do you guys know that jesus died 33 CE and that gnosticism started to exist between 70 to 140 CE. the likehood of jesus being some sort of gnostic teacher is rather low to zero
>>43008409Your knowledge is limited. The accepted (incorrect) time frame is 100 to 200 BCE. The actual time frame if you trace the lineage back to Egypt and the Rosy Cross formation brings you to 1500 BCE. Yes, they prepared for the coming messiah. Yes, they described him before his arrival. Yes, they accurately predicted his ministry and his death. Knowing this will take time and research. Gnosticism has deep roots. The journey is important if you want it to mean something. The path to gnosis is a series of steps that expand consciousness and knowledge. Knowing and becoming.
To give you some more points to follow. Jesus of Nazareth was a Nazarene. The Nazarenes were an Essene sect that originated in Egypt, taking many of their mystery teachings from the priests of Akhenaten. His disciples were also Essene, but some were scribes, which was the southern Essene sect. At this point, anyone who has spent serious time unraveling the full corruption of the bible as it is today will agree that Jesus and his disciples were Essenes (minus Paul, he was a trojan horse brother of darkness) and that the current Bible has been sanitized of his true teachings, his true path to righteousness. The conspiracy runs so deep that there were people during and prior to his life trying to destroy him, hide his teachings and alter the Canon. You only get fragments of the essence of his teachings from the NT. To fully understand the context and the true story, it's going to take time.
>>43008491absolutely schizophrenic
>>43008530yes, is probably that jesus was somehow related to the essenes, but both teachings are different regardless
>>43008409We don’t care about when Jesus died how are you being of service?
>>43008409"They" made Jesus a "god man" when he was just an ascendant teacher, and they took a bunch of stuff he taught and cut it out of their "official" bible.
>>43008409Do you know about fruit evolution?
>>43008409Do u know that jesus never existed at all and the gospels were written between 70 to 140 CE. the likelihood of jesus being some sort of gnostic teacher does not apply at all.
>>43008409The whole story was made up by Neo-platonists.
>>43008409All the gnostic stuff is sourced from Egypt, major red flag
>>43009336wrong, made up by a bunch of spiteful jews
>>43009356>wrong because jewsAnon, they can be both jewish and neo-platonic. Don't you know that the Torah was heavily influenced by Plato's Republic? They wouldn't even exist if not for Plato.
>>43009359most anything western would not exist without plato
>>43009359They existed before the greeks but had a lot more in common with the other semitics (especially the chaldeans) before they contacted and absorbed Hellenic cultural artifacts.
>>43009304>>43009257>>43009073>>43008740>>43009356wow, /x/ is truly full of retards
>>43009858That's not an argument.
>>43009900i do not argument with retards
What's interesting to me is that the apocryphon of John seems to have been initially written without the Christian elements. Makes me wonder what it was about Jesus and his apostles that made the gnostics feel like they needed to incorporate them into their writings.
>>43010108Good man. It doesn´t seem like there is much else left but them now, though. Alas.
>>43010136>Makes me wonder what it was about Jesus and his apostles that made the gnostics feel like they needed to incorporate them into their writings.Results. They healed people and prophesied the future. They performed miracles seen by many. You can just picture the pharisees seething, arguing over the laws and how to get rid of Jesus and his apostles.
>>43008409I don't know about the others but Clement claimed for the Valentinians the idea was Paul>Theudas>Valentinus and for the Basilides their claim was Peter>Glaucius>Basilides.
>>43008409He was more similar to the essenes who were the proto-gnostics. Jesus is more similar to the gnostics who dominated Christianity at its founding than the modern churches today.
