>Heard that a new patch recently came out>Decide to dive back in to try it out>Starting building up buildings and RGOs based on their potential tax income to starting bolstering my funds>None of these fucking buildings seem to have increased my income one fucking red cent, the only thing that seems to increase my income is building roads and bridgesI guess I have to learn this whole fucking game all over again. What did they change to economy?
JOHAN'D
>>2449255>increasing your control over provinces allows you to tax more of the wealth of those provinces>randomly building shit and upgrading RGOs where you dont have control just increases the wealth that your estates make and you cant efficiently tax, meaning your costs of court increase without commensurate increase in tax revenue
Haven't played since launch week and my conclusion was that it wasn't a game, or even a simulator. It was just a fucking program. An executable.
>>2449255>He trusted Johan "the first 100 years of EUV are filler" Andersson
>>2450614>richer people need to be taxed more else the kingdom will cost more
>>2453283if companies don't get their shit together, there will come a day when a single autist with an excel spreadsheet and a AI subscription will step over them. This is 10x more likely for graphically static shit like this.
>>2449255What I learned from EU5 is that you can give players literally everything they ever fucking wanted and they will still complain. For a decade I listened to uncs on /gsg/ seethe about how EU4 was too much of a casual mana map painter and that paradox needed to make the game harder and more like Vicky to bring back the Trve fans. Then they did that and its still nothing but endless seething.
>>2453905Personally I stopped giving a shit about what Paradox does since they went full Babylonian DLC whore more than a decade ago. I occasionally pirate their games, shitpost on /vst/, and move on
>>2453905EU5 is easier not harderIt's more like Crusader Kings than Victoria because of the characters
>>2453911>since they went full Babylonian DLC whore more than a decade agoThe worst part about the DLC train isn’t just the money, it’s that the DLC themselves bloat up and ruin the game on a long enough timeframe. The only good game they’ve made in the last ten years is Imperator, and they abandoned it (perhaps a blessing in disguise)
>>2453905I didn't want the game to run like shit.I didn't want the shittiest IU of all time.I didn't want 150+ years of game with no content.I didn't want to manage every shitty village on my kingdom.I didn't want characters with 3D portraits who look like shit and make no sense in an EU game.I didn't want the situation mechanic, I even want it less now because it doesn't work.I didn't want the Paradox DLC scam system.I could go on an on.Fuck you.
>>2453905don't steal the mechanics from meow and texas but dumb everything down, make shit not work, make all countries play identically, etcSit down, at the beginning, and plan out how your systems are supposed to work/interact with each otherMost importantly, make a SMALL ASSYMETRIC MAP FOR PRACTICAL 1-2 HOUR MULTIPLAYER SESSIONS
>>2453988truetruekinda truei want to do that trueit's better than mission trees or focus trees, but i could do without ittrue
>>2453905they listened the spergs on /gsg/ and the paradox forums that wanted meiou and taxes because they feel superior for playing an incredibly convoluted mod that they themselves only barely understand. Everyone that enjoyed playing EU games, especially mpfags just wanted the eu4 trade system that can flow in both directions, maybe an extra building or two, and some less mana abstraction without turning the game into an autistic economic calculation problem that needs to be studied at the end of every month tick.
>>2453387LOL>>2453905They released a fine game on release (unfinished tho, paradox shit) and they went consistently downhill every single patch changing shit that nobody asked, it was infuriating so I have no idea what could you possibly be talking about.
>>2453988>I didn't want to manage every shitty village on my kingdom.I do, probably won't do it but still want it.
>>2454071MPfags are less than 10% of the total playerbase. DO NOT EVER LISTEN TO THEM! They will destroy the game.
>>2454062>>2454075It's ok when you are a small to medium polity, or if you really really like a country. But it becomes retarded once you start to build an empire.
>>2454126Less than 1% of the players. Multiplayers should be ignored unless they're reporting a bug.
>>2454126>dont listen to mpfags in a game about geopolitics >listen to the meiou fags who made vicky in eu4 because they were frustrated that there hadn't been a new vicky for over 10 years
>>2453905sim chuds are just like that. They don't know what they really want, because their fantasy, what they wish for, is so diffuse, shapeless and clouded. What the most people want is a good game first. So for all the EU 1-4 chads, EU5 is a severe, but expected, disappointement.
