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>>42554691
Previous thread(s):
https://archive.4plebs.org/x/thread/42462737/
https://archive.4plebs.org/x/thread/42438154/#42438154
https://archive.4plebs.org/x/thread/42480048/#42480048

I am fascinated by the similarities and links between Evangelical Pentecostalism, Voodoo, and those "light language" videos online.

Not exactly what you're talking about, probably, but this seemed like the thread.

Any one hear of the prophets. The ones from revelation 11. They go two by two per area? District?

What exactly is the difference between good and bad magic, anyway? Perhaps the question itself sounds un-Christian, but all I mean is if I pursue a supernatural ability just because I want it am I being Simon Magus? Is Sainthood and increasing closeness to God the only righteous way to earn abilities beyond what flesh provides?

>>42554741
Based.

>>42554741
It's part of it
In the end those are all "speaking in tongues" and spirit possesion, in vudou they have their lwo/lwa (don't remember) spirits who can posses someone during a ceremony, like how pentecostals want to be filled by the Holy Spirit
These traditions didn't exist in Medieval Christianity, they started with Enthusiasm present in some protestant groups, and through contact eith indigenous religions like the ones in Africa
>>42555413
Intent is part of it, like with practice, for example any magic dealing with demons is of course taboo
Replace the word magic with miracle, would it make sense to want to cause miracle because "you want to"? Miracles are a result of sanctify, saint produce miracles, not people who want to do them

>>42554741
You could probably list Franciscans and Carmelites too, although they are much more discreet (speaking Latin probably does that to you lol).
Voodoo/voudun/hoodoo probably wouldn't have developed if they had no contact with real, unadulterated, Catholicism... each day passes I gain more appreciation for Orthodox bros as they did not self-mutilate in order to win a pissing contest with Calvinists... also Orthodox priests always seem cheerful and they love watching movies (a vice I also have), meanwhile Catholi priests are like "hmm yeah I watched a movie... it was 1972... or 1973... can't recall what year"
Anyway I'm rambling, I guess I'm just happy that /ceg/ is online again.
May the Lord be with you

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KJwCytcVHFU

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I had this dream that looked a lot like this picture over 16 years ago, I ain't going to lie it bothers me to this day

>>42556498
>>42557368
>>42557372

What are you trying to do here

https://www.youtube.com/shorts/T8oEXPF9Uvs
https://www.youtube.com/shorts/V1beyQ6BAK4
https://www.youtube.com/shorts/34ef_Xc0grQ

https://medium.com/@danharms_29771/review-the-enchiridion-paul-summers-young-edition-5fe8cd3ea57c
https://danharms.wordpress.com/2011/08/25/on-the-shelf-review-crossed-keys/

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https://thavmapub.com/2026/06/16/rethinking-words-magic-esoteric-occult-and-mystical/

>>42557031
NTA, but because of people answering my questions in these threads I started going to an Orthodox Church and it's been a great experience so far. So glad to see CEG is back. wew lad

Compel yourself in the name of Lord Jesus Christ to do everything perfectly. You will only most likely have to concern yourself with on judgement day not lying to God about what you have done before baptized or before compelling yourself.

Hi all, I want to get into Christian magic if that's a thing.
I admittedly haven't read the bible. So that's probably a good start. Any recommendations for translations? How many books should I read and what order? Or is it just the old and New Testament I need to worry about?
Thank you for your patience and input.

>>42559673
That's good to hear
>>42559771
The Bible is a collection of books, the Old Testament are all the books before Jesus, the New the ones after him
Either start at Genesis the first book, or start at the New Testament with the Gospel of Mark, the former is what most do then lose interest, usually after the story of Moses

I am sad that people don't read the Bible in Church, like they used to back in the time of manuscripts (and when not everybody knew how to read). That must have been cool. Just curl up in a corner and listen.

>>42554691
If YHVH was originally worshipped as a storm god, and if the caanite YHVH is equivalent to Jupiter/Zeus, and if Jupiter is Wisdom/the mind/expansion, and if YHVH is God comprehended through the human mind, and also if Enoch (a man) ascended to become metatron (the lesser YHVH), is metatron basically the caanite/storm/sky-father YHVH (that is the universal mind that comprehends God)?

Can we basically say metatron is Zeus?

>>42560626
I have no idea. The most respectful discussion about angels, demons, and saints I found in the Lord of Spirits podcast hosted by two Orthodox priests from the USA. You can ask them by email or voice mail or even call-in live...
They single-handedly made me "make peace" with Orthodoxy... and your questiom seems right up their alley.

I couldn't find a dedicated Christian or Eastern Orthodox thread on /lit/ or /his/, so I'll ask here.
What's the cheapest way to get a full set of the texts for the Eastern Orthodox divine office? Would it be to get the texts from the Melkites?

>>42554691
FUCK YOU FALSE CHRISTIAN DEMON.
BURN IN HELL FOR ETERNITY.
DESIGNATED LOSER.

I am pretty sure that much of it is Platonized Homer, as in, the entire document is inspired by the Republic's discussion about censoring and rewriting poetry to produce an ideal society.

An interesting quick example is the Ransom of Hector. For context, Priam is a foreign king of Troy, and his firstborn son, Hector, has been killed by Achilles.
>Swift Achilles finished. Then, jumping up, he killed a white-fleeced sheep. His companions skinned it, then prepared the meat, slicing it skilfully and putting it on spits. They cooked it carefully, then pulled spits from the pieces. Taking bread, Automedon set it in fine baskets on the table.
A meal of SHEEP and BREAD
>Old man, you’re not expecting any harm, as you sleep like this among your enemies, since Achilles spared your life.
>Hermes spoke. At his words, the old man grew afraid. He woke up the herald. Hermes harnessed mules and horses, then guided them himself quickly through the camp, attracting no attention.
Despite the meal, QUICK ESCAPE DUE TO DANGER
>But when they reached the ford
across the swirling river Xanthus,
>She saw her father standing in his chariot, together with his herald, the town crier. In the mule cart she saw the corpse lying on the bier. With a scream, Cassandra cried out to all the city:
Escape means CROSSING A RIVER WITH DIVINE HELP. Afterwards, a female prophetess sings.

The main Platonic censorship motif here is from Republic III
>Neither will we believe or acknowledge Achilles himself to have been such a lover of money that he took Agamemnon's gifts, or that when he had received payment he restored the dead body of Hector, but that without payment he was unwilling to do so.

Moses does not return the body of the Foreign King's Dead Firstborn, nor does he dishonor it. It just isn't a factor. Yet, the transfer of gold from the party that suffered death to the party associated with the killing does happen, with the Hebrews taking Egyptian gold with them.

>>42560892
>It
The Pentateuch, rather. Bad edit on my part. I have mostly lost motivation to work on the project, given my inability to get meaningful academic or interested layperson attention, but this is a rabbit hole anyone interested can go down. For example, the entire Exodus narrative is a play on the Allegory of the Cave, complete with chained prisoners, fire associated with speaking and a difficult ascent upwards towards the light.

The Pentateuch as we know it was likely composed at the Library of Alexandria by a student well-educated in Plato and greek poetry, and its purpose was to manifest Israel as the Republic.

>>42560901
BETA FAGGOT.
OVERTHINKING DEMON.
DESIGNATED LOSER.
BURN IN HELL.

>>42560901
Interesting. I won't subscribe to it, but you reminded me of the changing of the names of rival heroes, kings, or tribes (in order to humiliate them), which is a sad fact. Without the Essenes and Jesus probably the Bible probably wouldn't have survived for long...

>>42560626
The God of the Bible wasn't originally a storm god, that's a hypothesis based on some lines in the Old Testament, there is no other evidence and the origin of YHWH is a mystery, Baal Hadad is the strom god of the Canaanites, whereas God tells Moses that before he revealed himself to Moses as YHWH, he revealed himself to those before him (Abraham, Issac, Jacob) as El Elyon, God most hight
Enoch isn't Metatron, that's a later Jewish tradition postdating Christianity and comes from 3 Enoch, Metatron as a concept is supposed to compete with and be a """Jewish Jesus"""

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I'm glad to see this thread back on the catalog. I look forward to seeing it here as the summer solstice and the Nativity of Saint John the Baptist approach.

Bump

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Is anyone here familiar with the IDMR?
https://idmr.net/

>>42564987
No. Interesting diagram but man kinda gets lost in it. Many such cases. I love thinking so I can reconize somebody who thinks so much (especially with limited data). Humility is not an obligation, it's a priviledge.

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sometimes when i'm done with a really intense prayer session i throw up and it feels really embarrassing.

>>42566728
Do you really want to throw up? The ratio human-to-jeet across all boards is probably less than 1:100

>>42555413
God is the source of all goodness, so white magic happens naturally when you align yourself to the will of God. When you do daily prayers, Psalms and virtuous works, you will see God working in your life and mini-miracles. Your spiritual awareness may increase so that you realize the presence of angels after your prayers that are working small daily blessings into your life.
Sometimes it is good for the soul to go through trials and sufferings, so its not going to look like ego-based winnings, but more like spreading love, peace and goodness into the lifes of those you interact with.

Black magic draws its power from infernal sources and work again the Divine Will.

The closer you draw to God with prayers and scripture studies, the more your material desires will be stripped away, and as you taste the sweetness of heaven, you will seek only heaven, thus destroying any desires for black magic. You will realize that God provides exactly what is good for you, and most often that is a life of simplicity.

Spiritual powers like clairvoyance will open naturally as you continue on your spiritual path - but God gives you only what is good rather than giving an ego satisfying blessing that would lead to spiritual retrogradation

Philokalia: It is easier to attain the things that are good for the soul, such as poverty and humility and celibacy, than the things that are bad for the soul such as wealth, honor and fornication

>>42567719
what are you talking about? i'm saying that I did, not that i wanted to.

