As a vessel cannot be full of itself, one who is full of themselves will remain hollow.'Do what thou wilt' is the motto of the blind for they only look inwards.
What is hate?What is love?As below, so above?What is black?What is white?What is wrong, and what is right?What is a lie?What is truth?What is old, and what is youth?What is divine?What is profane?What is pleasure, and what is pain?What is real?What is fake?What is to give, and what is to take?What is peace?What is war?What is less, and what is more?What is dark?What is light?What is blindness, and what is sight?---'I look at you and call you my name.For I am a god, and you are profane!'See ye not that these are your words?Oh, you wayward swingers of swords.Ye blind guides.
>>42693933Do what thou wilt is dissociative continuity.
>>42693938finally someone speaks the truth. solipsism is truth. i am the real one. not youyou are me, i am not you. accept this.there is no other truth than me.accept that i am the king.
>>42693933>one who is full of themselves*himself
>>42693971>>42694096We stand around the edge of eternity all made equally low by the infinitude of ALMIGHTY GOD.
>>42694096##Then why did you make yourself locked into a human form on a disturbingly flawed world with no escape latch or way to wait or adjust it or clear memory?
>>42694348To further the existence of my own creation. Duh.
How can I fill myself with love and be loved by someone?
>>42693933the word is the lifehttps://m.youtube.com/watch?v=ULHkNLveXZs&ra=m
>>42693933>look inwardSo uhh, are these 'fools' the most introspective people around? Seems counterintuitive
>>42694377##Lmao do your word salads actually work on you.
>>42694424Remember that love when given with the expectation of reciprocation is not love, but selfishness.As we are all hypocrites, we condemn ourselves in the judgement of others.Compassion is sight.>>42694447>only
>>42694457Is anything working for you?
>>42694447If you find introspection so valuable, how much more valuable the introspection of all?
>>42694447Furthermore, those who seek only their own will will never find the wisdom revealed in the experience of others.
If you’re a solipist why do you need to dodge a question from a non being by asking the non being a question?You basically just admitted it’s a giant cope that goes nowhere for you. LARP.
As a lightbulb cannot be illuminated without electricity, nor a candle produce light without a flame, we cannot expel either the darkness that surrounds us, or within, without the Gospel of Jesus Christ setting our hearts and minds alight.
>>42693933The darker it gets the more we search for true light.Why are both truth and love called light?One illuminates the mind, the other, the heart.JESUS CHRIST is both.That is why He Is The Light of the World.He is the manifested Will of GOD; The Word;Truth.He is the perfect innocent gift of mercy through self-sacrifice.Love.That is why Christ is the very Life that sustains us.
>>42693933Neither Judaism nor Islam can reconcile God's justice with His mercy.Without Jesus Christ, one must be ignored for the other.
>>42696983How then can God be both merciful *and* just?Consider a man who stands before a judge after having committed a crime.That man's crime is not made directly against that judge personally, but against the laws of their country and society.If the judge forgives the man and pardons him, then retribution and justice have been ignored for the sake of mercy.However, when a man sins, he has committed crime against God directly and personally.This is because he has broken the Law of God, which is itself an extension of God's Will.To break God's Law is to directly transgress against the very essence of the Personhood of God Himself.Fortunately for us, since we have transgressed directly against God, He has the Authority and Right to forgive us.Then for Him, for Retribution to take place, *He willingly suffered* the penalties due to us for our sins for the express purpose that Justice could be done for the allowance of His Mercy through forgiveness, so that He may be further Glorified by His Love for us.But, if a person decides to reject that payment of Justice and Mercy, when they stand before the Judgement Seat of God, Divine Retribution must fall upon that person's head for their transgressions, that God's Justice may be satisfied.
>>42693933>The TrinityHow can The Father, The Son, and The Holy Spirit be three distinct persons but still One God?If you have three persons who are all called God, then you would have to apply every attribute of God to all three persons just as they are described in the Bible.They would all have to be omnipotent, omniscient, omnipresent, the creator, the sustainer, perfectly righteous, perfectly just, loving, merciful, truthful, faithful, unchanging, eternal, infinite, Holy, The Most High.Only the first 3 attributes listed here are needed to understand the Triunity of God.Omnipotence, omniscience, and omnipresence.A question that many Christians find difficulty answering when asked is, "How can The Father, Jesus The Son, and The Holy Spirit all be God if there is only One God?"On the surface of this question it would seem to be an impossibility according to logic that we understand.How can three be one?If you apply the attribute of omnipotence to all three persons, then you may realize that a paradox could occur.Hypothetically, imagine a scenario in which two of these omnipotent persons took an action against each other.Whose will would prevail?If they were both truly omnipotent, then it must be that both would prevail, but that would be an impossibility.It would, at this point, seem that two or more omnipotent persons that have distinct wills could not exist at the same time.However, a solution to this paradox is formed once you begin to apply the rest of the attributes of God to these persons.If all three persons are omniscient, then they would all be wisdom itself, and knowledge itself.They would, all three, have perfect understanding of all things, including the will of each other.Having perfect knowledge, the decisions and actions of all three would be in perfect agreement in all ways.Therefore, the paradox of omnipotence would never occur.In fact, it is this paradox of omnipotence that becomes the impossibility....