>>2454321mp fags complain about balance in a real world map painter. There were several patches for EU4, where mp autism made sp more unfun.>>2454071kinda this. EU5 should have been an evolution, iteration not a complete overhaul.
>>2453905>that paradox needed to make the game harder and more like Vicky to bring back the Trve fansWasn't vicky2 infamously easy as soon as you learned the basics? Build liquor factories, set education slider to max steal gold from ooga booga kingdoms, if you're an ooga booga kingdom conquer land to westernise and get free tech, defend from mountains.
stopped playing when they started removing features instead of fixing them (3 weeks after launch)Eu4 is a better game and probably always will be unfortunately
Anyone who says eu5 is harder than eu4 is obviously baiting. The choices it give you are just as trival and obvious, there's just more of them.
>>2454533mpfags also prevent single player autists from filling the game with so much bloat that it needs to be paused and studied every 20 seconds
>>2453988>I didn't want the game to run like shit.wallet issue>I didn't want the shittiest IU of all time.no worse than in other pdx games, you just need to get into it>I didn't want 150+ years of game with no content.true, they need to bring back missions>I didn't want to manage every shitty village on my kingdom.fuck you I wanna manage them all + you can literally automate them with an achievement compatible mod>I didn't want characters with 3D portraits who look like shit and make no sense in an EU game.meme complaint>I didn't want the situation mechanic, I even want it less now because it doesn't work.>>"wah I hate having no flavor, but actually flavor sucks even more than no flavor11!!1" What the fuck is wrong with you?>I didn't want the Paradox DLC scam system.Literally more content than eu4 with all dlc in the base game. Easily enough shit to do for 1k hours of gameplay
>>2449255The game has one big issue and some smaller issues. The big issue is, that expanding isn't fun and the gameplay loop sucks cock. It makes no sense that a huge empire is capped by how many chuds they have in their cabinet and can't core stuff any quicker than small countries. Coring should be done with a slider and costs (cash + manpower) should be directly connected to how much stuff you are integrating at once. Big, rich empires like the Turks should be able to core Egypt in like 10-20 years. Also, war score cost is too high. The only real limiter on how much you can take should be some overextension penalty and coring costs. If you can actually occupy France fully in one war, as well as being able to cope with massive overextension, coring and antagonism, you should be able to annex France in one war. Huge conquest is satisfying and a fun end game goal. Instead, you fight a world war for half of Lombardy, which is fucking stupid and not fun at all.Smaller issues include a lack of flavor and individuality for countries, autistic, pseudo deep fake economy on the level of artisans making tanks out of fruit, where you have to be an islamic merchant republic to make any money with trade at all and buildings are useless except if you stack production efficiency to the point where you can produce a fuckload of goods nobody even consumes for a profit.Those wouldn't really be an issue if conquest was fun and if you could LARP properly, but you can't really therefore eu5 is currently shit if you don't have autism. My friends who play eu4 say eu5 lacks the spark that eu4 has, and I think that spark is a fun, arcadey gameplay loop like eu4 has
>>2454833>If you can actually occupy France fully in one war, as well as being able to cope with massive overextension, coring and antagonism, you should be able to annex France in one war.Not even ww2 germany managed that but you're expecting 14th centyry monarchies to do it
>>2453905The game is nothing like Victoria 2. The way markets, buildings, estate and government funding interact with each other is disjointed and almost arbitrary. It feels like Johan just copy pasted the code from Eu4 into Imperator Rome and scaled the pops up.
>>2455030No I don't, but I'm saying war score cost shouldn't be the limiter. I'm saying you should collapse from revolts, colaitions and going bankrupt from coring costs.>>If you can actually occupy France fully in one war, as well as being able to cope with massive overextension, coring and antagonism
>>2453905Why do so many talk about eu5 like johan did it on his spare time out of the goodness of his heart, for so much he loved paradox kind, instead of being a lead developer making a product competing both with products of other companies and older products of his own.
