>>2418680
Why would you think SC1 is promoting diversity? The Zerg dindu nuffin in the sequal as a retcon. In full 90's glory the Zerg Overmid is a genuinely evil bastard.

>>2418680
>why are people like this?

Starcraft1
There is a clear villain in the overall story and Tassadar dies at the end to finish the job.

Stracraft2
Kerrigan is a past female villain from SC1, gets redeemed completely and everything bad forgotten and BECOMES A LITERAL COSMIC GOD BY THE END.

Other problems:
- One character willingly sacrifices his life for something he believed in, the other character becomes a god as compensation for all the bad things that were done to her.

- SC2 has no clear villain faction like the Zerg was in SC1. And people are tired of the trope where factions are supposed to fight each other but every time there is a sudden greater threat so they need to stop fighting and band together. Also this removes the agency and relevance from all the factions as they are :
1) too weak on their own and thus their significance is diminished
2) stupid for not seeing the obvious need to band together and they need main characters to tell them
3) unable to achieve relative peace among themselves after their worked together successfully and defeated the greater threat and just revert to the previous status quo of just fighting with each other
4) since the plot reverts to the previous status quo, factions never learning the obvious lessons also makes the all story events meaningless since the world is technically back at the starting line again (until the next episode)

I've been replaying the SC2 campaigns and they are pretty annoying with their writing. There's always an evil version of a faction to fight. You killed all those Protoss, but it's ok, don't feel bad because they were evil Protoss enslaving other Protoss. They started this shit in WC3, but at least the Undead were bastards throughout. I would have preferred if the orcs or night elves were as well instead of the 3 all working together. But in SC2 it's just friendship all over.

The main problem is combined narrative campaigns. This will always be the inferior way to do RTS campaigns because you either have a main character that jumps between factions or all the factions just team up by the end. The correct way is to have a separate story for each faction where your faction is the winner at the end and the other ones lose. If you want a sequel, you just pick a faction's ending and make that canon.

>>2418803
>Zerg Overmid is a genuinely evil bastard
The Overmind did its own thing. Why do you need to frame it as evil like a dumbass?
Saying or implying that OG Overmind was great due to it being evil is the dumbest thing.

>>2418962
He was a great villain

>>2418976
>He was a great villain
True, but it was nothing to do with "evilness" or whatever. Zergs had their goal, each Terran faction had their goals and so did Protoss tribes. And then they clashed with each other. The end. 10/10 KINO. Almost no stupid bullshit (except the scene in OP). If you REALLY, REALLY have to pick one, the most ruthless and "evil" faction in SC universe were OG Protoss... which are so marvelized by the LotV it's funny to see.

>>2418680
>>2418803
The Terran Conferacy was 10,000 times more interesting than the Dominion and you can't change my mind.

>>2418680
>we must embrace diversity
i don't think that marxist politics were ever at all a subject in starcraft. it's just a stupid sci-fi game

>>2419297
your mother is stupid

>>2419331
your thread is trash and i will not be bumping it
good day

>>2419333
your mom is trash

>>2418962
>>2419162
The game manual frames the Zerg that way. Constantly emphasizing their malice or cruel sadism with the Zerg units and explaining that the entire nature of the Zerg is an extension of the Overmind's own will.

The only part you could consider to be neutral with the pre-retcon Overmind is the ambition to hunt down the Protoss and that all of its galactic conquest was preparation for that sole goal.

Sc1 was fucked from the start by constantly emphasizing Kerrigan in the Zerg campaign instead of having the player play as genuinely evil and alien conquerors, instead we are supposed to give a fuck about this human turned monster. Yawn.

There's no confidence in the player. Destroying everything the good guys have built would be genuinely fun. Why can't we be a lieutenant for the overmind? Why does he need to die? The rot began here

