What are YOUR hot-takes on RPG classes?Is the future classless?
>>4149630>Is the future classless?yesActually become a Paladin by doing paladin deeds, instead of pencil pushing on some sheet
>>4149630Single character or multi character RPG?Nvm class shit is shit design by retards for retards. Next question.
>>4149630Classless with a few mutually exclusive abilities
There should be whore classLike prostitute
>>4149636Based and FF4-pilled
>>4149752I completely agree. Succubus are underrepresented. I want to play as a hell's HR.A mostly social class that gets xp by enabling others to do the most heinous shit imaginable(damning them for all eternity) and directly draining their souls through sex.
>>4149636Those are supposed to be implied in the character background. You could of course roleplay becoming a paladin while on an adventure with other party members, but you're not gonna be as useful without paladin abilities
>>4149636I mean, in traditional D&D, if you playing as a Paladin, you DID have to perform like a Paladin, or you would be stripped of your magical abilities and you had to do an oath quest to get them back.
>>4149630Classes are and always were retarded. People don't have classes IRL FFS.They're just another worthless relic of D&D, along with character levels, hit points and dungeon-crawling. Gary Gygax should have been burned at the stake.
>>4150201>People don't have classes IRLStopped reading here. You have to be 18 to post here
>>4150213you have titles and you might have certificates but you're not legally put into the plumber class when you finish your apprenticeship. you're just a licensed plumber lol
>>4149630Just let people multiclass.
>>4149630>mixes class as occupation with class as hierarchical position with zero distinction of the obviouswannabe communists being triggered by words will never stop being funny.
>>4149636>become paladin That would be ff4
>>4149636You realize your character didn't just randomly pop into existence one day, right? They still have an implied history which explains their narrow range of expertise they happen to start off with.
>>4150322Multiclassing is for homosexuals and fruits.
>>4150633Nta but it's cool to have that point happen during the game instead. Juicy character development.
>>4150643WRPGfags don't want to play games with child protagonists.
>>4150652They played BG1 though
>>4150657Abdel is 20 during the events of BG1.
>>4150668>AbdelStopped reading here
>>4150668>Hurry child, my little bhaalbaby boy, we must get to friendly arm inn so I can change your nappy and make you burp->Wait, the CPS is coming>Very perceptive for an old man. Hand over your infant ward, and no one will get hurt. If you resist, you shall pay alimony for the rest of your life!>Run child!
>>4149630Classless is not inherently wrong for an RPG like Fallout, but in a game with a defined culture, setting, civilization, and hierarchy, classes make too much sense to ignore. Most people like classless because it reinforces their IRL theory of "being able to do anything!" which is not reality. You will never be an astronaut or a SEAL Team Six operator, that's just that. Classes should encompass both the traits of an archetype, and the typical skills, allowing that class to be varied within its field.
If a game is going to have classes it should have like 16+ and they should all have very distinct identity. Having 6 classes in a game is fucking stupid, there's not enough breadth.
>>4150755The class roster for a roleplaying game is complete, not when there is nothing left to add, but nothing left to take away.
>>4150213>the gnome illusionist asserts himselfLMAO
>>4150758So, no classes.
>>4150761Fundamentally, I think one should be able to get by multiclassing the fundamental archetypes of>fighter>cleric>thief>mageIn my subjective opinion, I also feel that a handful of additions have a unique enough identity to warrant adding:>paladin>bard>ranger>barbarianbut if it came down to brass tacks, those aren’t TRULY needed, they’re just flavor. One could make do with multiclasses of the primary four. The rest is up to the roleplayer.
>>4150761This>>4150765This reasoning is a no-go
>>4150790A character is defined as much by what they cannot do, as by what they can do. Classes provide structure, identity, represent an archetype, an ideal. They represent something.Classless characters are amorphous blobs of numbers without purpose or identity. Invariably classless systems produce one of two things, 1. purpose-built specialists (essentially reinventing the concept of a class), or 2. bloated generalists who have ground their way into being a perfect master-of-all, without flaws, which is fucking stupid.