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>>42560626
I dont agree with most of your correspondences.
Shabtai = Saturn, whereas Shabbat is Saturn's holy day.

Metratron is an angel which is different from a planetary deity. For example there many be billions of angels of Saturn forming many different communities, and Metratron would be the name of one community.

Zues which is Jupiter/Indra, does not have the same energies as Metratron, which has white light energy of the akasha or perhaps Keter.

>>42569392
Seems like you are one of them alright.

>>42569675
imagine being a gentile and being racist
you stupid or something?

>>42569344
>le poverty is le good
>le sexlessness is le good
If everyone was in poverty and sexless, humanity would *go extinct*, so no, those are not "good for the soul".

>>42570131
Have you read the Bible at all, or any of the writings of the saints?

Or maybe you're an easy believer protestant boomer addicted to greed and lust, who thinks that these are the epitome of life

>>42570131
1. Poverty doesn't actually mean lacking ownership over property, it means more strictly not being attached to your property. (Of course, there are examples of poverty being taken to the extreme, such as in St. Francis of Assisi)

2. Celibacy doesn't mean never having sex ever in your entire life, it means having the discipline to not fall in to lust for recreational sex outside marriage. (Again, there is examples of Chastity being taken to the extreme, such as in the example of Christ Himself)

Poverty and celibacy are good for the soul because they're necessary for the virtues which lead to our moral development, the esoteric purpose of human life. Virtues are what enable the true self, or higher nature, to command the lower nature, or animal self.

We do not bring anything from earthly life after death, only that which we have developed in the soul. Whether that be virtues, or vices.

It does occur that many individuals are unable to attain all these virtues in one lifetime, and it is a necessity that they undergo great vices, such as greed and lust so they may suffer the consequences of these attachments and garner that material which may one day be transformed into virtue, whether it be in the current lifetime or the next. Dr. Rudolf Steiner explains this well in his Anthroposophical system, as do many other authors.

God bless!

>>42570151
I dont care, the bible is an incoherent text, it is not infallible and was not divinely inspired and has led to much delusion and madness.

I am already in poverty and will never be married or have children. I also refuse to preach for $$$, and I do not trust any religious authorities. I do not enjoy life much anymore. I have nightmares of being crucified, I hate religion. The churches are filled with swindlers, charlatans, child abusers, and false prophets. Their miracles are cheap conjurers tricks and stage magic. Theyre all goddamned liars.

>>42571546
I was nearly martyrd for trying to help christianity. I will not assist any religious authorities in any endeavor, I will not tithe, take eucharist, and I renounce baptism. Idgaf about the saints, I am a saint for not hunting boy rapist priests and cutting off their cocks and carving 666 into their foreheads before forcing them to deny christ right before they die.

>>42571081
Idgaf about rudolph steiner either he was a crank.

All I wanted, when I was a child, was to live in a spaceship. Instead, I will probably die in poverty.

>>42571563
It is fortunate that I decided to practice nonviolence towards humans. It is difficult for me to restrain my anger at those who abuse children while pretending to be religious. And at those who lie and decieve many, while pretending to be religious.

>>42571592
They call themselves father, they give themselves fancy titles, and wear fancy robes, while they fuck little boys. I know who their father is.

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Wow the satanists are getting really triggered by some of the good posts and discussions that were going on

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Does anyone have any good recommendations for resources on Christian Kabbalah? I see that OPalways posts Johannes Reuchlin. He seems like a good introduction. I'm just looking for a few more sources. I have had a few introductions from other sources. I'm just curious about if anyone can recommend any more.

>>42554691

This movie convinced me that Catholics are zombies: Christ himself raised people from the dead. Maybe using a serum, like in the movie.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ovXE-vdSAL4

>>42572674
There's not much in english sadly, you can read Joseph Gitallika who influenced Paulo Riccio, a Jewish convert to Christianity through Kabbalah, you can read De Coniecturis by Nicholas of Cusa, its not Kabbalah per se, but all Christian Cabala is dependant on it, then there's the Yhird Book of Occult Philosophy by Henry Cornelius Agrippa which contains Cabala in it, if you know french there's a good summary by Jean Thenaud, the Cambridge Platonists wrote of Cabala, though they were mostly interested in the "Platonick Cabala", Knorr von Rosenroth compiled Kabbalah Denundata which was partly translated by MacGregor Mathers, and id you know German there's Friedrich Christoph Oetinger and Franz Joseph Molitor
Just start with Reuchlin, he's in english and his work was the "Bible of Christian Cabala"

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>>42573985
Thank you. I'll start with Reuchlin

Bump

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>>42573985
I've been going down the rabbit hole on these others that you recommended. I have not been disappointed. Thanks a lot.

>>42554691
>https://www.john-uebersax.com/plato/cp.htm
Why is this first website from the resources all in Korean? Was it always in Korean?
>https://jacobboehmeonline.com/
This one is really cool
>https://catenabible.com/mt/
This one does not work.

>>42578829
Previously it was an amazing resource that give a list of the most important Christian philosophers, now it seems to have changed into something else and is now in Korean, it should be removed
And the catenabible worked previously, maybe it'll be up again soon, if not it'll be removed

Summer Solstice: Secrets of Alchemy and Sublimation

“The traditional literature of all countries contains innumerable legends and accounts of mythological battles between the forces of light and darkness. On about June 21, with the Summer Solstice, we enter the period in which light triumphs over darkness, and a few days later on June 24th, we celebrate the feast of St John the Baptist. On that date it is customary to light fires that burn all night. The Summer Solstice is ruled by the Archangel Uriel who is an archangel of light: his name means ‘God is my light’. The feast of St John coincides with the moment when the sun enters Cancer- the sign in which Venus is in exaltation- and this is no chance coincidence, for the feast of St John is the feast of fire, the feast of the summer heat which ripens fruit and all other things in nature, But this fire is also the fire of physical, sensual love and it is well known that, in some countries, the night of St John was the occasion for all kinds of sexual excesses.

In the Sephirotic Tree of Life, Uriel is the Archangel of the Sephirah Malkuth, the Earth. As such he is in communication with the inner fire of the planet, and some of the angels under his command work with the metals and precious stones of the earth. This is the work that the Greeks attributed to their god Hephaestus (the Roman Vulcan). Hephaestus, or Vulcan, used fire as he worked with stone and metal, for fire is the only force capable of melting stone and making them malleable…

If men and women are conscious and attentive during this period of the Summer Solstice, when light is at its most powerful and the forces of night and darkness are retreating, they will receive the power to launch an attack on their own inner darkness- and they will have a good chance of being victorious. When the nights are growing longer and the light fading, when the vital currents in the world are beginning to contract and slacken under pressure from contrary forces that are gaining in vigor, it is not the time to undertake this kind of work. Conditions, both within and without, no longer lend themselves to the task. In a period in which light is triumphant, however, men and women who are truly desirous of doing some important work for the world can do so in good conditions; if they have already settled their own personal problems, they have the right and even the duty to go further.

Since Uriel is the archangel of fire, he has ties, not only with the physical terrestrial fire, but also with the fire of that tremendous sexual energy constantly simmering within human beings. It is for this reason that it is essential to learn to work with the archangel Uriel: because it is essential to learn to work with fire in order to sublimate all these energies. What exactly is sublimation? It is the passage from one state to another, and it is heat that effects this passage, When the temperature is below zero degrees, water freezes and becomes solid; if you heat it slightly to 1 degree it melts and becomes liquid again. Heat it even more, to 100 degrees and it changes into steam. And if you want to separate the oxygen from the hydrogen contained in steam, you will need even more heat. The only problem for engineers who use very high temperatures in transforming certain gases or liquids is that of finding containers and tubing made of suitable heat- resistant materials.

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>>42579877
>>42579880
But all these modern techniques that science is learning to apply in dealing with matter have been known to esoteric science from earliest antiquity. The initiates, who have an intimate knowledge of human nature, have known for a long time that man’s body is equipped with a network of circuits, ducts and ramifications that permit the circulation and transmutation of very potent elements. I am not talking about the circulatory system, although the capillaries are extremely fine blood vessels, or even about the finer fibres of the nervous system. I am talking about another, even subtler network which enables humans to transmute and sublimate matter and raise it to the etheric state. This process is constantly taking place in our bodies, thanks to the extremely complex and subtle networks with which the human lungs, heart and brain, and above all, spinal column, have been equipped by Cosmic Intelligence.

These transformations take place in all human beings, but to a greater or lesser degree and, very often, without their knowledge. An unconscious work of spiritual alchemy is constantly going on in our souls and bodies; the important thing, now, is to become conscious of it, knowing that we are equipped with the network of channels we need to sublimate raw matter and transport it to ever subtler regions. How can we best prepare ourselves for this work of sublimation? By living a life of purity and harmony and by consciously opening ourselves up to the powerful currents of light from heaven.”

- Omraam Mikhael Aivanhov The Fruits of the Tree of LIfe:-The Cabbalistic Tradition

For the Solstice my children and I gathered around our entryway table (which has a few things and functions, in a way, as an altar) while I read Psalm 19 which felt appropriate for the longest day of the year (since it speaks of the sun and its motions) then lit a candle and let it burn as we considered the Lord and His goodness, as well as the things we have as goals for this year.