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>>2418680
>cooperates with the Zerg and the terrans to defeat a common enemy
This isn't the problem. It's that the only way to defeat Amon is for all the Daelaam to get neural circumcision (desperate but reasonable), and then they choose to completely abandon the Khala instead of preserving it for future generations of Daelaam (despite it's pseudo-hivemind that also acts as a cultural archive for them). Then later they also all abolish their entire caste system at the end because a neckbeard(toenail?) IT support guy had to fight. If LotV came out five years later it would've also ended with Artanis abolishing the title of Heirarch and replacing it with a Protoss Council.
This is gay because I like my aliens to be alien, I like when there are major societal rifts between different groups because of differences in opinion on weird shit, like being a part of a subconscious hivemind, learning the reason why they have these opinions, etc. Even when it's done in a cartoonish way with the Tal'darim it's still at least entertaining. Yellow Protoss turning into vaguely western and bland space elves is thereby pretty gay. However, that's definitely not my biggest issue with SC2 and I doubt we're ever getting a SC3 to explore these ideas further so it really doesn't matter.
One last thing I will give this shit though is that it's not out of character, and not just for the reasons you give. For what it's worth SC1 did end with almost all of the Judicators being killed along with the rest of the Daelaam leadership after the loss of Aiur. Massive social upheavals in cataclysmic events like that aren't weird and were observed throughout SC1. I just think ditching your society's massive psychic library where you can check out grandpa's memories at any time even after Space Satan was defeated by the embodiment of Metzen's troubled marriage in the name of progress is gay.

>>2418680
I don't think there ever was an argument more made up and artificial than this
just make a normal starcraft 1 thread, the other one hit bump limit long ago anyway

>>2418680
>>>/pol/b8

>>2418680
>Artanis breaks away from tradition and cooperates with the Zerg and the terrans to defeat a common enemy
>NOOOOO FUCKING SJWs RUINED MY GAME FUCK DIVERSITY
I've never heard anybody make this criticism of SC2, not even the most retarded chuds

SC2's story is bad because it's literally "an ancient evil has returned" and "the chosen one must stop it"

>>2419744
then you clearly weren't on 4chan back in 2015

>>2419778
You weren’t too until Zion Don came into power

>>2419864
I've been here since 08 nigger

>>2419744
>SC2's story is bad because it's literally "an ancient evil has returned" and "the chosen one must stop it"
There's nothing inherently wrong it.
You can make a good "ancient evil has returned and chosen one must stop it story".
The problem is that they didn't.
It didn't make sense, was stupid and contradicted the previous games.
It's not like OG SC story was immaculate either, but at the very least it was sincere and whoever wrote it was trying.

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>>2419778
The ending sucks because of starchild Kerrigan.

>>2419778
and you liked those 2015 conversations so much, you decided to revisit them with your wonderful thread? thanks a lot

Peak Starcraft was the video for the second Terran mission
"Sarge, I think you just ran over some poor feller's dog"
"That's a zergling, a smaller type of zerg"
I never played SC2 so I never had to worry about what dumb shit they did with the series. Feels good man.

>>2420355
you're welcome

>>2420365
I LOVE YOU SARGE

>>2420239
Wings of Liberty was good but the plot went to shit really fast when Kerrigan started getting Dragonball Z powers.

Why did this sort of “enemy factions unite against the true evil” thing work in WC3 but not SC2? I don’t disagree with that, but let me hear your takes.

>>2419206
It was. Dominion is just mengsk mengsk mengsk. Very one dimensional and predictable. Confederacy was just that - a confederacy of space hicks, with a mean old racist general at the head of its military. Based

>>2422813
Humans, insular purple humans and green rowdy humans band together to fight against the undead demons from hell

Compare with weird aliens without faces and humans and distilled evil corpse eater aliens banding together.

>>2422813
WC3 is a high fantasy setting with many intelligent races, enemy factions uniting to fight against true evil is a somewhat common trope.
SC2 is a science fiction setting with xenophobic and condescending protoss, the niggery and senseless zerg, and the xenophobic and greedy terrans
It doesn't make sense and it would take a space god void lord world of warcraft raid boss to make it into a warcraft situation where the factions can really unite.
At least in Brood War the writing made sense because the Overmind was heavily drugged

>>2423015
the overmind was dead in brood war cause tassadar allahu akbar'd it and then in sc2 they became best buds

>>2418680
Starcraft 2 retconned the Xel'Naga. They went feom precursers that die to the Zerg, which makes the Zerg a threat, to space squids that died cus one of their own genocided them. Also making people pay for 3 bad missions to end the franchise sits bad for everyone.

>>2423526
UED drugged the nascent baby overmind in the last terran mission of brood war campaign. The remaining sc1 cerebrates began to form it in an attempt to get back to business without kerrigan. Then kerrigan-puppeted raszagal told zeratul to kill the new baby overmind and he actually did it lmao what a madman

>>2418809
how would Zerg fans feel that they are the villain and the story made it so it was kept that way? realistically most of them might not really care, but maybe there are some Zerg players who appreciate the writing somewhat. (I don't really care, I'm a Terran fan and it's hard to really say anything specific about SC2's writing)

>>2425750
My post is not about the fandom, it is about the story setting's structure and the relevance of a faction in it.

