to trek all the way there and back just for the chests, as you will learn there's better places to get tons of money early on.
Some of these fixed encounters are also sorta hidden, like the one in the abandoned keep, so it's actually kinda easy to miss them entirely if you don't take your time to snoop around.

>>4098660
all of the dragons and the 4 great beasts are fixed stats, i think

>>4099065
>chipping away bloated health bar takes so long they have to jump minutes forward during the bosses
good grief

>>4100674
I know what you're trying to get at, but I have never seen a boss fight preview by this page that has actually demonstrated the entire fight.
They did DQ7R which has a bunch of fairly short boss fights and they still skipped around for whatever reason. I'm certain that by the time you get to Gwayne in the actual game, you'll easily be able to blitz him with a halfway decent team.

>>4100780
it's still incredibly boring to watch a 4300 attack do 1/25th of boss health. that's another reason why rounds are better because you'd have 5 times more damage per turn.

>>4100954
You're still watching each individual attack going off one at a time and doing a % of the enemy's HP pool. The difference is that rounds make you input everything at once and ctb makes you do it one at a time. For weak trash, only needing to input the command of the fast sweeper would be a bit faster. For bosses, it honestly depends.

The correct answer for speed concerns would be just implementing animation speed up or turning them off entirely. Along with auto battle but I know a lot of people get upset about the idea of auto battle existing.

If you are bothered by boss battles taking a long time, outside of some meme shit like FFXII's Hell Wyrm, you probably shouldn't be playing RPGs.

An RPG is a game of attrition and resource management, not puzzle games where you instantly win as soon as you figure out the gimmick.

>>4100674
They also removed rolls for proficiencies and downgraded to an EXP system, the animations are 90% recycled from ROTS and they still can't be bothered to make characters actually emote or have dynamic camera angles because that would also show those fish eyed lifeless dolls that move all in the same way.
It's just cheap garbage that plays less and less like SaGa, the fact that they also turned Charl into an NPC that follows you around when everyone complained about Pajama Gerard standing in the way and being a pain in the ass in ROTS shows just how much they care.
The fact that enemies still lack actual animations for most attacks and look ugly as shit again is the cherry on top of the shit cake, imagine not animating Gwayne's fire breaths and just cutting to a closeup of the party staggering through some shitty PNGs.
>>4100983
There's nothing interesting in slowly chipping away a helpless boss' HP bar while filling up your BIG DAMAGE bar.
It devalues techs and spells, it homogenizes combat around one correct answer and it feels horribly patronizing, it's also not how SaGa does things either on top of all the other changes.
>>An RPG is a game of attrition and resource management
Too bad Xeen's games have neither and also play like shit.

>>4101002
Looking at the trailers and TGS footage, the character abilities do damage-related things, such as attacks doing 20% more damage when boss HP is 50%, or gaining 2% damage per turn capping at 20%. I feel like the name of the game in the upcoming remake is damage stacking.

>>4100983
It's the visual metric that bothers me. The encounter letting you know immediately that alright this is going to take a while. To me this is enforced boredom. I don't mind the egg in SF2 being like 20 minutes. Same with chaos ruler in unlimited. Because those keep you guessing how far you're into the fight and I'm always focused on the current turn rather than how much there's left to the encounter.

>>4101064
ROTS best passives were also about damage stacking, but in there best way to stack damage is to gamble on your OD not depleting.
DU looks like it might be based on Y2-3 passives from Re:U.
What worries me is that damage passives that lock their full bonus behind being forced to wait multiple turns is often a fix to systems that allow people to blitz bosses too easily, which was the case in ROTS, so they force players to sandbag through damage checks for a while before they can blitz the boss.
Re:U was exactly like that at some point, they forced that passive design because the previous meta was about stacking multiple stat buffs with party buffers like the matriarch to make your party avoid all attacks and statuses, so they indirectly nerfed stat buffs and changed passive design in order to make sure characters would only achieve their peak condition after a certain number of rounds passed, it was a way to give bosses a chance to kill you but all it achieved was tedium.

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>>4100674
likely everyone uses shit equips there so battle takes longer in order to show battle system better but they fucked up and fairy has the second highest hp too which makes me think 3 chars are very underleveled here
man seeing the recycled animations sucks that the game felt like a huge RS2 remake mod than a RS3 remake, can't be helped i guess when saga is stuck with shoestring budgets forever gotta have more funds to release next shitty FF games

>>4100674
>>4101857
Once you can optimize strategies like in RS2 those health bars will melt even on the hardest difficulty. Especially once you get Boston and Elephant.

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Anyone else use this?

>>4101987
I used to, but I prefer the one for Romancing SaGa 2 since it's better for mobile browsing. Japanese wikis are of course, better. My favorite section is probably the one about the Remaster's localization.

>>4101354
they really fucked up rsrs in such a short time, surprised the japanese still play it

>>4096096
For commander mode: Bai Meiniang, Ward, Nora, Robin. High damage and LP.
Fairy and Undine are good for a while. Khalid is useful early on but his first weapon slot is reserved for curved swords and he can't get his special sword if he isn't the MC.