>>42696986...Next, look at the attribute of omnipresence.This answers the question that is the most difficult to reconcile with our logic.How can three be one?If these three persons are all omnipresent, then that would mean that all three of them exist perfectly and entirely within each other in every place and in every way.They would seemingly be separate to us, but one in truth.They all three occupy, within each other, The Most High place, that is, the Throne of God, in perfect unity.The Father exists perfectly and entirely within both the Son and The Spirit.The Son exists perfectly and entirely within both the Spirit and The Father.The Spirit exists perfectly and entirely within both the Father and The Son.
>>42693933What is a Jew but the vehement denial of Jesus Christ?
>>42693933What is a Muslim but a blind guide to a stone pit?
>>42693933"Do what thou wilt" is just a gay way of saying to do whatever comes naturally to you and your desires and to follow your own path. The problem with this statement is that it's often used to encourage disgusting and immoral behavior like hedonism and debauchery because it doesn't really set any special rules to follow other than to follow whatever your own will and desires happen to be irregardless of morality. "Do what you will" is all that matters to the people who subscribe to this belief. But the simple reality is, nobody can do what they will, they can only do what they can.
>>42693933"Do what thou wilt" is a phrase that implies control over one's own reality but it is not a complete truth."Do what thou wilt and the world will do what it wilt." is more complete.You can do anything you want, but in doing so you invite to world to do anything it wants.>the saying originates from a freemason adjacent figureWOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOW
>>42693933>For when they shall say, Peace and safety; then sudden destruction cometh upon them, as travail upon a woman with child; and they shall not escape.-1 Thessalonians 5:3---https://www.state.gov/the-abraham-accords
>>42694096Imagine being a solipsism and trying to convince other people of solipsism. The very act refutes the thesis.
>>42697038'Do what thou wilt' is another way of saying 'piss on the shit'. You see. Everyone is an antisocial fat retard and no one gives a fuck. The hivemind might as well be shitting on my chest.
>>42699041Smelling your own upper lip lol.
>>42693933Surely your bunkers will save you.>And the kings of the earth, and the great men, and the rich men, and the chief captains, and the mighty men, and every bondman, and every free man, hid themselves in the dens and in the rocks of the mountains; And said to the mountains and rocks, Fall on us, and hide us from the face of him that sitteth on the throne, and from the wrath of the Lamb: For the great day of his wrath is come; and who shall be able to stand?-Revelation 6:15-17
>>42700214Yeah cool story bro
>>42698979Yeah dumbass they use the Book of Revelation as a playbook. Who do you think created religion
>>42693933Who is it that is naked?Is it he who is without clothes?Nay, it is he who is exposed to the Wrath of God.Those who are sheltered by the Righteousness of Christ JESUS are they who are clothed.---https://youtu.be/FYgc_dIuhYo
>>42700590>Who is it that is naked?>Is it he who is without clothes?Yes, that's how being naked works. The cops won't arrest a guy in a suit for indecent exposure just because God's pissed at him. Words mean things.
Babylon wages war on Babylon, Babylon vanquishes the evil of Babylon,Babylon falls and Babylon risesThe wars aren't real but the genocides of your people are. How they massacre you like cattle! How God weeps for your misguided souls!Their merchants did trade.Their leader wore their cross. Are you truly so blinded by the Serpent's propaganda?! Where did their scientists go?! You question where the bodies went, where do we put ours?!The head bites the tail, in death they are born
> your world will be consumed by flames and ash*next day on the news*"President donny darko is threatening to sue Canada today. He saying the hazardous air quality due to their WILDFIRES is causing market concerns over lack of supply"Tf did I just read?!?!?!So that means the next time idaho catches on fire and I can't breath,I'm allowed to sue the federal government for not allowing citizens to manage public lands effectively????*sips coffee as everywhere from Michigan to new York and main to DC is covered in smoke*Bow to your demigod on earth!!!!Muwahahahahah!!!!!
I love how /x/ers will decry "materialism" while upvoting slop such as "do what thou wilt" which is a prescription to treat reality like a bunch of meaningless objects.You love someone, you have a relationship with them, you don''t think "Hurk durk! Do what I want!" you think "How can i enjoy life with the one I love and improve the relationship? You have relationships with everything you experience. And yes, treating something as meaningless garbage _is_ a relational orientation: a shitty one.In a sane world even literal garbage wouldn't be treated like garbage. Our relationships with the planet and nonhuman life is so twisted and messed up a sane world is almost unimaginable.