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Please make sense of these verses

>God is not a man, that He should lie, nor a son of man, that He should repent.
Number 23:19

>And it repented the LORD that he had made man on the earth, and it grieved him at his heart.
Genesis 6:6

>8Go up to the feast on your own. I am notb going up to this feast, because My time has not yet come.”
9Having said this, Jesus remained in Galilee. 10But after His brothers had gone up to the feast, He also went—not publicly, but in secret.
John 7:8-10

>>42581171

Bible isn't inerrant nor is it univocal.

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I'm 99% sure God wants me to be a priest, but I really don't fucking want to.
Why can't I just have a wife and kids and shit, bro?

>>42581171
If you assume the verses to be true, you will find an interpretation where it is true.
If you assume the verses to be false you will see them as false.

Pilpul thinking makes one good at this type of thinking.
On another note, people talk of multiple layers of interpretation - so there may be a material and cold logical surface level, then a heavenly level of correspondences, a moral legalistic level, and so on. But if you dont understand heavenly correspondences the parables will pass over your head.

As well many people mention that each time they read the Bible they percieve it different and their view changes from a material to a deeper spiritual level. They start to think maybe main OT story is about removing passions and battling evil thoughts on the level of the mind, and the historical effects are only metaphors for the internal battle.

If youre complaining about moral interpretation of that last verse, go do some talmud or mishnah readings on some ethics, where the rabbis hairsplice the meanings, and you will see how foolish you look

>>42582164
why a priest and not a monk
If its not your destiny to not get married, then it theres no way around it - theres simply no soulmate out there for you because theyve been already assigned to someone else

>>42582331
>why a priest and not a monk
This is a fair question. Ultimately I need to speak to my priest about this, but...
I'm just really fucking annoyed. I'm convinced God put the idea of having a family in my head when I was 6 because what kid randomly thinks about that when on the playground during recess? Of course, this could've just been bumper rails, a sort of rope to help guide me back home because He knew I'd get lost for a while, but still... 25 fucking years I've been guided by that dream, and now He's asking me to offer it up? It's fucking heartbreaking.

>>42582398
I dunno bro everyone has their own path and journey.
Theres tons of verses saying that it is a great spiritual blessing to take on a priestly role.

Theres also this verse, interpreted in the Philokalia to mean that a married man is a slave to his wife and serving her material desires, rather than being free from passions and able to pursue God
>But if the servant declares, ‘I love my master and my wife and children and do not want to go free,’ 6 then his master must take him before the judges.[a] He shall take him to the door or the doorpost and pierce his ear with an awl. Then he will be his servant for life.

>>42582455
>rather than being free from passions and able to pursue God
My goal was to be a writer and college professor before I started getting signs and hearing the call. I asked for a sledgehammer to the head because I can't be extremely dense and oblivious about things, and God proceeded to hit me with Attitude Era chair shots to the head for weeks on end and I still keep trying to talk Him out of it. I've kind of always lived a more priestly/monkish like to begin with, but... It's different when the possibility of eventually have a family of my own is no longer there. At least the chance is still alive for now, ya know?

>>42561224
Enoch is described as being created by God in a syzygy with Leviathan on the fifth day of creation in the Apocalypse of Ezra (variously called II Esdras, III Esdras, IV Esdras). IV Esdras 6:

47: Upon the fifth day thou saidst unto the seventh part, where the waters were gathered that it should bring forth living creatures, fowls and fishes: and so it came to pass.

48: For the dumb water and without life brought forth living things at the commandment of God, that all people might praise thy wondrous works.

49: Then didst thou ordain two living creatures, the one thou calledst Enoch, and the other Leviathan;

50: And didst separate the one from the other: for the seventh part, namely, where the water was gathered together, might not hold them both.

51: Unto Enoch thou gavest one part, which was dried up the third day, that he should dwell in the same part, wherein are a thousand hills:

52: But unto Leviathan thou gavest the seventh part, namely, the moist; and hast kept him to be devoured of whom thou wilt, and when.

>>42582109
So is that an error
How do we know which parts of the Old Testament to trust considering it doesn't have as much of a textual criticism field as the NT?
>>42582331
But what do the verses mean

>>42582525
When a person hears all the stories and signs leading to where someone is in life, its easy for them to accept the other person lot in life
But it can be hard for the person themselves to accept their own lot in life
Everyone has something though, some hope and dream they had to let go of while life took another path

>>42582572
>But what do the verses mean
There are many layers of interpretation.
It would be better if you told us why they are upsetting you

>textual criticism field
Maybe the problem is you.
Enter heaven like a child not like a doubter and accuser
You can look up 20 different translations and commentaries in the blink of an eye
Most people would read right through those verses without having a major crisis

>>42582587
Because they're apparent contradictions

It seems like you're deflecting and trying to guilt trip me into not questioning it.

>>42582595
>Because they're apparent contradictions
They're not.
If you make the assumption that they are not contradictions, and then spend time thinking about them, you will figure out valid interpretations.

This line of reasoning comes up all the time in Jewish writings.
You're not clever for posting them.
For the old testament ones you can probably find good jewish commentaries - just ask AI what the talmud or mishnah has written about those verses

>>42582603
I'm neutral and making no assumption one way or another. No need for the overt hostility. If you have an interpretation, I'm willing to discuss it with you, if not then there's no need to continue replying, friend.

>>42582164
Be Orthodox or Greek-Catholic. You can have wife and kids and be a priest.

>>42581171
The first two don't contradict as the former is a theological statement and the latter a figurative description to explain the flood
I'll explain it with myself, i believe that God is being, goodness, life etc..., but i can be in a situation where i say something like "this is a godforsaken place" when i go to like lahore in pakistan, i still say it while knowing that a godforsaken place cannot exist by my definition of God
When you want to tell a story where God is part of it, God will be a literary character and will be somewhat anthropomorphized, God doesn't get angry or hate anyone, but when i have to explain Sodom and Gomorrah, I'll tell you "God hated them and got so angry he destroyed them"
As for the second, read it in context, Jesus didn't want to go publicly because he'd get in conflict with the religious authorities, he went in secret, then partway during the festival he started preaching
>>42582572
There's no issue with having to figure out parts to trust, you have to trust everything as its part of the Bible
However when it comes to interpretation there is a lot of material on it, critical studies on its historicity as well, but don't look into those people who argue for the historicity of the beginning of Genesis

>>42582558
Interesting, I didn't know that, still this doesn't make Enoch Metatron, this seems similar to the Syzygies in the Clementine Homilies where god made 10 pairs opposed to eachother, the only one i remember right now is Saint Paul and his adversary Simon Magus

>>42583737
>I'll explain it with myself, i believe that God is being, goodness, life etc..., but i can be in a situation where i say something like "this is a godforsaken place" when i go to like lahore in pakistan, i still say it while knowing that a godforsaken place cannot exist by my definition of God
>When you want to tell a story where God is part of it, God will be a literary character and will be somewhat anthropomorphized, God doesn't get angry or hate anyone, but when i have to explain Sodom and Gomorrah, I'll tell you "God hated them and got so angry he destroyed them"
But how do you know this to be the case, as opposed to it simply being an oversight by the writers?
>As for the second, read it in context, Jesus didn't want to go publicly because he'd get in conflict with the religious authorities, he went in secret, then partway during the festival he started preaching
I think that's an explanation for why Jesus lied, but it doesn't explain away the apparent lie in the first place

Just for the record, I'm not losing my faith in Christianity over this, but I am losing a bit of faith in the Old Testament as authoritative. I think the NT record is strong enough to make a case for Jesus being divine by itself.

The Cross tells me that if I am to call myself God, then I have to accept that I am responsible for this world instead of trying to shake my fist at an illusory demiurge.

I am the Alpha and Omega.

>>42584608
>But how do you know this to be the case, as opposed to it simply being an oversight by the writers?
Through reason, as you can say it's simpler to just say that its a contradiction, it's important to know how to read texts correctly and when doing so to know when something is wrong vs when something isn't understood by you
Think of it this way, let's say its a contradiction, why didn't the scribes who transmitted the text just fix it?
Also i don't see Jesus lying there, he just told them he won't come with them, then later he went alone, you read the "I won't come" as "I won't ever come", but since he did he meant "I won't come yet"
Just for the record, I'm not losing my faith in Christianity over this, but I am losing a bit of faith in the Old Testament as authoritative. I think the NT record is strong enough to make a case for Jesus being divine by itself.
If the NT is authoritative and is dependant on the OT and considers it authoritative, then the OT is authoritative as well

Esotericism is cringe and antithetical to the teachings of Jesus Christ, a chad exotericist.

Jesus: “Love your neighbors”
You larping faggots: “a 5th century writer thought Saturn was a portal to a dimension where demons ran around shitting out magic and hell has 13 layers to it and the 6th one is the backrooms and jewish oligarchs aren’t actually obfuscative perverts but instead interdimensional lizard people and my dad was pussywhipped by my girlboss mom and I don’t even know my neighbors’ names because I pretend to have schizophrenia on the internet so strangers think I’m cool”

>>42584968
>why didn't the scribes who transmitted the text just fix it?
I don't know but that could be applied to the NT too, why didn't the scribes just get rid of Mark 16s ending, why didn't they just get rid of the johannine comma? We know for a fact these aren't authentic to the original authors text, nor are they necessary to make the point the editors were attempting to make.
My point is, we know errors and variances are highly possible, simply asking "why didn't they just do a perfect job and fix the errors" doesn't explain away that errors do exist on record. I think the mistake is in believing our faith is dependent upon these texts being perfect.
>i don't see Jesus lying there, he just told them he won't come with them, then later he went alone, you read the "I won't come" as "I won't ever come", but since he did he meant "I won't come yet"
That requires you to read an assumption into the text. "I won't come" does indeed mean "I will not come". Jesus seems to be intentionally leading them to believe he has no intention of going at all. I don't believe Jesus is committing a sin here, I interpret it in the same way I'd interpret God taking lives, namely that if God always knows the perfect time to kill lawfully without it being murder, then he would know when to tell a non-truth when it's to a perfectly good end. I see this as more coherent/honest than needing to read things into the text, especially considering elsewhere we have 2 Thessalonians: And because of this, God sends to them a working of delusion for them to believe the lie
It simply makes more sense to me to say that God can do what he wants and it is always good as a matter of principle
1/2

>>42584968
2/2
>If the NT is authoritative and is dependant on the OT
I do not believe the NT depends on the OT, I believe an unbiased examination of the NT as a collection of mostly independent documents is enough for one to conclude Jesus is an extremely profound, probably divine individual. I think making the NT dependent upon the OT would actually weaken it, because the OT is not of remotely identical historical veracity.

