Just now (a couple weeks ago) I noticed Daggerfall Unity has been completed and started replaying Daggerfall for the first time in 30 years. Haven't been able to put it down since. Maybe I'll finish it this time.DFU modding support really turned Daggerfall into a modern TES title: Titty mods (yes even more than vanilla), load order issues, gazillions of graphics mods and even reshade presets (for a 90s game with flat billboard sprite NPCs lmao) yet mods that fix core gameplay issues are strangely limited.
>>4121761Daggerfall is not an RPG. It's a sandbox game, and a shit one at that. Goyim played it back then, and goyim still play it now.
>>4121761>DFU moddingGive it a few more years and modders will have it turned into a much better game. It's already a completely different experience from early 2020s.Even in 2026 some of the groundbreaking mods like everything related to turning Iliac Bay into a real sea that you can sail are still too janky.You already can, technically, control a ship and cross the sea in a few in-game days but the experience is miserable with heavy stutters, necessary restarts due to ship control state bugs, constant dropping out of time acceleration due to enemies, bugs like underwater enemies falling onto the seafloor once you enter water. And even outside the waters, you have bugs like sea events happening several map pixles inland and large oceangoing ships stuck in tiny rivers and streams.Land travel is in a much better shape. The world's immense scale is already elevated from its original pointlessness into a proper feature with time accelerated travel options, roads, more varied wilderness procgen, better world heightmaps/biomes/seasons and survival+foraging+encounter mods to support it.
The fundamental problem with Daggerfall that no mod will ever address is that I’m simply not interested in procedurally-generated slop.
>>4121818Daggerfall's dungeons are unironically the best of any TES game.The latter titles follow the same core procgen design that arena started and daggerfall perfected, but they're dumbed down with every iteration.
>>4121761It's pretty nice yeah.>lol at the namefag attention whore
>>4121761love the music of that game that being said, I've already tried a lot of builds>ooga-booga Nord with zero fucking magic just shitton of resistances, potion making mod for diseases/poison>min maxed breton mage, 2 nukes on Yokuda weren't enough >wood elf sneak archer faggot(why is this shit always so powerful)>red guard linguist with short blade, In general I avoid the welfare ebony blade you get from questionnaire, not this time>jack of all trades dungmermaybe I will make a monk character next time
>>4121784>Give it a few more years and modders will have it turned into a much better game. They need to solve the engine bottlenecks that fuck up performance first, because big mods like WOD in conjunction with other terrain mods + that fast travel mod rapes FPS, despite not really pushing your GPU/CPU all that much.
>>4121955>sneak archer faggot(why is this shit always so powerful)Because it's the objectively strongest form of combat/warfare, outside of possibly delegating the sneak archery to fire-and-forget ballistic missiles/drones IRL.If the enemy has no idea your attack is coming, they can't actively defend against it, so just penetrating their passive defenses is the only obstacle your attack needs to bypass to kill/destroy the target.It is by design very hard to "nerf it", without coming up with very bullshitty/unreasonable/unrealistic countermeasures, in both vidya and real life.
>>4122537Upgrade your toaster, fix your mods or turn down your render distance (the minimum setting is already longer than max in most games)Travel Options is well optimized, it even automatically turns off certain performance hungry mods when running the game at up to 6000% speed.
>>4122764>>4121955Stealth archers aren't even that good in Daggerfall...There's not much you can do to set up backstabbing aside from some niche language skill abuse and at that point you're better off with melee. And other than backstabbing there's just no benefi to the stealth+archer combo.Also imagine sloowly sneaking through dungeons instead of zooming past everything at doomguy speeds with 100 speed and 100+ running.Couldnt be me.
>>4122801>not much you can dochameleon exists here too unmodded>slowlymods, there is one that just allows you to run while eneaking
>>4122813Do you even play this game?1. Chameleon only works while you're standing still. 2. What mod? I don't think it exists, given how the basis of df stealth mechanic is movement speed.There's shadow form and invisibility which you might have mentioned if you knew anything about the game you're supposedly talking about, but that's still missing the point. Most of the time you're crawling around narrow dungeon tunnels and most enemies won't be standing with their backs towards you. You'd have to be within melee distance to get behind them for backstabbing, making stealth archery utterly pointless.
All namefags must hang.
>>4121836>vast underground complexes built at enormous expense with no apparent purpose, populated with multiple aggressive species apparently living in peace and harmony, and littered with amazingly valuable treasure that somebody just left there for some reasonDungeons are retarded. Fuck Daggerfall.
>>4121773lol stfu you larping zoomer.
>>4121836>The latter titles follow the same core procgen design that arena started and daggerfall perfectedNo, they don’t. Only Starfield did.
