No one can prove יהוה created evil. I have made multiple threads now challenging gnostics (Luciferians in disguise) to provide evidence from actual Hebrew texts that the 1 true holy Jewish God of this universe actually created evil. They cannot.Despite this claim being repeated constantly, none of these gnostics can actually back it up.Not talking about poorly translated bible verses here. Not talking cultural dogmas. We're talking about actual hebrew textual evidence of the 1 true holy Jewish God making evil. Of which, there is none.Primarily this is because the Hebrew texts are not monotheistic. They are monolatry, meaning they recognize the existence of many gods, but revolve around the worship of merely 1.The other gods are vampiristic (ie, feeding from the tree of life), demanding human sacrifices, and view human beings as no more than flesh puppets to be enslaved or possessed. But יהוה opposed all of that and provided people with human rights. What fools humans are to oppose יהוה, when he's the only reason we have any rights.Feel free to provide actual evidence of your false gnostic claims of יהוה creating evil. But you can't. You just absolutely can't.
gay
Not a gnostic, but fuck your Caananite stormgod
>>42893607ha
>>42893607God outsources conciseness until virtue becomes the unconscious mindthen they burn down trees not for capitalism's sake, but napalm of alchemy
>evidence from actual Hebrew textshahahahahahahaha
Notice no one provided any evidence.
Just provide the evidence, being that you people make these claims vehemently, perpetually.Why can't you back up your claim with evidence? Obviously, because your claim is pure falsehood.
Chaos is a ladder.
... did the "1 true holy Jewish God" create Jews?
>prove that im wrong but only use the source i approve of which is propaganda for my belief that i want to be proven wrong.
>>42893745If you want to prove your claims about יהוה then you have to do it from the actual cannon, not your headcannon. Correct. Correct.
>A Great Lady and a Great Lady appear, a Great Lady is exalted above her son, even Hathor, Lady of the Sky, Mistress of all the gods. She finds her son and his brother; his cattle are strong, and Re has seen what he wished.
>>42893769
>>42893779Why can't you just provide evidence of your claims about יהוה making evil, if you're not just posting empty propagandistic bullshit?
>>42893803NTA, but nothing empty about it
>>42893821Post the evidence, then. Why do you people keep on telling me "it's not empty" or pretending "there's evidence!", but then refusing to post the evidence? Post your evidence. But you can't. Because it's not real. There is none.
>>42893852The evidence is real, you just wont find it in pre-approved "canon hebrew text"
Funny to watch this demonic propaganda, from gnostics, fully dismantled within this thread, is it not?
>>42893860Where? Post it, then. Post your evidence of יהוה creating evil, which you pretend exists but magically can't post. You can't post it, cuz it does not exist.
>>42893867>>42893860If it's not in a hebrew canonical text, then it's not evidence though. You can't insert things into people's religions, which are not there, just because you want to post propaganda against them.
>>42893873Hebrew canonical text itself is propaganda. What is being asked is using only pre-approved literature to prove against itself.An impossibility which OP know it is, which is why he made thing thread as some sort of "gotcha".
>>42893928You can't provide any evidence, therefore you're pretending you can just make up whatever false claims you want, and they're valid. And this is the actual idea you're postulating here, which clearly is completely false.
Clearly, no one was able to provide this evidence of יהוה having created evil. It does not exist.
>>42893959>>42893779... but there are evil Jews. They exist. There is evidence right in this thread.
>Homage to thee, Re, supreme power, who creates the Caverns, who causes the bodies to come into being by his own decree to himself! Thou decreest, O Re, for those who exist and who do not exist, for the dead, the gods, the spirits. Thou art the bodies of Maker of Bodies.
Behold, I deliver you to destruction, I deliver you to nothingness.
>>42893607Shut up nerd no one cares. You're missing the point of being. >Blah blah blah god is this and only thisYou play a fools game. You're all so annoying. No wonder God doesn't talk to you.
>>42894060You will be put in the pit by the one holy Jewish God of this universe if you try to curse me, or perpetrate any negativity upon me, personally. Don't do it. Just revoke this, right now.
