>>42661096great bodhisattva who saw through the bullshit.also an irresponsible drunk and deadbeat dad who lived on a houseboat.makes you think.
>>42661096Pretty cool guru
Alan Watts is heavily criticized for all sorts of reasons: psyops, new age, substance (ab)use, lack of academic rigor, misrepresenting religion, absent father, cheater and what not.However there are at least two mysterious things going on with Alan Watts that no one ever talks about. The first thing is that Alan Watts perfectly summarizes a lot of well known and well appreciated philosophical works from the 20th century and earlier, which probably has something to do with the fact that he actually personally knew a lot of philosophers like Carl Jung, Suzuki, David Bohm and many more, which is very mysterious, because his autobiography does not give a clue about how he could've possibly connect with all these famous guys and even more mysterious: there's a website which suggest that many of those kind of people were part of some kind of government funded institution. The second mysterious thing about Alan Watts is that much of his lectures and writings have deeper layers for those who know but most critics and fans of Alan Watts only understand him in a superficial way. Nowadays, much of what he said is more true than it already was back then yet he never receives credit for any idea that modern academics have plagiarized from him.
>>42661204> Alan Watts, Carl Jung, Suzuki, David BohmThey must’ve lost out to the Einstein and Oppenheimers
>>42661536what the fuck does that even meanphysics and metaphysics are very different domains despite sharing a root
>>42661749> physics and metaphysics are very different domainsOnly when you don’t understand themSome day your comprehension will improve to the level necessary to understand
>>42661536Not necessarily. Their teachings were not about actively resolving conflict, but about seeing the dialectic nature of life to avoid the paradox of fighting to win a war. With such a worldview every win and los seems only temporary.
>>42661749The other anon was probably talking about the dialectics between prickly (rigorous minded) people and gooey (fluid minded) people which in terms of physics refers to the particle/wave duality and the measurement problem but since that subject has been botched by schizos let me put in other terms: because of the pantsu rhei nature of life, the mind with its dualistic logic and reason and terms and definitions can't adequately capture the nature of life analogous to how a container can't capture the nature of water.
>>42661096>of course there's no free will; and it has to be this way, if we want to allow nature to do its thingevery now and then he would tease like this, and i really dig this style.i know some stuff, but certainly not what he implies
>>42661096Gifted orator, but retarded. Everyone just uses his words to give up in life. Even he did. That’s what he missed: human nature. Speaking about ideals, accurately and elegantly, leads to hell in the hands of the ignorant.
>>42661204>Carl Jung, Suzuki, David Bohm and many more,Those guys probably visited Alan not vice versa. If you're popular in a field and dont network people reach out to you. Especially if your work is valid and valuable
>>42661096Faggot. No original content.
>>42662033??We seem to have read or heard a different Alan Watts. Yes he said we're like a kid with a plastic steering wheel in the passenger seat and that we don't want control anyway because that would be boring like having sex with a doll, but he also talked about the game of hide & seek (forgetting that we're it and remembering again), about sailing with the wind, about the ambiguity of do you do it or does it do you and overall he dissolved the dichotomy between determinism and free will.
>>42662072It raises more questions though. For example: I strongly suspect that Alan Watts and Jean Baudrillard knew eachother because Alan Watts was very outspoken about reality being replaced by a symbolic world. Alan Watts was also very outspoken about popular belief lagging behind the development in physics from a Newtonian (rigorous) worldview to a quantum mechanical (fluid) worldview which was a favorite talking point of Bohm as well and Bohm has recorded lectured of him having a discussion with J. Krishnamurti. Yet neither Baudrillard or even Bohm ever mentioned Alan Watts as far as I know. Why is that? Why of all philosophers with similar ideas has Alan Watts disappeared into the background?
>>42662103https://youtu.be/DR5n2H6Jehg?t=12he said it differently in another video
>>42661773no, you're retardedlearning the ins and the outs of the system does not tell you everything about the system's capabilities nor its sourcesee: godel, the hard problem of consciousness, the unfalsifiability of divinityEinstein and Oppenheimer figured out some beat ways to conceptualize and perform tricks within the system respectively. they didn't know shit about what Suzuki was speaking ofyou are at the peak of the dunning-kruger curve acting like you know something
>>42662158He just didn't promote himself like that its like why do underground rappers or bands who tour with big name artist still get left in the underground? Alan probably coukd have taken it "on the road" but he chose to stay more esoteric and to himself. Look at Terrence McKenna for example he was excited to tell EVERYBODY everything he knew and talked for hours and hours about crazy shit if he was alive today he'd probably have a podcast about DMT elves. Alan would be doing intimate talks with small crowds at Burning Man or he would be even more low key talking at Rainbow Family Gatherings.