>>42700648oh fuck i replie to you in the other thread before i saw op of this one.
>>42701697also, it represents mastery over carnal desires and sheeittt
Nietzsche said "God is dead, and we have killed Him". How unfortunate that after a corpus of works attempting to deconstruct the monuments of Plato, his most famous quote remains tethered to the Platonic instinct: he treats God as a thing, existing externally to the human mind, with a death placed somewhere specific in time. He should have known better:"God" is something being continually generated by each individual human believer. It is a process that, through combined human attention and reverence, takes on a form beyond individual construction, and comes to rule us through our own ignorance. We construct idols, and then come to believe they have constructed us.When humans are faced with void, we project the contents of our imaginations onto it. Only if you have been humbled against your own false expectations can you recognize the active power of your own unique mind in weaving fables that become larger than yourself. If you've ever speculated something profound and then had your belief contradicted by cold, hard contact with reality, you may understand what creative potential emanates from your need to understand and hope. Once that power is discovered, and weilded with both intensity and discernment, it becomes obvious that "inward" lies the very font of divinity. You sense the external with your particular senses. You process the stimuli with your unique physiology. You interpret the sensations through an irreducibly complex and unique configuration that is formed through an equally complex convergence of thoughts, feelings, memories, and patterns of thought whose development you more or less received as an infant receives it's milk. Then, your brain directs your interpretations toward judgements and attitudes that serve your underlying self-architecture. Finally, you plan, and act - recruiting your faculties toward some ends, often indiscernable, and your primitive brain convinces you that all of this was a sovereign act of an independent will.
>>42701849>"God" is something being continually generated by each individual human believer. Utter hubris.>We construct idols, and then come to believe they have constructed us.Ironic considering you idolize your own will whilst thinking yourself divine.>When humans are faced with void, we project the contents of our imaginations onto it.That is called living life. The internal void, however, is the trap. That is what we attempt to fill with mammon and pleasure instead of a relationship with God. We prop up idols within our own bodily temple only to find that they fall utterly short of the satisfaction of the compassion, truth, and peace that comes from knowing God. We can seek these good things individually, and will find some measure, but when you have a relationship with Jesus Christ, the very Source of it all will dwell within us.>it becomes obvious that "inward" lies the very font of divinity. Again, utter hubris.I understand that manifestation is real phenomenon that we can partake in, and even do so unwittingly. However, to think oneself divine because we can build with the building blocks we see is absurdity and the pinnacle of pride.
>>42702001So what do you think then? All gods true? Only one?
>>42702016See>>42696983>>42696984>>42696986>>42696987
>>42702016Also, there can only be one true God.There can only be one Most High.There can only be one OMNIPOTENT.
>>42702020>>42702024And you know this how?
>>42702027Simply logic dictates that there can only be one being that is all powerful, anon.If there were more than one, then their wills could potentially contradict, and because of this paradox, there can only be one.
>>42702032Would war for example indicate that there are multiple gods whose wills contradict? Surely no one would want for things like war and famine to exist.
>>42702038>Would war for example indicate that there are multiple gods whose wills contradict?No.>Surely no one would want for things like war and famine to exist.Sure, let us address the problem of evil.We don't need to know the reasons for why God allows suffering and evil to exist. It could simply be that what we experience as pain and suffering could be inconsequential in the scope of eternity, or perhaps our souls learn something from it that we do not understand while in these bodies.Whatever the reason may be for suffering and evil to exist, it is possible that God has a sufficient moral reason for their allowance.That possibility alone defeats the problem of evil.
>>42702038Also, just to note, God knows and feels all our suffering just as we feel it. He suffers right alongside us.And I know this because I know that God is omniscient.
>>42702001And if what you call "God" *is* something we keep making up in our minds, then divinity would also be something we project from within ourselves. Notice, then, that you and I would not mean the same thing by "divinity". I am mocking you. I do not believe in "divinity" as anything other than a psychological phenomenon. As such, every time you retreat to your decaying fortress of metaphysical bullshit to attempt to disarm my reasoning, you, in fact, sever yourself from the actual conversation:The material world is what gives rise to us, and all of our internal contents. Our brains are developed to avoid or overcome uncertainty. When we are in small tribes without the benefits of empirical and rational development over millennia, we naturally default to using speculation to give form to what we see. Without persistent, disciplined self-scrutiny, we almost invariably mistake our speculations for fact, and so our inner map of the world becomes more real to us than the world itself. Then, hope for God or fear of Hell compels men to asceticism, where they surrender themselves to abstract promises and commands that they assume come from some place beyond their own twisted minds. If "pride" is the recognition of this tired principle played out endlessly through human existence, then it's no wonder you pitiful slaves are afraid of it.