>>2453905I think the game would be a lot better if the start date was still 1444. Not enough happens in the 100 or so years prior to that and all the major events that did happen which setup all the fun from the 1444 start never follows that plan, so all the setup that makes the 1444-1821 timeline enjoyable never happens. So the game just goes nowhere forever. All it seems to do is make France or England a massive blob.
>>2455732True. 1337 start date shifts colonization firmly into mid-late game and adds the need for ck3 style levies (I fucking HATE levies). Also removes things that are necissary for the early modern paradigm to come about, like the Timurid Empire, Burgundy and its eventual inheritance, the rise of the Ottomans and the Polish Lithuanian commonwealth
>>2455793I think the people at tinto decided that the change from using levies to standing armies was a fundamental part of europe and never had second thoughts about how to actually implement it.
>>2455732>Not enough happens in the 100 or so years prior to that and all the major eventsNo it does. 100 years war, plague that wipes out a large part of Europe, rise of Ming, rise of Ottomans, disintegration of Golden horde. I'd make a case more happens in the century before 1444 than does in the one after it. EU5 is just terrible at simulating those things.
>>2455819100 years war was not relevant and the black death is a meme because it affects everyone around you aswell so it doesnt even matterottomans were still "rising" in 1444 and golden horde not done either
>>2455819>EU5 is just terrible at simulating those things.Thats my point, the years between 1337 and 1444 had some major moments but it never plays out that way so the 1444 start is all scrambled and messed up, so the things that people like generally dont come close to happening. I haven't played for 2000 hours or anything, but in the ~200 i got i never once saw the Ottomans take out the Mamluks, or Russia ever really become anything like the AI reliably could in 4, I think i once saw the PLC form at a strong state. I never paid attention to it myself but have anons ever seen Ming form on time? The tldr is the 107 years between the two start dates had too many things that needed to happen in a specific order to create the fun sandbox during 4's timeline.
>>2454824>I didn't want the game to run like shit.>wallet issueIf my rig can run RDR2 at 4k/60fps I see no reason why it should not run a fucking spreadsheet with fancy windowdressing.So fuck you again.
>>2454793Pausing the game is good. Gives you time to focus on the immersion.
>>2456300Johan already built that into the game by making it crash frequently.
Does anyone here also hate the cabinet mechanics? It's literally mana and doesn't make sense at all. Why shouldn't I be able to have a 20 people cabinet as some HRE chud in 1337? Why is there a magical barrier that prevents me from hiring more dudes to work for me? And why exactly does my entire administration and everything it does depend on these motherfuckers? Why do I need to tell Dr. Wilhelm Bratwurst von Cuntenstein to integrate Frankfurt for me? Wouldn't that be done by a nameless mass of bureaucrats, bailiffs and clergymen that would only really be capped by how much money you can spare and how well your governing institutions are equipped?TL:DR cabinet = mana and it's not even fun or makes sense
>>2457019Easier to make an effective attention feedback loop if you make the consequences of decisions instant like with wizards..
ill never understand why autists want this level of depth to a point where you need a shitty ai to automate large portions of the game. Ruins the whole part of the experience where you find efficient builds and learn what to make. You're just sitting there watching an AI crunch numbers that have no meaning whats the point
>>2457492somehow there are so many players who want EU to be something it never was. I blame all the new players coming in during EU4's lifespan, thinking grand strategy is some uber genre encompassing all and every detail of guiding a nation, while most of the games are whacky map painters.When you go too far into simulation territory, it becomes less of a game. And simulating is better done by computers, so pdx made a game that is in parts better played by itself than by its players.
>>2457019I think they would be more fun if coring wasn't tied to it. They give you all these options to do with them but then make you lock the members down for years just to core a county.
>>2457492The stellar success of KCD1 and a few similar games psyoped a lot of people into thinking they wanted a realistic history game and not, you know, novel mechanics and a simple linear story for once.
>>2453905Honestly? We didn't know how good we had it
The problem isn't that EU5 is a bad game or anything. It's just a bad EU game. They should have just called it Meiou & Taxes 2 and released it as a spin-off, cause that's what it is. I like it, but for different reasons than EU4.
