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>>2444531
I haven't played it for months but it seems like devs fucked something up again, because recent reviews are overwhelmingly negative.
And it's funny that despite everything BA still has more daily players than Warno.

Why the fuck did they drop the changes to the score system? It's back to the retarded gimmick of "build up tanks and ifvs and rush the point in the last two minutes of the phase".

>>2444662
i think it all comes down to eugen being braindead when it comes to marketing and advertising.

>>2445638
The tryhards were malding you could get max capture points by maintaining just a 1 zone advantage throughout the phase, but to me it seems the issue was more that they just made it tick from one extreme to another too fast in general rather than with the idea.
Admittedly the fact you don't have to do the initial rush to grab your 50% (even though people still generally do it because there's still an advantage to being the defender) was sort of a feature of BA the whole time, so I don't have that strong opinions one way or the other.

>>2445668
I think it come to fatigue, contemporany war games are almost inexistent, broken arrow is a rarity

The game is still fun. The fucking worst thing are the damn maps. The changes from the CTE should have gone mostly live, idk why they pulled a lot of them back

>>2445638
>"build up tanks and ifvs and rush the point in the last two minutes of the phase".
And how is that bad? If you couldn't defend the point then it's your fault.

>>2446091
The part of my post you quoted is why I think this score system is bad. I prefer how it's done in Eugen's games, where you have to constantly contend control of the VPs, and I thought the PTE made a good change.

>>2444662
Basically they stopped patching the main game for half a year in order to set up and run a Public Test Environment server to test a bunch of wide-reaching changes to the game's balance and design.

The PTE ran for 3 months straight with pretty much weekly patches and a good 40% of the playerbase playing it pretty much exclusively over the main branch.
At the end the devs announced they were ready to wind down the PTE and bring the successful changes live.
Then a week later they launched the first live patch in half a year

Exactly 2 PTE changes went live, except they changed one of them radically in a way that both ruins the change and breaks the game as a whole. This variation wasn't tested in the PTE, even though private internal testers had insisted it should be because it would be controversial.

All of the other PTE changes were dropped unceremoniously, even the ones that were overwhelmingly successful after 3 months of iterating. The rest of the patch was full of questionable or outright bad changes that should have also been tested on the PTE but weren't.

People are reasonably upset not just because of the false promise of porting over popular changes from the PTE, but also the fact that live balance had been effectively abandoned for half a year specifically for the sake of running this PTE, only for the whole concept to be abandoned and accomplish absolutely nothing.

It's now coming to light that the PTE was handled by a separate team from the live game's balance team in order to settle an internal argument over game direction. The lead designer had intended to use the PTE as a containment server for high ELO players and dissenting employees and let it run forever, but was forced to end the test because it got too popular and was splitting the playerbase too much. Then he just overruled the PTE team on all the changes he personally didn't like and made his own patch instead, because the success of the PTE hurt his ego.

>>2444531
Baltic is a mixed bag
>Boxer
14hp and low CE armour make it deceptively fragile but it's less bad now that it's 90pts.
>CV-90
Now that its price is lower it's pretty good. Hard counters other autocannon vehicles but the low CE armour makes it comically vulnerable to heli rockets
>Leo
What makes it good is the top-tier front armour/optics for a lower tier price. Unlike a sepv3 or an Armata, it isn't expensive enough to be a good bomber target but is still very hard to kill without a bomber.

What really lets the spec down is its terrible infantry, but most other US specs have strong inf so just pair it with Marine, Airborne or SoF and you're good. The problem is just that Baltic and Stryker have a lot of overlap in their roles as a spec, and Stryker is just plain stronger right now with all the buffs it got. Troopers with infinite javelin ammo are super oppressive and Baltic doesn't really have anything equally broken to offer.

