https://news.blizzard.com/en-us/article/24276667/starcraft-ii-5-0-16-ptr-patch-notes>We've tried to make this PTR focus on extending the early and mid-game experience, allowing players to remain competitive on one to three bases for longer periods. We’ve introduced changes to make non-warped Gateway play a more viable path, while also increasing overall strategic diversity across all three races.>In addition, a range of quality-of-life improvements has been implemented to enhance the overall player experience.
i love terran nerfs!the worker change needed to happen years ago lol. sc2 esports will never come back
Mules, inject, and chronoboost should all be removedGiving casters autoattacks was a mistakeI like the changes to starting workers and warpgate though.
>Arc slop increased to 180.Wat?
>>2416469I'm worried about how tje new meta will be. Someone who waits to reach 12 drones before expanding will die so fucking basly to a 8 pooler still. Will I have to start scouting as zerg now?
>>2416536supposed to say Slopeas I understand it the value means that the mutalisk can fire in a 180 degree arc from it's forward facing position, which should make it more manoeuvrable >>2416539yes, you do not get to greed for free anymore
>>2416544Cheese is bad for the game. It's fine to punish greed, but cheese is shit
>>2416555Cheese is part of the genre. You have to decide whether you want to risk a greedy build, be safe, or be aggressive.In a week there will be guides explaining how to defend against any new cheese and good players will handle it while you sit here and cry about it.
they still patch this game?
>>2416527>Giving casters autoattacks was a mistakeWhy? Do elaborate!
>>2416469There's no way most of these changes will make it through because muh pro balance council won't agree to them
>>2416638the balance council got fired like a year ago
My zerg build order with 8 workers:>11 overlord>12 pool>14 hatch>13 6 lings>14 extractor>16 queenBut I've already found that terran gets a reaper faster than I get 6 lings across on a 12 pool. So this build might be cooked. I guess I'll try out a 14 pool instead...but waiting for the ovie to pop is rough. Fucking shit, the lack of any guides is cooking me
>Economy>Starting workers reduced from 12 to 8.nice try but the correct amount is 9t. has been saying this for over a fucking decade
>>2416555aggressive builds are when sc2 is at its best, 200 pop mineouts are complete fucking garbage
wardii is whining like a bitch so you know it's a good idea, or possibly a just weekday
11 overlord12 hatch14 pool16 gas(?)Getting gas delays queen though...
>>2416851who cares what you say
>>2416911people who want to avoid big fucking i told you so's
this much change seems like it needs to be combined with different maps, you can't just slap this on modern maps for the last 10 years
>>2416969They need to bring back 3/4 player maps as wellFuck the "pros" crying about how it's so le heckin hard to scout more than one base :'(
>>2416976there actually have a 3 player map this yearhttps://liquipedia.net/starcraft2/Mothership_LE
>>2416636F1 brain atrophy compared to cerebral BW unit groups
>>2417017F2
Can't for the life of me figure out the ideal extractor timing for Zerg. By the time my spawning pool finishes, if I pull drones to gather gas, hell, to even make the extractor itself, I won't be able to get two queens. I can barely squeeze out one queen. Let alone the lings. So I think extractor comes AFTER queens AND are started, which makes reapers a bit more deadly, but I'm sure terrans can't rush mass reapers anymore either. Have yet to see a reaper proxy yet
>>2417017>rallies ANOTHER devourer through the tank line
*defiler
>>2417057devourers fly...
they should put all the stupid shit back in the game at the same time while doing this big of a changeup >medicavs picking up sieged siege tanks>mothership core with all its abilities>infestors with infested terran
>>2416469I have been enlightened by reading Zero-k balance process and my first thoughts are: what is actually a balance change and what is actually a redesign change?Ghost: It seems they have no idea what they actually want this unit to be. A pure spellcaster, a spellcaster with some auto-attack, a glass canon with strong auto-attacks and spells, or an upgraded marines for lategame? The new proposal is all at once so they nerf it with a +50% pop cost and only slightly nerf his previous ridiculous tankyness.Warpgate: After years, it is suddenly an unbrearable problem that must be redesigned (not rebalanced) after just one patch of Protoss forcing Terran to adapt (they are still massively favored in late game)? Why? It would be like redesigning Zerg instant-remax after 16 years.
>>2417017>have one (1) defiler>control the shit out of it>stop the entire 200/200 terran armyvs>have 8 infestors>try to control the shit out of them>they all die 0,00001s into the 5 second fightSC2chuds need all the help
>>2417135the ghost is simply too powerful against Z and P and should be nerfed or reworked.
Literally no one is talking about the patch itself and instead just circlejerking Broodwars for some reason
i think everyone should start with no workers and just 50 minerals
>>2416976>>2416969I think there's lot left to explore on the map side of things, especially for viewer enjoyment. The trouble is that pros categorically prefer consistency and thus they veto the most interesting maps. 4 players maps are hated by the pros for the same reason, the fact that you could play perfectly and yet scout wrong twice gives too much ground to the guy who blindly all ins against nominally stronger opponents. Disregarding the whole worker start thing, one thing I would have liked to see is just lot wilder maps since if everyone is going to go fast expand anyways may as well mix it up. Low ground main high ground natural, double back expands but no easy 4th base, close by mains where both sides expand away from the opponent, rush paths that start open but then close up when rocks time out, additional entrances to the main with rocks, 4 player maps that aren't squares (and non square maps in general) so the rush distance could be really short or really long, those wings of liberty close air rush long ground rush maps etc. However I do not think maps and major balance should be mixed up. I think the gateway change in particular is too much to mix with the economy changes since the economy changes will inevitably tear up all builds and balance which may hide any issues with the gateways for instance. If you throw in bunch of experimental maps you can't really pinpoint the issue like is the 8 pool too good or do the maps just favor it type of thing. I think in principle the 8 worker change is great and will definitely liven up the early game a lot, prefer that over the wild maps desu but I had kinda resigned myself into the idea that blizzard will never do major shakeups anymore and thus everything had to be shaken up trough the maps specifically.
>>2417161one peon no townhall start or bust
>been enjoying the campaign and coop of sc2 again recently>see this balance change>feel like trying pvp again>queue up 1 match>most miserable experience ever>go back to the actually fun game modes insteadsc2 ladder is mostly just an autism apm check instead of actual strategy, it's a real shame because all the other modes are amazing in comparison, no shit the game (and the rts genre in general) died because companies only gave a shit about esports dogshit that the vast majority of players don't actually want to play even if they enjoy watching it
>>2417267>APM autismoIgnore all the 60APM to master challenges kekaroo
>>2417139they are literally nerfing it
>>2417329My entire point is that most of sc2 ladder is having adhd and autism for the build orders and macro and having the gamesense to not get cheesed. Anything beyond that is just apm.Practicing build orders so much they became automatic and rewiring your brain to have a fucking unit production queue timer constantly tickling your balls isn't fucking strategy.
is it a good time to jump into SC2? i want to learn an RTS but i can't decide between this and AoE2
>>2417398Yes
>>2417398If this patch actually gets released then yeah
>>2417398I've been playing the new patch in the PTR and everyone is in full panic mode and build orders are all over the place. Had some cuck toss build pillons in my main for a warp gate rush zealot all in. Would have worked too if I hadn't sneaked a secret hatchery in his main and counter rushed him. But now I have to worry between if its a cannon rush (pull half of workers) or just a pillon for warp ins (ignore till lings are out) so fuck my life
>ghosts take up 3 supplyhow much do they eat goddamn
>>2417465They just don't want you to run full ghost armies late game which I think is fair.
Starting to get the hang of the early game.
>>2416895why not just 15 hatch?
>>2416469>huge patch>x reduced to x-1>y increase to y+1
>>2417512>reworking the core mechanic of one of the three races and changing how the entire economy works isn't huge
>GSL season 1 ended on may 17>GSL season 2 started on may 20why are they back to back
>>2417345Nerfed when 200 pop.Massively buffed before 200 pop.
Nailed down my own personal opening finally, this seems to match perfectly and feels good>11 overlord>13 hatch>14 pool>18 overlord>18 two queens and 4 lings>18 extractorAnd then just drone on from there. Now to figure out the new roach warren timing and upgrade timings. Lair timings... all I can say though is that it seems protoss is scouting way more often and leading to more blocked hatcheries. You can avoid this by doing a 12 hatch but it's a bit weaker and the timing doesn't match the pool finishing anymore. Adepts are extremely powerful right now since they finish quicker, at least I've been getting wrecked by adepts a lot.
>>2417519low funding
>>2417345snipe and EMP are way too powerful
>>2417182based
>>2417357i think you're old enough for us to tell you the truth - rts games are not strategy games. they are action games.
>>2417575how would you change snipe and emp?