>>42893607>No one can prove יהוה created evil. IGod created the devil and all demons and sent them to Earth.Being all powerful he could of deleted them at any point but allows them to create maximum damage.He could of chose not to create the devil and the rest of the demons. He could of chose not to send them to Earth. It took effort to do so.
>>42894151You can't prove any of this. It's not in the hebrew texts.This is what I mean. This is your own fanfiction.
literally take a look around you OP. thats all i need to know that god is fucking evil and laughing in our faces while causing all the pain and suffering of this world
>>42894167>>42894151In fact, Hebrew texts, in particular genesis, paint a very clear picture to the contrary.
>>42894170You've completely ignored the post, or the premise of the post, or everything which was written in the post, in order to justify just emptily repeating your usual propaganda wherein you pretend the 1 true holy Jewish God of this universe was responsible for the creation of everything evil within this world.But you provide no evidence of this. And you can provide no evidence of this, because there is, flat out, no evidence of this.
>>42894167>You can't prove any of this.Did God create Satan? If so he is the father of the devil.Did God delete Satan or send Satan to Earth?Can God instantly end this battle of "good and evil" or is God deliberately dragging it out making it both artificial and scripted?
>>42893613this. Fuck off OP, I respect my individual sovereignty and don't need your false god
>>42894199>Can God instantly end this battle of "good and evil" or is God deliberately dragging it out making it both artificial and scripted?Exactly, this reality is scripted. Big O is more true than people think
>>42894199>>42894220None of this is in the hebrew biblical texts. This is your own fan fiction. I don't believe there's any concrete reference to any of this in the New Testament works, either. It's your own fan fiction. Entirely your own fan fiction.
>>42894231>>42894220>>42894199I will further point out, once more, the hebrew texts of the bible paint a very different picture, and they paint this picture very clearly. With a divine council, which predates genesis in its existence, and the existence of multiple gods, of which יהוה is merely one. But the others appear to be vampiristic....which is why anyone is a fool to worship anyone other than יהוה.
>>42894231>I don't believe there's any concrete reference to any of this in the New Testament works, either.Revelation 12:9>The great dragon was hurled down—that ancient serpent called the devil, or Satan, who leads the whole world astray. He was hurled to the earth, and his angels with himGod sends the Devil and rest of the demons to Earth instead of deleting them knowing that Satan "leads the whole world astray".It was completely optional to invent Satan. It was completely optional to send Satan to Earth.
When you people are confronted with the actual hebrew contents of the bible, rather than the thousands of years of faulty, or politically motivated, english-language transcriptions, your worldview massively falls apart. You can't even face what's actually written in the hebrew texts. You won't even acknowledge what's in them, and instead just keep on intentionally invoking your misrepresentations. Because your propaganda erodes. If you face what's actually in there, then everything you try to push on people fully erodes.
>>42894257That's not from a Hebrew text, but that's not about creation, either. You have clearly just repurposed a portion of the bible which obviously is not about creation, and ripped it out of context in order to make it appear as if it had a completely different meaning. This text clearly has nothing to do with יהוה creating the devil, or evil, but rather about casting him out, in a vague sense.
>>42894281>>42894257Face it, people. You will never find anything from the Hebrew texts of the bible, and probably not from the New Testament, either (though these do not work into my own personal kabbalistic spiritual practices whatsoever), which references יהוה creating any form of evil. It just doesn't fit with what's in the texts.It's your fanfiction.
>>42894281>That's not from a Hebrew textKoine Greek>but rather about casting him outand sending him to Earth to fuck with humans. Being all powerful he could of just deleted Satan and the rest of the demons. Sending Satan to Earth to lead humans astray means God would be responsible.
יהוה is good, people. You're only opposed to יהוה because יהוה opposes your evil.
>>42894298>>That's not from a Hebrew text>Koine GreekThanks for confirming it's not from a Hebrew text, and does not fit into this discussion. But no matter, furthermore it does not reference creation. You can pretend the text holds a fully divergent meaning from it's obvious one for as many posts as you want, in order to evade having to recognize your wrongness, but it won't make any difference when the text clearly does not reference the creation of evil, but rather the casting out. (also, once more, we're not referencing my personal religion here, but whatever).
