Dear Godtards: can you give me a precise definition of heaven? If you can, please let me know how you know. If you can't, why would you sign up to a deal when you don't even know what you will be getting?
>>42461623Belief+No Heaven= ehNo Belief+Heaven= HellIt Really seems like an insurance policy more than a religion at times.Most "Good Christians" I come across are very materialistic, Lustful, and devious of empathy to anyone on a lower rung of society...hell, anyone who looks slightly dirty.Probably just use the church to "wash away" their sins and fill the plate again until they feel the guilt of their actions.It's all very mid.
>>42461623Assuming this is not a bait thread you're attacking a bastardized version of Christ. If you take the literal words of Jesus Christ as the only thing that matters you'll find he's actually kind of gnostic. He said "The kingdom of heaven is at hand" I would high recommend watching Zizek's "Christian Atheism" on YouTube. When Christ is metaphysically crying out to God while being crucified "Why have you foresaken me" none of it is really not about the afterlife whatsoever.
>>42461939>Most "Good Christians" I come across are very materialistic, Lustful, and devious of empathy to anyone on a lower rung of society...hell, anyone who looks slightly dirty.>Probably just use the church to "wash away" their sins and fill the plate again until they feel the guilt of their actions.>It's all very mid.This.I started noticing it 30 years ago myself. The discrepancy between what they profess and what they do.Goddamn christians fancy themselves oh-so pious and spiritual.Your average unwashed neet who just contemplates philosophy, watches isekai anime all day and harms no one has a 10000X better chance of entering heaven* than those worldly cretins fraudulently calling themselves christians. ... With the possible exception of the amish, maybe.*real heaven, not the infantilized biblical portrayal of it
>>42461623>why would you sign up to a deal when you don't even know what you will be getting?From what I understand it's like a bet. Their reasoning is that they don't lose anything by subscriing to christianity even if it is a lie, but if it is the truth then they are saved. It's a bet kind of situation.
>>42461623>how did the modern concept of heaven emerge from belief it was in the sky?The evolution of "heaven" from a literal sky location to a spiritual realm is a fascinating journey through ancient cosmology, theology, and philosophy.**Early Sky Religion (3000–500 BCE)**Most ancient cultures placed their gods literally overhead. In Mesopotamia, the sky god Anu ruled from above; in Egypt, the sky goddess Nut arched over the earth. The Hebrew word *shamayim* (usually translated "heaven") simply meant "the skies" — the same word used for the dome where birds fly and where rain falls. The gods lived on mountaintops or above the firmament, the solid vault ancient peoples imagined held the waters above the world. This wasn't metaphor; it was cosmology.**The Firmament Model**Ancient Near Eastern peoples pictured the cosmos as tiered: earth in the middle, waters below (the deep), and a solid dome above with waters beyond it. Heaven was simply *above the dome* — where God or the gods literally resided. Genesis reflects this model, with God separating upper waters from lower waters. Height equaled power and holiness, which is why temples, ziggurats, and altars were built on elevated ground.**The Greek Philosophical Shift**Greek thought introduced a crucial transformation. Plato distinguished between the material world (impermanent, corrupt) and a higher realm of perfect *Forms* — pure, eternal, immaterial. This gave "above" a philosophical rather than merely physical meaning. Heaven started becoming less of a *place up there* and more of a *mode of existence* beyond the physical. Aristotle's model of concentric celestial spheres, each more perfect as you moved outward, reinforced the idea that "higher" = "more divine."**Second Temple Judaism and Apocalyptic Literature**
>>42462061Around 300–100 BCE, Jewish texts began multiplying the heavens — 3, 7, even 10 heavens stacked above each other (Paul references being caught up to the "third heaven" in 2 Corinthians). This reflected both Persian influence and growing cosmological sophistication. Heaven was becoming a layered spiritual hierarchy, not just the sky. The souls of the righteous, angels, and God himself occupied distinct levels.**Early Christianity's Synthesis**Christianity inherited this multi-layered Jewish cosmology and blended it with Greek Platonic ideas. Heaven was increasingly described as a *spiritual state* of communion with God — not just a location. The resurrection body would be transformed, not merely relocated. Origen (3rd century CE) pushed strongly toward a non-spatial heaven; Augustine later emphasized that God exists outside space and time entirely, so "heaven" couldn't be a physical place in the old sense.**The Medieval Crystallization**Medieval Christian theology, especially through Aquinas and Dante, produced the most elaborate synthesis: Ptolemaic spheres mapped onto spiritual hierarchy, with the *Empyrean* (pure light, beyond space) as the ultimate dwelling of God. Dante's *Commedia* is essentially the last great work where physical cosmology and spiritual cosmology are still the same map. Heaven is both above and transcendent.**The Copernican Rupture**When Copernicus (1543) and later Galileo dismantled the Earth-centered cosmos, they inadvertently demolished the old heavenly geography. There was no longer a "up" beyond the spheres. Heaven couldn't be *literally* above anymore. This forced a decisive theological shift — heaven had to be fully reinterpreted as a non-spatial, purely spiritual condition or dimension of reality. The physical sky was emptied of divine residency.