Inject larva/chronoboost are super stupid mechanics and aren't removed because Starcrap is badly designed from the ground up and eliminating these chores would expose that this game is actually very shallow and it's just about bloating your attention to disguise this factSC2 is about openings, cheese and spam all ins
>Picture this>Zerg have suicide units that are costly as fuck>And when you build them, they can only attack once and at melee range>So you lose money when they don't hit a target AND when they do because they don't always kill>And they only hit grounded units>And do friendly fire>And the only way to produce them is a two step process where you build then sacrifice your defining unit to it>And you have to inject larvas like a spastic for awhile to get enough of them>And they require zergling instead of larva>And you need to land at least two of them to kill a single worker
>>2417642sounds absolutely busted, like they will define fundamental combat interactions for the entire history of the game
Serral PTR build order against Byun (Terran)>12 overlord>12 extractor trick>15 hatch>17 pool>17 extractor>18 overlord>18 double queen and skip lings>30 ling speed (2:55)>30 third hatch (3:00)>29 overlord>32 overlord>lair (4:45)>fourth hatch (5:20)>spores (5:25)>bane nest/roach warren (5:30)>double evo (5:45)Of course ling accordingly to agression. I know for a fact a glaves adept all in can happen by 5:30 so if against toss you might want roaches or banes a bit earlier
>>2417598Nexon will save starcraft with their new game
>>2417670Koreans can't save shit.
>>2417583Then get the fuck out of /vst/.
>>2417676>including both turn-based and real-time strategy, turn-based and real-time tactics, single-player and multi-player (including MOBAs)action game board, dwi
>>2417645It is, the ability to turn extra resources into extra power even beyond the supply cap is fantastic. The fact that they can cost effectively annihilate all of the basic units of all races is just extra on top. Banes would still be good if they were for Terran or Protos but they are extra good for Zerg specifically because they are the quickest to remax meaning you are incentivized to suicide your entire army and if yours kills the opponents you come out massively on top when you remax in 30 seconds
I really like the warpgate change at least conceptually not sure if the balance is right. Before you got like 1-3 units out of your gateways unless you were cheesing but now you can use them pretty legitimately until mid game with some real strategic choice on when to if ever you change them over to warpgates. You definitely want warpgates eventually but with the resource cost and the fact that you can make units faster from gateways makes it an interesting tradeoff on when you go for the warps.
>>2417345>they are literally nerfing it>literally nerfing-Attack range increased from 6 to 7-Snipe no longer cancels upon taking damageThe most asinine thing about them made even worse.Lock on expensive gas units? -10k in units lost. Good bye. GGWP.
>>2419172The damage increase on non-light units is just as big, ghosts destroy banelings now.
>>2417683>The fact that they can cost effectively annihilate all of the basic units of all races*if they are conveniently lumped together, alone without other units around and your opponent is watching some video on a second screen instead of playingNot to be dramatic, but I'm retiring from playing Sc2 and instead I'll just occasionally watch Serral play instead. All the builds and strats I grinded over the years - pissed away. Total casual death... I hate this patch with passion.
>>2419369quitting because your one trick got nerfed is the epitome of being a casual bitch THOUGH
SC2 has always been a hot topic for me because i genuinely know it is a badly designed game and stopped playing a long time agoI'm curious about it though because I had fun with it -sometimes- but mules and injecting larva and a bunch of obfuscating shit is just there to prevent people from realizing they're not fighting the other player but the game itself, because the interface and orders are awful. But i want to try this patch to see if there's something i like now.I wish they just removed inject larva and mules and chronoboost and stopped pretending the game is nothing more than spam and deathballs. C&C games are that but they embrace it. There's still some fun to be had with simple games. Maybe they can add some actual depth instead of pretending to be deep.
>>2416469>Steady Targeting:>No longer cancels upon taking damage.Pure insanity. I can't even imagine the mental state of someone proposing this. This madness, plus the +10 attack, likely means that a Ghost can attack a Broodlord straightforwardly and win.
>>2419719With the supply increase that's a fight you should win as zerg so long as you commit with an infestor or something into the fight. Though if you dance around then you will lose.
>>2419725Do you... Even play this game?
>>2419725>4 pop broodlord + 2 pop infestor should win against 3 pop ghostThank for the insight, terran apologist.
>>2419737You need 2 snipes to kill a broodlord but with 3 supply ghosts zerg can come to the fight with a broodlord and a roach or 4 lings or something for every 2 ghosts you bring. I believe if the Zerg comes in with 10 broodlords an infestor and 9 roaches and just A moves into 20 ghosts that snipe all of the broods the fungal, the roach damage and the boordlord/broodlings damage will leave the zerg standing in that engagement. Same should still work out if you come in with a flank of 40 zerglings or some banelings etc. That's ignoring the fact that the ghost player has to do something that's arguably more difficult in that scenario which is accurately layer the snipes on the broods while the zerg just really has to A move + land a fungal on the ghosts that are sitting still channeling their own spell.>>2419741You need 2 ghosts to snipe the broodlords so it's broodlord and 2 supply of support units vs 2 ghosts.
>>2419745What a weird way to reaffirm that you don't play this game.
>>2419747I just don't think the matchup is as one sided as you paint it to be, Ghost is supposed to counter the broodlord and with good play that should remain the case even with the supply advantage but it's not some kind of brainless silver bullet. In a real engagement you can't just stand there sniping broods when the zerg has much larger conventional army and is rolling in with banelings that just demolish ghosts requiring one less hit now than pre patch too.
>>2419745Broodlords are more expensive than ghosts, take far longer to make than ghosts, require way more tech than ghosts, and are more vulnerable than ghosts. The ghost is meant to be a counter to broodlords, and the infestor was a counter to ghosts. But no longer.
broodlords use their children to fight for them and can't actually do anything themselves, ghosts are cool and therefore they should be better
8 pool destroys zerg8-9-10 pool gets obliterated by terran (both depos already up and reaper 5 seconds away from being done)Haven't tested it against toss because toss always early scouts and it pisses me the fuck off
>>2420558You have to scout early otherwise you die to the 8 pool. I don't think it's all that difficult to defend though if you do scout and the map isn't super small.
>>2420679Zerg should never scout, they are the punching bag anyway. Toss should always scout and Terran only scouts if they wish to greed a CC first
>>2420702I meant that toss has to scout the zerg otherwise they die to the 8 pool so they never die to the 8 pool because they always scout it
I'm getting my ass eaten EVERY SINGLE TIME I try to transition into mutas, holy fuck. At least two base muta seems to be just dead in the water.
Why does Blizzard have such a hardon for fucking over Zerg in SC2? Is it because it was the best race in WoL? This race is absolutely no fun in LotV where you’re just a punching bag for 5-6 minutes trying to lose as few drones as possible so you can then start finally playing the game
>>2417109Zero-k's approach to balance is an outlier. In most companies, balance team is explicitly a customer satisfaction role. Your primary job is to collect data in user complaints and address them. It doesn't matter if a unit has an overwhelming pick/win rate if nobody complains about it. It doesn't matter if a unit is technically fine, if people complain you have to do something.Companies like Blizzard regard balance as a money sink with very low value. Being on the balance team isn't a prestigious position, it's punishment and usually means you're on your last chance before becoming a layoff. Most people on these teams are either desperately trying to generate positive impact metrics they can use to save their careers and escape balance hell, or they're already checked out and spend most of their chair time looking for a new job.Once you understand that, both the explicit role these people occupy and the underlying psychology of it, you will understand what water-treading, can-kicking balance patches like this come from. There's no longer a competitive authority hovering overhead to say "hey don't need this faction again they're already weak" so balance changes are guided entirely by complaint and matchmaking zeitgeist with no greater vision or design conscious.
>>2421258ongoing retribution from broodfestor days. zerg is overpowered at the highest levels of play but shit everywhere else, but every race is in a wierd position where a seemingly simple change leads to msssive balance problems, i.e. reactor cyclones, infested marines doing spell damage, og shield battery overcharge.
>>2421477>zerg is overpowered at the highest levels of playLets not make these dumb, baseless statements.
>>2421786It's a strictly true statement but paints the wrong picture when really it's just Serral being the best. One of those what if Serral played Terran instead thing you know.
>>2421795I don't know how Serral would play Terran, but if he were playing Protoss, I would expect him to constantly cast Revelations and do hit-and-run attrition with Tempests; something no Protoss tries to do. Almost makes you wonder what is the use of those 400 APM pros have.
>>2421824One of the funniest things I see when I watch pros play is the classic "spend lots of effort microing army while it's doing nothing, then looking away to hit that macro right as something interesting is about to have". Type examples of this are doing a hallucination scout or sending in the oracles or microing air units in general. Like you know you are running those banshees into the enemy base, is THIS really the right moment to queue up more marines? I think Serral is phenomenal in the way he gets more out of his clicks than most others.
>>2421795>It's a strictly true statementNo it's not. It lacks any rigor. What people often mean by this is that Zerg wins a lot of tournaments. And that statement in turn denies the context of what actually happened in those games OR ignores the fact that' professional pool consists of barely ~30 players.It's a strictly whimsical statement.