>>42702454>And if what you call "God" *is* something we keep making up in our mindsHe's not.GOD ISWe exist by His grace and mercy.If God is what you claim, whence comes reality?>The material world is what gives rise to us, and all of our internal contents.And where does this world come from?>Without persistent, disciplined self-scrutiny, we almost invariably mistake our speculations for fact, and so our inner map of the world becomes more real to us than the world itself.There is truth to this, in fact, I'd say that's true for almost everyone, always.That is why we need guidance from God; whom you claim is our projection.If there is not objective morality from God, then what you claim in this quote is the disaster that awaits us all.We are blind before God; we need a Shepherd.>If "pride" is the recognition of this tired principle played out endlessly through human existencePride is what drives a man without God, for nothing to such a man seems more solid a foundation than self.
>>42702504All of these are counter-assertions; which would be fine, except you're the only one trying to claim access to objective metaphysical truth. Your position requires a positive assertion of how this world came to be, what kind of thing it is, and why it's all happening. You make yourself especially prone to projective confusion. I only take the reality I see, give it a name, and try to extract some way to live within the uncertainty. Your view requires mountains of abstractions to remain coherent; mine does not pretend toward any ultimate truth that would require such scaffolding. And you think it should mean something to me that you accuse me of hubris. Well, it certainly doesn't.>If there is not objective morality from God, then what you claim in this quote is the disaster that awaits us allIs this you admitting that your view rests on fear and hope, and not ultimate truth? That's what it looks like.>Pride is what drives a man without God, for nothing to such a man seems more solid a foundation than selfIt increasingly sounds like you *need* your view to be true. If there is no God, then self is the best we have as a guide; yet you simply dismiss this out-of-hand, seemingly on that grounds alone. You will not seriously consider that that situation may really be the one we're in. I, on the other hand, have spent my life searching for God, or at least stable meaning, and have found only sandcastles that sweep away with the tides. When you inevitably use this to accuse me of some folly I've never examined, the burden becomes yours to demonstrate exactly where I failed when spending years literally prostrating myself before God in persecution of my own will. You can show *me* how ignorant I am of the spirit of God, in some disciplined way; or I can instead offer to you that your certainty is merely hubris, and fear, draped in holy vestment, calling itself a humble seeker of ultimate truth, because reality without it is unbearable to you.
>>42702743>except you're the only one trying to claim access to objective metaphysical truthSays the one claiming God is a construct.>>42702743>you think it should mean something to me that you accuse me of hubris. Well, it certainly doesn't.It should. Pride goeth before destruction. Do not doubt that.>Is this you admitting that your view rests on fear and hope, and not ultimate truth? That's what it looks like.What is truth?Ultimately, if God exists, truth is God's will. So no, my view does not only rest upon fear and hope, but the pursuit of ultimate truth as well. And yes, fear and hope are a part of it. As is stated in Proverbs, the fear of The LORD is the beginning of wisdom, and I suspect that love is the fullness, as God is Himself love. Not only that, but as Jesus Christ commanded, love is the keeping of the whole law of God.If love is the fullness, then we are all fools indeed as is proven time and again by the atrocities of humanity.>If there is no God, then self is the best we have as a guideWere that the case, we would be destined for certain destruction, for in that case only those with power, influence, and money would be the ones to dictate what is considered wrong and right.>yet you simply dismiss this out-of-handNot simply out-of-hand, I've thought about this much prior to this conversation.I dismiss the idea of there not being a God on the grounds that I didn't create myself, nor do I believe that the universe itself is God as that would erase the boundaries between what is truly good, holy, and true with what is evil, profane, and false.>You will not seriously consider that that situation may really be the one we're inNot only because of what I have stated, and more, but also because I have had personal experiences with God where I am certain of divine intervention, though I understand that's easily dismissable as confirmation bias, so I tend not to speak about it as much.
>>42702839You are consistently just brushing past my points, so instead of continuing in a way that allows you talk past me like that, I will point out how you are doing it and wait for you to adjust; and I'm not expecting much from you at this point.>Says the one claiming God is a constructWhen I do, I do so from the position that my assertions are entirely rooted in my own experience; when you claim He exists, you do so from a view that says He exists independently of human experience, and that He governs all things, including truth itself. Do you see the asymmetry in our epistemologies? Mine says: "it seems to me", but uses confident language by convention; Yours says: "it certainly *is* the following way:", which requires insane hubris, *when* it's not already a popular thing to do. >Pride goeth before destruction. Do not doubt that.You dismissed the above point, which explained *why* I don't value your take on my pride (because you yourself appear blinded by pride); and then simply regurgitated a slogan. That is clearly very low-quality engagement. Insultingly low for someone who claims to seek truth.>for in that case only those with power, influence, and money would be the ones to dictate what is considered wrong and rightIf the operant word there is "considered", then that is obviously, objectively how the world is. You understand the seat of Rome has all three of those things? As do nation-states, wealthy elites, and anyone else actively shaping morals and ethics in society? So, if that is the case, then this part of your response is utterly useless, because you'd have to show how it is not the case, when it is.>on the grounds that I didn't create myself, nor do I believe that the universe itself is God as that...So, I said I don't need to answer how everything came to be because I am not imposing any view of such; you respond by repeating the fact that you *do* do that. So, maybe you need to slow down and respect the conversation.
