it becomes obvious when you learn enough to realize that everything is divinely predetermined

in a world where everything is fated, that means it was fated by the creator, who, being omniscient, would of course know what evil he's inflicting on everyone, but who said to himself "fuck 'em" and did it anyway

>>42590204
im basically in a situation with the archons here where they for some reason prohibit me from using my dick and are hell bent on cockblocking me and keeping me from reproducing with white women while being told to just accept it and move on to fairy world where there is no sex and everyone is just a happy little ball of light..

>>42590150
>sees ugly things
>disregards the pretty things
if you haven't noticed but reality is made of duality

>>42590211
>move on to fairy world where there is no sex and everyone is just a happy little ball of light
i unironically want exactly that

>>42590235
i need sex though

>>42590239
sounds like a you problem
buy a prostitute or something

>>42590246
there are no brothels near me as prostitution is illegal. besides. i wanted to be a father and fuck my wife every day. not this new world order crap in my mouth for no reason.
we should create a paramilitary wing, recruit the citizenry, use modern spy equipment, fuck due process, and just dispose of the filthy pigs destroying our countries once and for all!

>>42590259
tought shit
>we should create a paramilitary wing
what's stopping you?

>>42590211
shut the fuck up negro, I don't care about your being denied white pussy

in fact it's the one time where fate turned out to be a good thing

>>42590270
its a mind control operation they're using on unsuspecting guys. that's not cool and it shouldn't happen.. how is my soul supposed to move on from this plane of existence knowing what happened to it?
i will rebel.

>>42590150
Any god demanding you behave like a stepping mat or he burns you alive is not only hateful, but moronic and even schizo.
Who in Hell can traverse life the way it's described in the bible? You would last five (5) minutes tops.
A good God would actual rather you be what is defined as evil and selfish so you're not abused and taken advantage of.

There's your bloody proof

File: 1738128522735010.png (1021 KB, 640x640)

1021 KB PNG

>>42590204
It really is crazy that got created a race of apes just to send most them to fire torture land forever

Predetermination is a horrifying thought since it implies god specifically picks out people who will be raped or murdered before they're even born and also god will pick out the sinners before they're even born just so he can send them to hell to suffer for all eternity for something they did in a ~75 year run on earth

>>42590230
>the 10% of good or beauty is equal to the 90% of evil, pain and suffering

>>42590528
>A good God would actual rather you be what is defined as evil and selfish so you're not abused and taken advantage of.
Absolutely
God as described in the Bible and Quran is a giant narcissist who'll torture anyone who isn't blindly subservient

>>42590150

Why do you feel like the world should fit your point of view?

>>42590528
Well God is a political power and the Most High is a political title. When Zeus had to keep control of heaven he released the cyclops from Hades. I'm sure their sentence was eternal, too

>>42590150
Approaching "God" from a dualistic lens is stupid. Based on every esoteric framework out there (and observable logic/axioms) "God" is akin to a singularity event, it's non-dual and it's outside time, ineffable. Without time there is no distinction between self/no-self, or evil/good.

People who have trouble understanding this have no business "representing" "God".

>>42590727
So Islamic Monotheism?

>>42590731
Care explaining how you derive "islamic monotheism" from my message?

>>42590736
Sure, easy. In Islam God can't be represented. He has names that are more like titles because they don't do justice to his infinitude. The best they can do is geometrical art, because God has no attributes it's Purely Relational. To even say Allah is a form is to have a representation. I happen to think he's a Demon who became God but Allah is kind of a no brainer. I mean that as literally as humanly possible.

>>42590758
Edit: it's kind of like the ineffable One in Pythagoras

The Koran says he is great to be relied upon, for those who would rely. I don't rely. I see within myself. I'm more of an bodhi ein sof guy

>>42590758
>>42590770
This is the case in every esoteric framework like i said. It includes christianity and judaism, most of hindu religions and western pagan religions as well. So it's not an islamic thing.

Islam maintains a "non-personification" policy all through out the religion, but they're all the same, islam isn't special.

>>42590798
Trust me your concept of God as ineffable and beyond representation is 100% Islamic, beyond all dispute. Maybe you can tell Allah on the Day of Judgment that it wasn't Islamic? haha

I can spell it out for you since you do not have much of a Semitic prophetic spirit.