Starting to piss me off that I can't find any build orders just because it's a PTR. How the fuck do I do a roach timing attack with 8 worker start? When do I get evo chambers and start upgrades? Lair timing?Not even one Reddit thread at the very least to theorize build orders together. It was fun being blind at first but now I just feel inefficient
>>2422087It's PTR some of those things will change, no one will bother making up build orders when they are just experimenting with them. You shouldn't be laddering on PTR unless you can come up with build orders yourself anyways.
>>2422087I was doing Serral's build that anon posted earlier in this thread and it seems to be working nicely
>>2422090I'm the one who posted that. I didn't use it because that turned out to be Serral's first time playing the PTR. He did say the extractor trick isn't worth it and 11 overlord is probably better since youre not floating larva anyway. But I guess I can try just following that build
>>2422087SC2 sucks so much because it's all about timings instead of tactics, because fighting doesn't matter but the bare minimumIts all etas and cheese
>>2422168Cheese is literally the definition of tactics. Nobody chooses the fair fight if they can set conditions for an unfair fight instead.Combat sucks ass in these games anyways. Nobody, not even the pros, are carefully microing 200 supply armies, they just box select, A-move, stutter step and occasionally cycle through their hotkeyed casters for a battle-turning nuke spell that's worth more individually than the entire rest of the 200 supply army. When RTS try to force you to engage with their blob army gameplay they just drive their players away and fail, starcraft stuck around because their incompetence let cheese, and thus the competitive community thrive. Now all they do is keep the cheeses rotating so one doesn't get too stinky before it's replaced.
>>2422213>Cheese is literally the definition of tactics. Nobody chooses the fair fight if they can set conditions for an unfair fight instead.This is downstream of the merchant caste conquering the noble and priest castes.
>>2422213Cheese is almost always a strategy actually.
>>2422213Explain the strategy of shield battery void rays or mass reapers in earlier patches? Just abusing extremely broken mechanics isn't strategy. Cheese =/= strategy
>>2416469There is no reason for the game to be updated. Game was finished in 2010. Every fucking update in this game's history provides the illusion of change and is unnecessary.
>Protoss OP, say the Terrans
>>2422590>Zergs rub hands in the corner
Make overlords slightly faster again, revert ghost damage buff, give vipers a phantom auto attack like disruptors, buff spore damage against all types rather than just biological, and send the patch live
>>2422222merchants never rule m8
>>2422681Spore isn't supposed to counter terran or protoss mass air, you are suppose to scout those. Zerg air has to be countered more strongly by the spore because Zerg can instantly shit out 30 mutas in a tech switch.
>>2422685If the oponent zerg has managed to save up 3000/3000 resources without you killing them, that'd be quite impressive on you. Mutas already get raped by spores without the buff. And they are insanely expensive (imo mutas should be 100/75 for how weak they are). Spores ass raping oracles would stop one of the most cancerous metas in SC2 rn which is to rush oracle in every PvZ matchup
>>2422213>When RTS try to force you to engage with their blob army gameplay they just drive their players away and fail,Play good RTS games please (not just Starcrap)
>>2422854It's just a question of how prepared you have to be for this kind of thing. If you scout a Terran and you see he's on factory tech how many Banshees can you realistically expect to hit you in 2 minutes? Like 40 for a port and switch, 40 seconds for a banshee so 1 just about gets there in time. If you scout the Terran every 2 or 3 minutes then you aren't in immediate threat of dying from the air. Same thing with Protos, 40 for a Stargate, 40 for the Oracles you can probably just about get 2 if you chronoboost them out. Again not an immediate threat if left unscouted for 2 minutes. If you do the same with Zerg and see that he has a lair, that's 70 seconds for a Spire 25 for Mutas to pop and you could easily have enough for 8 or even 10 saved up just within the Spires build time. That means you are in immediate danger of just outright dying if your bases are unguarded when this hits. More over let's say you do scout that the opponent has spire/gate/port and do build a spore in time. The Spore has to be a credible threat to pack of 8-10 or so Mutas otherwise it simply just doesn't do it's job as an early anti-air defense in that matchup. The Mutas have both much more HP and more damage than the 1-2 Banshees or 2 Oracles you could expect in a similar window of time.
>>2417592I would move EMP to the raven, increase the cost slightly, and make it so protoss shield upgrades reduce the damage they take from EMP by x% (energy loss is still the same though)Also taking damage should increase the cast time of snipe but not cancel it completely.
>>2425048EMP being on the raven fixed so many issues with Terran it is unreal. Hydras being hatch tech as well. Balance council is so fucking bad
>>2425048>>2425093>EMP being on the raven fixed so many issues with Terran it is unreal. Hydras being hatch tech as well.I feel like you fellas might wanna try this other rts blizzard made, it's even better balanced despite having not been patched for years...
>>2425101Not being able to select your whole army and being limited to 12 is a cancer from old RTS games that I simply cannot tolerate.
>>2416469>huge patch>it's a few balance numbers tweakedDo balancefags really?
>>2425251It's the biggest patch since Legacy of the Void, completely reworks Protoss and changes the economy for all races.
>>2425101I just think the power budget of the ghost is too high and it should either have snipe or EMP, not both.
>>2425252Sounds like change for the sake of change, and not for gradual improvements.
>>2425349no virtue in stagnancy, and slowing down the start is undoing an old mistake
>>2425349>>2425338>>2425349>>2425252Will they ever remove inject larvae and creep tumors?
>>2416469>Neural Parasite on builder SCVs will only expire at structure completion.It's annoying that the game didn't launch with this. Does the other faction still share your own supply too?
>>2425384Didn't they say they also were going to add a ranged attack to casters (stupid Infestors) so they don't walk head on with A move towards the enemy? I tried SC2 2 days ago and it was the same game as always
>>2425384You still only get 200 supply. It's a meme but a good meme. Honestly i'm not entirely not convinced that if you "just got" an SCV after you finish hive or something that it wouldn't be worth it to tech to medivacs and build couple sensor towers regardless though. Just too much hassle to do it if an enemy is harassing you + you need to also get a command center to truly get an SCV of your own.>>2425389The patch isn't on live, it's just on PTR now and yes infestors have a dummy attack now just like high templar.
>>2425392>have a dummy attack now just like high templar.I suggested this like 10 years ago because it was really amateurish to have a game with these issues Blizzard and SC2 has been a forced meme for years and there are much better games in the genre already
>>2425398>issuesIt's a design choice. It's fine if units exists that are harder to control properly.
i'm tired of a-moving my warp prisms with my army and they just die, give them an auto-attack
>>2425370>no virtue in stagnancyThen focus on underutilised units: Battlecruisers, Swarmhosts and Adepts.
>>2425378at this point everyone knows that a) the 'macro mechanics' were a mistake and b) you can't unfuck it without rebalancing literally everything
>>2425378Are you retarded? Those are incredibly fun. I love spreading creep. Hate seeing it be killed though
>>2417583StarCraft 2 is an immersive sim, just like every other game ever made
>>2425417>It's a design choice.Its a bad design choice
>>2426110you were a bad design choice
>>2425398name 6 better games in the genre
>>2426328Dawn of WarCompany of Heroes 1Age of Empires 2Supreme CommanderBeyond All ReasonStarcraft 1
>>2425378>retard newfag doesn't remember when macro mechanics were removed in LOTV and it was universally hatedTo begin with, spreading tumors and larva injects were added because the game had no skill expression without them. It's never getting removed because you are overwhelmingly in the minority
>>2426441>no TibSunretard
>>2426471He was asked to provide six so he provided sixNot his fault that list of games better than sc2 is longer
>>2426478Indeed that is correctAnd even though I do love Tiberian Sun it is kinda ass to play in MP to be quite honest
>>2426441>dow 2 instead of 3 in purgatory >act of aggression still in purgatory >homeworld 3 and c&c 4 are absent from purgatory >warno isn’t in purgatory >c&c games in a backwards order, lumped together with tempest rising of all things and aren’t split into more sci-fi and more surreal>first red alert and emperor battle for dune are missing >tempest rising isn’t in purgatory >zero-k? bar? gates of hell? With each passing iteration this chart gets worse and worse as a new young larper tries to improve on garbage instead of making it from ground up
>>2426471It’s there, it’s just hidden behind Twat Wars and lumped together with Tranny Rapist and RA3
>>2426541Never mind, bar and zerok are there, I’ve been blinded by my rage
>>2426441>SupCom 2>Some people like themReally?
is there no active SC2 general?
>>2426655you people and the league of legends fags are the reason /vg/ exists
>>2426687Funny that the SC2 general was such a shithole that they were banned off /vg/ afterwards too lmao
>>2426655there isn't. For some reason this game is unable to create a worthwhile general zone anywhere. I keep checking every few months since like 2015 it's always either kshitters who stopped playing the game years ago or e-celeb shit or just a dead thread.
>>2426655Starcraft 2 general chat is pretty active
>>2428326You can't call terrans niggers there though
>>2428362>You can't call terrans niggersYou can't now?Pretty sure you could not that long ago or is my memory wrong? You could enable or disable language filter, but that just replaced stuff with "*" for you alone. I'll repeat that I might remember it wrong, but I've seen pretty wild rants in general chat and e-celebs stay away from it as far away as they can during streams.