>>42462066**The Modern Concept**By the 18th–19th centuries, heaven had largely completed its migration from *place* to *state* in mainstream theology — a condition of perfect union with God, outside normal space and time entirely. Some traditions retained more physical imagery (a restored earth, bodily resurrection in a transformed cosmos), while others moved toward pure spiritual existence. Popular belief, interestingly, often kept more concrete imagery (clouds, gates, reunions with the dead) long after formal theology had abstracted it away.The arc, then, is: **literal sky divine realm above the sky layered spiritual cosmos non-spatial transcendent state** — driven by cosmological discovery, philosophical influence, and the internal logic of each tradition wrestling with what "God's dwelling" could possibly mean.
>>42462038Immature Christians literally think God's 'mercy' to save you from Eternal Hell is predicated on doing certain rites (like baptism) and following certain codes (like heterosexuality and not saying the lord's name in vain) and/or (depending if catholic or protestant) having certain specific beliefs like believing that your belief in jesus saves you because he was killed for your sins and rose again, or somethingPic related is a very relevant book to this whole discussion (Moody studied Near Death Experiences where people got close to death and got glimpses of the afterlfie)
Antichrist New Word Order will failhttps://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZLmvaNYZsJA&t=3s
>>42461623Participation in the divine nature. Becoming gods by grace. It’s that simple.
>>42462090Christian old world order is rotting from the inside out in public. In 8k smellovision.
>>42462061>>42462066>>42462068why spam the thread with GPT paragraph garbage?
>>42461623>can you give me a precise definition of heaven?Which ones?The material realms of luxury or God's realm?We can determine more specifically from there.
Okay hotshot, for one, jesus literally already returned in 70 ad and had a 1000 year millenial kingdom. What do you think tartaria was? What do you think the byzantine empire was? We're currently in satans little season waiting for saturn's new jerusalem hypercube to descend. Secondly, heaven is pretty clearly described in the bible. It's an evil and horrible physical place where you'll be stripped of freewill and forced into endless servitude and saturn worship disguised as some kind of wonderful end of your soul's journey(the journey isn't supposed to end).
>>42461623Your imagination is real. The kindom of heaven is is perfect love applied to life. When you imagine such a world, that's just a shadow of what paradise will be.
>>42463388You're talking about the kingdom of god, NOT the kingdom of heaven. Two different things, kingdom of heaven is Saturn's domain, the kingdom of god is your direct connection to the true divine. Why does LITERALLY everyone on this board mix these up?!?!?!?!?!?!??!?!?!?!?!?!?
>>42461623>definitionThe kingdom of heaven is earth in the future.We will be inhabiting it after the resurrection of the dead.We the church (Christian's) are currently building it.>picrelated Jesus returned in 70ADThe majority of Revelation already happened >Revelation 17:9Here is the mind which has wisdom. The seven heads are seven mountains on which the woman sits>seven mountains as in Rome the city built on seven mountains/hills>Revelation 17:18 And the woman whom you saw is the great city, which has a kingdom over the kings of the earth.”>The whore represents a citythat being Jerusalem
>>42461623the length of time is not arbitrary. From Adam -> Moses 2000 yrsMoses -> Jesus 2000 yrs Jesus -> Millennium Reign 2000 yrs (2033)Y'all better repent cuz 2033-7 is 2026. Shit on the world stage is preparing for this, the elites know the rapture is coming. Don't take the mark of the beast.
>>42461977source: atheist youtuber ok bud, you might actually be retarded. All atheists are either degenerates or idiots with defective programming, nothing can't create everything because it's literally nothing.
>>42463394It's all in your head. You were stable before you went down these rabbit holes. All you had to do was keep your mind the way it was from when you were a little kid.
>>42463464I'm not an atheist, you cannot read and project your retardation onto me
>>42463561No dude! I'm saying that you're misquoting the bible. Nowhere in the bible does it say the kingdom of heaven is within you. It says Kingdom of GOD. I'm pointing out that you, along with damn near everyone on this board, constantly misquotes that verse. The kingdom of heaven refers to an actual place.
