Everything is conscious. The only thing we lack because of the qualia itself is the ability to read the syntax that rules the other form of consciousness o_O
>>42664960>Be Demiurge>Notice people following good synchronicities>Notice quantum computing>t. That's Me, GodThe Thread
>>42664960I will give an argument against Pan, I will come back later
>>42664995Of course it's le demiurge. All forms of conscious are equals if they're stuck in the same level of reality. Quick reminder that a reality is defined by its own space, timeline and narrative structure
>>42664960Define conscious
>>42665036okconsider this:1. Its most likely to be born in India.2. its the same likelihood to be born male as femaleThe prior probability of me being born in India (god forbid), is the population of India over the population of the world.The prior probability of me being born male, is the population of males over the population of males and females. 50/50Generally speaking the prior probability that you are born with the property X is, the number of people which have X over the population sizeNow Panpsychism:consciousness can basically be divided into partials and the more "Complex" form of consciousness (like though ideas such as panexperientialism) can be found in organisms; but anyways the important point is that there are way way way more particles than organisms. As an estimate there is 10^80 particles in the observable universe and an estimate of all the organisms that have ever lived is around 10^50 or smaller, and that figure is dominated by bacteria. anyways, what is the prior probability that you have an organism of complex humanlike consciousness granting Panpsychism? it would be around 10^50 over 10^80 + 10^50. the prior probability would work out to 1 over 10^30. which I like fucking minuscule, like tiny tiny, like really small, like incy bitsy. matter of fact Mathematicians and scientists use thresholds called "improbability principles." A probability of 10^-30 is so close to zero that, for any practical application, it is ignored.So the prior probability of one self having the complex consciousness of an organism granting Panpsychism is, 1 over 10^30. So Panpsychism predicts that you will not have an organism experience of reality, but it overwhelmingly predicts that you will have a particles experience of reality, however you are an organism So Panpsychism has made a failed prediction, this strongly disconfirms Panpsychism
>>42665501Just a note Panpsychism isn't necessarily disconfirmed by the existence of organisms experiencing reality in general its that Panpsychism predicts that YOU yourself should be a practical and sadly you are not
>>42665501>>42665504anyways I would like to hear a response; idealism is better btw
>>42665501It would be correct if you would assume that consciousness is the proprety of an organism. However consciousness is a proprety that we find absolutely everywhere even beyond matter. Each particle has its own consciousness AND also every bond formed by each one of them. For example you would say that I have one consciousness but IT is wrong. There are billion of them that creates mine. As I may create billion of consciousness with mine without realizing it. They all exist in the same reality. So the number of consciousness is always bigger than matter itself. Also there is a possibility that in fact all consciousness converge toward one (but we're getting somewhere else here )
>>42665661I say >Why do YOU experience organism-consciousness when particle-consciousness is 10^30 times more statistically likely?You say>You have both!you'd now need to explain why you're one of the rare entities with both, and why organism-level consciousness dominates your experience so there is thatI am critiquing panpsychism then you go on and say "beyond matter."????Welcome to idealism ig
>>42665757Oh oh, You're absolutely not a rare entity. There is not such thing as a hierarchy between the consciousness from the same level of reality ( we could argue on the one big and only conscioussness that may exist nevertheless).Each system has its own qualia. This is what NPC don't understand, they will tell you that only humans are conscious. You have this feeling of importance as a human but so is the phone you're interacting with. You see yourself touching the phone but the phone "sees" itslef touching you. Each particle interacts with you with its own conscious. There is absoluetly not any domination of the experience because the system [me + the keyboard ] is already a consciousness even if its lifetime is a few seconds. Now you can apply this law for each possible interactions between matter.Organism and particle consciousness are only 2 possibilities between the billions that exist in the universe. The domination doesn't exist since it is all subjective, it is all what qualia is about
>>42665852I will respond to your unorthodox version of Panpsychism when you tell me what "beyond matter." means under Panpsychism lmao
