>>2414786
It is ultimately a niche product for a niche group of people who have been playing Jebus for past 25 years. It suceeds at that and needs to do little more.

>>2414786
>Now that the dust has settled
The game not even out for a single month yet and it is in early access. The dust has not settled. Last time you have claimed that the "dust has settled" when it was just a a friggin' DEMO! Get your shit together.

I'm off the loop. Which faction at the moment is the strongest and which one is at the bottom? How would you rank them?

>>2415010
Too early to tell but based on early opinions Hive is considered to be the worst faction because it has no ranged creatures until an upgraded T6 creature. (Hive is just hated in general simply because it is "not muh Inferno from H3")

Dungeon and Grove are competing for the strongest faction because they are generally simple and straightforward to understand.

It used to be Necropolis because reanimating was % based and had no cap so late game Necro was completely unbeatable by sheer numbers but it was nerfed by adding a weekly cap of rezzing units instead of keeping it infinite.

>>2415020
>Hive is considered to be the worst faction
At least they're keeping the Inferno's tradition.

>>2415039
devs keeping it authentic and players still complain

>>2415027
CSMchads won

Am I retarded? I feel like the game is just waiting until you have a gigarape army and walking up to the enemy.
I haven't played much or is the AI just borked? Surely there is more to this game.

>>2415192
>Am I retarded? I feel like the game is just waiting until you have a gigarape army and walking up to the enemy.
This is literally every Heroes game ever. Are you new?

>>2415205
>Are you new?
Yes? I think that was blatantly obvious.

SO!
Is this a good game? Is it better than HOTA, which is no doubt the best game in the series.
V is shit btw.

>>2415214
hota is not a game in the series

>>2415217
You know what I mean, HOMM 3 + HOTA is top tier.

What's the point of Walkha as a hero?

>>2415192
You might be but the meat of it is requiring less and less of a doomstack as you get your shit together and improve.

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I can't beat campaign lvl 1 on hardest (i never play on easy)
FUCK THIS GAME

>>2415010
Necro is the strongest, closely followed by Schism. Though balance patch tomorrow hopefully. I hear Schism will remain OP.

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I wish the devs would add a faction reminiscence of Homm3's Fortress in the future. I'd really love that. Especial since lizardmen already live on Jadame so you have all the lore reason to make them a faction. The addition of Stronghold would also be great, but I think it's more probable we'll get it as faction so I'm rooting more for Fortress.

>>2414786
>was the PvP focused design a good choice?
yes. three words:
>single hero
>tourney

i got balance thoughts, but they're just anecdotal. single hero and tourney though, those opinions are more than just anecdotal. it's brought me back to the homm formula. all the olden devs need to do now is:
>more maps for best of 3
>add some best of 5
the real question is how did no one think of solo hero tourney before this? more and more of my pve games are on exodus because it's just fun. losing the first match and thinking the ai is hacking, only to win twice later is a crazy rush. winning the first, losing the second and feeling the game slipping away is just real.

>>2415010
long games:
schism by far, then hive, the rest, and then grove in the far back
short games:
schism and grove, the rest, and then hive way in the back

schism's passive, their monsters (and their monster abilities), and their casters/law bonuses for casters, are all just too good.
if hive could creep as efficiently as schism on the majority of their heroes then they could scale into the late game as strongly as schism, and maybe there would be some contest, but naw. not really.

necro temple and dung are all in good spots. they have a few gimmicky strats, a few strong late game strats, and generally very strong monster rosters. if i'm playing one of these three, and so is my opponent, the game is always enjoyable even on a loss.

grove is gimmicky, and that's it. a weaker monster roster (but with lots of gimmick abilities), a strange hero roster, and an absolutely ASS resource/monster upgrade path. this may sound like i think grove is bad, but they just feel a little weak, and if they add a new faction they should add another gimmicky faction that plays more like grove to mix things up. maybe that's how they see hive, but if so, they need to revisit the hive hero roster.

>>2415891

Ogres do live on Jadama so stronghold seems likely, if they are not added later as neutral unit. I still have the feeling we get a pirate faction, since Regna Island is part of the continent. But I do wish to see some dwarves and orcs to be added.

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>>2414786

>>2416013
>no new factions
ded gme

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>>2416022

>>2415192
You've described the first experience of every strategy game playing against AI, yes.