>>42894298>>42894309Book of Revelation does not exactly fit into a monolotrous kabbalah practitioner's viewpoints. But, I mean, it's whatever.
>>42894309>Thanks for confirming it's not from a Hebrew textThe New Testament was never written in Hebrew, it was always in Koine Greek. The language doesn't matter.What matters is if God created Satan and the rest of the demons. This would be a completely unnecessary step as it would mean YHWH is the progenitor of all evil. Sending these demons to Earth instead of deleting them would also be completely optional.
>>42894317Well the passage which you've posted, which I've pointed out many times now, does not reference "the creation of evil", or the devil, or any of these other things. Therefore, your willful continued pushing of it just further evidences that you people have absolutely zero evidence for your claims, and are only interested in pushing propaganda.I further reference that my own views are Kabbalistic practices, and don't figure in with the New Testament, but that's fundamentally irrelevant in this case, anyhow, when the post you're making does not reference any form of creation, or the creation of evil, but rather a casting out of evil.
>>42894317> satan/luciferSomeone didnt read the texts well enough. They were considered angels before the fall. Also you cant impose on free will.
>>42894324>does not reference "the creation of evil", or the devil,>>42894328>They were considered angels before the fall. Who made Satan? Who is the father of Satan?>Also you cant impose on free will.Yes you can. It's no different from a cop sending a criminal to jail.God kicks Satan out of heaven. The question is why send Satan to Earth to fuck over humans instead of deleting Satan.Imagine a cop sending a serial killer to a elementary school instead of jail.At that point the cop is responsible.
>>42894343>This guy doesnt get the gambit. Take a shower, cool off, have a meal. Youll feel better
>>42894343The text you've posted before does not reference any form of "creation" of devils, pain or evil. You're intent on continually doubling down in order to evade having to recognize you were just wrong.But this is clear as 2+2=4. The text you yourself have posted, is very clear. It's not a reference to any form of "creation" of these evils, which clearly existed prior to the events described in these texts. Would you like to continue posting your repeated denials of basic facts, and pretenses that you can't understand even the most basic concepts, just in order to evade having to recognize you were bested in an internet debate?
>>42894375>any form of "creation" of devils, pain or evilWho is Satan's father?Who is the creator of small pox, malaria, and leprosy?Where did God send Satan and the rest of the demons to?
>>42894343>>42894375PS I believe the christian mythos (once more, I'm into Kabbalah) involves the devil being cast out of heaven because he rebelled, and tried to overthrow God. Not that he was "sent to earth to be a torment to people" in the way you're manipulatively trying to pretend.
>>42894385This guy gets it from the christian perspective.
>>42894385>once more, I'm into KabbalahI don't care>not that he was "sent to earth to be a torment to people"Book of Job shows YHWH and Satan killing and tormenting random people over a wager.
>>42894396Which random people? Job was the only one tested
>>42894383>Who is Satan's father?I don't know why you keep asking me this question, man. Genuinely, I don't understand it. Once more, nothing in any of these Hebrew texts references יהוה having created evil, and you've been unable to provide even 1 shred of evidence for your gnosticism claim that he did. In fact, everything in Hebrew texts clearly outlines a "divine council" which predates the existence of the events in genesis. Everything in the Hebrew texts disproves everything which you're writing. And I'm not aware of any difference in this narrative within the New Testament, either (though, I recognize, these are not my religious texts).It feels as if you're just willfully pretending not to understand basic facts, or concepts, in order to evade having to recognize that you were wrong about God in an internet debate. I find this unfortunate. I find this very unfortunate.
>>42894396We could discuss Job, in an entirely different context, and thread, and what I'm discussing here is your false gnostic claim that יהוה "created evil". And you're unable to provide any evidence of this claim. I am asking you to either provide evidence of your claim, or end your endless pushing of it. Why won't you stop pushing falsehoods?
>>42894398>Which random people?Job's children and servants were killed off
>>42894408The book of Job can read very differently once you no longer view יהוה as "the progenitor of evil". But....it's not relevant for this thread and is a far more nuanced discussion. For this thread, we're focused on your obviously false claim that יהוה was the progenitor of evil, which you've been able to provide functionally 0 evidence of. Neither you, nor any of your gnostic friends, have ever been able to provide even 1 shred of evidence for this false claim.