>>42661096He described of the most beautiful word picturesin this video;https://youtu.be/3zh_fZIZccQ [Embed]I don't see this as a metaphor for some grotesque 'everyone all at once' karmic situation. I see this as a beautiful scene which conveys the ecstatic life of Divine Solipsism.Extremely beautiful video. Reminds me of home.I am God, this is my dream.
>>42661777You’re generalizing and missing the nuance I told you didn’t understand
>>42662282 I never said it tells you everything faggotI said that physics and metaphysics are the same fieldsEinstein didn’t understand metaphysics because he looked at them the same way you do retardYou literally are making my pointYou’re reading comprehension is horrible
>>42661777>>42662282 whole system of thinking is flawed I’m sorry to pick on you guys because you’re just repeating what you’re taught in school but your left brain/right handed reductionist world view is only correct in your head.The mystics and shamans have known this forever. You can’t separate spirit and science. Einstein isn’t wrong as much as he’s incomplete. “Spooky action at a distance” = everything in the universe is contained in tiniest fraction of an atomBohm knew this because he was a scientist and mystic, Suzuki, Watts, etc were too. Einstein separated the two the way you do, you guys have an incomplete understanding of these subjects to see it that way
>>42661096A true GOAT.
I could never really get into Alan Watts its all a bit too new agey for me. Alan Watt is my preferred of the two Alans, his books are interesting although apparently he borrowed a lot of his idea from Glen Kealey and never gave credit so he was a bit if a grifter. They even look the same. Maybe they are clones.
If he never existed, how would that affect your life? I've lived a pretty good life without every listening to him.
>>42662551I understand better than you ever will. You are a victim of the Dunning-Kruger effect and if you go just the tiniest bit farther you'll be humbled.You should go farther.>>42662562what you're saying is retarded.>>42662587Entirely false. Nothing in a scientific way of thinking can even explain why consciousness is an extant phenomena, to say nothing of deeper truths revealed by introspective practice. Similarly you will never meditate your way into formulating quantum mechanics.They are different projects with different means and methods producing different truths about the same reality.Anyone who disagrees on this point is simply wrong and too attached to their current understanding to let go. It is a hindrance to you. Drop it and keep seeking.
>>42661129Thats interesting. I could see how once you become spiritually advanced enough and see the world for what it is it would be easy to ignore responsibilities. Not condemning or condoning him but I get it.
>>42662924yeah I mean I can't really fault an awakened man for his choices. he knows shit I don't, so what the fuck do I know? can't say his choices are ones I would make though
>>42661096Sold poisoned pills covered in suger
>>42661204My theory is people in the CIA took a bunch of acid and because they were extremely intelligent and highly competent agents well-versed in psychological tools and psychological arts the trips were far more potent on a spiritual degree. They either genuinely or deceitfully became these teachers and masked their prior association with the CIA, and either the CIA funded this entirely or only some of them genuinely turned coat while others pretended to in order to keep tabs, etc. Spookshow shit.
>>42663002Without elaboration this post is a waste of Hiro's precious kb to just insult someone.
>>42661096I didnt really agree about his lifestylehe was a good yapper but hes not the type of guy id like to be as a family man
>>42661096I love the lad. I wonder did he learn something that turned him to drink?
>>42663068What would be the goal of such an operation? Of course I understand the (orthodox christian) criticism that he may have facilitated the decline of society with moral relativism and dissolution of boundaries, but again that's a superficial way to understand what Alan Watts and many like him were saying.>I wonder did he learn something that turned him to drink?If you have the eyes to see and ears to hear it there are some very dark themes in his writings and lectures that audiences overlook because superficially he's understood as a "don't worry, be happy" kind of guy. For example: he often talked about the double bind like desiring not to desire, the Von Kleist bear, parents commanding their children to play and the art of the sly man. There's an aspect of Gurdjieff's work and even a hint of Castenada's Predator in the teachings of Alan Watts. However, Alan chose to make light of the trap or he would have scared the normies.
>>42663328what does one do once they've cleared out their karma, seen past the veil, sorted themselves out and learned the lessons they're given in this life?>enjoy yourself cause why not
>>42664113If you enjoy the world after liberation you are still attached to the 5 skhandas. You should just sit (zazen) because it maintains freedom from negative Karmic consequences
>>42664117This is a scriptural QED because the Diamond Sutra says the transformation of a world is no transformation.