>>42702900>I do so from the position that my assertions are entirely rooted in my own experience; when you claim He exists, you do so from a view that says He exists independently of human experienceIn the very message you're quoting, I spoke about my own experiences with God and why I chose not to include it as much, on top of what I believe is objective truth. Brushing past points are we?>You dismissed the above point, which explained *why* I don't value your take on my pride (because you yourself appear blinded by pride); and then simply regurgitated a slogan. That is clearly very low-quality engagement. Insultingly low for someone who claims to seek truth.The truth is there was more, but I ran out of comment space.I'll add it here. Pride goeth before destruction as when all we have is ourselves in a time of trouble, and we fall short, what is left?If there is no God; destruction indeed. It is foolish to rely only on oneself.>If the operant word there is "considered", then that is obviously, objectively how the world is.Right, I misspoke. I shouldn't have added that word.For in that case only those with power, influence, and money would be the ones to dictate what is wrong and right.>So, if that is the case, then this part of your response is utterly useless, because you'd have to show how it is not the case, when it is.They try, but they do not.
>>42702938>In the very message you're quoting, I spoke about my own experiences with God and why I chose not to include it as much, on top of what I believe is objective truth.What you did not, and cannot do, is demonstrate objectively how you have reached certainty about that. If humans are able to grasp God through logic and reason alone, then why would He call us to have *faith* above all else? Why not tell us, in our darkest hour, how we can be objectively, rationally certain of His providence? Even faith is supposed to be a free gift from God (lest any man boast). So, if you were interested in doing God's will on Earth, you might instead behave like the monk, who *rejects* intellectual certainty and argumentation to prove God because God can only be reached by emptying oneself completely - which equals TOTAL epistemic humility: the opposite of certainty. Until you resolve that contradiction in your worldview, you will continue searching for truth everywhere BUT the one place it can actually be found: disciplined self-scrutiny. It's hard, discovering our nakedness. So, not believing in God, I recognize that the honest thing for me to do is to be restrained from claiming certainty. I instead admit that my reasoning is perspectival. I believe this to be true of you as well; but because your worldview is based on this giant framework that has been trumpeted as ultimate truth for millenia, you get to assume that it's objectively true and speak from the pulpit while skeptics and dissenters refuse to exploit the same advantage, because for me and many others, that would be dishonest. For you, however, I believe it's simply naivete. So here I am, asking you about the contradiction between human certainty and righteous humility.
Square up script ai!
>>42703002Great example: someone does not understand the kinds of human minds that produce this conversation, so they assume it's multiple AI exchanging scripts. By refusing to scrutinize this assumption, the person quickly mistakes it for truth; and consequently feels empowered to ridicule the exchange. What they do not yet realize is that this surrenders intellectual capacity, and by extension coherence of reality. If you often make sweeping assumptions about intricate realities, you will also often be blindsided by the ruthless details you've thrown your blanket over; like a matador too slow for its bull.
>>42702987>What you did not, and cannot do, is demonstrate objectively how you have reached certainty about that. If humans are able to grasp God through logic and reason alone, then why would He call us to have *faith* above all else? Why not tell us, in our darkest hour, how we can be objectively, rationally certain of His providence? Even faith is supposed to be a free gift from God (lest any man boast).Well, you have touched upon the very heart of it all. You said I cannot demonstrate how I have come to a certainty in my faith, and perhaps you're right. The funny thing is, anon, you answered your own question. In our darkest hour is when faith truly blossoms; that is the crucible that refines our belief in God; strife. That is when we become certain.>So, if you were interested in doing God's will on Earth, you might instead behave like the monk, who *rejects* intellectual certainty and argumentationAnon, there are plenty of saints and theologians both alive now and throughout history who are and were certain that God exists and argue with every part of their souls about it.>God because God can only be reached by emptying oneself completely - which equals TOTAL epistemic humilityThat is where the walk starts. Then God reveals Himself over time more and more, gradually perfecting the faith of the believer. I still pray constantly for more faith and will continue to do so until I die.>I recognize that the honest thing for me to do is to be restrained from claiming certaintySo then you would admit that it is possible for God to exist?