>>42894416Is it evil to kill off some guy's kids and servants?Is it evil to give permission to kill humans?Is it evil to give permission to torment someone?
>>42894425Let me refer you back up to the comment in which you just responded to, without recognizing any of it's content >>42894416.
>>42893607Isaiah 45:7>I form the light, and create darkness; I make peace, and create evil; I, the Lord, do all these things.Some translations say disaster instead of evil, but according to Tovia Singer (Orthodox Jewish rabbi) it's the same thing, it means evil, the opposite of peace and good. He says God deliberately created the devil to test people, and this is where all evil comes from, i.e. evil exists because God deliberately made it and it is necessary for free will.This is his personal opinion, and I think there is no Jewish dogma on this, but there is at least one non-Gnostic who says that the Jewish/Kabbalistic God is the author of evil. A lot of Jews/Kabbalists and Christians would probably agree with him. Any non-dualist will say that God made evil and is evil (and good). So would pagans. It's not just Gnostics.If you think that God is not evil at all, you need to go with something like proper Orthodox Christianity, not Jewish nonsense.
>>42894426>without recognizing any of it's contentThere is no content in your posts.It's just you in denial.You have avoided everyone of my questions.Is it evil to tell your kid it's okay to commit mass murder over a wager?You wanted a source from the Old Testament, I gave it to you. The Book of Job.
Isaiah 45:7>I form the light, and create darkness: I make peace, and create evil: I the Lord do all these things.
>>42893607Thats because its fuckin obvious. Look around. Theres evil
>>42894431No. "Ra" means disaster, in this context. "Ra" is explicitly juxtaposed with "peace", which means it's clearly not using the "evil" translation.You're posting an intentionally false translation of a passage, which you have to pretend not to understand the basic concept of juxtaposition, in order to pretend the meaning is what you want people to believe. It's a completely false translation. And your argument is "but according to 1 random dude it means this, therefore that means my known false translation is actually correct!" and that's a pretty fucking pathetic retort.
>>42893607You are not invited to my alien vampire ascension club
>>42894433Once more >>42894441. It's a known false translation, which you people post over and over whilst pretending you're too unintelligent to understand basic concepts of a word having 2 meanings, or the use of juxtaposition, which clearly indicates its not intended to mean "evil" in this case.
>>42894441>"Ra" means disasterWhy send disasters to kill off humans?If a human knowingly creates a manmade disaster is that evil?
>>42894447No. Not necessarily. No. Most certainly obviously not.
>>42894448>Most certainly obviously not.It's okay for people to knowingly cause manmade disasters even if it harms others?Really?
>>42894455We're operating on a very childish level right here, where you're pretending not to understand basic concepts of the world we live in. I'm really unimpressed by it. I doubt anyone else is impressed by it, either.
>>42894456You have yet to make a single argument in this entire thread.>>I form the light, and create darkness: I make peace, and create disaster: I the Lord do all these things.If YHWH is bragging about going out of his way to "create disaster" then He is bragging about going out of his way to inflict pain, suffering, and death.You wanted an Old Testament quote, you got it
>>42894461The point of this thread is to dispel your false gnostic claim of יהוה "creating evil", which is a falsehood and which you cannot provide absolutely any evidence for. If we're talking about him "creating disasters" now, like natural disasters, or any others, then you're clearly being childish in your unwillingness to recognize the place where violence justly exists in this plane.
>>42894471>like natural disasterssupernatural, remember YHWH says "I the Lord do all these things"So if you actively put in the effort to cause a disaster that results in suffering, pain, and death is that evil?If a human does something similar like a manmade disaster is that evil?
>>42894477I really have nothing more to write in response to you on this matter, other than >>42894471. That's really the final word on this, where the conversation has devolved in the usual 4chan-meme of one anon just pretending not to be able to understand basic concepts (ie, the justified use of violence in our world) in order to evade having to recognize he was wrong in an internet debate. That's that. There's nothing more to write in response.
"I am an internet anon, and I pretend to be too dumb to understand basic concepts, in order to evade having to recognize when I lost my debate on the internet!" - many, many posters here on this board, and the other ones, too.