Fandoms usually develop organically from how the story portrays the characters/factions in the first place. Compelling villains often easily grow just as great of a fanbase as heroes sometimes even greater.

Yes, some fans might want the zerg to be heroes (or anti-heroes), this can lead to the eternal debate on "Who was right?" or "which character/faction's actions are justified on what grounds" etc. which never because morality is too complicated.

But being a villain does not limit a character/faction's relevance or popularity in fact it often bolsters it provided that it is a compelling enough character/faction.

>>2420365
>the video for the second Terran mission
>not "Thank God for cold fusion!"

>>2420365
kerrigan and duran have a dbz battle, it's way betterer and cooler than any of those dumb boring sc1 cutscenes

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>>2419778
>>>2418680
at least they had an refugee redpill

>>2418803
The Overmind was also a stupidly competent villain who also was a benevolent, even fatherly figure to both the Cerebrates and the Zerg in general (like how he gets happy when the player Cerebrate succeeds in his tasks and commence on his growth, or how he's livid over what happened to Zasz and calls his slaying by Zeratul downright murder).
>>2425971
That was horribly stupid, had no place in StarCraft and you have shit taste.

>>2422813
Because the Zerg are a literal swarm of sadistic murder bugs that are a scourge on the galaxy.
Terrans are space undesirables that Earth kicked out for not being genetically pure and not fitting into its perfect socialist order.
Protoss are dogmatic, religious psychic space barbarians.
All of the factions are xenophobes to each other, but Terrans take the cake since they have absolute loathing towards the Zerg and even more limited trust towards the Protoss than the Protoss have towards Terrans (glassing the Sara system where both Chau-Sara and Mar-Sara were was one of the reasons here even though there were Zerg on those planets...and yet they didn't come and at least tried to help until Tassadar was fed up with glassing planets by orders of the Conclave and wanted to be a good guy instead).

>>2425858
I myself wouldn't be against a Zerg Brood that is full-blown anti-hero led by someone who would encompass this (even then there should something like resisting the more destructive Zerg urges), but it should be only this. A single Brood. The Zerg should always be the evil bastard race.
Hell, their design and even their biology is pure sadism. The friggin Hydralisk and Defiler lores are proof of it.

>>2423534
The Xel'Naga were precursors to Protoss and Zerg.
They also retconned them from super scientists to literal void gods.
I seriously hate what Blizzard did with the setting and characters.
And I'm not the only one.
The one thing that could save StarCraft now is retconning StarCraft 2. Either it never happened or use the XCOM2 plot point in order to retcon it.

>>2418680
Any storyline so lazy as to involve gods and fate is a bad one.

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>>2429379

>>2429549
don't worry about him he just hates chris metzen

>>2418680
Tassadar was bringing his people together. The overmind is evil and was suppose to be evil.

I hated when they tried giving zerg some redemption arc in Starcraft 2. Its okay to have an Evil fucked up race. Kerrigan should of died after killing like all of Raynors friends.

>>2418680
Because Starcraft 2 makes Starcraft 1s ending trivial. The whole point of the split between the High and Dark Templar is because the Dark Templar were afraid that the High Templar would lose their personality and would be susceptible to being influenced by stronger minds which the original game pointed out that both ways of life were viable and that they are draw backs to both but neither are inherently bad. The fact that the fears of the Dark Templar became reality trivializes the ending for SC1 by showing that 1 culture is inherently faulty.

Doesn't matter if both games have the same message. How that message is told matters. One is just a shittier version of the other.

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>>2425858
>>2429035
Stukov should've been the SC2 Zerg protagonist.

>>2430541
>be me
>play sc1
>don't play sc2
>no problem
Feels good man

>>2430605
Yep. And be a unique hybrid faction with access to a number of infested variants of Terran units like he does in Co-op Commanders mode.
>>2429549
>>2429557
In case of SC2 it IS lazy and even stupid.
StarCraft was known for its dark, gritty atmosphere and setting. Blizzard turned it into full-blown sci-fantasy with SC2 and that's utterly loosing the point of the setting. That and the overall combined story is sadly shit.

>>2430849
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=v-eJezQV1cY
are you saying this doesn't fit the tone of starcraft?