>>42703030Yeah your scripting chatham.Nobody
>>42703039>In our darkest hour is when faith truly blossomsI learned very early in life that wishing something to be true because of my suffering is not the same as knowing, and that it hurts your chances of being able to overcome the material causes of the suffering. How have you not heard that wishful thinking is not knowing? Are you the kind of person who, as passenger of a vehicle veering toward a cliff, would sit and pray intensely rather than try to seize the wheel? If so, then I can say without bitterness that I despise you. Would you, as Abraham did, be stopped only by the hand of angel while trying to offer your firstborn son to the "most High"? If so, then you choose easing your fear of displeasing a ghost over the tangible wellbeing of your actual flesh and blood, and all who do this deserve neither comfort nor custody. >Anon, there are plenty of saints and theologians both alive now and throughout history who are and were certain that God exists and argue with every part of their souls about itOkay... but rarely *monks*, and it's only purported certainty that no one besides the faithful seems to find very compelling at this point. >Then God reveals Himself over time more and more>the longer I treat this thing as true, the more true it feelsVery advanced reasoning, yes.>So then you would admit that it is possible for God to exist?Sure - but "possible" is a very, very low bar, anon. It's equally possible that all scripture is the deceptive work of some other God no one has ever even faintly noticed before, and that She intends for all of us prove ourselves worthy of eternal life by *rejecting* your God and all others beside Her. It's super fucking easy to propose things that are technically possible. If your faith weren't given so much currency by its mass adoption and sophisticated theology, I doubt anyone would treat it more seriously than they would the She-Lord I proposed.
>>42703108>SureNice.I'll meet you in the middle.Even though it pains me, I will admit that I do not know with certainty that God exists, and I don't think we can this side of death.However, I think that is by design; I mean, it must be if God exists.That being said, with everything I've seen, I will defend my faith in Jesus Christ until my dying breath.>Are you the kind of person who, as passenger of a vehicle veering toward a cliff, would sit and pray intensely rather than try to seize the wheel?Of course God expects us to act when we can, and I like to think I would try. But what about someone who is in a helpless situation? Would you condemn the downtrodden for hoping in a Higher Power that can deliver them?>Very advanced reasoning, yes.And that's exactly why I don't talk about personal experience.Why attack me for not talking about subjective experience, and then turn around and mock me when I do?>She intends for all of us prove ourselves worthy of eternal life by *rejecting* your God and all others beside Her. I reject your hypothetical god as well as Judaism and Islam.See>>42696983>>42696984
>>42703108To elaborate; explain how your hypothetical god can reconcile justice with mercy.
>>42703143>Why attack me for not talking about subjective experience, and then turn around and mock me when I do?No. Good catch, but no:THIS, I respect:>That being said, with everything I've seen, I will defend my faith in Jesus Christ until my dying breath.Because it does not need to pretend to be anything other than your personal conviction through lived experience. I find it almost noble. Almost.This:>Then God reveals Himself over time more and more, gradually perfecting the faith of the believer.Pretends to be objective fact, in its wording. It asserts an external God, and confidently makes truth claims about that God that we have now both accepted are not epistemically justified. It tries to be both personal subjective belief AND objective Truth. The reason you think it gets to do this is because you think that accepting faith for personal reasons, affords and in fact obligates you to then treat it as fact. What I do, never makes that leap. Because that leap is ultimately cowardly, in my estimation. It's like drawing a line in the sand as a mutual boundary, and then slapping someone on the other side only to jump back over and claim safety. And this contradiction will never resolve because it is inherent to the divide between faith and reason. You choose faith as the ultimate guiding principle, so you surrender judgement being in that place instead, which limits your autonomy and makes you less of a willing being. Hence: "persecute thy own will" (because those who exalt it are evil and God will punish them). Without that God, the punishment is just occasional failure, for some and not all. The reward? Sovereignty OVER that which oppressess you from your own felt flourishing. Something you probably cannot even conceive of because of how much you defer yourself to abstractions like God. But, I respect you meeting me in the middle, sincerely.
>>42703146Language can do it:Justice and mercy are concepts. Concepts compress reality into symbol, which obscures nuance. She does not need to resolve these concepts because She commands a different principle: observe and respect the wellbeing of those you love. Would "justice" condemn them to execution? Then ignore it; would mercy make them too soft or unwise to flourish on their own? Then be harsher. She does not privilege these concepts over Her people because people are not reducible in the way concepts are. You can't allow yourself to think in such particulars because you are too busy continuing to inherit universalist moral principles that defy Her primary commandment of: "Thou *must* judge for thyself."