>>2446130
>Then he just overruled the PTE team on all the changes he personally didn't like and made his own patch instead, because the success of the PTE hurt his ego.
if he was in the actual russian military, he would be a general

>>2444662
>recent reviews are overwhelmingly negative.
I think thats mostly because they ignored pte changes
people who played pte for the last few months get used to the changes and expected them to go live but they were scrapped

>>2446582
While the studio and most of the team are ziggers the lead designer/director in question is actually french. Though that still fits national stereotypes.
The communication issues have been going for a while now. In russian channels and interviews the team has been saying different things than had been the "official" stance but you wouldn't notice before unless you speak russian or follow the happenings very closely. This whole thing just made it spill out very publicly.
On top of that there's also the publisher who seems have no idea what either side of the team is doing and adds another layer of contradictory statements and community manager is an actual retard.

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Place your bets how they're going to fumble it this time.

>>2449804
No fucking way anything actually happens "before end of this month". Though the entire history of the game they have never done anything on time. They are gonna go
>muh summer holidays, not enough people in the office
and delay it until end of summer and it's gonna be jack shit anyway. Maybe they'll port over some of the smaller unit changes that didn't make it but FLX will sooner commit sudoku than admit his idea was dumb. They'll never revert a change.

>>2449804
this doesn't change that the person that made the retarded decision is still in charge and will just make another retarded decision in the future

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Aside from the fact the dev team are retarded Russians (And thus attract more of their kind including Chinese), the major issue is that nobody can really decide how the game should play. It really could have used like another 6 months to a year of solid play testing but people were so absolutely hyped to have Wargame: Modern they kind of got pushed to release. So not only was the game horrendously buggy, but it lacked some major coherence in systems and interactions.

This exacerbates the lack of content, because the devs spend so much time just cleaning up shitty code and trying to figure out how their game works instead of making new content.

It's still carried a fair bit by just being Wargame: Modern until Eugen finally cave. They already gave up on keeping WARNO strictly European theater.

>>2449994
The game was already delayed by like 2 years depending on how you count. A bit more wouldn't change that much.
A lot of the issues stem from the ass backwards game architecture anyway. The netcode is shit and completely unsuited to strategy games making it very sensitive to ping and like half the discourse about air/aa is caused by that. Second it makes it vulnerable to cheating, something otherwise unheard of in the genre outside of maybe map hacks because normal RTS games are deterministic and changing stats would just desync. This is also why there's no replays, absurd for a competitive game in current year.
They are supposedly working on it, but a year later it's still not here and it's not like they have much else to show for it.

>>2449994
More testing wouldn't help. Most of their gameplay assumptions were found to be wrong during the public and private testing that the game did get but the head dev just refused to listen. He treated the testing groups on discord like personal friend groups and took it personally when they started finding issues that didn't align with his narrative.

In the end, none of the long-established issues got fixed and they all made it to live despite repeated promises of a "balance pass" before release. Then they were gradually forced to cave on issues one at a time when the wider community got their hands on the game and shat on it for all these same problems, but larger foundational problems are too big to easily change.

Like for example, the scoring and eco systems reward sitting on your ass farming k/d with artillery for 90% of the phase while banking points, then spending all your banked points on a mass suicide push to secure your zone and nab a +1 cap lead right before the phase ends. K/d mattering for score means that the most efficient way to gain score is to field low-risk units like artillery that can score kills without risk of retaliation, and ground units that are vulnerable to artillery are only needed to take and hold ground. But ground score only being tallied at the end of the phase means there's no reason to use ground units to take and hold ground until the end of the phase, where you can hurl a wave of shit at the wall because you don't need to keep holding that ground after the score is tallied.

All of this was uncovered in the Beta tests. By the end of the beta, the meta revolved entirely around infiltrating recon being your only ground units, sighting targets for artillery and airstrikes until the end of the phase where you stacked up 8 Barbaris' and rolled over a point. The dev's conclusion from all this testing data was that their testers were just bad at the game.