Without commander mode: main character, Robin, Fairy, Undine, Black/Boston/?
Robin is strong, fast, and has enough MP for hasten time cheese. Fairy is strong and super fast. Undine has water magic. Black is underwhelming but he's a physical attacker that starts with some MP. He can also do some healing with staves of vivacity. Boston is a cool phys+magic unit but you have to get the silver hand and train his sword or axe level up from zero if you want to get the most out of him. Alternatively you can simply train strong units like Ward/Nora/Khalid to 16mp so they can participate in the hasten time chain.
And while she won't make the final team if you want to spam hasten time, Bai Meiniang will carry your team through earlier bosses.

If you grind excessively the differences between characters will be minimized. You probably want one strong character to use tiger break, one fast character to start the hasten time chain, and the rest can use doppelslasher or round slicer. Some characters' unique attributes might eventually outweigh their initial flaws e.g. Snowman's immunities, Elephant's high LP and ability to equip spear+shield.

i used commander mode extensively as sarah

>>4101857
Let's be real, these remakes have a much higher budget than mainline or even other SE stuff like Team Asano's games but there's still not even a fraction of the attention to style and detail you can see in the real games because they are cheaply made and waste money on shit nobody asked for to draw in the normalfags while cutting out the important stuff like commander mode or even basic SaGa game mechanics

>>4101857
>>4102325
Asset/animation reuse is given in modern game development, especially with games that "shorter" turn around time. However, you can notice some touch ups like them bothering to include the little twirl on the third hit of Triple Supremacy. They've also continued to do what they did from RoTS where major boss intros will include their sprite pose before it transitions into the real fight which is something I've seen quite a few Japanese fans praise. Similarly, actually bothering to show the Eternal Ice on Snowman's body and Fairy's spear being way to big for her are worth mentioning as well. I'd like for them to have another set of animations for Silver Hand Sharl.

>>4097388
Seppuku.

>>4097388
resignation, ESL retard

>>4100954
>it's still incredibly boring to watch a 4300 attack do 1/25th of boss health
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pyskOFzkczQ
I watched this happen live.

Thinking about playing Minstrel Song and I really like Gray's design, how bad is it that I want to use him first given that everyone seems to suggest otherwise?

>>4102833
you can recruit him as other characters, but i don't know anything about why people would say not to pick him, and in general you should either ignore or rather outright do the opposite of whatever "most people" say about any saga game ever

Was trying to platinum the remaster of the original but stalled out on my third playthrough. It's crazy that you need to play through 8 times.

>>4093029
Isn't the weakest the first game?

>>4093149
>>4093252
Oh hell no

>>4102900
if your goal was just to get the trophy you could speedrun ng+ seven times
Or you could just replay rs3 every now and then and the trophy will come naturally in a decade or so

>>4102833
Gray is the second most freeform character of the game after Barbara, let’s say he is not the best one to learn the game. But if you want to use him anyway go for it.
Gameplay is pretty much typical Saga, with some exceptions : proficiencies (google it), and forge (and Gray requires you use that mechanism).

any censorship fear?

>>4103269
fully censored confirmed

>>4103269
>>4103289
you can get around the censorship by using DLSS

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maybe MS wasn't that good.
https://web.archive.org/web/20060628213353/http://www.largeprimenumbers.com/article.php?sid=saga

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>>4104469
>waah Kawazu big bad FF2 guy his games don't play exactly the same as every other JRPG I want my FF and DQ regurgitated and fed to me for the 1000th time
next

>>4104469
>Tim Rogers

Real talk. The modern ports of RS2 and 3 are FUCKING DOGSHIT, making the remakes the obvious way to play them. Someone vibe code proper SNES translations of the games.

>>4104648
>Someone vibe code proper SNES translations of the games.
Better yet, why doesn't someone recomp/decomp the snes versions of 1 2 and 3?

Why don't they make Romancing SaGa 4?

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>>4104469
while i personally think MS is the second worst romancing games only behind RS1 this review is pretty ass lmao
a retard that already dislikes saga games and prefers standard jarpigs reviewing another saga games is like a nigga who hates reading reviews VNs

>>4104835
They might.

>>4093029
Almost finished saga frontier 2 and didn't use the remaster mechanics. Difficult af jrpg. Great game and outstanding story telling and narrative structure. Is unlimited saga any good? Unsure about scarlet and ministrel, but will skip emerald 100%. Isn't there saga tactics on ps2?

>>4104835
they did.