Hindu Brahman - Universal One, but something like non-duality in advaita vedanta. One God among Shiva and Vishnu/Krsna
Krsna - Divine Personality, has Avatars and is essentially Representation itself
Jesus - same as Krsna, Logos is binary not beyond duality
YHVH - four discrete elements after the ineffable ein sof has been compartmentalized into the 10 Spheriot

Allah is like the very tip of the Kether crown, the singularity so ineffable that it cannot and should not be represented.

>>42590822
I don't know what makes you think this. Islam is the newest framework of the abrahamic branch, the timeless, singular, ineffable soil was a concept before islam or Allah were born.

>>42590822
I even have text to support this:
>Your Lord raised his throne above the throne, and divided the heavens into 7

>>42590833
Because the only religion that believes God is beyond representation is Islam. And it's not a cursory point, their mold of Abraham is about how he broke his father's clay tablets. That was his first test

>>42590841
I will concede that advaita vedanta believes Brahman is beyond duality but that's more of a cursory sect and not a World Religion. What I'm saying is you have an Islamic Monotheist esotericism. And God is not your straw man

>>42590822
>>42590841
You used ein sof and keter to define Allah, you disproved yourself and i shouldn't have to keep on writing after this. But i'd be leaving out advaita, so i'll add that Nirguna Brahman has been ineffable since before Muhammad was born. The tao te ching rests upon ineffability and it's 600 BCE China. Like i've been saying, what you're pointing at isn't unique to islam, it's common in virtually every serious metaphysical tradition,

Don't bother pushing this unless you have a serious and specific argument, i won't go in circles.

>>42590868
I think you're just biased against Islam and you don't have the Spirit. For example you mention the Tao because it's older than God. We're talking about God.

>>42590895
It's an uplifting, Optimistic and not only that, but also prophetic, thing that I am suggesting to you. This is why Jesus used to end his sayings with, for those with ears to hear, let them hear. If you want to harden your heart to the Absolute most Optimistic Good News you will ever hear... That's your first test. I'm not trying to convert you but to make you realize that you are an Islamic Monotheist.

>>42590895
I'm not biased, that's why i used the term abrahamic, i don't care what you believe in, i care what you make of it publicly. I've presented my arguments. I'm not christian, jewish, muslim, hindu, buddhist, taoist, atheist. Don't try to find excuses there.

>>42590666
you could ask anyone this
What kind of fucking question is this?

Why do theists believe in a cosmic sadist who sends people to a torturous afterlife for something he already knew they'd do?

>>42590901
Yes what I believe is that in Mahdi-era Islam your belief would be accepted as Islamic Monotheism, provided you don't dispute that your ineffable Deity gave revelation to the Prophet Muhammad

It pretty much entirely hinges on willfully interpreting indifference as malice

In fact I'd even go so far as to say that Advaita Vedanta is Islamic Monotheism as long as they don't positively deny the prophecy of Muhammad (PBUH)

>>42590917
You're not getting the point at all. I've never tried to discredit islam, my point from the beginning is that an ineffable, singular, impersonal, non-dual "God" is something that's been a thing since way before islam. Yes, islam touches on it, not my point.

>>42590944
Yes but Allah has the transient Most High title, so your belief has the TITLE, Islamic Monotheism.

>>42590940
>indifference as malice
This is true though
Turning a blind eye to suffering when you could actually do something is pretty fucking evil

But please cite an example of a non-dual God before Islam. In fact I take back all that prophecy if you cite one single example.

>>42590969
Anon is confused. His Concept of God shows his God existed before Islam, but God did not exist before Islam.

This realm is either a prison planet or a fucked up experiment. Def NOT some beautiful garden or paradise. What kind of fucked up god makes a world that depends on you eating the blood and flesh of other dirty furry beings? What kind of fucked up place is this man.

>>42590960
Nah, Allah is a word that evolved from the "El", "Elohim" semitic root meaning "God", Allah came almost a millennia later when compared to the rest of the semitic deity iterations.