>>42664117the awakened man does not ignore causality.skhandas, karma, these things are not zen.Just sitting? there is work to be done. water to carry, wood to chop.you can't tell me Mazu didn't enjoy dinner.
>>42663864I never took the traps to be a dark feature - at worst an absurd one, but ultimately they're just what it is. nothing you can do, nothing you can not do. Chinese zen (chan) was basically just the act of magnifying this absurdity as a training method
>>42664277It's easy to think that as a middle aged adult with a comfortable middle class lifestyle, but the double bind inherent to society is harming children and young adults, possibly scarring them for life. Alan Watts joked about how psychotherapy functions as a surrogate for a rite of passage into adulthood by deconditioning all the previous conditioning. It's a teaching he has in common with J. Krishnamurti: it's no measure of health to be well-adjusted to a sick society.So basically first we are physically, mentally and spiritually damaged and after that we're coping by laughing at the absurdity of life. I don't think that's a funny joke but Alan Watts insists that when we are God and get to choose how we want to live we will choose, after many lifetimes of luxury and adventure, to forget that we are God and let ourselves be born into a random life like we are now living, because Gods wants a surprise. Well as long as I don't feel like I'm God I don't like this game and no amount of "don't worry, be happy" is going to solve that.
>>42664465You make good points.I think Alan's analogy of preserving meat by oversalting it and then later soaking salt out is instructive here. you see the same thing in any discipline - good pedagogy often involves strict adherence to rigid rules and guidelines until you're well-versed enough to know when its ok to ignore the rules.I don't think it can be argued that we'd all be better off if children weren't socialized at all. A lighter hand, perhaps. but for society to hold together, the boundless spirit of a toddler has to be reined in to some degree. we're seeing the consequences of a relative lack of that in America with the rise of "gentle parenting" and devices as a substitute for being a present parent.in a way it goes back to yin and yang. duality is false because you can't have one without the other. no good people without suffering along the way. no childhood free of suffering without turning out bad people. no sukkha without dukkha, or light without shadow - "total light annihilates itself" as Alan once said.
>>42661129Based and kingly.
>>42661204>much of his lectures and writings have deeper layers for those who knowGo on. You can veil it.
>>42662053This is why the serpents reign supreme. The masses must be lied to. The failure of the Enlightenment (I'm not being facetious) downright proves this. Modernity itself is but an outgrowth of society's recognition of the failure of the romantic ideal of the Enlightenment. Not a conspiracy by the elite, but the logical outcome of the death of an Age. It's fucking over for normies. Now we move from regular automation into the truly hyper real economy. Let's see how the 'humans' will treat each other now that the panopticon is made exoteric. Bunch of weasels pretending to have a conscience- these 'humans'. No wonder we get reptiles for elites. All is as it should be. The wheel turns. Birds sing. Rivers run red.
>>42662158Baudrillard is way more rigorous.>>42662469McKenna is from an establishment family and a self admitted govt shill. Gnostic media published the recording years ago.
>>42661096pseud and potentially CIA sponsored
>>42663068>some of them genuinely turned coatno such thing as a turncoat CIA agent. and if it was true, you wouldn't know about them. >>42664465he was wrong, so you don't have to worry
>>42663328often, it can be due to pure genetics, many 'enlightened' gurus, like Watts, or Trungpa, were crazy alcoholics. I think its just how their brain is hardwired.. Enlightenment doesn't mean you escape the human meatsuit.
>>42662924You still completely miss the mark.You don't have responsabilities. You don't have any obligations to ever do anything. AT ALL. You were not born a slave, you were raised to become one.
>>42664465> as long as I don't feel like I'm God I don't like this game and no amount of "don't worry, be happy" is going to solve that.well, think about watching a horror flick - a really good one is going to truly upset and disturb you, and you chose that. if you remember you're just watching a movie, that undercuts it
>>42664605weakness of spirit
>>42664620a Buddha has the responsibility to awaken others.there is no such state as that of having no responsibilities, only one of choosing not to take them on.
>>42664625lol nigga shut up.animals get drunk off rotting fruit.psychoactive use in and of itself has no moral dimension. moralizing about it is stupid.
>>42664251You're right, it's just the wavelength I'm on. You're right once you clear the desire you can enjoy life. Just the wavelength I'm on. You're also spot on with the not being free of karma. Though I've seen that turn of phrase before, the koan about the guy who turns into a fox said he was free of karma and the Master corrected him and said the sage is immanent in the laws of karma.