>>4102413
Some intro I'll only look at once and then skip forever won't make me ignore how they completely butchered the game again and more extensively than RS2.
Yeah, they had the decency to give Snowman and Fairy a unique rig unlike what they did with the Nereids, but they still removed all the other characters' unique poses from the original and the only thing they added to make up for it is one barely animated victory pose that also alternates with the recycled ones from RS2, no party banter again, no facial expressions during attacks again, it's one small step forward and two big steps back that make all those memberberries feel shallow if not completely hollow.
>>4102833
He has his ups and downs.
As a character he's THE perfect allrounder, he also starts in a very good position and can get a lot of cash immediately, he also gets a pretty good unique katana if you complete his personal quest.
On the other hand finding the Falcata in the prologue might take a while and it might fuck up your early ER, his personal quest can also be very frustrating as you need to know where to look for forging materials.
>>4104648
>Remasters bad...because they just are
>The obvious way to play RS2 and RS3 is to play the octopathized demakes that are barely like the OGs anymore
Fuck off

>>4105172
Unlimited is one of the more unique and divisive entries. Personally, I hate slot reels mechanics which makes it intolerable to play, but I wouldn't say it's a bad game. Minstrel Song is my favorite game in the series, so I don't advise skipping it.

>Isn't there saga tactics on ps2?
I think you're getting the series mixed up with Suikoden or something.

>>4105172
Unlimited has a decent game underneath the unintuitive UI and the obnoxiously decisive knowledge checks. The game is actively setting you up for failure in multiple different ways from start to finish. And when you get to the final boss that you have zero chance beating the game has no interest in telling you how to improve your next run. The game is still enjoyable blind if you just go in with the mindset that you probably wont clear the game on your first, second or third attempt.

>>4105619
A big problem with Unlimited is that outside of being one of the most cryptic games in the series the general game balance is also one of the worst in the series.
The vast majority of enemies and quests are too easy and then there's a bunch of relatively crazy difficulty spikes here and there that don't really help you understand much about the underlying systems until you've spent a lot of hours fidgeting with stuff.
I also have mixed feelings about the reel, on one hand I love the idea of a symbolic dice roll in a game that is all about funky tabletop abstraction, on the other hand I really dislike timed hit mechanics in RPGs and the reel is sorta both.
And it's such an integral part of the game's identity and mechanics that you can't just get rid of it without fundamentally changing the game, it's the only thing in the game that I have no idea how they can fix outside of solving some basic issues like elemental panels giving no tangible rewards for casters.

>>4105717
I think one of the main factors for the reel feeling like ass is it spinning in choppy 30fps. Average reaction speed isn't made for the visual part of the reel which is why players gravitate towards the reel reset tech to get the correct timing.

>>4105757
Yeah, there's a lot of things wrong with it and you're absolutely right that locking the animation to 30FPS was a crucial mistake.
And if previous remasters are anything to go by I doubt they'll change that either.

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Deciding between getting Saga Frontier 1 or 2 but seems to me a lot of people dislike 2, is it bad?

>>4105458
>characters' unique poses from the original
almost everyone does very simillar kicking pose during move selection with slight variance of their arms + very simillar victory pose with each other counts as unique i guess but you are extremely nitpicking if THIS is something you unironically complained
>no party banter
RS3 doesn't have this are you mistaking saga for tales or something
no, their unique quote pre destroyer fight doesn't count
>no facial expression
RS3 doesn't have this too, i think RS2 remake has it but very basic tho this one is fair because imagine jarpig in 2027 without decent expression range
you are the same schizo who bitched about RS2 remake every single thread isn't it

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>>4104469
Not only is this review complete shit, but Tim Rogers literally has stated later on that Romancing SaGa Minstrel Song is actually awesome, so even he was just bullshitting at the time.

>>4106220
Bullshitting is a big part of Tim Rogers’ brand.

>>4106204
yep it's the same guy, he's an ESL who hasn't even played the original games

>>4106271
>>4106204
Yes it's the same guy who tried to compare ROTS to the original RS2 and got concrete facts about the original RS2 wrong over and over again.

The thing to understand is that he's operating on a tribal cult mentality, not making arguments in good faith. Rather than judging the games as good or bad on their merits he identified that the RS2&RS3 remakes are "not true SaGa". Therefore any lies or misrepresentations are justified in order to disparage them. Meanwhile the SaGa gacha mobile games are considered part of the series so he'll defend them to the death.

He posts as much as the rest of /vrpg/ combined when there isn't any SaGa related news going on so he's been pretty effective at what he's trying to do.

>all that headcanon
amazing the mental gymnastics that demake shills will go through to try to defend the debasement of the original source material via fucking ad hominem strawman projection piloul of all things

A recurring pattern with the ESL that is very telling is how the vast majority of his "issues" with RotS are shit that wasn't present in either version of RS2. (I have to assume this is why he brought up party banter out of nowhere.)
By that metric, I could complain about all the features missing from SG or EB that were in Minstrel Song, which is a fucking PS2 game.
But I'm not a disingenuous faggot, so I know that's not a serious way to argue about a game's design.

>strawmans even harder
さすが

>>4105458
Correct, the remasters are complete and total dogshit. Disgusting stock 2D assets, 30 FPS, clunky movement, clunky UI. They're shit.