>>2428401So... Are you saying that SC2 general is Wargame: Bad Dragon global chat reborn?
>>2428362Are there even any niggers in starcraft 2? I played the campaigns when i was like 11 years old and I don't think any of the 1v1 units are black.
>>2428422Yes. Warfield is the first black character that comes to mind, so is Duran from SC1. I don't think any of the actual game portraits for any 1v1 unit is black, but it's safe to assume that lot of the infantry units are in fact blacks since I think marines and reapers at least were for the most part convicts.
>>2428454Marauders are def black
>>2428458Despite being just 13% of the sector population, blacks make up over 50% of the Marauders. This shows that Ghosts discriminate in patrolling black neighborhoods. Saying that perhaps they should stop murdering is anti-khalani
>>2428422Gabriel Tosh is forgotten...Also I'm pretty sure both firebats and marauders are black, even in Heroes of the Storm the firebat rep Blaze is black in that one skin that removes his armor
>>2428468>I'm a terrazine nigger and I want to be free>Hell with the N double A C P>I dont drink>I dont cuss>I wanna ride on the front of the bus
>>2428468>>2428522
>>2428528what?
The Raven AI identifies as Black
>>2426572SupCom2 is like going out for burgers or pizza rather than actual dining out. Way less choice but its much quicker. SC2 does have a lot thats really fun like the Nove unit cannon or more fun strategic weapons.
>>2428422Yeah, all protoss are niggers
the fuck is RSL
>>2429419the racist starcraft league, tasteless can't control himself
>>2429466based
>>2429469is this why nathanias was blacklisted from casting?
>Patch updateZerg bros hope is on the horizon
>Zerg cabal gets all their nerfs reverted againevery single time
>>2432268MULEs and chronoboost are bad but larva injection is a gut punch made "gameplay" and will never ever be fixed
>>2432269scarlet is a big part of that team and can be very persuasive
>>2432351you think they Eiffel tower'd that?
>>2432363you think they didn't Eiffel tower that?
>>2432268Zerg finally getting buffed without any nerfs. Maybe we won't be oracle/banshee/adept/liberator punching bags anymore
They should test removing injects, maybe Zergtrannies should learn to build some macro hatches instead
>>2432985>queens have their limiters removed, no longer chained to hatcheries and forced to waste energy on macro
>>2432982The patch was really rough for Zerg early game. They got hit the hardest by the 8 worker start in terms of how far it sets them for certain worker and tech goals. Adepts and Oracles in particular just didn't exists in the before times when early pools were more viable. Terran has always been kinda immune to them anyways but at least they were forced to be bit cautious and build on the high ground.>>2433016It would be a gigantic nerf. Instead of having queens that can fight and most importantly shoot air you now need more hatcheries, which means you either don't get queens or you don't get army and drones (because of no larva) since you need to put down extra hatchery for every expansion you put down just to keep making stuff.
>>2432351>>2432363daily reminder these are male logs he's shitting out
>>2429469based
>>2432982that won't last, they already started whinging about it, they will revert itall i ever wanted was another option...A option to queens, i just wanted the buff hatchery is getting and hydralisk at hatchery tech
>>2433232The worst nerf to the hydra wasn't the cost or tech level, it was going from hitscan to projectile for no fucking reason.
>>2433273terran units should change to projectiles instead of hitscan tbqhwymnh
Inject larva should have a cast time of like 15 seconds and have an elaborate animation of the queen impregnating the hatcheryAlso creep tumours should be removed and replaced by creep colonies, which then get upgraded into spores or spinesAlso you should be limited to one queen per hatchery.
>>2433282
we've all though about it, i mean come on the thing is asking for it with it's giant soft warm undulating hole
>>2433321instead of queens injecting, hatchery/lair/hive should have the consume ability where a unit is chucked into the mouth? and is slowly consumed over the course of 10 seconds granting 50% of the resources a unit is worth and a larva
>>2433327>spend 100% of the resources and a larva to make 50% of the resources and larva
>>2433331zerglings
>>2433356>instead of queens injecting you now have to cycle in zerglings to transform 25 minerals into one larvasuch mechanics much wow
>>2433356>>2433327I think at this point it would be better to feed it larvae to spawn more larvae after a certain period of time, so you either have larvae now for immediate impact (making more drones/military units) or losing the "now" factor for future big gains
>>2433359>>2433363or you could just make a macro hatcheryand we could remove chrono boostand mules
Is protoss still in the game? If so, why?
>>2433364Kinda like the dedication to the seethe
>>2433364I agree but since we need to appease muh clicking addicts I'm just spitballing ideas
>>2433327There should be a hive tech upgrade that makes hatcheries generate larva faster so you can get rid of queens and just rely on hatches in late game.
>>2433366present but marked as deprecated
lol even the zerg pros know the larva change is fucking retarded
>>2433474the pros will complain from anything that either changes their established playstyle or builds in any way or anything that is that allows noobs to keep up like more autocaststhey should first fucking play it for at least a month before they bitch about it
>>2433487it was more about how effortlessly the zergs smashed there way through this ro8friendly reminder that reynor streams league more than starcraft now
>>2433491protoss who?
>Larva/Eggs will no longer collide with/block player structures or units.i appreciate this far more than the queen "buff" going from 175 to 150 again
>>2433575was that a problem people ran into?
>>2433579trapped my queen between 2 ballsacks as she was injecting when an oracle passed by on more than one occasion, yes am platinum
>>2433575wait, just the larva and their eggs not the ravager bane and lurker too?
>>2433579it was annoying a bit
so is it better for protoss to go full warpgates or gateways now? who played enough to actually tell? which one feels better?
>>2434577Warpgates are still better thanks to the fact that they put the units directly where they are needed, you also only pay the supply and resource cost for a unit when you need it instead of 20 seconds earlier. You loose the 50 resources to transform a gateway but that's just cost of doing business now. If you are specifically planning to defend (with your gateway units anyways) you don't have to transform to warp right away since you want the units near the gateways anyways so you can push for an expansion or tech timing harder but by the mid game you definitely need warpgates. Basically get your 3rd, your first air unit your robo or your dark shrine going and then transform.Protoss is balanced around the fact that they can take a fight and then have 30 supply of zealots join the army 10 seconds after it happened from a nearby prism or a nexus area (and now pylons just anywhere). This does not work without warpgates. Even if you aren't maxed out by the time you get to even your third base producing from a gateway will just be slower than doing it from a warpgate simply because the units take time to waddle to where they are needed and it's easier to miss out on queuing units in gateways to miss precious seconds that don't matter so much with warps
>>2434577Protoss players are utterly retarded. You're supposed to convert them into warp gates when the opponent is attacking you or you are attacking them. During idle time, you leave them as gateways. They can't seem to grasp this simple fucking fact and just force themselves to go warp gate 24/7 and complain
>>2434577Always go warpgates, the minor increase in production speed means nothing when you still have to run your army across the map / between bases.You still save time by just warping units in where you need them, and have the added benefit of the panic "oh shit I need to quickly rebuild 20 zealots" button
>patch got pushed to live serversSo this is how SC2 dies?
they made larva from 10.7 to 9 initially, now to 9.5, left queens 175 and made hatcheries 300...and pushed it live
>>2435265bro you don't understand zerg was underpowered please ignore tournament results for the past 7 years
>>2435259jorg killed hots, it's only appropriate that they kill lotv too
FUCKING PIECES OF SHIT NERFED ZERG IN RETURN FOR 1 SECOND FASTER LARVAS FUCK MY LIFE
>>2435267Zerg is the most hurt by the 8 worker start, they definitely needed something. I don't think this was it though but the direction is right. They need to buff zerg instead of nerfing the other two. The problem with larva spawn rate is that while it does fix the early game timing issue it keeps reverberating until the late game, particularly the mid game droning is accelerated for no reason.
Dude my skills feel like I am back to silver league execution wise wtf am I doing I can't seem to get into the groove. I'm missing injects, forgetting essential tech, not scouting properly. It's as if as soon as the muscle memory gets fucked with my whole game got fucked
>>2416469The Ghost Steady Targetting change goes against more than 25 years of design philosophy starting from Starcraft 1.Never ever has a spellcaster been given an ability that literally translates to "energy = pure unavoidable damage".Some spells were treading the line. Fungal is unavoidable pure damage but the value is low, and the ball can be dodged. Storm can be escaped. Previous Steady Targetting was cancellable. Feedback is only for spellcasters. The closest we had before was Parasitic Bomb where the victim had to go through 120 damage, but I guess that could be justified by Zerg otherwise terrible AA.This shows Blizzard total intellectual bankruptcy and, even more bizarrely, it also makes no sense. If the problem with balance was that Ultralisks are unstoppable against Terran, it would have made sense if we assume the people in charge is a pajeet who doesn't give a fuck about anything, but what does it actually fix here? I have no idea.
