Shot Edition>What is /lig/?/lig/ is a thread for viewers to find, share, and discuss indie vtubers who have on average 500 viewers or more.>Why /lig/?Large indie vtubers have more net fans, but they are outnumbered by 2views by the thousands. This is a thread for the VIP, regardless of what language they stream on.>Can I shill my 499view oshi here?Considering averages fluctuate widely, all the way down to 100 is reasonable. The minimal requirement however is being Twitch partner or the YouTube equivalent in numbers.>Wait isn't that one a corpo?/lig/ is a thread for chuubas of a decent size who aren't defined by their corporate branding, either due to the small size of the corporation or the independence and lack of oversight granted to the talents>/lig/ Numbershttps://lignumbers.neocities.org/>Twitch Clips Guidehttps://pastelink.net/34vd5>VOD Archival Guidehttps://rentry.org/Vod_Archival_Guide>/lig/ VOD Archivehttps://rentry.org/Indie_Vod_Archives_lig_>Koikatsu cardshttps://mega.nz/folder/JYtkXJwL#07gAQCQqI_9FsmX9oQJKSA>/lig/ Wheel of Nameshttps://wheelofnames.com/5jh-93j>Tiermakerhttps://tiermaker.com/create/-lig--16586688-3>/lig/ Chuuba Birthday Calendar (WIP)https://www.canva.com/design/DAE-XgWodVg/ofLz4QC1yPPQ4T6TTAE0fw/edit?utm_content=DAE-XgWodVg>Upcoming BirthdaysJuly 20th - Callie CalicoJuly 23rd - ShondoJuly 24th - ShxtouJuly 28th - Eros ValentyneAugust 5th - ShylilyAugust 6th - TobAugust 11th - Delutaya & ViennaAugust 12th - Silvervale & YanderaeAugust 16th - SigridAugust 19th - Sayu SincronisityAugust 20th - Beribug & girl_dm_ & Techycutie>OC material for the OPhttps://mega.nz/folder/IIVD1IaJ#cfsRhWdJvzneIoG8HZUPuw>/lig/booruhttps://ligbooru.moe/>Duckshttps://www.twitch.tv/dashducks (embed) (embed) (embed) (embed) (embed)Other useful threads:>>>/vt//big/>>>/vt//corpo/>>>/vt//choc/>>>/vt//flip/>>>/vt//haha/>>>/vt//indie/>>>/vt//mint/>>>/vt//swarm/>>>/vt//vrt/>>>/vt//xvsj+/Previous Thread: >>113427478
bats
I love my cute, horny and bratty sex fox. I LOVE HER SO MUCH! Erm!
Are you cool?
>>113431565look what para taught her
https://www.twitch.tv/parasi
I love Milky!
>>113431573Hell yeah.
uuu
God I really want to cum inside Shyrei (Squchan)
>>113431582brown
>>113431588Watch geekinggoddess8 with me on Twitch! https://www.twitch.tv/geekinggoddess8I'm watching this. She averages about the same ccv as bloom.
good morning any liggenings recently? anything I should watch today
para gets flustered when her sister brings girlfriends to the house
>>113431582anal sex with bara
Para is my au pair from some far away oriental land that I just call Chinese
Why does varidetta look so retarded today
>>113431646kek
>>113431668model downgrade
Rape, behead and consume the flesh of bat posters.
>>113431613boobs
>>113431630no we are closed today, goodbye
>>113431718omg hi essie hello
>>113431582cant wait for her to get buzzed and start shouting about male milking farms or something just as her sister's friend comes back in
>>113431718good girl... cry for daddy... daddy loves your tears... mhmmm....
>>113431605My condolences.
>>113431718*hits essie*
>>113431550Great to see the useful links are back!
essie owes me my life savings
La bruja oveja
>>113431771Any day that doesn't need an AK is a good day
>>113431550Bad to see the useful links are back!
Filian is a wonderful person who is worthy of love and support
>>113431778Strange, only /choc/ is useful out of all those.
sinuuki owes me sex for skipping stream preferably in her miku cosplay
I hope Layna becomes homeless and starves to death after being replaced by AI
>>113431821you don't really hope that
hell yeah deme terraria
bat owes me sex in rathalos cosplay
sexy para voice
doob
>>113431866Making me feel depressed right now, nonny
>>113429349
>>113431834If I got to choose between that and winning the lottery, I'd have Layna with soot all over her face crying on the street every time
>>113431888I relish gosling suffering
your oshi but with really heavy hangers and small nipples
>>113431916
para wants to learn from gypsies
>>113431934>9952x1278What braindead monkey made this. Scrolling goes from top to down, not left to right.
>>113431934die
>>113431951Yet she refuses to watch RES VODs on stream. Fake streamer.
>>113431955Haha phonefaggot
i hate palworld
>>113431969https://www.twitch.tv/deme
>>113431978KanekoLumi's made me laugh but I don't browse /pcg/ so I didn't see the fallout, I regret that
got my para hello :)
>>113431588
>>113432012She's never goin to watch my VODs on stream. She hates me.
>>113431982deme x sinder fansly collab
Every fucking day like a broken record.
>>113432012gift me a sub the smasher you niggayou gift random parasites and not your 4chin homies
>>113432050Exactly how hip hop was born.
>>113432065what's your username?
>>113432050how can a bat be a record
>>113432024hang in there bro maybe one day it will happen
Who is your favorite 2hu?
>>113432075She refused to sing my song request. I know her type.
>>113432071I'll post a squirrel
>>113432082ever since para told that story about her masturbating through the wall to the sounds of paramini getting plapped i cant watch
>>113431588It’s Tuesday
>>113432091If you sound autistic enough and do it on YouTube chat maybe she'll watch your channel like she did for that furry fart fetish guy a while ago
>>113432071ty
>https://www.twitch.tv/margoMargo Monday (Tuesday)
>>113432110Who is paramini?
>>113432123no problem bro
>>113432122No. She hates me.
para STINKS
>>113432144SNIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIFFFFFFFFFFFFF
>>113432110may we hear it
>>113432110Hot (if true but probably not in this cruel world)
>>113432128it's what she calls her penis
>>113432155no i made it up for attention
>>113432082that one 2hu with the exposed armpits
>>113432185fuck my chudcel life
how do you cope with the fact that one day your oshi will graduate and move on with her life. get married, have kids and completely forget about you, while you are left with nothing?