>>4106192
Whether it's good or bad depends on your taste, the Frontier games are almost completely different from each other but both were well received back in the days and SF2's remaster in particular was very well received among fans of the original.
If you're unsure about it just pirate them and buy later if you like them, no shame in that especially in this economy.
>>4106204
All RS3 characters have unique sprites for their command selection, low HP, KO, damage and their spellcasting animations, meanwhile this remake not only doesn't have any of that but recycles the awful RoTS animations while gutting game design even more and asking 80 fucking bucks for early access AND forcing Denuvo on us AGAIN, something none of the other SaGa games did, if they dare set AAA prices then I want actual AAA quality instead of this cheap UE5 dogshit that doesn't even play like SaGa anymore.
Minstrel Song gave everyone a set of animations for every single game action or state depending on their body rig types, the Xeen remakes have a single male/female division despite having more than enough budget to have more, so yes I WILL complain about this AND all the other shit they keep pulling.
>RS3 doesn't have this are you mistaking saga for tales or something
Since you clearly don't play these games: We've had banter with characters calling each other, reacting to KOs, low health etc. since Unlimited SaGa all the way to Emerald Beyond where they also added party members cheering on each other whenever they get stats, roles or proficiencies.
Even TLR had party banter, the only modern entries that didn't were the DS remakes which didn't have VA, and SaGa 2 DS still added the threads of fate that change party dialogues during the story.
Meanwhile the Xeen remakes that have way bigger budgets and pricetags don't have any of this, and pretending it's okay because they're "remaking" old games isn't an excuse when Minstrel Song exists and had those features.

>>4106359
I wonder who's the one making arguments in bad faith and operating on a cult mentality, the mindbroken faggot who sucks any cock with the SaGa trademark stamped on it or the people who actually take their time to talk about the games by analysing their design and talking about them.
I judge these games according to both their own specific design taken on its own AND as remakes of older games and parts of the series since that's what they fundamentally are, I wrote five full posts at the end of the previous thread doing exactly that.
>Meanwhile the SaGa gacha mobile games are considered part of the series so he'll defend them to the death.
Except I criticized Re:U in this very thread, and I've been doing that for years for both Re:U and Imperial SaGa, so no, as far as -I- am concerned you're once again wrong but you have the bad habit of conflating multiple people into one boogeyman, or downright inventing them to push the narrative.
>He posts as much as the rest of /vrpg/ combined when there isn't any SaGa related news
Is that why the thread before this one lasted from mid march to mid september, you fucking clown? I've barely been on this dying website for nearly three years by now, but apparently I also post so fucking much that SaGa threads are so fast they last over half a year, whoopsiedoodle!

And I'm effective at what I do (according to you, I wouldn't know since I don't really post much in here anymore which can only mean that I either left major mental scars on people or somebody else is doing god's work) because unlike you and the other one or two mentally ill samefagging cunts in your little circlejerk I actually deal with facts and want to get people into this series for real rather than have them play some shitty knockoff and get the wrong ideas, I'm effective at what I do because I take my time to explain in depth why I say the shit I say, in actual good faith rather than try to shut down discourse with actual tribal bullshit like you do.

>>4106727
Do you think my issues with RoTS are just about the shit it's missing compared to the remake that set the standards for the series 20 years ago and not that AND all the other shit they, taking design decisions that directly contradict the game's writing in a way the original game didn't, refusing to change a lot of things that should have been updated and overall being a poorly made game at its core even without the issue that it does not fit with the rest of the series' design philosophy?
Do you think I would care about mediocre animations and artstyle if the actual game part wasn't shit?
I already had that conversation many times with people who are a lot more intelligent than you, which also managed to change my mind on some things, I have zero issues talking about this shit and I'd much prefer that to reading more of your passive aggressive shitposting and empty ad hominems that do nothing but kill conversation here, which let's be honest, is exactly what you want.
If you wanted to actually talk about shit you would insist on this passive aggressive whataboutism yet again.
>I could complain about all the features missing from SG or EB
Go on then, complain about all the "features missing" from fucking poverty budget games designer around poverty budgets, whatever they might be.
I'll listen to you and debate you on all of those, I'm the first who criticizes any of these games for a lot of the bad shit they did, like SSG limiting characters to one weapon or excessive streamlining in a couple of places and other bad design decisions which don't have anything to do with the budget either.
Go on an complain about whatever's missing from Minstrel Song and let's see how any of these compare to the Xeen remakes in terms of design, let's do this.
It's certainly going to be a better conversation than having you whine like a bitch again, you're not gonna make the Xeen remakes look better than what they are at the end of the conversation you want to have though.

>>4106765
Regarding "clunky movement" in RS2 remaster, are you referring to the transition time between walking and running? If that's the case, then I should note that in the original SFC version of RS2, there is a transition time where the screen would focus on the character when you're running, and you can't see anything else. In the remaster, this has been removed, but the transition time from walking to running is still present. Yeah, the remaster could've changed a bit with how movements work, as well as making some mechanics clearer like having a number for all defense types, a spark type chart, and a revised smithy so you don't need to engage in battles to rotate options for R&D.