>>42664675exactly. it's a very instructive case
>>42664495I think the issue is not so much about the pros and cons of conditioning versus no conditioning, but about conditioning sincerely aimed at the greater good versus conditioning in the interest of authority with the pretense of the greater good. For example: the education system is obviously aimed at raising obedient human beings rather than aimed at raising human beings who are happy, healthy, wealthy, skilled, intelligent, creative and so on. It's a terrible tragedy that the potential of each generation is wasted and we keep doing it. >>42664621>if you remember you're just watching a movie,Except no one remembers. No innocent person who is made to suffer and die horrendously enjoys their movie while it's happening. Only in your imagination they wake up to enjoy the spiritual world or the next reincarnation.
>>42664620Yeah yeah blah blah. Sounds cute but in practice they saddle you with legal responsibilities etc.- takes really bold moves to break out, not just 'rejecting' the 'responsibilities'. When they have the law over you its literally an obligation. You might have to leave the country. Nta
>>42664635Silence, weak drunk child
>>42664605
>>42664508I don't have the best examples at hand right now, but I was just reading The Book on The Taboo against knowing who you are. Look at the following passages. He's basically saying he knows the playbook but he's veiling it with talk about duality.>In any foreseeable future there are going to be thousands and thousands of people who detest and abominate Negroes, communists, Russians, Chinese, Jews, Catholics, beatniks, homosexuals, and dope-fiends. These hatreds are not going to be healed, but only inflamed, by insulting those who feel them, and the abusive labels with which we plaster them—squares, fascists, rightists, know-nothings—may well become the proud badges and symbols around which they will rally and consolidate themselves. Norwill it do to confront the opposition in public with polite and nonviolent sit-ins and demonstrations, while boosting our collective ego by insulting them in private. If we want justice for minorities and cooled wars with our natural enemies, whether human or non-human, we must first come to terms with the minority and the enemy in ourselves and in our own hearts, for the rascal is there as much as anywhere in the "external" world—-especially when you realize that the world outside your skin is as much yourself as the world inside. For want of this awareness, no one can be more belligerent than a pacifist on the rampage, or more militantly nationalistic than an anti-imperialist.1/2.
>>42664862It is thus that religions and non-religions—all established in the name of brotherhood and universal love—are invariably divisive and quarrelsome. What, for example, is more quarrelsome—in practical politics—than the project for a truly classless and democratic society? Yet the historical origin of this movement is mystical. It goes back to Jesus and Saint Paul, to Eckhart and Tauler, to the Anabaptists, Levelers, and Brothers of the Free Spirit, and their insistence that all men are equal in the sight of God. It seems almost as if to be is to quarrel, or at least to differ, to be in contrast with something else. If so, whoever does not put up a fight has no identity; whoever is not selfish has no self. Nothing unites a community so much as common cause against an external enemy, yet, in the same moment, that enemy becomes the essential support of social unity. Therefore larger societies require larger enemies, bringing us in due course to the perilous point ofour present situation, where the world is virtually divided into two huge camps. But if high officers on both sides have any intelligence at all, they make a secret agreement to contain the conflict: to call each other the worst names, but to refrain from dropping bombs. Or, if they insist that there must be some fighting to keep armies in trim, they restrict it to local conflicts in "unimportant" countries. Voltaire should have said that if the Devil did not exist, it would be necessary to invent him.2/2.
>>42661096>Alan WattsDr. Percival Amperage
>>42664754>Except no one remembers. well, not quite no one. there are buddhas in the world even today
>>42664776I don't even drink. you're just retarded.moral posturing over an activity with no moral dimension.your need to feel superior to others is a hindrance. the fact that this is the tool you use to satisfy that need is pathetic.
>>42664632As a Buddha myself, today's class of cretins deserve a Great Flood more than a Great Awakening. Peace Love Dope!>returns to life as a wooden buddha
>>42665388you are not awakened.
Pseud chud for sure but I used to really like him and he helped me out a lot. Mostly once you sit with him a while and get exposure to other stuff in the space he ends up being shallow without much leverage to help one rise. Basically a lot of the same problems as stoicism with an easterly flair
>>42665512he's a gateway drug to eastern esotericism.which is in fact exactly what he was trying to be.keep in mind that prior to him Zen was not really a thing in the west. (it's still not, but it's better now than it was)
>>42663328Honestly probably came to realise that most ‘moral disciplines’ are to keep the slave populace in line.