>>113432196I thought Nur was a robot
Ignore demoralization propaganda, post Neuro holes.
I wish Michi was live
>>113432196I was already like that before her so it don’t matta. None of this mattas.
>>113432196
>>113432196I'm here for a good time, not a long time. People come and go.
sex with yenkoes
>>113432230
Can you guys lighten up?
>>113431621I got curious and looked, she has a ccv of 12 and Bloom has a ccv of 96, why are you like this
>>113432196we will all die soon and soon everyone who knew us will also die, soon all humans will also be gone. everything exists solely for my amusement, nothing more
>>113432243Yenkoes yentoes
>>113432243Somehow less suggesting than the Krum daki
>>113432268also nonpartner vs partnerenvy maybe?
no para erika cover :pensive:
>https://www.twitch.tv/ninanininNeener
>>113431969I like it
>>113432262ok
>>113432295She should sing Panzerlied then.
>>113432268>Both can't break 100 ccvI said what I said.
>>113432286Partner is a nothing burger these days. I've found 3ccv partners.
>>113432299minx
>>113432295Erika isn't even some evil nazi song
>>113432196You're supposed to be building your own life at the same time. What have you done to better your life recently?
>>113432400Can't AI do that yet? fucking useless
I Love Lucy
>>113432400How am I supposed to do that if all my time is spent watching chuubas
Any good Bastille-streams?
>>113432438Have you tried spending lest time on chuubas?
>>1134323183/4 of the last bloom streams went over 100ccv what are you even talking about mate
>>113432299
>>113432438Vtubers don't stream enough to fill up an entire week
>>113432196How would you cope if the world decided toMake you suffer for all that you're worth?How could you dance if no-one was watchingAnd you couldn't even get off the floor?~
which liggers are from Detroit
>>113432475whatare you saying i am doing this wrong?
>>113432466>Moving the goal post
>>113432449Like bat at spelling
>>113432481HeavenlyFather
>>113431948Depressing af
It's funny when the special ED kid gets angry. Literal baby rage on the level of calling people poopyhead
>>113432469some of them try
>>113432469That's when I watch youtube videos of the stuff I missed from other vtubers>>113432449No that sounds dumb
>>113432481Kevin Nash
>>113432515The heroes we all asked for
I love Lucy
>>113432443Para is live
>>113432534She better be praying toMBP
we are all chilling in deme's stream, terraria > palworld
>>113432551Slit your wrists
>>113432551
>>113432196I have more hope than my oshi, good odds and don't let shyness hold me back. Everyone graduates at some point, but it's sad to think she may never have her own family after how often she gets down about it. So knowing it actually happened would be good news. Your favorite film, show, book and game series all end too. This entertainment isn't so different.
>Margo talking about how she likes the Jackass stunts where it gets too real for them because she likes to see the look of fear in men's eyes
>>113432559uhmscary.
>>113432335> The minimal requirement however is being Twitch partnerpost those instead then angry boi :)
>>113432555many such shadowmama cases
Beat battle for Torture Tuesday
Juniper might actually watch my VODs one day, or sing for me. Parasi? Proven untrue.
>see Lucia's new model on following page thumbnail>looks a little derpy but decide to click to check how it moves before passing judgement>load in>immediately talking about how she loves feet cause they're underappreciated and women are usually on their back to show them off>segues into talking about how she needs to get with a girl because she learned how to eat pussy>segues into talking about how the clitoris and penis are incredibly similarI just wanted to see her model wtfNot a lewdtuber btw
I want paraball stream so I can see her cute pouts when spain scores
Bush fans, I hope you're here listening to Lina talk about her bush before she finishes.
>>113432591her new model looks terrible and that's all you need to know
>>113432284Hasn't that happened before? A murder case but maybe it doesn't count since it was streaming and not vtubing. With the doxxing that goes on its anyone's guess whether its a gosling or an anti who does it first.
>>113432486What would you do if you couldn't even feel?Not even pitiful pain?How would you deal with the empty decisionsEating away at your days?
>>113432577Twitch partner numbers on average is lower these days. Down to 3 ccv. At this point if you made affiliate you could have partner if you applied. They just gave it out willy nilly.
>>113432551Hang yourself
>>113432551>we are allyou and you cuck chair
Layna's laugh ruined my day
>>113432608yeah it was the plot to a law & order SVU episode
there is nothing wrong with being a cuckold
>>113432639wrong
Just watch and post about the girls you like. Don't let hatred consume you.
and yet he's not partnered. curious.
>>113432648this
>>113432653>Posts Lumi, Avatar of Hatred
>>113432653whore
>>113432591>how she loves feet cause they're underappreciatedIs she retarded? Foot fetishism is such a common thing nowadays because of the internet to the point people basically look at them as inherently sexual in nature
Wayna is wivehttps://www.twitch.tv/laynalazar
>>113432669NTA but I like lumi, she's kinda funnyHer chat can be pretty retarded though
>>113432669She's only ever been nice to me
I hope Layna consumes me after I've marinated in poison
>>113432597>spain>scoring
Para starting her humiliation ritual
I love my wife
beat is slange for cock in french
In 9 Days it'll be Shondo's birthday, show your appreciation by making a tile for her birthday card! Standard card rules apply: Submissions must be SFW and have dimensions that are a multiple of 200 (i.e. 200x200, 400x400, 200x400). On top of that:>Her neck and wrists must be obscured at all times, either by her ribbons or by something else (for lore reasons that are very important to her)>Shondo is flat as a board, don't give her any kind of cleavage>No AI artSome things she likes for inspiration:>Her friends (non-inclusive): The Barbies, Moriko, Alice Sawyer, Lucy Pyre, Anny, Saruei, Filian>Her cat and manager Otis>(You) (me)>Movies: Horror, Disney, Barbie>Breaking Bad>Serial killers>Games: Sims, Bloons, Outer Wilds, Half-Life series, Blue Archive (especially Hina), Saya no UtaModel references and cat pictures:https://mega.nz/folder/Nvc1XaJJ#aiDk1B0YsESNZ8FXPaBdDwhttps://x.com/managerotisThe deadline for the card is July 23rd at midnight EST. That's 5am BST and 9pm July 22nd for PST. Make sure you get your tiles in before then
>>113432722woodchipper
>>113432630>you and youpowerful izzat flows from this one
>>113432722>CirnoShondo would be more of a Parsee girl.