>>43008409My personal theory is that Gnosticism was the product of the Judaizer sect opposed by Paul. Early rabbinic literature shares some similarities with some early Gnostic literature which is well known as the earliest Gnostics are likely to have been syncretistically Jewish rather than Christian, likewise Paul's own language is superficially similar to some of the language found in Gnostic sources (and I do want to stress superficially, what Paul means by things like "the pleroma of the Godhead" is not the same thing as the Gnostic Pleroma but the similarity of context speaks to some kind of connection if even a distant and uncertain one).The more Christian, Gnostic and Jewish ancient literature you read there's clearly a spectrum of influences going back and forth and the most natural, in my opinion, breaking point is when Paul took a stand against the Judaizers and won the other Apostles and Apostolic church to his side. The Judaizers being thus no longer welcome among the Christians and likely having no place for them back in the Rabbinic establishment then had nowhere to go but to crystalize around one another. This would explain why Jesus entered into Gnosticism at all. Valentinus, IMO, isn't enough to explain it. But those are just my speculations based on intuition from my own personal study. >>43010973> Jesus is more similar to the gnosticsJesus, so long as you're using the New Testament as your source, has almost nothing similar to Gnosticism in his teaching. Arguably Paul is more Gnostic just based on vocabulary but in actual belief and practice neither could be described as a Gnostic. Jesus in the New Testament fits very comfortably next to figures like Samuel and Elijah in the Old and nearly everything He teaches comes right out of either Moses or Isaiah. You would just have to be ignorant of Old Testament literature to think Jesus is Gnostic.Or assert that Old Testament literature is itself Gnostic which would be absurd.
>>43011143Add to that the odd fact that there is Gnostic influence on the Quran and the Quran quotes and alludes EXTENSIVELY to Talmudic and Rabbinic literature it's odd that the compilers of the Quranic literature had both Rabbinic and Gnostic literature hanging around AND an active desire to merge the two it demonstrates, though after-the-fact, that there was some level of cross contamination accessible or permissible or otherwise available to people who were conscious of both. And yeah, you can't really go to the 7th century and retroactively make statements about the 1st century, but why are Christian gnostic sources doing hanging around with highly arcane Rabbinic literature when the two should have been experiencing 6 centuries of divergence and why do they end up fused into the same book at the end of it?You can't prove anything but it raises questions about what the earlier relationships may have been.
>>43011143>Gnosticism was the product of the Judaizer sect opposed by PaulVery odd opinion when the Gnostics have a pretty consistently low view of the Jewish law, at least when it's interpreted plainly, and the guy the heresiologists allege was the founder of Gnosticism, Simon Magus, is said by Irenaeus to have taught that:>The prophets uttered their predictions under the inspiration of those angels who formed the world; for which reason those who place their trust in [Simon] and Helena no longer regarded them, but, as being free, live as they please; for men are saved through his grace, and not on account of their own righteous actions. For such deeds are not righteous in the nature of things, but by mere accident, just as those angels who made the world, have thought fit to constitute them, seeking, by means of such precepts, to bring men into bondage."Which, to the extent that it isn't polemically exaggerated, is further in Paul's direction and away from the Judaizers' direction than Paul himself went.>Or assert that Old Testament literature is itself Gnostic which would be absurd.Well, unlike the Marcionites, Gnostics typically did use the OT. They just didn't take for granted the most obvious way of reading it, and instead took it allegorically (as the Simonians did, going by Hippolytus' extensive quotation of one of their works, despite Ireneaus implying that they disregarded the OT entirely), or by assigning different parts to different gods even though they claim to be from the same god, or by supposing that only certain parts were just plain wrong and/or added by people without any divine influence.
>>43011238In fact Simon appears so much like Paul in some sources that there's a whole theory about Simon and Paul being rooted in the same historical person, with Simon Magus being a demonization of him by his opponents, and "Saul of Tarsus" being what happened when the orthodox eventually adopted him and de-Gnosticized him.
>>43011211Maybe because Islam was an artificial religion, constructed secretly by the Rabbinate at the time as a way to destroy their two rivals, the Greeks and the Persians, who were persecuting them harshly, to the point that Heraclius ordered the forcible conversion of every Jew in the Roman Empire. Likewise, the Persians were also heavily persecuting the Jews in Babylon.Read the Secrets of Rabbi Shimon Bar Yochai. It's 9th century pseudopigrapha, but it boasts of how Islam saved Jewery from destruction, and that one day, "Rome" (Christendom) would reclaim the Holy Land.