I don't know if you understand how time works, but you can't name something that already has a name if the name is in use. So no, you can't just name whatever you want "islamic monotheism"

>>42590988
Ok well I appreciate you being so froward. I am inviting you to textually cite one (1) single example of a non-dualistic God prior to Islam

>>42590991
So many to choose from, but i'll keep it in line for you.

Ahura Mazda

>>42590991
Zoroastrianism was dualistic between Light and Darkness. The Tao isn't a god or God, for it's in the Scripture that the mother is older than God. Islam's explicit innovation, basically its sole characteristic, as an advance over Zoroastrianism, is the belief that God is non-dual. You can vie

>>42590994
See I already had this typed out. >>42590999
You don't even know that Zoroastrianism is a dualistic religion. I have the #1 prophetic spirit on planet earth, you cannot dispute with me

Satan is Heavens shadow. He fell from heaven, the way a shadow falls. It's all part of the same unity, and contrast is needed. There is only the one and the Good. Shadows are lower but necessary forms.all flows back to the One

>>42591012
You're applying the Islamic Monotheist concept of God to Ahura Mazda. Obviously Ahura Mazda doesn't exist without Ahriman. You can't just worship Ahura Mazda, a conception of God must come from a religious Sphere, as a whole. Zoroastrianism is indisputably dualistic, in fact I'd say (this is the prophecy) that Ahriman beckoned you to say, The God of Light, in order to undermine that Light dualistic ally.

>>42590999
>>42591012
Isaiah 45:7, also, you don't understand how zoroastrianism works, in the gathas God is non-dualistic, dualism only applies to human ethics derived from the doctrine. Pretty much the same as with every religion nowadays, like i said in my first message. Exoteric followers are out of the loop.

>>42591042
Ok so cite a gatha, I'm all ears. You clearly don't have it together because you just cited the definition of dualism in Isaiah. It basically reads like you rolled your face on the keyboard and Isaiah 45 came up. If you can't cite the text don't say anything

>>42591042
>thinks his vanilla Islamic Monotheism is esoteric

>>42591057
Yasna 44:7 You have done nothing to defend your position and everything you ask for you can get yourself. I'm humoring you.

Islam is modern, there is no "monotheistic islam" as overarching model when there are older models already doing it. Stop being fucking annoying.

>>42591081
Just for any observers, here's the verse he has cited:
>7. This I ask Thee, tell me truly, Ahura. Who created together with Dominion the precious Piety? Who made by wisdom the son obedient to his father? I strive to recognize by these things thee, O Mazda, creator of all things through the holy spirit.

You call this annoying but you have me quote hunting and you completely 100% lied and pretended to cite a gatha, which literally says nothing at all about non-dualism. Actually, I'll use a different word, it's Abomination. How dare you pretend to cite a gatha, and I know it's Abomination because you did it twice, once with Isaiah, and once with Ahura Mazda. I'll just conclude the way the verse ends, that you're leaving it to the holy spirit.

>Sorcerers will find no Success

>To Him you shall return.

Om mani padme hum

>>42591100
This is literally a result of you being stupid. You don't understand isaiah 45:7 and you don't know what yasna 44 actually says. Zoroaster stating
>I strive to recognize Thee, O Mazda, by the Holy Spirit as the Creator of all things
If a God is the "creator of all things" there is no second creator, no rival deity and no equal entity. That's by definition a non-dual supreme creator.

You wanted a citation of a non-dual God prior to islam, you were given two, you're throwing a tantrum because they disprove your timeline. Or are you saying non-dual deification only became a thing with islam?

>>42591120
>This do I ask Thee, O Ahura and wish you to tell me truly. On which side should I stand, the true or false? Should I confer with false ones who commit evil actions, or with those who suffer from wicked persons? Has not the minds and hearts of the False Ones been covered with black covers of untruth that they spurn Thy precious gifts?

The holy spirit is a tertiary deity, are you that ignorant of the Spirit? It says Ahura Mazda created THRU the holy spirit. Islam has the same problem, because the Ruah is capitalized and reified. It doesn't say the holy spirit created the all. Read it again. If you can't get this far just stop

Ok so you have the super secret interpretation of Isaiah 45:7, I'm sure it's the ONLY and CORRECT interpretation, and furthermore you only know this verse because the CIA started posting it on /pol/ as an iron chariot 3 years ago. This Isaiah issue isn't even worth dealing with, your disingenuousness borders on Sin.