>>113432630>and you cuck chair*you're
>>113432669>Avatar of HatredThat would be Bat.
I simply live with the pain.
>https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nqOJPjkkWWEBREAKING BAT NEWS: New letsplay
@NyaruIdol culture isn't what enables chuubas to sing and perform and write music. Idol culture is the social mechanism by which chuubas are dehumanized and exploited, forced to put on the persona of a pure young angel who's never looked at a man in her life in order to make money for a company that exploits and abuses her. It is this exploitation that is dying with the sinking ship that is "idol culture". And despite this culture shift, people are still writing and singing and performing music. You are not losing these things. In fact, with this shift away from less demanding social structures, musical performances have reached entire new swaths of people, both viewers and performers. People like Limes, Snuffy, Shylily, Matara, Kaneko Lumi, Callie, Coqui, Rummy, Fang, none of these people and probably dozens more would ever get into live performance if it meant needing to uphold a fake life and distance themselves from their fanbase, because VTubers and their fans like to support and inspire each other. And that's what this culture shift is about: Supporting each other instead of fans deifying VTubers while forcing them to be something they're not
>>113432680a climb to around 3k avg across 10 years is quite the journey
para is goslingbaiting
>>113432551why does rin hate our queen now?
>>113432804This isn't Xitter retard
Layna is my beautiful queen and I hope she takes over the world
>>113432824a distinct lack of sticky ballsacks that anons love
>>113432824sometimes people just look for what will net the most (You)s for the foreseeable future
>>113432722I've watched enough cirno to where I now think of the streamer before the touhou girl lmaoIs shondo a touhou fan?
>>113432847And?
>>113432859I literally don't think she's ever mentioned it
>>113432653This woman literally makes me into a worst person and her very existence fills me with rage. So I really like her and would honestly date her with marriage in mind.
>>113432804reddit post
bruh ain't no way Lina didn't know that meat is muscle
>>113432752but enough about your own post>>113432776your*esl
>>113432913meat is a vtuber retard
>>113432907How so?
para isn't making it out the hood with this one
>>113432925*ur
>>113432804Why are you scared of just replying to her directly through xitter, MisterPersonGuy?
>>113432196shes going to marry me and we will have kids
And you got a matching little butler boy - you butt fuck!
>>113432896Her model can look so bitchy but she's so hot
someone made /lig/ ASMRhttps://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4bFPi0rwLyw
>>113432983>>113432987well what are the odds
>>113432804You keep jumping between "idol culture" meaning "musical performance". "corporate exploitation", and "parasocial expectations" as though they're all the same thing. They aren'tNobody is arguing that singing and live performances cease to exist the moment idol culture declines. The disagreement is over whether the expectations and aesthetics associated with idol culture contributed to the popularity of those things in the first placeAnd you're doing the same thing with exploitation. There are obviously examples of companies mistreating talent, but you've expanded that into a claim that idol culture itself is fundamentally exploitative and dehumanizing. Why?Because the examples you listed don't actually prove that. They prove that some performers prefer a looser relationship with their audience and a less restrictive image. That's very different from proving that idol culture is uniquely abusive or that its decline is the reason these people entered the spaceAs for "supporting each other instead of fans deifying VTubers" idol fans would say that's exactly what they've been doing this entire time. So what specifically has changed?
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nqOJPjkkWWEbatAtGFE begins a new journey. she is miss sleepy bat
Are the bots gonna argue again.
>>113433058pls do
bro shut up this isn't debate club
somebody take away para's FL studio license
>>113432995Which only makes it better. Is she truly hot if she wasn't a little bit bitchy? Getting into a daily argument with her over something neither one us really care about just because there's sexual tension sounds like fun.
I'm gay
ate a sandwich and now my tummy hurt
>>113433010>Gay For Trans Girls Inspection / Tingles & SoftMY ALGORITHM
I'm goy
>>113433076this shit is straight ass. I guess it's fitting for a torture tuesday
>>113433106why do you keep doing this to yourself batposter
>>113433068Proof for this claim?
>>113433106get well soon
>>113432804Fuck off Coqui
>>113433106Karmic punishment.
>>113433021>Nobody is arguing that singing and live performances cease to exist the moment idol culture declinesThat is Nyaru and Silvi's exact fear, SIlvi is stating that in this image and Nyaru has stated that before>As for "supporting each other instead of fans deifying VTubers" idol fans would say that's exactly what they've been doing this entire time. So what specifically has changed?The fans are supporting actual people instead of the fake personas that their boss forces them to adoptThe rest of that is a matter of lived experience not conditional arguments, it doesn't need the level of scrutiny that you're asking for>>113433155Coqui would be on Nyaru's side with this one, they both grew up with that shit and are likely afraid of change
>>113433178sneed
>>113432804NYARU SHOW ME YOUR NIPPLES ALREADY
>>113432804Maybe it's just me, but it idols seem kind of manufactured to me. Kinda like old western boy bands/girl groups, and kinda how hololive is compared to the average indie vtuber. They take a bunch of people from nothing and push and mould them into a product that's gonna be successful. They provide something of value to the talent of the people and thus expect things in exchange. And I think it's a fairly common notion that especially the entertainment business can be very exploitative. And yeah, what does even idol mean in this context? I agree with you. And people usually like those peoples music because they like them as a streamer first and foremost, not the other way around.
>>113433178>That is Nyaru and Silvi's exact fearThen say that. Because "idol culture is dying" and "certain people are worried that specific traditions associated with it will disappear" are not the same argument>The fans are supporting actual people instead of the fake personas that their boss forces them to adoptYou're still treating all idol-adjacent VTubing as though it's one uniform system where every performer is being forced into a role against their will. Some people clearly dislike that structure. Others actively sought it out>The rest of that is a matter of lived experienceLived experience can explain why someone feels a certain way. It doesn't automatically prove that the underlying explanation is correct. You're describing a cultural shift that you've observed and then attributing motives to the people on either side of it. Why should everyone else accept that interpretation?