>>43011238>Very odd opinion when the Gnostics have a pretty consistently low view of the Jewish law, at least when it's interpreted plainly,I won't argue against that but I simply don't know how else to clearly explain why Jesus got adopted into Gnostic thought in a way that makes sense to me in light of how I view Gnosticism as natively Jewish. There's a move toward wanting to explain / incorporate Jesus and that begs the question - why do they feel that's necessary? It would be necessary if they already in the proto-gnostic millieu AND already are a part of a Christian sectarian movement. But if you or anyone disagrees and thinks I'm going off into nutso-land I don't begrudge it. It's my own speculation. As for Irenaeus, I generally don't trust him. This is the guy who claims it is a matter of apostolic tradition that Jesus died in his mid 50's and he builds a whole soteriological system on the redemption of the elderly on it. Something I don't think any other early writer even hints at. He has other things here and there across his writing that make me want to ignore him as an authority. Justin Matyr falsely reports that there was a statue to Simon Magus in Rome, confusing the identity of a local roman deity for Simon and I think that speaks to the fact that he was viewed superstitiously and less as a historical man to report facts about. > Which, to the extent that it isn't polemically exaggerated, is further in Paul's direction and away from the Judaizers' direction than Paul himself went.If Irenaeus is accurate on this point I would agree with you and grant that's a serious blow against my thought but like I said, I just don't trust the guy and I don't really trust anything said about Simon Magus. >>43011320I've never read that before. I'll put it on my list. I'm not sure I'm ready to go all in on Islam being a deliberate creation of Rabbis, I'm much more comfortable with the standard Revisionist view of the Qurans origins.
>jesus is a faggot therefore this religion that has a near infinite number of variants would not be real because a 5% of it is Christian Lmao Demiurge died, btw>No butThe real religion was Horror Gnosticism, a religion where Jesus doesnt fucking exist as a guide and Sadako, It and Jason Vorhees are aeons.
>>43008491The pyramids were a magnet for the dead. It had a shiny capstone, that you could see from Greece. Any sailors going past would be attracted to it. Jesus spent time in Egypt, so he learned all this. He became a magnet for the dead. A fisher of men. Shiny objects are like a fishing lure. Modern cities are like that too.
>>43011337>There's a move toward wanting to explain / incorporate Jesus and that begs the question - why do they feel that's necessary?There's always the possibility that early Christianity itself was more built on pre-Christian Gnosticism than it appears to be in its current form, and that's why the Gnostics considered him to be one of theirs. Then it would be orthodox Christianity that owes something to the Judaizers, which would make a lot more sense given that orthodoxy has a much more positive attitude to the Jewish law and the god who gave it.Two other small points I can think of in favor of this theory offhand is that John the Baptist is said to have taught Simon Magus in the Clementine Homilies, and the one surviving religion that claims to be based directly on John the Baptist, Mandaeism, is Gnostic.
>>43011337Jesus was clearly an Essene. He dressed like them, was surrounded by them, taught the same philosophy and had the same enemies (pharisees sadducees). Jesus of Nazareth, ie. The Nazarenes. The nazarenes were the northern Essene sect. You cannot get a clear picture without the qumran scrolls. The NT was so butchered that it does not mention the Essenes at all, at least directly. Confirmation was easy, since the scrolls in question were first translated from the Vatican archives, then later found in Qumran. After reading these scrolls and returning to the NT, you can see how much of an incomplete patchwork it is.
>>43011465Please tell me more of what the Qumran scrolls contain about the NT and gnosticism.