>>2415975
>Ogres do live on Jadama so stronghold seems likely
Cyclopes and trolls as well. Although I could see trolls fitting as well in swamp-like Fortress. Especial since from what I've read they used to live on Regna Island
>I still have the feeling we get a pirate faction, since Regna Island is part of the continent.
Pirate faction would be cool. The only issue I have is that it'd be weird to have such faction without traversable water terrain. The devs might add it later, but its absent feels more to me like a deliberated design choice. Then again, we're getting undergrounds latter down the EA as seen here >>2416013 so who knows. I could at the very least see pirates as neutral unit.
>But I do wish to see some dwarves and orcs to be added.
There was no orcs on Jadame in M&M8 to my knowledge, but there actually was one lair with dark dwarves. Maybe I'm reading into it too much, but I wonder if the devs are saving them for a future faction. Maybe not even necessary strict dwarven faction like the one in Homm5, but maybe like for example a general industrial town in the vein of Hota Factory.

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How would you buff your chosen town without making it too op?

>>2415671
On my first play of the campaign I had to lower the difficulty to Challenging(? I forget if that's the name of the 2nd highest) for the first mission. After I was done I beat it on expert.

You go through the first fight, you pick up the dancers on the left, then you go do the fight on the right as your second cause there's more army waiting to be picked up there. You pay off the Bridge guard, collect the army past the bridge, then you return to kill the Hivelings guarding the lucky coin, the skeletons with the hat, the Crypt(?) and basically everything else.

You can get past the first fight with -2 Minos if you position them in the top of the map where there's an obstacle that only allows you to be hit from 3 hexes, and I find it better than waiting on your end of the battlefield cause one/two of the Swordsmen stacks will waste an extra turn going around once the other stack blocks the front.
For the other fights you either use 1 stacks of Dancers to chip away enemies defense, or 1 stacks of Infiltrators to go and block ranged guards.

Make a save before each fight, since the entire mission is one day so you get no autosaves, and experiment on how to get the fewest losses.

>>2416013
>Ironman mode for the Campaign
Who wants this?

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>>2414786
>Now that the dust has settled, was the PvP focused design a good choice?
No, it was not a good choice.
The Ubisoft games were better heroes games than Olden Era.

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>>2416180
>with -2 Minos
Even auto gives you the same result, shitter. You can lose 0 if you only let 2 swordsmen attack you while you aoe all of them.

sprite > 3D

>>2416321
Not on expert it doesn't. And there is not a single hex on the field that is only adjacent to two others.
I'd love to see a clip proving me wrong.

>>2416391
https://www.bilibili.com/video/BV1mTRrBcEp3

>>2416435
Guess I am a shitter.

Interesting that his battlefield in the first fight is different to what I faced, I know reloading doesn't change it. I wonder if it's generated at the start of the mission or if it's dependent on your stacks. It's strange that they didn't have hand-crafted battlefields for what is essentially a challenge scenario.
Also why is his horseman behind the bridge not immediately behind the bridge, it was like that for me since day 1 of EA.

>>2416321
I'd love to see you do that desu. the best result i managed to get on the highest difficulty was 1 mino lost and i got really lucky with morale

>>2416185
I can't imagine many people but it's such a small amount of effort for something that's good for youtube engagment

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You guys missed OE hitting million sales couples days ago. Where were you?

>>2417498
it is called "confirmation bias" where in people ignore, rationalize away or attempt to discredit, anything that does not align with their worldview.

>Couatl isn't a dragon type
>Giant Toad is
Fucking unplayable.

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OE is soulless slop
unfrozen should stick with making mobile games

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New patch just dropped. Looks to fiddle with a lot of things.

Did everyone mig to a migger (coolspeak for migrant) general somewhere or did OE really fall off+L this hard after unus threadus.

>>2421882
Personally I tried a couple games now in EA, after having tried a few games in the demo, and at this point, I see no reason to continue playing, when major stuff I require from a (new/modern) HoMM game at minimum still isn't ready:
> underground map
> bigger max map sizes
> comprehensive map editor
> ability to easily generate an RMG map and then edit it myself
Don't really care for the campaign nor the story, neither the sweaty min-max PvP and MP nigger balancing that seems to be dominating the patches for now.
I'll come back to check on it on full release, but until then OE is pretty much dead to me.

>>2421882
It' an e-sport game.

>>2422368

Also Sea travel would be nice, but I think opening the Steam Workshop for costume maps would keep the game driving. Any map made by players is worth for me playing the game over and over.

