I've been looking more into this supposed miracle (I made this thread before on /his/), and I've seriously come to the conclusion that it was most likely nothing but a government-approved hoax by the Coptic Church.>the first time the figure appeared, the police didn't see anything but a "reflection of light", and it took a clergyman to point out that the mysterious figure was Mary for people to recognize it>there is no evidence of the police cutting power in 15 mile radius or committing any type of search in that radius either, most of it seems to be urban legend spread by word of mouth (and at most the power was cut from streetlights around the square) >Besides the famous skeptical account of Cynthia Nelson, a fuckton of witnesses saw absolutely nothing, and this was even reported by the Coptic Church. However, the church claimed that the reason why some didn't see anything was "a lack of faith" >Egyptian Government didn't just approve of the miracle, they promoted it every moment they could, and even made immediate accommodations to help Coptic Church to build a site for pilgrims>The main Coptic newspaper, Watani, refused to accept photographs that Egyptian national newspapers spread without any worry, because those photos were of "dubious origin to them">Coptic Church maintains that the reason why people were unable to take pictures of the event was because the light was "non-material spiritual light", which cameras couldn't catch (so how did those alleged photos came into being then? Did their cameras believe in immaculate conception?)>Mary was able to cause miraculous healing, yet she did nothing to stop a dozen of people (some children) from being trampled to death (Mary approves?)The only mysterious thing anymore is how exactly the Muslim engineers perceiving the original appearance come to believe the light was a nun? I don't know but I doubt miracle theory can explain it.
Straight from the horse's mouth, a Coptic newspaper called Watani in 1968:>"One of the priests, echoing the views of many clergy, said that the clarity of the vision differs from person to person. Spiritual depth, purity of heart, and faith all influence the degree to which the apparition is seen: some witnesses see her figure clearly, others perceive only light, while a few see nothing. On one night, twin brothers stood together watching; one saw the Virgin’s full figure, while the other saw only a faint ray of light. It was also noted that children often saw her most vividly, for their innocence and purity make them more receptive to divine visions. Even those who did not see her directly experienced a profound spiritual atmosphere; hymns, prayers, and tears of devotion filled the night. Crowds stood awake until dawn, yet none felt fatigue, returning home at sunrise filled with peace and faith."https://ourladyofzeitoun.com/en/newspaper/watani-newspaper-may-5-1968/Moreover, the late Coptic Pope, Shenouda III, stated that there were many who did not see it:>"During the apparition of the Virgin Mary in Zeitoun, many people didn't see the Virgin because they didn't have faith, while others standing right next to them saw her because they had faith."https://youtu.be/aIG50lYF1-E?si=faqHmp0BqCG7xeAF (47:00-47:17)I also recommend checking out "Critique of Religious Thought" by Sadiq Jalal al-Azm, which can be found online, which has an entire chapter looking into the "miracle" and the craze it caused in Egypt. He's also the one who sources up the camera claim about "spiritual non-material light".
>>42838163>>42838169Okay, but how exactly did the mechanics see a young woman / nun then? I don't think you can explain that away, unless there was an actor, whom the police for some reason thought was a reflection.And how can you know the police didn't see a humanoid figure as well?
>>42838666First off, we don't know what the police saw. It might have been a humanoid figure, but it also might have been a figure that looked nothing like a human. However, we do know that the initial apparition only lasted a few minutes. In other words, it must have taken the police only a short moment, perhaps even seconds, to conclude there was nothing but a reflection of light before they began to guide people away from the site. The likeliest explanation is thus that the police thought it was too unintelligible to warrant a critical assessment. If there was even a single chance of it being a human, they would have likely taken action. The fact they concluded against this so fast tells us that they very likely saw no nun or a young woman, and definitely not Virgin Mary.Second, what the mechanics saw is pretty easy to explain with pareidolia and suggestion. Pareidolia makes people see human shapes even when there is none. I have personally witnessed this when I've sometimes seen a strange shadow or a light reflection and thought it was a person. Suggestion explains why they saw a nun, because the context favors a nun over other plausible explanations. More than likely, the two mechanics saw a light on the roof, stared at it long enough, and then one or the other thought they saw human features, like a veiled woman. Nuns are veiled, and thus they concluded it was a nun. The other began to see this figure after it was suggested by the other, and soon enough they both saw this interpretation of the light. This then spread to other people as they began to scream and yell about a person up on the roof.Third, if an actor was up on the roof, it could still explain why the police thought they saw only a reflection of light. Perhaps the actor actually left the roof rather soon before the police arrived, but when people panicked, they didn't see it. Perhaps there was already a spotlight on the roof, which was turned off for a short second.
>>42838666Moreover, continuing from >>42839001, if it was indeed a fraud, then there's a likelihood that they used a projector (Bat-Mary Signal), which would've also made it look like a veiled woman.