>>4150800Think that through again
>>4149630>Is the future classless?the future won't have games
>>4150800>amorphous blobs of numbers without purpose or identityI think you're supposed to do something called "role-playing" which provides them with a purpose and identity ...
>>4151447Role... playing?Do you mean roll-playing, the act of rolling the ideal stats stated in the online walkthrough guide for ideal stat allocation, taking into account all the stat bonuses that can be gained by metagaming specific equipment and following certain quest completions and choices?
>>4149630Classes are more interesting than classless because classless always end up in cookie cutter builds that focus on one single aspect and become a "class".With classes, you obviously have the most optiomal path, but it also opens way to playing it unoptimally or playing around with a weird build that combined with certain items or skills, can make the class work in a different way than its supposed to, like a mage wielding a sword and using freeze magic to CC enemies is more interesting than a "classless dude" using a sword and freeze magic, because he doesn't have all the penalities that come together with being a mage, only the benefits.Noticing that an attackspeed buff makes it possible for an archer to excel in dagger combat and focus on strength instead of dexterity is more interesting than every classless dude taking the "attackspeed buff skill" because it fits every melee archetype.
>>4151477In what game?
>>4151477"It is not because we are called blacksmiths that we are blacksmiths, but because we forge." It's always been poor form to simply claim a nickname, there is nothing wrong in becoming a class.Arguing build aspects is nonsense. A classed system should, and frequently does, have different checks and balances than a classless system. This is arguing the superiority of everyone taking levels in one class over everyone grabbing a certain collection of abilities. The issue is with the specific game's balance, not whether the system has Clerics or not.
>>4151447>I think you're supposed to do something called "role-playing" which provides them with a purpose and identity ...Absolutely no one in this thread complaining about class-based systems gives a single solitary fuck about roleplaying. It's a null set. This is (somewhat amusingly) a degenerate munchkin min-maxing board.
Classes should define what a player CANNOT do, rather than define what they CAN do. For example, in game design, do not define a warrior but what they SHOULD do, but what they SHOULD NOT do.
>>4150320Ok but usually when people say they like classless it’s because they want to be a master plumber, a genius researcher, and a US President all at the same time.
>>4151568Why
>>4151573what's wrong with that if it's already possible to be a reality tv star, a pedophile, and a US president all at the same?
>>4151576The average max charisma playthrough
>>4151574Limitation breeds creativity, not freedom.
>>4151584Curious argument when discussing RPGs
>>4151568>Classes should define what a player CANNOT do, rather than define what they CAN do.Are those not both the same thing, but phrased in a way so as to harvest maximum updoots on reddit?
>>4149630The programming world is moving away from class-based, object-oriented hierarchies and towards a entity-component systems. Perhaps it is time for RPGs to follow suit.
>>4151605You can say that a warrior can wear heavy armor, but that isn't putting a restriction on the class. If you state that a warrior cannot wear robes, then it's a restriction that prevents cheese. Case in point: Sweaties in WoW using leather armor to maximize DPS because threat tanking is more viable in Classic than mitigation tanking. Restrictions promote creativity, freedom promotes abuse.
>>4151605CANNOT get a job and raise a family, CAN jerk off to japanese cartoons
>>4151584A classed system, like Pathfinder for example, is maybe more obvious about the opportunity costs for something like multiclassing, but a classless system is perfectly capable of saying that a player needs to have one trait or another to qualify for something more desired.Classless is not limitless, any more than class is set in unmoving stone. It has plenty of limitations, including efficiency for a given level.
>>4151609>Restrictions promote creativity, freedom promotes abuse.What is creativity in this context but discovering optimal and/or novel uses of the freedom allowed within the bounds of a restriction? Is finding creative and optimal ways to utilize freedom abuse because you don't like it?>Sorry, this creativity isn't allowed because it's powerful and cheesey. You should be herded into a limited set of possibilities that I personally approve of.