>>2421882
I still haven't bought it or tried the demo. I was interested since it's $20 but then I started reading about obscene campaign AI and multiplayer balancing and I just ended up reinstalling HOMM2

The technical issues in the current Olden Era PvP multiplayer tournament is causing massive problems.

Makes Olden Era look like a lolcow game, and its software developers look like frauds and vibe-coders.

Not that the game developers are likely to care, they already bagged all the nostalgia-bux.

>>2423144
Okay, redditspacing nigger.

So Schizo is the most overpowered, because Lekshav said so (highest skill female player in Olden Era, they have 7 S tier heroes, unbannable), followed by Necro (whose Vampires are the worst tier 7 unit, but luckily they live on through the Wraith girl power, and Skeleton Archers make Skeletons viable), followed by Temple/Groovy and Hive still last, yes?

>>2425282
There was a patch just 1st of June, just a week ago and the patch notes are practically an entire novel so any faction tier videos are outdated at this point.

>>2414920
I'm this audience, I have no idea why would I want a V makeover for III

>>2425282
last i heard Dungeon and temple were the most broken

>>2414786
>was the PvP focused design a good choice?

>PvP
Min maxing this stats with these units with that spell creates an unbeatable combo, solved by removing 1 max damage
>Skirmish
AI is literally retarded and 1 damage doesn't change anything since it never abused things in the same way.

Why do people keep crying about "multiplayer balance"? Like wow you can't make an op build against a toddler AI anymore maybe you'll need to pay a smidge of attention now, poor guy

>>2425936
>Why do people keep crying about "multiplayer balance"?
Because focusing on PvP/MP balance means less time to focus on adding (more) interesting and more importantly MISSING features, more factions/creatures, and refining those features, etc. etc.

>>2426146
>the people who change stats should be adding content instead!
literal children know why this is retarded
Also you people do seethe at "multiplayer balance" don't try to pretend that's all about how you'd manage the devs time better

>>2416013
>rebalance
>rework
>rework
>rebalance
>rework
"Never measure, just cut away till it bleed to death lmao"™

Since it looks like shit it doesn't matter. I cant make myself wanna play it again, its like fallout 4 where it became roblox. Only Heroes 4 look worse than olden era, but Im not even sure. That game was not made with homm in mind, maybe king bounty.

>>2423144
The game is in a shambolic state.
Honestly, it's made only for Youtube faggots.
So they can put their cocksucking faces on their thumbnails and create videos about how thing X is le heckin OP or tier list slop.

>>2423144
The game is great and it deserves to survive, but yeah it's held together with duct tape right now. Multiplayer still needs major bugfixes, stability improvements, balance etc, and the devs need to somehow manage that while also adding all the singleplayer features people want. Gonna be tough.

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>yfw a fight is going bad but then you proc both luck and morale

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I only played HOMM2 and it's great

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it's up

>>2428968
Just watched it. Confused about lore of this then, are Schism just dark elves on some eldritch lovecraftian magic drugs, or do they have Vori snow elves in their ranks too?

>>2428968
Came back here to see the /vst/ reactions.

>>2428968
Pretty early in EA (has even been a month?) to make a video. Despite him being a heroes-fag it's reasonably fair. Could have leaned more into it being a cynical nostalgia farming prequel riddled with millennial game-dev faggotry.
Regardless, a very nice video, but I'll still hate and shit on this game.

>>2429012
404 Reactions Not Found

>>2428968
Damn, MandaloreGaming looks like that?!

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jvoNdFAPteE
>HOMM3 minimap looks 10x more detailed, intricate, and interesting than the OE minimap
What the FUCK did they mean by this?

>>2430364
Damn, that's a lot of advertising in a very short video. There's a reaction for you

>>2428968
I jerked off to ToA today

>>2430554
HoMM3 also has water if you can believe that

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it's dying

>>2430657
Its an unfinished single player game,

Guys we just got name dropped by THE Sseth, we are so heckin in there, am I right

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>>2430657
You love to see it.

>>2431542
More players than whatever homm you prefer

>>2430657
>player numbers
>single player game
I agree that Olden Era is shit, but bringing up player numbers is either a cheap bait or you are a mental tard.

is there a reliable way to get more units between weekly recruitments? i thought i was doing ok until a 223 trog stack arrived very suddenly against my 20 swordsmen and crossbowmen while clearing neutrals all match

Is the game worth get for pvp

>>2433093
>is there a reliable way to get more units between weekly recruitments?
Depending on the map format like Jebus Outcast for example you can find them Pandorra's Boxes but that is only on select map templates. Other than liberating neutral dwellings on the map or constructing yet unbuilt buildings alternatively story/plot points in the story mode can give troops.