However, the remaster also sped up animations so the battles are faster, and because the gameplay is the same as the original, you can play however you like. Offensively, defensively, and the battles are generally shorter because the enemy health is reasonable. People should really take the time to play games even if they're old and "clunky". You'll soon have an appreciation for what video games did then in terms of design.

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this upsets the uppity schizofag

>>4107129
>Not liking a remake that completely goes against the series established design makes you a schizo
I really don't care about this whole discourse, but you guys just act like such faggots over this shit

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>mfw the xuan battle theme plays

>>4107129
her ability looks meh after factoring +stat gears and such (meanwhile RS2 ninjawife gives easy +15% dps) maybe they are nerfing abilities for RS3 remake? i'm okay with that if true, some of RS2 remake abilities are abit too strong

>>4107196
You'd think RPG fans would be the ones who'd be thrilled to talk about game design in RPGs, and how that design is a part of the series' identity, but nope. Get too much into detail about a particular mechanic, and it's seen as nitpicking or autistic, like somehow this is on the same level as Chris Chan complaining that Sonic's arms are blue.

Ironically enough, I had more meaningful conversations about RPG design from arcadefags who think RPGs are a shitty genre by design. You cannot find anyone more passionate about game design than these guys. It's really sad that the people who think RPGs are a shitty genre have something meaningful to say about game mechanics, and meanwhile you have RPG fans calling others schizo or autistic because they dare to talk about game mechanics.

>>4107256
cry about it

>>4107279
Yep. Nothing meaningful to say. Maybe those arcadefags were doing me a favor by telling me to not play RPGs.

>>4107282
You're free to shit up their threads idk why you choose to bump a thread you don't like.

>>4107285
Are you even paying attention to what I'm saying? I do like this thread, and I like SaGa, it's just that I have an interest in arcade games too. But the reason I brought them up is because they're willing to have a discussion on game design, game balance, game mechanics. Why can't I expect the same from any other fan of any other genre?

I'll say this again: Game design discussion is a dying art. I wonder what game discourse would be like in the next decade.

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Might as well jump in wish me luck.

@4107293
bait, you just talk like this for (you)s

>Still adding nothing meaningful to the conversation
>Still not providing a reason why the mechanics in the games are fine
RPG fans are a joke. But don't mistake me for telling you or anyone not to enjoy or play the remakes. Go ahead and play them. Play all of them. I've been consistent on this. Better to have someone play the series than not.

>>4107301
>>4107279
>>4107129
It is pretty funny how you're the only person in this thread complaining about this supposed "SaGafag" though.
Not to mention, in all the years I've been in SaGa threads, be it on /v/ or the old /Sa·Ga/ general on /vr/, I've never seen someone rage as impotently as you have here over people daring to discuss game mechanics.

If you're a fairweather gamer, that's fine. Just don't be obnoxious about it and ruin every thread with your spam. Nobody wants SaGa threads to devolve into nu-/v/ shitposting.

I like talking to fairweather gamers because they have no agenda to push. They don't lie about games to manipulate me because they don't base their identities on their devotion to a video game series.
Sincerity is the most important thing.

>4107480
you're not fooling anyone

I’d honestly respect you more if you can make your case on why the mechanics in the remakes are okay. Me personally, I don’t mind building my team towards dealing the most damage because that’s how I always build my characters, and I don’t mind games that encourage me to deal the most damage, but this is not reflective of the gameplay of other games. That’s not to say you can’t minmax in the originals because you definitely can, but you can play however you want. Want an all magic team? Go right ahead. A team of just martial arts users, it’s viable. Want to run a formation where you act last but gain x2 defense? It’s possible, that’s how beat Wagnas at one point. In the remake, you’re encouraged to use a variety of weapons to cover as many weaknesses as possible to fill up your Overdrive gauge, and you want to act first to do a United Attack before enemies can get you, limiting (a little bit) on what the game expects you to play. You can still play however you want, but you have to be mindful on what weapons to bring, as well as using formations that increase SPD or using fast characters.

Again, I don’t mind this gameplay, and it has its benefits. It encourages you to switch around classes on your current generation. It’s a good way to get introduced to new classes without needing to LP kill one of your characters or wait next generation to try the newly recruited classes out, and if you don’t like that class, you can dismiss them and switch back to your old set up. In the original, you’d have to reload a save. But when compared to how you want to play, the original beats the remake in that department. So, it’s understandable why some people don’t like the remake. If you don’t find this post sincere, I don’t know what to tell you. I’m willing to have a discussion on game mechanics but so far, all you’ve been doing is dismissing what people have to say and call others names or claim that people are lying about the games.

The OD mechanic and enemy health is really just the point of contention for the remake. Remove OD and tune down the HP values and the game would be better off.

>>4107129
Sure does. Sure did.

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RS2 is great. Played it many times.

