>incredibly old relic has a photonegative image of [presumably, and most likely] jesus christ, impossible to recreate in modern times with high end-tech, as it would require millions of watts in energy>only one of it's kind has ever been recovered and preserved, suggesting that if it were a forgery meant for making a quick buck, why aren't there more of it's exact characteristics>the existance of a shroud perfectly matches the bible accounts of Jesus's body being covered (add the shroud of oviedo if you reject the one-shroud theory)>radiocarbon dating has been altered, as the initial study that reveals it to be from "1200 AD" thereabouts used a part of the shroud which had been contaminated/repaired>even if it was from 1200 AD, how the fuck was the technology that made it available to whomever forged it>recent studies point to it being from asian origin in manufacture, which coincides with the silk road connecting the middle eastThe most obvious conclusion per Occam's Razor, or Sherlock reasoning if you like, is that firstly, the image of the shroud was produced using a miracle, either as consequence or as intended, or both. Secondly, all the evidence in history points to it being Jesus's burial cloth.Finally, if it were a real artifact (it is), it would not be out of God's plan/way to make it in such a way that there is still some room for doubt, as he gave us free will. Printing such an artifact with so much strong evidence would cast away free will to believe in it. After all, blessed are those who believe without having seen.
>>42987057>Printing such an artifact with so much strong evidence would cast away free will to believe in it. After all, blessed are those who believe without having seen.this is an interesting point that is not often brought up. if it were a perfect artifact, as physical evidence, it would directly go against his own teachings, which makes sense. In a digital era so close to science and plagued with atheism and nihilism we need evidence that pulls us closer to god, but the ultimate final bridge is still faith, as it was when he walked earth.
You believe what you want to. Confirmation bias. Personally, I think history is falsified and that the Renaissance movement was controlled opposition. Do I know if this cloth is fake or real? No. But knowing how much deception there is in the world and how Abrahamic religion plays into the NWO agenda, I choose to not believe in Jesus or Christianity. Pic related. People love their idols. People for some reason FEEL they HAVE to worship some external being. I always used to get asked by people ''so which God should I worship?''Uh, none?
>>42987080>b-but what if you're wrong?!Okay? Then your god will judge me. You say he is merciful; hopefully he understands my skepticism with the amount of deception in the world. I'm not gonna let fear rule me like you.
>>42987096last post>Finally, if it were a real artifact (it is)this is why I hate the christians here. Because they're supposedly different from christcuck normies, see I can forgive a lot of normies, but the people here who are aware of the amount of lies we've been conditioned to accept and the amount of history that has been tweakedYou probably believe Hitler was a real dude and not just a temporary character on the world stage to advance the interests of the ''elite'' long-term. You will appeal to authority and history without even questioning it. You should always remain slightly skeptical. Anyone who encourages you to NOT ask questions or research something deeper is a SHILL, period. We go deeper in the trenches, nigga.
>>42987110>but the people here who are aware of the amount of lies we've been conditioned to accept and the amount of history that has been tweakedcontinued: ..for some reason want to automatically appeal to le bible and history. All jokes aside, godspeed OP. You're on your own path and that's cool. I just think you're trying to ragebait though.
why do you care about paper
>>42987125I am not trying to ragebait, I am looking for genuine conversation that points to good evidence against and for it. I am just willing to test my faith. I hope you can find salvation, as I do understand the skepticisim in the world order and paranoia to be possible, but Jesus is Jesus. Remember that he only asks of you to accept him as your savior, as there are many more sin, but rejecting him is by far the worst offense. This, from what I remember.>>42987128This "paper" is the closest evidence besides scripture that points to Jesus's divinity. I would believe in him if it were a fake or not, but it is nice to have physical evidence of supernatural happenings.
This topic will never get genuine discussion because people in /x/ are thruthfully afraid of Christiantiy and the shroud being real. Many of the recent christian threads are filled with trolls that insist on Christianity and Catholicisim being jewish propaganda (I have no idea why they think so when the coming of Christ directly contradicts their views and disregards the old jewish laws) Atheists aren't the wiser either, and continue to point to the ill-intentions of the 1984 carbon dating test which changed last minute from multiple places of the cloth to one of the corners. Since then it has been altered and we will most likely get no good carbon readings on it. Supposedly, the next reading should print out something like it being from 8500AD, which is from 5000 years in the future. I'm not a very big expert on the topic thoughhttps://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hJ1H6Dv8zPY&t=2521s
>>42987145>I am not trying to ragebait, I am looking for genuine conversation that points to good evidence against and for it.Fair enough.. but to me, it seems you have already arrived at your own conclusion in the OP post. You said that it IS a real artifact. >I am just willing to test my faith. I hope you can find salvation, as I do understand the skepticisim in the world order and paranoia to be possible, but Jesus is Jesus.Not really sure what this means; I grew up with many different religions and spiritual belief systems offered to me to ''be set free'' (but mainly Christianity.) You say ''Jesus is Jesus'' but to me, he's just another myth. >Remember that he only asks of you to accept him as your savior, as there are many more sin, but rejecting him is by far the worst offense.And I, if I were him, would never tell people they MUST accept me or suffer eternal torment. It also sounds like he doesn't really like his father.. but the idea that this Yahweh made himself to sacrifice himself to himself is fucking insane and retarded. C'mon now. >This "paper" is the closest evidence besides scripture that points to Jesus's divinity.Okay? And it's bullshit. >I would believe in him if it were a fake or not, but it is nice to have physical evidence of supernatural happenings.Okay; so this thread is fucking pointless. Why can't you people just be honest that you want to proselytize others
>>42987362>he's just another myth.The one with BY FAR the most evidence on earth. >If I were himThere's a reason as to why you're not God, or Jesus for the matter, which are one and the same.>Okay; so this thread is fucking pointlessIt is not. I repeat, I wish to obtain views on why people could think it is a fake artifact.