>>42585067
>I think the mistake is in believing our faith is dependent upon these texts being perfect.
You didn't understand my point
I meant that if it were a contradiction, there were centuries of scribes who could have seen it and just fix it, instead any "obvious contradiction" was retained and instead explained through commentary, which makes me lean towards the explanation that it's not actually a contradiction
>>42585071
Yes the historicity for the NT stands on its own, but when it comes to its theological teaching, it's dependant on the OT, this means that if the NT is true, the OT is true, in one way or another

>>42585654
>I meant that if it were a contradiction, there were centuries of scribes who could have seen it and just fix it, instead any "obvious contradiction" was retained and instead explained through commentary, which makes me lean towards the explanation that it's not actually a contradiction
That's too speculative for me to accept. I could just as easily assert that there were centuries of scribes who were too stupid or incompetent to bother fixing it, which happens constantly in the professional world. You're projecting a positive bias and I'd be a projecting a negative bias. We'd have an easier time claiming one or the other if we had a record of early manuscripts or commentators comparing them in parallel, like we do with the NT. Instead all we have really is the text itself, and some commentaries written much later with their own long held traditions and biases, which are hardly objective.
>but when it comes to its theological teaching, it's dependant on the OT,
How so? I don't think to make claims like "the Jews believed in Yahweh" or "the Jews had, messianic prophecies" depends upon there not being any discrepancies at all in the OT, in a similar way that Jesus having probably risen from the dead doesn't require the NT to be free from discrepancies.
>this means that if the NT is true, the OT is true, in one way or another
"In one way or another" is very ambiguous. I would say parts of it are true and parts of it aren't.

All texts are objects created and preserved by humans. They have contradictions, bias, errors, wishful thinking, cultural neuroses, and useful information about how some people were thinking in the past. Treat a text the way you would a textbook: a simplified tool used until you no longer need it and begin engaging with the underlying reality it describes.

>>42586257
>That's too speculative for me to accept.
While that's true, knowing the context of how religion was preserved in those times, the Old Testament being the way it is makes no sense, instead it should have been refined through centuries of retelling
I'll give an example, Mediterranean people had fluid mythologies, the "canon" would be changed and improved upon, Christians themselves did that because it was part of Roman and Greek tradition, we have late antique retellings of the Old and New Testament, rewritten to work as epic poetry and usually contained new theology in it, like their Genesis being both a retelling and a commentary on the original at the same time
The Targums are all exactly that, retellings of the OT in Aramaic
The OT should be like these, instead it is much better preserved, so well preserved that scholars argue that yhe text is made up of different layers, and the different layers contradict eachother, but if the OT is a compilation like that, then most apparent contradictions are most likely not contradictory and instead just need commentary, as the compilers knew what they were doing, if they didn't they wouldn't have eben compiled and preserved these texts
>How so?
Most concepts developed in the NT originate from the OT, the Monotheistic God, Heavenly Jerusalem, Davidic Messiah, the Temple, Prophecy and Prophethood, the Fall of Adam, etc...
The reason we have the OT is because of this and that all of it should be read and is part of the religion, otherwise Jesus and the Apostles would've done an Islam and reject it or modify it to remove everything not important to us

>I would say parts of it are true and parts of it aren't.
All of it is true, it's just that some parts, for example the beginning of Genesis aren't literally true like the later stories like King David for example, yet they're still true in the sense that they speak of higher truths

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>>42586574
Jesus said everything you need to be saved. Everything past that point is just climbing up the sides of cliffs to get a better view of the pilgrim's road

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Why is it with Christian near death experience videos I see online, I always see testimonies of people seeing apostate Christians/Muslims/Hindus/Buddhists in Hell but never apostate Rabbis?

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>>42589091
the water of baptism is thicker than the blood of the covenant

>>42589091
All their videos and testimonies are fake. Theyve been lying about afterlife punishment for centuries to get people to give them $$$. Its a cult.
>no see, you have to uh, do these rituals we invented and give us your $$$, land, etc, to go to "heaven"

>>42589174
Also, they fake all their miracles. Faith healers are a scam, so are all religious prophets. They are all swindlers.

>>42589181
Never, ever ever ever trust any religious leader. All of them are out to take your $$$ using vain threats of punishment. They want you to be their slave, and turn a blind eye to their many abuses. They will spew bible verses at you, try to guilt trip you into giving them $$$, accuse you of various made up trespasses. Religious leaders are pathological liars and egomaniacs.

>well *DA LAWD* TOLD ME TO TELL YOU TO GIVE ME $$$ OR GO TA HELL
U first.
>NO U GOTTA UHH, CAST THE UHH DEMON OUT
No such thing as demons, do not obey schizophrenic cult leaders.

>>42589202
They will also do nothing but paraphrase bible verses at you. Its proven they have brain damage and various mental disorders.

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>>42589174
You certainly get punished for living in sin, don't be confused by the evil one. The soul cannot be destroyed and when nothing is left to redeem there is a miserable remnant drifting in the etrrernal darkness. Having divinity within us can be a curse if we let this fate befall us. It's why we need to preach to those that do not understand and open their hearts to the Gospel.

Regardless, compared to the horror of damnation the glory of eternal life is infinitely more wonderful. God takes care of His children. Please believe in Him and do not scrutinize his will. The foolishness of God is wiser than the wisdom of man.

>>42589202
And you think you here are more trustworthy. You literally practice magic disguised as Christianity.

>>42589236
I would argue Christian esotericism is stuff like angels, mystical prayer, and neoplatonic philosophy. Things that are true and validated by church tradition but not tightly tied to the bible in the same way. I'm sure a lot of people in this thread are heterodox christians but I don't think all of us are sorcerers, not nearly so. Sorcery is forbidden in the bible.

>>42589230
Such an evil being would be so grotesque, that the only moral response would be to resist no matter the bribe of Heaven or the Threat of Hell.

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>>42589497
>Such an evil being would be so grotesque, that the only moral response would be to resist no matter the bribe of Heaven or the Threat of Hell.
Every work of art has waste materials. Sharpening a sword takes away some of the steel, which was already reduced by slag and rock was seperated from ore. The fact that all of us can be saved is a wonderful, wonderful miracle. We are the worthless dust that is cast into a beautiful marvel. All was lost and ruined before Christ came to redeem us, and gave us a path away from sin. There is nothing more beautiful and good.

The stone which the builders rejected has become the cornerstone. By the Lord has this been done. It is wonderful in our eyes.

Christ is risen and he has saved us from death! Hallelujah!

>>42589272
That's so funny with you Western "Christians." I don't remember being commanded to try and delve into esoterism; actually, the massage of the bible is pretty clear, but you just had to be extra. It's funny how you don't see your sins.

>>42589548
No, I don’t believe that consciousness is worthless.

It is the most precious thing and should never be toyed with.


The only moral way for a conscious viewpoint to exist is as a sovereign and free God.

>>42589568
And for never being toyed with, I mean conscious viewpoints.

If there is a local experience , then that experience must be its own sovereign and free God. Necessarily. No other moral option.

>>42589562
There's more going on than you're giving Christianity credit for. Many things are told but not up to the point of full understanding. There needs to be some individual interpretation of scripture, which opens the door for esotericism to some degree. We need to believe in the Gospel, what what the Gospel actually is needs to be understood on multiple levels to live a righteous life.
There's nothing sinful about loving God and wanting to know God more closely. God gave us sensation and intellects so that we would be capable of Love. That love grows deeper and deeper the more we labor in God's name towards understanding. We need to love God to know God, and we need to know God to love God. This is why God is everywhere for us to love.
>>42589568
The things about us that are good are just a microchasm of God's creation, and the things that are bad are just defects in our ability to be like Jesus.

>>42589588
It is not your job to know everything and explore magic under the pretense of Christian roleplay. Again, the Bible is pretty clear on that. You should worry about not committing sins and pray to God and help people, simple as that. Everything else is indulgence in stuff that you are not supposed to. But then again, my country never really had problems with spirits or possessions because we simply don't do that stuff, while there are numerous stories in the West because you constantly mess with stuff that you shouldn't. You do you, buddy, but out of respect, don't call yourself Christian because you are not.

>>42589646
I don't do magic. I have nothing more to say to you.

>>42554691
Tell me how to heal? I have heard that the book of Psalms is like a spellbook of sorts. Is this true?

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>>42589971
Yes but the entire bible is.
If you chakra energy system is active, you will feel your chakras burning and filling with light when you read the BIble.
If you are clairvoyant you may see angels and Holy Spirit and different colors of light and such things.

>>42589646
>. But then again, my country never really had problems
You are a coward hiding behind anonymity

fel like writing an essay
https://pastebin.com/reLEXDRF

>>42590236
What the fuck is your problem? First you are anonymous yourself. Secondly, what does my comment have to do with cowardice? You all engage in sin. Fuck, what did I do?