>>42664533Are you saying normies need religion to be kept in line so they don't harm others?
>>42666002kinda, yeahconsider how many hardcore religious people argue something like "without religion, where does your morality come from?" as though it's some killshot argumentmany people are unable or unwilling to conceive morality that doesn't proceed from some authority who has power over them
>>42666008but many of those same people take authority from others as well, just not religion. also it's impossible not to harm someone somewhat. it's human nature and it's hard to avoid stress. you could say something and accidentally make someone upset. hedonists also love this kind of thinking because it justifies everything and anything. people also start inventing their own rules and definitions of harm. i don't think it's possible to avoid. i've thought about hypocrisy a lot and i think the only way to avoid it completely is to remove yourself. only problem is that this harms the people who care about you and could affect others as well. if we could all live together in peace and harmony that would be great, but i don't think we can do that.
>>42666002Im the anon u responded to. Im saying normies need to be herded like cattle and periodically culled like dogs to appease the drunken gods of bloodshed. Which has been happening all along, it's just being made manifest.
>>42665489You have no business deciding whether or not someone else is enlightened. You don't even have the authority to determine that for yourself, much less anyone else. Go back to Christianity, retard. They need you there more than we need you here.
>>42661096Watts possessed a rare, charismatic ability to translate complex concepts from Buddhism, Taoism, and Hinduism into witty, accessible insights for mainstream audiences. His lectures and books deeply influenced the 1960s counterculture movement and remain widely celebrated across global digital platforms today.- The Illusion of the Separate Self: Watts taught that the feeling of being an isolated ego trapped inside a bag of skin is a cultural hallucination. He argued that human beings are not foreigners dropped into the universe, but rather an intrinsic expression of it—much like how waves are an expression of the ocean.- Life as Play: He strongly rejected the Western notion that life is a grueling test or a race toward a finish line. Instead, he viewed existence as a musical or cosmic game where the entire point of dancing or listening to music is the act itself, rather than arriving at the end of the song.- The Present Moment: Echoing Eastern mindfulness practices, Watts emphasized that the past is a memory, the future is an expectation, and only the "here and now" truly exists. Suffering arises when people take their anxieties and societal roles too seriously instead of engaging fully with the present.- Symbols vs. Reality: He frequently reminded his audiences that "the menu is not the meal" and "money is not real wealth," cautioning people against confusing abstract societal measurements (like time and currency) with the vibrant textures of actual life.Today, his voice remains highly active in modern culture; his extensive lecture archives are curated by the Alan Watts Organization and featured prominently on Spotify podcasts, ambient lo-fi music albums, and viral social media videos
>>42666029why though?
>>42666037you are not awakened.
>>42665722Yeah that tracks, I guess after reading 4 of his books and listening to 120 hours of lecture I had been unsure of what his real end was other than content communication. But I ended up getting a ph.d. in philosophy which I almost certainly would not have done without his influence at age 15 so I guess he's still working his magic.
>>42666037Enlightenment comes from without. You can still dope yourself up and believe anything you like doe>>42665054>being a drunk has no moral dimension Very entertaining self delusion you got there
>>42666037>You don't even have the authority to determine that for yourselfAwakening is unmistakable when it occurs.
>>42666116Are you playing, or illiterate? Because the Enlightenment failed. Do some research. There was an ideal. It was put to the test. Humanity failed the test. A few (very few) passed it. Those few are let free; the mass must be treated like what they are- animals.
>>42666330drinking alcohol and "being a drunk" are two different things.
>>42666330>self delusionall delusions are self delusions. you're retarded.you think you're a lot smarter than you are.
>>42661129>deadbeat dadthe buddha left his family also."responsibility" was one of mara's temptations.
>>42666037>You have no business deciding whether or not someone else is enlightened.and yet that's exactly what he did
>>42669306He was free to believe I am not a buddha, and to decide that that belief was somehow absolute truth, but I am a buddha actually. Peace Love Dope!>Reenters stone buddha mode
>>42667940holy shit... this hit for me
QRD on this boomer? I remember watching vids with his audio back in the 2010s but nothing stuck because i was trying to get money and pussy.
>>42670506>because i was trying to get money and pussyWell? Did you get it??
>>42661096I think any dude who dresses like that is selling you snake oil, or trying to get pussy, or both at the same time.
>>42670959he sold snake pussy
I do not believe in a permanent self, allegedly that is partially enlightened. If there is an existence after the body perishes, it is as a pure awareness, not a physical rebirth.I do not think anyone is trapped or tricked into reincarnating.