>>42987336>This topic will never get genuine discussion because people in /x/ are thruthfully afraid of Christiantiy and the shroud being real.I'm not afraid of Jesus; why the fuck would I be afraid of Jesus? According to you guys; he is loving, merciful and understanding. If Jesus WAS real; then that's fucking cool!>Many of the recent christian threads are filled with trolls that insist on Christianity and Catholicisim being jewish propaganda (I have no idea why they think so when the coming of Christ directly contradicts their views and disregards the old jewish laws)Jews aren't at the very top; but yes Abrahamic religion and religion in general by extension are psyops. >N-no!Yes. Maybe I'm wrong but if you can't entertain the idea that YOU might be wrong then I'm not gonna bother with you.>Atheists aren't the wiser either, and continue to point to the ill-intentions of the 1984 carbon dating test which changed last minute from multiple places of the cloth to one of the corners.This goes back to what I said here: confirmation bias. People will believe what they want consciously or subconsciously... I am also a victim of that. My experiences led to me to my belief today. You as well. >Since then it has been altered and we will most likely get no good carbon readings on it. Supposedly, the next reading should print out something like it being from 8500AD, which is from 5000 years in the future.And you'll be dead and long gone before then. You guys will keep waiting and waiting on this guy who will never come and when ''he'' finally does it will be a huge show. Enjoy the Borg world
>>42987391May you find salvation and peace of mind.
>>42987389>The one with BY FAR the most evidence on earth.Like I said before; I don't believe in fake falsified history. My discernment is telling me to be skeptical. I don't believe a LOVING god would do the things Yahweh has done. And Jesus? To me, just another myth. If you want to assume I'm demonically possessed or evil for that, then go ahead.. But I am not. At least I think so. >There's a reason as to why you're not God, or Jesus for the matter, which are one and the same.So now you're getting defensive. Do you know what IF means?>It is not. I repeat, I wish to obtain views on why people could think it is a fake artifact.Like I said; I don't want to assume your intentions but you aren't coming at it from the angle you might be wrong as well; you're assuming you ARE right (the conclusion) and you want people to disprove how you're '''''''right'''''. You can believe what you want, OP. You don't need validation from me or anyone.But please refrain from making disrespectful comments towards me. You'd be VERY surprised to know my life story.. 8 billion people but your ego assumes you're right and you're the most wise. Please go away if you aren't willing to even CONSIDER the idea you're wrong.
>>42987397>salvationVery vague. Salvation to you means a different thing. It means being indebted to a being you will never see or meet. One who sacrifices and hurts others but we have to deny is those things because 'he' is 'mysterious'. >peace of mind.Because I struggle with chronic physical pain, this is hard and I won't say I'm entirely there yet but..It's insane that YOU assume every SINGLE PERSON in this world needs to experience your ''''''awakening''''' to know the truth. You won't even CONSIDER the idea you're also being deceived. No, you want OTHERS to prove how you're wrong. As I said before, I believe history is falsified. Can I prove that? Not really.. But I am aware of who rules over us. Now research deeper! You've arrived at the conclusion the bible is the source material and that's why you fail. You're close-minded without REALIZING it; that is not good.. self-awareness is very important to an awakening. Do I know more altogether? I don't know, but I am aware of things others aren't. You'd be surprised to know the origins of America..You don't think that makes you sound like an egomaniac? Because to me, I'm always willing to learn. That being said; knowing what I know about who rules over me and this reality by extension, I (mostly) remain on the fence when it comes to most ideological 'issues' whether that be politics, spirituality or religion. I was born into a Christian family.. like I said, you'd be very surprised to know my story. But I don't think that matters here desu
>>42987336https://www.catholic.com/magazine/online-edition/shroud-of-turin-full-disclosurehttps://www.mdpi.com/2571-9408/5/2/47The shroud is nearly 2000 years old. We are in the year 2026 after Christ's birth. Using the asian evidence of it's manufacture, it's possible to conclude that it had not been very old at the time of it's usage for wrapping Christ.
>>42987518We're in the year 726 or so because they skipped forward 1000 years (see the i/j before years evidence) and then they skipped about 300 years (see the phantom time theory.)