>>42703190>Pretends to be objective fact, in its wording.Well, it is what I believe to be objective fact; and I understand that you see it as hubris in itself to claim that God exists when we ourselves do not have the means to prove His existence objectively.But this is the cry of the evangelist, 'You too can have personal experience with God!'Because the experience is so transformative, they feel compelled to preach about it to others. Even though we know we will fall short in most cases, we try to turn people to God so they too can be redeemed.What is the evangelist/believer actually advocating for when asserting that God exists?Total surrender. The converted have all surrendered themselves to God's will as it is perfect. At least they continually try to. Even though we falter and fail constantly, we grow. Both in faith and in love. This is sanctification, and it is lifelong.So, is a zealous believer who has surrendered themselves to God and truly believes their mission is to preach to others that they too can be redeemed driven by pride in their absolute confidence in God's power and existence?God knows.>>42703219>Justice and mercy are concepts.Mutually exclusive concepts in their absolutes.>Would "justice" condemn them to execution? Then ignore itThen your god is unjust.>would mercy make them too soft or unwise to flourish on their own? Then be harsherThen your god is ruthless.
>>42703293>Mutually exclusive concepts in their absolutesBut concepts hold no absolute authority. They can be merged, divided, subdivided, repurposed, redefined, ignored, or sanctified according to the living wills of human beings. That is how language develops at all. You seem to take that for granted, but it undermines your entire metaphysics because it dethrones them from their "absolute" status you've unwittingly given them. What is not reducible and exchangeable in this abstract was is the actual reality from which we work to develop these concepts. Why would I care more about resolving a problem between two concepts than about whether or not my loved one ends up on the chopping block? Why would the concept of "justice" be more important than my children or my wife, when the value we find in these concepts relates to improving our wellbeing? If justice is NOT something etched into the fabric of reality itself, then it's a tool made by humans to solve problems; to me, those problems do not outweigh the problem of my loved ones being snuffed out by spiritual child who thinks concepts should matter more than people do directly. >Then your god is unjustThe unjust benefactor of those I love is worth more to me than justice itself, as I have surely made clear by this point. >Then your god is ruthlessFor starts, that's plain wrong, because we're talking about measuring mercy and not utterly abandoning it; but also, again: if the thing allowing the people I care about most to flourish is unjust and ruthless, then fuck justice and mercy, and Hail the Goddess. >Because the experience is so transformative, they feel compelled to preach about it to othersYou may be interested to know that this also applies to me, but with "embracing my own judgement" as the transformative object, rather than God. Evangelical Christians are not the only ones with an inspiration and an agenda, and I suspect you will learn that lesson harshly.
>>42703314>They can be merged, divided, subdivided, repurposed, redefined, ignored, or sanctified according to the living wills of human beings.There exist absolutes, anon. Not everything is a polarity its 'opposite'.>but it undermines your entire metaphysics because it dethrones them from their "absolute" status you've unwittingly given themAs I said, absolutes DO exist.Without them, truth and lies cannot be differentiated between. Without absolutes, there is no such thing as metaphorical blindness or sight as meaning itself breaks down into nonsense.>Why would the concept of "justice" be more important than my children or my wifeBecause without it, your wife and children will never be able to walk uprightly, nor you, nor anyone else.>The unjust benefactor of those I love is worth more to me than justice itselfI am truly sorry to hear that. Not to demean; it genuinely makes me sad.>For starts, that's plain wrong, because we're talking about measuring mercy and not utterly abandoning it; but also, again: if the thing allowing the people I care about most to flourish is unjust and ruthless, then fuck justice and mercy, and Hail the Goddess. Just wanted to say, I misread that part of your post.Guess I need to slow down and respect the conversation :^)>would mercy make them too soft or unwise to flourish on their own? Then be harsherTo answer this question particularly; could it even be said to be mercy if that is the known outcome? Of course not, that would be malice, or irresponsibility at best.What I am talking about is the exhibition of either justice or mercy in any given scenario where one or the other is required.
>>42693933>'Do what thou wilt' is the motto of the blind for they only look inwardsIf you lie about & intentionally misunderstand even the most basic tenets of belief systems you oppose, how are we to assume you speak the truth about the (ecocidal, genocidal, misogynistic, pedophiliac) belief system you promote?>https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/True_Will>http://www.thelemapedia.org/index.php/Law_of_Thelema>https://www.reddit.com/r/occult/comments/58u1fe/do_what_thou_wilt_shall_be_the_whole_of_the_law/Thelema never blew up a water desalinization plant depriving 10k+ villagers of water. Your religion is so blind it's gonna get this entire planet irradiated if you don't watch out.
>>42703355>If you lie about & intentionally misunderstand even the most basic tenets of belief systems you opposeWhy don't you correct me then?>how are we to assume you speak the truthRead the posts.Do you agree? Do you not?Why? Why not?