>>2449894
>>2449808
>>2449804
I tired of these hohol shills here who hate the game because majority of devs are Russians lol

>>2449994
>>2450122
>>2450206
Despite all the shortcomings and problems we must recognize the fact that the game is a niche, have tons of potential and is the only one that portray modern war on the same complexity (if not more) than Wargame and WARNO, so i agree with many of the critics... but still i can't stop to notice that much of these are just strawman for polemicists like youtubers and other content creators, so nothing more than copes here, since majority of these problems you can find in WARNO and Red Dragon and if not worse too

>>2449994
>They already gave up on keeping WARNO strictly European theater.
You ever thought why they went for Latinx DLC instead of Asia? Because they're lazy faggots so they can reuse 99% of content and sell it again, as a new DLC. Warno is worse than Paradox, because despite everything, Paradox at least adds some new content and mechanics with their DLCs. Meanwhile DLCs in Warno contain a shit ton of copypasted units, a few new ones, one or two maps and some shitty campaign.

Meanwhile, what they're doing with Broken Arrow is closer to what we had with Wargame. Instead of those bullshit divisions, we are going to 2 specs with new units and then a whole nation, China.

>>2449994
I wonder how long will it take Eugen to add official nation decks as an option for unranked and comp-stomp and finally put the last nail in Wargame's coffin.
Maybe after they make one more Wargame DLC, that would be funny.

>>2450738
Never because it's against their DLC policy

>>2450610
>muh hohols
>when complaining about the retarded french lead
having all the time in the world as you wait in your gas line didn't help with calming down your seething did it you coping nigger

I dont know if thats been a thing since launch and I never noticed but the soundtrack ramping up before the phase shift is fucking amazing
gets you pumped up right when the action about to start

>>2450677
>DLC with maps
luckily, eugen isnt retarded enough to make that mistake after what they did in sd2. maps are released for free.

>>2450738
>nation decks
retarded and i hate it. i also miss the phase system from sdn44/sd2.

>>2446130
>The lead designer had intended to use the PTE as a containment server for high ELO players and dissenting employees and let it run forever,

let me guess, felix?

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>>2452914
That was introduced a few months after release

>>2453165
Of course it's him, that fucking cumstain. If god was real FLX would wake up to a kalibr smacking into his asshole and deleting him from this server

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Why is Broken Arrow so much more popular than WARNO?
WARNO is from the original Wargame developers.

>>2453523
its more fun
but honestly its probably better marketing, warno went early access and I found out about it like half a year later and I played all wargames, then they came out of EA and nobody gave a fuck
also the presentation is much better than warno, epic explosions, nukes and a banger soundtrack is enough for most people

>>2453523
People are sick of cold war gone hot. Modern day is just a way more popular era with lots of new ideas to explore.
I do think that if Eugen got their head out of their ass and actually made a present day game it would crush Broken Arrow because BA is such a massive piece of shit.

Games that are similar to Broken Arrow:
Wargame
Steel Division
Regiments
Warno
Last General
Battlespace Command

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Are you enjoying the Stryker? Refill your Stryker, you'll love this next Stryker.

>>2453599
Gee, Shayneeqius, how come yo momma let you have SEVEN Strykers?

>>2453523
Eugen is retarded

>>2450610
>rusniggers balance the rusniggers shit through the roof
>'muh hohol'
you only know about that slur because of the war, don't you?

>>2453523
Warno is stuck in this weird place of being ruined by realism autists that don't understand realism. There's the shell of a top-tier RTS there but the devs are too stubborn and french to evolve beyond the stale design of Steel Division 2 and settled into just catering to laymen tankies that fancy themselves military experts because they watch AIslop history on youtube.

The devs seemingly make "enough" selling monthly snake oil to these retards and just have 0 interest in expanding the appeal of the game beyond its small, insular cadre of global south LARPers.