YOU CAN'T FUCKING TALK TO ME LIKE THAT WHEN I'M A CHRISTIAN THAT DIDN'T MASTURBATE FOR 24 HOURS I'LL PRAY OVER YOUR ASS AND HEAL YOUR SICK GRANDMA
YOU CAN'T SAY SHIT TO A CATHOLIC MONK THAT HASN'T WASTED HIS SEED ON A HOE BODY OF CHRIST, YE OUGHT TO BE LIKE A MONK NIGGESTL;DR I DON'T DRINK, I DON'T SMOKE, I DON'T DO DRUGS. YOU CAN'T FUCKING TALK TO ME LIKE THAT. I'LL PRAY OVER YOUR ASS.
AND IF YOU EVER CATCH ME OFFERING CANNA BOSOM OR OFFERING ANYTHING TO THE LORD GOD ALMIGHTY YHWH THE VIRALEST NIGGA I'LL SAY CURSED BE YOUR MERCHANT IN BROWNIE POINTS SELF
OP, you need to post the chain of posts where a anon went into a hyper autistic analysis about the shroud
>>42987518>xray datingThat's not a real dating technique.
>>42987809? I looked at the archives a couple pages back looking for good threads of the shroud, I haven't found that
>>42987854Wish i had it. They basically go into detail about all the things about the cloak which would be impossible to fake, and he backs up his logic and reasoning very well
>>42987057Even today, with modern techniques, the Shroud cannot be replicated. Only tiny patches of this fabrichttps://rentry.org/shroud-of-turin-27042026/
>>42987057My objection to the shroud is straightforward. It is a very impressive artefact however if it is an image of Christ that comes about when it's wrapped round him we'd see more than his front. His sides would be on it as well that is we'd see his face pointing at us but also his ears too. We'd look into his ear holes.
>>42987971A possible theory is that the way resurrection and ascencion worked, is that the body left immediately in a matter of an instant. This way, the shroud would have been laying flat, allowing for the imprint visible to be made, instead of being airtight pressed around his body, like the blender 3d sim looks.
>>42987057>>42987971
If shroud kikes wanted to prove it's legit, they'd do radiometric dating on a piece they deem to be original. They will never do this though, because it would end their grift.
>>42988020The issue with dating is that it's useless and a mostly void argument. Unless you can explain how the image was made, it doesn't matter if the shroud was forged yesterday or in the Jurassic Period. There's just no available technology to replicate it.
>>42987389A fake book written 100s of years after the supposed death of the person its about, is not evidence. And before you christ faggots hit me with the Greeks or Roman's recorded him as a real person. Fucking show me where it says that from an actual source that isnt some religious nut job site.
>>42987868Its still fucking fake you retard. Thats not how it would look if it was laid across a face. You fucking faggots are so stupid.
>>42987795>fed/glowie comes into the thread to make Ai generated slop fake versions of the card game which has accurately disclosed a lot of planned events over the years that I postedNice fucking try, loser.
>>42987995kek
>>42988096This thread was already pooped on by me before you guys. I said it before: CONFIRMATION BIAS. No point in arguing with each other.. unless you want to of course.
>>42988040If it's not 2000 years old, then it's a hoax and of no interest to anyone. >Unless you can explain how the image was madeLets just go with the shroud grifter explanation that it was made by wrapping it around a corpse.If the corpse wasn't Rabbi Yeshua's, why is anyone supposed to care about this soiled cloth?
>>42988118It does matter how it was made. It being impossible to make via modern tech implies that whomever made it has access to supernatural magic or technology beyond 10,000 years in the future. Therefore, whatever the dating tests result in is futile (though most point to 2000 years back) because the only possible explanation is that this was made as a byproduct of Jesus resurrection.>>42988096Because the supernatural imprint has to match natural tests, correct? People can't grasp the concept of the holy trinity, me included, because it goes beyond the natural. It is divine in origin. It obviously would not make sense, but it also is obviously not painted as all scientific evidence suggests, it's impossible it's any sort of paintjob.
Why the fuck is everybody talking about the Shroud of Turin these past few days, this is like the fifth time in two days I've seen discussion of it. I go into the yt comments on a fucking It's Always Sunny in Philedelphia clip and there's people arguing about the Shroud of Turin. What is happening?
>>42987995Can't unsee this now lmao
>>42987854>>42987868
Even it it were fake, it's still an interesting historical artefact just for the mystery of how it was made. Pic somewhat related.
>>42988658I agree. I would like to know how it was made. And I would like them to test the age again. It's weird that they won't let them test it again.
>>42987057Even if it's real, all it would prove is that Jesus was magic and was able to revive.It does not prove that Paul is accurate and trustworthy, or that he really encountered him. It does not prove John of Patmos had real visions and that Revlation is accurate. It does not prove that John is accurate and that he claimed to be the son of god. I dose'nt prove the bibke in it's current form is what we should he following. It dose'nt prove that the gnostics were heretics or that we shouldn't be following them instead. All that it would prove is that a magical man who preformed miracles was able to revive from the dead. And that is extraordinary and might very well mean he is divine, it does not by default prove the current modern version of Christianity to be accurate.