>>2459604EU4 is the odd one out, EU5 is much closer to EU3.
>>2456245Seethe, poor.
>>2463338Shh, don't spoil it for him.
>>2453905EU5 has a complicated simulationist economy like Vicky but it fails to replicate what makes Vicky 2 (with HPM of course) so comfy>short time period packed with interesting historical events>simulation which can capture the sense of rapid progess and interaction between technology, economy and politics and military development>aesthetic and easily usable (once you are used to it) UI>different game mechanics and priorities for Europe vs Americas vs Uncivs>enough railroading to make historically plausible outcomes>great power system that leads to interesting wars and challenges for the playerEU5 fails at every single point
>>2464203EUV is trying really hard to be Victoria most of the time. The problem is that it starts in the FUCKING MEDIEVAL AGES.
Man EU5 feels so god damn sterile and i really despise the constant bipolar ass balancing.A byzantine bureaucracy load of unreleated modifiers per dice roll and all they can think of is "x now stackwipes, x is now worthless."Wars, piracy, diplomacy, trade, economy, statecraft - it all feels so arbitrary/unimpactful.Was the inspiration for this to patch out as much gameplay as possible from EU4 and Imperator and replace it all with sliders and backend calculations ? A million mechanics and nothing feels impactful.
>>2453905Vic2 is funEU5 isn't
>>2463338EU3 is a farcry from a simulation. Instead of mana you had regenerating agentd, which mechanically is mana with a different name. Also sliderkino. EU3 was more sandboxy than any other EU, but that doesn't make it a sim.>>2463746you didn't play EU3
>>2453905EU4 + reworked dev system + population mechanic tied to manpower + more sensible military access and attrition meaning you can't go 50 provinces deep without holding the ones behind you.That was literally all that was needed, instead we got cookie clicker where it's just perma number goes up and there's no difference between the countries because you don't have simple easy to understand national ideas. It reminds me a lot of when people didn't like the MoP-SL talent trees in wow and so they wanted to go back to proper talent trees, only to end up doing the exact same thing; copy from wowhead or favourite streamer and just use a cookie cutter build. That's mana in the EU games, people say they don't want it and they want it different only for them to be faced with a system they are going to optimize anyway and it's essentially the same thing just devolved a little bit.
>>2465252It's impressive how they just can't seem to make a good game out ouf their ambition™ to produce a simulation. It's not the first time this approach failed miserably. They need to get real and accept that Vic 2 was an outlier, despite its further need for polish.
>>2453905As one of those "uncs" seething on /gsg/ I am actually quite happy with EU5. There's just a laundry list of minor problems that make the game really annoying to play at times, but honestly they're moving in the right direction. What it does desperately need for an EU game is:>proper colonization/exploration mechanics that feel satisfying and rewardingCaribbean sugar islands were obscene profitable for countries that managed to hold onto them. Spain got ridiculously wealthy from American gold and silver (before they bricked their own economy with inflation from it). The Dutch and Portuguese made huge profits from accessing the trade in India and China. But none of these are really effective ways to play the game. Sure you can turn some profit but the manufacturing side of things scales so fast that it ends up being a rounding error. >1444/1453/1492 start dateIt's too hard to railroad AI countries into their historical expansion paths without this so you rarely see any of the classic early modern powers that don't exist in 1337. Also, the idea of playing as a colonial-focused power like England or is very unappetizing because you have to spend the first 100 years jerking off, or go for crazy blobbing expansion routes in Europe.
>>2465309>England orEngland or Portugal*
>>2453905It took EU5 to make us realise how good we had it with EU4. Most players including myself have returned to EU4 and haven't looked back.
Haven't played since 1.2 Gib some fun countries to play as. I played Byzantium before the byzantium update, so preferably something else.
>>2465423Malacca was fun in EU4, try it in EU5 and tell me how it goes
>>2465424Could try that. I was thinking about that rough region anyway, considering something that could make the Khmer empire. But Malacca could be fun, too.