>>113433106fix your gut flora dudeyou are cooked
Nyaru would be amazing to cuddle with.And to cuddlefuck.I yearn for the cute brown girl.I am but a humble racist white boy.
>>113432196I don't have an oshi
>>113433206he's untouchable...
>>113433199Weird post.
>>113433010She needs to show cock or I'm considering her a fraud
>>113433185They are manufactured. Talent agencies for idols in Japan select for desperate women who have dreams and are willing to be enslaved for a chance to achieve them, and they tell them "This is who you are now". Some of them are even trained from childhood specifically to be idols. You're also right to point out Hololive which is basically an intermediary between the idol culture of Japan and what we have now
Nyarus nipnops are heart shaped.
>>113432196that's just life. everyone leaves and i just get more and more broken.
Very excited for the Kuu VN
>>113433270i believe this
>>113433193>You're still treating all idol-adjacent VTubing as though it's one uniform system where every performer is being forced into a role against their willI said the exact opposite. Idol culture is like that, and Western VTubing culture allows chuubas to be their own person>Lived experience can explain why someone feels a certain way. It doesn't automatically prove that the underlying explanation is correctYes it does when the question is a matter of culture>Why should everyone else accept that interpretation?That's what the discussion is for
>>113433272https://files.catbox.moe/45qsb1.mp3
https://poal.me/tjfc42https://poal.me/tjfc42https://poal.me/tjfc42https://poal.me/tjfc42https://poal.me/tjfc42
>>113433287>I said the exact oppositeNo, you said>idol culture is the social mechanism by which chuubas are dehumanized and exploitedThat's a much broader claim than "Western VTubing culture is less restrictive">Yes it does when the question is a matter of cultureNo, it explains why people experience a culture a certain way. It doesn't settle whether that experience is representative. There are obviously people who agree with your interpretation, and there are obviously people like Nyaru and Silvi who don't>That's what the discussion is forSure. But "this is my lived experience" and "therefore this is what idol culture objectively is" are still different claims. The fact that we're discussing it is evidence that the interpretation isn't universally shared
>>113433217Your existence is a plague upon us.
>>113433310Really weird post.
>>113433250Yeah, I'm just saying this shit existed in the west too. Probably still does. And I mean I think it's fair for a company to put their resources into someone to expect something in return. Like hololive and Soya would be a good example of that, she didn't really make it outside of Holo, so it's a situation where both parties win. Assuming it's handled fairly, of course. But the enterteinment industry has always been known for being very exploitative regardless of idol-culture. Sadly.
every time I try to type ducks to navigate to da liggy I ALWAYS type dicks first by accident...
>>113433287>>113433193What if.. you two were having sex and.. your oshi watched from the chair
>>113433312The lived experience of culture is the objective reality of it
>>113433378it's called sissy hypno dearie
>>113433309hope their benefits cover the therapy
which ligger is built for age 30+ incels
My ex-wife is still childless... And also she knows lewd english words...https://www.twitch.tv/nekoko88/clip/TiredAmazingKangarooArgieB8-YYvGKLI0JTVcBmKU
>>113433398nyaru
>>113433388>The lived experience of culture is the objective reality of itWhose lived experience? Yours? Nyaru's? Silvi's? Coqui's? The entire reason this conversation exists is because different people experienced the same cultural trends and arrived at different conclusions. If lived experience alone settled the question, there wouldn't be a disagreement in the first place
>>113433416coquis lived experience doesnt matter because its too riddled with drugs and low iq
>>113433272
>>113433416Jarvis, pull up grokipedia for a definitive reading of history so we can declare the winner of this argument
>>113433416There's no question to settle, that's where your folly is. You're trying to find clean, objective fact in the question of "Why is this culture like this and how did it evolve this way?" and as a result you're using a lot of words to say nothing
>>113432196If I told you I was genuinely going to marry her and have children with her would it make you hate me
[-] good bye arguing retads
>>113433272>if i'm ever healthy enough to come back, it'll be here, as vesper.Wouldn't be the first happy comeback story I've seen in these 5-6 years
listen guys... I¨m just gonna say it. if you dislike racism you're not a real gamer
>>113433475Then why are you making arguments at all? If there is no question to settle and no way to distinguish between competing explanations, then all you've really said is that your interpretation is as valid as anyone else'sWhich is fine, but that's a very different position from the one you started with. You're talking about cultural trends as though their causes are self-evident and then objecting when people ask how you arrived at those conclusions
>>113433508Proof of this claim?
>>113433508Only racists are real gamers.
>>113433439This looks like an emo album cover
>>113433516you just replied to benjamin btw
>>113433516>Why discuss something that doesn't have a definitive answer?Very telling of your mental capacity
>>113433483WHERES THE FANSLY VIVI?!
>>113433540Interesting, I didn't ask why people discuss things without definitive answers. People do that all the time. I'm asking why you keep presenting your interpretation as obvious and self-evident while simultaneously insisting that there is no objective answer to be foundYou can't really have it both ways
>>113433527I'll have to trust your word on that.
qrd?
>>113433416>>113433475Aren't you both saying the same thing here? People will assign different values to the same events depending on personal experience and beliefs. I wouldn't say that's nothing. In fact I think it's the most valuable part of a conversation.
>>113433569retardation
>>113433569Two retards fighting.
>>113433569coqui has really saggy balls
Sometimes I worry about chuubas in AUS/NZ but I far from fully grasp the state of those economies
>>113433569i wanna fuck nyaru
>>113433590all i know about NZ is they have some law that prevents companies there from outsourcing unless they can prove the job cant be done by a NZ native
proof?
>>113433590ok?
>>113433569Q-R ON THE DDO DO DO DOQ-R ON THE DRRRRIT DIT DOOQ-R ON THE DDO DO DO DOQ-R ON THE DRRRRIT DIT DOO
>>113433556>I didn't ask why people discuss things without definitive answers>"There's no question to settle">"Then why are you making arguments at all?">I'm asking why you keep presenting your interpretation as obvious and self-evident while simultaneously insisting that there is no objective answer to be foundBecause that's a foundational part of human sentience. If you can't trust and believe in your own lived experience then your existence doesn't matter
>>113433508Real and true. Same thing goes for anime.