>>2453523
Modern setting appeals more to normalfag nationalist military respecters. No matter how you slice it, even with warno pushing it well into alt-history 90s that's still 30 years ago and nobody remembers those things being new and cool(not that a bunch of that old shit isn't still in service but still). Cutting edge tech is just more interesting. Ziggers want armatas and Cletus his M1 FAPLGBTQBBQv4 he spent his entire enlistment powerwashing on some Fort Bumfucknowhere Base and fantasises about actually using (there seems to be a weirdly high amount of people who were in the military and made it a big part of their identity around this game).
In my personal opinion the balance issues and all the drama aside BA is just a more fun game to play. Warno is a bit TOO zoomed out, lacks weight and the whole engine is kinda outdated. BA "feels" like an actual modern game and not a budget autism spreadsheet simulator. The deckbuilding and the unit customisation is quite appealing.

Both are ran by retards that are really squandering the potential for the game to be any bigger than the tiny niche though so they are worth each other. Incidentally the french fuck lead designer flx everyone is complaining about in this thread is a former eugen dev, so it does have that provenance too. It turns out he wasn't actually the good one that left though and is just as bad as the company has always been.

https://store.steampowered.com/app/4232510/Broken_Arrow_Russian_Guard/

>>2454599
So to nobody's surprise it was Rosgvardiya. It was pretty much open secret even before release just as the fact US ones is going to be navy.
I see they are also announcing they are organising an official tournament, I expect that means they have spectator/replays now, because it would be pretty retarded to try to make it a thing otherwise.

>>2454602
Did you forget that they are retarded?

>>2454602
Unless the coming patch brings significant balance changes and isn't delayed as usual, the tourney will just be US something / SOF mirror match slop with elite inf blobs smashing into each other and the loser nuking the winner. At least in the PTE RU mirror match slop tourney all the deck tabs saw significant use, this will be even more boring

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>>2454602
>I expect that means they have spectator/replays now, because it would be pretty retarded to try to make it a thing otherwise.

>>2454602
The technical patch with basic replays was originally slotted for the end of this month, though they weren't clear on this stream if the replay patch and the apology balance patch they promised for damage control will be together or if they quietly delayed one for the other (which would definitely be the STB way to do things)
The original talk about the technical patch promised live spectator but no replays, so unless there has been a change of plans that they failed to mention you can expect widespread cheating in any prospective tourney.

If you had to be an infantrymen...
What weapon would you like to be given?

>>2455254
m1 garand

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>>2455254
TOS thermobaric rocket strapped to my back so I die instantly rather than bleeding to death 10 hours in some nameless field after an FPV drone spilled my guts out in a 10 meter radius

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Thursday balance patch

>>2457154
I'm ready to be angry all over again.

I really hope availability reductions come, and not just for inf. I'm so thoroughly sick of endless ATGM inf, endless Sep Trophies, endless special forces, and everything but the top-end squads and vehicles being mere filler to drain ammo and buy time. Armata and Sep v3 from 2 to 1, VDV Kornets and Weapon Squads from 4 to 3 or 2, RRC from 4 to 3 or 2, Koalitsiya and Iron Thunder from 3 to 2, any reduction at all PLEASE

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>>2457708
I played a match against a guy who had 6-8 infantry ATGM squads all perfectly spread out in different buildings. AT kornets and HE kornets from the SSO. All of them had infinite ammo because he had 45 point transports parked behind the buildings. One move in any direction with any kind of unit resulted in 3-6 Kornets flying towards me.

Nothing left to do at that point besides buy 2 mortars and 3 heavy tube artillery pieces.

>>2458191
The two tricks for dealing with ATGM spam are:
>spam smoke
ATGMs are crippled when their sightlines are cut so you can just put up a wall of smoke where the shots come from and run up on them with CQC
>just fuck off
Full-throated Moto/VDV ATGM spam eats up so much upkeep that it leaves the player with essentially no income left for offensive units and has no mobility of its own. You can just leave a skeleton force behind to watch your zone and send your tanks to help a teammate and grind kill score 2v1 somewhere else.