>>43011658To learn more about Jesus' true teachings as an Essene, the sevenfold peace contains an outline. I can summarize here so that you better understand. Jesus taught that to be like him, you must be in sync with the 7 angels, above and below (heavenly father, mother earth) which is symbolic of each practice and what it contains. The key is to be at one in the heart, mind, and body with these teachings. It involved a morning and evening prayer and meditation (sunrise and set), fasting one day per week, and connecting the spiritual to the physical realms. Living in harmony with all systems. This was later twisted into a Chakra system by another specific religious sect thats popular on this forum. This gives you an idea how far away the NT strayed from those teachings. They were also strict lacto-vegetarians (the land of milk and honey) which was later corrupted by Paul when he incorrectly said you can eat meat. They were specifically against sacrifices and eating animals. Paul was a usurper of the true way. https://www.essene.com/Essene%20Teachings/SevenFoldPeace.html
>>43012574This is the groundwork for the chariot of fire, or the transfiguration. It is the outline of the keys to heaven. I can tell you from my personal experiences, that when your mind, heart and body are in sync, when you speak God's language (love, joy, compassion) reality itself will begin to change around you. I wont go into all of the experiences ive had, but when this way is practiced there will be no doubt of its heavenly and earthly power. You will commune with God. These systems are created to activate the christos, the anointing oil. In today's terms, that would be our endogenous dmt system. At one point, in a moment of meditation and tears of joy (which also releases the christos) i watched reality change before my eyes. A golden road ahead of me like the sun, at the end of that road was the sun. The colors and quality of everything changed before my eyes. It was one of the most powerful experiences you could imagine in a waking state. Jesus taught us a path to self-ascension. It was a way to communicate directly with God, And how to traverse the path when your physical body dies.
With further study of the lost texts, you will realize that it teaches you everything you need to prepare the body, mind and heart. There are lessons throughout, but I can assure you that you must start with the body first. They used many herbs and practices to purify the body. I came across this accidentally at first through use of the nac protocol. When the body was purified I then wished to take it further with meditation. Then I found the qumran scrolls and realized what I was starting to do without even realizing. Purifying the body is the first essential step, and it unlocks abilities you would not normally have during meditation. The teachings by the Essenes equated an unclean body with unclean spirit. We can see by their diet choices and how they made their manna bread that they were removing "foul spirits" such as parasites, fungal infections, etc. And that these infections of the body can alter and manipulate the mind (confirmed in modern science). One of my self-discovered meditation practices of raising the light wasn't possible until my body was clean. Now you know the first steps, and have a path down the rabbithole for further understanding.
>>4300840970 to 140 CE is when the gospels were written, which means that is also when Christianity started to spread. John is a gnostic text BTW and was written in Alexandria. It's heavily influenced by greco-egyptian Alexandriaian thought of the era. Christians have been reading the gospels as a whole, with missing books and without the cultural context for centuries now. Modern Christianity is less like what the original movement was than gnostismicm was.
>>43008409>do you guys know that jesus died 33 CE.You can't signal that, we have to take your word or someonelse's word for it. So fuck you. Zero dredibility here.>that gnosticism started to exist between 70 to 140 CE.Again, you won't be able to signal that because you don't know what the fuck you are talking about. >the likehood of jesus being some sort of gnostic teacher is rather low to zero.So let me guess, what are the chances of him being God or at the same time God's son? Zero as well.
>>43008530Where to start? I despise the fact that some cocksuckers along the line decided that I shouldn't know the entirety of my Savior's teachings. Jesus is VERY real and knowing the fullness of His teachings would really be great.
>>43009304It's the gnostic angle that makes me wonder if Jesus was actually an active individual once, but Christianity at its core is nonsense
>>43016525Essene.com has the Nazarene teachings, which is the path that Yeshua (Jesus) taught. There are many resources there, gospels and historical information. I hope this helps you, brother. If you have any questions just ask.
>>43015960>So let me guess, what are the chances of him being God or at the same time God's son? Zero as well.well most of the christianty we know was made up by Paul, so yea. Jesus was just Jewish lies made up to kill Gnosticism
>>43017495Also you may find this interesting as you start out. I know the feeling when you realize you've been lied to and reading corrupted scripture. This gives a good overview of how that happened, including the paulician deception. https://essene.com/Essene%20Teachings/True%20Christianity.html
>>43008409"Gnosticism" as a term may have first been coined in 70/140 CE, but the original Christians had started to assemble the tales that formed the foundation of actual and original Christianity. YES, I know, some "gnostic writing" came later and can be consider spiritually adjacent writing. Like the way Catho-licks revere Aquinas. So some texts are simply outside knowledge, others are foundational. The early martyrs were always the "gnostics" of course. They would be knowing a better life came after their bravery. But the most recent "gnostic" twist I think is so fascinating is the revelation of the Mäṣḥafä Kidan from Ethiopia.The missing forty days of Jesus after the resurrection is finally shown to the world. And it's obvious why the Romans edited that out.