>>113433595I bet she has a world class vagina
>>113433636if you like moe you're note a real anime fan
>>113433652
>>113433629Trusting your own experiences and believing that your interpretation of culture is correct are two completely different things. Everyone involved in this discussion trusts their own lived experience. Nyaru does. Silvi does. You doThe disagreement begins when you take that experience and elevate it from "this is how I understand these cultural shifts" to "this is simply how things are"And no, asking why you believe something doesn't imply that your existence doesn't matter. That's exactly the leap I've been talking about this entire conversation
>>113433571One person is arguing because they think it's an own to the other one.
grimmi pig
>>113433388>The subjective is the objectiveWhat is your major malfunction
>>113433687grimmi pig grimmi pig grimmi grimmi grimmi piggrimmi pig grimmi pig grimmi grimmi grimmi piggrimmi pig bridge aaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaahhhh
>>113433665>Trusting your own experiences and believing that your interpretation of culture is correct are two completely different thingsNo they're not
>>113433687much love from peru
Grimmi has done irreperable harm to vtuber culture
I'm the main character. My experience is the one that matters and thus the objective, unshakeable truth. You are all npcs in my game.
I like the French rat
>>113433710What is culture?
>>113433741i posted this
>>113433606That's pretty cool
>>113433741I made this post.
Italian fox love
chicken pasta and vegetable was pretty good today
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=a09hitK7TVU
>>113433741well we should all be the main character of own lives, that's fine I think as long as you don't infringe on others because of it
what ever happened to the grimmi blind bagswhy would you buy a grimmi blind bag
French bunny love
>>113433785It turns out that the grimmi blind bag was her own wallet and she rolled nothing
>>113433613lol nice one
>>113433780Is 170 tall for a lass?
I love the silly lady
>>113433730Then explain why Nyaru and Silvi arrived at different conclusions from you despite having their own lived experiences with the same culture. If trusting your experiences and believing your interpretation are literally the same thing, then what do you make of the fact that multiple people can sincerely experience the same phenomenon and disagree about what it means?Because at that point you're no longer talking about experience. You're talking about interpretation
>>113433744“Wee”
>>113433798Grimmi is a business woman. She's also had success on wall street. She probably has a nice cushy job at the Federal Reserve lined up desu
name my band
>>113433821Normal but tall for a chuuba
God i hate some of you fags
Why do the rat chuubas cosplay as white girls when they're not white irl?
>>113433870God hates all fags
which stream are we jerkin it to?
>>113433886https://www.twitch.tv/hunikinn
Shut up, I’m listening to a shit beat by para
>>113433881Based God.
https://x.com/ENVTubersOOC/status/2076927923840299359
>>113433842You just explained it
that silvi girl is a literal egirl who does nothing but cry for attention and beg for throne gifts and shes out here talking about idol culture. its no wonder people hate idol culture when its filled with grifters like her who just want to have the cake and eat it
>>113433886Para
>>113433880history will not be kind to them if they are actually white facing'
>>1134338802b isn't white she's a robot
>>113433866the chudvengers
>>113433910How so?
>>113432559i kinda miss when i was scared of screamers
But God still loves all hags
I think Nitty is nise!
>>113433914>who just want to have the cake and eat itWhat else are you supposed to do with a cake? Paint the walls with it?
>>113433880>>113433918where do you tourists come in from
>>113433866oh hey it's ai genned html weg kino
>>113433914proto-goro
>>113433866vomit inducing pictures
baking a cake in the shape of para's tail and motorboating it
Barbie love!
>>113433909UOOOOOOH KANI
delivering a cake by boat would be novel
>>113433886BAT
>>113433939I recommend not engaging with moral relativists
>>113433997>novel
>>113433998no one is saying this
>>113433914cry
>>113433998oh like bad at not making me furiously masturbate
>>113433939>If you say that everyone's lived experience is their objective truth then why do Nyaru and Silvi say that their lived experience is their objective truth?Your problem is that you're interpreting the intersections of these lived realities as a debate that can be won, when in reality the intersectional weaving of millions of these individual lives and their experience is culture. That's what culture is
>>113433606I mean the US has that too, you're supposed to only hire an H1B if there are no Americans who can do the job, but people just lie and engage in fraud anywaysLaws only help so much
wait zen is in socks now? am i stupid?
>>113434025Note: the brightness comes from the exploding nukes.
>>113434012so it's not novel I am just unknowing i see
>>113434028Then we're back where we startedYou're describing culture as the aggregate of countless subjective experiences while also insisting that your interpretation of that aggregate is obviously correct. Why?
>>113433826>lady
>>113432804too many western vtuber fans associate vtubing with being an idol, it's an unfortunate result of Hololive becoming more known/popular in the west than other agencies like nijisanji where basically none of the vtubers act like idols or give a fuck about male/female collabs
>>113433741Please protagonist-chan, please marry me. I'm begging you
>>113433870>last supper (all men)>priests can't marry>nuns being relatively new thingI don't know about that
>>113434041From far more powerful forces actually
>>113434055Because that's what being human is
Finland.
liggers for this feel?
why that bitch essie blow up then go on vacation while its hot?is she a stupid ugly bitch?
Niggers!
>>113434086
>>113434085
>>113434081Everyone involved and mentioned in this conversation is human. That doesn't answer the question
>>113434035not she is in SVA
>>113434095do thirdies really not know about vacations? is this another lake
>>113434086Nina 3 years ago
>>113434035Involving the ceo in sexy fanart is the most cucked shit ever
is this a ligger? https://www.twitch.tv/kinkymation
Olivia Monroe please come back please
>>113434081How many genders are there
>>113434095She scheduled the vacation before she went viral and couldn’t cancel since it has already been paid for.