>>42988745It's not even a convincing fake. It looks like a medieval artist's interpretation of what Jesus should look like. It's obviously just artwork.The Sasquatch video is more convincing.
>>42988753Even if the shroud is real and Jesus revived, it is very unlikely that Exodus is true. Egyptians have no record of it and the story dose'nt even name a Phar6oh. A split rock dose'nt prove Exodus.Making your mythology real and treating it as literal history is retarded.
>>42988769You think they would record that all their firstborn sons were killed, their army was dropped, and most of their crops and cattle were killed, and their slaves ran off with plunder?
>>42988763Unrelated retarded argument. I don’t believe the shroud is anything but a forgery, but bringing this kind of argument into the mix is completely dishonest.
>>42987057The shroud doesn't matter to me, I've got a different sense of value. I'd say it is evil to present the thing if it isn't his, it resembles the face of Norman king paintings to do with England, so I'm inclined to believe it was a body from a royal clout chaser rather than Jesus. The artifacts aren't as important as finding all the hidden meaning behind his parables. The thing could have been placed on top of a sculpture and sat long enough for the forms to stain the fabric.
>>42988763Every culture has a flood myth. There was a massive amount of flooding when all the ice melted in the Younger Dryas. Just because your tradition as has a flood myth, does not defaultly prove that everything else int the Torah is also accurate. Especially when it's clear that the flood myth is lifted from earlier texts with exact parallels. It's repeated in Gilgamesh. Also clearly you don't know how mountains are formed.
>>42988787Care to debunk this >>42988518What's your issue with it?
>>42988782Yes I do. I think if the Exodus story was real and the plagues of Egypt were real, someone besides the Jews who wrote the story about themselves and their god, would have mentioned it.They may frame it that one of their own gods had curse them and had their own mythology about the events, but they would have been mentioned. They would have told stories.
>>42988806
>>42987110>>42987391Nigger you've said the Shroud is a real artifact if one breath and then said Jesus is fake the next. So which is it? Or are you just schitzo?
an organization gave you a convincing thing to convince you of its legitimacy. thats you're epistempic vantage point, other than pointing to inner spiritual insight. if your reasoning is from inner revelation, own it.
>>42988782And again, proving one thing true does not prove the rest of it.and it doesn't prove that your current version of Christianity is the proper interpretation. It dose'nt prove that the Jews aren't right about their own prophecies and that Jesus dose'nt fulfill them. It dose'nt prove that the Muslims aren't right. It dose'nt prove that the gnostics aren't right.You can't just say thing exists, therefore everything I believe about thing is true and accurate and the rest things said about thing are also true.
>>42988812You're going to have to be more specific about what that is and make an actual argument. There's an Egyptian chariot wheel under water? What does it imply or prove?
>>42988759glow.
>>42988800No. I have no idea what you are even asking about. I was saying that limestone being on top of Mt. Everest isn’t related to the thread topic. Which it isn’t. If you’d like to start a thread about why fossils being on top of Mt. Everest isn’t evidence of a global flood, I’d be happy to respond to it in more detail. I could note the evidence of metamorphism or relevant paleostratigraphy techniques in conjunction with radiometric dating correlations. But it’s not relevant to the topic of the shroud of Turin.
>>42988745I guess part of the problem is that discusing what the miracle means for a gnostic , a shaman or an atheist is an entire different circus.so its somewhat imposible to talk about without ignoring another perspective.
>>42988844But it's extremely relevant. People are looking at the shroud to confirm their bias and support a pre constructed world view they already hold.My point is, even if the shroud is real your next goal should be to do a deep dive and try your best to gimme the truth anout what really happened, not just assume everything you already believe is true and now confirmed. But that's not how most people work.This is my whole problem with like apologetics. You already assume your right based on a worldview you accept of faith. I have my problems with the other side too. The atheists ect. And I think it's a human thing to try and confirm your worldview instead of truly trying to determine the real truth.
>>42988230Why are you fucking cucks even on this board. Your so fucking stupid it hurts me to read what you're typing. The out line of the body doesn't match it was laid on top of your stupid sand faggot week isn't even white.
>>42988837Ape sama: There are a series of drowned golden chariots wheels scattered in the location that Ron Wyatt has documented other archaelogical sites of Israels journey through the desert. In other words - this is the exodus story.
>>42988998>basalt is black because it is burnt by god>but only on this one mountain topYou should really stay on topic to the shroud of Turin if you aren’t trolling.
>>42988518To all the skeptics and shit talkers- thoughts? Honest thoughts, dont just skim through it either
>>42989053>modern recreations have provided multiple explanations for how a similar shroud could have been forged during the period it was said to have been made>conducted recreations differ in small details, suggesting that an as of yet untested but similar method was likely used
>>42988820>Nigger you've said the Shroud is a real artifact if one breathno lole
>>42987057>>incredibly old relic has a photonegative image of [presumably, and most likely] jesus christ, impossible to recreate in modern times with high end-tech, as it would require millions of watts in energyIf Jesus had electric powers like the black chick from X-men, I think that would have been mentioned once or twice in the bible.