>If God is the creator of all things, there is no second creator
That describes Monotheism, and let's grant that the Ruah doesn't speak against Monotheism.

>No equal entity
Ok so Ahriman wasn't equal to Ahura. God it.

>You wanted a citation of a non-dual God prior to islam, you were given two
So dualism, God it

Now you know the holy spirit who is so dear to us

>>42591138
You seem to have a hard time delving into the esoteric body of frameworks. Let's use ones that are clearly non-dual and older than islam. The tao and Brahman.

There's no argument that will make those dualistic, i'm not gonna spend the night going in interpretative circles with you.

>>42590150
It elegantly solves the "paradox" of evil.

You look at the world, the Epstein files, overall corruption, the Earth being raped, genocide on sentient animals like cows and chickens as common as picking up apples from trees.
And you wonder : if God made the world, did he or she actually make that ?

Raised as a christcuck, nothing really sat with me. Did God knew or not that Adam and Eve would take the apple ? If they knew, why did they let it happen ? If they did not know, are they truly omniscient, then ?
This and all the gymnastics of "it's a test", "we are all sinners".

Don't even get me started on the other ones.

And then, you realize the Church systematically tried to silence a way of seeing the world with Sophia, Gnosis and all the rest. You realize that you NEVER heard in a movie, book or anything something even close to that way of seeing, simply that...There are different level of Gods and we the one we "got" is simply ignorant, tries his best but is ultimately flawed. Well, maybe Matrix.

But other than that...Doesn't it make sense ? The state of the world ? The fact that some people shine and that some part of the worlds don't ?

And you realize the notion of hylics, pneumatics and psychics...And truly, it clicks.

Just to Really get to the heart of the matter, Isaiah 45:7 says I create good and I create evil. Ok so the duality of good and evil. Now first deny the fundamental Zoroastrian concept of the duality of good and evil.
>Ahura Mazda has no equal
Ok good you're off to a great start, because every school child, including Nietzsche -- so, looking quite ahead, you can't say it was CIA schooling -- knows Zoroastrianism is a dualistic conception of the Deity.

Now say that the Jews actually took this verse standing alone, and taught that God creates evil. PERHAPS they come to this conclusion as the Devil is part of the Tree of Life. But they did not dwell on this verse. Ipso facto, you cited this verse because the CIA wants you to dwell on it.

>So I believe in Mind Control CIA 4chan gibberish
Yes, continue

Finally you say I'm "stupid" (I'm obviously very smart, and not only that, but also quite spiritually Apt), and "exoteric."

>expects everyone to agree with his *esoteric* conception of a God beyond conception

>>42591155
The Brahman wasn't non-dualistic until Advaita Vedanta adopted non-dualism from Buddhism. 7th Century. So if you have any form of discernment, you will see that Advaita Vedanta and Islamic Monotheism were concurrent inventions.

The Tao isn't God but I won't circle jerk with you.

Your beliefs:
>Brahman is non-dual
>The Tao is God
>Esotericism automatically trumps Exotericism
>Ahura Mazda is the holy ghost
>Good vs. Evil can be interpreted by a non-dualistic religious structure
>Ahriman is not equal to Ahura Mazda in ZOROASTRIANISM

Take this WIZARD

>>42591160

1) God is smarter than you and is powerful enough to make anything happen or not happen.
2) God is gooder than you.
3) Since 1 and 2 are true, whatever happens to you is the best possible outcome.
4) Suffering occurs when you do not know this and being wrong "argue with God" by not liking something, and so you suffer.

I understand God willed it but I would prefer not to argue with people who think the Tao is God and there are non-dualistic interpretations of the Good vs. Evil religious structure

In the future.

Ok I was going to leave but, I don't know how else to say this, I want you to dwell on this last thing I say because it will benefit you spiritually, and that's what you want.

You're taking your esoteric conception of God and applying it to past historical contexts in a way that makes little sense. We are discussing religious frameworks. Let's be frank, Zoroastrian is a dualistic religion. Let's be frank, the Tao is not a God. Let's be frank, for the Love of God!