Don't get baited into the arty grind war because you're not going to trade positively into the MLRS spam. The ATGMs exist to be a tarpit that stalls you long enough to provide targets for the rocket artillery and bombers, so you counter it either by using smoke and running over the tarpit faster that their pre-aimed arty can react, or by bypassing the tarpit entirely and being productive somewhere else on the map.

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https://docs.google.com/document/d/1HUAfdZaquaUqnixVWVbRziqFOoZT075zgcT9IvAr140/preview?pli=1&pru=AAABn9KYal4*oCaAdtYRRygO_oD9wi_JMA&tab=t.0

The new patch might be We Are So Back

>>2459089
So it looks like the gamemode is coming to live after all, IFV/APC supply going back to how it was in PTE and reintroducing the unit changes that were missing for no reason.
FLX must be getting ready to hang himself.

>>2459230
This looks like total capitulation. All of the stupid untested changes from last patch have been reverted and as far as I can see, they just ported over the whole PTE verbatim.

My only gripe is that there are some PTE changes here that I didn't like, and some which I think were generally not well received that just got jammed in rather. But it's still a huge improvement over live and honestly, this kind of contemptuous half-assed capitulation is the best you could hope for after wounding the collective franco-russian ego.

>desynch match
>desynch match
>players failed to connect
>desynch match

i should have known better

its funny how BA's community copes by saying they have more players and Warno's community copes by saying they have better steam reviews as if both games aren't played by the exact same type of insufferable misanthropes.

My initial impression of the patch is good. It feels basically like PTE (which was good) but with a bunch of QoL and UI improvments that are very welcome. It doesn't really run any better for me compared to before but loading screens are a lot shorter. Not sure where faction balance will settle but it definitely feels less imbalanced than live was.

I don't like that some AA can still one shot planes. Abusing air is just like going to a casino, sometimes you make out like a bandit and sometimes you get fucked over and there isn't much you can do about it. The rest of the problems are all mostly problems that live had: Airborne got kind of fucked over for no good reason, cheap spammable mainlines like motopekhota and mech rifles are just way more cost effective than "elite" infantry, tanks kind of make IFVs obsolete, etc.
Though I'm having fun again so it's still a huge improvement over what we had before.

>Removed the chance for pilots to eject when an aircraft is destroyed.
>Pilots now spawn only after the aircraft is lost due to running out of fuel.
typical comp fags crying until the soul of the game is removed

>>2461017
The problem is that kill score and refund are tied together, so a pilot that drops directly over the enemy and instantly dies swings the kill score an extra 200 points against you with no counterplay. It was functionally just a random tax on planes that was worth enough that the difference between a favourable and unfavourable trade is just whether you dropped a pilot or not.

>>2461652
That's not random, it's supposed to discourage you from yeeting suicide bombers into the enemy back line.
Contrast that with air superiority fighters that will rarely leave your own air defence zone so even if they get shot down you can recover the pilot.

>>2461734
Whether a pilot drops is random.
>it's supposed to
It doesn't discourage anything, because it's random. You gamble that your 300pt bomber is going to trade up vs their 350pt tank and sometimes you trade down by 100pts because you drop a pilot but usually you don't so on average it's still the correct play.

Sometimes your B2 nuke kills 1100 points worth of enemy units and trade up, sometimes it drops a 200pt pilot and trades down.

A bomber has to fly over its target to drop its bomb and by nature of the game 90% of targets will be on the front line, meaning a pilot dropped on any normal bombing run is going to land within range of any frontline enemy unit and die. There's no way to hide or protect your pilot, everyone can see it parachute down. There's no SERE, there's no interactions that make a bomber less likely to get randomly onetapped through flares and 20% ECM.

If there was more mechanical depth to pilot SERE it wouldn't be such a problem but in its current state it's just a diceroll to donate 200 score to an enemy for daring to use planes.

How to fix pilots: they have to be captured by infantry physically stepping on them, they cannot be targetted

>>2444531
I would really like to play this, but I struggle to keep up on Red Dragon. If that beats me, this is gonna be nasty.