>>2435549broodling doesn't count as a damage spell, then?then the solution here is to have snipe always kill the target
>>2435549>this nigger has never heard of plaguelmao
they should patch BW imagine the shitstorm
>>2435549>Never ever has a spellcaster been given an ability that literally translates to "energy = pure unavoidable damage".what is plague and irradiate and EMP (vs protoss)
>>2435847i would trade all the zerg units and larva in the game for zerg to have defilers with unchanged spellkit
>>2435549>goes against more than 25 years of design philosophy starting from Starcraft 1irradiate, plague, spawn broodling, yamato, etcare you retarded?
>>2435902>to encourage more active play in the early game we have decided every match would start with 12 workers
I have come to shill the Nightmare difficulty mod for SC2 - my interest in SC2 has spiked on account of the 8 worker start so I've been replaying it since the announcement, this shit is actually difficult and exciting. I can honestly say this is one of the best videogames I've played and the installation for it is easy as hell.Please anon, if you like the singleplayer then give the nightmare mods a go!
Lower worker start is actually a good thingI'm sorry your tiktok zoomer brains can't handle it
>>2435902Koreans will just reject it and branch.
>>2435968People generally aren't mad at the lower work start or the mineral changes specifically except maybe some casters. The lower work start is what I would call a categorically good change. That does not mean they can't find ways to fuck it up.
zergbros what is our build order
>>2436089I'm doing 15 hatch, 16 extractor 15 pool exclusively because I like it when the timing of my hatch finishing matches the pool and I can make two queens at the same time. 11 overlord and 18 overlord. The rest I've yet to figure out.
>>2436089I think the super early pools just don't work particularly well, at least not against P or T. I think droning up to 12 and then sort of pretending like nothing has changed works for the most part. Nothing about Zerg has actually changed fundamentally to change your strategies in the sense (unlike the warpgate or ghost changes) so old builds mostly work the same just with different timings. The larva buff works sort of silently in the background, I suppose it does benefit ling spam more than ultra rushing but then again it helps you scale the eco too. Watch out for early gasses though you seem to have more minerals than you actually do at low worker counts.
>>2436115>>2436131What if im getting 8 pooled, also do you bother sending a drone to fuck with terrans building their wall
>be zerg>get buffs>play as if nothing has changed while the other 2 races have to come up with completely new build orderszergbros is it our era
>>2436159In ZvZ early pools are fine, it's a rock paper scissors type of thing it has always been. Rushes beat economy builds, economy builds beat conservative builds and conservative builds beat rushes.>also do you bother sending a drone to fuck with terrans building their wallI mean if you are all in you may as well all in harder. >>2436167Zerg is hurt by far the most by the 8 worker economy changes. It's just that the balance of their units or stuff hasn't changed. Before the larva change you went from 12 workers (with 3 larva) to 12 workers starting situation to 12 workers and protos having 11 and a pylon which means that essentially P/T were ahead in tech from the get go. This is because with the 12 worker start P/T were already no longer limited by money but by construction time since 12 workers can gather enough minerals for a gate/rax during the construction of the pylon/depot and for the first unit during the construction of the building. It's not like the other races just got nerfed either, Protoss warpgates are stronger than ever once you pay the tax to transform them. A classic 4 gate for instance costs you 200 resources more to transform and 100 for a pylon but you save a robo and a prism which is 500 resources which means this type of 4-8 gate pressure is actually stronger on the offence than it used to be. Similarly ghosts are worse when massed up and maxed out but stronger in the mid game and when used for snipe.
>>2436167Zerg has always done well in low starting worker count eras. The biggest problem with modern SC2’s direction was how Terran and Protoss were capable of teching while simultaneously expanding/taking their natural with very little risk thanks to map designs that’re disadvantageous to Zerg units. Zerg players are either A) forced to do risky all-ins because fighting on a similar economy doesn’t work against races whose units are more cost efficient than yours or B) macroing hard to economically outpace and whittle down your opponent in a war of attrition.The latter turned out to be more reliable but you’re forced to play defensively because all of your resources are funneled into Hatcheries and drones for long-term gain. Hence the “punching bag” identity that the race assumed in LotV. The more starting workers, the faster and higher the income, the less pronounced Zerg’s early game advantage is which happens to be larva- you can make multiple workers or army units while other races are stuck queuing up single-file per structure (at least, this was true in SC1/BW).With 8 workers AND shorter larva spawn time, Zerg enjoys that advantage again. The other races take longer to reach their higher tech structures and units- polarizing units like Oracles, Banshees, and mass Hellions aren’t just swooping in by the 3 minute mark anymore.Meanwhile, you can easily saturate your natural while working on your third while sitting behind a healthy amount of Queens and a sizable ling force if you were feeling extra cautious. Even early Reapers and double Adept openers don’t feel like threats anymore with how easy it is to churn out drones and lings early-game.Zerg still had fundamental design flaws in SC2 like how fucking awful some of the units are, but it doesn’t really matter when you can bust your opponent’s front door open with like 30 hydras at 5 mins while they’re sitting on maybe 2 tanks or a single Colossus and 4 warpgates.
>>2436089You've got to open 3pool first against T since the reaper gets there way too early otherwise. I'm doing safe builds for now since there's so much cheeseI saw a spine rush versus P that I want to try as well, from ROgue I think?Mostly I've been sticking to my guns and using ling bane hydra versus T and roach allins versus P
>>2436167As a Zerg I feel like the larvae spawn rate increase is a bit too much in the mid-late game, it'll probably be tweaked. The rest of the changes don't really impact anything. I don't understand why they made the upgrades cheaper though.
>>2436214I think the point was to allow for more +1/+2 armor timing attacks with roaches in particular and to make the upgrades more consistent. Bio, protos armor and weapons and zerg melee and ranged were all that price, only zerg armor was more expensive. Of course the idea behind that was probably because it impacts "more" units than Terran (which needs separate armor for vehicles) and Protoss (which need shield upgrades too) but still.
>>2436131Against Terran I've tried 8 pool and they already walled fully before your lings can arrive. It only ever works against CC first. I did manage to deny a CC in the natural'z wall, but your economy is so SHIT with an 8 pool that I was still behind even after having them cancel a CC that was 60% done (tbf they also got a gold base, pro tip for zergs, blacklist the new map called Rorschach, terran gets a free gold base)Against toss, nexus first is so incredibly rare, and toss always scouts, so 8 pools are horrible against them. Against zerg I've seen 12 pools working decently well. 6 lings and then expand. I fucked up defending it because I didnt commit enough by skipping spines and got flooded but its not hard to survive it. My conclusion is that early pool is pretty dead rn
I've played like 10 games and not a single one of them was vs protoss. We're so fucking back bros
The amount of seethe over the starting worker reduction shows how many people never played WoL lmao
>>2435902they did, valks are busted as shit now
>>2436357the reddit seems so mald, the community is so small but if its like any other game reddit its probably all mongoloid players
>>2436451i want to congratulate reddit on managing to create a worse shithole of morons than the old battle.net forums. it wasn't easy, but you did it.
>>2436457oh man i forgot that place exited, it was bad for WoW i wonder how bad it is for starcraft lol
>>2435939The nightmare mods are kinda ass. They are designed as Youtube content first, actually fun to play second. The WoL one is alright, but HotS is an unbelievable waste of time. The LotV one was so unbeatable for anybody other than the fat speedrun abuser guy, that the dev had to drop a patch almost immediately so that people would actually play it.The dev doesn't actually understand how the game works, his stated goals include buffing stuff that doesn't get used a lot in the base game and nerfing stuff that does (which is unnecessary to nerf 9/10 times), but half the time he does the exact opposite. Or the so called buff to something is meaningless or only applies in excessively specific scenarios.
They finally nerfed protoss? Based
>>2436779Starcraft is healing
>>2436779>finallyToss has been nerfed constantly for like a decade bwo
>>2436874>tosstrannies actually believe this shitlmao
>>2436684>HotS is an unbelievable waste of timeI'm playing it right now and I'm loving it, what did you hate about it? I think these most of missions are in a sweet spot where you actually have to pay attention and multitask to be successful like in multiplayerSome of them are way too tough for my taste so he could've toned it down a little here and there but I'm halfway past the second mod and so far it's been incredible.>>2436874lol
>>2436874Throughout the history of BW and SC2 terran and zerg are the only real races with extreme skill ceilings always battling back and forthToss is the beginner bullshit race that sometimes gets a fluke tournament win. Its now back in its rightful place where it fucking belongs
>>2437603All I hear is tranny seethe because a CHAD PROTOSS BVLL outskilled him on ladder :)
>>2437610>the chad race that takes more than half of GM every time because its easier to playI mean I guess you can make that argument. A stereotypical "chad" would absolutely pick protoss for a shortcut and then gloat about it
is there a current statistic for how many people are playing which race on the new patch?