>>42987995Incredibly based.>>42988040It is a rubbing of a medieval grave effigy. Schizophrenic losers like OP want to claim there are some crazy ass properties that aren’t replicated by that. There aren’t.There’s no references to it before the medieval period and even at that point they thought it was fake. Nicolas Oresme in the 1370s and Bishop Pierre d’Arcis in the 1380s both debunk it.>photonegative that needs immense energy to recreateNo, you can do this very easily with normal art products. It’s just light shining on things that throws a negative if the image.
As of my typing this the cognitive centers A And B have been initiating equal communication C. There have been no A/B challenges. All is well until I end observation and hit enter.
It is fake. Let me explain. At that time in Israel, the dead were not wrapped in cloth but in bandages and a towel was placed over the face. And you can read all that clearly: in the part where the death of Lazarus is described JOHN 1143 When he had said this, Jesus called in a loud voice, “Lazarus, come out!” 44 The dead man came out, his hands and feet wrapped with strips of linen, and a cloth around his face.Jesus said to them, “Take off the grave clothes and let him go.”>>READ IT IDIOTS , READ IT. IF LAZARUS WAS WRAPED IN SEPARATE CLOTHS/BANDAGES AND SEPARATE TOWEL ON FACE , CHRIST IS ALSO WAS WRAPED SAME... BUT I LEAVE TO YOU TO RESEARCH ON THAT...John 20 Then Simon Peter came along behind him and went straight into the tomb. He saw the strips of linen lying there, 7 as well as the cloth that had been wrapped around Jesus’ head. The cloth was still lying in its place, separate from the linen. >>FUCK YOU DRAGON AND YOUR DAMN LIES.. TORIN SHROUD IS FSKE AND PATHETIC.. I WILL DESTROY YOU WITH POWER OF ALMIGHTY GOD..
>>42987336>disregards the old jewish lawsWrong
>>42989703>Schizophrenic losers like OPhey don't associate our good name with obvious catholic shills.
ALL RELICS ARE SATAN WORSHIPING IDOLS. AND ALMIGHTY GOD HATE THEM ALL.
>>42988096Yea it is a 2D image of what should have looked very different if it was on a 3D face of a corpse. Saying it's a miracle that it is 2d is such a cop out it is unbelievable. It's a fake (which doesn't prove anything either way BTW, all the other fake artifacts never stopped people from believing)
>>42987057>After all, blessed are those who believe without having seen.No, they are not blessed at all, but just stupid. The bible frames a person who simply beleives in those wild claims as having faith, but that is just a manipulative way to say that they are dumb and they will beleive in anything so they are "blessed". I mean, if you are a person who wants to push this religion and dogmas how are you going to call another person who believes in everything that you say without any proof? You will call that a blessing. Christians are not blessed with the capacity to believe in, that is pure BS. Christians are just stupid and they lack critical thinking skills and even if the christian has a little bit of chritical thinking skills if he is not really seeking the truth we will never pass over that bible verse that commands the believer to NOT TRUST their own critical thinking skills, but trust the bible instead. Having critical thinking skills become a sin! The bible frames having critical thinking skills as something which you should not really put your trust in, but trust the prophet, bro, trust the jews who wrote the bible and trust the politicians of Rome and the priests who compiled this current version of the bible that we use. It's not like they manipualted it to fit their narrative and shit. Nah, just have faith. After all, you guys are blessed. But no, you are just stupid. That is the truth.
>>42989082Nothing similar at all. It needs to mimic the full properties of the shroud, add to it the herbs only found at Jerusalem, etc. Even then, this so called forger would have access to techniques no one else in the whole history of the world has been able to pull off. Not to mention they cared about photonegatives 700 years (assuming it is from 1300) before the first cameras. It's retarded, and still does not debunk the series of posts from the image >>42988518
>>42987057Are you aware of how many relics there are floating around?
>>42987057It was partially recreated in the 2000s by just painting an image of a guy on a glass pane and leaving it out under the sun over a tan sheet. The sun faded the sheet where the glass was clear but left the original coloration under the painted part of the glass. The 3D photonegative effect was reproduced as a result of the changing angle of the sun through the sky across the days that the sheet was exposed. This likewise explained the lack of a dye used to paint the image because there were no dyes needed, the sun bleached cloth was naturally colored through contrasting the sun bleached and shadowed portions.That's not even bringing up that the priest who discovered it literally said he found the guy who fabricated it who admitted that it was fabricated and that the geometry of the image is inaccurate to how a wrapped cloth would contact with a human body.Shits both fake and gay.