>>2465433It's a pretty fun region for naval shenanigans. Once you finally unite most of the islands under your banner you become pretty defendable against European powers. With a big enough navy you can just sink or drive them off.
>>2465309>they're moving in the right directionkinda not enough, if you pay 60 bux + dlc tax, if you ask me.Paraslop isn't a small indie dev anymore. We can demand certain standards from them and they should have some self-respect as creators and an ambition to deliver a polished, fully working product
>>2465423Define "fun" in eu5 for you, swimming through events and making use of whatever bonuses a tag may have? Otherwise you know they are all the same.
>>2465290Vicky's simulation is fun because the game loop (number go up) and historical reality (industrial revolution) are aligned. It works so well and influences so many of the other mechanics that the janky aspects are easily overlookedEU5's time period doesn't have an easy teleological narrative, at least not one that applies to every nation at every period from 1337 to the 19th century. You could definitely create something like Vicky's economy and pops by focusing on trade and exploration as the driver for other developments (this is what EU should be, thematically) but the devs didn't have a focused vision like that
If i dont have any interest in playing Byz there's no reason to get the phoenix DLC right. I dont know if that DLC adds anything for other countries i care about.
>>2453905The reason why listening to the fans was a bad idea many times, majority just exist to kvetch, and more than half don't even play the game lol
>>2456245small indie company pls understand
>>2465707>and more than half don't even play the game lolthat's a problem for johan.
What I'd like to do:>Start: Start as European country>ASAP: Adopt some subsaharan african culture as my primary culture and convert to some african paganism>End goal: turn as much of europe into africa culturally and convert it to african paganismI think the best starting country is going to be Portugal, possible Holland - if you think there's another option, tell me.What I don't know 'how' to achieve is: How do I get the conditions so I can adopt subsaharan african culture as primary (Either majority of population being that OR the subsaharan culture holding most wealth). Any ideas on that? Can you move the subsaharan african pops from overseas into mainland? Or maybe I should wipe out my european population through diseases and war?The problem is that there are lot of small african cultures.First I want to achieve the culture+faith change, then I can start thinking about the end goal.See pic related I have chunk of Africa, 25% of my population is non-european, however any singular african country is at most 5% of my population.
>>2465705Just steal it you dumb nigger. Parakikes do not deserve your goybucks
>>2465828I wasn't going to buy it. But i have no reason to bother pirating it either if its just Byz.
>>2453922what anime is this?
when will this game be on sale againi wanna give it another shot
>>24539051) They made the game too autistic. The reason Victoria 2's economy is more fun is because it's deep enough to where your actions in the game can affect the amount of goods on the world market, which is engaging and fun. But it's not so deep that it's got different types of fucking paper for no reason.2) Nothing ever happens, which is the actual reason Victoria 3 also flopped. Too much focus was put into making the game as autistic as possible and not enough focus was put into making things happen. Contrast this with the mechanically shallow game HOI4 in which stuff happens all the time, or even Victoria 2 in which stuff happens even when campaigns aren't railroaded by mods.
>>2465817retarded brown fanfic
>>2453905They listened to the 0.01% of people who played M&T and surprisingly 99.09% of the fanbase does not want to play some even more autistic mod that barely works.
>>2465320I am physically incapable of going back to a game without pops, I've been spoiled. I'm playing Vicky 2 and 3 and Stellaris now.
>>2465915>2) Nothing ever happens, which is the actual reason Victoria 3 alsoVictoria 3 is pretty successful for kind of game it is.
>>2457659>KCD1Kingdom Come: Deliverance? What. Wasn't that an entirely different genre
>>2465915Shut the fuck up, you casual piece of shit scrub. When people bitch about casuals ruining games, they're talking about (you).Nothing pleases me more than watching dimwits get filtered.
>>2465915>But it's not so deep that it's got different types of fucking paper for no reason.Ay this nigga got filtered by recipes. >Save me johan this is too autistic!
>>2467024>I am physically incapable of going back to a game without popsImperator killed EU4. Well, Paradox's DLC killed EU4, but Imperator killed even the corpse.
I got memed into buying this dogshit game on release. Is it still “nothing happens” the game?