>>113434101freaky ah girl
>>113434113It's not a question that can be answered, you either understand it or you don't. You either trust in yourself and value your own humanity, or you're like Grimmi and you let people define your life and what it means for you
>>113434095low 3view mindsetgeega or shylily would've sent a subathon 24/7 stream after that kind of x engagement
>>113434114okay but is SVA socks vtuber agency or something else
>>113434096erm Essie HATES racism and racists don’t post her like that
>>113434095>>113434146Geega and Shylily work as poop machines outside of VTubing. Essie is a nurse, she needs the vacation
>>113434145So we've gone from "this is how culture works" to "you either understand it or you don't"If your position can't be explained, defended, or even questioned, then it's not really an argument anymore, it's just a belief
roku nana
>>113434139If I speak I am in big trouble
>>113432196I just try not to think about self defeating thoughts like that. At the end of the day, everyone dies alone, regardless of how they lived. So if the end is the same, you may as well make the process of getting there pleasant for you at the very least, and hopefully pleasant for others as wellIf you're the curious type, maybe consider reading about Terror Management Theory. It provides an interesting perspective on meaning and death
>>113434135Why does that name look familiar?
is this a ligger?
>>113434162can't believe they killed essie
why is para so paranoid? no pun intended
>>113432913Most people who "don't know" about that know but just stop thinking about it at some point for one reason or another. I blame vegans
>>113433866Retardopolis
leaflit is the kwebblekop of vtubers
>>113434163You finally figured it out, you've been treating beliefs like objective arguments hoping to find a definitive answer after being confused by people conveying their beliefs in a confident manner. This doesn't make sense to you because you don't hold a belief here, you're just trying to argue for the sake of arguing. You've never had a foothold in this conversation
Allez la France!
denpy cosplay on the timeline day is good again
>>113434162so if one wants to visit Lily's machine, where will that be?
>>113434226And yet you've spent dozens of replies defending that belief, contrasting it with other beliefs, and explaining why you think people like Nyaru and Silvi misunderstand the culture they grew up inYou don't get to spend an entire conversation arguing for a worldview and then suddenly retreat to "it's just my belief" the moment someone asks how you arrived there. The fact that I don't share your belief doesn't mean I "never had a foothold", it means I've been asking you to explain why you hold it
>>113433908Adulterous sex with devout secretaries under dubious consent
>>113434206people die and get doxxed constantlyit's a miracle people aren't all paranoid
>>113434233UUUUUUUUUUU vesper UUUUUUUUUUUU
I'm revisiting the Adora Bunny cancellation and I feel like I'm going completely insane reviewing the drama in retrospect. Pomato / Pomatomaster getting out of that drama with no marks against her name and rarely being brought up is so crazy, because sitting through the hours of calls that Adora ended up posting the main takeaway I'm leaving with is that Pom / Pomato is a complete psychopath. This is necroing year old drama, but I feel like I'm taking crazy pills seeing no one talk about how insane she sounds across multiple calls amongst all the discourse, or representing her as a victim in the process as well. It's so bizarre.
yeehaw
>>113434143holy sunk cost fallacyjust take the L and stream man these girls are dumb
Things will get better. Vesper will get better.Stonksmax. Help her.
>>113434284tits
>>113434288the streak was over anywaygood way to end it
>>113434291
>>113434281I don't know this drama since I'm in and out of 4chan but dramatic events do take time to process if one tries to process them fully instead of forgetting.
mbappy my king
>>113434327Cute! I experienced Morrowind recently it was cool.
Muahammed we will be the forgiving of the Lina if the doing is of a 3d stream once more again!
>>113433866the gigachad owners of lig
ligging ligger anus
I want to become a vtuber just so I can stream heavily modded morrowind
Still depressed as fuck. But this stream is making it slightly better.
who was the harry kane of lig
What if Saiiren gained 20 more pounds?
What do you call Para in a courtroom? Paralegal. Para charting data points. Paragraph. Para jumping from a plane into a warzone. Paratrooper. Para regulating the body’s stress response. Paraventricular. And so on.
>>113434380/vrt/ already has skooma sunday
>>113434405miwa
>>113434380Have a fun and healthy time, Outlanon.
>>113434405batatvideogames
>>113434288Don’t b mean to sheep
>>113434415what about para getting fucked in the ass
liggers with bush?
>>113434380This, but slay the spire 1 and 2.
>>113434382
>>113434249That's what culture is. Do you think anyone has ever come to a definitive conclusion during a conversation like this? That's not the point of them, the point is to collectivize the lived experience into a social framework that represents a group of people with a shared identity. You don't have a lived experience that you've shared regarding VTubers and idols, you've only been questioning why I am engaging in the very idea of culture. You do this because you're just not smart enough to understand it or my words and so you instead engage in the way that you think I'm engaging in by which you say nothing and question everything. But I do say things, you've just been gatekept from that level of conversation and it frustrates you to the point where you attempt to single me out as an act of revenge for reminding you of your own inadequacy
So what is the current status of Filian?
>>113434459vivi, menace, meredith
>>113434479Dead
>>113434479she hit the wall
>>113434373based
who are we rooting for lig?
>>113434479third trimester
>>113434479too fat to flip, too rich to care
>>113434459jets
>>113434281I don't remember Pomato being involved in any drama like that, just the two people with trans-coded huge tit models. I think the other one was named Radia or something
>>113434409Then she would give me a boner
>>113434459
>>113434474>You don't have a lived experience that you've shared regarding VTubers and idolsBecause the conversation stopped being about VTubers and idols twenty replies ago. At some point you abandoned the original topic in favor of explaining why your worldview supposedly exists beyond scrutiny>You do this because you're just not smart enough to understand itAnd yet you've spent the last several posts oscillating between "this is obviously true" and "it can't actually be explained". If my inadequacy is so self-evident, why does it require paragraphs of metaphysics to demonstrate?
>>113434459moff
>>113434492I support France because I love the way French chuubas talk I love and France in General.
>double your Laimu, double your fun
>>113434541You asked those things, that's why the conversation moved away from idol culture to just culture in general. You needed the concept explained to you and even still you don't understand it
>>113434474>You do this because you're just not smartYou lost
>>113434523Never understood how people can enjoy bush
>>113434557But half the team is from Nitty land.
>>113434479Nailif
>>113434588No, I understand the concept of culture. The disagreement is that you're treating "culture is formed from lived experiences" as if it means "individual interpretations of culture cannot be questioned"Those are different things. People can share experiences, form a social framework around them, and still disagree about what those experiences meanThat's not rejecting culture. That's how culture changes
>>113434598Okay but I don’t know of any Spanish chuubas???