>>42463729Matthew 13:31 He set another parable before them, saying, “The Kingdom of Heaven is like a grain of mustard seed which a man took, and sowed in his field, 32 which indeed is smaller than all seeds. But when it is grown, it is greater than the herbs and becomes a tree, so that the birds of the air come and lodge in its branches.”Mathew 13:33 He spoke another parable to them. “The Kingdom of Heaven is like yeast which a woman took and hid in three measures of meal, until it was all leavened.”Do these parables represent something that's already established, or growing until it's done?We know there's a heaven present alongside and above the earth. But the present heaven and earth, even all the planets and stars, will be destroyed into oblivion.The seed and the yeast which God inspires in us is our plan for the next world.
>>42461623I don't think there's a Heaven bro. For Heaven to be real, there must be pain on it, or Hell would be painless aswell.
>>42463786There is pain in heaven. Your emotions and intuition aren't attatched to your body, but they effect your heart.
>>42461623>he thinks its all for a transactionngmi
>>42461623Heaven is impossibly super easy to define precisely.The golden rule becomes absolute categorical imperative globally, everyone realizes its better for themselves and acts accordingly.The world that follows from this is almost unimaginable in its efficiency
>>42463311i've been considering this a lot more recently
>>42461623~SouL Vort3X~
>>42461939yes, American Protestants are all psycho shitheads that "believe" in God as a justification to keep being awful
>>42465498sure is when your lord and savior was abducted by harpies and never heard from since.
>>42461623Satanist gaytheist synagogue building nasa d faggot Jewish fremaosnic lies against Christ mossady lekem mkultra fake moon rocks all Jews and freemasons nee to be killed nxvik finders cult oss bolshevik Jewish synagogue building newsflash joseph Jews deustche khalist inside out liars protocols spewing shit
>>42461623Wrong Satan cambridge. University ea not teach your jew nigger shit
>>42461939Heaven exist spiritual world hell exist Christ explained that on that s flat earth ad Christ real appearance in Egyp t fake moon rocks your tbn cbn lies and ewtn marxism nodqlvarion outside the catholic faith all nasa fas go to helaobert kike pikee bullshit artists
>>42461623Dude open your eyeballs inspect reality space is fake and gt worse than Enron and madotf nas is ati Christ psycho by inbred dumb senseless lying assholes paper weights Minecraft bastard on was the earth is flat raeto west big lies org satanic gay pedo anti Christ jewmocracy masonic republic atomic energy s fake space is fake nukes are fake nfat moon rocks
>>42461623Wrong Satan not what's said vulgate judge of dead astral plane etc final judgement not that you stupid dude get off the internet 2000 people saw christ in mexico apparitions he healed you are communist Judas goated false churches
>>42461623Get of the internet stop lying and doing judeo freemasonic Hitler was really right ad not good enough get your anti christ stupid lying asses of the internet stupid bitch you illiterate judaizing coj sucking
>>42461623>AnonymousZoroaster was a catholic priest defrocked catholicma he originally taught and was right earth flat 7 sacraments resurrection in the realm of dead
>>42461623>can you give me a precise definition of heaven?Precise? Not really. In fact, when we talk about "going to Heaven", biblically that refers not to the final / eternal destination of anyone, but rather the intermediate state between now and the parousia. We know very little about it, beyond that for believers, they are "with Christ" in that intermediate period in some sense (Philippians 1:23). The eternal state of the righteous will be partaking in the new creation, with a resurrected body, where they will suffer no more. The wicked will be destroyed, and will not share in the new creation.>If you can, please let me know how you know.I believe that the canonical Gospels are generally reliable (due to e.g. onomastic evidence for the Synoptics and archaeological evidence for John) and based on eyewitness testimony to what Jesus said. I trust Jesus as an authority on this, both because I have found His moral teachings to be true in a real sense in my life and because I believe through an assortment of evidence and argumentation, beginning from broader theistic arguments like fine-tuning and psycho-physical harmony to directly examining the initial "Big Bang" of Christianity (not just the resurrection, but also the exaltation of Jesus as YHWH in the flesh immediately by the earliest believers, and the sudden conversion of Paul via a sensory experience), that Jesus Christ truly rose from the dead on the third day, overcoming death, sin, and Satan through his work, and taking our place to do what no other mortal could. >If you can't, why would you sign up to a deal when you don't even know what you will be getting?Christianity is not about "going to heaven."
>>42461623Not gyhtist inbred bot not.latin
>>42462038No fake moon rocks you ar demon pile of inbred nigger shit
>>42462061More intbrednPlato wasa retarded and condemned dumbass dud this bots more marxist heretics apaotate no gger ass Islam Hindus Buchanan Scottish rite Plato is not apart Aristotle was right the aristotle judeo freemasonic gay false teachers af not t legit priests are not authentic stupid
>>42462061There is not your umb cock sucking dumb it's ad af bc