>>42894480>really have nothing more to write in response to youI'm still waiting for your first counter argument.You have yet to explain why YHWH invented Satan and chooses not to delete Satan instead of sending Satan to Earth.You have yet to explain why YHWH and Satan teamed up to kill off Job's family over a gambling session.You have yet to explain how creating disasters to inflict suffering and death isn't evil.I would say you have lost this debate, but you never made any arguments so I'm not sure this even counts as a debate.
>>42893607he lies about the tree.. he tried to gatekeep with fear and when he couldnt, he was like, "damn, he is now almost like me".. but "almost", because immortality is the other tree. he gatekept that one much harder. so the real motivation is suppression.that adam would die, is generally obvious as he is mortal, not having become immortal yet. that he would die the "same day", if we even apply generous interpretation that its within 1000 years, as that is one divine day, that too is irrelevant, because he would die anyway.so its a bs excuse. furthermore, isnt he the lord of life, cant he give it, restore it?he cant. cuz he is the demiurge. and regarding your question: he created evil, by splitting adam, the full human, into two, causing polarity (the basis for evil). he created a stumbling block for mankind by pitting it against itself.ask yourself, why does monkhood/nunhood and celibacy exist across the world?yahweh did not create anything. he just modified things. he did not create the waters nor the light, he divided things.he is the enemy of mankind, just look at the fruit of his hands, this reality, full of misery and evil (the little pockets of joy and love are in spite of it all, not because of him)
>>42893607>No one can prove יהוה created evil.He hardens the Pharaoh's heart so he could inflict the ten plagues on an innocent population despite knowing the plagues fail any ways.All of that suffering was for nothing on a population that had no control over the outcome anyways.
>The use of violence can be justified Only as a last resort. Is YHWH incapable of solving problems without violence? Forget the usual Omnipotence stuff, YHWH chooses violence when even a moderately powerful force could have used a cleaner solution.
>>42894471>which you cannot provide absolutely any evidence for.There is no evidence for literally anything of a spiritual nature. The same copes Christians give about the Bible can be used by Gnostics.
>>42893607Then from whence came evil? If God as the Monad is the prime mover and evil exists (it self evidently does), then God must be the source.
>>42893607>No one can prove יהוה created evil.I can't because I don't even think he exists.>>42894441Isaiah 45:7>I form light and create ḥō·šeḵ; I make well-being and create rā‘; I am Yah·weh, who does all these things.Job 1:1>There was a man in the land of Uz whose name was ’î·yō·wḇ, and that man was blameless and upright, one who feared ’ĕ·lō·hîm and turned away from mê·rā‘.Job 3:3–5>“Let the day perish on which I was born, and the night that said, ‘A man is conceived.’ Let that day be ḥō·šeḵ! May ’ĕ·lō·w·ah above not seek it, nor light shine upon it. Let gloom and ḥō·šeḵ claim it. Let clouds dwell upon it; let the blackness of the day terrify it.You're right, in that "author of actual-factual literal moral sin" could be too strong a reading given the juxtaposition, buuut... Yah·weh still claims authorship of the same-rooted thing that ’î·yō·wḇ is praised as a good boy for not doing in the opening line of his story. That's rather uncomfortable, at minimum.There is a lot of 'inciting' going on in these passages:2 Samuel 24:1>Again the anger of Yah·weh was kindled against Israel, way·yā·seṯ David against them, saying, “Go, number Israel and Judah.1 Chronicles 21:1>Then śā·ṭān stood against Israel way·yā·seṯ David to number Israel.Job 2:2–3>“From where have you come?” Said Yah·weh to haś·śā·ṭān.>“From going to and fro on the earth," he replied, "and from walking up and down on it.” And Yah·weh said to haś·śā·ṭān, “Have you considered my servant ’î·yō·wḇ, that there is none like him on the earth, a blameless and upright man, who fears ’ĕ·lō·hîm and turns away from mê·rā‘? He still holds fast his integrity, wat·tə·sî·ṯê·nî against him to destroy him without reason.”With absolutely no prompting, Yah·weh randomly volunteered ’î·yō·wḇ to haś·śā·ṭān and then blamed the latter for it.