https://shroudphotos.com/If you actually try to remake the story of the shroud, it all makes sense. The earliest period would be Jerusalem, around 30 AD. The burial cloth described in the Gospels matches a long linen sheet. The weave of the linen Shroud (a herringbone twill) has actually been identified in other first-century Judean textiles.John 20:6–7 describes two separate burial cloths. The larger linen wrapping and a smaller face cloth folded apart, precisely matching the Shroud of Turin and the Sudarium of Oviedo, which both have 120 matching points across forensic analysis (I will only cover the shroud as they did not travel together).After the crucifixion, there are no early Christian writings that mention a miraculous image, but that silence makes sense if it was kept hidden for fear of desecration or Jewish purity laws. Many of the early Jerusalem Christians fled to Antioch or Edessa after 66 AD.Early oral traditions and Syriac texts describe Addai, one of the Seventy, bearing Christ’s image to King Abgar of Edessa after the Resurrection. Regardless of location, the image would have stayed hidden during the intense persecutions of the first three centuries. Publicly venerating something that directly connected to Jesus’ crucifixion would have drawn dangerous attention, so the image may have been guarded quietly until Christianity was legalized under Constantine in the 4th century. At this point in time, the city of Edessa had legends of a “tetradiplon” image of Christ, a cloth “folded in four.” The Shroud actually has fold marks consistent with being folded that exact way, so that only the face was visible.cont.
>>42990324Then in 544 AD, Edessa suddenly claims to possess a miraculous image of Jesus not made by human hands. This firmly describes the Shroud of Turin under earlier names "Image of Edessa" or "Mandylion". In 944 it was taken to Constantinople, and an official homily describing the event says you could see “not only the face but the figure of the whole body.” That fits the Shroud perfectly when it’s unfolded. Several Byzantine texts and depictions after that time show the exact same facial proportions and markings we now see on the Shroud.After the Fourth Crusade in 1204, a French knight named Othon de la Roche reportedly took relics from Constantinople back to France. A chronicler of that period actually described seeing “The shroud in which our Lord had been wrapped” displayed in the Blachernae church, showing the figure of Christ’s body. Then noted that after the sack, “No one knows what became of it.” A century later, the Shroud turns up in the hands of a French knight’s family in Lirey. The connection between those names and families is real. In 1453, Marguerite de Charny (granddaughter of the first public owner, Geoffroi de Charny) officially transferred it to Duke Louis I of Savoy.In 1532 there was chapel fire in Chambéry. The Shroud was inside a silver case that melted, and drops of molten metal burned through the folded cloth which is visible today, yet the image itself somehow survived. The Poor Clare nuns sewed triangular patches over the burn holes and attached a reinforcing backing cloth. Later, when carbon dating was done in 1988, the sample was taken from one of the repaired corners, the exact area that had been woven and contaminated by centuries of repairs and smoke damage. That explains why the test produced a medieval date. More recent (Non-destructive) chemical and textile analyses suggest the original linen dates to around the first century AD (±300 years), matching the historical timeline rather than the medieval one.
>>42990326Beyond history, the physical evidence gets harder to dismiss. Pollen on the surface and woven into the linen matches plants that grow only around Jerusalem, Edessa, and Anatolia. All of which are places the relic is said to have been kept. The image itself isn’t painted, dyed, or burned in. It’s a surface discoloration that only affects the outermost linen fibrils. No pigment, no brush strokes. Under photographic negative (first discovered in 1898), it produces a perfect positive image. This alone is something no medieval artist could’ve even conceptualized.Modern attempts to reproduce the image with lasers, heat, acid, or light have failed to duplicate its precise 3D depth encoding or superficiality. The Shroud shows detailed anatomical accuracy a medieval artist couldn’t have known: blood flows consistent with gravity, wounds exactly where Roman flagrum strikes would land, and nail marks through the wrists (not the palms as depicted in medieval art which wouldn't support bodyweight).Anyone that denies the evidence that vouches for the shroud and the sudarium of Oviedo is not doing enough research. It's the same with sciences. A sip of the glass will make you an atheist, but at the bottom God is waiting for you. Realize this.
>>42990330Thoughts skeptics/ shit talkers?
>>42988998lil bro brings Ron Wyatt into the table and thinks he did something.This guy is an absolute fraud, proven multiple times, not only by the evil cabbala of untrustworthy scientist but by his own family. If you believe anything Wyatt says you're nothing but retarded.https://tentmaker.org/articles/sow7-a-great-christian-scam/
>>42987057Yepp, 40% hindu DNA. Totes jebus
>>42991575your recollection of the "history" of this forgery notoriously lacks the words of Pierre D'arcis, Henri de Poitiers, Nicolas Oresme and a lot of other people who denounced it at as fake.If you only take into account the part that says it's real, obviously it will be real, but it's a delusional take that doesn't take reality into account.Also you aren't taking into account the tests of Carbon-14 that say the shroud must be from between the late 1200's to mid 1300's. Coincidentally being that the time this forgery first appeared in recorded history.
>>42987145>This "paper" is the closest evidence besides scripture that points to Jesus's divinitySo what? Japan has three treasures as evidence too. Nobody cares.
>>42991790Don't worry he'll ignore this too and keep posting this >>42991575
>blessed are those who believe without having seentotally not just a shitty cult that got super popular btw
>>42991809Im not ignoring it, I just wanted to hear honest thoughts from all the shit talkers is all. Not even Christian BTW
>>42991790>delusional>appeal to authority
>>42987057>but it's a delusional take that doesn't take reality into account.A reality where rushed and experimental genetherapy is not just somehow vaccine but safe and effectiveA reality where pragmatic nation during war time somehow cremated 6 million people even if its mathematically impossible
>>42990217>the priest who discovered it literally said he found the guy who fabricated itI can't find anything about this. Source?>>42990324>>42989770So which is it? Did they use linen cloths as opposed to strips or not?