>>113434595it's performative sexuality from safehorny zoomgroids
>>113434594How did I lose?
https://jiggie.fun/Liggie
>>113434492i just hope france loses (i don't hate saru or para, i just hate the bantu team)
>>113434617does anyone who's not a pedochud use the term safehorny?
>>113434595Skill issue.
>>113434459NOT Ecto
>bat played monster hunter>Proof? Evidence? Source?>nigga google it>Google what? What argument are you trying to make? You're so bad at debating, I am the master of logic. See how your facade crumbles before my incisive questioning
>>113434492france
>>113434459Meat is a cavewoman
>>113434613Not by yourself, no they can't be questioned. Not believing in what you experienced makes you a hylic
>>113434668imagine the smell
i forgive batko
>>113434655>Bat played Monster Hunter all week>erm proof? when? evidence?>she played it Mon, Tues, Wed and Thurs>ok, but what about Sun Fri and Sat?! see, she BARELY plays it so you making this crazy generalization about her playtimes based on a tiny 4 examples doesn't PROVE anything!
>>113434459Meat
Sometimes I wish this place was a room with all participants actually being present. I would go to those two nerds who have been arguing for half the thread over nothing and give them atomic wedgies that would make Oppenheimer turn in his grave.
>>113434676Then what is the point of conversation? If nobody can question your interpretation of your own experiences, then nobody can ever challenge any cultural belief because every person can simply say "this is what I experienced". Your experience is yours. Your interpretation of it is still something other people can disagree with
>>113434655Ohhhhhh like bat at monster hunter
Why is half of my followed vtubers playing Palworld? Wasn't the game canceled by Nintendo?
>>113434492france (for para)
>>113434655>>113434685Why do you post like rin falseflagging
>>113434700You read it wrong. You can't distrust your own lived experience
>>113434513Which is exactly why I'm so confused. There are hours I've sat through where she is the most angry, most loud in all of the leaked calls - and no one remembers. It's so strange she got away unscathed.
>>113434698>Fantasizing about violence against people on the Internet over petty grievancesKrimbo moment
>>113434724Nobody is saying you should. The disagreement is whether your lived experience automatically gives you the correct explanation for why something happenedYou can trust that you experienced something. That doesn't mean everyone else has to accept your interpretation of that experience without question
>>113434724That doesn't make them correct
If your oshi actively cheered against her home nation would you still like her
I jerked off to the AICandii RTX from the vchiban group photo
>>113434707it finally reached version 1.0 or something like that
>>113434741You don't get a wedgie, you gonna see the dumpster from the inside.
>>113434683I enjoy suko's streams but in all honesty I struggle to understand how someone as hot as her ended up as a girlfailure
>>113434769autism (actual)
>>113434683Why doesn't she have a butt? Where is her butt?
>>113434744Smart enough people would have the correct explanation. And like I said earlier, the intersections between the lived experiences of individuals is what culture is>>113434745Yes it does
>>113434492Whoever watches my VODs.
>>113434757no, because she doesn't stream
>>113434741Would you prefer I shove you inside a locker or I give you a swirly?
>113434796so nobody?
>>113434800Imagine how obnoxious she would be on Meccha Chameleon collabs
>>113434804I'd prefer you to move on to an act of political violence so we don't have to listen to you whine anymore
>>113434794No, that doesn't follow. People being smart, sincere, or having shared experiences doesn't make every conclusion they draw from those experiences automatically correctCulture is built from people's experiences, yes. But the meaning people assign to those experiences is still something people can disagree about. Two groups can live through the same cultural change, understand it differently, and both be participating in the culture that comes from it
>>113434459most of them
>>113434459grimmi
>>113434707I think the Nintendo lawsuits got dropped cause they were ridiculous. I also heard gossip they lost some patents in the process but I don't know how true that last part is
>>113434479playing league of legends
>>113434698you wouldnt do shit punk bitch i will literally kill u i am 6'7 gigachad. pic related, me and my bitch
>>113434698very telling that you'd choose a picture where the bully is black and the nerd is a nebbish white boy
>>113434824Yes it does because it's their own life.>But the meaning people assign to those experiences is still something people can disagree aboutI just said that
>nina is palying super mario galaxy>retro categorysay it ain't so
>>113434595running your hands through your oshis bush while kissing her
>>113434841computer, generate this
>>113434794So if my experience of you through this conversation makes me believe you're a giant faggot does that mean objectively you are a giant faggot? This sounds like nominalism
>>113434586imagine two fat laimus hugging you
>>113434812Actually rin watched my VODs.
>>113434763Really? Nice! Then I have something to play
>>113434783Is she legitimately (diagnosed) autistic? The word gets thrown around so much nowadays I can't tell who is and who isn't
>>113434861
>>113434860Yes, and that's the distinction. Someone's interpretation is real *to them* because it comes from their own lifeThat doesn't mean another person is obligated to accept that interpretation as the only correct explanation of the culture as a whole. You can acknowledge that someone's experience is valid without treating every conclusion drawn from it as beyond disagreement
I miss Vei...
>>113434854who is the guy with you
>>113434884I am turning to dust
Bat is probably hairy as fuck
bake the fucking bread
>>113434881no, I don't think she has ever even called herself autistic but she's very clearly on the spectrum
>>113434868It means that your objective experience of my faggotry is part of the aggregate that makes up our culture>>113434885>That doesn't mean another person is obligated to accept that interpretationYes it does and you admit it in the very next sentence
oh like good at baking>>113434900>>113434900>>113434900
>>113434897>Filian is just copying VeiIt just dawned on me...
>>113434707They must be doing some kind of stealth sponsorship. There's no way so many streamers would bring out a dead game AND add "1.0" to the title. That's a sponsorslop title detail.
>>113434917No, I didn't. I said their experience is valid. I didn't say every conclusion someone draws from that experience becomes an objective factThe fact that your experience of me contributes to your understanding of this interaction doesn't mean "I am objectively a giant faggot" becomes a settled fact. It means that your perception exists as part of your experience
>>113434950I didn't say that either, I said that an individual's lived experience is an objective reality and you agreed
>>113434718you felt made fun of and he owns you by a lot
>>113434923Vei gave birth in June though
>>113434970No, I agreed that an individual's lived experience is realThat is not the same as agreeing that every interpretation or conclusion drawn from that experience is objectively correct. Your experience of something happening is a fact about your perspective. The meaning you assign to it is where disagreement begins
>>113434492I wait for essie to tell me
>>113434948It is a very popular game
>>113435001It is the same
>>113435011How is it the same?