>>2437610
why do they hate zerg so much?why does terran gets autocast heal on medvac and protoss gets autocast shield battery, but i have to fucking spam transfuse like madman?make those 2 manual cast or make queen transfuse autocast too, actually make all spells that make sense be able to be autocastedif you autocast mule it should drop down on the nearest mineral field every time there is energy for itand why does everyone gets asshurt over hearing this? you can play without autocast if you like it that much
>>2437755Medivac only exists to hover above units healing them while queen transfuse is very situational
>>2437819so you're saying that queens should lose the ability to transfuse and instead zerg natural regeneration should be increased double and double that while burrowed + some armor? yes that is a good compromise
>>2437558Every mission in these mods has this design where if you don't take control of the entire map in 5 minutes, the whole map will get clogged with random clumps of enemy units and production structures that basically prevent you from getting anything done on time or efficiently, which blows when half the missions already have some sort of soft timer objective.The HotS one expects the player to fight against nonstop huge amounts of enemies every two minutes while playing as Zerg, the race where every unit is basically a suicide unit that needs big economy to constantly replace. Oh but wait, you never get more than 2 and a half bases on most missions. The first third of the campaign has you stuck on low/mid tech stuff versus vast number of high tech counter units.The increased numbers of enemies naturally reigns in Kerrigan's power just by existing, but the dev doesn't understand that, so every Kerrigan ability was made borderline useless, some of them (Crushing Grip) barely even do what it says anymore.The custom ability AI for enemies is not an actual Tactical AI script, it's just a trigger that gets checked every 0.5 seconds for every unit of that type on the map for the enemies. So if your army meets an enemy attack wave with a High Templar, and he storms you, the trigger was spamming every 0.5 seconds and causes the trigger control to remain on. The AI won't use units marked as trigger controlled, so it stays where it was. You retreat to deal with the attack wave at your base, and boom there's a random HT waiting to storm you in a random spot on the map, adding to the map clogging problem.The adjustments to the unit mutation choices did not solve the problem they were supposed to. There is still always an objectively best option out of the 3, and you will never use the other two.Every mission requires constant save-loading
>>2437845Also there is a very lazy, flat 45-90 second randomized delay on arrival times for all enemy attack waves. Sometimes they double up on each other very early in the mission before you could ever possibly even think about having enough stuff out to hold.
>>2437755>why do they hate the most OP race in both gamesgee, I wonder
autocast, smart casting, fake attacks for castersthese are all bad things and should be removed.
>>2437878yes, i should be able to only use the medvac by manually clicking the spell and then the unit i want to heal. same with battery
>>2437878tosstoddlers cant play the game without training wheels
>>2437879Yes, that's how the battery worked in BW and it should be standard.Also medivacs are retarded and should be split back into medics and dropships.Also warpgate should be removed.and Mulesand larva injectsand creep tumours should be replaced by creep colonies againWidow mines and swarm hosts should cost minerals to rearm as well.
>>2437882You can just play BW if you want, anon, it's right there, it never went anywhere
i just want things other races have like an early unit that can shoot air things that is not shit and can be used offensively, a heal that i don't have to click myself, and letting overlords poop creep all the time so i can wall off
>>2437845I think the time pressure is what makes the game fun, if you didn't have it then you could beat the missions even if you play like garbage. Your second complaint is literally just about macro - you absolutely can keep up with the enemy if you play well. On one early mission in particular the tech-disparity really is crushing (lings and queens against thor hellbat tank and bio) but for most of the game it's a non issue. I actually really enjoy Kerrigan being toned down, you could legit beat most missions just by microing her even on Brutal, that's not what a real time strategy game should be about. The "constant" save loading is not an issue on most missions. Like I said some are too hard so you need to savescum but most missions are fair enough in difficulty - plus because of the time constraints they take no more than 15 minutes per mission.The enemy filling the map with bullshit is annoying but you learn to cut off routes through the map to counter it.I've not noticed the AI bugs.I think the mutation changes have been worthwhile, I swap them occasionally to suit the mission better, which wasn't something I had to pay attention to in the base game.The attacks converging can be devastating, I agree.In short, it sounds to me like you downloaded a PvE mod that's supposed to make the game ridiculously difficult and then your criticism is "game too hard".
>>2437882if you aren't filling out a tax form for each individual bullet fired from a marine's gauss rifle, are you even playing starcraft?
>>2438147>stims into things that are supposed to counter them and melts them down before they are even touchedmarines should have their attack split into 2 or ever 3 that sum up to the same damage so armored units actually works against them
>>2438156>split marine attack into 3>every terran rushes +1 mass marines every single game for the rest of timeThe problem is ultras are just really shit at their only job. They should be allowed to walk on top of other units like collosi and aberrations, or at least most units. I'm sure they already have push priority, but it's just not enough and doesn't solve the problem that ultras getting to the front means fewer zerglings can connect. Maybe increase their movement speed slightly too.
>>2438156There should be no hitscan units in the game.
>>2438145Not that guy but I enjoy the nightmare mode. I think it captures the sort of difficulty you would get from a blizzard made brutal+ which is the key. I rarely find that I need to "cheese" and there isn't too big of a "puzzle" element to it. Most of the time the mission plays out like if I was 5 and playing for the first time I would imagine a brutal mission to play out. I unlock a unit or ability or realize the central gimmick and that thing is then key to beating the mission, there's tons of stuff to kill and I need to play well but I don't need to "find" a solution, rather the solution is mostly obvious just matter of good strategy and good micro. Sure sometimes you need to reload if you are out of position for a scripted attack or something but it's not like you need to bang your head against the wall trying to find some hidden trick to it all, it's just dealing with attack waves and finding good opportunities to attack.>>2438156Ultas absolutely shred marines. Play the game a bit and don't build Marauders or Ghosts and see how marines actually fair against an ultralisk.
>>2437885Not only you can't grasp the sarcasm there, but also can't grasp the fact that those are actually good ideas because SC1 is objectively better designed than SC2
>>2438232>See how a T1 unit fares against a T3+ unit hurrrThe fact that there's still doubts about them handling Ultralisks show that Marines are OP and with a little help can still obliterate units 6 times their cost + plus investment + tip
ultras would live up to their name if they actually completed the unit and not gave up on its abilitiesand no it wouldn't be op since they can't hit air units
>>2438333They should bring that back just for the fuck of it. It would settle all of the issues with push priority, walking over other units, movement speed, etc.
>>2438145The complaint is not that the mod is too hard. The complaint is about the ways in which it is hard, that do not favor skill at starcraft, but instead favor trial and error battling against RNG and abusing bugs/speedrun autism. And rather vindictively going out of it's way to prevent the player from ever having an efficient fight and punishing the player for making progress.Your post makes it sound like you didn't really play the mods.
>>2438364They should just give every race a bunch of OP bullshit and wash their hands of the game
>>2416469https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IQwGg1hwtX0https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IQwGg1hwtX0https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IQwGg1hwtX0
>>2438542Wrong thread and also world eaters are fags
>>2438428they did, it's called HotS
>>2438552only zerg got op things in hots
Just make Inject Larva an autocast god dammit blizzard wtf bro just do it it's right there do it it's not an option it's a hassle its stupid its boring i hate it i hate it i hate it
lairs and hives should make more larva so there's a reason to make them besides just having one
can we all agree that swarm host was the moment the game basically died?
>>2438811the game died when it was designed as an "esport" instead of being a fun game
>>2438860so it died before it was conceived? but it had millions of players at the peak of WoL....
>>2438902That was before it became common knowledge that the blizzard of old was dead (it died when TBC launched)
>post patch pvt ladder winrate 50%>post patch pvz ladder winrate 33%Protoss got nerfed to shit but I guess you gotta acknowledge that a-moving zealots and archons is so fucking easy only pro terrans like Clem can really have the 300 apm to work around it.
>>2439264what's the tvz winrate
>>2416469>>2439264Funny how Zerg has always been the easiest race and while at the same time pretending it 'requires so much micro'. At least now they get to mirror as much as they want to equally 'skilled' opponents.
>>2439298dumb tossnigger
>>2438554Zerg has nearly always been overtuned in one way or another.
>>2438427Multitask, make more units, micro well, prepare a strategy to contest objectives. Sometimes you get hit by attacks you don't expect and then you have to reload a save to have a better setup but it really isn't that challenging.What the hell do you think "skill at starcraft" is if not speed and multitasking?I am now on the penultimate mission before Korhal with the cringekino Narud lazer fight, meaning I've almost completed the entirety of HotS nightmare and I am NOT good at this game. I've no clue what you mean by "bug abuse" or "speedrun autism" - this is a real time strategy game, the faster you do things the more things you have, the speed at which you can set up a proper unit composition and multitask your defense/macro is the primary metric of skill.
>>2438811Its so funny to me that as a kid I looked at the cardboard cutout advertisement for HotS in the vidya store and thought "that's supposed to be a hydralisk and an ultralist? This fucking sucks, the SC1 ones looked way cooler" and so I missed out on starcraft 2 entirely, I only picked it up in 2018 in the end.Hilarious to think that playing SC2 would've probably completely changed my entire life's trajectory - and it all depended on nu-blizz making the ugliest fucking designs known to man for the zerg units
>>2439298>t. retard
Reading this thread makes me envy that I didn't stick to being an RTS gigachad and instead became a Dotard 2 degenerate retard. Fuck me.