>>2467812Pretty much.
>>2467812They announced one really positive change for the next major update but it's bringing back something that was bafflingly removed from the previous games, they're moving a bunch of not consistently triggering unique country events to decisions
>>2454690No. Maybe actually play games you larper
EU5 failed because they listened to retarded jewtubers that just wanted to do le heckin meme videos and balanced according to their in house MP games instead of making a good game (like Victoria 2)
When is 1.4 supposed to come out?I was itching for a playthrough, but I will be on a 3 week vacation in 2,5 weeks and don't want to come home to a patch that invalidates my playthrough.
>>2469554Soon(tm)They might give a better idea in the TT this week
>>2469558Okay, thanks. In that case I'll hold off and play uhh...>CK3 DLC coming 30th of September>TWW FINAL DLC coming 24th of SeptemberTerra Invicta I guess?
>>2469559I think they're gonna do another open beta for 1.4, so that might pop up before you go
>>2469560Yeah, I'll look through the changelog and see if it's going to be relevant for the country I play to play.Probably Poland or the Aztecs.Thanks anon.
>>2468409the problem is they decided to shove vicky shit into eu
>>2469559Lol this is my exact thought process with all three games. Playing the 2003 scenario in Terra Invicta rn and waiting for TW and CK3 to drop their dlc next month.
The celts shall rule again
>>2470133When are you going to cleanse Britain and Gaul of the germanic filth currently occupying it
>>2470090I prefer Broken Earth. It's actually balanced and fun.
>>2469559Also>Endless Legend 2 launches in 1.0 on Septemter 17th with loads of new content
>>2470207I'm afraid not any time soon.
>>2468409Unironically you couldn’t be more wrong.If they catered to YouTuber trash, then it would be ADHD, mission tree riddled bullshit with the game going at a gorillion years per minute since all the EU4 jewtubers just spam click the events and play at 5x speed to maximize free casus belli from their beloved mission trees.
>they are adding mana back inHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHHAHAHHAHAHAHAHHAHA
>>2449255Haven't played it yet it but it seems like such an unbalanced mess, and its different mechanics don't blend well together. It's basically a $60 betaI wouldn't even bother with it because they're still trying to figure out how to make it decent, and that could take years (if ever)
>>2471425This time its only one mana type and it will do everything :D
>>2471425gold, stability, legitimacy, and prestige were all manas
>>2471425>inb4 mana was always a good mechanic
>>2471425Focus tree next since mission trees didn't go far enough.
>>2471425Stability is already mana
>>2453905... and then they've made Vicky for EU4 crowd and EU5 for Vicky 3 crowd.Wow, who could expected their game will be shit.The acrual old guard is still playing EU3/Vicky 2/HoI3 (or DH, depending on the flavour). PDX simply fucked up by first nutruring the CK2/EU4 playerbase and then trying to be "hardcore" for them in their post-Imperator slop.
>>2455059I wouldn't be surprised if that's how it actually went
>>2471496Gold is not manaProperly handled stability isn't mana (see - pre-EU4)Legitimacy was a mistake AND manaPrestige was originally just your final game score and should remained thereMana is, well, mana, when its generation is almost or entirely disjoined from your performance and/or gained by RNG factor outside of player control. Therefore, your gold as income can't be mana, unless you fuck up game design badly (see: I:R)
>>2464794>Also sliderkino. EU3 was more sandboxy than any other EU, but that doesn't make it a sim.And EU5 also has sliders fucking retard.
>>2472975How the fuck is EUV hardcore. Most of the new concepts it presents like proximity/control are extremely easy to understand. In fact it's more easy because the IA is braindead.
>>2473122>IA
>>2473127
>>2465582Good post.Complexity is not coherence.
I can't believe allies are still almost completely incapable of even moving to a country during war time
>>2473131>>2473127>>2473122He's actually French (even worse)
>>2453905You're right and that's why anons are seething. Either they are trying to protect their fragile ego after being shown wrong, or they are retarded.
>>2473249>He's actually French
So, uhh, should I play now or wait until the new patch? This is always my question with this PoS game.