One of the most defining features is the way you go through a series of temporary parties until you reach the final generation. In addition to leveling your characters directly you also level up the weapon levels of your empire which are then used for later recruits. You unlock many new classes as you go through the game. There's an earlygame boss which is completely immune to blunt damage from martial arts, like a tutorial to show you that you'll need to train multiple types of weapons to overcome the game's obstacles. Unfortunately the game doesn't live up to that vision. While enemies have multiple defenses that difference is inconsequential outside of that one specific earlygame fight. It's a lot more efficient to spam a single weapon all game long (all you lose is a bit of sp on some characters). Games are satisfying when you overcome challenges with strategy, I don't want to play on journalist mode where I have the flexibility to do anything and still win.
Likewise for characters, most of them are totally useless. They don't offer anything to the empire except maybe a formation, so the only time they'll enter battle is to kill themselves. In a game like rs3 where you pick one party and stick with it I'm fine with using worthless characters but in a game where you expand your empire and go through multiple parties it's more satisfying to use temporary characters to unlock abilities. Plus being able to switch without having to kill characters is obviously nice.
There are barely any viable formations. Rapid stream to strike first, amazon raid because the system was bugged and gave it defense bonuses on top of attack and speed. It's also trivial to give the emperor a 100% counter rate.
In the original you go through dungeons fighting absolutely nothing because enemies are worthless. Or you kill enemies in one hit, but it feels like you wasted a sp recovery item for no reason.

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>>4108522
You won't even be able to see most of the enemies in the game unless you fight an unreasonably high number of battles. Some offer interesting droppable equipment but the drop rates are low and symbol encounters rarely have the monster you want. Remaster adds maze of memory to resolve this, though I typically play without bonus content.
Many of the game's spells are also too high level to unlock before the game ends.
There's a system in the original that increases your "battle count" during generation skips based on the number of years, so the BR does increase a little as you progress even if you avoid battles. Nice idea but basically inconsequential.
The remake fucked up the armor system. I get what they were going for, having a piece for each body part makes sense, but it loses the game aspect of a suit counting as a single item. And it was cool that certain classes had an extra piece of irremovable armor (it feels like a bonus unlike rs3 where it steals a slot from something better).

I really like rs2. It's a cool concept and I'm able to do my own gimmicky challenge runs to make teambuilding and battle strategies more interesting. Still it's great that ROTS "just works". ROTS stayed true to the original vision (of rs2 specifically, not SaGa generally) while attempting to address its shortcomings. And no one broke into my house and destroyed my copies of the old rs2 so I have no reason to cry about a sequel / spiritual successor / remake. Holy shit! Two cakes!

Anyway this is a rs3 thread. If DU repeats the same mechanics it will be enjoyable but it won't be as good as ROTS because rs3 is structured differently than rs2. In rs3 I pick a team and speed through the game, I don't know how that will fit with character abilities and enemy weaknesses.

>Decide to try out Scholar/None Thomas
>He has a ton of Int but has bad con and spd so it feels kind of underwhelming
Also, I forgot how crappy martial arts feels early on. Gotta figure out the fastest way to get better gear to maximize Ellen's performance.

>>4108560
Yeah I tried that too and was disappointed. I also tried to build his earth magic for hypergravity so he was even more useless early on. I'm thinking he would be better off with water magic, particularly if you dupe dolphin statues (equip it on a character, kick him out of your party, buy a replacement from the shop, activate vanguard, re-recruit the character you kicked out) since thunderclap does decent multi-target damage and you can use him alongside Undine so they both benefit from the water elemental field. Thomas will have terrible hp and mp though.
Also iirc there's some interaction between your character and Gwayne's damage in the Byunei fight so mage MCs perform badly there.

Martial arts are disappointing as well. There's a fair chance you'll finish the game without learning a good damage tech.

>>4108522
>There's an earlygame boss which is completely immune to blunt damage from martial arts
not sure what you're talking about, unless it's gel, since i played through it using only martial arts and magic, and either ki blast circumvents that or i sinply used magic to circumvent it

>>4108584
focusing on earth has some benefits but its just water gets thunderclap and berserk is one of those cool on paper meh in practice
>Martial arts are disappointing as well
reminds me of saga frontier because its like this too in there
might be decent early-midgame then falls off a cliff until credit rolls unless you can get the very last tech which suddenly makes martial arts the true team hardcarry

>>4108584
Okay, so the 5 strongest vanilla spells are
Hypergravity (1000)
Corona (400)
Tornado (300) + Crit vs Flying
Starfixer (220)
Thunderclap/Soulfreeze (180)

Dolphin Statue/Lobster Robe = +25% for Water
Sun Robe = +25% for Sun
Moon Robe = +25% for Moon
Archfiend = +25% for All but increased costs
Commander Mode also gives a passive damage for magic as well.

So I'm feeling like despite all the hype, the actual best mc for a magic run is Sara because you have to raise her in Commander mode anyway.