>>42991986meant for >>42991790 obviouslyNTA but the carbon tests were outed as performed in a part of the shroud that was clearly repaired in medieval times hence the medieval result. It was taken into account in the story recollection of the shroud.>>42992115"Joseph of Arimathea took the body of Jesus down from the cross and wrapped it in a clean linen cloth (or shroud). Matthew, Mark, and Luke all note that a clean linen cloth was used (Matthew 27:59, Mark 15:46, Luke 23:53)"John does say that it was strips, however he unadvertedly vouches for the shroud's authenticity and the existance of the sudarium in it's same paragraph: "In the Gospel of John, Joseph of Arimathea and Nicodemus bound the body in strips of linen (linen cloths) together with a **heavy mixture of myrrh and aloes** (about 75 pounds or 34 kilograms). This followed traditional Jewish burial customs (John 19:40)"This heavy mixture of myrrh and aloes is directly present in the studies performed on the shroud where it is revealed that the account of myrrh and aloe is true; https://urfpublishers.com/journal/case-reports/article/view/holy-shroud-in-turin-bloodstains-on-the-necks-nape-and-possible-traces-of-myrrhhttps://www.researchgate.net/publication/310496363_Pollen_on_the_Shroud_of_Turin_The_Probable_Trace_Left_by_Anointing_and_EmbalmingTherefore, I am inclined to believe John was merely being a bit more descriptive. The Synoptics provide a fast-paced overview. They focus on the immediate action taken by Joseph of Arimathea right after he took Jesus down from the cross. John provides a more detailed, inside look into the final preparation. He reveals that Nicodemus joined Joseph and brought 75 pounds of spices. John explains how they applied them: they bound the spices into the folds of the linen strips. A full shroud was used, but also strips to tie bodyparts as well, most likely.
>>42989770>>42992115Also as addendum, Christ was not Lazarus. Joseph and Nicodemus were in a fat hurry, they had to get the wrapping done before Shabat arrived. Whilst Lazarus had much more time, which took approximately an hour and a half to two hours, for Jesus the constraint was much quicker. Jesus died at 3 PM, and Lucas 23:54 mentions the beginning of Shabat on the rise just as they were done transporting him. You need to examine the whole, not focus on the bits.
>>42992387Luke in English, Lucas in Latin. Oops.
>>42991790>if the apostles didn't write about the color of jesus sandals, we can certainly say they were rainbow colored crocs.This is how stupid you sound. Please hear yourself. Christians were insanely pursued and prosecuted for a whole millenia. Who are you to say that the data records of said shroud have not been recovered yet. We conveniently don't have any recollection of said bishops or the supposed artist behind the shroud. In all likelyness, said artist does not exist, because we haven't been able to replicate the full characteristics of the shroud in modern technology, with a 1 million dollar prize behind it. This is approximatey a mathematical prize that has not been solved.
>>42991644>https://tentmaker.org/articles/sow7-a-great-christian-scam/>Some random blog with a few thousand views makes up slanderous claims and gives absolutely zero proof of any of them.That's your proof really? Ronn Wyatt shows you photos of golden chariot wheels among many other archaeological sites, and you just link a boomer blog that rants and rambles but gives no proof of any of his claims?As a connoisseur of /pol/ I find it quite intriguing that Ron's discoveries were made in 1977-1978 and recieved American media attention, followed by the release of Indiana Jones movies in 1981, 1984 and 1989. And yet Ronn is the one who gets accused of being Indiana Jones, when he was the original. The author is shocked that Christian celebrities use booking agents. Yes of course they do. This isnt news. Just like churches have secretaries and accountants and landscapers.
>>42992449By that same standard we can say that the data behind the christian artist and the bishops weren't found because christians were prosecuted too much. Also, we also don't know how Greek Fire was made exactly. Doesn't mean it was magic. You're arguing to gaps my bro. And your shitty mocking of my argument doesn't even make sense 'cause at no point did I say "the apostles didn't write about the shroud", I said that there are data contradicting the reliability of the shroud. So totally the opposite of your greentext.
>>42992808bold of you to assume that I'm an atheist just because I don't believe in a jewish-born faith. Christianism is the cuck version of being jew.
>>42992299The argument that the sample taken was invalid because they took it from a repaired part doesn't sit well with me.The Catholic Church didn't let other parts of the shroud to be tested, so now they have plausible deniability."You tested it and the result gave a date from between late 1200's to mid 1300's, but that's because it was repaired at that point".If that's true, then tests of carbon-14 should give heavily different results if taken from a non-repaired part. But they won't allow it, first because of its status as a religious icon, which fair, but also because it would most likely demonstrate its falsehood.