>>2430849
your mom is lazy and stupid

>>2432395
No. Never did. StarCraft was more grounded while the sci-fantasy part was somewhere in the background covered by the dark and grit too. This and the mission that followed are pure sci-fantasy idiocy.
>>2432508
Your mom is my mom too.

>>2430360
Noo the evil is always somehow justified and there was an ancient prophecy unless it concerns humans and fascism then its always unequivocally bad

>>2419430
>The game manual frames the Zerg that way. Constantly emphasizing their malice or cruel sadism
It's an alien race that tries to assimilate all life. Whether it's le evil or not is redundant.
It's like saying that predator species are not virtuous pacifists or something. It's just dumb.
The only real pervy deviant zergs ever had was Kerigan.
Everyone else who was sentient and had major agency (Overmind + Cerebrates) was pretty chill.
Most conversations went like
>Go to that planet and wipe out everyone
Pretty level headed and without any of the: " and then we'll stab them, then skin them while listening to their screams".

>>2433249
There is the thing.
What kind of predator uses biological weaponry so damn powerful and harmful that can kill its own kin?
[[COUGH]] DEFILER [[COUGH]]
Not to mention Hydralisks massacre people far harder than other Zerg units.
But agree. The Cerebrates and Overmind were pretty chill.
And even helpful (Daggoth especially) and the Overmind was like a father to the Cerebrates.

>>2418934
Honestly I think BW did it best.

One story with one conclusion but you're jumping between factions and aiming to achieve their respective goals throughout. Though it did feel a bit retarded to go from enslaving the overmind to suddenly playing as zerg and starting the plot from a huge setback - or to finally conquer Aiur just to then switch teams to the pussy-whipped Protoss you've been fucking into the dirt for 5 missions.

>>2419430
I can't say I agree. The Zerg are an animal, they're not cruel or sadistic or evil, they have a purpose and they work towards it. They are single-minded killing machines

>>2423008
I find it extremely hilarious how SC2 characterizes Mengsk as an evil man but then the idiots making the sequel forgot that Korhal was nuked into a desert in SC1 so when they designed the new Korhal to be a giant utopian metropolis with unparalleled military power that can hold against the Zerg they forgot that it would inadvertently imply that he's an incredibly competent leader.

It's even more funny considering that on paper only 4 years had passed between Mengsk's defeat by Kerrigan at the end of BW and the start of WoL. You're telling me I'm supposed to hate this guy when he turned a radioactive desert into a regional superpower in just four years?

It's sad how little continuity exists between BW and WoL, I think the old games had a much cooler and grittier setting. The terrans were filthy, the zerg were terrifying and the protoss were ruthless. They stole the best things from all the scifi IPs and went with them, SC2 is such a boring, safe, uninspired piece of shit in comparison, especially HotS and LotV. Covert Ops was surprisingly good in comparison.

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While we are here can we take a moment to appreciate how retarded the Zerus retcon is? In BW the zerg are a parasite-esque organism that can devour genetic code to create a race of super-efficient killing machines, designed into their current form by the Xel-naga - whom they ultimately destroyed since they didn't know they had a hivemind. Zerus was a volcanic planet where the zerg organism originated.

Meanwhile in SC2:
>primal zerg are all permanently evolving
>but they are also just dumb animals who didn't even develop opposable thumbs and they don't even use tools or anything
>they all speak english for some reason
>also they can assimilate genetic code still but it happens individually to each creature somehow... but they still hatch from eggs... though none of them lay eggs or reproduce... except there's giant bug creatures that spawn them... but they can spawn anything from lings to ultras... but they're all supposed to be unique individually developed creatures
>also they have an ancient Spawning Pool ™ - an organ bio-engineered by the Zerg to hatch larvae in? Even though the primal zerg don't have larvae. Plus not one primal zerg used the ancient Spawning Pool ™ in a millenia to become giga-powerful despite that being their main schtick
>when you arrive on the planet it is full of utterly helpless prey animals like deer, crabs and giant porcupines - wouldn't these be all hunted and eaten in a day?
>if you kill them they don't just die but give Kerrigan Essence ™
What the fuck were they thinking
Bonus space magic:
>the Xel-naga weren't defeated because of their hubris but because one of them was le evil and created the overmind - also they are magic space gods now instead of an alien race
>but also the zerg are necessary for the defeat of The Dark One ™
>also that happened millenia ago and somehow the Zerg only actually clashed with the protoss recently even though their sole purpose was to wipe them out
>also there's