>>4151620>>Sorry, this creativity isn't allowed because it's powerful and cheesey. You should be herded into a limited set of possibilities that I personally approve of.This but unironically
So we have concluded that classes are for uncreative people who require narrow parameters to function
>>4151625>So we have concluded that classes are for uncreative people who require narrow parameters to functionWhat is creativity in this context but discovering optimal and/or novel uses of the freedom allowed within the bounds of a restriction?
>>4151626Restricted
>>4149644>Single character or multi character RPG?Good distinction to make
>>4149630>>4151625MMO's solved classes 3 decades ago with branching classes and detailed classes but for some reason, everyone kept making special snowflake characters or special snowflake class systems.>"BUT I WANT TO PLAY ALL THE CLASSES!"Then start a new save/create a new character. >"BUT I WANT TO..."Didn't ask
>>4150765I always found the four core archetypes pretty lacking, specifically in a class utilizing proficiency in item usage.Imagine a merchant, an alchemist or an engineer that gets through the problems with his seemingly endless pockets full of various doodats that he obtains through variety of means. Such character would also have valid and unique out of combat utility like item appraising and upgrading without seeking specific NPCs.
>>4152617I remember similiar discussion from months ago and somehow the consensus was that merchant does not count as a class because they supposedly would have no reasons to adventure, which was fairly asisine because someone who seeks new products and markets to sell said products travels and adventures a lot. The concept of traveling merchant is ubiquitous both in real history and fantasy. It also can be directly tied to irl historical class.Fighter - military.Mage - scholar.Cleric - clergy.Thief - poverty/lower class because they often were stealing and doing shady shit to survive.Merchant - historical middle classes represented by merchants, craftsmen etc.
>>4152622Obviously, this opens a question if there's a way to flavour nobility into mechanically distinct class to represent the last major historical class. I can imagine them having leverage outside of combat due to their status and maybe ability to bolster their party via natural charisma and superior commanding skills but this feels kinda clunky and gay.
>>4151654You can have a 4 nigga party with a Predator, a Disturbance, a Calamity and a Jester?This sounds retarded as shit.
>>4152625The Slayers BESM had a noble class that would allow for the player to have a retinue of hirelings based on their Charisma. They also had the rogue class build a mob of hirelings based on their Charisma as well. Going off of >>4152622 it would be more interesting if groups that gained levels, fame, and capabilities had a growing network of NPCs, and it would solve the issue of why merchants are outside of urban settlements.
>>4150668>age 20 >still lives with his parentI did not realize how cringe CHARNAME was
>>4152780Probably a virgin too>You have spent most of your 20 years of life within this keep's austere walls
>>4149630Classes need to be dumped into the troonfilled D&D bin where they belong. Archetypes are the way to go where investing into anything outside your core archetype skillset (which gets defined during charactr creation and setting of background/childhood guff) gets prohibitively expensive.
>>4154287>Classes need to be dumped>Archetypes are the way to go>your core archetype skillset (which gets defined during charactr creation)
>>4154291>he thinks archetypes and classes are the same thing
>>4154292>>he thinks archetypes and classes are the same thingFighter, mage, cleric, and thief are the standard classes. They are historical and legendary archetypes that are common to many different cultures. Thus they are appropriate to any sort of AD&D game campaign. All of the other classes are optional. Your DM may decide that one or more of the optional classes are not appropriate to his campaign setting. Check with your DM before selecting an optional character class.>-AD&D 2nd Edition Player's Handbook, page 25
>>4150676Compared to granpappy gorion, of course he's a child. Also, for your parent you'll always be a kid
>>4153121>lives with old, crusty coots, no woman would touch with a 10ft pole in a castle>which probably has a sizeable dungeonhe was diddled on a regular basis 100%
>>4149630GameFAQs forum?
>>4149630Yes with open ability-selection.Synergies to encourage specialization.Encounter design to discourage overspecialization.