In a standard game generally no, beside the ones above there are no other ways to get more units, the game's core challenge is built around the weekly cycle. Correctly estimating which fights you can reliably take on the map and which ones you cannot take and minimizing your combat losses is part of the core challenge.

>>2433093
dont lose all your units fighting neutrals

>>2433093
The AI can't lose units against neutrals (but also can't fight any neutrals the autoresolve couldn't actually win with its current units, regardless of any losses it should incur doing so), so losing units (outside of sacrificial 1 stacks) is unacceptable in a HoMM game.
HoMM games are essentially a snow ball simulator, which means that if something fucks your snow ball, you've practically lost the game at that point in most cases.

>>2433724
But a human player is able to rliably win significantly harder fights that the auto resolve would. Sometimes with great losses but also even greater rewards like taking over a high Tier dwelling that rewards high tier creatures which compensate for the losses. So there is a lot of room for a human player to hedge their bets and risk for rewards.

>>2433802
Sure, experienced players can, but I was referring to a post from someone who's clearly a beginner of not a complete newbie, exposed to HoMM games for the first time via OE.
There's more nuance in the whole thing, but on a fundamental level, attrition from neutrals is absolutely detrimental, unless you're compensating for it with something that you're hopefully gaining from winning such "pyrrhic" engagements.
And even at an equal level of two experienced/pro players facing each other, neither would even consider taking such attrition, without a much more significant potential gain for their strategy.

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I am going to buy this game. Don't try and stop me.

>>2434681
Ok, I won't try to stop you, go ahead... do it ...you dare... if oyou are sure... if you are absolutely sure....

>>2430657
It's not a live service game mate. It already sold 1 milliion copies thus making this game a massive success. The company already stated that they only needed to sell 250k for the game to be profitable. The fact that they have sold over 4 times that amount just means that they were a fantastic investment for Hooded horse.

>>2435406
>It's not a live service game mate
Literally drip-feeds content to you patch by patch.

>Be me
>Completely new to series
>Playing a session with friends who are also new
>Pick Hive, having no understanding of anything
>Couple sessions later I've got more income than a Rothschild and slowly starting to push on other players' territory
Are the Hive naturally good at snowballing resources or is it just because I found a lot of towns early and built all the gold-generating buildings before anything else?

>>2435639
His is no better generating gold or snowballing than the other factions in fact for new players Hive is considered to be one of the worst factions due to not having early game shooters. Hive are can "save gold" a little on upgrades but that is all. If you want to generate gold play Temple.

So it is probably you.

>>2435639
Only if youre an impatient idiot or if youre playing on a difficulty that makes you start with 0 of all resources money becomes a problem

Hive has no special advantage over other factions in income, but heres how i assume you mightve done good (in order of best to least efficient)
>You immediately built Buildings that increase daily income first
>You have Bathym, a hero who has the Economy skill and produces Crystals daily
>One of your heroes got max Economy
>You were lucky enough to find a lot of gold on the map or chose gold from the treasure chests everytime
>You found artifacts that make you earn more money per day
>You flagged a gold mine or two

Building creature dwellings first is a sign of low IQ with shortsightedness for the future. You will run out of ressources fast and struggle to buy even your Tier 1 units

If youre more familiar with specific faction playstyles, you can find a right balance between income buildings and creature buildings

>>2435415
Early access
>they have a roadmap showing what they plan to add until they feel the game is 100% complete
>adding stuff based on player suggestions
>adding new people to the team that are experienced in map-making, like a guy whose Homm3 map was very popular, so we can have more interesting scenarios/one offs
Imagine complaining about new shit being added

>>2435890
Gaymers are fucking retarded and deserve every bit of assfucking they get. Genuinely, 0 sympathy left. Jews are unironically right about goyim.

>>2435647
I was kind of thinking of them as a Zerg analogue with cheap and weak creatures, but I guess that doesn't really apply when you only replenish once a week. Is there anything they ARE good for?

>>2435876
I did try and rush all the income-increasing buildings first, and I suspected that I got lucky with RNG spawning a bunch of uncontested cities in zones close to me. Might have to toy around with the other factions a bit.