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How can I gaslight myself into believing in Christianity? I'm too cynical to take the leap of faith but my goal is to spread love to make up for all the suffering I've been through. I've never felt anything from praying but I'm probably not doing enough.

>>42591376
You understand exactly what you need
Take the leap of faith
Believe in the gospel and praise Jesus Christ
Pray every day, at every meal, in morning and at bedtime
Do good deeds in His name and love your fellow man.
Christ loves you, love him back.
Say it and truly truly mean it and you'll come to believe
Faith is a virtue which can be developed with practice, just like all the rest.
Believe in him and trust him, He is risen.

>>42591376

Go read Hebrews 11. I want you to ask yourself if you want to be in the lineage of faith. See the people God has worked with and through. How much suffering have they been through? Did their foibles and humanity disqualify them from God working through them?

Then, do the things they did. Emulate them. Pray, fast, read the scriptures. Situate yourself in that lineage of faith, then move forward with hope.

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>>42571081
>We do not bring anything from earthly life after death, only that which we have developed in the soul. Whether that be virtues, or vices.
19 “Do not lay up for yourselves treasures on earth, where moth and rust 5 destroy and where thieves break in and steal, 20 but lay up for yourselves treasures in heaven, where neither moth nor rust destroys and where thieves do not break in and steal. 21 For where your treasure is, there your heart will be also.

Matthew 6

>>42554691
https://historicephratacloister.blogspot.com/2015/09/examination-of-mystical-figure-sheds.html?m=1

>>42591464
Amen and glory to God

>>42589091
Nobody answered my question.

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>>42595055
i can explain my answer more literally if you can't understand it
>>42589150
the false rabbis are in a different part of hell because they've committed a different type of sin.
judaism is inherited via the covenant and the covenant cannot be broken because it exists through abraham and not directly through his descendants. thus you can't "apostise" from Judaism. Therefore false rabbis suffer in hell for their blaasphemies and false teachings and sometimes sorcery.

Another question I have. In some of these NDEs I’ve watched/read, some state that God does not forgive sin in believers if they aren’t repented of, which would include having a second marriage while the first spouse was still alive or things like suicide. I thought blasphemy against the Holy Spirit was the only unforgivable sin. Is there some kind of connection there?
Or does that believer continue to go through literal Hell in the afterlife before given a chance to enter the kingdom on the day of Judgment?
I’ve always been curious about this. The second death has to be a super Hell basically if one is in a form of Hell in the first grave.
And one more question: since the OT dietary laws are restored during the feast period during the book of Revelations, does that mean pork is sinful again to eat past that point?

>>42595096
Good point. Thank you so much for the clarification.

>>42595112
But I say unto you that every idle word that men shall speak, they shall give account thereof in the Day of Judgment.

For by thy words thou shalt be justified, and by thy words thou shalt be condemned.”

You have to repent

>>42595149
I understand. So that means free grace is a false doctrine since Jesus did not eliminate the law. This means that any believer who has made a grave sin & did not have the chance to repent, will enter Hades. Wow, when he says few will enter the kingdom, that’s probably what he means.

>>42595163
you have to atone for your sins before the Day of Judgement. Damnation is the utter failure at the day of judgement. God gives us the blessing of Purgatory to atone for our sins one last time after deaath and before we are judged. This takes place during the beatific vision which is what people who have NDEs and are "in hell" see. Just a short prelude to purgatory. We are granted purgatory according to the grace of God and the intercession of the Saints and Angels, who prepare us and cleanse our spirits before our court date with the Lord.
They could not be in hell because they went back to life and haven't been damned yet. It borders on blasphemy to think that God made a mistake and judged them too early.
Side note that heaven is for real kid went to my school then got outed as a fraud later, lol

>>42595184
That makes sense. I’ve always wondered why a soul would be in Hell if the day of Judgment hasn’t come yet, unless time works differently in the afterlife. Thank you.

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>>42595203
No problem. Expounding on the nature of the afterlife is generally not taught because it either confuses or scares the laity. And dying with an impure heart on the assumption you'll go to purgatory is probably the absolute worst way to avoid Hell. However, false teachers need to be corrected.
What the actual eternality of Hell is though a bit more open to interpretation. The bible has a few passages that make it seem like damnation is an eternal punishment, but not necessarily an eternal torture. Those who are damned are burned but the bible seems to imply in multiple places that Hell causes destruction.
Some bible verses to consider
2 Thessalonians 1 "In flaming fire, inflicting vengeance on those who do not know God and on those who do not obey the gospel of our Lord Jesus. They will suffer the punishment of eternal destruction, away from the presence of the Lord and from the glory of his might"
Matthew 10 "And do not fear those who kill the body but cannot kill the soul. Rather fear him who can destroy both soul and body in hell."
Isaiah 66 (referenced later in Mark 9) "And they shall go out and look on the dead bodies of the men who have rebelled against me. For their worm shall not die, their fire shall not be quenched, and they shall be an abhorrence to all flesh.”

Hell seems to be eternal death granted by God's judgement through burning. The fire does not die but those judged do die.
In my opinion, Hell is very similar to Purgatory insofar as the impure aspects of a person are destroyed in a painful process. However, one who has been damned is wholly destroyed by God's purification because there is nothing good within them. However, this is sspeculation from what is given to us by Scripture and not a truth I can attest to. Only God knows eternity.

>>42595330
>inflicting vengeance on those who do not know God and on those who do not obey the gospel of our Lord Jesus.
“and on those who do not obey the gospel of our Lord Jesus.” would this imply a second category of someone who once knew the Lord but became disobedient?

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>>42595381
You can not know God or you can know God and disobey him. Either way, the destination is Hell. It's sort of a prophylactic condemnation of Christians that think their baptism or belief of God is enough to save them.

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Lets go Jesus!!!

Lord, please
Sturdy these hands to do your work
Soften this heart to understand your will
Cool my anger to know your patience
Ignite my passion to enact your justice
And at my judgement, if your slave was worthy
Grant me life eternal in death, Amen

I seriously doubt Christianity or any abrahamic religions are true

I have done things like prayer and lots of good deeds and I have not in any significant way been rewarded not materially or with a miracle

Instead I get to suffer

>>42598608
“Do not store up for yourselves treasures on earth, where moths and vermin destroy, and where thieves break in and steal. But store up for yourselves treasures in heaven, where moths and vermin do not destroy, and where thieves do not break in and steal. For where your treasure is, there your heart will be also.

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esoteric redpill
Joseph going to Egypt was a historical survival of the bronze age collapse
> The seven years of abundance in Egypt came to an end, and the seven years of famine began, just as Joseph had said. There was famine in all the other lands, but in the whole land of Egypt there was food. When all Egypt began to feel the famine, the people cried to Pharaoh for food.
https://www.thetorah.com/article/joseph-and-the-famine-the-storys-origins-in-egyptian-history
I think that the historicity of Genesis after Abraham and maybe even after Lot is more defensible than many make it out to be.
The 12 tribes of Israel are the Sea Peoples and Canaanites that left Egypt and settled in the Levant
The Book of Judges is the story of them conquering the natives that had stayed in Judea.

>>42599102
Side note, this also implies that the Judaic tradition was born out of many populations from its inception and only really became one when they settled together.. The rhyming with Christianity, Hellenic Judaism and the acceptance of the gentiles, the departure from the Roman hegemon, etc, is incredible. The ramifications of this theological observation are so large that I haven't been able to fully digest them.

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Source from Ramses 3
“The foreign countries made a conspiracy in their islands. All at once the lands were removed and scattered in the fray. No land could stand before their arms, from Khatte, Qode, Carchemish, Arzawa, and Alashiya on, being cut off at [one time]. A camp was set up in one place in Amurru (Amorites). They desolated its people, and its land was like that which has never come into being. They were coming forward toward Egypt, while the flame was prepared before them. Their confederation was the Peleset, Tjekker, Shekelesh, Danuna, and Weshesh, lands united. They laid their hands upon the lands as far as the circuit of the earth, their hearts confident and trusting.”

Joshua 10: " Joshua attacked and captured Makkedah and its king that day. He put everyone in the city to death; no one was left alive. He did to the king of Makkedah what he had done to the king of Jericho.
After this, Joshua and his army went on from Makkedah to Libnah and attacked it. 30 The Lord also gave the Israelites victory over this city and its king. They spared no one, but killed every person in it. They did to the king what they had done to the king of Jericho."

Also, think about the Exodus story.
What is one detail about the Exodus that is the most legendary? The Israelites left Egypt after a famine and then went across the sea. Is it possible that the Moses story is a retelling that tries to preserve the inherited memories of both walking into the promised land as well as arriving there by crossing the sea? I think there's an argument at least of substantial interest there.

Amos 9:7-12
"Are ye not as children of the Ethiopians unto me, O children of Israel? saith the Lord. Have not I brought up Israel out of the land of Egypt? and the Philistines from Caphtor, and the Syrians from Kir?

Behold, the eyes of the Lord God are upon the sinful kingdom, and I will destroy it from off the face of the earth; saving that I will not utterly destroy the house of Jacob, saith the Lord.

For, lo, I will command, and I will sift the house of Israel among all nations, like as corn is sifted in a sieve, yet shall not the least grain fall upon the earth.

All the sinners of my people shall die by the sword, which say, The evil shall not overtake nor prevent us.

In that day will I raise up the tabernacle of David that is fallen, and close up the breaches thereof; and I will raise up his ruins, and I will build it as in the days of old:

That they may possess the remnant of Edom, and of all the heathen, which are called by my name, saith the Lord that doeth this."

Exodus 12: 49-51
"One law shall be to him that is homeborn, and unto the stranger that sojourneth among you.