How is 4v4 in SC2 right now, are there still players? Had a lot fun in WoL
>>2440053The old meta just got obliterated. There's no better time to hop in than now.
Zerg nerfed AGAIN holy fucking shit manWe get 300 hatcheries, 175 queens AND 10 second larva. And now ravager biles no longer one shot force fields. It's so fucking ASS I HATE THESE FUCKS WHO CANT SHUT UP. Zerg has always been the weakest
>NOOOO NOW WE'LL ONLY WIN 99% OF TOURNAMENTS THIS IS LITERAL ZERG GENOCIDE!!!!!!
>>2440614>zerg should be balanced around serral
>>2440627>the game should be balanced around zergs who can't play the gameZergs just want to have buffs even as they win tournaments.>>2440610Case in point. Everyone and their dog was playing zerg because it was really powerful, AND ZERGS STILL WHINE ABOUT IT.
>>2440654yes it was the zergs that whined about it to be nerfed1 actual buff in fucking years and you come out of the woodwork to bitch about itnot about the ghost that is op again, not about mules that are still unfair, not about skytoss that is still unbeatable after all this time unless you are in top10nooo you can't have hydralisk at hatchery tech, how are we supposed to fuck your ass if you have any antiair that can actually movenoo you can't have ultralisk be actually goodnoo you can't have autocast on queen heal like we do on battery and medvacfuck uthermal and the rest of the twats that clickbaited with muh zerg op and fuck you
>zergtranny having a melty because he can't get past gold 2 despite playing the most OP racelol
>>2440667disingenuous cunt
>>2440610I'm on the fence with the ravager thing, I kinda conceptually dislike the change because it's more of an anti quality of life change. Before you hit and the force field was gone and in lot of cases where you aren't quite as fast with the spell even 50% does exactly that but if you are fast it still leaves the forcefield with a few seconds of life left. Practically it's still worth to hit them but it feels real bad to hit a bile and then walk forwards and still bonk to the field for a second before it vanishes. I think however that this is an interesting change because of the gas change, going down to 2000 gas is -20% gas available on the map (or -10% from 12 worker start) which is pretty major and is going to hit gas heavy units like Sentry, Archon and even Ravagers quite a bit.
>>2440610just give up, tossniggers will whine the game into the grave
>>2440856Meanwhile ITT and all over reddit zergs are whining even as zerg is OP and everyone plays zerg. I am convinced many zergs believe hitting injects makes them top tier. Topkek
>>2440930>even as zerg is OP and everyone plays zerg??? most of the zergs quit the game over the last like 5+ years of protoss bullshit
>>2422222Quints of truth.
>>2440930>zerg is OP and everyone plays zerg
>>2440856The game has been dead for like 7 years, retard
>>2441071I dunno ladder seems to have pretty dam healthy amount of players. I think SC2 is still the most played RTS game by quite a margin unless some obscure chinese game has millions of players but no one has ever heard off it in the west. The game is still as good as it ever was, feels good to play and even manages to hold up pretty well visually thanks to blizzard quality in stylizing the game.
is this world there are artosises and chad protoss apes. don't be an artosis.
/ourgirl/ is back?
>>2440610I don't like the larva nerf imo people way overblow its impact on the game but the sentry buff seems like a cool idea.
>>2441706Zerg was super busted with the larva, they needed to tone that down to something more sane.
>>2441710We don't really know that because the patch was up for only like 5 days.
>>2441714Anyone with a brain could use some basic math and tell you it was a horrible idea.
>>2441714I think Zerg win rate spiking to like 75% kinda told the whole story to Blizzard in like 2 days.
>>2441716Anyone with a brain can see you're just a salty patchtoss so cope and seethe, faggot.
>>2441718Toss mmr was inflated last patch so it doesn't mean anything it's just a healthy correction.
god i despise tossniggers for ruining this game
>>2441719>>2441720>>2441722How's Gold 2 treating you, zergtrannies?
>>2441723More like Masters 2 and it's great, thank you.
>>2441706>>2441710they should had buffed chronobuster and gave terran command center reactor instead(and also nerfed mule)
>>2441740>gave terran command center reactorThat would be pretty fucking wild lmao.
>>2441742and fun right? as fun as zerg being swarmy would be and protoss being faggotsjust remove the shitty unfair mule and give the terrans reactors
>>2441743I'd be curious to see how it impacts the game for sure. I bet terrans would hate the idea though.
>>2441747they wouldn't because it's as op as zerg with 8-9 second larva spawn rate and you can just test somewhat how fast you can reach 22 workers in the campaign with that bonus thingyif they'd whinge they'd only do it until they played it 2 or 3 games then they'd love it
>>2441748I don't know about that man. T would need to spend 50 gas just to get an addon they can't swap with other buildings to get more production. So ultimately they have to delay their tech and their income is lower on the same base count because they don't have mules anymore. I can imagine the whining already.
>>2441743"more workers" isn't really all that fun. Fun of the command center comes from the tradeoff between the economy now, information now or holding energy to scan later for DT's and such. It's the same trade off with larva and chronoboost. P and Z already have a "more workers" bonus and it doesn't make sense to give the same bonus to the third race too.>>2441747It would be a nerf so ye
>>2441748>it's as op as zerg with 8-9 second larva spawn rateIt's literally not.Nothing is as OP as increasing zerg larva spawn rate because zerg larva spawn rate affects literally every unit they make If they increase the larva spawn rate then the build time of all zerg units should be made longer too
>>2441718That was a healthy correction, zerg players are actually THAT good.
>[my race] does wellWe're just better players>[my race] does badUnbalanced patchsimple as
>>2441847true for everyone except tossbabs
>>2442086seething gold 2 zergtranny
>>2442089would you be able to reach grandmaster on zerg even for a while? i could on protoss, just below it on terran and stuck at diamond-master on zergyou can be a meme all you want but the truth is protoss IS the easiest and zerg the hardest
>>2442100its emblematic of the problems with the welfare statea tossnigger gets his gibs for so long that he starts to think he earned them
>>2442100Zerg is the most OP race though (in both Starcrafts)?Terran is the hardest race to play (in both Starcrafts)
>>2442113what's your rank with zerg compared with othersquite high since it had a huge unfair advantage before the hotfix i assume
>>2442113Stop trying to ragebait people already.
I have over 1000 games as Zerg at Diamond 2 and when I picked up protoss I surpassed my zerg MMR in just 150 games, it's hilarious. Admittedly, this was back when the battery overcharge with the OP void ray was a thing.You don't need to do anything as protoss either, just sit on your ass at home massing a deathball and a-clicking a warp-in of zealots into their fringe base when there's an engagement.
>>2442255Funny, I had a similar thing. I had over 10000 games as Terran at Diamond 1 and when I picked up zerg I surpassed my terran MMR in just 140 games, it's hilarious. Admittedly, this was back when the ghost was 2 supply. You don't need to do anything as zerg either, just sit on your ass at home expanding and droning up and then a-click the swarm into their base when there's an engagement.
>>2442100>believe me this totally not made up story proves beyond a shadow of a doubt I am right and you are wrongkek
archons should be able to merge with each other infinitely
>>2442268>>2442269You would've had a leg to stand on with this if what the guy above said wasn't so easy to demonstrate and replicate on previous patch. My example is even worse than his because I was masters with zerg and it took me 30 games with protoss to get higher mmr than my zerg and I also know 2 people who had the same experience one of them as zerg and the other as terran.
>>2442313If your anecdote is that you get better MMR as some other race than Zerg, it doesn't mean Zerg is worse than the others, it just means you suck at Zerg. Having more games at the race you suck at isn't a sign of some kind of regined skill, it's a sign that you have internalized bad habits and refuse to adapt.
>>2442315Not others, only protoss. And if everyone is somehow just naturally better at protoss then it proves the point that protoss is just easier to play than others.
>>2442318>IfYes yes, big if true
>>2442321Glad we agree tossniggers deserved some nerfs then.
>>2442324You know you might be able to get out of Gold if you spent half as much time practising your zerg as you did seething about protoss.
>>2442327As I said before, I'm in Masters. I would've told you to go back to diamond like the brainless subhuman you are but since your insult of choice is gold you're probably already there.
>>2442329You are in "Masters" I am high GM btw and zerg is the easiest by far.
>>2442340So you're not a D1 terran anymore? Making shit up doesn't work when you're lying about things that are this obvious to everyone else you disingenuous fucking nigger.
>>2442347>low IQ zerg abuser confused by the idea multiple people on a boardThat tracks.
everyone who doesn't play terran is a race traitor and needs to be excommunicated from this thread
Is it just me or is cannon rush really fucking bad this patch? Is this why I see it so rarely?
>next ASL is being tilted to favour Protoss
New player here, should I go for BW or SC2? I really like that BW doesn’t get balancing patches but game looks very dead, is SC2 just as fun?