>>113435028Because things happen to people and they happen for a reason and their reasoning for why things happen is based on the culture around them
>>113435051Because something has a reason doesn't mean the reason someone assigns to it is necessarily the correct onePeople interpret events through the culture around them, but cultures themselves are made up of people with competing interpretations. That's why different people can experience the same event and come away with different explanations
113434989Lmao it was him lol what a loser
>>113435089And the culture is created from the aggregate of the lived experiences of people in that culture, and the existing culture shapes the thoughts and reasoning of the people with in it. You're starting to understand now
>>113435119Yes, culture influences how people interpret their experiences. That still doesn't mean the interpretation becomes automatically correctYou're describing a feedback loop: people create culture, and culture shapes people. I agree with that. The part you're skipping is that feedback loops can produce different interpretations of the same reality. That's why cultures change in the first place
>>113435134I didn't skip anything, you just misunderstand what aggregate means here
>>113435168Then explain what you mean by aggregate. Because if you mean "the collection of all lived experiences that make up a culture" I agree. The disagreement is whether that collection automatically produces one objectively correct interpretation of those experiencesA collection of perspectives can describe a culture without every individual perspective within it becoming an unquestionable fact
>>113435198>The disagreement is whether that collection automatically produces one objectively correct interpretation of those experiencesNo one ever said it does, but an individual needs to believe their lived experience is objectively correct in order to be considered, otherwise you're just a coquinut
>>113434718I wonder what's worse: it being the same one person or there being multiple people who use those methods.
>>113435210Then we're talking about two different things. Someone can treat their own lived experience as real and meaningful without believing their interpretation is infallible. The fact that someone considers their own perspective doesn't require them to believe everyone else is wrong
>>113435222Yes it does
>>113435225How so?
It's amazing what just filtering the word Grimmi can spare you from
>>113435217The latter
>>113435243If you don't trust yourself then you're not a real human being
>>113435258Trusting yourself and believing every interpretation you make is correct are not the same thing. A person can trust their own experiences while still recognizing that they are limited to their own perspectiveQuestioning yourself isn't a rejection of your humanity
>>113434769Imagine trying to pick something up that begins displaying behaviors that make it hard to keep holding. Another person can only carry so much. Plenty of people considered attractive have trouble come their way too and end up with various isolating behaviors as a result. Can even sprinkle on some body dysphoria even if a person doesn't voice those thoughts often.
>>113435269Yes they are and yes it is when it comes to your own lived experience. >The Party told you to reject the evidence of your eyes and ears. It was their final, most essential command
>>113435291No, that quote is about rejecting reality in favor of an external authority.That is not the same as acknowledging that your perception is shaped by your own perspective. Your eyes and ears tell you what you experienced. They don't automatically tell you the complete explanation for why it happened
>>113435313Allowing someone to assert what your lived experience was is rejecting your own reality in favor of external authority
>>113435330Nobody is asserting what your lived experience was. You experienced what you experiencedThe disagreement is over what conclusions you draw from that experience. Saying "I don't think your interpretation is correct" is not the same as saying "your experience didn't happen"
>>113435351Yes it is
>>113435363How so?
>>113435373Because denying why something happened to someone is a rejection of their lived experience. People do it all the time in order to make stories they hear align with their own political beliefs
>>113435395No, those are still two separate things. Someone can acknowledge that something happened to you and that your reaction to it is real while disagreeing with your explanation for why it happenedIf someone says "I experienced X because of Y", and another person says "I believe X happened, but I think the cause was Z" they are not denying the experience, they're disagreeing about the interpretation
>>113435417They're not separate
>>113435431How are they not separate?
>>113435395Do you think people can be tricked into believing lies? If so how do you reconcile believing their experience of the lie being treated as fact with what is true
>>113435447Because denying why something happened to someone is a rejection of their lived experience
>>113435454No, those are still two separate things. Someone can acknowledge that something happened to you and that your reaction to it is real while disagreeing with your explanation for why it happened
>>113435453If they let someone else's lies become their truth then that's a renunciation of their own humanity. There are people like that like Grimmi and Coqui>>113435473It's not "your explanation" it's just what happened
>>113435496>If they let someone else's lies become their truth then that's a renunciation of their own humanityThen you already acknowledge that people can misinterpret events. The question is how you distinguish "my lived experience" from "my explanation of my lived experience">It's not "your explanation" it's just what happenedThat is exactly the point of disagreement. You are treating the cause as part of the experience itself. Other people separate the event from the interpretation of the event
>>113435531>You are treating the cause as part of the experience itselfIt is
>>113435574How so?
>>113435586Because "Why" is one of the five Ws
>>113435618Asking "why" doesn't mean the answer is automatically contained in the event itself. The five Ws are questions used to understand an event. The fact that "why" is one of them doesn't mean every person's answer to that question is objectively the event itself
>>113435641Yes it does. The five Ws are the cornerstones of a story. The lived experience is the story of someone's life
>>113435672A story can include someone's understanding of why something happened, but that doesn't mean every explanation within a story is objectively true. People tell stories about their own lives all the time. Those stories are meaningful and reveal how they understand themselves and the world around themBut two people can tell different stories about the same event without one of them denying that the event happened
>>113435709It is true when the story is their own life
>>113435742How so?
>>113435769This has been covered already. If you can't understand it at this point I can't really help you
>>113435810I accept your concession of defeat
>>113435825I didn't rescind my beliefs, I just said I can't tutor you any further
>>113435496By giving examples, you’re being a hypocrite because you didn’t live their experience. You’re whole logic is flawed and you’re being a contrarian for the sake of being one.
>>113436273Grimmi and Coqui both famously have let other people think for them, Grimmi with Seth and Coqui with Krimbo
>>113436301You’re just further proving your argument is invalid.
>>113436389There's no argument here, it's a sharing of beliefs in pursuit of weaving the fabric of our culture
>>113436389Stop arguing with the sophist
