First of all, bear with me here. This is a genuine question.My friend and I were discussing the odd spiritual occurrences surrounding the thought of W.D. Gaster from Undertale (and probably Deltarune too, but we don't know for certain). From people dreaming of him before waking up to some sort of supernatural occurrence, such as a nosebleed or knocking on their window, to merely mentioning his name causing technological glitches and disturbances. It is really strange, and it got me thinking, is it possible that Gaster, the character, may be a real spirit or demon? I had two theories. Either he was a demonic entity evoked by Toby Fox, either on accident or on purpose. Or, the collective thought of the UTDR fandom surrounding Gaster spawned a tulpa of him into existence. I'm leaning towards the latter, because this is all recent stuff. There was no detection of demonic or spiritual presence surrounding him in the early days. Am I just being a dipshit and overthinking this? Or am I correct? Even outside of this, I feel the general question is still worth asking.
>>42632353I think w.d. 40gaster existed as demon or entity before undertale and deltarune faggotry
You are close to the truth but it's actually all of your theories and more. I think "tulpa" is essentially just egregore but not popular; it's a personal manifestation of a single mind and intent. Popular characters from every genre are all egregore, and you can speak to them as if they are the actual characters themselves. Whether that actually meets the criteria of *being* the character is up to your interpretation of metaphysics. I say no, they aren't exactly the character but they aren't completely separate from them either. The other issue is the real spirits and real demons can and will use these characters (masks) to talk to you. That doesn't mean you should be listening, however. The internet itself has been infected by numerous evil spirits over the decades, and mediums can probably feel their influence more strongly than the awakened. They are literally demons in the truest sense, and thus many of them spend their energy corrupting symbols that are loved by the masses. The parasitic algorithmic internet feeds the demons more strongly than ever before, but also the "good spirits" if they are given attention (mental energy). Interestingly, this aligns with many of the theories of Jacques Vallée. I would caution against naming them all demonic, but be discerning. Always.
>>42632353Yes anon, they're called Egregors.
>>42632353Tulpas sound neat but I advise against creating one. I did and it went rogue and became extremely verbally abusive. You can't even tell anyone because you sound totally schizo. It's unnecessary.
>deltatroonback to /v/
>>42632491Oh believe me, I'd never. Not purposefully anyway.
>>42632383>Interestingly, this aligns with many of the theories of Jacques Vallée.Haven't heard of any of that before, got a link or something? A book maybe?
Why do people so willingly accept that EVERYTHING /x/ is real?If I were to say, “One week of constipation results in the formation of a Poopa, an entity that seeks out and destroys the fiber of its creator’s enemies,” would you just be like, “Yeah, that’s real. Obviously.”Fucking sick of it. No, the demon from your video game is not real. Grow the fuck up. Shutting your brain off isn’t esoteric enlightenment, unsurprisingly.
>>42632582https://archive.org/details/jacques-f.-vallee-the-invisible-college-what-a-group-of-scientists-has-discoverehttps://archive.org/details/dimensionscasebo00jacq
>>42632587Some of us have done the work, Anon. Have you dived in yet? Do you still think it's all "LARP"? It doesn't matter if you're ready anymore. The phenomenon is real and it's waiting for you.
>>42632629Yes, I have “dived in.” I am now even more convinced that it’s all larp.Ancient people didn’t have the words yet to describe sophisticated abstract concepts. Retrospectively, their writing reads like they were communing with entities. No, they were just thinking. That’s the truth.
>>42632618Thanks brah
I have a theory that skinwalkers are just an egregore created by wild animals that have never seen humans before and either got startled by seeing one for the first time or freaked out by hiking influencers doing meme things in the forest for updoots. Also humans are apparently pretty weird and spooky looking to wild animals anyway.https://youtube.com/watch?v=EKXZqVzqWYEAnyway yeah I think op question is a fair question, because collective consciousness seems to spawn a lot of crazy shit into existence, and is the glue that holds normalcy together.
Surprised I've never seen a thread on here saying something like>Toby Fox is actually a knower guizeSome of the stuff and theming in Undertale and Deltarune seems RIPE for /x/ fags to start digging into and making all kinds of connections, real or imaginedWho knows, maybe he actually does know his stuff
>>42632587Shutting your brain off gets you pretty far...
>>42633014Is getting far your goal, or do you seek the truth?
>>42632978Toby's well-read on /x/ stuff by nature of being an RPG fan (SMT/Persona, the Xeno series, OFF, Final Fantasy, Moon RPG, Earthbound) and contributing to Homestuck. He's also a big fan of Twin Peaks and NGE.Gaster is meant to be the Demiurge crossed with Satan and the Cosmic Egg. The climax of Deltarune is building up to the characters escaping the confines of fiction.
>>42632353there's a guy on /v/ who's convinced Noelle is a fallen angel who gave Toby Fox the fever dream which inspired Deltarune so that she could enter our realityhttps://arch.b4k.dev/v/thread/742067359/#742081445
>>42633696It's probably not true, but honestly the idea of a spirit influencing a piece of media into existence so that they may take physical form is a really cool concept.