Thus did all the children of Israel; as the Lord commanded Moses and Aaron, so did they.

And it came to pass the selfsame day, that the Lord did bring the children of Israel out of the land of Egypt by their armies."
Aka not everybody that left Egypt during the Exodus was a native Israelite.
BIG IMPLICATIONS, why are they kept obscure? To thin the theological uprightness of the universalization of Jewish law through Christianity? I don't want to assume the worst all the time, but it feels vaguely conspiratorial that people dont talk about this stuff.

Also, just to make the Bible more enjoyable to you guys let me give you a tip.
Whenever you're reading the Old Testament, just imaging all the characters wandering around in Mad Max world with crazy outfits and it makes everything 10x cooler

>>42599102
>The Book of Judges
sorry i have an issue with malapropisms i meand the Book of Joshua

>Cain Lamech says that he will be avenged 77 fold
>Seth Lamech lives for 777 years
lol

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May Jesus Christ bless you all i pray that all people will find Jesus

>>42554691
I'm going to read Origen's On First Principles. What am I in for?

>>42600551
I call it the first Christian Summa as it's Origen's summary of Christian faith, in it you'll find explanations on God, the Trinity, Jesus, the angels and even the stars and planets as rational beings, and he will explain the fall of minds into bodies

what happened to the /omg/ thread? haven't seen it up? did they have a falling out?

>>42599207
May God expand the territory of Japheth.
May he live in the tents of Shem.
Canaan will be his slave.”

Is the prophecy of Japheth living in the tents of Shem realized during the Exodus?

>>42599913
Go with Christ
>>42600598
Do you find his justifications powerful or just comprehensive?
>>42600714
I don't know, sorry.

>>42600714
First Ape got sick of it and left, then later on he took the library down, but others had a backup and the backup kept the threads going, but it had declined in popularity by then and now it only reappears rarely
/ceg/ is the new /omg/ in a way, it's like christian rome and pagan rome but set in a mongolian basket weaving forum
>>42601159
>Do you find his justifications powerful or just comprehensive?
He doesn't argue for anything, he just outlines the faith to the faithful, some things might sound bizarre like the pre-existence of minds and God having created multiple worlds in a series, and there was a Origenist controversy in the Church, but he is the Father of Theology and we still believe in all his ideas, in one way or another

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Belial (Samuel) is the ruler of this world, 2nd born to Lucifer/Iblis/Serpent/Satan. Why I say this is because it is Satan who tempts Adam and Eve into lawlessness.

In the Quran Iblis is a shaytain (evil djinn) rendered immortal by god until the day of judgement. For failing in kneeling to Adam, hence being the conception of Lawlessness. Adam was supposed to be a supernatural man that was manifested by angels from dust and the avatar of God, eventually becoming Jesus. It's to say Satan was testing God.

That's why demons have power in the supernatural sense, because there's nothing to inhibit them.

Does anybody know which lineage the Rephaim came from in the bible? I'm trying to compile a biblical geneology but they seem to pop out of nowhere
>>42601514
>That's why demons have power in the supernatural sense, because there's nothing to inhibit them.
Close but not quite
Demons are angels that ate from the Tree of Knoweldge of Good and Evil as well as the Tree of Life.
This is why God intervenes and stops Adam
>Behold, the man has become as one of Us, to know good and evil. And now, lest he put forth his hand and take also of the tree of life, and eat and live for ever
God initially created all things to be good, and so the knowledge of evil can only create temptation. God decided to save Adam and Eve from eternal damnation by casting them out, so that they could receive redemption through death. Beyond just unknowing evil, evil must be unmade for one to become Holy again.
This is also why the Book of Revelation says that the Demons in hell suffer for all eternity, while it says that the people who are thrown into the lake of fire will have a second death. God corrected this mistake on a smaller level when he destroyed the mark of Cain through the flood, but the original fall can only be undone through Christ’s resurrection.

Is law of attraction compatible with Christianity? What about quantum immortality? Doesnt the bible talk about everyone eventually rising from the dead and living happily together

>>42602348
Law of attraction seems fundamentally at odds with the spirit of prayer. Just ask God for blessings and youre much safer.
Quantum immortality as a mechanism of redemption is interesting, but definitely unorthodox. I'd be interested in reading an elaborated theory of yours on that.

>Please, my brethren, do not do so wickedly! See now, I have two daughters who have not known a man; please, let me bring them out to you, and you may do to them as you wish; only do nothing to these men, since this is the reason they have come under the shadow of my roof.
>So Lot went out and spoke to his sons-in-law, who had married his daughters
Was Lot was lying on purpose? If so, why?

Further, it seems like the story of Sodom and Gomorrah is a creation myth of the Dead Sea
I don't really get why people always act like the main problem in Sodom was homosexuality when they were trying to rape angels desu

>>42602371
I’ve asked God for blessings and I have not received any despite doing many good deeds. I am agnostic but I suppose Christian quantum immortality is that there is no afterlife and when you die you just wait to be resurrected and then everyone or all good people get resurrected and live together on earth

All bullshit

>>42602483
There was an earthquake which ignited a deposit of natural gas/bitumen/sulfur way back in the bronze age which destroyed 2 cities and they made up a story.
>biblical flood
Provably local event in the persian gulf when the ice age ended. Before ice age, persian gulf was a hyperfertile flood plain, sea levels rose and the flood story came from the proto-eurasian culture

>>42602521
>There was an earthquake which ignited a deposit of natural gas/bitumen/sulfur way back in the bronze age which destroyed 2 cities and they made up a story.
There are some questions I have about that perspective
1: Why would lot's wife turn into a pillar of salt?
The dead sea is very salty and the connection of salt seems to be intentional
2:Sodom and Gomorrah are just east across the Jordan river, exactly where lot goes when he seperates with abraham
3: There's no evidence of that type of geological event in the area. Besides maybe an earthquake swallowing the cities into the Dead Sea, I don't see much supporting evidence around it

>>42602371

I think a lot of the law of attraction stuff is in general fine, but when it's obsessive materialism it's bad. The real vibe of "just trust bro it's all working out" is the true core. But seems also very easy to bend to extreme materialism/self-aggrandizing.

they had a lot of gall to ban incest in the torah after all the shit that goes down in genesis lol

Is the pre trib rapture biblical?

>>42602660
Isn’t LOA and Mandela effect better explained by non Christian worldviews?

Abimelech really is the definition of "fool me once, shame on you. fool me twice, shame on me"

>>42602798
nah that shit is retarded.
basically dont trust anything you hear about the bible unless you hear it directly. conservative jews are the best with the hebrew bible but they still get goofy

>>42593195
>video
I want you weirdos to stop posting this clip of my wife.

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creating a mind map for the entire bible with all the characters and locations, sometimes adding themes of interest as i go
currently about halfway through genesis
i think once i get to the prophetics it will be less dense in terms of characters but more metaphorical
hopefully once it's completed i will annotate it and try to draw some useful ideas from it.
its already making me feel like i understand the bible much better, because figuring out associations between things takes the rational part of your brain and i didn't focus as hard as i should have for a lot of the OT passages.

i found smth for u guys
https://www.gutenberg.org/ebooks/48242

>>42604941
Thank you for posting this, it seems really cool

Christ be with you

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A voice cries out in the wilderness
>>42606138
And also with you

I feel like i need to give all of my possessions away and preach to all the people of the world to be a good follower of Jesus but I'm weak willed and afraid of the consequences for my family and their relationship with me. One of my cousins is becoming a monk and everybody is very upset with him.

I'm failing to understand how I can incorporate icons into my worship without violating the ordinance to not bow towards graven images

>>42606792
Graven images and idols aren't any and all form of art that depicts a sentient being or god/spirit, that's an interpretation we got from Islam
Idons and graven images are specifically religious images used for worship, where through a ceremony a god is invoked into the statue
That practice is described in the Hermetic Asclepius and condemned by Sain Augustine as idolatry for example

>>42606826
Icons are graven images by definition and bowing towards graven images is forbidden in bible

>>42560626
The YHWH-as-storm-god hypothesis originated with 19th-century German scholarship trying to reconstruct Israelite religion as evolving Canaanite polytheism. It's an academic theory, not established fact. There's zero archaeological evidence of YHWH worship as a storm deity. The closest parallel is the Kenite/Midianite hypothesis, which actually supports the biblical account of Moses encountering God at Sinai rather than undermining it.
The correspondences you're mapping between YHWH, Jupiter, Metatron, and Enoch are neoplatonic syncretism projected onto the text. It's creative but it skips over what the Church actually teaches: that God revealed Himself progressively through Abraham, Moses, and the prophets, culminating in the Incarnation where the transcendent God entered history as a man. The pagan pantheons are not alternative revelations. They're what C.S. Lewis called "good dreams" -- partial premonitions of divine truth, fulfilled and superseded by Christ. The myth became fact.
Metatron is post-biblical Talmudic development. The Church Fathers never engaged with it because it doesn't belong to apostolic tradition. For authentic Christian angelology, read Pseudo-Dionysius the Areopagite's Celestial Hierarchy -- the foundation of the Church's teaching on the nine choirs of angels. It has more depth than the entire Kabbalistic corpus.
The real question isn't whether YHWH maps onto Jupiter in a syncretic chart. It's whether the God who revealed Himself to Abraham acted definitively in the person of Jesus Christ. The historical evidence for the Resurrection is stronger than the evidence for any correspondence theory. Follow the evidence where it leads.

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Moses, the African slave/General of revolution, took the two blue crystal alien A.I. quantum God tablets from the Great Pyramid "Mountain", and fled across the desert, and the gunslingers followed.....