>>4108748
Did some more research
https://romancing-saga-3.blogspot.com/p/rs3-magic.html?m=1

The key points, trying to cast magic offensively is a waste of time if you dont have at least 19 Mag.
Wind and Water Magic are stronger than you'd think. Wind has good modifiers and Water has a generically easy to access damage modifier in Dolphin Statue/Lobster Robe.

Magic does matter more than spell level but there's diminishing returns as spell level goes up. Nevertheless, its still a massive difference. For example 23 Mag/Water 50 is comparable to 30 Mag/Water 30.

So the best mages among the MCs are Thomas, Sara, Ellen and Mikhail.
Scholar/Hunter + None/Epee/Mace are what we want. Tweak based on your tolerance for Spd/Con.

>>4107217
You gotta look at the big picture.
In a vacuum a +2 to everything for hitting weaknesses doesn't feel significant, but RS3 has many items that give bonus stats.
Add a power glove and a fang charm and you're getting +5 STR, slap a Koryu armor in there and you get +6 STR and +3 to everything else and god knows what they will do to items in this remaster, if they keep the busted rings from the phantom maze then we're looking at something like +10 STR/10INT or more which is insane in a system where 25 is the natural hard cap.
And mind you this is just the equipment+passive side, add buffs like Paean of Victory and you snowball into +20 territory if they keep the same buff scaling from the original.

Then we have to consider that you will be able to stack this with other passives, unless they significantly rework the math behind calculations this looks like a potentially good passive.
The more evident problem is that all of this points out to OD being yet again the core function of the battle system with everything else being an afterthought, and if they let us build meter and keep it outside of fights again then it's gonna be yet another shitshow where you charge up OD in trash fights, go up to any boss and eat up 40-70% of their HP in the first turn, solving the fight instantly.
>>4108524
>Still it's great that ROTS "just works". ROTS stayed true to the original vision (of rs2 specifically, not SaGa generally) while attempting to address its shortcomings.
I can't really agree on this and some other points you made, but I appreciate the writeup and arguments.
Design wise ROTS is, with some small exceptions, fundamentally worse than the original and not true to the original vision either outside of some vague surface level, there's too many decisions that show a critical failure in understanding the writing and systems at play if not a deliberate disregard thereof, the way they copypasted Octopath Traveler's combat model clearly shows as much.

>>4093029
I've been playing romancing SaGa Scarlet Grace Ambition and I gotta say it's pretty fun and pretty challenging. Also Urpina is pretty nice.

Is revenge of the seven worth getting into?

>>4109306
Yeah. I may have my complaints about the Overdrive mechanic, but the game overall is still serviceable. I would recommend playing the original after playing the remake though. Both offer different styles of turn-based combat which I find hard to describe. It basically involves when moves are performed, where a move in the remake is performed after choosing one for your individual character while the moves in the original are performed after you choosing one for all your characters.

>>4109306
yes
costs abit more than it should imo but overall worth it because this and its original version are one of the very rare generation based jarpig, probably the best one at that
recommended playing at hard/classic though early on can feel very unfair
>>4108949
something i forgot to mention this only works after hitting weakness so that +2 str is wasted unless multihit attacks can work arround this. silver lining is game doesn't tell you if its stackable or not so there is a possibility it becomes busted with specific setups

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Playing ROTS for the first time, have I bricked myself from accessing Cape Chalier by intimidating the guard when getting into the corsair hideout, or is there another way to unlock it?
I did that with my second Emperor when I still wasn't looking anything up and by now I'm on my fourth and it's too late to go back...

>>4108656
The main appeal of earth magic is novelty since no recruitable character is good at using it. Water is great for healing, attacking, defense with water column, and hasten time cheese.
Unfortunately if you're relying on thunderclap for damage against the final boss you risk getting confused and wiping out your own team. So either focus on healing or cheese that part of the fight with hasten time.

>berserk
There's a broken setup involving berserk and you don't need to level up earth magic for it. Give everyone on your team berserk, spam it on one character for a bit (buffs stack), then end the fight with that character while the buffs are still fresh (buffs degrade over time). Then replace berserk with hasten time and never let the enemy get a turn as you spam doppelslasher with your massive attack stat. Alternatively you can achieve the same effect by borrowing the magic stat from Gwayne.
I think doppelslasher is cool on its own but borrowing stats from a previous battle is too much jank for me. Plus you need to repeat the setup if you turn the game off.

>>4108748
If I'm reading this right you're saying "don't bother, use commander mode instead"? Sounds reasonable. Although I'm not sure about going full commander mode in a Sara playthrough since her final boss fight is different. And if you're not relying on her for battle you might as well maximize her hp&con.
>>4108791
Yeah you get a pretty significant damage increase if you use characters with high mag and buff their mag further. It scales linearly then starts to ramp up at 21 mag. So while you could sacrifice 3-4 int to get 16 con and better hp, it kinda defeats the purpose if you don't go thomas/scholar/none.