>>4123400Yes they do, everything you see in Morrowind -> Oblivion -> Skyrim is just an iteration of the same dungeon block system. Prefab parts chained together to make a full location. Since Daggerfall had about two orders of magnitude more locations than the later games, most of its locations were not fully stored on disk but rather procedurally generated from the blocks.But it also has a few non-procgen dungeons, essentially made in the exact same way dungeons up to Skyrim were made.Even if the dungeons are no longer procgenned, the core of TES dungeon design was made for procedural generation. Once you internalize this fact and consider the effects of the dumbing down trend during the time games ascended into mainstream normalfag entertainment, you will understand why modern TES dungeons are so bad.The bigger difference is how cities were handled. They received more design attention in the later games and were no longer based on prefab blocks, giving every single one a more unique and recognizable identity despite the copypaste buildings everywhere.
>>4123208go explore caves where nothing can offer you any sort of adversity or difficulty, morrowtroon. dungeons are for the faustian white men who enjoy delving far deep into the unknown and discovering lost secrets forgotten by time.
>>4123577>Even if the dungeons are no longer procgennedThank you for agreeing with me.
>>4123762Yes, I agree that your reading comprehension is lacking. I said they follow the same core procgen design principles. Which they do.The fundamental dungeon design method Bethesda still uses was meant to support procedural generation.That's why dungeons in Skyrim et al feel like repetitive procslop. It's all trickle down from earlier TES titles.Also, when I said they are not procgenned, I meant they are not procedurally generated during run-time. But they likely were procedurally generated during development. The modular dungeon block system would have allowed churning out hundreds of simplistic repetitive dungeons easily, but the limited workhours of only 6 level designers would not.
>>4123786>But they likely were procedurally generated during development.Nope
>>4123786A person intentionally snapping together Legos with the intention of assembling them into some greater structure is fundamentally different than a computer randomly snapping together Legos according to an algorithm which produces different structures each time it is executed.I'm certain that if you think long and hard about this, you may be able to figure out why.
>>4123111>ACKSCHUALLYgood for you, i am calling it chameleon and name it that>what modthe one that allows you to crouch while sneaking >BUT SPEED LOSSirrelevant, looks like running >melee range for backstabno? it works at range too with a bow (I don't think spells work though for some reason Todd hates stealth casters)>backs to youthey wiggle around on occasion plus it can be side shot when entering rooms>but is pointlessbrother anything that is not fireball spell absorbing mage is pointless yet we try new things
>>4123790I know this is Bethesda we're talking about but not even they are that retarded. Do you really think the six (6) level designers of Skyrim were assigned to waste their limited workhours putting together hundreds of repetitive draugr loop dungs when much of the work could've been done algorithmically and refined as necessary when the locales were needed for quests etc?Of course not, much of the level design talent and time went into designing the overworld with its unique cities and other POIs.>>4123799That argument only works in an imaginary world where the dungeons of later TES titles are good.>with the intention of assembling them into some greater structureAnd yet, some of the more complex Morrowind dungeons display the same kind of illogical structure as Daggerfall ones. (As do the handmade dungeons in DF, by the way)
>>4123835You a pathological liar or something? You're a waste of time for sure
>>4123852Replied to wrong post?
>>41238522+2 equals 22
>>4121784>Give it a few more years and modders will have it turned into a much better game.It needs a Tamriel Rebuilt style project that actually fills in the landscape with handmade locations, NPCs, and quests.You'll never eliminate all procgen from the game but gradually replacing it would be great.Otherwise I can't be fucked to mess with it for more than a few hours. Just not interested in a totally procgen game, I'd play a roguelike or something in that case and have more fun.
>>4124013That's what modders have been doing for years and honestly there's not much left of the original game at this point except the dated core RPG system.Wilderness and towns alike have been completely replaced, there's many quest packs with hundreds of new quests, new joinable guilds, gameplay mods to make the vast open world have a raison detre, etc.Since it's not randomized it doesn't have anything in common with roguelikes. In cases like this you should view procgen as a compression algorithm.
LLM integration when
>>4121773>D&D is not an RPG, its a sandbox gameThats how retarded you sound
>>4124213If Daggerfall is an RPG, so is Minecraft. You can’t explain why Daggerfall is an RPG in your own words. You just repeat what other people say, like cattle. Moo, cattle, moo.
>>4123876show me your wares floppa
>>4124218>If Daggerfall is an RPG, so is MinecraftYou’re close to getting it, but too stupid to make it all the way there.
>>4124218Minecraft is an RPG thoe.
>>4124295>I know why you’re wrong, I just won’t tell youDoes your girlfriend go to a different school?>>4124301NBA 2K is also an RPG, since you can create a player and improve your stats. We need more FIFA and NBA 2K threads, you’d feel right at home with the dysgenic third world monkeys that form the core audience of these products.
When will you people understand that namefags are like little sluts for the (you)s. Guy visited a ton of threads here to state his "hot takes" like a desperate whore. Just ignore him.
>>4124368You ought to thank me for contributing to the putrid bog you call a board. I single-handedly raised the level of discourse by a mile. Now talk about Daggerfall or leave the thread.