>>2442732BW is pretty active, is better balanced, is more fun, and as you said doesn't get balanced outside of the map pool changing every 6 months or so
>>2442732Brood War is the RTS equivalent of the south park wow episode where after no lifing for weeks in the tutorial area to max level, only then they are allowed to finally play the game.
why does no build work anymore as zerg? i tried all my old builds copied from bly that got me to diamond by making extra workers and pretending it's still 12 start and they don't work... except baneling busts, the roach rush doesn't work, neither does the ravager rush, or the muta or the swarm hosti tried altering the timings and drone count a bit and they still didn't work, what the fuck is this shit
>>2443114>pretending it's still 12 startMaybe that's the problem? When did you hit exactly?
>>2443123at first i went to 12 workers and an overlord and continued the same as if the patch wasn't there with his builds and lost almost all timesthen i started at 10 8 14, by the time my ravagers or proxied roaches reached protoss or terran base they already had shit ready even if it wasn't scoutedthis happened before the patch too but i had maybe half the games where it worked especially the proxy roach, now it doesnt work on 70-90% of games
>>2442268You're a complete retardAll of us can click on Protoss and hit play and get into a ladder match and judge how mechanically difficult it is. Everybody knows toss is easymode both in SC1 and SC2, if you disagree that's because you don't actually play the game - so don't fucking post>>2442315>as some other race than Zergdisingenuous retard, I played terran too and I didn't immediately overtake my zerg MMR while freestyling it unlike with Protoss. Protoss has units that have longer build times, higher durability and less micro potential, it's not difficult to understand why protoss is significantly simpler to play than T or Z
>>2443459uh oh, gold 2 zergtranny melty
Help me understand TvPI was high masters 10 years ago in HOTS and started playing again recently. TvT and TvZ seem logical enough from my memory but TvP I have no idea what to do. Whenever I try to push early I get clapped and when I try to turtle I get clapped even harder
>>2443538The gist of it is the protos which has the edge in map control can contain the Terran in 3/4 bases long enough to whittle them down until they either mine out or make a blunder. For the terran it's if you can break the contain and keep expanding or if you can execute enough harassment or a strong enough attack to not be contained.
>>2438427Hey mate, I just beat the final mission of HOTS and I came back here to call you a shitterThis mod was NOT that tough and you're just bad at the game - albeit the final mission was an absolute slog, fuck the guy who made it.
>>2443459Kek, the zerg bronze players is spouting his nonsense again. You shit is retarded, but go ahead and seethe moar
Serral-sama, I kneel.
you now remember stormgate
>>2444327I'm D2 with my zerg and M3 with toss, despite having more that twice as many games with Z, so fuck off
>Korean ladder can't even fill all 200 GM slots anymoreSo this is how the game dies.
>>2447874>Serral literally forced the gooks into playing defiler lurker timings for the rest of their careersKek what a GOAT
>>2447974I thank him and the Blizzard intern for making Zerg even more OP for adding more players to the superior game.
>>2447982Zerg wins every tournament in BW too The more the game gets solved the more zerg wins in BW so you can stop crying about that part too. Even Flash had his final hurrah and ended up losing to a zerg
>>2447986I like how you didn't even try to argue against BW being the superior game.
>>2447987I like how you didn't even try to argue how BW is the superior game either?How is BW the superior game?
>>2447989>How is BW the superior game?It doesn't have a cutscene in it where Infested Stukov talks about how an ancient shapeshifter named Naruud is trying to resurrect his dead god master
>>2448070but it does...
>>2448099No it doesn't.It has Duran laughing at Zeratul because he had tubes of hybrids all around the sector
>storyfags
>>2443459Protoss is easy but so is Zerg. Injecting and spreading creep is not hard lmao. My APM with Zerg is higher but it doesn’t feel like it whatsoever. And with Zerg you can just play every matchup more or less the same early game, which is great with the 8-worker start where scouting is high opportunity cost. And responding to weird builds or adapting your strategy is the easiest with Zerg of all three races. Terran is the hardest race for sure, and I also find it the least fun, so its the only race I don’t play. Protoss and Zerg are equally easy for different reasons. I’d say if you’re above gold league then Zerg is for sure easier to win with than Protoss
>>2448441I think people say Zerg is hard because their lategame relies entirely on spellcasters and people below masters can't use them for shit.That said, you can probably Zerg your way to GM with roach rushes whereas sitting on your ass massing skytoss will get you killed before you get there.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZkEsqx7cdTYkek
>>2448904>whereas sitting on your ass massing skytoss will get you killed before you get there>tossniggers actually think this shityou "people" are unbelievable
>>2448916I'm reminded of a quote from a Day9 Daily>"How do I stop an opponent with 6 carriers?">Why did you let him get 6 carriers to begin with?
>>2448920maybe because blizz handed them the skill battery making them impervious to any kind of early aggression and letting them greed to 3 base skytoss instantly
>>2448921Sounds like a skill issue on your part, ngl.
>>2448922Do you even play the game or are you just making retarded posts about it?
>>2448928Have you gotten out of Gold 2 yet?
Skytoss isn't that oppressive right now but I still hate Classic for being the guy who always goes skytoss
>>2448922NTA but as someone who actually played the game during the voidray+skill battery meta I think it was atrocious and although Protoss is still significantly easier to play than T or Z, the skill gap was the worst during that time.With Z you had to rush them early and you knew what they were going for every time so it always worked. It was always a stargate opener into voidray, then they either turtle on 3base with battery overcharge or hit with glaives early. As Z you'd have to roach rush them every game which was boring as shit, you'd do the same speedroach timing every single fucking game because you knew you'd lose if the game went long, it was boring as fuck. German Taxi was the only other build that was kind of fun against it, if you know, you know.It was infuriating with terran as well. Every fucking game was some drooling retard chronoboosting void rays out of a proxy stargate and camping your base with 5 batteries, abusing the high ground. You'd have to go cyclone every time and all they had to do was make one void ray every half a minute and camp your base, by the time you broke out you were behind economically so you had to make cyclones then sit on your ass defending all game. It was ATROCIOUS.You would know this, had you actually played the game. Now shut the fuck up
>>2449419see>>2448922
>>2448985Unlike you, yes. When was the last time you played a ladder game?
>>2449422Hey faggot, you're on a discussion board, if you disagree then tell me why, or are you so vapid that all you can do is spam zero-effort pseudo-replies?
>>2417105>medicavs picking up sieged siege tankshe doesn't know
>Protoss has been so thoroughly nerfed for no reason Clem is back to playing Terran vs Terran
>>2449883>no reasonUHHHHH GOLD 2 WAS LITERALLY UNPLAYABLE AS ZERG BEFORE THIS PATCH!!!!!!
so did you guys found the load all transport bug fun?
What does the changeling change mean? Contagious?
play the game and find out
>>2449922if there are 2 or more shoulder to shoulder squatting in your base, you only need to click 1 and they all blow up
>>2449939I suppose spamming them felt abusable in ranked.
Solar's opinion on the current balance.
>>2450280jergbabs have never not been crying, even at the height of their fraudulent dominance
>>2435591Broodling is avoidable as it is a projectile.You don't see SC1 zergs use it on anything but immobile Siege Tanks.Meanwhile, Steady Targetting is used on anything that is not a zergling.
>>2442858I might give up on BW>bad support for offline practice>players are miles ahead even in beginner lobbies>30 years to fill a lobby, game ends in 5 mins to a cheese rush>they know you are new and will rush you anywaysits too much work to get started on, i aint 15 years anymore
>>2450280KWAB, blaming balance when he loses to clem of all people
>>2450301>You don't see SC1 zergs use it on anything but immobile Siege Tanks.It's just that this is the most cost-efficient target most of the time. What else are you going to target, battlecruisers? Medics? Vultures?
>>2450495imagine the amount of work in 2002 when nobody figured out muta micro yet. Or anything really
>>2450689The question is not if you should target vultures, but if you even can, considering their size and speed as well as the size and speed of the Broodling projectile.The chain of discussion was about unavoidable pure damage from spellcasters.
>>2450691sure but its 2026 and we are playing with nerds stuck in 2002.
>HonMonO quit and switched to AoE2bros.... sc2 is really over...
>>2450864literally who?
>>2436370>bugfix a bottom tier unit>now its a toptier unitkekaroo
>guy named Fulgormortem always makes 1v1 rooms of the same map that you see every night in the lobby list for hours at a time>it’s actually a hack map where the player in slot 1 gets a stream of free min & gas until they have like 1 million or something of both and it keeps on going>dude is shitting out production and units nonstop from the get go and never runs out of resources>the fag has to literally disguise a modified 1v1 map (it has no mod extensions so you wouldn’t know unless you looked at the details & reviews) altered drastically in his favor in get 1v1 wins against unassuming playersThis is some pathetic shit. Why does SC2 have so many of these hack maps with blatant cheat modules? You never saw stuff like this in WC3 or even SC1/BW, the latter which had a thriving competitive scene and was played competitively by even regular players for the longest time.