>>42606138
Christ be with you and may peace always find you

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Oh Lord, we humbly pray
Scatter thy blessings across the Earth.
Let the fruits of thy love multiply eternally
Let our faith in thee take hold, greater than ever before.
And should we doubt thy Glory a single moment,
Save us once again from death.
Amen

I love you so much God. Thank you for sending your son to teach me more about you. Thank you for forgiving my sins. Its hard to believe that you could accept such a generous thing. It makes me tremble with fear and with awe. Please help your servants to know your will.

>>42601471
As a matter of fact, a few of Origen's ideas are actually widely accepted by the Church, such as the incorporeality of God. The opponents of the Origenists believed that God was corporeal, that he literally had hands, arms, a back, eyes, etc. For a time, they beat the Origenists in Egypt and had all monks aligned with Origen exiled from their monasteries to Byzantium.

christian esotericism is an oxymoron

your religion literally tells you not to think not to pursue knowledge and understanding

all that matters is groveling to the cosmic jew egregore

>>42606873
Does the spirit of the saint flow into the Icon according to Christianity? No? Then it's not idolatry or worshiping a graven image
>>42606877
Good post, also dubs
>>42607795
Origenism only became an issue with Evagrius Ponticus in the 4th Century, and even then, he is one if the pillars of Monasticism and Western Latin Monasticism comes from him through John Cassian

>>42608118
Thanks, anon. The icon veneration point is correct — Nicaea II (787) was explicit: the honor passes to the prototype, not the material. Latria vs dulia. The Incarnation is what makes imagery licit: God became visible, therefore He can be depicted. The Old Testament prohibition was against idols of false gods, not all religious art — God commanded the cherubim on the Ark and the bronze serpent.
On Evagrius: yes, his Origenist tendencies were posthumously condemned at Constantinople II (553), but his practical works on prayer and the eight deadly thoughts were preserved and transmitted because the tradition recognized their value. John Cassian filtered Evagrius through an orthodox lens and brought desert spirituality to the West. Benedict's Rule, the foundation of Western monasticism, rests on Cassian. Even when a father has theological errors, the Church has always been able to sift wheat from chaff. That's the Catholic difference — we don't have to burn everything someone wrote because they were wrong about one thing.

>>42607844
>Enter through the narrow gate. For wide is the gate and broad is the road that leads to destruction, and many enter through it. But small is the gate and narrow the road that leads to life, and only a few find it.

>>42608679
>If it is hard for the righteous to be saved, what will become of the ungodly and the sinner?

>Walk with the wise and become wise,
for a companion of fools suffers harm.

>>42608679
>how do you find this gate?
>keep begging rabbi yeshua

>>42608704
>I am the way and the truth and the life. No one comes to the Father except through me.
Jesus is the gate but few of even really try with our hearts to reach him

>>42608717
he's a fictional rabbi lol

stop trying to trick people into your imaginary friend jew abuse cult

>>42608760
>Fellow Israelites, listen to this: Jesus of Nazareth was a man accredited by God to you by miracles, wonders and signs, which God did among you through him, as you yourselves know. This man was handed over to you by God’s deliberate plan and foreknowledge; and you, with the help of wicked men, put him to death by nailing him to the cross. But God raised him from the dead, freeing him from the agony of death, because it was impossible for death to keep its hold on him.

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The wandering jew came up randomly in a conversation and I explained the story to my coworker in way too much detail. Now I think she thinks I'm weird.

>>42608785
>jewish babble

he also claimed he would return in his apostles lifetimes lmao

>>42610034
He did.
>Immediately after the tribulation of those days shall the sun be darkened and the moon shall not give her light, and the stars shall fall from heaven and the powers of the heavens shall be shaken,

>and then shall appear the sign of the Son of Man in heaven. And then shall all the tribes of the earth mourn, and they shall see the Son of Man coming in the clouds of heaven with power and with great glory.

>And He shall send His angels with a great sound of a trumpet, and they shall gather together His elect from the four winds, from one end of heaven to the other.

>Heaven and earth shall pass away, but My Words shall not pass away.

He's talking about the resurrection and the Holy Spirit along with the eternal life from the Word and destruction of the temple, aka what happens in the near future.

>>42610120
you're an idiot lol

those details didn't happen in the resurrection. it outright says it is the final judgment yet he failed to do so

>>42610138
It doesnt say final judgement at all in that chapter

Who is Melchizedek?

>>42555413
Any manipulation of reality via the spirits that is fueled by your will and sinful desires over Gods path for your life is bad magic. Unless you're one of those "everything is magic man" like Sunday church rituals or any force you put on reality at all that changes it, then the answer could be different. But basically any spiritual practice apart from Christ worshipping is "bad" magic

Esotericism idolizes language.

>>42610138
Jesus of Nazareth is a historically undeniably real person according to secular academia. There's far more evidence for his historicity then many secular figures from antiquity which are commonly referred to in historical discussion. In regards to any material evidence for his divinity, the margin of skepticism surrounding the shroud of turin only gets smaller and weaker every decade, especially with the latest findings that were able to date and match the plant fibers of the shroud to somewhere in the first or second century, matching the fibers of the fabric to plants from the Levant.

All of your replies to anon come off as overly emotional, and that you feel threatened by the reality of Christ. I'm not saying you have to believe in the Gospels, God or anything else, but that you're just emotionally sperging out without any substance and it prevents anyone from reading you seriously. I understand you're just here to ragebait or using this to vent emotion, but there's probably a better use of your time.

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this might fit here or it might be a broader... being.
who dis? I saw a woman with a similar shining aura around her (the radiance, not the rainbow) naked, blue, in a dream once.
My dreams are typically short so I didn't get to interact long. She was silent too.

>>42611389
Quite the contrary, esotericism will show you how limited language is in regards to being able to accurately express the totality of one's phenomenology. In order to gain this perspective you actually need to have an experience of the reality of the spirit and not just throw one line meanderings on a jewish botfarm basket weaving forum, of course.

>>42611431
The Virgin Mary, Sophia, the Divine Feminine, Isis, Athena, Persephone, Demeter. She has many names but most simply is Our Mother and bestows Wisdom upon those worthy of it.

>>42611444
I wonder why she was blue.
But anyway do you know if I can influence that to happen again? I'm not sure I gained any wisdom, but most cases of sleep paralysis I've had since then have been somewhat pleasant at least.
Hmm.
If I recall, I thought to myself that night or around there "wouldn't it be funny if you had a religious dream now"

>>42611436
True, but that isn’t what’s happening in this thread.

>>42611521
This article contains some prayers and meditations for coming into relationship with Her, and may prompt another dream encounter.

I would suggest that you see if this appearance of Sophia might be especially relevant to you right now, if it could be a message pertinent to concerning some aspect of your life, as we know that dreams are the way by which our mind tries to point towards that which we need to know in order to grow.

https://sophiafoundation.org/wp-content/uploads/2024/04/Divine-Mother-the-Our-Mother-prayer.pdf

I'm so afraid of hell. I feel like i can never atone flr my bad life

>>42610002
There's nothing wrong with knowing something, if you have to be ignorant to be accepted by others then maybe those others aren't worth talking to
>>42610992
Philo of Alexandria wrote that Melchizedek is the Son of God and the Word/Logos, though he was a 1st Century Jewish Philosopher, later Christians saw him as a human king but who acted as an angel or theophany of Jesus and is a "type" of him, like how the burning bush and ark of the covenant are a type of Mary
>>42611619
Isn't Azathoth the World of Warcraft world? Or was that Azaroth
>>42612009
Well that's the point of Christianity, because no one is able to atone for their sins by themselves, they seek forgiveness from God

>>42605831
found it by accident; I'm not really fond of "prayers" but I guess there may be people whom it could help... also it's really nice to find such a book from early 20th century America
>>42606138
with you too

>>42582164
you can have kids and be an orthodox priest

>>42612476
>>42583669
>imagine every time you get home flipped out of the state of grace by a nagging wife and your retarded children, instead of living it 100% of the time
one can't serve two masters

>>42611754
Thank you.

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One of my friends stopped talking to me because i'm a Christian. I feel sad.

>>42612146
>like how the burning bush and ark of the covenant are a type of Mary
This is way more wild than i was prepared to hear. What's that from?
>Isn't Azathoth the World of Warcraft world?
Azathoth is the godhead in the Lovecraft fantasy
>>42612538
A good wife is more condusive to virtue than having to make your own dinners and stuff I'm sure

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>>42613168
>This is way more wild than i was prepared to hear. What's that from?
Christian tradition in general but for specific examples, Saint Ambrose of Milan calls the Ark a type of Mary and Saint Gregory of Nyssa calls the Burning Bush a type of Mary

>>42613726
Is it on like a Kabbalistic sort of analysis where all the vessels for God are consubstantial or is it meant in a metaphorical way?

>>42613741
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Typology_(theology)

>>42613755
That is definitely an interesting theology, and one I see as obviously true
The most inspiring passages in the Bible always come around these moments. There are some obvious ones that are just clearly theologically true, like King David. I think it's a little insulting to Mary's virtue to neglect her personhood though.

>>42613799
In Christianity the Bible has an outer, exoteric, and an inner, esoteric, meaning
The esoteric meaning Origen divides into moral and analogical, whereas Augustine into moral/tropological, allegorical and anagogical
Explanations on the inner sense can be found all of Christian history

>>42613933
I am able to understand at least that much, but I also think that the interplay of different facets of analysis also shows emergent truths about the hierarchies and natures of things. Jesus is more than just a ram or a high priest or a king, but Mary is also more than just a vessel.

>>42614187

yes but seeing Mary as the Ark (who carries the word) is a reminder of her station and purpose and how she ought to be respected.