>>2436056
>I was kind of thinking of them as a Zerg analogue with cheap and weak creatures, but I guess that doesn't really apply when you only replenish once a week. Is there anything they ARE good for?

This discussion is a fairly big topic but I'll try to keep it short.

Hive's most powerful by far thing is that they can spawn eggs which then hatch to larve giving them a guaranteed extra stack of summoned creatures and they can do this EVERY TURN for just 1 focus bar, no mana needed. In this sense they are kind of like zerg. Just having extra disposable units on demand is an amazing advantage. upgrading so that the eggs can take 1 extra hit can make them able to block gaps in battle just by existing.

Larvae scale with the total (current) HP of their army so they also scale into the late game and can even be upgraded with laws to gain double attack and taunt. The Larva also explode in n AOE upon death, on your command or when they naturally expire, the explosion damage is not tied to their stack number but the hero level and law upgrades, a stack of 1 larva explode for the same damage as 1000.

Larvae are so good that rushing the pricey "Focus Reserves" law is almost a must so you could start every fight with 1 bar and place eggs on turn 1.

Otherwise Hive is good at easily gaining high morale and luck, and Waurms give the opponent negative luck which stacks with Meaera's chosen and item potentially giving the enemy over -3 luck. Hornets have a huge 10 initiative for T3 unit giving you the tempo advantage most of the time. Creatures are highly adaptable to your situation in defensive or offensive manner. Parasites are good at damaging high tier creatures and they have reach attack so they are much safer than melee. Queens are great at killing low tier creatures and can also deal AOE damage by default.

i buyed boughteren it. ohhhhhh i'm going to hell i'm having fun ohhhhhhh

>>2436170
I did not stop you Anon now you will suffer the consequences of your actions...

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>>2436109
Good info. Appreciate it anon

Should I buy the game at 25% off? The Cypriot-Russians gave the same 25% off discount a week before the Steam sale. Lame.

What if I don't care about the campaigns but neither care about multiplayer? I just uninstalled Heroes 5.5 because of the subhuman "cyka you cannot play in windowed mode! we will freeze the mouse inside the window cyka" bug.

>>2437043
Stay away from Slop Era if you are looking for fun singleplayer.
The game is made for PvP only.

AI is completely broken and doesn't work beyond week 3. It's only dangerous in the first two weeks because it cheats. It gets a huge number of troops in week 2 and doesn't lose any units against neutral creeps. Other than that it's absolutely stupid and can't play.

Campaign is a shit show. The few missions there are currently are badly designed.
The writing is so atrocious you can die from cringe.

There is no sea travel, there is no water period.
There is no underground either.

There are only 4 or 5 handmade scenarios. Everything else is just random map templates and each one has dozens and dozens of towns.
There are even more two way portals just to make it more annoying.

Also there is not even a team mode.
They couldn't even fucking implement the bare minimum.

>>2435639
>>Be me
>>Completely new to series
damn nigga

>>2437043
It's pretty fun. I'm digging Arena mode.

>>2437119
>>There is no sea travel, there is no water period.
>>There is no underground either.
Yeah we will probably need to wait a year or two for those to arrive if they ever arrive.

>>2437043
I didn't buy, might try the full version if they hire some professional writer to fix the writing (Sseth maybe)

>>2437119
it has the best battle ai of any homm tho

>>2437334
Underground is definitely going to be in the game, it’s been officially confirmed and it’s on the roadmap. I’m not so sure about water though. Apparently sweaty esports players don’t like it so it’s not a priority.

>>2438792
Haha, just like us AoE2 bros! Water... am I right?

>>2438755
>t. pajeet working for unfrozen

I don't think this will survive till next year, Lekkushav already ran out of content and no one watched her Olden Era videos anymore

You know, Olden Era actually delivered exactly according to expectations.
>It is to Heroes 3 & 5 what Iratus was to Darkest Dungeon

I haven't played in a while, started a game and saw the avatar health changes.
Still seems strong desu, but what do you guys think? Is the avatar less viable now?

>>2440503
It's much stronger and is about to get super nerfed

>>2440481
>Literally who?

Which spell specialization heroes do you think are the best? I find the rewind time Necro one to be amazing, and the slow specialization seems very good as well. What else?

>>2440503
Avatar will receive a full rework soon this has already been said by the devs.