What the fuck did this thread devolve into?

>>42590988
Elohim is gods, 3+ plural.

El (divine power, also used as a proper name of sorts for one specific god, husband of asherah, father of Baal, Yam, and Mot), Eloah (a deity), Elohayim (two gods), Elohim (more than 2 gods).

I often find these discussions fruitless because, as this thread shows, people will lose themselves in "theory" which is really just their personal opinions sprinkled with concepts and keywords. There's no orthodox, set definition that is brought up and kept consistently enough for the discussion to reach anywhere, and I'm starting to think it's actually the default. "Dualistic" or not, "Good or Evil", which of the two weights the most, it seems to all stem from personal experience really.

Some people accept nuance but are incapable of recognizing absolutes, whereas others are either on a good moment of their lives or on a difficult/terrible one, which obviously biases them towards either side of the moral spectrum.

Personally, I've felt what I can only (poorly) describe as a peaceful, innocent but also wise greater presence, whereas in other moments the feelings of despair, emptiness and helplessness towards my challenges prevail. I can imagine that the reason the feeling comes and goes is because of my "connection", for the lack of a better word, to the origin of it. On the other hand, the problems I face include loved ones being sick with no cure or treatment in reach and the systemic oppression we face without any aid, which makes me feel it's needlessly cruel for me to blame my "ability to connect", whatever this means. Alll in all, I doubt anyone will even read this, but the moments of solitude and helplessness are really rough. I wonder how to better navigate them, seems like talking about it with loved ones doesn't always work (and sometimes yields no answer).

Hope this thread survives the night, I'll see you guys tomorrow

Unfortunately, most Muslims go to Dajail

>>42591440
Oh shi- YHVH is dajail

File: mazda-rx-sports-car-stand(...).jpg (92 KB, 800x504)

92 KB JPG

The japanese name a car company after ahura mazda, they not get in trouble for that
https://newsroom.mazda.com/en/cars/

Btw, new methods can grow meat without animal suffering, pls research and promote these methods. Will greatly reduce future suffering. Impossible to stop meat consumption, but can create meat products without killing animals, also less environmental harm.

>>42591610
May all humans live without physical suffering and the causes of suffering
May all beings live without mental suffering and the causes of suffering
May all live happily
May all live in peace with each other

>>42591160
Cows and chickens are both sentient? I know they can be “lonely” and thrive with other cattle/chicken. Are you against eating all meat? Even humanely raised and fed well to provide for your family? I would never support mass produced meat. I am heavy meat eater and thought I’d kill myself if I ever got alpha gal syndrome. But for the first time ever I started to wonder if even organic grass fed and well taken care of animal meat could be “wrong”. I’ve been thinking about cheese and meat and what Jews and Muslims don’t do and I could relate more to the meat and cheese thing where you’re eating not only the animal but the milk of it also. Idk anymore anons, I do know veganism is literally terrible for you and essential amino acids in animals are necessary. I don’t wanna just eat fish either, and it’d be hard to give up muh cheeseburger but if an anon made a compelling case I’d consider it

>>42590967
This is pretty much exactly what I meant by willful interpretation. Indifference is neutral

>>42590150
P1 you have prefrences
P2 you cannot prefer to have your prefrences negated.
P3 preference negation is suffering.
P4 If you are not invulnerable to preference negation then you will suffer
C therefore creating a being with this type of structure necessitates suffering.

This proves God has no valid excuse to create suffering, unless it was to escape greater suffering which would make him non-omnipotent

>>42591666
bro hasn't fully realised that hurting animals is wrong. It seems your only hold out is the health aspect, which i know a bit about, so tell me which amino acids are not able to be obtained in sufficent quantities while vegan?

>>42591318
Spirituality is dumb. Human beings want to make sense of things so we have created religion, concepts such as God, but in the end of the day? Those things don't matter at all. It is all meaningless stuff which won't translate into anything good in our lives, unless you are the religious leader who is profiting from this word God and this concept. If that is the case then good for you, but if you are in the other end of this thing, if you are the faithful then you are being explored and you don't even care, if you cared you woud not have faith.