>>42632978Noelle's connection with Christmas as well as the crucifixion imagery in Chapter 2 is really intriguing to me, and makes me wonder if the final prophecy is her being sacrificed.
>>42632353Deltarune is a game that manifested when the Demon FurFur visited toby in 2012 and assaulted his dreams with visions of the end times that led him to get the motivation to make Undertale and Deltarune, Noelle is just a avatar of FurFur.
>>42632353>Deltarune is a mass ritual for Tricky Tony to empower/manifest his egregoresyeah sure I'll believe it
>>42632587I mean , tulpas have a lot of evidence , although tulpas aren't synonimos to egegors in this context , because those have almost no evidence.
>>42632655>Yes, I have “dived in.” I am now even more convinced that it’s all larp.>Ancient people didn’t have the words yet to describe sophisticated abstract concepts. Retrospectively, their writing reads like they were communing with entities. No, they were just thinking. That’s the truthnot the same anon , and to some degree their is something interesting in this direction , but man you have to be bad faith.you don't realise how this sounds stupid in context anon , do you really have no idea why what you said could sound really dumb.
>>42632353>>42632582I strongly suggest that you read Teil de Chardin's literary works on the concept of the noosphere. iirc he doesn't touch on egregores themselves, but he provides good reasoning as to how a collective consciousness could allow for this sort of thing. It's up to you how Gaster can be interpreted from there.
>>42633919This is nonsense, she is just deer girl and thats it
>>42634143>you’re literally right, but you have to be bad faith because you’re wrong! You’re superdy dooperdy wrong!k
>>42632353Realistically there is no reason to believe the creation of a tulpa based off of a fictional character throughout conciousness to be impossible - the question is simply about rather or not such a thing is supernatural collectivism or simply trickery of the brain for all things outside of us cannot be confirmed, the "knowledge" of a thoughtform stops being the clear right past the edge of our brain. Truly for this it is possible that a singular entity is creating millions upon millions of depictions in the human mind, and humanity only assumes it is a singular being because they assume there is something beyond themselves when in reality it is not. A concept shattered across time and space disconnected from the whole, only for you in His Deltarune.
anyone who likes deltarune will never be a magician
Is it a tulpa if it pretty much appears on its own? What if it stays for a decade?
>>42634137One thing I've noticed is that a tulpa tends to have a very specific form and associations with them (i.e a tulpa can be a sapient being in the form of a character or an animal or maybe even take on other forms) and even have a clear purpose (companionship being one of the biggest reasons people create tulpas, while egregores are very broad and abstract (faith, the state, authority, etc.) and tend to be almost exclusively emergent (i.e religious sects didn't set out to create egregores, neither did countrymen or families or communities. Dark occultists though probably socially engineer groups into adopting beliefs and practices that would result in egregores).While it might be easier to have direct evidence of a tulpa, an egregore would be like studying extrasolar planets: You can't measure or study them directly (some exceptions exist, but the data's largely incomplete), so you have to study them based on their effects on the primary star (variable luminosity, wobbling, etc). You would probably be able to compile useful information on egregores based on the effects they have on collective consciousness (i.e this group with this egregore tends to believe in X, tends to do Y, and is affected by Z).
>>42634918This is something I've been working on, and I think one way to "vet" such entities would be to study their background:Are they affected by you to the point where their thought-processes can be thrown off if you have a bad day or aren't feeling well?Are they drawing from your experiences and memories?Are they directly based on elements from your imagination or things you created? Do you think of these things often, do they play roles in imaginary scenarios?Also consider how they interact with you:Are they curious about you and what you think, feel or do? Do they ask questions?Do they volunteer information (if possible)? A tulpa in its "infancy" might not have the faculties to properly communicate with you.What is their attitude toward you? Do they show a sincere vested interest in you, your wellbeing and the pursuit of activities and goals you find meaningful?Do they support you? If you're having doubts about something, do they offer their viewpoint in an attempt to help you resolve your issues? If you're faced with a moral dilemma, do they put in effort to be a legitimate moral compass (one reasonable litmus test would be whether or not they treat a moral dilemma as a zero-sum game)?If these criteria are met, I'd say there's a reasonable chance that you're dealing with a tulpa. However, it's best to approach the matter with caution, as there are probably astral fags out there that have no problems impersonating a tulpa in order to fuck with people. If anyone here knows any other vetting methods, I'm curious to know more.
When I was twelve I thought "maybe slenderman is real because people made an egregore from all the stories" but it turns out slenderman is not real and I just wished reality was more cool than it is. Eventually you'll figure out internet mystics are people who latch onto unfalsifiable worldviews that make paranormal things seem just plausible enough to make them suggestible for self hypnosis and that's the extent of magic. Don't be some retard trying to convince himself an undertale character is real. The sooner you get used to how mundane reality is the more appreciative you will be of the things that manage to make you happy.