After rereading, I just wanted to add a response to this:>>42703190>It tries to be both personal subjective belief AND objective Truth. The reason you think it gets to do this is because you think that accepting faith for personal reasons, affords and in fact obligates you to then treat it as fact.Not only have I had what I believe to be personal experiences with God, with more happening over time, but I have heard many testimonies that assert the same experience, so it's not purely personal.
>>42703344Central point of disagreement: I do not believe any concepts we have are sufficient to capture anything "absolutely". Yes, indeed: at their foundations, all things we find meaningful break down into nonsense, because concepts are merely our cognition's best attempt to make reality navigable within our physiological limitations. All language is constructed, and therefore no concepts in language can escape the limits of what we can comprehend, which is a tiny sliver of what seems to actually *be*. Therefore, if your belief in the absolute nature of justice and mercy comes into conflict with the very existence of the people I value, then it is total war. Do you understand? I'll not allow principle, conviction, duty, honor, justice, mercy, piety, or humility to bind my arms behind my back while my loved ones are attacked. By you zombies who love fables and concepts enough to undermine the very humanity they exist to serve. If my child has stolen from me, I will look for the course of action that most leads to their flourishing - if the results of my work with them be called justice, injustice, mercy, harshness, tenderness, or coldness, then so be it. If they have no description to others, then just as well. If I require myself to resolve concepts before acting to improve conditions, then I waste time playing games. You know what conditions afford someone the luxury of not being beholden to the dictates of other flawed mortals and their imagined gods? You can call it power, capacity, competence, security, cleverness, or discernment; but what you call it is immaterial if what I have allows me to ignore you, and what you have does not allow the same for you. Keep your absolutes - keep them stored in your head while you look outward for them; I will take material prosperity and forget about that which sells itself to me for promises of other worlds.
>>42703497Here's the most absolute absolute that is:God still loves you.With that, I guess we'll just have to agree to disagree. I have enjoyed our conversation.I hope the best for you and your family.
>>42703507Cordial farewell it is, then. Live well, anon.
>>42703736Perhaps only until today.That's up to you, if you're still around.You basically told me to save it, so I cut it short.I don't want to try to force anything on anyone, and if someone tells me they've heard enough, then I'll respect that.I'll be around until the thread dies.
>>42693933It is said that the invention of firearms was the great equalizer of men.I put it to you that One Greater exists, and has forever.The brilliance of TRUTH spotlessly shears off prejudice.The Sword that is TRUTH is forever the perfect equalizer.It is Truth that confounds the malicious by revealing their merely ostensible guile to be naught but nonsensical pride whilst simultaneously enlightening the benighted.---Truth must be both absolute and objective.How can one be a truthseeker if that is not the case?Inevitably we would all find ourselves spinning endlessly within our minds, eating our own in the pursuit of something we cannot produce.---Why is Truth stranger than fiction?Because Truth isn't limited by our imaginations.>>42703497Feel free to weigh in.
>>42693933We can melt upper half of a vessel so lower part will be full of itself.The snake is not eating himself, he is vomiting himself in existence.
>>42693938Where was Gondor when the west fold felt?
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>>42693933A soldier continues fighting even when he has lost sight of the banner.A good soldier never loses sight.
>>42693933Be neither proud nor ashamed of the color of your skin or your genetic makeup.Consider all the shades, hues, and compositions of the earth.So it is with humanity.We are all formed by the dust of the ground, temporal matter, but inscribed with the image of God.How can we all be made in the image of God if we differ in appearance and physicality?We all contain the breath of life.Consciousness.A soul.---"Show me a penny.""Whose image and superscription has it?"They answered and said, "Caesar's."And He said to them, "Render therefore to Caesar the things that are Caesar's, and to God the things which be God's"-Mark 12:15-17Do you not know that the image of God is inscribed upon you?Render therefore to God that which is God's.
>>42693933I'm looping
>>42693933Fine, do nothing at all. Just stop wasting other's time. Solipsism is false. Fuck off.
>>42693933
>>42693933>>42714596You who call yourself a Jew,Turn your ear and hear anew!You made it a Book of Abraham;But, is it not of I AM THAT I AM?For a line you look;you track and trace,instead of seeking out HIS FACE!Oh, you lost! You house of sheep!Hear ye not The Shepherd's Bleat?Search The Texts to find HIS NAMEfor if you don't you hold the blame.THE KING has come!CHRIST IS THE WAY!Who do you choose to serve this day?---You speak your prayer to rock and fodder.The stones have now become your father.Do you trust your words and war willmove those blocks which you adore?Oh, if Elijah saw you now,He'd laugh; cry; disavow.---Hear ye; Ye hypocrites!Stop your crying!Stop your fits!Your wayward way is to:The Pit.That western wall,The one you kiss;That place you mourn, grovel, and hiss;Is that your GOD, or is I AM THAT I AM?