>>2461875
it felt much harder to get into than the wargames personally but now I kinda enjoy all the micro

I havent played in a few months, are there still normal people playing or is it all just the addicts who never stopped playing

>>2462587
The game is more active than it has been in ages thanks to the recent patch but rlo inflation means "normal" Eko is like 2000 now and the sweatlords are all 3k+

They didn't actually bother breaking down the system-wide infantry changes in the patch notes so for those of you who didn't bother with the PTE here's a QRD:

Infantry now have passive damage reduction normally but lose it when suppressed/panicked. Everything dies very fast once suppressed regardless of how much hp/armour you have.
As a consequence
>Large squads are much worse than before relative to small squads
>There's a much more extreme difference between squads with HE launchers and those without (CQC squads became more important)

Weapon DPS/Range/Pen was rebalanced and standardized. Most ARs are 500m, grenades are 400m while all support weapons are 600m. ARs provide a much smaller portion of a squad's overall DPS and suppression damage while squad weapons are overall more
As a consequence
>cheap squads (ie VDV, Mech Rifles, Moto, Baltic inf) are much more cost effective and expensive squads are much less cost-effective
>Marines and Airborne inf have been gutted and are now both pretty terrible
>Rangers are now a glass cannon with very cost-effective DPS but very vulnerable to return fire so they need a meatshield squad to soak damage for them.
>Russian inf is now really good across the board (except Desantniki, worst squad in the game)
It's easier to swarm with balls of cheap infantry now since frontloaded suppression lets them trade up against basically any elite infantry, which in turn makes anti-infantry bombers and breaching vehicles more important to punish blobbing.

As an aside, tanks being so good now means that IFVs are far less good, which generally means that the quality difference between infantry AT matters a lot less. An AT-4 and a MAAWS are generally doing pretty much the same damage to the front of a tank so paying a premium for a better launcher doesn't matter as much as just having a lot of cheap launchers to stack crits. The exceptions are the GRU and Gvardii with special launchers that still easily kill tanks.

It just seems near impossible to win if you have 2 or more chinese players on your team. Its really annoying getting nuked 3 times in a match too. Love playing the game but its so frustrating sometimes

>>2464331
They really just need to make nukes flat out once-per-match units. It's better now that their respawn time is really long but a single card still gets you two nukes per match and that's twice as much as necessary.

>>2462787
I had a lot of fun using cheap units en masse before. Just hordes of bmp1s filled with motostrelki and motopekhota, trucks carrying 3 squads at once, 6 cheap shitty t72s, and zu23 trucks everywhere

From the sound of it, the cheap infantry spam is better. But can the bmps get one shot now? Are they still able to swarm a sepv3 and win or have tank power levels been raised?

>>2464528
Tanks now deal more damage, meaning they now 2-shot every vehicle lighter than a tank (and tank v tank fights are more lethal). But they should only oneshot like unarmoured shitter vehicles, not IFVs.

I wouldn't expect a swarm of BMP-1s to win vs their cost's worth of tank but I haven't tried it myself. Might be funny. The cheap T-72s are also way better than they were before since they get the buffed damage while still being cheap.

>>2464430
you need nukes to have a chance against cheap russian inf spam

I think the devs arent adding replays on purpose because it would show how much of the playerbase is cheating
everyone knows it already but seeing it is another story, people would drop the game like crazy

>>2464950
My favorite line was when they said that people need to stop being racist to chinese players and that they dont cheat more than any other country, they just have more players

>>2464430
completely agree
>>2464633
russian infantry is so easy to deal with, what are you on about? US has so many good anti inf tools. SMAW, Catfae, Mech. Engineers, Rangers RRC CQB, Zaliukai/Delta/Marine Raiders, Strike Eagle, M1A1 HC, Airborne

>>2464972
yeah everyone who checked the steam ban stats is a confirmed racist

>>2465045
>yeah everyone who checked the stats is a confirmed racist
Many such cases