>>4124368It’s funny because I’m pretty sure there’s at least one anon parodying him, and he does such a good job of nailing the gimmick that it’s difficult to tell them apart. The imitation might even be more authentic in spirit than the “real” one
>>4121761The DFU engine needs easily accessible performance trace profiling and debugging tools. A mod sandbox like it is obviously going to be plagued with hard to troubleshoot issues and having simple tools would go a long way to fix issues. The engine also seems to throw exceptions completely silently, so the player won't know what's broken even though the software tries to communicate it to the user.
>>4123749>who enjoy delving far deep into the unknownThey're a metaphor for your homosexual tendencies.
>>4121773It's not a sandbox game you incurable faggot. Daggerfall is the most advanced dungeon generator in the history of gaming. That's what it is. An FPP dungeon crawler with some extra open air locations as a bonus.
>>4125673Thanks for summing up why it's shit.
>>4124368This. They're all attention-seeking narcissistic homosexuals.
>>4125676Your Sims 3 are somewhere else, go there and don't go back.
>>4121955>>4122764Stealth archers are only good in Skyrim because of the 6x sneak attack crit. In Oblivion the Chameleon effect exists, which makes stealth builds irrelevant. Morrowind is already piss easy so there's no reason to go for it over melee. And in Daggerfall you can get faster kills just by getting your Speed up to 100 and swinging your arms.
>>4125673>/vrpg/ - Video Games/Dungeon CrawlersThanks for proving my point. This thread should be deleted, since Daggerfall is not an RPG. All discussion on this board should be focused on Baldur's Gate, Planescape: Torment, Fallout 1/2, and Arcanum, as these are the only computer role-playing games ever made.
>>4121761I might have to give it a try modded. I love RPGs like this.
>4126102All of our lives here are so much worse off, just because your mother did not decide to abort you.
>>4126336This is Milo-era /vrpg/. You will be exposed to my tasteful, actually contrarian positions, and dragged to them kicking and screaming if need be. Bow, slave!
>>4126286>RPGs like thisWhat Daggerfalllikes are there?
>>4126102Nigger
>>4127008Starfield
>>4127026Not funny. Go play some games instead of shitposting.
>>4126102>All discussion on this board should be focused on Baldur's Gate, Planescape: Torment, Fallout 1/2, and Arcanum, as these are the only computer role-playing games ever made.It'd be funny, but knowing that some people actually believe this makes it tragic.With that in mind, hey, fuck off back to RPG Codex.
>>4127028Not shitposting. It’s Bethesda’s final evolution of the Daggerfall formula: a giant, massive, empty, boring procedurally-generated trough.
>>4125485lukewarm like your penis floating in a pickle jar with embalming fluids.
>>4123749>nothing can offer you any sort of adversity or difficultyThat's kinda been my experience with Daggerfall Unity so far.It's been far easier than the classic game was, thanks to all the bugfixes and modern QoL. The dodging fix in particular is a huge gamechanger. I didn't know this at the time, but dodging in classic actually increased the chance to get hit. And you can't stop skills from leveling, so this effect had to be compensated with better tier armor. This led to a pretty balanced progression and even smoothened the level scaling, though completely accidentally.But now, with dodging working as intended and other fixes to the combat formula, you don't need armor at all. Especially not once you have access to magic item maker.
>>4127972>dodging in classic actually increased the chance to get hitBased BethesdaMy favorite thing back in the day was that there was this one inn that for some reason (bug? Intentional Easter egg?) would have a really high chance of the generic chests upstairs being full of Daedric gear. So you’d beeline there immediately after privateer hold and then totally ruin the game economy and item progression.
>>4127979Yeah, classic Bethesda. The only time they create something that makes for good gameplay, it's because it's broken and works the opposite of what they intended.And yeah the daedric stuff in certain inn loot tables was pretty famous even back then. It was probably a leftover from testing, like the $spellname thing. Daggerfall Unity fixes all that.
>>4127979>this one inn that for some reason (bug? Intentional Easter egg?) would have a really high chance of the generic chests upstairs being full of Daedric gear.It's a "legal cheat". A secret that was probably described in some paid guide book you could order. The same thing as the super dagger hidden in the first location in Stonekeep, or that OP armor in Stalker:SOC hidden in the start village.>And yeah the daedric stuff in certain inn loot tables was pretty famous even back then. It was probably a leftover from testing, like the $spellname thing. Daggerfall Unity fixes all that.It means the team behind Daggerfal Unity is made of fucking morons.
>>4127983>Bethesda is made of fucking moronsThanks, Captain Obvious.
>>4127983>It's a "legal cheat". A secret that was probably described in some paid guide book you could order.It wasn't. It's just a bug the community found and exploited early on. This stuff is meticulously documented on UESP.
>>4127199>responds with penis fantasyHomosexual confirmed.
>>4122787>toasterI don't think you know what that means anon.....
>>4128940Let's stop for a moment and remember that Daggerfall is a game which was originally made to run on a 486 with 8 MB RAM.And today, simply booting up DFU with mods and loading a save is taking ~180 billion CPU cycles and 2 GB working set.