>>4109306
yes

>>4109570
You get
1.25x from formation
1.25x from equipment
1.25x from field
1.39x from support character

Everyone could theoretically benefit from the last part, but there's a big Shonen shaped elephant in the room during the endgame that punishes everyone except for Sara who tries to rely on it.

As for Thomas;
24 Mag/20 Spd (Hunter/Epee) vs 27 Mag/14 Spd (Scholar/None)
Suppose that both have a Spell Level of 30.

>Wind
C = (30 + 11)/2 = 20.5
>Else
C = (30+9)/2 = 19.5

Now;
CxMag + (Mag-19) ÷ 2 x (Mag+4) is the part we're interested in. I wish the formula was more clear about the divisor because it has huge implications on the result but whatever.

20.5 x 24 + (24 - 19) ÷ 2 x (24 + 4)
492 + (5 ÷ 2 x 28) = 562
20.5 x 27 + (27 - 19) ÷ 2 x (27 + 4)
553.5 + (8 ÷ 2 x 31) = ~667
So +3 Mag is ~18% damage gain if all else is held constant for Wind.

Non Wind is
19.5 x 24 + (24 - 19) ÷ 2 x (24 + 4)
468 + (5 ÷ 2 x 28) = 538
19.5 x 27 + (27 - 19) ÷ 2 x (27 + 4)
526.5 + (8 ÷ 2 x 31) = ~650
Which is roughly 20% more damage.

Yes, Sch/None Thomas does ~18-20% damage than Undine who is the best non MC mage. Relative to Sara who has 26 Mag/17 Spd/10 Con, he does
650/612 = ~6% and 667/638 = 4% more. Could be relevant when you're waiting to recruit Bai/Undine/Fullbright/etc for your CM Mode casters as Sarah.

>>4109617
I think you're talking about a playthrough in which all your characters exclusively use magic? I haven't done that. I was talking about getting the most value out of a mage MC Thomas since he has a uniquely high mag stat (Sara doesn't count since you can't use her in the final fight).

If I were to do a playthough with ONLY magic I would pick Katarina to avoid a prologue battle where I have to rely on physical attacks. Her damage would be very low but she could use sun magic for healing and her speed would be useful for support magic.
If you want to exclusively use magic you have very limited options for commander mode: Bai Meiniang, Undine, Tiberius, and Muse. Other characters will sometimes use physical attacks in commander mode. Bai Meiniang could limit herself to blades of wind and HP drain while Undine and Tiberius scrap their magic and train hypergravity. Generally the best way to use Muse in commander mode is to do absolutely nothing with her; teach her no magic and she'll simply defend each turn, which is more useful than letting her attack and get killed.
Or maybe you can get around the commander mode behavior by having a mixed attacker either participate in fusion spells (shadow bolt), defend, or use his strongest spells.

If you're ignoring the prologue fight so you can use Sara then yeah you get a way stronger mage team with her as the MC. You get a support bonus, you get an extra team member, and with 5-member formations you can use strong fusion spells like crimson flare or galaxy. You can even change formations mid fight.

Depending on the rules you could train weapons for buffs (matriarch spear), swords for the ice sword's freeze counter, and use techs for utility like the golden bat's invisibility. Hopefully you'd at least be allowed to break staves of vivacity for healing.

Or am I going in the wrong direction and you're just looking for the maximum magic damage in vacuum? It's 9999. Shouldn't be hard to hit with buffs and shadow servant.

>tfw too retarded for SaGa

Why are emerald saga and scarlet grace so different from the series

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I just beat Mythe's scenario and I'm still in awe of the sheer audacity by the developers. How are they even going to market the remaster/remake if there is even one? Certainly not as a "beloved classic" that's for sure.

>>4114166
Kawazu is going to make you his BITCH.

What is your favorite おやつ video

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>>4113949
They're not? They follow Unlimited's formula and update it with a better combat system, some details from the Romancing games in SSG or the GB games/Frontier in EB, EB leans more into the tabletop design by giving most worlds a gimmick inspired by different board games but that's part of elaborating what Unlimited started.
SaGa constantly experimented and never stuck to one specific structural design, the GB games are simple linear dungeon crawlers, Romancing through Frontier 1 opted for a free roam nonlinear experience while Frontier 2 pioneered the self contained scenario structure that Unlimited, SSG and EB would further refine in their own specific ways.
When you take your time to look at them in depth you'll see how mechanics, writing and design wise they all share the same fundamentals, EB not only has direct nods to the previous games down to SaGa 2, it even goes all the way back to FF2 as it's the first SaGa that has both variable stats and proficiencies just like FF2 so it's hard to say it's deviating from the series' history.
>>4114166
Mythe's metamorphosis from womanizing chud to alpha simp with an accidental harem of gigastacies is absolute kino, that and the Round Table boss rush that ends with fighting Phantom on the fucking round table itself is unparalleled and I don't care what normalfags think about it, it was peak
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NyEjaVYYadQ

I just bought the Minstrel Song remaster and was pleased to find it came with a fully colored manual.