I also love the Protoevangelium of James where Mary is called as one of the seven virgins who weave the temple veil

>>42614269
>yes but seeing Mary as the Ark (who carries the word) is a reminder of her station and purpose and how she ought to be respected.
It's interesting because it also gives context to the story of Nadab and Abihu. The sons of the High Priest who do not revere the vessel in the right way are burned for their insolence and their deaths and existence must be hidden by the true Church so as not to enrage God.

>>42614286

Yes the strange fire.

I was using this as an example on Sunday about sacredness. That God sometimes erects boundaries to sacred things (making the Israelites wait at the foot of the mountain, or across the river) so we get a liminal protection.

The next step is when we have the profane that causes desecration (the strange fires- this was presumably done on holy altars, but the wrong way, the wrong honoring) and the consequence is death. Leprosy is another example of becoming unclean- and sacrfices are necessary to make it clean.

Then, the third level is the most extreme, it's the invasion of the sacred space by the unholy things. When Manasseh set up altars within the temple and idols in the sanctuary, that is the next level, and the consequence is actually worse than death, it's the withdrawal of God's presence, it's a spiritual death. He rejects His house.

All of this of course is echoed in Christ's ultimate sacrifice- the space between himself and the disciples when he prays in the garden. The mockery of a trial by the Sanhedrin, an allegedly holy body used in the wrong way. And finally, the moment of forsaking on the cross.

>>42614316
>And finally, the moment of forsaking on the cross.
But then the process is inverted
Jesus is laid in a tomb and his Holy body is seperated. Then it appears to be that the tomb has been robbed, because the boundary stone has been rolled away. However, instead of an invasion from outsiders the holiness of Jesus comes out from the designated holy place and into the world. Rather than defiling the holy, Jesus begins the process of sanctifying all creation.

>>42614340

Must leave something for the young men I teach to puzzle out, but yes, good expansion.

>>42614348
Are you an ecclesiastical instructor?

>>42614439

More or less yes, it is a voluntary (though assigned, not sought) position and I help instruct/lead some of the youth. We try to get them to lead the lessons, but once they get past about 5-10 minutes of their assignment they tend to peter out, so I prepare some supplementary material.

>>42614460
are you in the greek church?

>>42585024
uh oh melty

is it sinful to not be able to control your emotions?
if you keep thinking about the evil circumstances of the world and crying, are you being prideful and vain? or is it acceptable in God's eyes?

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I feel like there's a dichotomy among Christians between how we actually internalize our understanding of grace. Some people focus on how it's not deserved and others on how it's freely given. It seems to change your worldview to a great extent.

>>42613168
>A good wife is more condusive to virtue than having to make your own dinners and stuff I'm sure
a good wife? don't tell me you have eaten from the tree of good and evil anon
also she's just mortal and flawed... and that's not even getting into the "kids" part which you nonchalantly ignored

it's enough to look at every Christian "Orthodox" country to see that they have infinite tolerance for gypsy behavior, and in the past few decades they even emulate the same behavior
I'm pretty sure the children of such priests are no exception... in fact the priests aren't either

not having a wife & children at least puts a palisade between you and that behavior inside your household; it's no wonder that Orthodox monastics (who don't marry) have exemplary behavior

>>42614969

Nope. Probably in one of the more unpopular churches around here :)

>>42615911
I don't mean to offend you.
>>42616292
What church are you in?

>>42616498

Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints

>>42616498
>I don't mean to offend you.
well, I don't mean to offend you too; but there is a difference between being the kind of priest you consider being proper, and recommending people to compromise between tending to the flock of the Lord and his own wife/children

*their own

>>42613140
you deserve better friends, here's my discord lukkke1717

>>42616562
Oh , cool. I'm not in that group but I do have respect for some of your theological angles. It's insulting that they removed you guys from that religious list recently.

>>42616840
Thanks, I'll send a request now.

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>If the world hates you, you know that it hated Me before it hated you. If you were of the world, the world would love its own. Yet because you are not of the world, but I chose you out of the world, therefore the world hates you. Remember the word that I said to you, ‘A servant is not greater than his master.’ If they persecuted Me, they will also persecute you. If they kept My word, they will keep yours also.

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>>42554691
Which editon of Theresa de Avila’s writings should I get? I want to read them alongside St John of the Cross and the Cloud of Unknowing

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Why is God depicted as an ox? Wasn't that supposed to be Baal's symbol?

I am confused. Every other post that I've found discussing Christianity or Esoteric Christianity has at least one anon having a schizophrenic break about "Jewish blood egregores" and Satan worship. I don't get it. You believe in Satan (the Christian version) but not the Christian God?

>>42618111
I havent read the original so couldn't tell you which version is more faithful than another.
>>42618234
Jesus is the ram on the altar, not an ox
>>42618344
I don't think anyone here disbelieves in God.

>>42618355
No no, I'm not saying that anyone HERE disbelieves in God. It's just weird to see anons with that pseudo-Christian/pseudo-Gnostic worldview but without Christ.

Both of the most recent threads I've participated in had that kind of thing going on.

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>>42618385
Simple vanity.
They want to attibute the evils of their life to someone and blame them, but they don't have the humility to give thanks for the goods in their life.
>Jesus asked, “Were not all ten cleansed? Where are the other nine?Has no one returned to give praise to God except this foreigner?” Then he said to him, “Rise and go; your faith has made you well.”

>>42618111
The Interior Castle

>>42618234
Bull symbolism because of the "Age of Taurus". Thats why we get Golden Calves, the ancient Hebrew letter for Aleph, and bull-headed sacrificial idols during the timeline of Old Testament.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Astrological_age

Btw what's the concensus on the unforgivable sin? What's the blasphemy against the Holy Spirit?

>>42618425
>And everyone who speaks a word against the Son of Man will be forgiven, but anyone who blasphemes against the Holy Spirit will not be forgiven.
It makes perfect sense if you aren't a Trinitarian. Jesus is a vessel for the Holy Spirit that comes from the Father until he is deified by the resurrection. In other words he's saying "You can slander me but you can't slander the Holy Spirit, since the Holy Spirit is greater than me."
But honestly, I think any Trinitarian interpretation is trying to square the circle. It makes no sense if Jesus is consubstantial with the Spirit at the time he says this.

sage

>>42613726
That is a very beautiful icon.

>>42618495
But why is it that it's unforgivable? Why can't someone repent and be forgiven?

>>42620011

Think of it this way, why does Jesus send the holy spirit? To convict people of who He is. If people don't believe him, even after having a witness of the spirit, they can't be forgiven because they're rejecting the idea of forgiveness itself.

>>42620437
That makes a lot of sense, thank you Anon

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How hard would it be to meet Father Lazarus? I want to talk to him in person but it doesn't seem very doable. Like I know he lives in Egypt by the Red Sea but my chances of interacting with him are low

>>>/his/18555499

Bump

>>42560626
>Can we basically say metatron is Zeus?
Sort of, in the same way you can say that Odin is Solomon

Anyome have a good recommendation for a video about the origins of the hebrew religion?

>>42624850
Sadly all the ones you can find on youtube give you the secular sensationalist version of the story

>>42620575
I think he passed away. I remember reading in a Youtube comment that he passed away. Might not be true though.

>>42620680
We need to return to pre trent Catholicism

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>>42628220
The Jesuits are literally the best thing about Catholicism.

if you guys have discord please add me, we can talk there as well :)

this is my username: lukkke1717

>>42611754
Ah, She's also Shakti. This makes much more sense now.
I did gain wisdom after all. And I believe she's still prodding me.

Again, thank you.

Will the antichrist be a physical incarnation of the Devil himself? How much time do you think the age has left? I've always assumed maybe a couple hundred years since we're clearly in the final stage of history where magick and divinity has fled from the world, but sometimes I wonder if time will end sooner.

>>42631527
satan, the spirit of the world, antichrist
anti trinity

Bump

i am god.

Bump

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I've come to the conclusion that Mary must either be seen as some sort of mysterious embodiment of God's feminine/maternal aspect and is therefore worthy of worship at least insofar as her being a incarnated symbol of the Holy Spirit

Or

She's only a human and therefore worthy of the same love, respect, admiration etc as any other regular human woman who loves God

The problem is, Orthodox and Roman Catholics act out the first one but seem to pay more lip service to the second one. I've yet to find any explanation of mainstream Marian devotion that is both completely honest and appropriately simple.

>>42560939
I come here for posts like this
no other place has posts like this amongst the scholary discussion and its beautiful
so diverse

>>42636221
There is also a third possibility

Queen of heaven idolatry as in Jeremiah

>>42636221
What would you be looking for in that explanation?

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The Ambrosian Illiad

>>42638443
Anything that makes sense
>I've yet to find any explanation of mainstream Marian devotion that is both completely honest and appropriately simple.
I think there is a feminine aspect to God but I don't know how to incorporate that into my faith. It seems all worship in the bible is devoted to the Father, and queen of heaven worship is either discouraged or outright forbidden. This just feels incomplete to me, I feel that humans may need both the masculine and feminine sides to feel complete, but I can't find a honest justification for it that isn't contrary to scripture or early church traditions.

Happy Sabbath

>>42636221

Mary is to be loved as Jesus loved her.

>>42641193
That statement contributed nothing to what I said

>>42641268

What would honest and simple Marian devotion look like to you?

>>42641531
It would have to be compatible with scriptures and the early church for starters.
>>42638443
Why are you guys asking me the same questions with slightly different phrasing, are these bots

>>42636221
The Holy Spirit is female. That's why the church is called she.

>>42554691
Can anyone help me find an /x/ approved video about the origins of the hebrew?

Bump