>>42991949>no argumentI normally don't say this but cope
>>42992808>Le protocolsGo deeper, daddy~https://allreligionsareone.org/The%20Protocols.xhtml
>>42987995OP fucking bodied
>>42987057>this old relic has been debunked several times over>DiSpRoVe It!"Bitch what. Occam's Razor requires the fewest amount of leaps in logic. "Miracles" is an enormous leap. Occam's Razor would also point to a hoax.If this was wrapped around an individual, the image would have been warped, and if it was Jesus it wouldn't look like a goddamn European man.
>>42987391Grow up, dork.
>>42992837GOOD MORNING SARRRRRR
>>42989053>Ok, our pedo cultist is dead>We need to find his body>Where the fuck is his body>Find some random crucifixion victim among other crucifixion victims in some burial hole outside Jerusalem who looks similar to their pedo in a potato sack>That's not our prophet>His face and physique is different>Put crown of thorns on head>Now he is>Cloth him in a shroud and carry him in a cave where they continue worshiping this body as if it were their dead pedo>2026 years later>That's Jaysuuuuussssss, you fucksWhat you see is a shroud of a man who was a crucifixion victim in Jerusalem at about 1st century AD. You conclude it's Jesus because the cultists, who may have a certain agenda, say so.Simple as that.
I've heard that DaVinci actually discovered the chemical process for photography but obviously didn't have or understand the need for a flash bulb to speed up the process. Instead you could just sit still for hours and your image would be recorded on a cloth. So the theory is that it's actually Leonardo DaVincis full image on the shroud of Turin.
>>42993732Its a sun exposed image, autophotography. it's absolutely not da vinci or any other real person, it was made from a sculptural relief or something and does not accurately 3d wrap to human features..
>>42987057>asian originYezo / Hokkaido - Yesus died in Japan>even if it was from 1200 ADmakes sense, because at least 1000 years are completely made up
>>42987057>The most obvious conclusion per Occam's Razor, or Sherlock reasoning if you like, is that firstly, the image of the shroud was produced using a miracle, either as consequence or as intended, or both.SureIt's a trick from Satan to get people to put faith in material items.
>>42994510>It's a trick from Satan to get people to put faith in material items.new canon just dropped
>>42995122lmfao this. Let's not adore relics or praise them per sé, they're just evidence of Jesus/God. For us Thomas's. On the contrary, wouldn't Satan NOT want you to believe in Jesus?
>>42989609There is a moment called the Epiphany from what I recall where Jesus shows Himself in bright light to two of the apostles and Moses and Elijah stand besides Him
>>42989791It is about the merit of your act of faith. If it is obvious you have little merit of agreeing to that which is evident. But faith is also a personal and a rational act. Jesus talked repeatedly about His resurrection so people had a reason to believe it should happen as it was not just hearsay. Jesus also resurrected Lazarus, a little girl and the son of a widow before being crucified so there was a precedent to the miracle. When scientists use the inductive method trying to "prove" something, they put faith in the most plausible explanation that fits the best though correspondence might not be entirely certain
>>42994510>meanwhile the Ark of the Covenant in the Old Testament>also the Holy Temple with statues of Cherubim around
>>42987057If you observe all of the evidence, it leaves no room for doubt.
>>42996297>Let's not adore relics or praise them per sé, they're just evidence of Jesus/God.buddy if anything it just shows how you guys will make up any explanation on the fly to explain away an inconsistency in your belief system
>>42996410>Jesus also resurrected Lazarusyes that is the 'story'
>>42996297>they're just evidence of Jesus/God.you do realize that many people in this thread explained how the shroud was most likely fake only for everyone to get ignored so you guys can shill more script-ure
>>42996592>only for everyone to get ignored so you guys can shill more script-ureliterally everybody got adressed in some shape or form. You still fundamentally cannot prove or produce the way the image imprint was produced. You will never win until that happens
they had AI look at the shroud and depict what the man looked like and this was it
>>42987076people often claim that proof of God/Christ would break 'free will' and that's why we can never have it but the Old and New testaments are full of people who directly communicate with God and/or witness direct miracles and still refuse to believe or disobey.
>>42987057I think jesus was only like early 30s when he died. This is just some random old dude. Having long hair and a beard and being skinny doesn't mean that you're automatically jesus. This isn't like an elvis impersonation contest where people just have to kind of fit the bill. We aren't saying, "oh man this kind of looks like jesus." We are saying this is jesus. There is a difference. The standard for accuracy is increased. So the fact that jesus was only supposed to have been 33 when he died marters. It matters a fucking lot.
>>42997563Oh man i made a typo that says marters. It's a sign. Oh wait no, the correct spelling is martyrs. See accuracy matters.
>>42997526 That beard is Immaculate. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5TJJnon3uio
>>42987076Thats a funny way of saying that it's dubious>>42987057Even a christian should see that this is fertile ground for grifting. Studies are inconclusive, so nobody knows its origins. Jumping to miracles for explaining anything is always a last resort, not the first. "Someone forged it" is infinitely more plausible, given the lack of information. Barely anything is known about the shroud to be able to draw a conclusion. God being able to trick us doesn't prove or disprove the shroud one way or the other.