>>2436109
>>2415020
Hive is actually underrated, the early creeping feels like pulling teeth but once you get a hang of combat and manage to clear without many losses, it's busted AF. Here's what I found works best so far:

>waurmos hero, start with him and just stacks of 1 parasite for corpses to heal, can clear most of starting camps
>the primal spell specialist, early game blows but he clears most other mages once you reach about lvl10 and get decent army/spells
>locust specialist, literally just upgrade the locust dwelling on first day and get the parrying upgrade, makes for VERY easy clearing with no losses, also the speed, defense and double attack + initiative makes them a menace later on
>reaver specialist is harder to set, again fucking pain from the start but once he gets rolling he absolutely wrecks especially with the predator upgrade that resets on kill

literally just be careful early on, use the larvae as meat shield and for getting counter attacks and you can reliably roll over any faction.
You'll likely lose first fight on exodus, setting up eco and dwellings will carry the other two tho. They also have very good laws and look the sickest by far.

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New update dropped. Reworked Necromancy and nerfed Avatar and Battle Magic. Plus other more minor changes.
https://store.steampowered.com/news/app/3105440/view/668369251018478585

>The Necromancy interface has been significantly redesigned: additional information has been added to guard tooltips on the map and in the end-of-battle window. You can now switch between accumulating Necromantic Energy and turning creatures into Undead of the same tier directly in the battle results window.
>The base chance to trigger a Lucky Hit per 1 point of Luck has been increased: 6% 8%. This chance is now twice the base trigger chance of the high Morale effect.
>The Avatar can now survive strictly 3 hits, regardless of the skill level.
also various other nerfs to the avatar
>You can now raise enemy units into undead even if you did not have creatures of that exact tier in your army.
In the combat results window, you can now cancel the summon decision and manually recycle fallen enemies into Necromantic Energy.
>Base Necromantic Energy capacity for heroes increased: 1000/1250/1500 3000/4000/5000.
(but note that raising costs are also a bit increased - less for low tier troops, more for high tier)
>The elite class for Necromancers — "Chronomancer" — has been reworked. It now fully replenishes the hero's Necromantic Energy pool daily.
Sounds ridiculous

Also various unit balancing changes. Dread Knights nerfed hard. Vampires slightly better. Hydras nerfed. We'll see how it plays, I'll try Necro first I think.

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It's taken me an embarrassing 7 hours of gameplay (And however much time in the demo) to finally learn the spell system. Was staring at the spell menu with drool rolling down my chin and a furrowed brow when I could only level spells up once and then it all clicked into place and I went "Ohhhhhhhhh". In my defense I've been playing mainly might heroes. MAINLY

>>2444970
It is fine anon, Might Heroes are better to learn the game with anyways.

>>2444557
my dreadknights aaaaaaa

>>2445071
Oh the horror! The DPS unit that has more hap than Dedicated tanks units like Inquisitor gets a nerf while at the same time still having a weekly growth of 3 while other T6 units have a weekly growth of 2. How will we ever recover?

Meanwhile Hive can now get 2 worms on day 2 now and speedrun their starting area while the entire rest of their army can just stay at home AFK.

>>2444970
Been a Knight Might player since Homm2. Big Stats are pleasing.

>>2444970
Might -> big stats -> big dick
Magic -> small stats -> small dick

simple as

>>2444557
Damn, I'm surprised how much stronger Sylvan's t2 got. They hit like a truck now.

>>2445315
Hive seriously needs it considering theyre still tied with Grove to be the worst to play. However I do think they need a bigger buff to just their growth rate and faction ability (larvae)

>>2445622
until your "big dick" Might heroes' troops get debuffed to shit so now they crawl across the battlefield, take thrice the damage and suffer an orbital strike twice every round

HOT TIP that everyone probably already knows and I'm just bumbling into, but it feels like you can kinda force a special class by going a certain route when leveling. Obviously you always take a skill for the subclass you want if it's offered, but in the early levels if one isn't offered then you'll almost 100% have raising whatever your hero's starting skill is. Do that because you want your skill spaces to maximize subclass skills. You should hit a subclass skill before completely outleveling your starting skill, and then you just keep chaining from that point. If a new subclass skill appears when you could level an existing one, always take the new one. Either I had a run of freakish bad luck before this and freakish good luck once I started or this seems to consistently get you subclasses. Of course you might not be leveling optimally since you're basing your skill choices on getting a subclass and not anything else but some of those subclasses do good shit

>>2448798
thank you Anon